Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 12:14:28 -0500, Mike <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> In a recent issue of Fine Woodworking, the author recommended wet
>> sanding with Waterlox to level the surface after putting on a couple
>> of base coats. Is there any advantage to wet sanding with Waterlox
>> ($27/quart) VS mineral spirits ($9/gallon)?
>
> NO. That will leave you with sand in your finish. It works with BLO,
> where you wipe it off immediately, but Waterlox has varnish resins in
> it. They could/would dry with the sanded crap embedded in them.
Well - not so much. You would only wet sand after a primer is fully dried,
so there would be no risk of contaminants. Simply wipe off and tack it, and
you're good to go. I turn out mirror finishes on cars doing exactly this
sort of thing. Well... except for those damned dust nibs...
>
> If you're getting brushmarks in your Waterlox, you're rebrushing too
> late. Use the proper brush size and learn to work very wet if you want
> to brush. It self-levels quite well.
Absolutely - wet on wet is a secret too many people do not understand.
Forget about everything else and build wet on wet. At the end, you can
flatten out the finish and buff to the desired level of gloss.
>
> To denib between coats, I use dry 400 grit wet or dry sandpaper. Brown
> paper bags work well, too. Lightly grasped scraper blades held
> vertically can work if you're meticulous about it. (File and hone the
> scraper, but don't burnish up a burr.)
Unless there were real goobers in a coat, I would not even bother to denib
between coats. Nibs will flatten out in the end and the finish will be
perfect. No point in making extra work.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 12:14:28 -0500, Mike <[email protected]> wrote:
>In a recent issue of Fine Woodworking, the author recommended wet
>sanding with Waterlox to level the surface after putting on a couple of
>base coats. Is there any advantage to wet sanding with Waterlox
>($27/quart) VS mineral spirits ($9/gallon)?
I haven't tried it with Waterlox, but I imagine the author is after a
grain filling effect, resulting in a smoother finish than just using
solvent.
On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 06:35:12 -0800 (PST), Sonny <[email protected]>
wrote:
>> OK, what Michael is calling "leveling", I call denibbing. It most
>> certainly does not need to be done as he does it. I do it dry.
>> I'd love to find the 600 grit paper he uses, though.
>
>
>I get 600 grit at Autozone. 1000 & 2000 grit, also.
>
>Try the automotive outlets.
Thanks, Sonny. I'll check it out. 1200 grit popped up at NAPA a few
years ago.
--
Happiness lies in the joy of achievement and the thrill of creative effort.
-- Franklin D. Roosevelt
On 2/24/2012 3:28 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 2/24/2012 3:10 PM, Jim Weisgram wrote:
>> On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 12:14:28 -0500, Mike<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> In a recent issue of Fine Woodworking, the author recommended wet
>>> sanding with Waterlox to level the surface after putting on a couple of
>>> base coats. Is there any advantage to wet sanding with Waterlox
>>> ($27/quart) VS mineral spirits ($9/gallon)?
>>
>> I haven't tried it with Waterlox, but I imagine the author is after a
>> grain filling effect, resulting in a smoother finish than just using
>> solvent.
>
> Don't see how he'd get any grain filling to speak of after the base
> coats are already on (and presumably?) dry.
Because base oats do not always fill the grain completely, there is
still indentations at the grain and in particular with red oak.
On 2/24/2012 7:52 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 14:20:05 -0500, Mike<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 2/24/2012 1:53 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>> On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 12:14:28 -0500, Mike<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In a recent issue of Fine Woodworking, the author recommended wet
>>>> sanding with Waterlox to level the surface after putting on a couple of
>>>> base coats. Is there any advantage to wet sanding with Waterlox
>>>> ($27/quart) VS mineral spirits ($9/gallon)?
>>>
>>> NO. That will leave you with sand in your finish. It works with BLO,
>>> where you wipe it off immediately, but Waterlox has varnish resins in
>>> it. They could/would dry with the sanded crap embedded in them.
>>>
>>> If you're getting brushmarks in your Waterlox, you're rebrushing too
>>> late. Use the proper brush size and learn to work very wet if you want
>>> to brush. It self-levels quite well.
>>>
>>> It's a very liquid medium. I almost always wipe it on. This requires
>>> more coats but doesn't leave any brushmarks. Nor does spraying. I
>>> recommend either of these methods for Waterlox.
>>>
>>> To denib between coats, I use dry 400 grit wet or dry sandpaper. Brown
>>> paper bags work well, too. Lightly grasped scraper blades held
>>> vertically can work if you're meticulous about it. (File and hone the
>>> scraper, but don't burnish up a burr.)
>>>
>>
>> Thanks for the info.
>
> Jewelcome.
>
>
>> No brush marks. I am, as you say, working it very wet. I settled on 2
>> coats as a base before leveling. After leveling, I am wiping it on.
>
> It's extremely well behaved at leveling itself. You're not working in
> 90+ temps with a fan, are you? "So, if there are no brush marks, what
> in the blood 'ell are you leveling?" Larry wondered aloud, with huge,
> variously-colored question marks floating around his head.
I guess denibing would be a better term. I used the term used in the
article. Temp is low 60's which is barely high enough according to the
Waterlox web site.
>
>
>> Beside the problem you mention (which hadn't occurred to me), it seemed
>> a waste to use such an expensive product as a lubricant.
>
> Yes, another very good reason NOT to do that. What author?
Michael Pekovich
>
>
>> I didn't
>> notice any grit on my test board, but a test board is one thing and a 10
>> square foot panel is another.
>
> You betcha. Wiped on, Waterlox dries to the touch in under 15 mins.
> Brushed, it could take half an hour, but not much more.
>
> --
> Happiness lies in the joy of achievement and the thrill of creative effort.
> -- Franklin D. Roosevelt
On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 14:20:05 -0500, Mike <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 2/24/2012 1:53 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 12:14:28 -0500, Mike<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> In a recent issue of Fine Woodworking, the author recommended wet
>>> sanding with Waterlox to level the surface after putting on a couple of
>>> base coats. Is there any advantage to wet sanding with Waterlox
>>> ($27/quart) VS mineral spirits ($9/gallon)?
>>
>> NO. That will leave you with sand in your finish. It works with BLO,
>> where you wipe it off immediately, but Waterlox has varnish resins in
>> it. They could/would dry with the sanded crap embedded in them.
>>
>> If you're getting brushmarks in your Waterlox, you're rebrushing too
>> late. Use the proper brush size and learn to work very wet if you want
>> to brush. It self-levels quite well.
>>
>> It's a very liquid medium. I almost always wipe it on. This requires
>> more coats but doesn't leave any brushmarks. Nor does spraying. I
>> recommend either of these methods for Waterlox.
>>
>> To denib between coats, I use dry 400 grit wet or dry sandpaper. Brown
>> paper bags work well, too. Lightly grasped scraper blades held
>> vertically can work if you're meticulous about it. (File and hone the
>> scraper, but don't burnish up a burr.)
>>
>
>Thanks for the info.
Jewelcome.
>No brush marks. I am, as you say, working it very wet. I settled on 2
>coats as a base before leveling. After leveling, I am wiping it on.
It's extremely well behaved at leveling itself. You're not working in
90+ temps with a fan, are you? "So, if there are no brush marks, what
in the blood 'ell are you leveling?" Larry wondered aloud, with huge,
variously-colored question marks floating around his head.
>Beside the problem you mention (which hadn't occurred to me), it seemed
>a waste to use such an expensive product as a lubricant.
Yes, another very good reason NOT to do that. What author?
>I didn't
>notice any grit on my test board, but a test board is one thing and a 10
>square foot panel is another.
You betcha. Wiped on, Waterlox dries to the touch in under 15 mins.
Brushed, it could take half an hour, but not much more.
--
Happiness lies in the joy of achievement and the thrill of creative effort.
-- Franklin D. Roosevelt
Mike wrote:
> In a recent issue of Fine Woodworking, the author recommended wet
> sanding with Waterlox to level the surface after putting on a couple of
> base coats. Is there any advantage to wet sanding with Waterlox
> ($27/quart) VS mineral spirits ($9/gallon)?
I saw an article a few years ago that recommended doing this. Except the
process outlined was much more involved than what you refer to. It included
the base coat and the wet sanding, followed up by about six more coats, each
sanded flat with finer and finer grits.
I have used this method and the finish makes a baby's butt look and feel
rough.
Deb
On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 13:10:45 -0800, Jim Weisgram
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 12:14:28 -0500, Mike <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>In a recent issue of Fine Woodworking, the author recommended wet
>>sanding with Waterlox to level the surface after putting on a couple of
>>base coats. Is there any advantage to wet sanding with Waterlox
>>($27/quart) VS mineral spirits ($9/gallon)?
>
>I haven't tried it with Waterlox, but I imagine the author is after a
>grain filling effect, resulting in a smoother finish than just using
>solvent.
Here's the article. I have no idea what he's after but I disagree with
it. I do agree, however, when Waterlox states "Waterlox: The last and
only finish you will ever need. ;)
<http://www.waterlox.com/uploads/docs/4.11%20Wiping%20Varnish_The%20Only%20Finish%20You%27ll%20Ever%20Need_FWW__634474589121325461.pdf>
It's a direct link so I couldn't tinyurl it. I hope the GT/LT work.
OK, what Michael is calling "leveling", I call denibbing. It most
certainly does not need to be done as he does it. I do it dry.
I'd love to find the 600 grit paper he uses, though.
I call it leveling when the brush you used on the paint/finish leaves
physical hills and valleys which show in the dried product. That has
to be physically leveled by scraping or severe sanding and recoating.
He also apparently believes that there need to be about 25 coats of
Waterlox on the wood for a protective finish. There don't. 6-8 wiped
or 3 brushed coats put on plenty of finish unless you want a piano
finish, where I'd use 50 hand-rubbed coats of sprayed lacquer instead
of Waterlox. (I prefer satin gloss, so I'm easy.)
LJ--the Waterlox Junkie
--
Happiness lies in the joy of achievement and the thrill of creative effort.
-- Franklin D. Roosevelt
On 2/24/2012 3:10 PM, Jim Weisgram wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 12:14:28 -0500, Mike<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> In a recent issue of Fine Woodworking, the author recommended wet
>> sanding with Waterlox to level the surface after putting on a couple of
>> base coats. Is there any advantage to wet sanding with Waterlox
>> ($27/quart) VS mineral spirits ($9/gallon)?
>
> I haven't tried it with Waterlox, but I imagine the author is after a
> grain filling effect, resulting in a smoother finish than just using
> solvent.
Don't see how he'd get any grain filling to speak of after the base
coats are already on (and presumably?) dry.
I've not used it so don't have any specific experience. I'd guess one
advantage would be if it isn't fully cured yet, the additional finish
wouldn't be so likely to dissolve the first layer.
I looked at the Waterlox site; they do recommend touchup to knock down
high spots but don't mention wet/dry/wetting agent at all that I can
tell, leaving you on your own.
Having not ever been anywhere that the products were readily available
on the shelf, I wasn't aware that it's actually not a wipe-on finish...
I can't see it would hurt w/ the above caveat. Clearly, as w/ all
finishing experimenting, try on a sample board similar to the project
instead of discovering a problem on the project itself.
--
On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 12:14:28 -0500, Mike <[email protected]> wrote:
>In a recent issue of Fine Woodworking, the author recommended wet
>sanding with Waterlox to level the surface after putting on a couple of
>base coats. Is there any advantage to wet sanding with Waterlox
>($27/quart) VS mineral spirits ($9/gallon)?
NO. That will leave you with sand in your finish. It works with BLO,
where you wipe it off immediately, but Waterlox has varnish resins in
it. They could/would dry with the sanded crap embedded in them.
If you're getting brushmarks in your Waterlox, you're rebrushing too
late. Use the proper brush size and learn to work very wet if you want
to brush. It self-levels quite well.
It's a very liquid medium. I almost always wipe it on. This requires
more coats but doesn't leave any brushmarks. Nor does spraying. I
recommend either of these methods for Waterlox.
To denib between coats, I use dry 400 grit wet or dry sandpaper. Brown
paper bags work well, too. Lightly grasped scraper blades held
vertically can work if you're meticulous about it. (File and hone the
scraper, but don't burnish up a burr.)
--
Happiness lies in the joy of achievement and the thrill of creative effort.
-- Franklin D. Roosevelt
On 2/24/2012 1:53 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 12:14:28 -0500, Mike<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> In a recent issue of Fine Woodworking, the author recommended wet
>> sanding with Waterlox to level the surface after putting on a couple of
>> base coats. Is there any advantage to wet sanding with Waterlox
>> ($27/quart) VS mineral spirits ($9/gallon)?
>
> NO. That will leave you with sand in your finish. It works with BLO,
> where you wipe it off immediately, but Waterlox has varnish resins in
> it. They could/would dry with the sanded crap embedded in them.
>
> If you're getting brushmarks in your Waterlox, you're rebrushing too
> late. Use the proper brush size and learn to work very wet if you want
> to brush. It self-levels quite well.
>
> It's a very liquid medium. I almost always wipe it on. This requires
> more coats but doesn't leave any brushmarks. Nor does spraying. I
> recommend either of these methods for Waterlox.
>
> To denib between coats, I use dry 400 grit wet or dry sandpaper. Brown
> paper bags work well, too. Lightly grasped scraper blades held
> vertically can work if you're meticulous about it. (File and hone the
> scraper, but don't burnish up a burr.)
>
> --
> Happiness lies in the joy of achievement and the thrill of creative effort.
> -- Franklin D. Roosevelt
Thanks for the info.
No brush marks. I am, as you say, working it very wet. I settled on 2
coats as a base before leveling. After leveling, I am wiping it on.
Beside the problem you mention (which hadn't occurred to me), it seemed
a waste to use such an expensive product as a lubricant. I didn't
notice any grit on my test board, but a test board is one thing and a 10
square foot panel is another.