JUST ONCE.....

On 1/21/2012 2:25 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 1/21/2012 9:59 AM, Steve Barker wrote:
>> On 1/21/2012 8:20 AM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 1/20/2012 6:20 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
>>>> On 1/20/2012 6:13 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>>>>> On Jan 20, 2:54 pm, Steve Barker<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> Just once i'd like to see a demonstration of that damn hot dog being
>>>>>> run
>>>>>> into that $aw $top blade at the same rate that your finger or hand
>>>>>> might
>>>>>> if you were to slip. I'll bet it'll still cause significant damage.
>>>>>> Those things are a joke.
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Steve Barker
>>>>>> remove the "not" from my address to email
>>>>>
>>>>> Sounds like you are looking to pick a fight.
>>>>>
>>>>> On super slow-mo cameras the blade drops below the table before the
>>>>> second tooth has time to rotate into position to hit the dog. I would
>>>>> say at worst you would get a small gash. No way enough rotation to get
>>>>> to bone even if fell into it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> LMAO! yeah they EASE that hot dog in so slow the damn smell would get
>>>> there first. Not trying to pick a fight. I could care less. I just hate
>>>> to see more government control over stupidity.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I hate to say it but it will be people with your mentality that will be
>>> the reason the government will control it. You people need this kind of
>>> government protection.
>>>
>>
>> hardly
>>
>
> Yeah I think so.

well i guess they can try. I've got a brand new NON $aw $top saw that
will more than outlast me. I'll never have to use one. I may even buy
up some other good saws that can be sold after nothing but the junkassed
$$ is all that's available.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 1/20/2012 5:54 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
> Just once i'd like to see a demonstration of that damn hot dog being run
> into that $aw $top blade at the same rate that your finger or hand might
> if you were to slip. I'll bet it'll still cause significant damage.
> Those things are a joke.

Saw the hot dog live demo once. It worked as advertised and barely broke
the skin of the dog. Amazing demo and when that blade stopped, even
though I was expecting some noise it still scared the crap right out of me.

--
Digger
Bob O'Dell

On Jan 20, 5:54=A0pm, Steve Barker <[email protected]> wrote:
> Just once i'd like to see a demonstration of that damn hot dog being run
> into that $aw $top blade at the same rate that your finger or hand might
> if you were to slip. =A0I'll bet it'll still cause significant damage.
> Those things are a joke.

If memory serves, when they tested this on Ask This Old House the hot
dog was tossed at the blade.

On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 23:14:01 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Jack wrote:
>
>>
>> On a woodworking group it's hard to imagine a political election
>> being a better target than forced saw stop ownership.
>>
>> I think in addition to forced ownership of saw stop crap, the hand
>> wringers should be forced to buy/use power feeders. Much cheaper than
>> buying a new hand, right?
>>
>
>Oh geezus - this is getting just plain stupid! Nobody - repeat - nobody is
>forcing saw stop ownership. If you don't like the saw, the owner of the
>company, or the color of the saw - don't buy the damned thing. Nothing is
>forcing you to own it. Good Lord - this is just stupid!

...not that they aren't trying, mind you.

Yeah and the $100K repair bill for the amputated fingers and physio,
afterward, just comes from the public health care system and that is
all paid for by the Vietnamese government , right?

The whole thing i public driven after you get a public health care
system.

----------

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

Ha - thought you'd catch me with that one, didn't ya? Clever, but you
didn't slip one by me that time Jack. The answer is of course the
government should let them risk mangleation - after all that would be a
government decision, and we all know that the government knows best and
does
what's best for all of us... right?

--------------
> Do you think anyone buying a (new) router table or shaper
> should also have to buy a power feeder, or should the gov't let them
> risk mangleation at the expense of the rest of us paying for their
> socialized medicine to repair the inevitable damage?

Bill wrote:
> On 1/23/2012 12:02 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>
>> $100 table saws? And you find those exactly where on the Sears web
>> site? Just what are you really asking?
>
> I didn't know whether retailers were allowed to sell saws that are Not
> UL approved. That's what I was really asking.

Of course not. Google could have been your friend.

>
>
> Also, I was surprised to see $100 TSs that had riving knifes... Here
> is one.

Understandable - every one of us are surprised every day by things we did
not know of, or were contrary to what we thought we knew.


>
> http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00928461000P?prdNo=2&blockNo=2&blockType=G2
>
> I am Not shopping for one of these however!

Good for you Bill - wise decision.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Just Wondering wrote:
> On 1/20/2012 3:54 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
>> Just once i'd like to see a demonstration of that damn hot dog being
>> run into that $aw $top blade at the same rate that your finger or
>> hand might if you were to slip.
>
> Like this?
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiF8a5gacKs

that guy should never be allowed to demo any product again - for the rest of
his life. He flat out sucks. That said - he did move the hot dog through
the blade at as fast a rate as anyone here could expect to see. But... he
sucked as a demo dolly...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 19:20:29 -0600, Steve Barker
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On 1/30/2012 6:47 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
>> On 1/20/2012 3:54 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
>>> Just once i'd like to see a demonstration of that damn hot dog being run
>>> into that $aw $top blade at the same rate that your finger or hand might
>>> if you were to slip.
>>
>> Best Sawstop demo yet:
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t036YiYdI0
>
>
>there was a table saw in that video??

I love the lining on that modified ToolKing shirt, don't you?
Maybe that lovely lining can learn to read naturally soon.
She's a cutie, fer sher.

--
Life is like one big Mardi Gras. But instead of showing your boobs,
show people your brain, and if they like what they see, you'll have
more beads than you know what to do with.
-- Ellen DeGeneres, Tulane Commencement Speech, 2009

Steve Barker wrote:

>
>
> there was a table saw in that video??

Nope - I didn't see no damned table saw.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 1/22/2012 12:11 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
> Steve Barker<[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>>
>> damn. $800 in false trips. More than my saw cost new. Dandy product
>> you got there. what a joke!
>>
>
> False trips are an annoyance, but it's possible that the cost of the saw
> and replacement cartridges and blades might be saved by one real trip. You
> can be extremely careful in the shop (and should be) but one moment of
> stupidity or one action messed up could result in permanent injury.
>
> I'm usually in the extremely careful camp, but made one mistake and
> fortunately the push block paid for it.
>
> Puckdropper

and THAT is why we use push sticks/blocks.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 1/22/2012 2:24 AM, Dave wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 00:05:48 -0600, Steve Barker
>> i could afford 10 of them tomorrow and pay cash. You don't seem to
>> understand. I DON"T WANT ONE!! And i don't want them forced on other
>> people who know how to use a saw properly.
>
> Your arrogance in the face of possible injury is absolutely stunning.
> *You* are exactly the time of person the SawStop if designed to
> protect. It's patently obvious that if you accidentally cut a finger
> off, you'd be the first to go crying to a lawyer.

you obviously don't know me. I am not the sue happy type. I believe in
people being accountable for their own actions. And that includes
keeping your digits out of the saw.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

Steve Barker <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> damn. $800 in false trips. More than my saw cost new. Dandy product
> you got there. what a joke!
>

False trips are an annoyance, but it's possible that the cost of the saw
and replacement cartridges and blades might be saved by one real trip. You
can be extremely careful in the shop (and should be) but one moment of
stupidity or one action messed up could result in permanent injury.

I'm usually in the extremely careful camp, but made one mistake and
fortunately the push block paid for it.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

RE: Subject

First posted by a progeny of the Dumb Fuck family, Donald and Dory.

Lew

On 1/22/2012 7:26 PM, Morgans wrote:
> Much better, in my opinion, to train them to be extremely careful and
> to use the already mandated and supplied safety devices. - and to
> SUPPLY the devices. (like push sticks, finger boards, splitters and
> guards)
>
> Good points.
>
> If I was a high school shop teacher (and I am) and I had a saw stop, I
> would tell the guys that they did not work as good as it shows on
> you-tube and even worse, that they sometimes did not work at all. That
> way, they could not depend on the saw stopping to keep them safe, and
> they would have to work on developing safe work habits.
>
Yeah, and your students would promptly do some internet research, find
out were lying, and call you out on your BS. Your credibility would be
shot, and then how effective a teacher would you be?

On 1/23/2012 5:48 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> HeyBub wrote:
>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ...not that they aren't trying, mind you.
>>>
>>> Really - and just how would they even attempt to accomplish such a
>>> feat? Gast is an ass but he is not stupid.
>>
>> Have you been living in a cave? The SawStop folks have persuaded the
>> Consumer Product Safety Commission to propose a federal regulation
>> mandating SawStop (or equivalent) on table saws.
>>
>> It's right there in the Federal Register. You really should keep up.
>
> I have - have you? There is nothing in that proposal that forces you or I
> to go out and buy a SawStop and melt down our existing table saws.
>
The problem is, if the regulation was put into effect, every TS
manufacturer would have to buy technology from the SawStop company. A
TS that retails for $600 today would cost $1200 tomorrow. Sure, you
could disable the SS, but if you wanted to buy a TS at all, you'd have
to pay twice as much for the saw as as you would in a free market.

"Josepi" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> I agree with you completely.
>
> Take the weiner and whip it at the side of blade from the side like
> you do with your own hand, in a split second, after seeing wood jump
> and a suddenly loud bang near the blade that makes want to not be
> there suddenly. I mean, give it a rest. How many people slowly push
> there finger into the front edge of the blade? Maybe some have
> handicapped parking out the front of their shop too??
>
>

Ok, now here's how we'll solve this once and for all: Get the
Mythbusters to test it.

I'm only half kidding. The sword swinging rig would be ideal to swing a
hot dog into the blade at super human speed. They can track how fast the
hot dog goes, put a high speed camera on the cartridge (if it can be done
without wrecking the thing) and test if it works.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On 1/24/2012 11:16 AM, Jack wrote:
>
> Perhaps the Gov't should mandate anyone buying/using a saw past the age
> of 60 or 65 MUST buy a SS.
>
Is there any statistical evidence that woodworkers over 60 are more
likely to injure themselves on power tools than those under 60?

On 1/20/2012 3:54 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
> Just once i'd like to see a demonstration of that damn hot dog being run
> into that $aw $top blade at the same rate that your finger or hand might
> if you were to slip.

Best Sawstop demo yet:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t036YiYdI0

On 1/20/2012 3:54 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
> Just once i'd like to see a demonstration of that damn hot dog being run
> into that $aw $top blade at the same rate that your finger or hand might
> if you were to slip.

Like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiF8a5gacKs

On 1/31/2012 7:04 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 19:20:29 -0600, Steve Barker
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 1/30/2012 6:47 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
>>> On 1/20/2012 3:54 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
>>>> Just once i'd like to see a demonstration of that damn hot dog being run
>>>> into that $aw $top blade at the same rate that your finger or hand might
>>>> if you were to slip.
>>>
>>> Best Sawstop demo yet:
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t036YiYdI0
>>
>>
>> there was a table saw in that video??
>
> I love the lining on that modified ToolKing shirt, don't you?

Even a SawStop can't protect you from distractions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOsmhRkLw_4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz2dcPrJpH4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbVKS6NX9t8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aL7xAqwmvVE&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PLF61196210A7135AE

On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 21:19:47 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Just Wondering wrote:
>> On 1/20/2012 3:54 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
>>> Just once i'd like to see a demonstration of that damn hot dog being
>>> run into that $aw $top blade at the same rate that your finger or
>>> hand might if you were to slip.
>>
>> Like this?
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiF8a5gacKs
>
>that guy should never be allowed to demo any product again - for the rest of
>his life. He flat out sucks. That said - he did move the hot dog through
>the blade at as fast a rate as anyone here could expect to see. But... he
>sucked as a demo dolly...

Bbbbbbut, he's from Chicago, home of Obama, Daley, other Democrat
Mafia. Are YOU gonna tell him?

--
Life is like one big Mardi Gras. But instead of showing your boobs,
show people your brain, and if they like what they see, you'll have
more beads than you know what to do with.
-- Ellen DeGeneres, Tulane Commencement Speech, 2009

Well said!

-------
"Swingman" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

As an employer, I'd take your $72k for 8 incidents any day over a jury
award of $1.5 million for each incident ... $12,000,000, or over 1300
times the price.

:)

Jack wrote:

>
> On a woodworking group it's hard to imagine a political election
> being a better target than forced saw stop ownership.
>
> I think in addition to forced ownership of saw stop crap, the hand
> wringers should be forced to buy/use power feeders. Much cheaper than
> buying a new hand, right?
>

Oh geezus - this is getting just plain stupid! Nobody - repeat - nobody is
forcing saw stop ownership. If you don't like the saw, the owner of the
company, or the color of the saw - don't buy the damned thing. Nothing is
forcing you to own it. Good Lord - this is just stupid!

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Bill wrote:
> On 1/23/2012 11:41 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Bill wrote:
>>> On 1/23/2012 10:49 AM, Dave wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 06:20:51 -0600,
>>>> "HeyBub"<[email protected]>
>>>>> Have you been living in a cave? The SawStop folks have persuaded
>>>>> the Consumer Product Safety Commission to propose a federal
>>>>> regulation mandating SawStop (or equivalent) on table saws.
>>>>
>>>> What if anything, does that proposed federal regulation say about
>>>> previously owned table saws? Are they grandfathered in as being
>>>> acceptable? Do we all need to buy our preferred choice of table saw
>>>> before that proposed regulation comes into effect?
>>>
>>>
>>> I know riving knifes are now required to be **UL Compliant**.
>>> I do not know the significance of this compliancy (perhaps someone
>>> can address this), but it's not hard for me to imagine what the next
>>> requirement of UL Coompliancy could be for table saws.
>
> Are you saying that Sears, and others who sell $100 TSs, are only
> permitted to sell table saws with riving knifes? (I don't know the
> answer to this, as I mentioned above).
>

$100 table saws? And you find those exactly where on the Sears web site?
Just what are you really asking?


>
>>
>> UL compliance only pertains to newly purchased items. It has
>> nothing to do with existing products. As for new compliancy
>> requirments - that's for new stuff. When was the last time the UL
>> Police showed up at your house to inspect and demand an update to
>> your 20 year old toaster or steam iron?

On 1/23/2012 5:03 PM, Jack wrote:
> On 1/21/2012 6:25 PM, Swingman wrote:
>
>>> Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade.
>>
>> You guys are wise. IMO, only a fool, with a single employee who's job
>> description included operating a table saw, would not have a SawStop
>> today.
>>
>> Cheap at fifty times the price ...
>
> Let's see, one guy had 7 false one's in a couple of years and one grill
> that nicked a fing-ee that likely happened because of carelessness
> brought on by lack of respect enabled by the SS.
>
> $100 for a good blade, $80 for the replacement mechanism, times 8, times
> 50... $72,000.
>
> I think it would be close to "not cheap" at fifty times the price, at
> least I know no one that would own or use a tsaw with those sort of
> numbers mandated.
>
> Also, a power feeder for the hand ringers would keep them safe at least
> on rip cuts, and it can be adapted to old saws, shapers, router tables
> and all sorts of dangerous equipment. Personally, I think old folks,
> like me, should be banned from the dangerous environment of a wood shop.
> I think it's starting to get a bit dangerous when I enter my shop. I
> guess I hafta look at it like mountain climbers look at mountains...
>
> Don't need no steenking saw stops...
>
> Jack

Now I will have to say to trip the mechanism that many times you also
will have factor in positive trips that actually saved a finger or hand.

Lets say one time in 50, at Approximately $25,000~$35,000 per incident
to cover emergency surgery and reconstruction and rehabilitation and
perhaps a prosthetic and lost wages, TIMES 8 equals $200,000~$280,000,

Yes cheap at 50 times the price.

On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 17:33:30 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>Now I will have to say to trip the mechanism that many times you also
>will have factor in positive trips that actually saved a finger or hand.
>
>Lets say one time in 50, at Approximately $25,000~$35,000 per incident
>to cover emergency surgery and reconstruction and rehabilitation and
>perhaps a prosthetic and lost wages, TIMES 8 equals $200,000~$280,000,
>
>Yes cheap at 50 times the price.

Ultimately, there's those injuries that can't be surgically repaired
which means permanent disfigurement and injury which may cause
permanent loss of or change of employment.

Then, there's the cost of the lawsuits and likelihood of large cash
pay outs.

Finally, there's all the pain and anguish such an injury will cause.
Ultimately, there really isn't any set amount of money you can apply
to that.

Your 'cheap at 50 times the price' is just a pittance of the real
total cost.

"Steve Barker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 1/20/2012 6:13 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>> On Jan 20, 2:54 pm, Steve Barker<[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Just once i'd like to see a demonstration of that damn hot dog being run
>>> into that $aw $top blade at the same rate that your finger or hand might
>>> if you were to slip. I'll bet it'll still cause significant damage.
>>> Those things are a joke.
>>> --
>>> Steve Barker
>>> remove the "not" from my address to email
>>
>> Sounds like you are looking to pick a fight.
>>
>> On super slow-mo cameras the blade drops below the table before the
>> second tooth has time to rotate into position to hit the dog. I would
>> say at worst you would get a small gash. No way enough rotation to get
>> to bone even if fell into it.
>
>
> LMAO! yeah they EASE that hot dog in so slow the damn smell would get
> there first. Not trying to pick a fight. I could care less. I just hate
> to see more government control over stupidity.
>
>
> --
> Steve Barker
> remove the "not" from my address to email

Steve Barker,
The video on SawStop's web site shows the plywood moving about 6" in 3/4 of
a second. That's a feed rate of about 8" per second. How fast do you feed
material into your table saw?
Kerry

On 1/23/2012 5:03 PM, Jack wrote:
> On 1/21/2012 6:25 PM, Swingman wrote:
>
>>> Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade.
>>
>> You guys are wise. IMO, only a fool, with a single employee who's job
>> description included operating a table saw, would not have a SawStop
>> today.
>>
>> Cheap at fifty times the price ...
>
> Let's see, one guy had 7 false one's in a couple of years and one grill
> that nicked a fing-ee that likely happened because of carelessness
> brought on by lack of respect enabled by the SS.
>
> $100 for a good blade, $80 for the replacement mechanism, times 8, times
> 50... $72,000.
>
> I think it would be close to "not cheap" at fifty times the price, at
> least I know no one that would own or use a tsaw with those sort of
> numbers mandated.

As an employer, I'd take your $72k for 8 incidents any day over a jury
award of $1.5 million for each incident ... $12,000,000, or over 1300
times the price.

:)

-
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 08:17:08 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 1/24/2012 7:48 AM, Han wrote:
>> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> On 1/23/2012 5:49 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>>> On 1/23/2012 5:03 PM, Jack wrote:
>>>>> On 1/21/2012 6:25 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You guys are wise. IMO, only a fool, with a single employee who's
>>>>>> job description included operating a table saw, would not have a
>>>>>> SawStop today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheap at fifty times the price ...
>>>>>
>>>>> Let's see, one guy had 7 false one's in a couple of years and one
>>>>> grill that nicked a fing-ee that likely happened because of
>>>>> carelessness brought on by lack of respect enabled by the SS.
>>>>>
>>>>> $100 for a good blade, $80 for the replacement mechanism, times 8,
>>>>> times 50... $72,000.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think it would be close to "not cheap" at fifty times the price,
>>>>> at least I know no one that would own or use a tsaw with those sort
>>>>> of numbers mandated.
>>>>
>>>> As an employer, I'd take your $72k for 8 incidents any day over a
>>>> jury award of $1.5 million for each incident ... $12,000,000, or over
>>>> 1300 times the price.
>>>>
>>>> :)
>>>
>>> Ryobi just learned that lesson.
>>
>> You mean they aren't appealing that decision? That is a crime against
>> humanity, and an undeserved plum for Gass.
>>
>Regardless of the eventual outcome, what has it cost to for defense?

Win or lose, it -will- raise the price of tools from Ryobi in the
future. The judge and jury on that one ought to be horsewhipped.
If anything, the contractor and Osorio were equally to blame, not the
sawmaker. I hope the appeal reverses it completely.
PISSES ME OFF, IT DOES!

--
The most powerful factors in the world are clear
ideas in the minds of energetic men of good will.
-- J. Arthur Thomson

On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 13:16:36 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 1/24/2012 12:16 PM, Han wrote:
>> Leon wrote
>
>>> Jack, you sound exactly like all the people that eventually did have
>>> an accident. Almost verbatim your words came out of their mouths.
>>> The longer you go with out having an accident the closer you are to
>>> having one.
>>
>> Not true. If the chances of anyone having an accident are X, then having
>> had no accidents doesn't increase your chances. That's elementary in
>> statistics.
>
>People ain't dice though. There are two good reasons the chances of an
>accident increase over time. One is complacency. Get too nonchalant
>and whack, one less fing-ee. The other is age. The longer you go w/o
>accident, the older ya get. The older ya get, the more useless ya get
>and one day, whack, another fing-ee bites the dust....
>
>Perhaps the Gov't should mandate anyone buying/using a saw past the age
>of 60 or 65 MUST buy a SS.
>
>Jack
>You know you are getting old when everything either dries up or leaks.
Most guys I know missing a digit lost it while they were "young and
invincible", before they had accumulated enough experience to work
safely. And most lost it to a skill-saw, not a table saw.
I know of more hide lost to jointer-planers and belt sanders and
angle grinders than to table saws by a factor of 10 or more.

And the angle grinders bite even when the shroud is installed
properly.

Larry Blanchard wrote:

>
> Forty years with no table saw injuries, then two in a year. None
> since, but I've developed a better understanding of my fallibility
> :-).

As we all do Larry. I remember a time (probably 20 years ago...) when I was
cutting through a battery cable terminal on my farm tractor. Brand new
blade in my hacksaw, and theoretically, being quite careful. But it was
cold outside, and I was getting firewood up, and time was a factor. To make
a long story short, something slipped and I ended up with a full stroke of
that hacksaw, right into my left index finger. Right to the bone. Young
and stupid as I was, I wrapped it in a napkin and duck tape, and went back
to work. Sure enough - it healed up just fine enough over a couple of
weeks, but the cold still really effects that finger to this day.

So - maybe even proper medical treatment would have not resulted in any
different reaction to the cold today, but I can tell you this - the memory
of that day is pretty real to me today, and it does impose itself on me
every time I use a tool such as my table saw, that is capable of like
injuries. It sure as hell imposes itself on me every time I grab a
hacksaw...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

I agree with you completely.

Take the weiner and whip it at the side of blade from the side like you do
with your own hand, in a split second, after seeing wood jump and a suddenly
loud bang near the blade that makes want to not be there suddenly. I mean,
give it a rest. How many people slowly push there finger into the front edge
of the blade? Maybe some have handicapped parking out the front of their
shop too??


------------
"Steve Barker" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
yeah i saw that one also. he eased it in slower than the hot dog.

-------------
On 1/20/2012 7:41 PM, tiredofspam wrote:
Well, I guess you missed the challenge where Gass stuck his own finger
in. No blood...
But you as a non believer won't believe. No use trying to make you
believe. Not worth the effort.

On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 10:31:52 -0500, "m II" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Seems to me Joseppi was right!
>
>You are ignorant of how legal cases work. When you go to a lawyer you
>are muzzled or you don't get no money and your lawyer walks away from
>you.

You just love playing the ass don't you? Sure there will be a muzzle
order in effect. But, people talk. News reporters can be just as
determined as the most vile paparazzi. Are you actually stupid enough
to think that kind of information would stay unrevealed?

Sorry my mistake. From day one, you've demonstrated your ignorance and
stupidity here with most every message you've posted.

On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 13:52:55 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 1/24/2012 12:42 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/24/2012 11:16 AM, Han wrote:
>>> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>
>>>>> Well I don't have one, nor a blade guard, nor a rive, and after 50
>>>>> years of doing this, never nicked one fing-ee. Nor did either of my
>>>>> brothers, nor did my dad. At my age, I would think owning one might
>>>>> be a good idea, but, I don't need no steenking gov't dick head
>>>>> mandating I buy one with a every new saw purchase.
>
>> Ummmm do you really believe that some one can do wood working for 50
>> years and and "never nick one finger?
>> I believer that "x" is actually greater than zero.
>
>I, nor did the folks I mentioned, ever nick a finger on a table saw, or
>any power saw for that matter. You can believe it or not, makes no
>never mind to me. Never got nicked on my shaper, jointer, planer, band
>saw, jig saw, routers, or drill press either. I did jab my elbow into
>the live center (and drill) in my lathe a number of times. I keep doing
>it too, and it always pisses me off.
>
>Oh, I did cut my finger cleaning grease off my planer blades when
>delivered new, packed in grease, but it wasn't running, or being used,
>it was being installed. I also cut my finger once chopping up a pepper
>for an omelet, but we're talking table saws and the like right?
>
>> Lets be real here.
>
>Always.
>
>On that note (being real), no one in this thread was talking about every
>man woman and child being forced to buy a table saw, and, *I* was not
>talking about never being nicked in my life, ever, from _anything_. I
>was specifically talking about the subject, table saws and more
>specifically where a SS would have been needed. Your insinuations to
>the otherwise are not *real*, other than /really/ disingenuous.
>
>Jack
>A wink is as good as a nod to a blind horse
Every saw nick I've ever gotten was when I was a kid using a coping
saw. There's a few knuckles that still bear the evidence over 45 years
later. (I think it's been 50 years since the last bout with the coping
saw blade at about age 9.

They cover the long term costs of the four operations in the videos. Whether
exaggerated or not they are pretty high.

-------

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 08:26:04 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 1/22/2012 12:11 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
>How much does it cost to reattach a finger or hand?

Evidently, most tablesaur accidents are unrecoverable. The saw
shatters the bones too badly in too many cases. Just call 'em Stubby.

On 1/22/2012 12:05 AM, Steve Barker wrote:
> On 1/21/2012 11:27 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/21/2012 9:45 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
>>> On 1/21/2012 4:59 PM, DanG wrote:
>>>> On 1/20/2012 8:09 PM, Digger wrote:
>>>>> On 1/20/2012 5:54 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
>>>>>> Just once i'd like to see a demonstration of that damn hot dog being
>>>>>> run
>>>>>> into that $aw $top blade at the same rate that your finger or hand
>>>>>> might
>>>>>> if you were to slip. I'll bet it'll still cause significant damage.
>>>>>> Those things are a joke.
>>>>>
>>>>> Saw the hot dog live demo once. It worked as advertised and barely
>>>>> broke
>>>>> the skin of the dog. Amazing demo and when that blade stopped, even
>>>>> though I was expecting some noise it still scared the crap right out
>>>>> of me.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You ought be in the same room or near the saw when it happens when you
>>>> WEREN'T expecting it.
>>>>
>>>> We've set ours off about 8 times in several years. Usually because of
>>>> failure to note embedded metal, wet wood, aluminized vapor backer, etc.
>>>> Only once when a man was pushing it - he thought he had completed a cut
>>>> he was pushing along the fence (probably way too close and should have
>>>> been using a push stick) and set it off with no visible cut, looked
>>>> more
>>>> like a splinter.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade.
>>>>
>>>
>>> damn. $800 in false trips. More than my saw cost new. Dandy product you
>>> got there. what a joke!
>>>
>>
>> Don't knock what you can not afford.
>
> i could afford 10 of them tomorrow and pay cash. You don't seem to
> understand. I DON"T WANT ONE!! And i don't want them forced on other
> people who know how to use a saw properly.
>

Then shut the F___up about it.

On 1/22/2012 12:11 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
> Steve Barker<[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>>
>> damn. $800 in false trips. More than my saw cost new. Dandy product
>> you got there. what a joke!
>>
>
> False trips are an annoyance, but it's possible that the cost of the saw
> and replacement cartridges and blades might be saved by one real trip. You
> can be extremely careful in the shop (and should be) but one moment of
> stupidity or one action messed up could result in permanent injury.
>
> I'm usually in the extremely careful camp, but made one mistake and
> fortunately the push block paid for it.
>
> Puckdropper

Absolutely! We all try to be careful and those of us with half a brain
realize that trying to be careful all of the time just does not fly. We
are human and accidents happen.

How much does it cost to reattach a finger or hand?

On 1/21/2012 9:45 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
> On 1/21/2012 4:59 PM, DanG wrote:
>> On 1/20/2012 8:09 PM, Digger wrote:
>>> On 1/20/2012 5:54 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
>>>> Just once i'd like to see a demonstration of that damn hot dog being
>>>> run
>>>> into that $aw $top blade at the same rate that your finger or hand
>>>> might
>>>> if you were to slip. I'll bet it'll still cause significant damage.
>>>> Those things are a joke.
>>>
>>> Saw the hot dog live demo once. It worked as advertised and barely broke
>>> the skin of the dog. Amazing demo and when that blade stopped, even
>>> though I was expecting some noise it still scared the crap right out
>>> of me.
>>>
>>
>>
>> You ought be in the same room or near the saw when it happens when you
>> WEREN'T expecting it.
>>
>> We've set ours off about 8 times in several years. Usually because of
>> failure to note embedded metal, wet wood, aluminized vapor backer, etc.
>> Only once when a man was pushing it - he thought he had completed a cut
>> he was pushing along the fence (probably way too close and should have
>> been using a push stick) and set it off with no visible cut, looked more
>> like a splinter.
>>
>> Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade.
>>
>
> damn. $800 in false trips. More than my saw cost new. Dandy product you
> got there. what a joke!
>

Don't knock what you can not afford.

[email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 23:14:01 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Jack wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On a woodworking group it's hard to imagine a political election
>>> being a better target than forced saw stop ownership.
>>>
>>> I think in addition to forced ownership of saw stop crap, the hand
>>> wringers should be forced to buy/use power feeders. Much cheaper
>>> than buying a new hand, right?
>>>
>>
>> Oh geezus - this is getting just plain stupid! Nobody - repeat -
>> nobody is forcing saw stop ownership. If you don't like the saw,
>> the owner of the company, or the color of the saw - don't buy the
>> damned thing. Nothing is forcing you to own it. Good Lord - this
>> is just stupid!
>
> ...not that they aren't trying, mind you.

Really - and just how would they even attempt to accomplish such a feat?
Gast is an ass but he is not stupid.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Jack wrote:

>
> How about THIS Mike. Someone *kills* you for using too many capital
> letters. Your wife sells your Tsaw to some clown on Craigslist. He
> chops off his arm because your saw is not "UL" compliant and has no
> guard, no riving knife, no SS tech.
>
> Of course he sues your widowed wife for $12000000000000 dollars
> because of her negligence to have readily available safety crap
> installed before selling you the damned beast!!!!!!! He claims he is
> having trouble whacking off with one hand, big a dick as he is. Your
> widow refuses to give him a hand, ergo the large $suit.
>
> He wins, hand down...
>

No case Jack. She is not required to sell him a UL approved saw, or even
one with all of the equipment or parts.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 00:05:48 -0600, Steve Barker
>i could afford 10 of them tomorrow and pay cash. You don't seem to
>understand. I DON"T WANT ONE!! And i don't want them forced on other
>people who know how to use a saw properly.

Your arrogance in the face of possible injury is absolutely stunning.
*You* are exactly the time of person the SawStop if designed to
protect. It's patently obvious that if you accidentally cut a finger
off, you'd be the first to go crying to a lawyer.

The hole finger for sure.

-------------
"Jack" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
If I can save one finger, it will all be worth it...

Jack

On 1/22/2012 9:12 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
> Puckdropper<puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Steve Barker<[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>>
>>> damn. $800 in false trips. More than my saw cost new. Dandy
>>> product you got there. what a joke!
>>>
>>
>> False trips are an annoyance, but it's possible that the cost of the
>> saw and replacement cartridges and blades might be saved by one real
>> trip. You can be extremely careful in the shop (and should be) but
>> one moment of stupidity or one action messed up could result in
>> permanent injury.
>>
>> I'm usually in the extremely careful camp, but made one mistake and
>> fortunately the push block paid for it.
>
> I likewise consider myself in the "extremely careful" camp, but made one mistake a few years ago,
> resulting in a trip to the ER for what the doc called a "remarkably superficial" injury. Even so, it was
> quite painful, I'm now missing a *very* small portion of the tip of my left thumb, and there's a little spot
> that's permanently numb.
>
> I've left the blood splashes on the wall, as a reminder to be more careful in the future.

And unfortunately it takes this type of accident to make one realize how
foolish the thought is that being careful and knowing the rules is all
you need to do. We are only human after all. ;~)

Then factor the actual cost of the er trip, especially one that might
involve bone, and the occasional false trip brake and blade replacement
cost of $200 is simply not much worth mentioning.

On 1/24/2012 7:48 AM, Han wrote:
> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 1/23/2012 5:49 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>> On 1/23/2012 5:03 PM, Jack wrote:
>>>> On 1/21/2012 6:25 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade.
>>>>>
>>>>> You guys are wise. IMO, only a fool, with a single employee who's
>>>>> job description included operating a table saw, would not have a
>>>>> SawStop today.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheap at fifty times the price ...
>>>>
>>>> Let's see, one guy had 7 false one's in a couple of years and one
>>>> grill that nicked a fing-ee that likely happened because of
>>>> carelessness brought on by lack of respect enabled by the SS.
>>>>
>>>> $100 for a good blade, $80 for the replacement mechanism, times 8,
>>>> times 50... $72,000.
>>>>
>>>> I think it would be close to "not cheap" at fifty times the price,
>>>> at least I know no one that would own or use a tsaw with those sort
>>>> of numbers mandated.
>>>
>>> As an employer, I'd take your $72k for 8 incidents any day over a
>>> jury award of $1.5 million for each incident ... $12,000,000, or over
>>> 1300 times the price.
>>>
>>> :)
>>
>> Ryobi just learned that lesson.
>
> You mean they aren't appealing that decision? That is a crime against
> humanity, and an undeserved plum for Gass.
>
Regardless of the eventual outcome, what has it cost to for defense?

The Pharma Giants do the same thing with their drug trials. They get nine
failures from their double blind studies and the tenth one is the one that
gets published. There is no law stating you have to disclose tests that are
negative.

I doubt a hotdog weiner that is flying through the air would trigger any
electrical sensing apparatus. Judging by the claims made on the mfg. website
videos they are lying about a lot of things.


-----------
"Steve Barker" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

On 1/21/2012 11:56 AM, William F. Adams ([email protected]) wrote:

>
> If memory serves, when they tested this on Ask This Old House the hot
> dog was tossed at the blade.

i'm sure we won't be seeing any videos of it mangling a hotdog or other
such thing. The gubmint would never allow the truth to come out about
such things.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 1/22/2012 12:24 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 21:45:34 -0600, Steve Barker wrote:
>
>>> We've set ours off about 8 times in several years. Usually because of
>>> failure to note embedded metal, wet wood, aluminized vapor backer, etc.
>>> Only once when a man was pushing it - he thought he had completed a cut
>>> he was pushing along the fence (probably way too close and should have
>>> been using a push stick) and set it off with no visible cut, looked
>>> more like a splinter.
>>>
>>> Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade.
>>>
>>>
>> damn. $800 in false trips. More than my saw cost new. Dandy product
>> you got there. what a joke!
>
> What's got your knickers in a twist, Steve? You seem to have directed
> all the hate most of us reserve for Congress at the SawStop makers.
>
> Those were not false trips - they were operator error. And we used a
> SawStop saw in the classroom at Woodcraft when I worked there. At least
> one student stuck a finger in the blade - it fired and she needed a band
> aid.
>
> Yes, the patent owner's business ethics leave something to be desired in
> my opinion, but there's lots worse out there.
>
> It's an election year. There must be a better target for your rants :-).
>


You're right, i probably did lash out in the wrong place. It just irks
me to see so many seemingly smart people condoning government control
and regulation. I'm sorry if i personally offended any persons in this
group. I do get a lot out of reading the messages here.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 1/22/2012 9:02 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
> Steve Barker<[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> i could afford 10 of them tomorrow and pay cash. You don't seem to
>> understand. I DON"T WANT ONE!! And i don't want them forced on other
>> people who know how to use a saw properly.
>
> So if you don't want one, DON'T BUY ONE.
>
> The fact that other people DO want them is not changed by either your arrogant refusal to even
> consider the possibility that you might hurt yourself some day, or your consequent inability to
> understand why it might be a useful thing to have.

i just want it to remain a CHOICE.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 1/22/2012 8:23 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 1/22/2012 12:05 AM, Steve Barker wrote:
>> On 1/21/2012 11:27 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 1/21/2012 9:45 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
>>>> On 1/21/2012 4:59 PM, DanG wrote:
>>>>> On 1/20/2012 8:09 PM, Digger wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/20/2012 5:54 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
>>>>>>> Just once i'd like to see a demonstration of that damn hot dog being
>>>>>>> run
>>>>>>> into that $aw $top blade at the same rate that your finger or hand
>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>> if you were to slip. I'll bet it'll still cause significant damage.
>>>>>>> Those things are a joke.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Saw the hot dog live demo once. It worked as advertised and barely
>>>>>> broke
>>>>>> the skin of the dog. Amazing demo and when that blade stopped, even
>>>>>> though I was expecting some noise it still scared the crap right out
>>>>>> of me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You ought be in the same room or near the saw when it happens when you
>>>>> WEREN'T expecting it.
>>>>>
>>>>> We've set ours off about 8 times in several years. Usually because of
>>>>> failure to note embedded metal, wet wood, aluminized vapor backer,
>>>>> etc.
>>>>> Only once when a man was pushing it - he thought he had completed a
>>>>> cut
>>>>> he was pushing along the fence (probably way too close and should have
>>>>> been using a push stick) and set it off with no visible cut, looked
>>>>> more
>>>>> like a splinter.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> damn. $800 in false trips. More than my saw cost new. Dandy product you
>>>> got there. what a joke!
>>>>
>>>
>>> Don't knock what you can not afford.
>>
>> i could afford 10 of them tomorrow and pay cash. You don't seem to
>> understand. I DON"T WANT ONE!! And i don't want them forced on other
>> people who know how to use a saw properly.
>>
>
> Then shut the F___up about it.

yes sir!

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 1/27/2012 7:58 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 07:12:57 -0600, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:

>> During his yammering he turned around to go back to his stall and but
>> kept looking back at us. The moment he turned his head to watch where
>> he was going he walked squarely into another lift arm which resulted in
>> a nice red knot on his fore head. \

> <g> Which is when someone should have reached over and thumped him
> with a thumb/middlefinger thwack, right on the knot, saying "Forgot
> something!"

Which is, in fact, precisely what his parents failed to do in his
formative years. :)

It's endemic to the particular culture ...

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 1/22/2012 10:21 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 23:14:01 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Jack wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On a woodworking group it's hard to imagine a political election
>>> being a better target than forced saw stop ownership.
>>>
>>> I think in addition to forced ownership of saw stop crap, the hand
>>> wringers should be forced to buy/use power feeders. Much cheaper than
>>> buying a new hand, right?
>>>
>>
>> Oh geezus - this is getting just plain stupid! Nobody - repeat - nobody is
>> forcing saw stop ownership. If you don't like the saw, the owner of the
>> company, or the color of the saw - don't buy the damned thing. Nothing is
>> forcing you to own it. Good Lord - this is just stupid!
>
> ...not that they aren't trying, mind you.

Can a car company force you to buy a car? No, you can choose to not buy
a car. Can a travel agency force you to book a trip? No, you can
choose to not take a trip.

Neither can a saw company. You do not have to buy a saw. If you want
to buy a saw that will be of your own free choice to do so, but you will
have to buy one with an over head blade guard if you do.

Later on if you choose to buy a TS you might also have to get one with
the Saw Stop technology o you can choose to not buy a saw. Noting is
being forced on any one.

Mike Marlow wrote:
> Jack wrote:
>
>>
>> On a woodworking group it's hard to imagine a political election
>> being a better target than forced saw stop ownership.
>>
>> I think in addition to forced ownership of saw stop crap, the hand
>> wringers should be forced to buy/use power feeders. Much cheaper
>> than buying a new hand, right?
>>
>
> Oh geezus - this is getting just plain stupid! Nobody - repeat -
> nobody is forcing saw stop ownership. If you don't like the saw, the
> owner of the company, or the color of the saw - don't buy the damned
> thing. Nothing is forcing you to own it. Good Lord - this is just
> stupid!

Yet.

On 1/23/2012 1:30 AM, Just Wondering wrote:
> On 1/22/2012 7:26 PM, Morgans wrote:
>> Much better, in my opinion, to train them to be extremely careful and
>> to use the already mandated and supplied safety devices. - and to
>> SUPPLY the devices. (like push sticks, finger boards, splitters and
>> guards)
>>
>> Good points.
>>
>> If I was a high school shop teacher (and I am) and I had a saw stop, I
>> would tell the guys that they did not work as good as it shows on
>> you-tube and even worse, that they sometimes did not work at all. That
>> way, they could not depend on the saw stopping to keep them safe, and
>> they would have to work on developing safe work habits.
>>
> Yeah, and your students would promptly do some internet research, find
> out were lying, and call you out on your BS. Your credibility would be
> shot, and then how effective a teacher would you be?

i can guarantee if one of those was in a high school, there'd be a
hotdog test every time the cartridge was replaced.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

LUCKY you!

Make sure you cancel your auto insurance and cut off the seat belts
too.

-
"Jack" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
As an individual user with 50 years of no incidents under my belt, I'll
take 3 new pickup trucks over $72,000 wasted in false trips.

Don't you guys have some trees to scale?


------------
"Swingman" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

On 1/27/2012 7:58 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 07:12:57 -0600, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:

>> During his yammering he turned around to go back to his stall and
>> but
>> kept looking back at us. The moment he turned his head to watch
>> where
>> he was going he walked squarely into another lift arm which resulted
>> in
>> a nice red knot on his fore head. \

> <g> Which is when someone should have reached over and thumped him
> with a thumb/middlefinger thwack, right on the knot, saying "Forgot
> something!"

Which is, in fact, precisely what his parents failed to do in his
formative years. :)

It's endemic to the particular culture ...

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 1/30/2012 6:55 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
> On 1/20/2012 3:54 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
>> Just once i'd like to see a demonstration of that damn hot dog being run
>> into that $aw $top blade at the same rate that your finger or hand might
>> if you were to slip.
>
> Like this?
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiF8a5gacKs


Never mind the hot dog, did you see how fast he cut through that
plywood? LOL

Seriously that guy was ill prepared, must have been his first or second
program. I could have given a better presentation.

On 1/30/2012 8:19 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Just Wondering wrote:
>> On 1/20/2012 3:54 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
>>> Just once i'd like to see a demonstration of that damn hot dog being
>>> run into that $aw $top blade at the same rate that your finger or
>>> hand might if you were to slip.
>>
>> Like this?
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiF8a5gacKs
>
> that guy should never be allowed to demo any product again - for the rest of
> his life. He flat out sucks. That said - he did move the hot dog through
> the blade at as fast a rate as anyone here could expect to see. But... he
> sucked as a demo dolly...
>

He did suck!. I wounder how bad it would have been with out his little
tablet telling him every other word to use.

On 1/22/2012 10:27 PM, Jack wrote:
> On 1/22/2012 9:18 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> Look how many saws are run without guards or splitters. Or by guys not
>> wearing goggles.
>
> You mean like this:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj4eyGEJe-s
>
>

now THAT is pretty cool. Not that i condone using shakes as a roofing,
but the sawing process is fascinating!

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

Steve Barker wrote:

> Just once i'd like to see a demonstration of that damn hot dog being run
> into that $aw $top blade at the same rate that your finger or hand might
> if you were to slip. I'll bet it'll still cause significant damage.
> Those things are a joke.

having just had a run in with the object of this thread. Even if I had had
one, I don't think it would have kept me from getting 12 (should have been
more) stitches in two fingers (4 index, 8 ring). I was cutting slats for a
swing fron a very wet treated 2x8. It was wanting to vear away from the
fence, so, being very careful, I was holding it over with my left hand and
pushing it through with the right hand. The 2x8 just stopped and my left
hand slipped up and over the blade.

Because the 2x8 was as wet as it was, I would think the Saw-Stop would have
already fired. Even if it did not, going over the top of the blade that way
would make it much harder for the trigger mechanism to detect the change in
resistance.

Makes a nice commercial and is something to keep the "safety" folks happy.
Other than that, I cannot think of a good use for it except to generate
funds for the company that makes it.

Deb

Seems to me Joseppi was right!

You are ignorant of how legal cases work. When you go to a lawyer you
are muzzled or you don't get no money and your lawyer walks away from
you.

---------------
"Dave" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

Of course I'm aware of it. How ignorant of you to dismiss human nature
to talk and the eagerness of news outfits to discover and publish the
truth.

------------

If the SawStop failed to fulfill its purpose, the news of it would
spread throughout the woodworking industry like a wildfire ~ despite
any attempt by SawStop insurance to silence such occurrences.

-------------
On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 17:57:25 -0500, "Josepi" <[email protected]>
>Davey! Davey. How ignorant of you to say that! You have no idea how
>legal
>suits are done, do you?
>When they give you the money you sign papers that silence you. The
>game is
>very early yet.

On 1/21/2012 4:59 PM, DanG wrote:

> We've set ours off about 8 times in several years. Usually because of
> failure to note embedded metal, wet wood, aluminized vapor backer, etc.
> Only once when a man was pushing it - he thought he had completed a cut
> he was pushing along the fence (probably way too close and should have
> been using a push stick) and set it off with no visible cut, looked more
> like a splinter.
>
> Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade.

You guys are wise. IMO, only a fool, with a single employee who's job
description included operating a table saw, would not have a SawStop today.

Cheap at fifty times the price ...

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

The accidents I have heard about tell how they didn't even know they
had done it until they saw the blood. Then came the pain.

They don't react in pain.


--------------
"Dave" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Actually, it's entirely possible and probable. Say you're ripping an
8' sheet of wood. You don't need to visualize every inch of pushing to
cut those 8'. A slow feeding of wood and cutting of your finger (until
you react in pain) is entirely possible.

--------------

On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 17:21:46 -0500, "Josepi" <[email protected]>
>That's his point. It may not work as advertised. Who slowly pushes
>their
>finger into the front of the blade?

On 1/23/2012 5:49 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 1/23/2012 5:03 PM, Jack wrote:
>> On 1/21/2012 6:25 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>
>>>> Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade.
>>>
>>> You guys are wise. IMO, only a fool, with a single employee who's job
>>> description included operating a table saw, would not have a SawStop
>>> today.
>>>
>>> Cheap at fifty times the price ...
>>
>> Let's see, one guy had 7 false one's in a couple of years and one grill
>> that nicked a fing-ee that likely happened because of carelessness
>> brought on by lack of respect enabled by the SS.
>>
>> $100 for a good blade, $80 for the replacement mechanism, times 8, times
>> 50... $72,000.
>>
>> I think it would be close to "not cheap" at fifty times the price, at
>> least I know no one that would own or use a tsaw with those sort of
>> numbers mandated.
>
> As an employer, I'd take your $72k for 8 incidents any day over a jury
> award of $1.5 million for each incident ... $12,000,000, or over 1300
> times the price.
>
> :)

Ryobi just learned that lesson.

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
> On 1/20/2012 8:09 PM, Digger wrote:
> > On 1/20/2012 5:54 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
> >> Just once i'd like to see a demonstration of that damn hot dog being run
> >> into that $aw $top blade at the same rate that your finger or hand might
> >> if you were to slip. I'll bet it'll still cause significant damage.
> >> Those things are a joke.
> >
> > Saw the hot dog live demo once. It worked as advertised and barely broke
> > the skin of the dog. Amazing demo and when that blade stopped, even
> > though I was expecting some noise it still scared the crap right out of me.
> >
>
>
> You ought be in the same room or near the saw when it happens when you
> WEREN'T expecting it.
>
> We've set ours off about 8 times in several years. Usually because of
> failure to note embedded metal, wet wood, aluminized vapor backer, etc.
> Only once when a man was pushing it - he thought he had completed a
> cut he was pushing along the fence (probably way too close and should
> have been using a push stick) and set it off with no visible cut, looked
> more like a splinter.
>
> Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade.

I'm wondering how long it will be before a Sawstop going off startles
somebody enough to put his hand in the jointer. Won't that be a fun
lawsuit.

Mike Marlow wrote:
>>
>> ...not that they aren't trying, mind you.
>
> Really - and just how would they even attempt to accomplish such a
> feat? Gast is an ass but he is not stupid.

Have you been living in a cave? The SawStop folks have persuaded the
Consumer Product Safety Commission to propose a federal regulation mandating
SawStop (or equivalent) on table saws.

It's right there in the Federal Register. You really should keep up.

On 1/22/2012 8:26 PM, Morgans wrote:
> Much better, in my opinion, to train them to be extremely careful and
> to use the already mandated and supplied safety devices. - and to
> SUPPLY the devices. (like push sticks, finger boards, splitters and
> guards)
>
> Good points.
>
> If I was a high school shop teacher (and I am) and I had a saw stop, I
> would tell the guys that they did not work as good as it shows on
> you-tube and even worse, that they sometimes did not work at all. That
> way, they could not depend on the saw stopping to keep them safe, and
> they would have to work on developing safe work habits.
>
> -- Jim in NC
>

And as all kids do they would look to prove you wrong and think you were
a liar or incompetent since you could not prove that they did not work.

Tell the truth, teach them the correct way to use a TS because they may
not always have the luxury of working on a TS with this technology.

On 1/20/2012 6:13 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
> On Jan 20, 2:54 pm, Steve Barker<[email protected]> wrote:
>> Just once i'd like to see a demonstration of that damn hot dog being run
>> into that $aw $top blade at the same rate that your finger or hand might
>> if you were to slip. I'll bet it'll still cause significant damage.
>> Those things are a joke.
>> --
>> Steve Barker
>> remove the "not" from my address to email
>
> Sounds like you are looking to pick a fight.
>
> On super slow-mo cameras the blade drops below the table before the
> second tooth has time to rotate into position to hit the dog. I would
> say at worst you would get a small gash. No way enough rotation to get
> to bone even if fell into it.


LMAO! yeah they EASE that hot dog in so slow the damn smell would get
there first. Not trying to pick a fight. I could care less. I just
hate to see more government control over stupidity.


--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 1/30/2012 6:55 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
> On 1/20/2012 3:54 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
>> Just once i'd like to see a demonstration of that damn hot dog being run
>> into that $aw $top blade at the same rate that your finger or hand might
>> if you were to slip.
>
> Like this?
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiF8a5gacKs


close

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 1/20/2012 6:20 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
> On 1/20/2012 6:13 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>> On Jan 20, 2:54 pm, Steve Barker<[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Just once i'd like to see a demonstration of that damn hot dog being run
>>> into that $aw $top blade at the same rate that your finger or hand might
>>> if you were to slip. I'll bet it'll still cause significant damage.
>>> Those things are a joke.
>>> --
>>> Steve Barker
>>> remove the "not" from my address to email
>>
>> Sounds like you are looking to pick a fight.
>>
>> On super slow-mo cameras the blade drops below the table before the
>> second tooth has time to rotate into position to hit the dog. I would
>> say at worst you would get a small gash. No way enough rotation to get
>> to bone even if fell into it.
>
>
> LMAO! yeah they EASE that hot dog in so slow the damn smell would get
> there first. Not trying to pick a fight. I could care less. I just hate
> to see more government control over stupidity.
>
>


I hate to say it but it will be people with your mentality that will be
the reason the government will control it. You people need this kind of
government protection.

On 1/20/2012 4:54 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
> Just once i'd like to see a demonstration of that damn hot dog being run
> into that $aw $top blade at the same rate that your finger or hand might
> if you were to slip. I'll bet it'll still cause significant damage.
> Those things are a joke.



!!!!!!!!!!!!!! T R O L L !!!!!!!!!!!

On 1/21/2012 9:59 AM, Steve Barker wrote:
> On 1/21/2012 8:20 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/20/2012 6:20 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
>>> On 1/20/2012 6:13 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>>>> On Jan 20, 2:54 pm, Steve Barker<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> Just once i'd like to see a demonstration of that damn hot dog being
>>>>> run
>>>>> into that $aw $top blade at the same rate that your finger or hand
>>>>> might
>>>>> if you were to slip. I'll bet it'll still cause significant damage.
>>>>> Those things are a joke.
>>>>> --
>>>>> Steve Barker
>>>>> remove the "not" from my address to email
>>>>
>>>> Sounds like you are looking to pick a fight.
>>>>
>>>> On super slow-mo cameras the blade drops below the table before the
>>>> second tooth has time to rotate into position to hit the dog. I would
>>>> say at worst you would get a small gash. No way enough rotation to get
>>>> to bone even if fell into it.
>>>
>>>
>>> LMAO! yeah they EASE that hot dog in so slow the damn smell would get
>>> there first. Not trying to pick a fight. I could care less. I just hate
>>> to see more government control over stupidity.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> I hate to say it but it will be people with your mentality that will be
>> the reason the government will control it. You people need this kind of
>> government protection.
>>
>
> hardly
>

Yeah I think so.

On 1/24/2012 12:16 PM, Jack wrote:

> People ain't dice though. There are two good reasons the chances of an
> accident increase over time. One is complacency. Get too nonchalant and
> whack, one less fing-ee. The other is age. The longer you go w/o
> accident, the older ya get. The older ya get, the more useless ya get
> and one day, whack, another fing-ee bites the dust....


The principle of _risk-compensation effect_: "When people feel safer,
they take more chances, so the total level of safety remains constant".

IOW, more SS's on the market will not necessarily result in fewer table
saw accidents, although the severity may arguably decrease, at least at
this stage of the game.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

I still want to see one whipped into the carbide from the side of the blade
where it doesn't pull away from the contact angle.

Yeah, very bad demo guy.


---------
"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

that guy should never be allowed to demo any product again - for the rest of
his life. He flat out sucks. That said - he did move the hot dog through
the blade at as fast a rate as anyone here could expect to see. But... he
sucked as a demo dolly...

On 1/22/2012 6:53 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
> On 1/22/2012 12:24 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
>> On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 21:45:34 -0600, Steve Barker wrote:
>>
>>>> We've set ours off about 8 times in several years. Usually because of
>>>> failure to note embedded metal, wet wood, aluminized vapor backer, etc.
>>>> Only once when a man was pushing it - he thought he had completed a cut
>>>> he was pushing along the fence (probably way too close and should have
>>>> been using a push stick) and set it off with no visible cut, looked
>>>> more like a splinter.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> damn. $800 in false trips. More than my saw cost new. Dandy product
>>> you got there. what a joke!
>>
>> What's got your knickers in a twist, Steve? You seem to have directed
>> all the hate most of us reserve for Congress at the SawStop makers.
>>
>> Those were not false trips - they were operator error. And we used a
>> SawStop saw in the classroom at Woodcraft when I worked there. At least
>> one student stuck a finger in the blade - it fired and she needed a band
>> aid.
>>
>> Yes, the patent owner's business ethics leave something to be desired in
>> my opinion, but there's lots worse out there.
>>
>> It's an election year. There must be a better target for your rants :-).
>>
>
>
> You're right, i probably did lash out in the wrong place. It just irks
> me to see so many seemingly smart people condoning government control
> and regulation. I'm sorry if i personally offended any persons in this
> group. I do get a lot out of reading the messages here.
>

Steve you did not offend any one IMHO but you did seem to show a bit of
ignorance, and please don't that that as an insult. Most all of us have
been in your position and hopefully you will not ever have to experience
what a few of us have. But for those of us that thought like you and
have seen the light you looked and acted like an arrogant beginner, like
we all have.

Regardless of where these guys that are producing this saw are coming
from, and we would all be naive to think it is all for the good of the
people and not to make money, they are producing a quality product that
is safer than anything one the market. When it comes to my safety I am
going to swallow my pride and make the smart choice.

On 1/23/2012 4:02 PM, Jack wrote:
> On 1/22/2012 11:34 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/22/2012 9:33 PM, Jack wrote:
>>> On 1/22/2012 7:53 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
>>>> On 1/22/2012 12:24 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
>>>
>>>>> It's an election year. There must be a better target for your rants
>>>>> :-).
>>>
>>>> You're right, i probably did lash out in the wrong place. It just irks
>>>> me to see so many seemingly smart people condoning government control
>>>> and regulation. I'm sorry if i personally offended any persons in this
>>>> group. I do get a lot out of reading the messages here.
>>>
>>> On a woodworking group it's hard to imagine a political election being a
>>> better target than forced saw stop ownership.
>>>
>>> I think in addition to forced ownership of saw stop crap, the hand
>>> wringers should be forced to buy/use power feeders. Much cheaper than
>>> buying a new hand, right?
>>>
>>> Of course if you fall into the power feeder... Well, maybe a law to
>>> force these guys to plunk the plank into the feeder with the power off,
>>> go in another room with the power switch, like a dentist doing xrays....
>>>
>>> Yeah, that's the ticket.
>>>
>>> Jack
>>> Got Change: Supply and Demand ======> Command and Control!
>>
>>
>> The fallacy of your analogy here is that if it is mandated by the
>> government or actually willingly accepted by all manufacturers NO ONE is
>> going to be forced to buy a saw with this technology.
>
> You can't seriously think anyone is saying every man woman and child,
> living in the US, would be forced to buy a table saw are you?

I don't think every one is thinking that but there are those that
probably do. In this day and age you never know what people are thinking.


>
>> The choice to buy a saw with this technology or not will still be
>> strictly up to you.
>> I can assure you my wife will not be buying one. The simple truth is
>> that that if you can not buy a saw with the safety device added you can
>> elect to not buy a saw at all.
>
> Ahhh, you are saying this... Very dumb of you.

No I am not saying this but it has been said repeatedly. I am simply
pointing out that you do not have to purchase a TS at all.


>
>> Even more aggravating to me is that right now you cannot buy a saw with
>> out the common blade guard, a device that is way less effective that the
>> saw stop technology and yet we buy these saws any way but only because
>> we want to. No one is forcing us to buy these saws with the less than
>> desirable guards, which are mandated by some authority.
>
> Thank god for that. I don't think I'd have room if me, the wife, and two
> kids were each forced to buy a table saw with (or without) saw stop
> technology. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
>
> Now that you cleared that up, do you think running a table
> saw/shaper/3hp router in a table with $300 lift would be safer with a
> power feeder? Should a power feeder be required with purchase of each of
> these machines? (Not by every person in the US, just those purchasing
> one of the tools that would be safer with a power feeder?

It might be safer but I don't think it should be mandatory as with the
SawStop.


>
> Should I be allowed to buy a (new) table saw w/o saw stop tech IF I
> bought a power feeder, and vice versa, or should I be required to buy
> both (if I were to buy a new saw, not implying everyone on earth should
> be required to buy any of the above tools...)
>
> I am thinking anyone that buys a (new) Chevy Volt might also be required
> to buy a (new) table saw with a power feeder AND Saw Stop tech... Not
> sure why, but works for me.

Now having said that all the moaning, groaning and voicing an opinion
of why we think Gass is a SOB apparently is not working.

What those that are clearly alarmed about the situation should do is
voice that if this deal goes through that every one that has a TS now
and "wants" to trade up gets full credit for the saw they already have
as trade in. If you have a 15 year old cabinet saw and you want a new
one but the manufacturer has to pay you what you paid for that saw 15
years ago as trade in.

The manufacturers can't have their cake and eat it too.

But seriously if the mandate goes through supply and demand will dictate
pricing. We'll see then how many are in favor and how many are not.

Steve Barker <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> i could afford 10 of them tomorrow and pay cash. You don't seem to
> understand. I DON"T WANT ONE!! And i don't want them forced on other
> people who know how to use a saw properly.

So if you don't want one, DON'T BUY ONE.

The fact that other people DO want them is not changed by either your arrogant refusal to even
consider the possibility that you might hurt yourself some day, or your consequent inability to
understand why it might be a useful thing to have.

Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Steve Barker <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>>
>> damn. $800 in false trips. More than my saw cost new. Dandy
>> product you got there. what a joke!
>>
>
> False trips are an annoyance, but it's possible that the cost of the
> saw and replacement cartridges and blades might be saved by one real
> trip. You can be extremely careful in the shop (and should be) but
> one moment of stupidity or one action messed up could result in
> permanent injury.
>
> I'm usually in the extremely careful camp, but made one mistake and
> fortunately the push block paid for it.

I likewise consider myself in the "extremely careful" camp, but made one mistake a few years ago,
resulting in a trip to the ER for what the doc called a "remarkably superficial" injury. Even so, it was
quite painful, I'm now missing a *very* small portion of the tip of my left thumb, and there's a little spot
that's permanently numb.

I've left the blood splashes on the wall, as a reminder to be more careful in the future.

Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On 1/23/2012 5:49 PM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 1/23/2012 5:03 PM, Jack wrote:
>>> On 1/21/2012 6:25 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade.
>>>>
>>>> You guys are wise. IMO, only a fool, with a single employee who's
>>>> job description included operating a table saw, would not have a
>>>> SawStop today.
>>>>
>>>> Cheap at fifty times the price ...
>>>
>>> Let's see, one guy had 7 false one's in a couple of years and one
>>> grill that nicked a fing-ee that likely happened because of
>>> carelessness brought on by lack of respect enabled by the SS.
>>>
>>> $100 for a good blade, $80 for the replacement mechanism, times 8,
>>> times 50... $72,000.
>>>
>>> I think it would be close to "not cheap" at fifty times the price,
>>> at least I know no one that would own or use a tsaw with those sort
>>> of numbers mandated.
>>
>> As an employer, I'd take your $72k for 8 incidents any day over a
>> jury award of $1.5 million for each incident ... $12,000,000, or over
>> 1300 times the price.
>>
>> :)
>
> Ryobi just learned that lesson.

You mean they aren't appealing that decision? That is a crime against
humanity, and an undeserved plum for Gass.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On 1/24/2012 7:48 AM, Han wrote:
>> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> On 1/23/2012 5:49 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>>> On 1/23/2012 5:03 PM, Jack wrote:
>>>>> On 1/21/2012 6:25 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You guys are wise. IMO, only a fool, with a single employee who's
>>>>>> job description included operating a table saw, would not have a
>>>>>> SawStop today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheap at fifty times the price ...
>>>>>
>>>>> Let's see, one guy had 7 false one's in a couple of years and one
>>>>> grill that nicked a fing-ee that likely happened because of
>>>>> carelessness brought on by lack of respect enabled by the SS.
>>>>>
>>>>> $100 for a good blade, $80 for the replacement mechanism, times 8,
>>>>> times 50... $72,000.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think it would be close to "not cheap" at fifty times the price,
>>>>> at least I know no one that would own or use a tsaw with those
>>>>> sort of numbers mandated.
>>>>
>>>> As an employer, I'd take your $72k for 8 incidents any day over a
>>>> jury award of $1.5 million for each incident ... $12,000,000, or
>>>> over 1300 times the price.
>>>>
>>>> :)
>>>
>>> Ryobi just learned that lesson.
>>
>> You mean they aren't appealing that decision? That is a crime
>> against humanity, and an undeserved plum for Gass.
>>
> Regardless of the eventual outcome, what has it cost to for defense?

Like it or not, that is the US law system. If it had been a "frivolous"
suit, you could countersue, I think. IANAL!!!

Btw, I like the system in other countries, where you can be forced to
pay the expenses of the winner of a suit, if the winner is the
defendant. But that doesn't apply here (yet?).

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On 1/24/2012 9:08 AM, Jack wrote:
>> On 1/23/2012 6:33 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 1/23/2012 5:03 PM, Jack wrote:
>>>> On 1/21/2012 6:25 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade.
>>>>>
>>>>> You guys are wise. IMO, only a fool, with a single employee who's
>>>>> job description included operating a table saw, would not have a
>>>>> SawStop today.
>>
>>>> Don't need no steenking saw stops...
>>>>
>>>> Jack
>>>
>>> Now I will have to say to trip the mechanism that many times you
>>> also will have factor in positive trips that actually saved a finger
>>> or hand.
>>>
>>> Lets say one time in 50, at Approximately $25,000~$35,000 per
>>> incident to cover emergency surgery and reconstruction and
>>> rehabilitation and perhaps a prosthetic and lost wages, TIMES 8
>>> equals $200,000~$280,000,
>>>
>>> Yes cheap at 50 times the price.
>>
>> Well I don't have one, nor a blade guard, nor a rive, and after 50
>> years of doing this, never nicked one fing-ee. Nor did either of my
>> brothers, nor did my dad. At my age, I would think owning one might
>> be a good idea, but, I don't need no steenking gov't dick head
>> mandating I buy one with a every new saw purchase.
>
> Jack, you sound exactly like all the people that eventually did have
> an accident. Almost verbatim your words came out of their mouths.
> The longer you go with out having an accident the closer you are to
> having one.

Not true. If the chances of anyone having an accident are X, then having
had no accidents doesn't increase your chances. That's elementary in
statistics. Roll 2 dice. You can calculate the chances for snake-eyes,
if nobody tampered with the dice. The next time you roll those same
dice, the chances for snake eyes are the same. Now, the chances for
rolling snake eyes some time increase with the number of rolls allowed.

>> To be really safe, the gov't would have to mandate we stay on the
>> couch, with a remote so we don't slip on an empty gov't approved
>> potato chip bag on the way to the gov't controlled TV.
>
> To be really safe, don't cut off your nose to spite your face.
>



--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On paper that sounds good but jurys are paid off every where and big
> business has more money to spend than you or I. We may not be able to
> afford to be in the right.

There are law systems without juries that work just as well as those with
...

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On 1/24/2012 11:16 AM, Han wrote:
>
>> Not true. If the chances of anyone having an accident are X, then
>> having had no accidents doesn't increase your chances. That's
>> elementary in statistics. Roll 2 dice. You can calculate the
>> chances for snake-eyes, if nobody tampered with the dice. The next
>> time you roll those same dice, the chances for snake eyes are the
>> same. Now, the chances for rolling snake eyes some time increase
>> with the number of rolls allowed.
>
> Personally, I prefer Bayesian probability over maturity of chances.
> LOL!

I wasn't trying to say that in the course of using powertools one doesn't
either get more complacent or more experienced/careful. Due to the few
not so good experiences, I'm more careful now than earlier in life ...

And looking up Bayesian probability, I got confused early on, so quit
further "research" on that subject ... <grin>.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On 1/24/2012 2:03 PM, Han wrote:
>> Swingman<[email protected]> wrote in
>
>>> Personally, I prefer Bayesian probability over maturity of chances.
>>> LOL!
>
>> And looking up Bayesian probability, I got confused early on, so quit
>> further "research" on that subject ...<grin>.
>
> Basically, if your coin flips heads twenty times in a row, disregard
> "maturity of chances" as the basis for future bets, and go with the
> obviously sufficient evidential probability that the coin is somehow
> influenced in that direction. :)

I like that idea. They got rich because they fixed the rules ...
(ducking)

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Larry Jaques <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Win or lose, it -will- raise the price of tools from Ryobi in the
> future. The judge and jury on that one ought to be horsewhipped.
> If anything, the contractor and Osorio were equally to blame, not the
> sawmaker. I hope the appeal reverses it completely.
> PISSES ME OFF, IT DOES!

I tried to find out the state of any appeal from the appeals court verdict,
but only found that some law firm is seeking additional plaintiffs
www.schmidtlaw.com/table-saw-injury-lawsuit-osorio/

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 1/21/2012 4:13 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
> On 1/21/2012 2:25 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/21/2012 9:59 AM, Steve Barker wrote:
>>> On 1/21/2012 8:20 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 1/20/2012 6:20 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
>>>>> On 1/20/2012 6:13 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Jan 20, 2:54 pm, Steve Barker<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>> Just once i'd like to see a demonstration of that damn hot dog being
>>>>>>> run
>>>>>>> into that $aw $top blade at the same rate that your finger or hand
>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>> if you were to slip. I'll bet it'll still cause significant damage.
>>>>>>> Those things are a joke.
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Steve Barker
>>>>>>> remove the "not" from my address to email
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sounds like you are looking to pick a fight.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On super slow-mo cameras the blade drops below the table before the
>>>>>> second tooth has time to rotate into position to hit the dog. I would
>>>>>> say at worst you would get a small gash. No way enough rotation to
>>>>>> get
>>>>>> to bone even if fell into it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> LMAO! yeah they EASE that hot dog in so slow the damn smell would get
>>>>> there first. Not trying to pick a fight. I could care less. I just
>>>>> hate
>>>>> to see more government control over stupidity.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I hate to say it but it will be people with your mentality that will be
>>>> the reason the government will control it. You people need this kind of
>>>> government protection.
>>>>
>>>
>>> hardly
>>>
>>
>> Yeah I think so.
>
> well i guess they can try. I've got a brand new NON $aw $top saw that
> will more than outlast me. I'll never have to use one. I may even buy up
> some other good saws that can be sold after nothing but the junkassed $$
> is all that's available.
>

You jump all over that. You du'man.

On 1/24/2012 9:39 AM, Jack wrote:
> On 1/23/2012 6:49 PM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 1/23/2012 5:03 PM, Jack wrote:
>>> On 1/21/2012 6:25 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade.
>>
>>>> Cheap at fifty times the price ...
>
>>> $100 for a good blade, $80 for the replacement mechanism, times 8, times
>>> 50... $72,000.
>>>
>>> I think it would be close to "not cheap" at fifty times the price, at
>>> least I know no one that would own or use a tsaw with those sort of
>>> numbers mandated.
>>
>> As an employer, I'd take your $72k for 8 incidents any day over a jury
>> award of $1.5 million for each incident ... $12,000,000, or over 1300
>> times the price.
>
> As an individual user with 50 years of no incidents under my belt, I'll
> take 3 new pickup trucks over $72,000 wasted in false trips.
>

Tick tock, be careful Jack.

On 1/24/2012 8:26 AM, Han wrote:
> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 1/24/2012 7:48 AM, Han wrote:
>>> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>>> On 1/23/2012 5:49 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>>>> On 1/23/2012 5:03 PM, Jack wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/21/2012 6:25 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You guys are wise. IMO, only a fool, with a single employee who's
>>>>>>> job description included operating a table saw, would not have a
>>>>>>> SawStop today.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheap at fifty times the price ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let's see, one guy had 7 false one's in a couple of years and one
>>>>>> grill that nicked a fing-ee that likely happened because of
>>>>>> carelessness brought on by lack of respect enabled by the SS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> $100 for a good blade, $80 for the replacement mechanism, times 8,
>>>>>> times 50... $72,000.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think it would be close to "not cheap" at fifty times the price,
>>>>>> at least I know no one that would own or use a tsaw with those
>>>>>> sort of numbers mandated.
>>>>>
>>>>> As an employer, I'd take your $72k for 8 incidents any day over a
>>>>> jury award of $1.5 million for each incident ... $12,000,000, or
>>>>> over 1300 times the price.
>>>>>
>>>>> :)
>>>>
>>>> Ryobi just learned that lesson.
>>>
>>> You mean they aren't appealing that decision? That is a crime
>>> against humanity, and an undeserved plum for Gass.
>>>
>> Regardless of the eventual outcome, what has it cost to for defense?
>
> Like it or not, that is the US law system. If it had been a "frivolous"
> suit, you could countersue, I think. IANAL!!!
>
> Btw, I like the system in other countries, where you can be forced to
> pay the expenses of the winner of a suit, if the winner is the
> defendant. But that doesn't apply here (yet?).
>

On paper that sounds good but jurys are paid off every where and big
business has more money to spend than you or I. We may not be able to
afford to be in the right.

That's his point. It may not work as advertised. Who slowly pushes their
finger into the front of the blade?


------------
"Larry W" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
I agree that the government should not mandate adoption of this technology,
but the system does work as advertised. THere are a number of videos on
Youtube and other sites where it is demonstrated at normal feed speeds,
and more than a few testimonials too.


--
When the game is over, the pawn and the king are returned to the same box.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org

I have a feeling this Steve Barker is MII in disguise.Same stupid
attitude. It's his opinion, and he thinks everyone needs to adopt his
opinion. Kind of like the ASH HOLE... don't you think.

On 1/22/2012 3:24 AM, Dave wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 00:05:48 -0600, Steve Barker
>> i could afford 10 of them tomorrow and pay cash. You don't seem to
>> understand. I DON"T WANT ONE!! And i don't want them forced on other
>> people who know how to use a saw properly.
>
> Your arrogance in the face of possible injury is absolutely stunning.
> *You* are exactly the time of person the SawStop if designed to
> protect. It's patently obvious that if you accidentally cut a finger
> off, you'd be the first to go crying to a lawyer.

Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 21:19:47 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>

>>
>> that guy should never be allowed to demo any product again - for the
>> rest of his life. He flat out sucks. That said - he did move the
>> hot dog through the blade at as fast a rate as anyone here could
>> expect to see. But... he sucked as a demo dolly...
>
> Bbbbbbut, he's from Chicago, home of Obama, Daley, other Democrat
> Mafia. Are YOU gonna tell him?

Nah - it would take too much time for it to make sense to him.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Bill wrote:
> On 1/23/2012 10:49 AM, Dave wrote:
>> On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 06:20:51 -0600, "HeyBub"<[email protected]>
>>> Have you been living in a cave? The SawStop folks have persuaded the
>>> Consumer Product Safety Commission to propose a federal regulation
>>> mandating SawStop (or equivalent) on table saws.
>>
>> What if anything, does that proposed federal regulation say about
>> previously owned table saws? Are they grandfathered in as being
>> acceptable? Do we all need to buy our preferred choice of table saw
>> before that proposed regulation comes into effect?
>
>
> I know riving knifes are now required to be **UL Compliant**.
> I do not know the significance of this compliancy (perhaps someone can
> address this), but it's not hard for me to imagine what the next
> requirement of UL Coompliancy could be for table saws.

UL compliance only pertains to newly purchased items. It has nothing to do
with existing products. As for new compliancy requirments - that's for new
stuff. When was the last time the UL Police showed up at your house to
inspect and demand an update to your 20 year old toaster or steam iron?

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 1/26/2012 9:04 PM, Dave wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 23:24:37 -0500, Jack<[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Just one question Jack. How will you show your face here if you chop
>>> one of your fingers off?
>>
>> I'd feel about the same as you would feel if you get in a car wreck and
>> are not wearing a NASCAR approved crash helmet, and kill the few
>
> The big difference, is that I wouldn't have been spouting my mouth off
> beforehand, about how it's never going to happen to me.
>
> That's the big difference between you and me. You flaunt your
> arrogance and "it will never happen to me" attitude with every line
> of text you post. That kind of presumed 'specialness' makes people
> watch you for your inevitable screwup.

Not to worry, masters of the universe tend to not divulge problems when
they happen so as far as we know they may or may not have any digits
right now. LOL



About 25 years ago when I worked in an automobile dealership we had a
loud mouth, had an answer for everything know it all, been there done
that, had it better, had it worse, et., 22 year old mechanic. You know
the type? ;~)

Anyway another mechanic had a technical difficulty with lowering a
vehicle down from an above ground lift. Oddly the lift arm on one side
began lowering before the other and they became racked, no pun intended.
The lift would neither lower or raise until the weight was removed
from the lower side. The big mouth mechanic mentioned no less that 10
ways to resolve the situation, none of which were used. I called our
wrecker in to lift one end of the vehicle enough to relieve the tension
on the lower rack and long story short the car came down with out mayhem.
Immediately and almost at the top of his voice the loud mouth mechanic
started taking credit for the resolution repeating how it all went down
to all of us that were there, like we could not comprehend what just
happened.

During his yammering he turned around to go back to his stall and but
kept looking back at us. The moment he turned his head to watch where
he was going he walked squarely into another lift arm which resulted in
a nice red knot on his fore head. He did shut up for a moment. LOL
Weeks later as he was retelling the story to some one that did not
witness his accomplishment, he left out the detail of his close
encounter with the adjacent lift.

On 1/21/2012 11:27 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 1/21/2012 9:45 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
>> On 1/21/2012 4:59 PM, DanG wrote:
>>> On 1/20/2012 8:09 PM, Digger wrote:
>>>> On 1/20/2012 5:54 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
>>>>> Just once i'd like to see a demonstration of that damn hot dog being
>>>>> run
>>>>> into that $aw $top blade at the same rate that your finger or hand
>>>>> might
>>>>> if you were to slip. I'll bet it'll still cause significant damage.
>>>>> Those things are a joke.
>>>>
>>>> Saw the hot dog live demo once. It worked as advertised and barely
>>>> broke
>>>> the skin of the dog. Amazing demo and when that blade stopped, even
>>>> though I was expecting some noise it still scared the crap right out
>>>> of me.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You ought be in the same room or near the saw when it happens when you
>>> WEREN'T expecting it.
>>>
>>> We've set ours off about 8 times in several years. Usually because of
>>> failure to note embedded metal, wet wood, aluminized vapor backer, etc.
>>> Only once when a man was pushing it - he thought he had completed a cut
>>> he was pushing along the fence (probably way too close and should have
>>> been using a push stick) and set it off with no visible cut, looked more
>>> like a splinter.
>>>
>>> Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade.
>>>
>>
>> damn. $800 in false trips. More than my saw cost new. Dandy product you
>> got there. what a joke!
>>
>
> Don't knock what you can not afford.

i could afford 10 of them tomorrow and pay cash. You don't seem to
understand. I DON"T WANT ONE!! And i don't want them forced on other
people who know how to use a saw properly.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

Dr. Deb wrote:
> Steve Barker wrote:
>

>
> Because the 2x8 was as wet as it was, I would think the Saw-Stop
> would have already fired. Even if it did not, going over the top of
> the blade that way would make it much harder for the trigger
> mechanism to detect the change in resistance.
>

Not sure that would have made any difference. The blade does not sense
resistance, it senses capacitance and I don't believe it would have mattered
that your hand went over the top instead of straight in along the table.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 08:26:04 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>Absolutely! We all try to be careful and those of us with half a brain
>realize that trying to be careful all of the time just does not fly. We
>are human and accidents happen.
>
>How much does it cost to reattach a finger or hand?

There's one thing that all the SawStop naysayers don't consider. That
is the fact that there's no incidents of the SawStop failing to
function as it's designed to. (At least, I haven't heard of any) If
there were, the news of it would have reverberated throughout the
woodworking industry as well as all the general news sources.

Apparently, the SawStop works as it's designed to otherwise we'd all
have heard about it. 'Nuff Said!

HeyBub wrote:
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>
>>> ...not that they aren't trying, mind you.
>>
>> Really - and just how would they even attempt to accomplish such a
>> feat? Gast is an ass but he is not stupid.
>
> Have you been living in a cave? The SawStop folks have persuaded the
> Consumer Product Safety Commission to propose a federal regulation
> mandating SawStop (or equivalent) on table saws.
>
> It's right there in the Federal Register. You really should keep up.

I have - have you? There is nothing in that proposal that forces you or I
to go out and buy a SawStop and melt down our existing table saws.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 1/24/2012 11:16 AM, Han wrote:

> Not true. If the chances of anyone having an accident are X, then having
> had no accidents doesn't increase your chances. That's elementary in
> statistics. Roll 2 dice. You can calculate the chances for snake-eyes,
> if nobody tampered with the dice. The next time you roll those same
> dice, the chances for snake eyes are the same. Now, the chances for
> rolling snake eyes some time increase with the number of rolls allowed.

Personally, I prefer Bayesian probability over maturity of chances. LOL!

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

Leon wrote:
> On 1/22/2012 8:26 PM, Morgans wrote:
>> Much better, in my opinion, to train them to be extremely careful and
>> to use the already mandated and supplied safety devices. - and to
>> SUPPLY the devices. (like push sticks, finger boards, splitters and
>> guards)
>>
>> Good points.
>>
>> If I was a high school shop teacher (and I am) and I had a saw stop,
>> I would tell the guys that they did not work as good as it shows on
>> you-tube and even worse, that they sometimes did not work at all.
>> That way, they could not depend on the saw stopping to keep them
>> safe, and they would have to work on developing safe work habits.
>>
>> -- Jim in NC
>>
>
> And as all kids do they would look to prove you wrong and think you
> were a liar or incompetent since you could not prove that they did
> not work.
> Tell the truth, teach them the correct way to use a TS because they
> may not always have the luxury of working on a TS with this
> technology.

I think that's what Jim is trying to do Leon. I think he's trying to
discourage the kids from blind trust in anything - technology, "safety
devices", etc. and to develop practical safe habits.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 1/24/2012 1:11 PM, Jack wrote:
> On 1/24/2012 12:47 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/24/2012 10:55 AM, Jack wrote:
>>> On 1/23/2012 11:41 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>> Bill wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I know riving knifes are now required to be **UL Compliant**.
>>>>> I do not know the significance of this compliancy (perhaps someone can
>>>>> address this), but it's not hard for me to imagine what the next
>>>>> requirement of UL Coompliancy could be for table saws.
>>>>
>>>> UL compliance only pertains to newly purchased items. It has nothing
>>>> to do
>>>> with existing products. As for new compliancy requirments - that's for
>>>> new
>>>> stuff. When was the last time the UL Police showed up at your house to
>>>> inspect and demand an update to your 20 year old toaster or steam iron?
>>>
>>> How about THIS Mike. Someone *kills* you for using too many capital
>>> letters. Your wife sells your Tsaw to some clown on Craigslist. He chops
>>> off his arm because your saw is not "UL" compliant and has no guard, no
>>> riving knife, no SS tech.
>>>
>>> Of course he sues your widowed wife for $12000000000000 dollars because
>>> of her negligence to have readily available safety crap installed before
>>> selling you the damned beast!!!!!!! He claims he is having trouble
>>> whacking off with one hand, big a dick as he is. Your widow refuses to
>>> give him a hand, ergo the large $suit.
>>>
>>> He wins, hand down...
>>>
>>> Jack
>>> A boiled egg is hard to beat.
>>
>> And that example is exactly why the government is going to end up taking
>> care of people that make those kind of comments.
>> You make a pretty good defense for SawStop.
>
> If I can save one finger, it will all be worth it...
>
> Jack

Now you are coming around. LOL Fun playing tag with you Jack.

On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 07:12:57 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 1/26/2012 9:04 PM, Dave wrote:
>> On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 23:24:37 -0500, Jack<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Just one question Jack. How will you show your face here if you chop
>>>> one of your fingers off?
>>>
>>> I'd feel about the same as you would feel if you get in a car wreck and
>>> are not wearing a NASCAR approved crash helmet, and kill the few
>>
>> The big difference, is that I wouldn't have been spouting my mouth off
>> beforehand, about how it's never going to happen to me.
>>
>> That's the big difference between you and me. You flaunt your
>> arrogance and "it will never happen to me" attitude with every line
>> of text you post. That kind of presumed 'specialness' makes people
>> watch you for your inevitable screwup.
>
>Not to worry, masters of the universe tend to not divulge problems when
>they happen so as far as we know they may or may not have any digits
>right now. LOL
>
>
>
>About 25 years ago when I worked in an automobile dealership we had a
>loud mouth, had an answer for everything know it all, been there done
>that, had it better, had it worse, et., 22 year old mechanic. You know
>the type? ;~)
>
>Anyway another mechanic had a technical difficulty with lowering a
>vehicle down from an above ground lift. Oddly the lift arm on one side
>began lowering before the other and they became racked, no pun intended.
> The lift would neither lower or raise until the weight was removed
>from the lower side. The big mouth mechanic mentioned no less that 10
>ways to resolve the situation, none of which were used. I called our
>wrecker in to lift one end of the vehicle enough to relieve the tension
>on the lower rack and long story short the car came down with out mayhem.
>Immediately and almost at the top of his voice the loud mouth mechanic
>started taking credit for the resolution repeating how it all went down
>to all of us that were there, like we could not comprehend what just
>happened.
>
>During his yammering he turned around to go back to his stall and but
>kept looking back at us. The moment he turned his head to watch where
>he was going he walked squarely into another lift arm which resulted in
>a nice red knot on his fore head. He did shut up for a moment. LOL
>Weeks later as he was retelling the story to some one that did not
>witness his accomplishment, he left out the detail of his close
>encounter with the adjacent lift.

<g> Which is when someone should have reached over and thumped him
with a thumb/middlefinger thwack, right on the knot, saying "Forgot
something!"

--
Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
-- George Lois

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 23:24:37 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Just one question Jack. How will you show your face here if you chop
>> one of your fingers off?
>
>I'd feel about the same as you would feel if you get in a car wreck and
>are not wearing a NASCAR approved crash helmet, and kill the few

The big difference, is that I wouldn't have been spouting my mouth off
beforehand, about how it's never going to happen to me.

That's the big difference between you and me. You flaunt your
arrogance and "it will never happen to me" attitude with every line
of text you post. That kind of presumed 'specialness' makes people
watch you for your inevitable screwup.

Jack wrote:

>
> You are exactly right. Good thinking. Sure hope no one ran out and
> bought a new saw for each family member... Close one....

I like to do my part...

>
> Now, do you think Tsaws with power feeders are safer than w/o a power
> feeder.

I don't know. Might be worth getting a few cases of hot dogs and running
some tests to see.

> Do you think anyone buying a (new) router table or shaper
> should also have to buy a power feeder, or should the gov't let them
> risk mangleation at the expense of the rest of us paying for their
> socialized medicine to repair the inevitable damage?

Ha - thought you'd catch me with that one, didn't ya? Clever, but you
didn't slip one by me that time Jack. The answer is of course the
government should let them risk mangleation - after all that would be a
government decision, and we all know that the government knows best and does
what's best for all of us... right?


--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 1/24/2012 11:16 AM, Han wrote:
> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 1/24/2012 9:08 AM, Jack wrote:
>>> On 1/23/2012 6:33 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 1/23/2012 5:03 PM, Jack wrote:
>>>>> On 1/21/2012 6:25 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You guys are wise. IMO, only a fool, with a single employee who's
>>>>>> job description included operating a table saw, would not have a
>>>>>> SawStop today.
>>>
>>>>> Don't need no steenking saw stops...
>>>>>
>>>>> Jack
>>>>
>>>> Now I will have to say to trip the mechanism that many times you
>>>> also will have factor in positive trips that actually saved a finger
>>>> or hand.
>>>>
>>>> Lets say one time in 50, at Approximately $25,000~$35,000 per
>>>> incident to cover emergency surgery and reconstruction and
>>>> rehabilitation and perhaps a prosthetic and lost wages, TIMES 8
>>>> equals $200,000~$280,000,
>>>>
>>>> Yes cheap at 50 times the price.
>>>
>>> Well I don't have one, nor a blade guard, nor a rive, and after 50
>>> years of doing this, never nicked one fing-ee. Nor did either of my
>>> brothers, nor did my dad. At my age, I would think owning one might
>>> be a good idea, but, I don't need no steenking gov't dick head
>>> mandating I buy one with a every new saw purchase.
>>
>> Jack, you sound exactly like all the people that eventually did have
>> an accident. Almost verbatim your words came out of their mouths.
>> The longer you go with out having an accident the closer you are to
>> having one.
>
> Not true. If the chances of anyone having an accident are X, then having
> had no accidents doesn't increase your chances. That's elementary in
> statistics. Roll 2 dice. You can calculate the chances for snake-eyes,
> if nobody tampered with the dice. The next time you roll those same
> dice, the chances for snake eyes are the same. Now, the chances for
> rolling snake eyes some time increase with the number of rolls allowed.
>
>>> To be really safe, the gov't would have to mandate we stay on the
>>> couch, with a remote so we don't slip on an empty gov't approved
>>> potato chip bag on the way to the gov't controlled TV.
>>
>> To be really safe, don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

Ummmm do you really believe that some one can do wood working for 50
years and and "never nick one finger?
I believer that "x" is actually greater than zero.

Lets be real here.

On 1/24/2012 10:55 AM, Jack wrote:
> On 1/23/2012 11:41 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Bill wrote:
>
>>> I know riving knifes are now required to be **UL Compliant**.
>>> I do not know the significance of this compliancy (perhaps someone can
>>> address this), but it's not hard for me to imagine what the next
>>> requirement of UL Coompliancy could be for table saws.
>>
>> UL compliance only pertains to newly purchased items. It has nothing
>> to do
>> with existing products. As for new compliancy requirments - that's for
>> new
>> stuff. When was the last time the UL Police showed up at your house to
>> inspect and demand an update to your 20 year old toaster or steam iron?
>
> How about THIS Mike. Someone *kills* you for using too many capital
> letters. Your wife sells your Tsaw to some clown on Craigslist. He chops
> off his arm because your saw is not "UL" compliant and has no guard, no
> riving knife, no SS tech.
>
> Of course he sues your widowed wife for $12000000000000 dollars because
> of her negligence to have readily available safety crap installed before
> selling you the damned beast!!!!!!! He claims he is having trouble
> whacking off with one hand, big a dick as he is. Your widow refuses to
> give him a hand, ergo the large $suit.
>
> He wins, hand down...
>
> Jack
> A boiled egg is hard to beat.

And that example is exactly why the government is going to end up taking
care of people that make those kind of comments.
You make a pretty good defense for SawStop.

On 1/24/2012 9:08 AM, Jack wrote:
> On 1/23/2012 6:33 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/23/2012 5:03 PM, Jack wrote:
>>> On 1/21/2012 6:25 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Yes, it is expensive to set it off. Cartridge and blade.
>>>>
>>>> You guys are wise. IMO, only a fool, with a single employee who's job
>>>> description included operating a table saw, would not have a SawStop
>>>> today.
>
>>> Don't need no steenking saw stops...
>>>
>>> Jack
>>
>> Now I will have to say to trip the mechanism that many times you also
>> will have factor in positive trips that actually saved a finger or hand.
>>
>> Lets say one time in 50, at Approximately $25,000~$35,000 per incident
>> to cover emergency surgery and reconstruction and rehabilitation and
>> perhaps a prosthetic and lost wages, TIMES 8 equals $200,000~$280,000,
>>
>> Yes cheap at 50 times the price.
>
> Well I don't have one, nor a blade guard, nor a rive, and after 50 years
> of doing this, never nicked one fing-ee. Nor did either of my brothers,
> nor did my dad. At my age, I would think owning one might be a good
> idea, but, I don't need no steenking gov't dick head mandating I buy one
> with a every new saw purchase.

Jack, you sound exactly like all the people that eventually did have an
accident. Almost verbatim your words came out of their mouths.
The longer you go with out having an accident the closer you are to
having one.

>
> To be really safe, the gov't would have to mandate we stay on the couch,
> with a remote so we don't slip on an empty gov't approved potato chip
> bag on the way to the gov't controlled TV.

To be really safe, don't cut off your nose to spite your face.