Hi everyone,
I'm about ready to start jointing and planing, and then edge gluing several
panels for a chest of drawers/changing table that I'm building. The wood is
ash, if that makes any difference.
My question is that I only have enough clamps to probably glue up 2, maybe 3
panels at once (I have 7 total that I need to glue for this project). All
of the panels are meant to be 3/4" thick and the rough lumber is somewhere
around 7/8" to 1". Due to the large number of boards involved (most of the
stock is ~5-6" wide and I'm making panels of 22", 15" and 23" wide and 48",
49", 27" and 23" lengths) I would prefer to do all the milling for these
pieces at once to make sure that they all are exactly the same. This is
mainly a concern with the thickness planer, I think.
The only thing is, I've surfaced some ash in the past and had some minor
cupping occur, so I was thinking maybe it would be better to only surface
and glue the boards that I'll be clamping right away.
The humidity isn't too high today, but in the next few days we're supposed
to get rain. So, I'm in a bit of a conundrum.
If anyone has any tips for this issue, I'd appreciate it.
Thanks!
Mike
p.s. The "get more clamps" tip is one I already have thought of, but can't
seem to find the $$ to make happen right now.
Not sure how wide a planer you have but I like to do the initial glue
up at slightly over the finished thickness and then run them all
through to final dimension. When gluing up widths wider then the
capacity of the planer, I glue up two sections sligtly over half the
final width and after final thicknessing biscuit the two together for
the final width panel. That usually results in only minor sanding
required. Titebond and clamps just long enough for the glue to skim
over which like Bill said, isn't very long on a warm day.
Goos Luck
Lenny
On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 12:29:30 -0700, "Bill Pounds"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Mike, this doesn't sound like a problem to me, unless you are in the camp
>that thinks they have to keep their panels in the clamps all day to get a
>good joint. I do not believe that at all, but I'll probably get flamed for
>it.
>
>I leave panels in the clamps for 30 minutes if I'm working at an easy pace,
>20 minutes if I want to make hay while the sun shines. That has never been
>a problem for me. I generally use Elmers, but I know others who use
>Titebond and do the same clamp times.
>
>So, if I were you, I would prep all my stock, clamp two panels at a time for
>30 minutes, and be done in 2 hours. Handle the panels with just a little
>bit of care when you unclamp them and you'll be just fine.
Also, you might joint and plane to about 1/8" over final thickness, then
sticker and let it adjust for a couple of days. Then as close to glue up as
possible, joint and plane again to final thickness. This helps reduce
warping.
I too am in the habit of gluing up panels or partial panels a little thicker
than final thickness and only as wide as my planer will take. I then run
the panels through the planer to final thickness and then glue up any
partial panels for any wider panels I need. I also leave about 3" extra on
either end for snipe.
Preston
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> When you plane the boards, be sure to take an equal amount from both sides
> to help prevent warping or cupping. I generally leave my boards in the
> clamps for 1 hour and make room for the next set to be glued. Usually by
> the time I have used my last set of clamps it is time to start taking the
> first glue up out of the clamps.
>
>
>
On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:39:09 GMT, "Mike in Mystic"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Thanks for all the tips and suggestions. I think the idea of gluing up just
>shy of the capacity of my planer makes sense. I ended up gluing up 2 of the
>large panels yesterday and had to leave it at that due to other obligations.
>I'm annoyed, because one of them seems to have developed a small cup almost
>right out of the clamps. Aaarghh! I really get confused by this stuff. I
>had to use 5 boards to make the panels (each was the same dimension). All
>of the individual boards were flat and square. So, why would one of the
>glued panels cup and not the other? I did the alternating growth rings
>thing. Just leaves me scratching my head.
>
>Mike
Are you running the edges thru a jointer, Mike?
Have a nice week...
Trent
Follow Joan Rivers' example --- get pre-embalmed!
Mike in Mystic wrote:
>
> I'm annoyed, because one of them seems to have developed a small cup almost
> right out of the clamps. Aaarghh! I really get confused by this stuff. I
> had to use 5 boards to make the panels (each was the same dimension). All
> of the individual boards were flat and square. So, why would one of the
> glued panels cup and not the other? I did the alternating growth rings
> thing. Just leaves me scratching my head.
If you leave a panel on the workbench, it can cup because of unequal
moisture exchange with shop air. This is reversible, but can be avoided
by stickering the panel.
Wolfgang
Well, I used bessey k-bodies for the entire set up (5 total for each panel),
which should minimize this, right? I made sure to tighten the clamps slowly
and evenly, with 3 on the bottom and then adding two more on top,
alternating positions. Still, I see what you mean, but I don't anticipate
getting any more space to accomodate a nice glue-up table, which is probably
what I need. *Most* of the time I am pretty successful at these things, but
there are times like this when I'm not. I guess I'm still going through the
learning curve and haven't entirely figured out where my
technique/procedures are not being done just right so that I can avoid these
problems.
Mike
"George" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Uneven clamping pressure can cup a glueup, too. You want the "draw" right
> through the center of the glueup. Get high or low, and you can induce
cup.
> One of the best arguments for a big, flat clamping area rather than some
ad
> hoc"hang the freshly clamped end over this" while working on the next....
>
> "Mike in Mystic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:hpPSa.11316$%[email protected]...
> > Thanks for all the tips and suggestions. I think the idea of gluing up
> just
> > shy of the capacity of my planer makes sense. I ended up gluing up 2 of
> the
> > large panels yesterday and had to leave it at that due to other
> obligations.
> > I'm annoyed, because one of them seems to have developed a small cup
> almost
> > right out of the clamps.
>
>
>
"Mike in Mystic" writes:
>Well, I used bessey k-bodies for the entire set up (5 total for each
panel),
>which should minimize this, right? I made sure to tighten the clamps
slowly
>and evenly, with 3 on the bottom and then adding two more on top,
>alternating positions. Still, I see what you mean, but I don't anticipate
>getting any more space to accomodate a nice glue-up table, which is
probably
>what I need.
I choose to cut to the chase.
Joint the edges of the boards, leave the flats rough, glue up as req'd.
Throw the rough blank in the back of the car/truck, whatever, and head for
the nearest commercial job shop sanding facility.
1/2 hour and $20-$30, you have a flat sanded top.
Most shops are limited to 48" wide tops.
HTH
--
Lew
S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland)
Visit: <http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett> for Pictures
That's a very good suggestion, thanks Lenny.
Mike
"Lenny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> FWIW
> One thing I like to do when jointing pieces for edge gluing is mark
> the face that is against the fence with an x. Then when gluing up I
> alternate the pieces so the edge with the x up is going against the
> edge with the x down. This adjust for any minor discrepancy of the
> fence being a perfect 90 degrees (the old equal and opposite angles
> thing from Geometry class). Of course it takes a little planning if
> your concerned with alternating the annual rings but a few marks as
> you match up the grain etc. should keep everything in order.
>
> Lenny
>
> On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:53:18 GMT, "Mike in Mystic"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Yes, of course I am. I flattened the faces and one edge on the jointer,
> >thicknessed the planks at the planer and then squared the other edge at
the
> >table saw. Nothing mysterious about that. But, obviously, there is
> >something I'm not recognizing in certain glue-ups which is leading to the
> >cupping problem. It isn't chronic or anything, but in certain discrete
> >cases it is a real pain.
> <snip>
Thanks for all the tips and suggestions. I think the idea of gluing up just
shy of the capacity of my planer makes sense. I ended up gluing up 2 of the
large panels yesterday and had to leave it at that due to other obligations.
I'm annoyed, because one of them seems to have developed a small cup almost
right out of the clamps. Aaarghh! I really get confused by this stuff. I
had to use 5 boards to make the panels (each was the same dimension). All
of the individual boards were flat and square. So, why would one of the
glued panels cup and not the other? I did the alternating growth rings
thing. Just leaves me scratching my head.
Mike
"Mike in Mystic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm about ready to start jointing and planing, and then edge gluing
several
> panels for a chest of drawers/changing table that I'm building. The wood
is
> ash, if that makes any difference.
>
> My question is that I only have enough clamps to probably glue up 2, maybe
3
> panels at once (I have 7 total that I need to glue for this project). All
> of the panels are meant to be 3/4" thick and the rough lumber is somewhere
> around 7/8" to 1". Due to the large number of boards involved (most of
the
> stock is ~5-6" wide and I'm making panels of 22", 15" and 23" wide and
48",
> 49", 27" and 23" lengths) I would prefer to do all the milling for these
> pieces at once to make sure that they all are exactly the same. This is
> mainly a concern with the thickness planer, I think.
>
> The only thing is, I've surfaced some ash in the past and had some minor
> cupping occur, so I was thinking maybe it would be better to only surface
> and glue the boards that I'll be clamping right away.
>
> The humidity isn't too high today, but in the next few days we're supposed
> to get rain. So, I'm in a bit of a conundrum.
>
> If anyone has any tips for this issue, I'd appreciate it.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Mike
>
> p.s. The "get more clamps" tip is one I already have thought of, but
can't
> seem to find the $$ to make happen right now.
>
>
>
Uneven clamping pressure can cup a glueup, too. You want the "draw" right
through the center of the glueup. Get high or low, and you can induce cup.
One of the best arguments for a big, flat clamping area rather than some ad
hoc"hang the freshly clamped end over this" while working on the next....
"Mike in Mystic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:hpPSa.11316$%[email protected]...
> Thanks for all the tips and suggestions. I think the idea of gluing up
just
> shy of the capacity of my planer makes sense. I ended up gluing up 2 of
the
> large panels yesterday and had to leave it at that due to other
obligations.
> I'm annoyed, because one of them seems to have developed a small cup
almost
> right out of the clamps.
FWIW
One thing I like to do when jointing pieces for edge gluing is mark
the face that is against the fence with an x. Then when gluing up I
alternate the pieces so the edge with the x up is going against the
edge with the x down. This adjust for any minor discrepancy of the
fence being a perfect 90 degrees (the old equal and opposite angles
thing from Geometry class). Of course it takes a little planning if
your concerned with alternating the annual rings but a few marks as
you match up the grain etc. should keep everything in order.
Lenny
On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:53:18 GMT, "Mike in Mystic"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Yes, of course I am. I flattened the faces and one edge on the jointer,
>thicknessed the planks at the planer and then squared the other edge at the
>table saw. Nothing mysterious about that. But, obviously, there is
>something I'm not recognizing in certain glue-ups which is leading to the
>cupping problem. It isn't chronic or anything, but in certain discrete
>cases it is a real pain.
<snip>
On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:19:15 GMT, "Mike in Mystic"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Well, I used bessey k-bodies for the entire set up (5 total for each panel),
>which should minimize this, right? I made sure to tighten the clamps slowly
>and evenly, with 3 on the bottom and then adding two more on top,
>alternating positions. Still, I see what you mean, but I don't anticipate
>getting any more space to accomodate a nice glue-up table, which is probably
>what I need. *Most* of the time I am pretty successful at these things, but
>there are times like this when I'm not. I guess I'm still going through the
>learning curve and haven't entirely figured out where my
>technique/procedures are not being done just right so that I can avoid these
>problems.
>
>Mike
Give some thought to making a glue-up jig, Mike...then store it away
when not being used.
Have a nice week...
Trent
Follow Joan Rivers' example --- get pre-embalmed!
What he said. If you're really worried, stack all the unclamped pieces
together and hold them in a tight bundle with cauls and C clamps.
I think the warning about gluing fresh really means don't let it go for
weeks and let the wood oxidize for best adhesion.
"Bill Pounds" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> So, if I were you, I would prep all my stock, clamp two panels at a time
for
> 30 minutes, and be done in 2 hours. Handle the panels with just a little
> bit of care when you unclamp them and you'll be just fine.
>
Yes, of course I am. I flattened the faces and one edge on the jointer,
thicknessed the planks at the planer and then squared the other edge at the
table saw. Nothing mysterious about that. But, obviously, there is
something I'm not recognizing in certain glue-ups which is leading to the
cupping problem. It isn't chronic or anything, but in certain discrete
cases it is a real pain.
"Trent©" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:39:09 GMT, "Mike in Mystic"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Thanks for all the tips and suggestions. I think the idea of gluing up
just
> >shy of the capacity of my planer makes sense. I ended up gluing up 2 of
the
> >large panels yesterday and had to leave it at that due to other
obligations.
> >I'm annoyed, because one of them seems to have developed a small cup
almost
> >right out of the clamps. Aaarghh! I really get confused by this stuff.
I
> >had to use 5 boards to make the panels (each was the same dimension).
All
> >of the individual boards were flat and square. So, why would one of the
> >glued panels cup and not the other? I did the alternating growth rings
> >thing. Just leaves me scratching my head.
> >
> >Mike
>
> Are you running the edges thru a jointer, Mike?
>
>
> Have a nice week...
>
> Trent
>
> Follow Joan Rivers' example --- get pre-embalmed!