L

10/12/2008 2:35 PM

If you make toys...

In August the Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act was passed as a
reaction to the wonderful garbage China has been sending us in the
form of lead painted toys. Unfortunately Uncle Sam, in all his
infinite wisdom, has overreacted with a law that it is completely
impossible for any small business (that's you) to comply with. I
know, you're shocked.

I encourage you to investigate the law and contact your
representatives.

Some links:
http://www.cpsc.gov/about/cpsia/cpsia.html
http://www.handmadetoyalliance.org/


-Kevin


This topic has 72 replies

CC

"Curran Copeland"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

11/12/2008 2:08 PM


<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:b368617a-3891-40a3-8782-1fed284f0f0f@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> In August the Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act was passed as a
> reaction to the wonderful garbage China has been sending us in the
> form of lead painted toys. Unfortunately Uncle Sam, in all his
> infinite wisdom, has overreacted with a law that it is completely
> impossible for any small business (that's you) to comply with. I
> know, you're shocked.
>
> I encourage you to investigate the law and contact your
> representatives.
>
> Some links:
> http://www.cpsc.gov/about/cpsia/cpsia.html
> http://www.handmadetoyalliance.org/
>
>
> -Kevin
I have spent the morning looking into this legisitation and have been told
by one senator's office that they are two busy to talk to me and by a number
of government that there is no one there who can help me, please leave a
message or I have gotten answering machines that can not take messages
because they are to full of unanswered messages. Makes me wonder what my
taxes are going for, oh yeah I remember for the rich to get richer.

BB

Bored Borg

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

11/12/2008 4:59 PM

On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 22:35:04 +0000, [email protected] wrote
(in article
<b368617a-3891-40a3-8782-1fed284f0f0f@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com>):

> In August the Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act was passed as a
> reaction to the wonderful garbage China has been sending us in the
> form of lead painted toys. Unfortunately Uncle Sam, in all his
> infinite wisdom, has overreacted with a law that it is completely
> impossible for any small business (that's you) to comply with. I
> know, you're shocked.
>
> I encourage you to investigate the law and contact your
> representatives.
>
> Some links:
> http://www.cpsc.gov/about/cpsia/cpsia.html
> http://www.handmadetoyalliance.org/
>
>
> -Kevin

This is beginning to sound like dear old Great Britain.

The politician's answer is always to make new laws rather than enforce the
ones we already have.

Politicians here never legislate to deal with _the problem_ they just pass
restrictive and constrictive laws to deal with a different, imagined
situation which they have hyped into existence and the legislation then,
maybe, sort of catches the problem indirectly. The huge wave of political
"concern" and media hype over owning knives, for example. They already did it
with guns (It is now illegal to train for an Olympic sport involving shooting
in Britain, yet there are shootings on the streets daily 'cos the ones doing
THAT sort of illegal stuff aren't bothered and the law would rather close
down a target shooting club than make sure that street gangs don't carry
guns)

Gun club members were never the cause of any problem. There has been
sufficient law to deal with illegal firearm use for a very vet long time, but
it is not enforced. That would cost money and involve the police going up
against the ant-social elements. Let's target everybody else instead...

The politician's answer is always to make new laws rather than enforce the
ones we already have.

Now penknives, Bowie, camping knives are all being vilified and made
illegal.. apart from the "ceremonial" swords, knives and daggers that Sikhs
carry, and guess what, even though such "ceremonial" weapons rank highly in
stabbings and woundings, they are not being touched while it'll soon be
totally illegal to go camping with a buck knife...

Lead paint?

When did a western manufacturer last use lead paint?

I've nothing against selling non-lethal toys generally but all this
sledgehammer to crack a walnut thinking makes my blood boil.
If you are going to paint a toy for sale locally, all you'd need to do,
logically, is use finish materials with a known COSHH (or whatever standard
you colonials use) certification rather than constantly re-inventing the
wheel at _every_ stage of the process.

To prevent the sale of lead-filled Chaiwanse pacifiers, spiky-eyed dolls and
arsenic-flavour candy bars, all you need do (broadly - I'm sure there are
detail problems to work out) is make the supply of such stuff illegal - with
massive fines for supply for resale - and have a bit of random testing. This
would push the onus onto the importers who would then have the incentive to
only import stuff that would pass through all the hoops and wouldn't affect
domestic manufacturers producing stuff with known ingredients.

The politician's answer is always to make new laws rather than enforce the
ones we already have.

But, as I said, politicians are unlikely to tackle the real problem. They
want to be seen to be apparently doing something so they can crow about it
but they'll make damn sure that any new legislation won't upset any apple
carts that they happen to be hitching a ride on and is, whatever else,
"politically correct" and won't offend any pressure groups with money or
"God" on their side. Damn everybody else.

BB

Bored Borg

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

18/12/2008 2:17 PM

On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 17:43:00 +0000, Curran Copeland wrote
(in article <[email protected]>):

>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:b368617a-3891-40a3-8782-1fed284f0f0f@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>> In August the Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act was passed as a
>> reaction to the wonderful garbage China has been sending us in the
>> form of lead painted toys. Unfortunately Uncle Sam, in all his
>> infinite wisdom, has overreacted with a law that it is completely
>> impossible for any small business (that's you) to comply with. I
>> know, you're shocked.
>>
>> I encourage you to investigate the law and contact your
>> representatives.
>>
>> Some links:
>> http://www.cpsc.gov/about/cpsia/cpsia.html
>> http://www.handmadetoyalliance.org/
>>
>>
>> -Kevin
>
> Here is the latest:
>
> Until Dec 21 2008 you must have certificate showing that none of the
> products contain lead (MSDS for paint) or the product must be a natural
> untreated material that does not contain lead. All products must be labeled
> with the date of Manufacture.
>

How does the law stand on small volume production clearly labelled
"Made by Craftsmen. Does not comply with statute..blah... " ? or something
more cleverly worded.
Is there provision for this?

I was wondering if there was some sort of loophole such as re-classifying
certain items as "furniture" rather than toys in the short-term. Obviously it
would be difficult to justify small stuff, but maybe rocking horse type
gizmos or anything a kid _could_ sit on.. ?

Just thinking aloud, but desperate times / desperate measures...

Meanwhile, good luck with the campaign, everybody.

Cn

Chris

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

16/12/2008 12:24 PM

ww.handmadetoyalliance.org/
>>
>>
>> -Kevin
>
> I have recieved this link to make comments on the CPSIA, Comments must be
> made by Jan 30 2009. Anyone who can or wishes to make a comment please do
> so.
> http://www.cpsc.gov/about/cpsia/ComponentPartsComments.pdf
>

Wrote my letter today. I hope it helps.

Chris

LM

"Lee Michaels"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

17/12/2008 11:16 AM


"mac davis" wrote
>
> So, until they change it (again), my process of Danish oil and buffing
> with the
> Beall system would seem ok...
>
>
Not so fast, since you are a south of the border manufacturer, you will need
approval from the Dept. of Homeland Security on the Danish finish and the
wax compounds used by the Beall system. And the DEA will need to check your
bowls to see that there are no illegal drugs in them. And, I almost forgot,
a mandatory body cavity search if you cross the border. ;)


L

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

10/12/2008 4:33 PM

On Dec 10, 6:59 pm, "Curran Copeland" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:b368617a-3891-40a3-8782-1fed284f0f0f@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > In August the Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act was passed as a
> > reaction to the wonderful garbage China has been sending us in the
> > form of lead painted toys. Unfortunately Uncle Sam, in all his
> > infinite wisdom, has overreacted with a law that it is completely
> > impossible for any small business (that's you) to comply with. I
> > know, you're shocked.
>
> > I encourage you to investigate the law and contact your
> > representatives.
>
> > Some links:
> >http://www.cpsc.gov/about/cpsia/cpsia.html
> >http://www.handmadetoyalliance.org/
>
> > -Kevin
>
> I read this and guess I will need a bail out due to the influence of
> Anti-American business influences, the US Congress. I don't see how any
> small toy maker can meet the standards set up here.

And it's not just toys. Clothing. Everything. Some companies are
already announcing they are pulling out of the US market.

http://www.playthings.com/article/CA6620437.html


-Kevin

md

mac davis

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

13/12/2008 6:43 AM

On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 18:47:51 -0600, "David G. Nagel" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>-MIKE- wrote:
>>>> Yet, for some reason, millions risk their lives to get to here to
>>>> live in this horrible, despicable place.
>>>
>>> Yep.. but someone can take my place... I got out 2 years ago...
>>>
>>
>> Hope it didn't hit you in the ass. :-)
>>
>>
>
>Nah. He most likely backed out and the door hit him in the teeth.

well, not quite...
Been gone 2 years, the shop is finished, just got my first SS check and it
doesn't snow here..
Life is GOOD ;-]


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

md

mac davis

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

18/12/2008 6:15 AM

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 11:16:34 -0500, "Lee Michaels"
<leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote:

>
>"mac davis" wrote
>>
>> So, until they change it (again), my process of Danish oil and buffing
>> with the
>> Beall system would seem ok...
>>
>>
>Not so fast, since you are a south of the border manufacturer, you will need
>approval from the Dept. of Homeland Security on the Danish finish and the
>wax compounds used by the Beall system. And the DEA will need to check your
>bowls to see that there are no illegal drugs in them. And, I almost forgot,
>a mandatory body cavity search if you cross the border. ;)
>
>
hmm... my customers that take stuff back to the States are in for a bit of fun!
lol


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

L

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

13/12/2008 4:44 PM

On Dec 12, 1:48 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> Curran Copeland <[email protected]> wrote:
> > <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:b368617a-3891-40a3-8782-1fed284f0f0f@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com..=
.
> > > In August the Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act was passed as a
> > > reaction to the wonderful garbage China has been sending us in the
> > > form of lead painted toys. Unfortunately Uncle Sam, in all his
> > > infinite wisdom, has overreacted with a law that it is completely
> > > impossible for any small business (that's you) to comply with. I
> > > know, you're shocked.
> > I just got off the phone with the USCPA and in a nut shell I'm screwed.
> > This act will only cover items made for children, ALL ITEMS MADE FOR
> > CHILDREN, and has NO exemptions at this time. Any item that is made fo=
r a
> > child is covered and will have to be tested. by a third party. The onl=
y
> > light at the end of the tunnel is that they are considering a complianc=
e for
> > small business that may be less stringent but at this time it is not in
> > effect. Even when it goes into effect if it does it will mean a lot of
> > paperwork.
>
> I don't suppose a "For Adult use only" sticker would work . . .
>
> I know there are lots of interesting disclaimers on products that seem
> only there to avoid lawsuits or to dodge some regulation. For example,
> check out any box of Q-tips to learn that you are not ever supposed to
> use them in your ears. Seriously, it's on every box, and even on the
> generic brands.

Won't work.

What is the definition of a children's product and how will the age
cutoffs be determined?
A "children=92s product" means a consumer product designed or
intended primarily for children 12 years of age or younger. In
determining whether a consumer product is primarily intended for a
child 12 years of age or younger, the following factors will be
considered:
* A statement by the manufacturer about the intended use of
the product, including a label on the product if such statement is
reasonable.
* Whether the product is represented in its packaging,
display, promotion or advertising as appropriate for use by children
12 years of age or younger.
* Whether the product is commonly recognized by consumers as
being intended for use by a child 12 years of age or younger.
* The Age Determination Guidelines issued by the Commission
staff in September 2002, and any successor to such guidelines.

The third and fourth ones are where you are screwed.

-Kevin

L

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

15/12/2008 10:29 PM

On Dec 15, 6:11 pm, "Curran Copeland" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> "Curran Copeland" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:D%[email protected]...
>
> > Just an update on my efforts to find out sometilng about this. So far no
> > information just redtape and double talk, Have talked to several other
> > toy makers and they are all in shock. Mitch McConnell's office is still
> > not talking to me, guess I am not big enough.

Something has to give, the law is insane. Don't give up.

> Side bar: One of the concerns that the cpsa has is that the small toy maker
> might buy lead paint at the local Lowes and wanted to know how I know that
> my paint doesn't contain lead.

From wikipedia:
"Paint containing more than 0.06% (600 ppm)[vague] lead was banned for
residential use in the United States in 1978 by the U.S. Consumer
Product Safety Commission (16 Code of Federal Regulations CFR 1303)."

I know there isn't any lead in the paint at Lowes because the
organization you're talking to made it illegal 30 fucking years ago.
Do they not know that? If you want lead paint in this country you
have to seek out the special lead paint. If they suspect there is
lead in any of the paint there maybe they should do their jobs and go
find out? Now the standard is being lowered from 600 ppm, so I
suppose it's possible there's some paint at Lowe's which doesn't meet
the new standard. Again, a good way to find that out would be to go
to the paint factory and test it there. Or we could wait until every
toy in the US is painted with it, and then test them all. Yeah, that
sounds like a better plan.


-Kevin

L

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

18/12/2008 11:03 AM

A couple of interesting articles:

http://www.7dvt.com/2008new-safety-law-no-fun-vts-artisan-toymakers

And then the first comment on this page is VERY interesting:

http://www.7dvt.com/2008new-safety-law-no-fun-vts-artisan-toymakers

"I haven=92t heard a single legitimate concern yet."

Right. Try actually reading the law instead of talking about what you
think it says.


-Kevin

L

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

18/12/2008 2:55 PM

On Dec 18, 3:12 pm, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > A couple of interesting articles:
>
> >http://www.7dvt.com/2008new-safety-law-no-fun-vts-artisan-toymakers
>
> > And then the first comment on this page is VERY interesting:
>
> >http://www.7dvt.com/2008new-safety-law-no-fun-vts-artisan-toymakers
>
> Uh, that's the same as the previous page you linked.

Whoops.

http://grecowoodcrafting.wordpress.com/2008/12/18/more-on-the-cpsia/

The first comment is from the guy quoted in the above link, who
basically says we're all in a conspiracy.

-Kevin

Ll

"LD"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

13/12/2008 11:22 PM

"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> LD wrote:
>> "Curran Copeland" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> "Jim Northey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> Ok so anyone know how this will affect the toys for tots campaigns
>>>> that are everywhere?
>>>> Jim
>>> The way I read it and the way it was explalined to me is that those
>>> will be treated as purchased/sold items (even though they are given
>>> away) and will be subject to the requirments of the ACT.
>>>
>>> Any one got a better take on it feel free to enlighten me, I would
>>> love to be wrong here.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Is it even possible to buy lead based paint in the US?
>
> Yes. Winsor & Newton 246 Flake White 1, normally in stock at Blick
> Art Supplies for 5 bucks a tube is one example.
>
> You're not going to find it in a can at Home Despot though.


Hadn't considered art supplies.

MD

Morris Dovey

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

11/12/2008 2:17 PM

Curran Copeland wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:b368617a-3891-40a3-8782-1fed284f0f0f@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>> In August the Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act was passed as a
>> reaction to the wonderful garbage China has been sending us in the
>> form of lead painted toys. Unfortunately Uncle Sam, in all his
>> infinite wisdom, has overreacted with a law that it is completely
>> impossible for any small business (that's you) to comply with. I
>> know, you're shocked.
>>
>> I encourage you to investigate the law and contact your
>> representatives.
>>
>> Some links:
>> http://www.cpsc.gov/about/cpsia/cpsia.html
>> http://www.handmadetoyalliance.org/
>>
> I have spent the morning looking into this legislation and have been told
> by one senator's office that they are two busy to talk to me and by a number
> of government that there is no one there who can help me, please leave a
> message or I have gotten answering machines that can not take messages
> because they are to full of unanswered messages. Makes me wonder what my
> taxes are going for, oh yeah I remember for the rich to get richer.

It's a lot more informative when you name the Senator and tell /which/
government offices you called that weren't responsive...

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

MD

Morris Dovey

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

11/12/2008 4:05 PM

Curran Copeland wrote:

<...and Morris reformatted>

>> It's a lot more informative when you name the Senator and tell
>> /which/ government offices you called that weren't responsive...

> The Senator's office was that of Mitch McConnell (R-KY)

> The office was that of the US product safety commission compleance
> staff whose answering was too full to take another message.

> The others I will wait to see if they do call back.

> I did recieve a call from Representative Edward Whitfield (R-KY) who
> told me that they were looking into possible self certification for
> small business, but that they had no real information as of this time
> and would let me know by Monday as to what was going on.

> I hope that is a little more informative then the post I wrote in
> disgust a short time ago.

Yuppers, it is; and I fully understand the disgust.

I *like* sunshine! I think they don't get enough of it in DC. :)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

L

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

17/12/2008 9:19 AM

On Dec 17, 10:50 am, mac davis <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 11:43:00 -0600, "Curran Copeland"
>
>
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Here is the latest:
>
> >Until Dec 21 2008 you must have certificate showing that none of the
> >products contain lead (MSDS for paint) or the product must be a natural
> >untreated material that does not contain lead. All products must be labeled
> >with the date of Manufacture.
>
> >After December 21 2008 all painted products must have 3rd party
> >certification for lead content
>
> >After Feb 10 2008 all products must have 3rd party certification to be sold.
>
> >So basicaly anything made before December 21st 2008 is good if you don't use
> >lead ln the product.
>
> >Clear finishes are not considered paint at this time. Stains are not
> >considered paint at this time.
>
> >Get your letters and e-mails in to let them know how foolish this is.
>
> So, until they change it (again), my process of Danish oil and buffing with the
> Beall system would seem ok...

Until Feb 10th.

I wonder how they would feel about using FDA 21CFR175.300 as an
approved list of coatings not requiring testing after Feb 10th.

-Kevin

md

mac davis

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

13/12/2008 6:41 AM

On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 17:28:36 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:

>>> Yet, for some reason, millions risk their lives to get to here to live
>>> in this horrible, despicable place.
>>
>> Yep.. but someone can take my place...
>> I got out 2 years ago...
>>
>
>Hope it didn't hit you in the ass. :-)

Nope... we love it here (Baja) and don't want to ever go back...


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

md

mac davis

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

11/12/2008 8:42 AM

On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 14:35:04 -0800 (PST), [email protected] wrote:

>In August the Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act was passed as a
>reaction to the wonderful garbage China has been sending us in the
>form of lead painted toys. Unfortunately Uncle Sam, in all his
>infinite wisdom, has overreacted with a law that it is completely
>impossible for any small business (that's you) to comply with. I
>know, you're shocked.
>
>I encourage you to investigate the law and contact your
>representatives.
>
>Some links:
>http://www.cpsc.gov/about/cpsia/cpsia.html
>http://www.handmadetoyalliance.org/
>
>
>-Kevin

Wow.. another great reason for getting out of the US..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

tt

tommyboy

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

11/12/2008 12:38 PM

On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:07:23 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>mac davis wrote:
>> Wow.. another great reason for getting out of the US..
>>
>
>Yet, for some reason, millions risk their lives to get to here to live
>in this horrible, despicable place.

Amen

Sb

"SonomaProducts.com"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

16/12/2008 11:22 AM

Great info. Thanks.

The email address is [email protected]

The doc contains a fax and snail mail address also.

I'll send one comment to each.



On Dec 16, 7:24=A0am, "Curran Copeland" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:b368617a-3891-40a3-8782-1fed284f0f0f@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > In August the Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act was passed as a
> > reaction to the wonderful garbage China has been sending us in the
> > form of lead painted toys. =A0Unfortunately Uncle Sam, in all his
> > infinite wisdom, has overreacted with a law that it is completely
> > impossible for any small business (that's you) to comply with. =A0I
> > know, you're shocked.
>
> > I encourage you to investigate the law and contact your
> > representatives.
>
> > Some links:
> >http://www.cpsc.gov/about/cpsia/cpsia.html
> >http://www.handmadetoyalliance.org/
>
> > -Kevin
>
> I have recieved this link to make comments on the CPSIA, Comments must be
> made by Jan 30 2009. =A0Anyone who can or wishes to make a comment please=
do
> so.http://www.cpsc.gov/about/cpsia/ComponentPartsComments.pdf- Hide quote=
d text -
>
> - Show quoted

Sk

"Swingman"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

15/12/2008 3:42 PM

"Curran Copeland" wrote

> Since the toys I make are old style and could be considered for the
> collectors market, I know some people who buy them strictly for
> decoration, I am thinking about it, I am going to have to check with a
> lawer and see if it would make a difference.


A lawyer will NEVER give you a definitive answer ... it is against his
financial interests.

At the most, you will be painted a grey picture full of "if's", "and's" and
"but's", the decision will still be yours to make, as well as the
consequences of same.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)



CC

"Curran Copeland"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

15/12/2008 3:31 PM

Just an update on my efforts to find out sometilng about this. So far no
information just redtape and double talk, Have talked to several other toy
makers and they are all in shock. Mitch McConnell's office is still not
talking to me, guess I am not big enough.

CC

"Curran Copeland"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

11/12/2008 2:57 PM


">
> It's a lot more informative when you name the Senator and tell /which/
> government offices you called that weren't responsive...
>
> --
> Morris Dovey
> DeSoto Solar
> DeSoto, Iowa USA
> http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

The Senator's office was that of Mitch McConnell (R-KY) The office was
that of the US product safety commission compleance staff whose answering
was too full to take another message. The others I will wait to see if they
do call back. I did recieve a call from Representative Edward Whitfield
(R-KY) who told me that they were looking into possible self certification
for small business, but that they had no real information as of this time
and would let me know by Monday as to what was going on. I hope that is a
little more informative then the post I wrote in disgust a short time ago.

MJ

Mark & Juanita

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

12/12/2008 10:51 AM

Curran Copeland wrote:

>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:b368617a-3891-40a3-8782-1fed284f0f0f@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>> In August the Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act was passed as a
>> reaction to the wonderful garbage China has been sending us in the
>> form of lead painted toys. Unfortunately Uncle Sam, in all his
>> infinite wisdom, has overreacted with a law that it is completely
>> impossible for any small business (that's you) to comply with. I
>> know, you're shocked.
>
> I just got off the phone with the USCPA and in a nut shell I'm screwed.
> This act will only cover items made for children, ALL ITEMS MADE FOR
> CHILDREN, and has NO exemptions at this time. Any item that is made for a
> child is covered and will have to be tested. by a third party. The only
> light at the end of the tunnel is that they are considering a compliance
> for small business that may be less stringent but at this time it is not
> in effect. Even when it goes into effect if it does it will mean a lot of
> paperwork.

Just a question, are you engaged in interstate commerce? If you are
selling locally, you may have an out since the fed is only authorized to
regulate interstate and foreign commerce.


--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

CC

"Curran Copeland"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

12/12/2008 12:01 PM


"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Just a question, are you engaged in interstate commerce? If you are
> selling locally, you may have an out since the fed is only authorized to
> regulate interstate and foreign commerce.
>
>
> --
> If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

I sell items all over the country, close to 75% of my sales are out of state
and about 2% international.

LH

"Lew Hodgett"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

12/12/2008 3:19 AM

"Curran Copeland" wrote:

> Not since back when I worked for and with him before he bacame a
> Senator.

Guess you are out of favor huh?

Lew

CC

"Curran Copeland"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

18/12/2008 12:29 PM


<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Dec 18, 11:42 am, "Curran Copeland" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> news:b368617a-3891-40a3-8782-1fed284f0f0f@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > In August the Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act was passed as a
>> > reaction to the wonderful garbage China has been sending us in the
>> > form of lead painted toys. Unfortunately Uncle Sam, in all his
>> > infinite wisdom, has overreacted with a law that it is completely
>> > impossible for any small business (that's you) to comply with. I
>> > know, you're shocked.
>>
>> > I encourage you to investigate the law and contact your
>> > representatives.
>>
>> > Some links:
>> >http://www.cpsc.gov/about/cpsia/cpsia.html
>> >http://www.handmadetoyalliance.org/
>>
>> > -Kevin
>>
>> Curran-
>>
>> I spoke with a person at the Consumer Product Safety Commission yesterday
>> regarding the third party lab testing fees. They have been hearing from
>> several hand crafted toymakers about this issue. As of right now, the
>> fees
>> will go into effect. He said that they are working on a way to redefine
>> the
>> way it reads so that hand crafted toys made from products that have
>> already
>> been tested for lead don't have to be tested again. In about a month or
>> so
>> they are going to release some clarifications regarding the issues that
>> have
>> been brought up. I will follow up with the CPSC in January and forward
>> to
>> you a copy of the document they release when I get it. Please feel free
>> to
>> call me or email if you have any further questions.
>>
>> Carrie Haas
>>
>> United States Senator Jim Bunning (R-KY)
>>
>> (202) 224-4343
>
> Well that sounds promising. But that wouldn't seem to cover the fact
> that wood doesn't need to be tested in the first place. And that's
> just the lead aspect, there's still the testing for all the other
> regulations.
>
>
> -Kevin

I agree but at least it's a start in the right direction, they are beginning
to listen. I saw to day the more Chinese c@#p has been recalled due to
high levels of lead or the fact that it falls apart when used, Looks like
the gov would want to encourage high quality domestic goods instead of
forcing it out of existence.

CC

"Curran Copeland"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

11/12/2008 7:37 PM


"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Curran Copeland" wrote:
>
>> The Senator's office was that of Mitch McConnell (R-KY)
>
> He was way too....oo busy getting re-elected to do anything constructive.
>
> BTW, did you contribute to his re-election campaign?
>
> Lew

Not since back when I worked for and with him before he bacame a Senator. >
>

MJ

Mark & Juanita

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

17/12/2008 9:33 PM

sweet sawdust wrote:

>
> <To day I spoke with The Southern Artists Federation, The Kentucky Arts
> Council, The Tennessee Artists and Craftsman Association, Artists
> Associations in north and south Carolina and in Alabama. All of the
> groups are alarmed by CPSIA and are taking steps to change it as well as
> notifing
> all of thier members to write in to the CPSC site and thier congressman.
> I also spoke the Wendy Rosen (if you don't know her do a google, it is
> fasanating) and she is going to look into it and see what she can do about
> it from a corporate level. She also advised me to ignore it for the time
> being since she feels that CPSC will not be able to inforce it except for
> imports and then not very well. According to her the act was sponsered by
> a MO senator (no cosponser) and tacked on to another bill so no one in
> congress really knew anything about it. I also spoke to a staffer from
> Senator Bunning's office who asked if this was real? She had been to the
> handmadetoyalliance web site and read it there and had a copy of the act,
> but was unable to get through to the CPSC office. She said that the
> office will close Friday untill Jan. 5 and the Senator said that if they
> have not gotten a reply by then, they would have a reply in his office and
> an
> explaniation of what is going on. She also wanted to know how many
> Kentuckians are affected by this, I told her a few hundred and she said
> she
> had heard for most of them. So the ball is rolling we will see how far it
> goes.
>
> Curran Copeland

Good luck to you on this; hopefully this ill-considered legislation can be
reversed. Leave it to the federal government to swat flies by wildly
swinging a sledge hammer. That MO senator wouldn't happen to have been
Claire McCaskill would it?

--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

EP

"Ed Pawlowski"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

16/12/2008 10:25 PM


"SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:991d05df-dbe9-4bc4-b4b9-d95efaf9f1e5@c36g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
Great info. Thanks.

The email address is [email protected]

The doc contains a fax and snail mail address also.

I'll send one comment to each.


*********************************************************

Just sent mine. I've dealt with 3rd party inspection for a number of years.
What a costly joke it is.

Ll

"LD"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

13/12/2008 7:23 AM

"Curran Copeland" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Jim Northey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Ok so anyone know how this will affect the toys for tots campaigns that
>> are everywhere?
>> Jim
> The way I read it and the way it was explalined to me is that those will
> be treated as purchased/sold items (even though they are given away) and
> will be subject to the requirments of the ACT.
>
> Any one got a better take on it feel free to enlighten me, I would love to
> be wrong here.
>


Is it even possible to buy lead based paint in the US?

CC

"Curran Copeland"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

13/12/2008 7:13 PM


<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:2cfccc15-035c-4c96-bc88-0994a6703a17@j11g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 12, 1:48 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> I don't suppose a "For Adult use only" sticker would work . . .
>
> I know there are lots of interesting disclaimers on products that seem
> only there to avoid lawsuits or to dodge some regulation. For example,
> check out any box of Q-tips to learn that you are not ever supposed to
> use them in your ears. Seriously, it's on every box, and even on the
> generic brands.

Won't work.

What is the definition of a children's product and how will the age
cutoffs be determined?
A "children’s product" means a consumer product designed or
intended primarily for children 12 years of age or younger. In
determining whether a consumer product is primarily intended for a
child 12 years of age or younger, the following factors will be
considered:
* A statement by the manufacturer about the intended use of
the product, including a label on the product if such statement is
reasonable.
* Whether the product is represented in its packaging,
display, promotion or advertising as appropriate for use by children
12 years of age or younger.
* Whether the product is commonly recognized by consumers as
being intended for use by a child 12 years of age or younger.
* The Age Determination Guidelines issued by the Commission
staff in September 2002, and any successor to such guidelines.

The third and fourth ones are where you are screwed.

-Kevin

You are right there!!!!!

ss

"sweet sawdust"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

18/12/2008 9:05 AM

> How does the law stand on small volume production clearly labelled
> "Made by Craftsmen. Does not comply with statute..blah... " ? or something
> more cleverly worded.
> Is there provision for this?
>
> I was wondering if there was some sort of loophole such as re-classifying
> certain items as "furniture" rather than toys in the short-term. Obviously
> it
> would be difficult to justify small stuff, but maybe rocking horse type
> gizmos or anything a kid _could_ sit on.. ?
>
> Just thinking aloud, but desperate times / desperate measures...
>
> Meanwhile, good luck with the campaign, everybody.
>
It is my understanding that there are NO loopholes of this kind, that is
were the complaint comes in.

CC

"Curran Copeland"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

16/12/2008 11:43 AM

Thank you
"Chris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> ww.handmadetoyalliance.org/
>>>
>>>
>>> -Kevin
>>
>> I have recieved this link to make comments on the CPSIA, Comments must be
>> made by Jan 30 2009. Anyone who can or wishes to make a comment please
>> do so.
>> http://www.cpsc.gov/about/cpsia/ComponentPartsComments.pdf
>>
>
> Wrote my letter today. I hope it helps.
>
> Chris

ss

"sweet sawdust"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

17/12/2008 9:22 PM


<To day I spoke with The Southern Artists Federation, The Kentucky Arts
Council, The Tennessee Artists and Craftsman Association, Artists
Associations in north and south Carolina and in Alabama. All of the groups
are alarmed by CPSIA and are taking steps to change it as well as notifing
all of thier members to write in to the CPSC site and thier congressman. I
also spoke the Wendy Rosen (if you don't know her do a google, it is
fasanating) and she is going to look into it and see what she can do about
it from a corporate level. She also advised me to ignore it for the time
being since she feels that CPSC will not be able to inforce it except for
imports and then not very well. According to her the act was sponsered by a
MO senator (no cosponser) and tacked on to another bill so no one in
congress really knew anything about it. I also spoke to a staffer from
Senator Bunning's office who asked if this was real? She had been to the
handmadetoyalliance web site and read it there and had a copy of the act,
but was unable to get through to the CPSC office. She said that the office
will close Friday untill Jan. 5 and the Senator said that if they have not
gotten a reply by then, they would have a reply in his office and an
explaniation of what is going on. She also wanted to know how many
Kentuckians are affected by this, I told her a few hundred and she said she
had heard for most of them. So the ball is rolling we will see how far it
goes.

Curran Copeland

DW

Doug Winterburn

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

10/12/2008 5:48 PM

cm wrote:
> And soon they may fuck up our healthcare, automotive, and banking systems.
>

Too late for the banking system. The automotive industry is days away
and soon to follow is the healthcare system.

CC

"Curran Copeland"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

15/12/2008 5:11 PM


"Curran Copeland" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:D%[email protected]...
> Just an update on my efforts to find out sometilng about this. So far no
> information just redtape and double talk, Have talked to several other
> toy makers and they are all in shock. Mitch McConnell's office is still
> not talking to me, guess I am not big enough.
>

Side bar: One of the concerns that the cpsa has is that the small toy maker
might buy lead paint at the local Lowes and wanted to know how I know that
my paint doesn't contain lead.

L

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

18/12/2008 10:06 AM

On Dec 18, 11:42 am, "Curran Copeland" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:b368617a-3891-40a3-8782-1fed284f0f0f@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > In August the Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act was passed as a
> > reaction to the wonderful garbage China has been sending us in the
> > form of lead painted toys. Unfortunately Uncle Sam, in all his
> > infinite wisdom, has overreacted with a law that it is completely
> > impossible for any small business (that's you) to comply with. I
> > know, you're shocked.
>
> > I encourage you to investigate the law and contact your
> > representatives.
>
> > Some links:
> >http://www.cpsc.gov/about/cpsia/cpsia.html
> >http://www.handmadetoyalliance.org/
>
> > -Kevin
>
> Curran-
>
> I spoke with a person at the Consumer Product Safety Commission yesterday
> regarding the third party lab testing fees. They have been hearing from
> several hand crafted toymakers about this issue. As of right now, the fees
> will go into effect. He said that they are working on a way to redefine the
> way it reads so that hand crafted toys made from products that have already
> been tested for lead don't have to be tested again. In about a month or so
> they are going to release some clarifications regarding the issues that have
> been brought up. I will follow up with the CPSC in January and forward to
> you a copy of the document they release when I get it. Please feel free to
> call me or email if you have any further questions.
>
> Carrie Haas
>
> United States Senator Jim Bunning (R-KY)
>
> (202) 224-4343

Well that sounds promising. But that wouldn't seem to cover the fact
that wood doesn't need to be tested in the first place. And that's
just the lead aspect, there's still the testing for all the other
regulations.


-Kevin

L

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

17/12/2008 9:13 PM

I sent an email to the League of NH Craftsmen tonight.

I did some digging on the CPSC site and found the manual for testing
for sharp points, sharp edges and durability regulations.

http://www.cpsc.gov/businfo/testtoys.pdf

And found this little gem:

"A sample shall consist of at least 12 subsamples"

So, if I want to make a custom toy for someone I have to make 13 of
them and then send 12 off to be tested.

Just trying to figure out which of these regulations actually applies
to anything is enough to give you a headache.


-Kevin

L

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

11/12/2008 3:48 PM

On Dec 11, 3:57 pm, "Curran Copeland" <[email protected]>
wrote:

> The Senator's office was that of Mitch McConnell (R-KY) The office was
> that of the US product safety commission compleance staff whose answering
> was too full to take another message. The others I will wait to see if they
> do call back. I did recieve a call from Representative Edward Whitfield
> (R-KY) who told me that they were looking into possible self certification
> for small business, but that they had no real information as of this time
> and would let me know by Monday as to what was going on. I hope that is a
> little more informative then the post I wrote in disgust a short time ago.

Well that's the first encouraging response I've heard.

-Kevin

md

mac davis

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

12/12/2008 7:57 AM

On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:56:09 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:

>Curran Copeland wrote:
>> Makes me wonder what my
>> taxes are going for, oh yeah I remember for the rich to get richer.
>>
>
>Despite what far left politicians, who make their livings exploiting and
>perpetuating class warfare (most of whom came from old money,
>ironically) would have you believe, ninety percent of millionaires in
>this country are first generation rich.

I think the word "millionaire" is out of date...
You need almost that much to buy a POS house in some places..

I agree with the point, though.. Folks like Bill Gates weren't trust fund kids
by any means..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Mm

-MIKE-

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

11/12/2008 11:07 AM

mac davis wrote:
> Wow.. another great reason for getting out of the US..
>

Yet, for some reason, millions risk their lives to get to here to live
in this horrible, despicable place.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

r

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

11/12/2008 5:48 PM

Bored Borg <[email protected]> wrote:

> The politician's answer is always to make new laws rather than enforce the
> ones we already have.

Well, by definition, most politicians are lawmakers. Their only real
ability is to create and pass new laws, or remove old ones (and they
seem loath to do that). Sort of like hammers. Useful for some things
but really not the right tool for driving a screw. Asking a politician
to "do something" pretty much means they will try to pass a new law.

The few politicians who are actually administrators, they should be
able to do cover a wider range of function, but most of them started
out as lawmakers and mostly think all problems look like nails.

Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.

Mm

-MIKE-

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

11/12/2008 2:56 PM

Curran Copeland wrote:
> Makes me wonder what my
> taxes are going for, oh yeah I remember for the rich to get richer.
>

Despite what far left politicians, who make their livings exploiting and
perpetuating class warfare (most of whom came from old money,
ironically) would have you believe, ninety percent of millionaires in
this country are first generation rich.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Mm

-MIKE-

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

11/12/2008 3:16 PM

Curran Copeland wrote:
> I did recieve a call from Representative Edward Whitfield
> (R-KY) who told me that they were looking into possible self certification
> for small business, but that they had no real information as of this time
> and would let me know by Monday as to what was going on. I hope that is a
> little more informative then the post I wrote in disgust a short time ago.
>

Well... yeah, that's a lot more info. I understand you frustration,
though.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

bb

"basilisk"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

12/12/2008 12:49 PM

Put an 18+ age sticker on each one,
and don't market them as toys.

Basilisk
"Curran Copeland" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Just a question, are you engaged in interstate commerce? If you are
>> selling locally, you may have an out since the fed is only authorized to
>> regulate interstate and foreign commerce.
>>
>>
>> --
>> If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
>
> I sell items all over the country, close to 75% of my sales are out of
> state and about 2% international.
>
>

r

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

12/12/2008 6:48 PM

Curran Copeland <[email protected]> wrote:

> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:b368617a-3891-40a3-8782-1fed284f0f0f@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> > In August the Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act was passed as a
> > reaction to the wonderful garbage China has been sending us in the
> > form of lead painted toys. Unfortunately Uncle Sam, in all his
> > infinite wisdom, has overreacted with a law that it is completely
> > impossible for any small business (that's you) to comply with. I
> > know, you're shocked.

> I just got off the phone with the USCPA and in a nut shell I'm screwed.
> This act will only cover items made for children, ALL ITEMS MADE FOR
> CHILDREN, and has NO exemptions at this time. Any item that is made for a
> child is covered and will have to be tested. by a third party. The only
> light at the end of the tunnel is that they are considering a compliance for
> small business that may be less stringent but at this time it is not in
> effect. Even when it goes into effect if it does it will mean a lot of
> paperwork.

I don't suppose a "For Adult use only" sticker would work . . .

I know there are lots of interesting disclaimers on products that seem
only there to avoid lawsuits or to dodge some regulation. For example,
check out any box of Q-tips to learn that you are not ever supposed to
use them in your ears. Seriously, it's on every box, and even on the
generic brands.

Just idly speculating. I don't make toys for sale.

Bill Ranck
Blacsburg, Va.

r

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

12/12/2008 8:02 PM

Curran Copeland <[email protected]> wrote:

> Since the toys I make are old style and could be considered for the
> collectors market, I know some people who buy them strictly for decoration,
> I am thinking about it, I am going to have to check with a lawer and see if
> it would make a difference. I thilnk I might be on thin ice with it but
> it's worth a look. Thanks to you and baslisk for the idea

Well, I would think that you'd have to have a pretty big operation
to warrant any notice. In other words, who's going to complain?
As long as you don't poison anyone I doubt you'd come to anyone's
attention. Worst case, they'd probably just make you stop selling
if they ever did notice. I could understand not wanting to take
that chance, but I wouldn't blame someone who did. Again, assuming
they aren't using anything toxic, which I'm sure you aren't.

Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.

Mm

-MIKE-

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

12/12/2008 5:28 PM

>> Yet, for some reason, millions risk their lives to get to here to live
>> in this horrible, despicable place.
>
> Yep.. but someone can take my place...
> I got out 2 years ago...
>

Hope it didn't hit you in the ass. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

JC

"J. Clarke"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

12/12/2008 6:03 PM

[email protected] wrote:
> Curran Copeland <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Since the toys I make are old style and could be considered for the
>> collectors market, I know some people who buy them strictly for
>> decoration, I am thinking about it, I am going to have to check
>> with a lawer and see if it would make a difference. I thilnk I
>> might be on thin ice with it but it's worth a look. Thanks to you
>> and baslisk for the idea
>
> Well, I would think that you'd have to have a pretty big operation
> to warrant any notice. In other words, who's going to complain?
> As long as you don't poison anyone I doubt you'd come to anyone's
> attention. Worst case, they'd probably just make you stop selling
> if they ever did notice. I could understand not wanting to take
> that chance, but I wouldn't blame someone who did. Again, assuming
> they aren't using anything toxic, which I'm sure you aren't.

As long as nobody's kid manages to choke on a piece of it. It used to
be that if a kid choked on a button it was the kid's fault, or the
parents for not watching the kid--now it's the button-maker's fault
for not either making the button bigger or putting a warning label on
it.
>
> Bill Ranck
> Blacksburg, Va.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

JC

"J. Clarke"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

13/12/2008 7:00 AM

LD wrote:
> "Curran Copeland" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Jim Northey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> Ok so anyone know how this will affect the toys for tots campaigns
>>> that are everywhere?
>>> Jim
>> The way I read it and the way it was explalined to me is that those
>> will be treated as purchased/sold items (even though they are given
>> away) and will be subject to the requirments of the ACT.
>>
>> Any one got a better take on it feel free to enlighten me, I would
>> love to be wrong here.
>>
>
>
> Is it even possible to buy lead based paint in the US?

Yes. Winsor & Newton 246 Flake White 1, normally in stock at Blick
Art Supplies for 5 bucks a tube is one example.

You're not going to find it in a can at Home Despot though.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

JC

"J. Clarke"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

18/12/2008 3:12 PM

[email protected] wrote:
> A couple of interesting articles:
>
> http://www.7dvt.com/2008new-safety-law-no-fun-vts-artisan-toymakers
>
> And then the first comment on this page is VERY interesting:
>
> http://www.7dvt.com/2008new-safety-law-no-fun-vts-artisan-toymakers

Uh, that's the same as the previous page you linked.

> "I haven’t heard a single legitimate concern yet."
>
> Right. Try actually reading the law instead of talking about what
> you
> think it says.
>
>
> -Kevin

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

ss

"sweet sawdust"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

18/12/2008 8:00 AM

This deal is getting scary, this morning at 7:30 am CST I recieved a call
from the office of my state (not federal) representive. He wants to get
onboard to help fight this Act and use the resources of the state. I know
he does not open his office untill 9 am and closes for three weeks during
Christmas until the first full week after new years.

CC

"Curran Copeland"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

10/12/2008 5:59 PM


<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:b368617a-3891-40a3-8782-1fed284f0f0f@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> In August the Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act was passed as a
> reaction to the wonderful garbage China has been sending us in the
> form of lead painted toys. Unfortunately Uncle Sam, in all his
> infinite wisdom, has overreacted with a law that it is completely
> impossible for any small business (that's you) to comply with. I
> know, you're shocked.
>
> I encourage you to investigate the law and contact your
> representatives.
>
> Some links:
> http://www.cpsc.gov/about/cpsia/cpsia.html
> http://www.handmadetoyalliance.org/
>
>
> -Kevin

I read this and guess I will need a bail out due to the influence of
Anti-American business influences, the US Congress. I don't see how any
small toy maker can meet the standards set up here.

ss

"sweet sawdust"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

18/12/2008 9:08 AM


"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 11:16:34 -0500, "Lee Michaels"
> <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>"mac davis" wrote
>>>
>>> So, until they change it (again), my process of Danish oil and buffing
>>> with the
>>> Beall system would seem ok...
>>>
>>>
>>Not so fast, since you are a south of the border manufacturer, you will
>>need
>>approval from the Dept. of Homeland Security on the Danish finish and the
>>wax compounds used by the Beall system. And the DEA will need to check
>>your
>>bowls to see that there are no illegal drugs in them. And, I almost
>>forgot,
>>a mandatory body cavity search if you cross the border. ;)
>>
>>
> hmm... my customers that take stuff back to the States are in for a bit of
> fun!
> lol
>
>
> mac
>
> Please remove splinters before emailing

You may have found the answer! Since the law only covers items sold in the
US maybe we need to move all crafts shows etc out of country.

CC

"Curran Copeland"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

16/12/2008 9:24 AM


<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:b368617a-3891-40a3-8782-1fed284f0f0f@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> In August the Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act was passed as a
> reaction to the wonderful garbage China has been sending us in the
> form of lead painted toys. Unfortunately Uncle Sam, in all his
> infinite wisdom, has overreacted with a law that it is completely
> impossible for any small business (that's you) to comply with. I
> know, you're shocked.
>
> I encourage you to investigate the law and contact your
> representatives.
>
> Some links:
> http://www.cpsc.gov/about/cpsia/cpsia.html
> http://www.handmadetoyalliance.org/
>
>
> -Kevin

I have recieved this link to make comments on the CPSIA, Comments must be
made by Jan 30 2009. Anyone who can or wishes to make a comment please do
so.
http://www.cpsc.gov/about/cpsia/ComponentPartsComments.pdf



md

mac davis

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

12/12/2008 7:53 AM

On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:07:23 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:

>mac davis wrote:
>> Wow.. another great reason for getting out of the US..
>>
>
>Yet, for some reason, millions risk their lives to get to here to live
>in this horrible, despicable place.

Yep.. but someone can take my place...
I got out 2 years ago...


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

CC

"Curran Copeland"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

12/12/2008 1:11 PM


<.
>
>> I just got off the phone with the USCPA and in a nut shell I'm screwed.
>> This act will only cover items made for children, ALL ITEMS MADE FOR
>> CHILDREN, and has NO exemptions at this time. Any item that is made for
>> a
>> child is covered and will have to be tested. by a third party. The only
>> light at the end of the tunnel is that they are considering a compliance
>> for
>> small business that may be less stringent but at this time it is not in
>> effect. Even when it goes into effect if it does it will mean a lot of
>> paperwork.
>
> I don't suppose a "For Adult use only" sticker would work . . .
>
> I know there are lots of interesting disclaimers on products that seem
> only there to avoid lawsuits or to dodge some regulation. For example,
> check out any box of Q-tips to learn that you are not ever supposed to
> use them in your ears. Seriously, it's on every box, and even on the
> generic brands.
>
> Just idly speculating. I don't make toys for sale.
>
> Bill Ranck
> Blacsburg, Va.

Since the toys I make are old style and could be considered for the
collectors market, I know some people who buy them strictly for decoration,
I am thinking about it, I am going to have to check with a lawer and see if
it would make a difference. I thilnk I might be on thin ice with it but
it's worth a look. Thanks to you and baslisk for the idea

DG

"David G. Nagel"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

12/12/2008 6:47 PM

-MIKE- wrote:
>>> Yet, for some reason, millions risk their lives to get to here to
>>> live in this horrible, despicable place.
>>
>> Yep.. but someone can take my place... I got out 2 years ago...
>>
>
> Hope it didn't hit you in the ass. :-)
>
>

Nah. He most likely backed out and the door hit him in the teeth.

CC

"Curran Copeland"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

16/12/2008 11:43 AM


<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:b368617a-3891-40a3-8782-1fed284f0f0f@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> In August the Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act was passed as a
> reaction to the wonderful garbage China has been sending us in the
> form of lead painted toys. Unfortunately Uncle Sam, in all his
> infinite wisdom, has overreacted with a law that it is completely
> impossible for any small business (that's you) to comply with. I
> know, you're shocked.
>
> I encourage you to investigate the law and contact your
> representatives.
>
> Some links:
> http://www.cpsc.gov/about/cpsia/cpsia.html
> http://www.handmadetoyalliance.org/
>
>
> -Kevin

Here is the latest:

Until Dec 21 2008 you must have certificate showing that none of the
products contain lead (MSDS for paint) or the product must be a natural
untreated material that does not contain lead. All products must be labeled
with the date of Manufacture.

After December 21 2008 all painted products must have 3rd party
certification for lead content

After Feb 10 2008 all products must have 3rd party certification to be sold.

So basicaly anything made before December 21st 2008 is good if you don't use
lead ln the product.

Clear finishes are not considered paint at this time. Stains are not
considered paint at this time.

Get your letters and e-mails in to let them know how foolish this is.

md

mac davis

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

13/12/2008 6:39 AM

On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 18:03:37 -0500, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:


>As long as nobody's kid manages to choke on a piece of it. It used to
>be that if a kid choked on a button it was the kid's fault, or the
>parents for not watching the kid--now it's the button-maker's fault
>for not either making the button bigger or putting a warning label on
>it.
>>
It gets worse...
A few years ago in Central Calif., there was an attorney with a couple of token
clients that were handicapped.

He specialized in going to small businesses and finding violations of the
Disability Act..
Improper entry doors, pipes under sinks not fully insulated, etc...

He would then sue in the name of his client, aiming for an out of court
settlement, since most small businesses can't afford a long legal battle....

He was very successful and got a lot of settlements for his "clients", none of
whom had ever been in any of the places that "they" were suing..
Also, none of the businesses had received any complaints or requests from
customers..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

ss

"sweet sawdust"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

18/12/2008 5:34 AM


>
> Good luck to you on this; hopefully this ill-considered legislation can
> be
> reversed. Leave it to the federal government to swat flies by wildly
> swinging a sledge hammer. That MO senator wouldn't happen to have been
> Claire McCaskill would it?
>
> --
> If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

Ms Rosen did not give any names just state, It might be good to luck it up
though and see who sponsered it.

CC

"Curran Copeland"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

12/12/2008 2:19 PM


<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Curran Copeland <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Well, I would think that you'd have to have a pretty big operation
> to warrant any notice. In other words, who's going to complain?
> As long as you don't poison anyone I doubt you'd come to anyone's
> attention. Worst case, they'd probably just make you stop selling
> if they ever did notice. I could understand not wanting to take
> that chance, but I wouldn't blame someone who did. Again, assuming
> they aren't using anything toxic, which I'm sure you aren't.
>
> Bill Ranck
> Blacksburg, Va.
>

You would thank so wouldn't you. The problem is that if you are caught you
get a nice fine and possible jail time. Since I sell in a few high profile
areas I could be noticed and asked to produce the paper work. If I were
just doing local shows then I would probably thumb my nose at them and take
my chances, the only thing to worry about is someone like me who has to do
the paper work turning you in, and I don't do that many shows anyway. Would
I turn anyone in, well I have seen some pretty crappy toys out there and I
might one of the guys who makes stuff cheap and doesn't care but otherwise
no way.

Pn

PHT

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

11/12/2008 1:17 AM

On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 14:35:04 -0800, LEGEND65 wrote:

> In August the Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act was passed as a
> reaction to the wonderful garbage China has been sending us in the
> form of lead painted toys. Unfortunately Uncle Sam, in all his
> infinite wisdom, has overreacted with a law that it is completely
> impossible for any small business (that's you) to comply with. I
> know, you're shocked.
>
> I encourage you to investigate the law and contact your
> representatives.
>
> Some links:
> http://www.cpsc.gov/about/cpsia/cpsia.html
> http://www.handmadetoyalliance.org/
>
>
> -Kevin

Since when has Congress ever talked to small and medium size businesses
before passed any law or act. They are part of the never seen or
listened to group. You can bet that if the people that contribute heavy to
their re-election campaigns was going to be affected the act would have
been written differently.

Paul T.

--
The only dumb question, is the one not asked

JN

"Jim Northey"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

13/12/2008 7:58 AM


"Curran Copeland" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Jim Northey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Ok so anyone know how this will affect the toys for tots campaigns that
>> are everywhere?
>> Jim
> The way I read it and the way it was explalined to me is that those will
> be treated as purchased/sold items (even though they are given away) and
> will be subject to the requirments of the ACT.
>
> Any one got a better take on it feel free to enlighten me, I would love to
> be wrong here.
>
Sounds like a lot of kids in need are going to get screwed on Christmas when
this act goes into full swing. :-( I wonder if they even thought of that
.With luck some time between now and then they will rethink some of the act.
Jim

LH

"Lew Hodgett"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

12/12/2008 12:54 AM

"Curran Copeland" wrote:

> The Senator's office was that of Mitch McConnell (R-KY)

He was way too....oo busy getting re-elected to do anything
constructive.

BTW, did you contribute to his re-election campaign?

Lew

JN

"Jim Northey"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

12/12/2008 5:36 PM

Ok so anyone know how this will affect the toys for tots campaigns that are
everywhere?
Jim
"Curran Copeland" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:b368617a-3891-40a3-8782-1fed284f0f0f@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>> In August the Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act was passed as a
>> reaction to the wonderful garbage China has been sending us in the
>> form of lead painted toys. Unfortunately Uncle Sam, in all his
>> infinite wisdom, has overreacted with a law that it is completely
>> impossible for any small business (that's you) to comply with. I
>> know, you're shocked.
>
> I just got off the phone with the USCPA and in a nut shell I'm screwed.
> This act will only cover items made for children, ALL ITEMS MADE FOR
> CHILDREN, and has NO exemptions at this time. Any item that is made for a
> child is covered and will have to be tested. by a third party. The only
> light at the end of the tunnel is that they are considering a compliance
> for small business that may be less stringent but at this time it is not
> in effect. Even when it goes into effect if it does it will mean a lot of
> paperwork.
>

CC

"Curran Copeland"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

12/12/2008 11:36 AM


<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:b368617a-3891-40a3-8782-1fed284f0f0f@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> In August the Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act was passed as a
> reaction to the wonderful garbage China has been sending us in the
> form of lead painted toys. Unfortunately Uncle Sam, in all his
> infinite wisdom, has overreacted with a law that it is completely
> impossible for any small business (that's you) to comply with. I
> know, you're shocked.

I just got off the phone with the USCPA and in a nut shell I'm screwed.
This act will only cover items made for children, ALL ITEMS MADE FOR
CHILDREN, and has NO exemptions at this time. Any item that is made for a
child is covered and will have to be tested. by a third party. The only
light at the end of the tunnel is that they are considering a compliance for
small business that may be less stringent but at this time it is not in
effect. Even when it goes into effect if it does it will mean a lot of
paperwork.

CC

"Curran Copeland"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

12/12/2008 6:54 PM


"Jim Northey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ok so anyone know how this will affect the toys for tots campaigns that
> are everywhere?
> Jim
The way I read it and the way it was explalined to me is that those will be
treated as purchased/sold items (even though they are given away) and will
be subject to the requirments of the ACT.

Any one got a better take on it feel free to enlighten me, I would love to
be wrong here.

ch

"cm"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

10/12/2008 5:40 PM

And soon they may fuck up our healthcare, automotive, and banking systems.

cm


<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:b368617a-3891-40a3-8782-1fed284f0f0f@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> In August the Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act was passed as a
> reaction to the wonderful garbage China has been sending us in the
> form of lead painted toys. Unfortunately Uncle Sam, in all his
> infinite wisdom, has overreacted with a law that it is completely
> impossible for any small business (that's you) to comply with. I
> know, you're shocked.
>
> I encourage you to investigate the law and contact your
> representatives.
>
> Some links:
> http://www.cpsc.gov/about/cpsia/cpsia.html
> http://www.handmadetoyalliance.org/
>
>
> -Kevin

md

mac davis

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

17/12/2008 7:50 AM

On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 11:43:00 -0600, "Curran Copeland"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Here is the latest:
>
>Until Dec 21 2008 you must have certificate showing that none of the
>products contain lead (MSDS for paint) or the product must be a natural
>untreated material that does not contain lead. All products must be labeled
>with the date of Manufacture.
>
>After December 21 2008 all painted products must have 3rd party
>certification for lead content
>
>After Feb 10 2008 all products must have 3rd party certification to be sold.
>
>So basicaly anything made before December 21st 2008 is good if you don't use
>lead ln the product.
>
>Clear finishes are not considered paint at this time. Stains are not
>considered paint at this time.
>
>Get your letters and e-mails in to let them know how foolish this is.
>

So, until they change it (again), my process of Danish oil and buffing with the
Beall system would seem ok...


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

CC

"Curran Copeland"

in reply to [email protected] on 10/12/2008 2:35 PM

18/12/2008 10:42 AM


<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:b368617a-3891-40a3-8782-1fed284f0f0f@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> In August the Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act was passed as a
> reaction to the wonderful garbage China has been sending us in the
> form of lead painted toys. Unfortunately Uncle Sam, in all his
> infinite wisdom, has overreacted with a law that it is completely
> impossible for any small business (that's you) to comply with. I
> know, you're shocked.
>
> I encourage you to investigate the law and contact your
> representatives.
>
> Some links:
> http://www.cpsc.gov/about/cpsia/cpsia.html
> http://www.handmadetoyalliance.org/
>
>
> -Kevin

Curran-



I spoke with a person at the Consumer Product Safety Commission yesterday
regarding the third party lab testing fees. They have been hearing from
several hand crafted toymakers about this issue. As of right now, the fees
will go into effect. He said that they are working on a way to redefine the
way it reads so that hand crafted toys made from products that have already
been tested for lead don't have to be tested again. In about a month or so
they are going to release some clarifications regarding the issues that have
been brought up. I will follow up with the CPSC in January and forward to
you a copy of the document they release when I get it. Please feel free to
call me or email if you have any further questions.



Carrie Haas

United States Senator Jim Bunning (R-KY)

(202) 224-4343


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