Any of you guys ever make and lay flooring? I've got access to a lot of ash
(victims of the Emerald Ash Borer) and can make cants or boards in the woods
with my Alaskan Chainsaw Mill... (Recall the MS 461 I got from Craig's List
back in January). Thus the cost of the raw materials is my time and chainsaw
consumables. The rest is shop work... I'm thinking about doing a random
width floor for my house... say nominal 4, 5 and 6 inch boards. I'm
wondering, however, about nailing it down... will edge nailing 6" floor
boards like the typical strip floor suffice or does it demand face nailing?
BTW, I've been milling boards up to 29" wide with the MS 461 using a
Granberg mill and a 36" bar... Works pretty well and a 29" x 10.5' board is
pretty impressive... two of them covers more square footage than a sheet of
plywood! ;~)
"Leon" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
<Something to think about, my experience with dead dried wood is that it
>tends to be extra hard and tough on the tooling.
This stuff isn't bad... dead less than a year. I cut half a 10.5' long 30"
DBH log into 4/4 boards without having to resharpen the chain. Taking the
bark off helps a lot... bark is full of grit.
On Fri, 2 Sep 2016 20:21:55 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>On 9/2/2016 5:05 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>> "John McCoy" wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>> "John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>
>>>> BTW, I've been milling boards up to 29" wide with the MS 461 using a
>>>> Granberg mill and a 36" bar... Works pretty well and a 29" x 10.5'
>>>> board is pretty impressive... two of them covers more square footage
>>>> than a sheet of plywood! ;~)
>>
>>
>>> Back in the day, a gloat like that on the wreck would
>>> have been followed by a chorus of "you suck!".
>>
>>> Have you succeeded in drying any of those wide boards?
>>> I'd expect them to split longwise as they dry.
>>
>> The boards were milled from standing dead ash trees and were pretty well
>> dried already... That said, I did expect the ones with pith to split...
>> but I'm sawing them down the pith while stickering so I have control
>> over the split. I'd never use those boards whole anyway... don't look
>> good to me.
>>
>>
>>
>Something to think about, my experience with dead dried wood is that it
>tends to be extra hard and tough on the tooling.
Aged dry elm is like a rock - and aged dry ash is just about as
bad!!! I built my shed with hardwood 2X from sheet metal pallets -
had to drill for virtually every nail!!
"dadiOH" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>"John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> Yes, T&G... make my shaper earns it's keep!
>Don't forget that neither the bottom edges nor the tongue edge touch the
>adjacent board; i.e, the tongue is less wide than the groove is deep and
>there is a bevel below the tongue (and/or on the adjacent plank).
Here is an example of the flooring cutters for shapers...
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Flooring-Cutter-Set-Tongue-Groove-3-4-Bore/C2307?utm_campaign=zPage
They create an off set tongue, back beveled edge, etc. These combined with a
stock feeder would make the milling pretty straight forward though likely it
would get boring!
On Thursday, September 1, 2016 at 1:49:05 PM UTC-5, bnw...
I still don't know how one would go about doing the grooving on the=20
> > bottom surface that seems to be a standard fixture on commercial floori=
ng=20
> > in a home shop. Many passes through a router table? Stacked round-nose=
=20
> > cutters on the shaper and feed on edge?
>=20
> I have seen where the relief cut on the underside has been a simple saw k=
erf (or more depending on width of the board) maybe 1/8" --> 3/16" deep, ra=
ther than plowing out a wide groove...
I've never cut relief cuts and don't know if this is safe.... a few thought=
s off the top of my head.
Load 2-3 blades (7 1/4" blades?), spaced apart, on the table saw. ....OR u=
se dado blades, spaced apart. Not sure if they could be secured properly.
Also, I suppose there might be a fluting type bit, but profiled for those r=
elief cuts, so that more than one "kerf" can be cut, at a time. I have an =
fluting bit that cuts three 1/2" flutes, at a time.
Also, I suppose one can grind/profile a set of jointer blades... make the a=
ppropriate knotches.... and run the boards through the jointer.... slower t=
han normal feed? For 1/8";3/16" deep cuts, 2 passes 1/16;3/32" at a time? =
I suppose this is the concept with dedicated moulder machines, as with ma=
king mouldings. But wonder if jointer blades are too brittle for this sor=
t of milling, that the "teeth" would chip off.
Sonny
On Thu, 1 Sep 2016 14:36:31 -0400, John McGaw <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 9/1/2016 12:26 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>
>>> On Wed, 31 Aug 2016 17:33:42 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>> consumables. The rest is shop work... I'm thinking about doing a random
>>>> width floor for my house... say nominal 4, 5 and 6 inch boards. I'm
>>>> wondering, however, about nailing it down... will edge nailing 6" floor
>>>> boards like the typical strip floor suffice or does it demand face nailing?
>>
>>> T&G? Edge nail, with grooves on the back - just like "real" hardwood
>>> flooring.
>>
>> Yes, T&G... make my shaper earns it's keep!
>>
>
>If I was doing more than a little bit of flooring I'd definitely want to
>have a power feeder on all of the tools. In commercial applications
>virtually everything is automatic and uses custom tooling. In a home shop
>there would be the job of ripping, jointing, and planing to thickness
>before you even get around to the actual making of flooring. Amana makes a
>nice cutter set for the T&G but that is just a small bit of the work involved.
>
>In a factory it is basically a single pass through a machine which does it
>all, takes in sawn rough wood in one end and spits out T&G at the other
>end. I still don't know how one would go about doing the grooving on the
>bottom surface that seems to be a standard fixture on commercial flooring
>in a home shop. Many passes through a router table? Stacked round-nose
>cutters on the shaper and feed on edge?
the later sounds good
On Sun, 04 Sep 2016 10:44:18 -0500, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 09/03/2016 8:34 AM, krw wrote:
>...
>
>> What do you mean by "aged dry"? I have a quite a bit of ash that I've
>> had for over 30 years. It cuts like butter. Well, frozen butter. ;-)
>
>White ash group (includes white, green and some other less common
>species) have a tendency to form silicate deposits depending upon local
>soil conditions.
>
>There are a number of green ash for ornamentals in the yard here that
>unfortunately the emerald borers have managed to find...several have
>been killed. Sawing dead from them that has been standing for years is
>a real treat...sparks simply fly from a saw chain and it dulls a chain
>in a heartbeat; about as bad as just digging the bar into the ground...
>
>> I have 10 or 12 maple 2x10s that I got at the same time but I haven't
>> done anything with them for a long time.
>
>Maple varies tremendously in species as well; soft maple is quite easy
>to work although occasionally will leave a little fuzz after shaping
>while sugar maple/birds eye while gorgeous is a real workout...
This is pretty straight-grained sugar maple, complete with the tap
holes. The boards are just under 8' and *heavy*. The ash is a
feather, in comparison.
On Thursday, September 1, 2016 at 2:36:45 PM UTC-4, John McGaw wrote:
> On 9/1/2016 12:26 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
> > wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >
> >> On Wed, 31 Aug 2016 17:33:42 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>> consumables. The rest is shop work... I'm thinking about doing a random
> >>> width floor for my house... say nominal 4, 5 and 6 inch boards. I'm
> >>> wondering, however, about nailing it down... will edge nailing 6" floor
> >>> boards like the typical strip floor suffice or does it demand face nailing?
> >
> >> T&G? Edge nail, with grooves on the back - just like "real" hardwood
> >> flooring.
> >
> > Yes, T&G... make my shaper earns it's keep!
> >
>
> If I was doing more than a little bit of flooring I'd definitely want to
> have a power feeder on all of the tools. In commercial applications
> virtually everything is automatic and uses custom tooling. In a home shop
> there would be the job of ripping, jointing, and planing to thickness
> before you even get around to the actual making of flooring. Amana makes a
> nice cutter set for the T&G but that is just a small bit of the work involved.
>
> In a factory it is basically a single pass through a machine which does it
> all, takes in sawn rough wood in one end and spits out T&G at the other
> end. I still don't know how one would go about doing the grooving on the
> bottom surface that seems to be a standard fixture on commercial flooring
> in a home shop. Many passes through a router table? Stacked round-nose
> cutters on the shaper and feed on edge?
I have seen where the relief cut on the underside has been a simple saw kerf (or more depending on width of the board) maybe 1/8" --> 3/16" deep, rather than plowing out a wide groove...
On Sun, 4 Sep 2016 00:01:45 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>>"old growth" timber was definitely more dense - and therefore harder
>>and stronger than "new" wood - buit the pallets were not likely old
>>growth wood.
>
>With pallet wood you sometimes run into "heat treated" wood, a process that
>goes beyond "kiln dried" as a means of killing insects, mold, fungus, etc.
>I tried working with some heat treated pine that could be had cheaply and it
>was just awful... hard and brittle would be a good way to describe it. The
>heat treated wood was rough cut on one side and thickness planed on the
>other... I think it was intended for crating purposes.
>
>http://internationalshippingusa.com/ISPM_15_Rules.aspx
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISPM_15
>
>
>
Like I said. "baked"
On Wed, 31 Aug 2016 17:33:42 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Any of you guys ever make and lay flooring? I've got access to a lot of ash
>(victims of the Emerald Ash Borer) and can make cants or boards in the woods
>with my Alaskan Chainsaw Mill... (Recall the MS 461 I got from Craig's List
>back in January). Thus the cost of the raw materials is my time and chainsaw
>consumables. The rest is shop work... I'm thinking about doing a random
>width floor for my house... say nominal 4, 5 and 6 inch boards. I'm
>wondering, however, about nailing it down... will edge nailing 6" floor
>boards like the typical strip floor suffice or does it demand face nailing?
>
>BTW, I've been milling boards up to 29" wide with the MS 461 using a
>Granberg mill and a 36" bar... Works pretty well and a 29" x 10.5' board is
>pretty impressive... two of them covers more square footage than a sheet of
>plywood! ;~)
>
T&G? Edge nail, with grooves on the back - just like "real" hardwood
flooring.
"dadiOH" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>Don't forget that neither the bottom edges nor the tongue edge touch the
>adjacent board; i.e, the tongue is less wide than the groove is deep and
>there is a bevel below the tongue (and/or on the adjacent plank).
The T&G shaper cutters take care of those aspects of the job... I have no
intention of winging it!
wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>"old growth" timber was definitely more dense - and therefore harder
>and stronger than "new" wood - buit the pallets were not likely old
>growth wood.
With pallet wood you sometimes run into "heat treated" wood, a process that
goes beyond "kiln dried" as a means of killing insects, mold, fungus, etc.
I tried working with some heat treated pine that could be had cheaply and it
was just awful... hard and brittle would be a good way to describe it. The
heat treated wood was rough cut on one side and thickness planed on the
other... I think it was intended for crating purposes.
http://internationalshippingusa.com/ISPM_15_Rules.aspx
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISPM_15
"Sonny" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>Also, I suppose one can grind/profile a set of jointer blades... make the
>appropriate knotches.... and run the boards through the jointer.... slower
>than >normal feed? For 1/8";3/16" deep cuts, 2 passes 1/16;3/32" at a
>time? I suppose this is the concept with dedicated moulder machines, as
>with >making mouldings. But wonder if jointer blades are too brittle for
>this sort of milling, that the "teeth" would chip off.
I've got a molding machine so would anticipate installing cutters to do the
relief on the bottom of the flooring strips...
I've watched YouTube videos of people using alternative methods and I'd not
even start the project if I had to run pieces through 3, 4, 5+ times to do a
task like this (or create the tongue and groove for that matter). I may have
grand ideas but I'm not a masochist! ;~)
"krw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 15:43:49 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>>On 9/3/2016 8:34 AM, krw wrote:
>>> On Fri, 02 Sep 2016 23:05:55 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 2 Sep 2016 20:21:55 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 9/2/2016 5:05 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>>>>>> "John McCoy" wrote in message
>>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>>>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> BTW, I've been milling boards up to 29" wide with the MS 461 using
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> Granberg mill and a 36" bar... Works pretty well and a 29" x 10.5'
>>>>>>>> board is pretty impressive... two of them covers more square
>>>>>>>> footage
>>>>>>>> than a sheet of plywood! ;~)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Back in the day, a gloat like that on the wreck would
>>>>>>> have been followed by a chorus of "you suck!".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have you succeeded in drying any of those wide boards?
>>>>>>> I'd expect them to split longwise as they dry.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The boards were milled from standing dead ash trees and were pretty
>>>>>> well
>>>>>> dried already... That said, I did expect the ones with pith to
>>>>>> split...
>>>>>> but I'm sawing them down the pith while stickering so I have control
>>>>>> over the split. I'd never use those boards whole anyway... don't look
>>>>>> good to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Something to think about, my experience with dead dried wood is that
>>>>> it
>>>>> tends to be extra hard and tough on the tooling.
>>>> Aged dry elm is like a rock - and aged dry ash is just about as
>>>> bad!!! I built my shed with hardwood 2X from sheet metal pallets -
>>>> had to drill for virtually every nail!!
>>>
>>> What do you mean by "aged dry"? I have a quite a bit of ash that I've
>>> had for over 30 years. It cuts like butter. Well, frozen butter. ;-)
>>> I have 10 or 12 maple 2x10s that I got at the same time but I haven't
>>> done anything with them for a long time.
>>>
>>
>>
>>Some woods simply get harder as they age. About 20 years ago I
>>refinished and re-glued the pieces in the top that the glue has failed
>>on. Running those boards through the saw to clean off the old glue and
>>then through the jointer resulted in dull knives almost immediately and
>>only in that 3/4" location on the blades. This piece was supposedly
>>about 60 years old at the time.
>
> I wonder if the wood wasn't better/harder than what we get now.
I wonder if the [foreign-made] boxed nails we get aren't softer. Back in
the late 70s and 80s I had to pre-drill old-growth pine trim before
hand-nailing 4p and 6p finish nails.
Dave in SoTex
wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>On Thu, 1 Sep 2016 14:36:31 -0400, John McGaw <[email protected]> wrote:
>>In a factory it is basically a single pass through a machine which does it
>>all, takes in sawn rough wood in one end and spits out T&G at the other
>>end. I still don't know how one would go about doing the grooving on the
>>bottom surface that seems to be a standard fixture on commercial flooring
>>in a home shop. Many passes through a router table? Stacked round-nose
>>cutters on the shaper and feed on edge?
>the later sounds good
I can run them through my molder set up with backing knives... One pass.
"HerHusband" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>> Any of you guys ever make and lay flooring? I've got access to a lot
> > of ash (victims of the Emerald Ash Borer) and can make cants or boards
> > in the woods with my Alaskan Chainsaw Mill... (Recall the MS 461 I got
> > from Craig's List back in January). Thus the cost of the raw materials
> > is my time and chainsaw consumables.
> Look up Matt Cremona on YouTube. He mills his own lumber too. A short
> time
> back he milled up his own flooring and installed it in a room of his
> house.
> Huge project, very impressive.
I'd seen Matt's videos... found them while exploring the possibility of
doing it.
On 9/3/2016 8:34 AM, krw wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Sep 2016 23:05:55 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 2 Sep 2016 20:21:55 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/2/2016 5:05 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>>>> "John McCoy" wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>>> "John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> BTW, I've been milling boards up to 29" wide with the MS 461 using a
>>>>>> Granberg mill and a 36" bar... Works pretty well and a 29" x 10.5'
>>>>>> board is pretty impressive... two of them covers more square footage
>>>>>> than a sheet of plywood! ;~)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Back in the day, a gloat like that on the wreck would
>>>>> have been followed by a chorus of "you suck!".
>>>>
>>>>> Have you succeeded in drying any of those wide boards?
>>>>> I'd expect them to split longwise as they dry.
>>>>
>>>> The boards were milled from standing dead ash trees and were pretty well
>>>> dried already... That said, I did expect the ones with pith to split...
>>>> but I'm sawing them down the pith while stickering so I have control
>>>> over the split. I'd never use those boards whole anyway... don't look
>>>> good to me.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Something to think about, my experience with dead dried wood is that it
>>> tends to be extra hard and tough on the tooling.
>> Aged dry elm is like a rock - and aged dry ash is just about as
>> bad!!! I built my shed with hardwood 2X from sheet metal pallets -
>> had to drill for virtually every nail!!
>
> What do you mean by "aged dry"? I have a quite a bit of ash that I've
> had for over 30 years. It cuts like butter. Well, frozen butter. ;-)
> I have 10 or 12 maple 2x10s that I got at the same time but I haven't
> done anything with them for a long time.
>
Some woods simply get harder as they age. About 20 years ago I
refinished and re-glued the pieces in the top that the glue has failed
on. Running those boards through the saw to clean off the old glue and
then through the jointer resulted in dull knives almost immediately and
only in that 3/4" location on the blades. This piece was supposedly
about 60 years old at the time.
"Electric Comet" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>On Wed, 31 Aug 2016 17:33:42 -0400
>"John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Any of you guys ever make and lay flooring? I've got access to a lot
>not sure but i think flooring is usually kiln dried
>but maybe it depends on the species
I'm sure in a factory environment it would be... I'm using standing dead
ash that is pretty dry already and I have the materials to create a solar
kiln. I figure that by the time I get all the wood cut that the earliest cut
stuff will be ready for machining.
>> Granberg mill and a 36" bar... Works pretty well and a 29" x 10.5'
>> board is pretty impressive... two of them covers more square footage
>> than a sheet of plywood! ;~)
>looks better too i bet
>sounds like you almost have your wood supply set up from end to end
Pretty much... though being part of a large woodworking club has given me
access to wood as needed over the years. Now I'm simply going to another
level. It makes it possible to grab the odd urban tree that is offered up
that I passed on in the past. It's kind of sad to think of the cherry and
walnut trees I let get cut up into firewood in the past... Taking Game of
Logging chainsaw training opened my eyes to a lot of possibilities. Also,
seeing a video on mounting a winch on an Alaskan mill made the viability of
milling inaccessible large trees realistic... Pushing a chainsaw mill
through a large log is brutal work but I can twirl the winch handle with one
finger due to the gear reduction and get a better result (smoother and more
consistent cut).
>i am guessing that you probably plant trees to
>am i right
Not exactly, but I have watched the subject trees grow since they were not
much more than saplings so it's sort of true... ;~) I suppose that there
are a few trees I planted 40+ years ago that could someday end up coming
down under my saw. A maple about 32" DBH and a polar about 14" DBH come to
mind as they have outgrown their places.
> Any of you guys ever make and lay flooring? I've got access to a lot
> of ash (victims of the Emerald Ash Borer) and can make cants or boards
> in the woods with my Alaskan Chainsaw Mill... (Recall the MS 461 I got
> from Craig's List back in January). Thus the cost of the raw materials
> is my time and chainsaw consumables.
Look up Matt Cremona on YouTube. He mills his own lumber too. A short time
back he milled up his own flooring and installed it in a room of his house.
Huge project, very impressive.
Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com
"John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> BTW, I've been milling boards up to 29" wide with the MS 461 using a
> Granberg mill and a 36" bar... Works pretty well and a 29" x 10.5'
> board is pretty impressive... two of them covers more square footage
> than a sheet of plywood! ;~)
Back in the day, a gloat like that on the wreck would
have been followed by a chorus of "you suck!".
Have you succeeded in drying any of those wide boards?
I'd expect them to split longwise as they dry.
John
"John McCoy" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>> BTW, I've been milling boards up to 29" wide with the MS 461 using a
>> Granberg mill and a 36" bar... Works pretty well and a 29" x 10.5'
>> board is pretty impressive... two of them covers more square footage
>> than a sheet of plywood! ;~)
> Back in the day, a gloat like that on the wreck would
> have been followed by a chorus of "you suck!".
> Have you succeeded in drying any of those wide boards?
> I'd expect them to split longwise as they dry.
The boards were milled from standing dead ash trees and were pretty well
dried already... That said, I did expect the ones with pith to split... but
I'm sawing them down the pith while stickering so I have control over the
split. I'd never use those boards whole anyway... don't look good to me.
On 9/1/2016 12:26 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>> On Wed, 31 Aug 2016 17:33:42 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> consumables. The rest is shop work... I'm thinking about doing a random
>>> width floor for my house... say nominal 4, 5 and 6 inch boards. I'm
>>> wondering, however, about nailing it down... will edge nailing 6" floor
>>> boards like the typical strip floor suffice or does it demand face nailing?
>
>> T&G? Edge nail, with grooves on the back - just like "real" hardwood
>> flooring.
>
> Yes, T&G... make my shaper earns it's keep!
>
If I was doing more than a little bit of flooring I'd definitely want to
have a power feeder on all of the tools. In commercial applications
virtually everything is automatic and uses custom tooling. In a home shop
there would be the job of ripping, jointing, and planing to thickness
before you even get around to the actual making of flooring. Amana makes a
nice cutter set for the T&G but that is just a small bit of the work involved.
In a factory it is basically a single pass through a machine which does it
all, takes in sawn rough wood in one end and spits out T&G at the other
end. I still don't know how one would go about doing the grooving on the
bottom surface that seems to be a standard fixture on commercial flooring
in a home shop. Many passes through a router table? Stacked round-nose
cutters on the shaper and feed on edge?
On Sat, 03 Sep 2016 09:34:30 -0400, krw <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Fri, 02 Sep 2016 23:05:55 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 2 Sep 2016 20:21:55 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>
>>>On 9/2/2016 5:05 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>>>> "John McCoy" wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>>> "John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> BTW, I've been milling boards up to 29" wide with the MS 461 using a
>>>>>> Granberg mill and a 36" bar... Works pretty well and a 29" x 10.5'
>>>>>> board is pretty impressive... two of them covers more square footage
>>>>>> than a sheet of plywood! ;~)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Back in the day, a gloat like that on the wreck would
>>>>> have been followed by a chorus of "you suck!".
>>>>
>>>>> Have you succeeded in drying any of those wide boards?
>>>>> I'd expect them to split longwise as they dry.
>>>>
>>>> The boards were milled from standing dead ash trees and were pretty well
>>>> dried already... That said, I did expect the ones with pith to split...
>>>> but I'm sawing them down the pith while stickering so I have control
>>>> over the split. I'd never use those boards whole anyway... don't look
>>>> good to me.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Something to think about, my experience with dead dried wood is that it
>>>tends to be extra hard and tough on the tooling.
>> Aged dry elm is like a rock - and aged dry ash is just about as
>>bad!!! I built my shed with hardwood 2X from sheet metal pallets -
>>had to drill for virtually every nail!!
>
>What do you mean by "aged dry"? I have a quite a bit of ash that I've
>had for over 30 years. It cuts like butter. Well, frozen butter. ;-)
>I have 10 or 12 maple 2x10s that I got at the same time but I haven't
>done anything with them for a long time.
These were10 foot sheet metal palets that had been sitting in the
hot sun for 3 or 4 months before I got them. They would have been kiln
dried (baked) to jany ctitters before being made into pallets. They
cut fine with a carbide blade - but don't take kindlyto being
punctured by a nail. This is mixed hardwood. I suspect mostly birch,
ash beech, and hard maple but I don't know for sure.
On Fri, 02 Sep 2016 23:05:55 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>On Fri, 2 Sep 2016 20:21:55 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>>On 9/2/2016 5:05 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>>> "John McCoy" wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>> "John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> BTW, I've been milling boards up to 29" wide with the MS 461 using a
>>>>> Granberg mill and a 36" bar... Works pretty well and a 29" x 10.5'
>>>>> board is pretty impressive... two of them covers more square footage
>>>>> than a sheet of plywood! ;~)
>>>
>>>
>>>> Back in the day, a gloat like that on the wreck would
>>>> have been followed by a chorus of "you suck!".
>>>
>>>> Have you succeeded in drying any of those wide boards?
>>>> I'd expect them to split longwise as they dry.
>>>
>>> The boards were milled from standing dead ash trees and were pretty well
>>> dried already... That said, I did expect the ones with pith to split...
>>> but I'm sawing them down the pith while stickering so I have control
>>> over the split. I'd never use those boards whole anyway... don't look
>>> good to me.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Something to think about, my experience with dead dried wood is that it
>>tends to be extra hard and tough on the tooling.
> Aged dry elm is like a rock - and aged dry ash is just about as
>bad!!! I built my shed with hardwood 2X from sheet metal pallets -
>had to drill for virtually every nail!!
What do you mean by "aged dry"? I have a quite a bit of ash that I've
had for over 30 years. It cuts like butter. Well, frozen butter. ;-)
I have 10 or 12 maple 2x10s that I got at the same time but I haven't
done anything with them for a long time.
On 9/3/2016 3:56 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
> "Leon" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> Some woods simply get harder as they age. About 20 years ago I
>> refinished and re-glued the pieces in the top that the glue has failed
>> on. Running those boards through the saw to clean off the old glue
>> and then through the jointer resulted in dull knives almost
>> immediately and only in that 3/4" location on the blades. This piece
>> was supposedly about 60 years old at the time.
>
> My first experience with that phenomena was with Douglas Fir floor
> joists... cutting, drilling, nailing them was a real chore 20 years in
> compared to when they were new.
One has to wonder if the finish that soaks in might have something to do
with that. Although I have cut up some old oak limbs with a chain saw
and the blade dulled quite quickly, 6~7 4" cuts.
On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 16:56:22 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"Leon" wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>>Some woods simply get harder as they age. About 20 years ago I refinished
>>and re-glued the pieces in the top that the glue has failed on. Running
>>those boards through the saw to clean off the old glue and then through the
>>jointer resulted in dull knives almost immediately and only in that 3/4"
>>location on the blades. This piece was supposedly about 60 years old at
>>the time.
>
>My first experience with that phenomena was with Douglas Fir floor joists...
>cutting, drilling, nailing them was a real chore 20 years in compared to
>when they were new.
When the douglas fir granaries were but into the barn all the wood
was cut with a hand saw.IT WOULD TAKE A REAL MAN WITH A GOOD HANDSAW
TO CUT IT UP TODAY!!!
"John McGaw" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>If I was doing more than a little bit of flooring I'd definitely want to
>have a power feeder on all of the tools. In commercial applications
A power feeder is part of the plan... I can use it on the table saw, band
saw, jointer and shaper... The molder/planer will be used for thicknessing
and the backing relief and that has it's own feed.
"John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>>On Wed, 31 Aug 2016 17:33:42 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>consumables. The rest is shop work... I'm thinking about doing a random
>>>width floor for my house... say nominal 4, 5 and 6 inch boards. I'm
>>>wondering, however, about nailing it down... will edge nailing 6" floor
>>>boards like the typical strip floor suffice or does it demand face
>>>nailing?
>
>>T&G? Edge nail, with grooves on the back - just like "real" hardwood
>>flooring.
>
> Yes, T&G... make my shaper earns it's keep!
Don't forget that neither the bottom edges nor the tongue edge touch the
adjacent board; i.e, the tongue is less wide than the groove is deep and
there is a bevel below the tongue (and/or on the adjacent plank).
On Wed, 31 Aug 2016 17:33:42 -0400
"John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Any of you guys ever make and lay flooring? I've got access to a lot
not sure but i think flooring is usually kiln dried
but maybe it depends on the species
> Granberg mill and a 36" bar... Works pretty well and a 29" x 10.5'
> board is pretty impressive... two of them covers more square footage
> than a sheet of plywood! ;~)
looks better too i bet
sounds like you almost have your wood supply set up from end to end
i am guessing that you probably plant trees to
am i right
On 09/03/2016 8:34 AM, krw wrote:
...
> What do you mean by "aged dry"? I have a quite a bit of ash that I've
> had for over 30 years. It cuts like butter. Well, frozen butter. ;-)
White ash group (includes white, green and some other less common
species) have a tendency to form silicate deposits depending upon local
soil conditions.
There are a number of green ash for ornamentals in the yard here that
unfortunately the emerald borers have managed to find...several have
been killed. Sawing dead from them that has been standing for years is
a real treat...sparks simply fly from a saw chain and it dulls a chain
in a heartbeat; about as bad as just digging the bar into the ground...
> I have 10 or 12 maple 2x10s that I got at the same time but I haven't
> done anything with them for a long time.
Maple varies tremendously in species as well; soft maple is quite easy
to work although occasionally will leave a little fuzz after shaping
while sugar maple/birds eye while gorgeous is a real workout...
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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On 9/2/2016 5:05 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
> "John McCoy" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> "John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>
>
>>> BTW, I've been milling boards up to 29" wide with the MS 461 using a
>>> Granberg mill and a 36" bar... Works pretty well and a 29" x 10.5'
>>> board is pretty impressive... two of them covers more square footage
>>> than a sheet of plywood! ;~)
>
>
>> Back in the day, a gloat like that on the wreck would
>> have been followed by a chorus of "you suck!".
>
>> Have you succeeded in drying any of those wide boards?
>> I'd expect them to split longwise as they dry.
>
> The boards were milled from standing dead ash trees and were pretty well
> dried already... That said, I did expect the ones with pith to split...
> but I'm sawing them down the pith while stickering so I have control
> over the split. I'd never use those boards whole anyway... don't look
> good to me.
>
>
>
Something to think about, my experience with dead dried wood is that it
tends to be extra hard and tough on the tooling.
wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>On Wed, 31 Aug 2016 17:33:42 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>>consumables. The rest is shop work... I'm thinking about doing a random
>>width floor for my house... say nominal 4, 5 and 6 inch boards. I'm
>>wondering, however, about nailing it down... will edge nailing 6" floor
>>boards like the typical strip floor suffice or does it demand face
>>nailing?
>T&G? Edge nail, with grooves on the back - just like "real" hardwood
>flooring.
Yes, T&G... make my shaper earns it's keep!
On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 15:43:49 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>On 9/3/2016 8:34 AM, krw wrote:
>> On Fri, 02 Sep 2016 23:05:55 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 2 Sep 2016 20:21:55 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 9/2/2016 5:05 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>>>>> "John McCoy" wrote in message
>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>
>>>>>> "John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> BTW, I've been milling boards up to 29" wide with the MS 461 using a
>>>>>>> Granberg mill and a 36" bar... Works pretty well and a 29" x 10.5'
>>>>>>> board is pretty impressive... two of them covers more square footage
>>>>>>> than a sheet of plywood! ;~)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Back in the day, a gloat like that on the wreck would
>>>>>> have been followed by a chorus of "you suck!".
>>>>>
>>>>>> Have you succeeded in drying any of those wide boards?
>>>>>> I'd expect them to split longwise as they dry.
>>>>>
>>>>> The boards were milled from standing dead ash trees and were pretty well
>>>>> dried already... That said, I did expect the ones with pith to split...
>>>>> but I'm sawing them down the pith while stickering so I have control
>>>>> over the split. I'd never use those boards whole anyway... don't look
>>>>> good to me.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Something to think about, my experience with dead dried wood is that it
>>>> tends to be extra hard and tough on the tooling.
>>> Aged dry elm is like a rock - and aged dry ash is just about as
>>> bad!!! I built my shed with hardwood 2X from sheet metal pallets -
>>> had to drill for virtually every nail!!
>>
>> What do you mean by "aged dry"? I have a quite a bit of ash that I've
>> had for over 30 years. It cuts like butter. Well, frozen butter. ;-)
>> I have 10 or 12 maple 2x10s that I got at the same time but I haven't
>> done anything with them for a long time.
>>
>
>
>Some woods simply get harder as they age. About 20 years ago I
>refinished and re-glued the pieces in the top that the glue has failed
>on. Running those boards through the saw to clean off the old glue and
>then through the jointer resulted in dull knives almost immediately and
>only in that 3/4" location on the blades. This piece was supposedly
>about 60 years old at the time.
I wonder if the wood wasn't better/harder than what we get now.
On Sat, 03 Sep 2016 20:08:29 -0400, krw <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 15:43:49 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>>On 9/3/2016 8:34 AM, krw wrote:
>>> On Fri, 02 Sep 2016 23:05:55 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 2 Sep 2016 20:21:55 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 9/2/2016 5:05 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>>>>>> "John McCoy" wrote in message
>>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>>>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> BTW, I've been milling boards up to 29" wide with the MS 461 using a
>>>>>>>> Granberg mill and a 36" bar... Works pretty well and a 29" x 10.5'
>>>>>>>> board is pretty impressive... two of them covers more square footage
>>>>>>>> than a sheet of plywood! ;~)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Back in the day, a gloat like that on the wreck would
>>>>>>> have been followed by a chorus of "you suck!".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have you succeeded in drying any of those wide boards?
>>>>>>> I'd expect them to split longwise as they dry.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The boards were milled from standing dead ash trees and were pretty well
>>>>>> dried already... That said, I did expect the ones with pith to split...
>>>>>> but I'm sawing them down the pith while stickering so I have control
>>>>>> over the split. I'd never use those boards whole anyway... don't look
>>>>>> good to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Something to think about, my experience with dead dried wood is that it
>>>>> tends to be extra hard and tough on the tooling.
>>>> Aged dry elm is like a rock - and aged dry ash is just about as
>>>> bad!!! I built my shed with hardwood 2X from sheet metal pallets -
>>>> had to drill for virtually every nail!!
>>>
>>> What do you mean by "aged dry"? I have a quite a bit of ash that I've
>>> had for over 30 years. It cuts like butter. Well, frozen butter. ;-)
>>> I have 10 or 12 maple 2x10s that I got at the same time but I haven't
>>> done anything with them for a long time.
>>>
>>
>>
>>Some woods simply get harder as they age. About 20 years ago I
>>refinished and re-glued the pieces in the top that the glue has failed
>>on. Running those boards through the saw to clean off the old glue and
>>then through the jointer resulted in dull knives almost immediately and
>>only in that 3/4" location on the blades. This piece was supposedly
>>about 60 years old at the time.
>
>I wonder if the wood wasn't better/harder than what we get now.
"old growth" timber was definitely more dense - and therefore harder
and stronger than "new" wood - buit the pallets were not likely old
growth wood.
On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 16:03:26 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>On 9/3/2016 3:56 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>> "Leon" wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>> Some woods simply get harder as they age. About 20 years ago I
>>> refinished and re-glued the pieces in the top that the glue has failed
>>> on. Running those boards through the saw to clean off the old glue
>>> and then through the jointer resulted in dull knives almost
>>> immediately and only in that 3/4" location on the blades. This piece
>>> was supposedly about 60 years old at the time.
>>
>> My first experience with that phenomena was with Douglas Fir floor
>> joists... cutting, drilling, nailing them was a real chore 20 years in
>> compared to when they were new.
>
>
>One has to wonder if the finish that soaks in might have something to do
>with that. Although I have cut up some old oak limbs with a chain saw
>and the blade dulled quite quickly, 6~7 4" cuts.
No finish on the pallets 0r the gramaries.
"Leon" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>Some woods simply get harder as they age. About 20 years ago I refinished
>and re-glued the pieces in the top that the glue has failed on. Running
>those boards through the saw to clean off the old glue and then through the
>jointer resulted in dull knives almost immediately and only in that 3/4"
>location on the blades. This piece was supposedly about 60 years old at
>the time.
My first experience with that phenomena was with Douglas Fir floor joists...
cutting, drilling, nailing them was a real chore 20 years in compared to
when they were new.