In article <[email protected]>, krw
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Jul 2015 15:30:42 -0700 (PDT), gary
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Neither Lowes' nor Home Depot's websites list "Euro Screws". But since both
> >stores are within 3 miles of my house, I went to Lowes.
> >
> >The manager of Lowes' hardware department said they don't carry "Euro
> >Screws" and he said they had no other "fasteners" that would work for my
> >situation (i.e., the fasteners being attached to the underside of a
> >particle-board desktop that would resist the downward force from the
> >slide-out keyboard shelf on brackets below the desk top).
> >
> >I then found EZ-Lok threaded inserts on Amazon for $5.00 and added that item
> >to another item I ordered two days earlier so the shipping was FREE for both
> >items.
>
> Both Lowes and the BORG carry threaded inserts here. They may not be
> optimized for particle board but they work (they probably have ones
> intended for PB in their furniture hardware section).
This is what cross dowel nuts are for:
.<http://www.amazon.com/Buildyourcnc-Cross-Dowels-8-pack/dp/B001DSXTJ2>
Joe Gwinn
In article <[email protected]>,
gary <[email protected]> wrote:
> A cross dowel is used to join two pieces of wood. That's not what I needed
> to do.
The issue was how to get strong threads in particle board. Cross
dowels are used for this, in lots of cheap furniture.
Joe Gwinn
In article <[email protected]>, J.
Clarke <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <130720150900428359%[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
> >
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > gary <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > A cross dowel is used to join two pieces of wood. That's not what I
> > > needed
> > > to do.
> >
> > The issue was how to get strong threads in particle board. Cross
> > dowels are used for this, in lots of cheap furniture.
> >
> > Joe Gwinn
>
> While they are how do you get them in place in an existing desktop?
I don't have a drawing of the desktop, but assume that one can drill
holes.
Alternately, I've used a bit of sheet metal with threaded holes and a
machine screw from the other side.
Particle board just isn't that good a material for wood screws and the
like.
Joe Gwinn
On Tuesday, July 14, 2015 at 4:26:02 PM UTC-4, Puckdropper at dot wrote:
> FrozenNorth <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:=20
>=20
> > Not sure if anyone else has suggested this, but it seems to me, he=20
> > should epoxy a piece of real wood to the underside of the desktop and=
=20
> > then use normal wood screws.
> >=20
>=20
> I did... but was thinking about trying to keep the overall thickness clos=
e=20
> to the same. It would be fairly easy to take a piece of wood and glue it=
=20
> (epoxy or whatever you like) to the bottom of the desk top. Lots of glue=
=20
> surface area, especially if the pieces are flat.
>=20
Actually, it would be even better if the flat pieces were roughed up/groove=
d to give the epoxy something the bite into. A Dremel with a reinforced cut=
off wheel or saw blade would make quick work of randomly placed angled groo=
ves in both the wood and particle board (boad?) to lock both pieces togethe=
r.
Another suggestion that I don't think I've seen would be to bore some holes=
in the p-board and epoxy nuts into the bottom, then use bolts through the =
brackets. Once again, a Dremel could be used to rough up the sides of the n=
uts as well as the sides of the holes to give the epoxy some bite.
I drilled new holes for the sheet metal screws. The sheet metal screws were 5/8" long and 3/16" in diameter O.D.
The screws pulled out of the particle board when I was typing (not when sliding the keyboard shelf in and out).
Re: Elevator bolts: I don't want to drill the holes all the way through the particle board.
>
> Melamine, particle board, and MDF (medium density fiberboard)
>
>
>
> http://www.woodcraft.com/product/149260/highpoint-5x40-confirmat-starter-kit.aspx#sthash.QyVH1adx.dpuf
>But really, particle board is the wrong material if the OP=20
>needs to fasten into the face of it. Running screws into=20
>particle board only works if you're going into an edge - it's=20
>not a coincidence that all the screws are 1.5 inch long or=20
>more, they're intended to go deep into an edge.=20
This is the complete opposite of the facts. You can buy particle board scre=
ws from 1/2 inch long. Screws for the edge of particle board are called "ca=
rcase" screws, and have a coarser thread than normal P.B. screws. This is b=
ecause it is very hard to get a good fixing in the edge of P.B.
Have you ever seen P.B.?
On 7/11/2015 12:21 AM, gary wrote:
> What kind of screws should I use to connect a metal bracket to 3/4"-thick particle board?
>
> (The original screws are blunt -- they are not pointed (like a wood-screw) -- and the threads look more parallel than angled).
>
> How do I drill pilot holes for the new screws?
>
Not a normal wood screw,
Melamine, particle board, and MDF (medium density fiberboard)
http://www.woodcraft.com/product/149260/highpoint-5x40-confirmat-starter-kit.aspx#sthash.QyVH1adx.dpuf
On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 3:37:28 PM UTC-4, gary wrote:
> I already tried sheet metal screws but they just pulled out of the particle board under normal "keyboarding".
New holes or the existing (and probably) larger holes from the original euro screws?
If you used the original holes without any filler, I'm not at all surprised that they pulled out.
BTW, you could use elevator bolts flush mounted through the top and call it a "design feature". ;-)
This one is silver, but they come in black and bronze colors also:
http://www.yorkfasteners.com/images/bolts/ElevatorBoltsL.jpg
Neither Lowes' nor Home Depot's websites list "Euro Screws". But since bot=
h stores are within 3 miles of my house, I went to Lowes.=20
The manager of Lowes' hardware department said they don't carry "Euro Screw=
s" and he said they had no other "fasteners" that would work for my situati=
on (i.e., the fasteners being attached to the underside of a particle-board=
desktop that would resist the downward force from the slide-out keyboard s=
helf on brackets below the desk top).=20
I then found EZ-Lok threaded inserts on Amazon for $5.00 and added that ite=
m to another item I ordered two days earlier so the shipping was FREE for b=
oth items.
http://www.spax.us/
"gary" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
news:[email protected]...
> What kind of screws should I use to connect a metal bracket to 3/4"-thick
> particle board?
>
> (The original screws are blunt -- they are not pointed (like a
> wood-screw) -- and the threads look more parallel than angled).
>
> How do I drill pilot holes for the new screws?
>
>
>
>
>
gary <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I drilled new holes for the sheet metal screws. The sheet metal
> screws were the size of the holes in the bracket.
>
> Re: Elevator bolts: I don't want to drill the holes all the way
> through the particle board.
>
> The screws pulled out of the particle board when I was typing (not
> when sliding the keyboard shelf in and out).
Don't predrill, just put the screw in. Sheet metal screws usually have
pretty decent heads, so they're easy to start with the appropriate
screwdriver. (If you're using Phillips head screws, make sure you have the
right size. It will likely be a #2. To check, put the screw on the driver
and try to wiggle it around. If it moves easily, the driver is too small.)
Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.
FrozenNorth <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Not sure if anyone else has suggested this, but it seems to me, he
> should epoxy a piece of real wood to the underside of the desktop and
> then use normal wood screws.
>
I did... but was thinking about trying to keep the overall thickness close
to the same. It would be fairly easy to take a piece of wood and glue it
(epoxy or whatever you like) to the bottom of the desk top. Lots of glue
surface area, especially if the pieces are flat.
Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.
On Tuesday, July 14, 2015 at 1:07:00 PM UTC-4, krw wrote:
...snip...
> There is some confusion about exactly what he needs. Is he attaching
> to the bottom surface or the front edge?
I'm not sure why you think there is confusion. On July 11th he said:
"One leg of the "C"-bracket is screwed into the bottom of a pull-out keyboard shelf. The other leg of the bracket is screwed into the bottom of the desk top. The shelf and the desk top are each 3/4"-inch thick.
The screws cannot go all the way through the shelf or the desktop. "
On Mon, 13 Jul 2015 18:17:12 -0400, "J. Clarke"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <130720150900428359%[email protected]>,
>[email protected] says...
>>
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> gary <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > A cross dowel is used to join two pieces of wood. That's not what I needed
>> > to do.
>>
>> The issue was how to get strong threads in particle board. Cross
>> dowels are used for this, in lots of cheap furniture.
>>
>> Joe Gwinn
>
>While they are how do you get them in place in an existing desktop?
With a drill? Not sure what your question really is here.
I drilled new holes for the sheet metal screws. The sheet metal screws were the size of the holes in the bracket.
Re: Elevator bolts: I don't want to drill the holes all the way through the particle board.
The screws pulled out of the particle board when I was typing (not when sliding the keyboard shelf in and out).
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> The screw I need will go through one "leg" of a "C"-bracket and into a 3/4" thick particle board (without going through the board,
>
> The 5mm x 40mm screws your recommend have nominal length of 1 1/2" for use with 1/2" thick materials.
Personally I'd through-bolt it--if the other side has to be flat I'd use
flat-head machine screws.
But if it absolutely has to be a blind hole, your best bet is probably
to use something like these:
<http://www.mcmaster.com/#92105a016/=y08q4e>
Note that they come in different lengths and diameters and in several
styles.
In article <130720150900428359%[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> In article <[email protected]>,
> gary <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > A cross dowel is used to join two pieces of wood. That's not what I needed
> > to do.
>
> The issue was how to get strong threads in particle board. Cross
> dowels are used for this, in lots of cheap furniture.
>
> Joe Gwinn
While they are how do you get them in place in an existing desktop?
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
>
> On Mon, 13 Jul 2015 18:17:12 -0400, "J. Clarke"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >In article <130720150900428359%[email protected]>,
> >[email protected] says...
> >>
> >> In article <[email protected]>,
> >> gary <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> > A cross dowel is used to join two pieces of wood. That's not what I needed
> >> > to do.
> >>
> >> The issue was how to get strong threads in particle board. Cross
> >> dowels are used for this, in lots of cheap furniture.
> >>
> >> Joe Gwinn
> >
> >While they are how do you get them in place in an existing desktop?
>
> With a drill? Not sure what your question really is here.
He's fastening a keyboard drawer to the bottom of a desktop. That
typically means that he needs four fasteners, two near the edge and two
6-12 inches from the edge. Are you proposing that he manage somehow to
drill a straight 12-inch deep hole into an existing particle board
desktop from the edge, so as to put in the cross-dowel? If not, then
what are you proposing?
And if he objects to fasteners showing on the top of the desk, do you
really thing that holes drilled in the edge are going to be any more
acceptable?
gary <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> One leg of the "C"-bracket is screwed into the bottom of a pull-out
> keyboard shelf. The other leg of the bracket is screwed into the
> bottom of the desk top. The shelf and the desk top are each 3/4"-inch
> thick.
>
> The screws cannot go all the way through the shelf or the desktop.
The shelf isn't a problem, since gravity will hold it on the
bracket and the screws just need to stop it sliding around,
you could use most any screws there.
The top is a problem since gravity is going to pull the screws
out of the top. There are no screws which will work for that
application, particle board is simply too weak to hold a screw
in that orientation. Your solution is to replace the top with
a material more suitable for the purpose.
John
"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>> The top is a problem since gravity is going to pull the screws
>> out of the top. There are no screws which will work for that
>> application, particle board is simply too weak to hold a screw
>> in that orientation. Your solution is to replace the top with
>> a material more suitable for the purpose.
>
> Or - possibly - to glue a piece of wood to it.
That would probably work. Or you might be able to squirt
epoxy in the hole and strengthen the particle board some
to hold threads. Or perhaps use the kind of EZ-Lok threaded
inserts that have deep threads, and spread the load over
more volume.
But really, particle board is the wrong material if the OP
needs to fasten into the face of it. Running screws into
particle board only works if you're going into an edge - it's
not a coincidence that all the screws are 1.5 inch long or
more, they're intended to go deep into an edge.
John
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> If you used a proper sized sheet metal screw, pulling out
> and pushing in a keyboard drawer should not have been a problem at
> all. I'm guessing you did something wrong.
I think he's saying that working the keyboard, not pushing
the drawer in and out, is the problem. Perhaps he's an
excitable typist, and pounds the keyboard :-)
John
Neither Lowes' nor Home Depot's websites list "Euro Screws" but both stores=
are within 3 miles of my house so I went to Lowes.=20
The manager of Lowes' hardware department said they don't carry "Euro Screw=
s" and he said they had no other "fasteners" that would work for my situati=
on (i.e., the fasteners being attached to the underside of a particle-board=
desktop that would resist the downward force from the slide-out keyboard s=
helf on brackets below the desk top).
I then found EZ-Lok threaded inserts on Amazon for $5.00 and added that ite=
m to another item I ordered two days earlier so the shipping was FREE for b=
oth items.
Neither Lowes' nor Home Depot's websites list "Euro Screws" but both stores=
are within 3 miles of my house so I went to Lowes.
The manager of Lowes' hardware department said they don't carry "Euro Screw=
s" and he said they had no other "fasteners" that would work for my situati=
on (i.e., the fasteners on underside of a particle-board desktop that would=
resist the downward force from the slide-out keyboard shelf on brackets be=
low the desk top).
I then found EZ-Lok threaded inserts on Amazon for $5.00 and added that ite=
m to another item I ordered two days earlier so the shipping was FREE for b=
oth items.
On Tuesday, July 14, 2015 at 12:58:06 AM UTC-4, gary wrote:
> I drilled new holes for the sheet metal screws. The sheet metal screws were 5/8" long and 3/16" in diameter O.D.
>
> The screws pulled out of the particle board when I was typing (not when sliding the keyboard shelf in and out).
>
> Re: Elevator bolts: I don't want to drill the holes all the way through the particle board.
>
Good luck with your project.
On Sat, 11 Jul 2015 14:21:15 -0700 (PDT), gary
<[email protected]> wrote:
>A computer keyboard and a mouse sits on the shelf that gets pulled-out and pushed-in many times every use.
It sounds like you have a very cheap piece of furniture. The best
solution may be to scrap the whole thing and start over with something
higher quality.
On 7/11/2015 9:25 AM, gary wrote:
> The screw I need will go through one "leg" of a "C"-bracket and into a 3/4" thick particle board (without going through the board,
>
> The 5mm x 40mm screws your recommend have nominal length of 1 1/2" for use with 1/2" thick materials.
>
What I was recommending was confirmat screws and drill bits for these
screws. They come in all sizes.
I figured you would be able to determine the correct length, I was not
suggesting any particular length, just answering the questions that you
asked.
On Fri, 10 Jul 2015 22:21:49 -0700 (PDT), gary
<[email protected]> wrote:
>What kind of screws should I use to connect a metal bracket to 3/4"-thick particle board?
>
>(The original screws are blunt -- they are not pointed (like a wood-screw) -- and the threads look more parallel than angled).
>
>How do I drill pilot holes for the new screws?
>
In this application screws will definitely not work. You will need to
use an adhesive. Another alternative would be to add additional
structure.
On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 02:29:22 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> If you used a proper sized sheet metal screw, pulling out
>> and pushing in a keyboard drawer should not have been a problem at
>> all. I'm guessing you did something wrong.
>
>I think he's saying that working the keyboard, not pushing
>the drawer in and out, is the problem. Perhaps he's an
>excitable typist, and pounds the keyboard :-)
...or rests his arms on the keyboard (or the desk in front of it),
like I imagine most of us do.
On Sun, 12 Jul 2015 15:30:42 -0700 (PDT), gary
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Neither Lowes' nor Home Depot's websites list "Euro Screws". But since both stores are within 3 miles of my house, I went to Lowes.
>
>The manager of Lowes' hardware department said they don't carry "Euro Screws" and he said they had no other "fasteners" that would work for my situation (i.e., the fasteners being attached to the underside of a particle-board desktop that would resist the downward force from the slide-out keyboard shelf on brackets below the desk top).
>
>I then found EZ-Lok threaded inserts on Amazon for $5.00 and added that item to another item I ordered two days earlier so the shipping was FREE for both items.
Both Lowes and the BORG carry threaded inserts here. They may not be
optimized for particle board but they work (they probably have ones
intended for PB in their furniture hardware section).
John McCoy wrote:
> gary <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> One leg of the "C"-bracket is screwed into the bottom of a pull-out
>> keyboard shelf. The other leg of the bracket is screwed into the
>> bottom of the desk top. The shelf and the desk top are each
>> 3/4"-inch thick.
>>
>> The screws cannot go all the way through the shelf or the desktop.
>
> The shelf isn't a problem, since gravity will hold it on the
> bracket and the screws just need to stop it sliding around,
> you could use most any screws there.
>
> The top is a problem since gravity is going to pull the screws
> out of the top. There are no screws which will work for that
> application, particle board is simply too weak to hold a screw
> in that orientation. Your solution is to replace the top with
> a material more suitable for the purpose.
>
> John
I disagree John. While I do agree that particle board is a crummy material
to try to screw into. for the application, a decent sheet metal screw will
probably hold things in place for years, as long as the use of the drawer is
not rough. The thing is that you can't over torque the screws when putting
them in. It's easy to strip the hole and then the holding power is greatly
diminished. Would have been better though if the top were not made of
particle board.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
John McCoy wrote:
> gary <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> One leg of the "C"-bracket is screwed into the bottom of a pull-out
>> keyboard shelf. The other leg of the bracket is screwed into the
>> bottom of the desk top. The shelf and the desk top are each
>> 3/4"-inch thick.
>>
>> The screws cannot go all the way through the shelf or the desktop.
>
> The shelf isn't a problem, since gravity will hold it on the
> bracket and the screws just need to stop it sliding around,
> you could use most any screws there.
>
> The top is a problem since gravity is going to pull the screws
> out of the top. There are no screws which will work for that
> application, particle board is simply too weak to hold a screw
> in that orientation. Your solution is to replace the top with
> a material more suitable for the purpose.
Or - possibly - to glue a piece of wood to it.
gary wrote:
> I actually (finally) located one of the original screws.
>
> It's a "Euro Screw":
>
> http://media.allfasteners.com.au/images/product/large/3A.062-2163-1.jpg
>
> Are these screws available at Home Depot or Lowes? (I need only 8
> screws).
Did you look on their web sites?
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
gary wrote:
> Cross dowels (with connector bolts) are used to make strong joints
> when two pieces of wood are joined at a right angle.
>
> But I need a way to attach a bracket to the face of a particle board
> so the screws don't pull out of the particle board.
I remain unconvinced that sheet metal screws will not serve the purpose.
The weight of the tray and the keyboard should present no challenge to a
properly sized set of screws. Most of the pull on those screws is going to
be perpendicular to the threads, and at that, it's going to be a very low
amount of force. I'm just not convinced that you have such a big problem
here.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
gary <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I already tried sheet metal screws but they just pulled out of the
> particle board under normal "keyboarding".
You might try sheet metal angle brackets like you can get at HD/Lowes. And
glue.
gary wrote:
> I already tried sheet metal screws but they just pulled out of the
> particle board under normal "keyboarding".
That quite surprises me. Did you use large enough screws? I've used this
type of fastener in similar situations many times and have had no problems.
If you used a proper sized sheet metal screw, pulling out and pushing in a
keyboard drawer should not have been a problem at all. I'm guessing you did
something wrong.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
gary wrote:
> I already tried sheet metal screws but they just pulled out of the
> particle board under normal "keyboarding".
Another thought - particle board is commonly used for counter tops and is
secured by screws up into the particle board, through angle brackets in the
lower cupboards. They withstand years of moisture, etc. Granted - they are
not subject to a drawer sliding, but I just honestly do not believe a well
mounted drawer slide is going to present a problem.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
John McCoy wrote:
> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> If you used a proper sized sheet metal screw, pulling out
>> and pushing in a keyboard drawer should not have been a problem at
>> all. I'm guessing you did something wrong.
>
> I think he's saying that working the keyboard, not pushing
> the drawer in and out, is the problem. Perhaps he's an
> excitable typist, and pounds the keyboard :-)
>
Damn! Weird how we (I...) can get so doggoned focused on just one aspect of
the issue and completely miss something so obvious. I retract all of my
comments on the use of sheet metal screws for this application.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
gary wrote:
> I drilled new holes for the sheet metal screws. The sheet metal screws were 5/8" long and 3/16" in diameter O.D.
Can you make due with a fastener that goes all the way through? You may
sleep better?
>
> The screws pulled out of the particle board when I was typing (not when sliding the keyboard shelf in and out).
>
> Re: Elevator bolts: I don't want to drill the holes all the way through the particle board.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> Melamine, particle board, and MDF (medium density fiberboard)
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.woodcraft.com/product/149260/highpoint-5x40-confirmat-starter-kit.aspx#sthash.QyVH1adx.dpuf
On 7/14/2015 1:06 PM, krw wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 03:23:40 -0400, "J. Clarke"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>> says...
>>>
>>> On Mon, 13 Jul 2015 18:17:12 -0400, "J. Clarke"
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <130720150900428359%[email protected]>,
>>>> [email protected] says...
>>>>>
>>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>>> gary <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> A cross dowel is used to join two pieces of wood. That's not what I needed
>>>>>> to do.
>>>>>
>>>>> The issue was how to get strong threads in particle board. Cross
>>>>> dowels are used for this, in lots of cheap furniture.
>>>>>
>>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>>
>>>> While they are how do you get them in place in an existing desktop?
>>>
>>> With a drill? Not sure what your question really is here.
>>
>> He's fastening a keyboard drawer to the bottom of a desktop. That
>> typically means that he needs four fasteners, two near the edge and two
>> 6-12 inches from the edge. Are you proposing that he manage somehow to
>> drill a straight 12-inch deep hole into an existing particle board
>> desktop from the edge, so as to put in the cross-dowel? If not, then
>> what are you proposing?
>
> There is some confusion about exactly what he needs. Is he attaching
> to the bottom surface or the front edge?
>
>> And if he objects to fasteners showing on the top of the desk, do you
>> really thing that holes drilled in the edge are going to be any more
>> acceptable?
>
>
Not sure if anyone else has suggested this, but it seems to me, he
should epoxy a piece of real wood to the underside of the desktop and
then use normal wood screws.
--
Froz...
Quando omni flunkus, moritati
On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 03:23:40 -0400, "J. Clarke"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>says...
>>
>> On Mon, 13 Jul 2015 18:17:12 -0400, "J. Clarke"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <130720150900428359%[email protected]>,
>> >[email protected] says...
>> >>
>> >> In article <[email protected]>,
>> >> gary <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > A cross dowel is used to join two pieces of wood. That's not what I needed
>> >> > to do.
>> >>
>> >> The issue was how to get strong threads in particle board. Cross
>> >> dowels are used for this, in lots of cheap furniture.
>> >>
>> >> Joe Gwinn
>> >
>> >While they are how do you get them in place in an existing desktop?
>>
>> With a drill? Not sure what your question really is here.
>
>He's fastening a keyboard drawer to the bottom of a desktop. That
>typically means that he needs four fasteners, two near the edge and two
>6-12 inches from the edge. Are you proposing that he manage somehow to
>drill a straight 12-inch deep hole into an existing particle board
>desktop from the edge, so as to put in the cross-dowel? If not, then
>what are you proposing?
There is some confusion about exactly what he needs. Is he attaching
to the bottom surface or the front edge?
>And if he objects to fasteners showing on the top of the desk, do you
>really thing that holes drilled in the edge are going to be any more
>acceptable?