Hi! Do not BITE! It is a trap- pretty little thing just tempting you
into a trap.
On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:36:26 -0600, Unisaw A100 <[email protected]>
wrote:
>George M. Kazaka wrote:
>>No saw should ever be waxed, the absolute worst thing you can do to the saw
>>table top.
>
>
>
>I look up.
>
>I see the hook.
>
>The sunlight makes a shiny star right on the point.
>
>Knowing better, and knowing that little star means a barb at
>the end I still ask,
>
>sigh...
>
>Why?
>
>UA100, fully realizing George has the throttle set for
>troll, just like to see if he can play out line and finesse
>setting the hook...
<[email protected]> wrote in message
> On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 21:11:20 GMT, "Swingman" wrote:
>
> >I agree with you, George ... once you've seen/dealt with "fisheye" from
> >silicone, you want no part of it contaminating your wood. I use mostly
> >TopCote the past couple of years, but using Johnson Paste Wax on tool
> >surfaces has never posed a remote problem in that regard.
> silicone is NOT wax.
No shit, Shinola?
it's a polymer of oxygen and silicon. it's not
> even a lipid. no carbon in it. silicone should never come near a wood
> shop....
> Bridger
Some waxes contain silicone ... and that fact is the reason for this
discussion.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03
wrote in message
> >> On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 21:11:20 GMT, "Swingman" wrote:
> >>
> >> >I agree with you, George ... once you've seen/dealt with "fisheye"
from
> >> >silicone, you want no part of it contaminating your wood. I use mostly
> >> >TopCote the past couple of years, but using Johnson Paste Wax on tool
> >> >surfaces has never posed a remote problem in that regard.
> >
> >
> >> silicone is NOT wax.
> >
> >No shit, Shinola?
>
> it's not shit or shinola either.
Glad you could clear that up ... not many have enough experience with both
to tell the difference.
> >
> >it's a polymer of oxygen and silicon. it's not
> >> even a lipid. no carbon in it. silicone should never come near a wood
> >> shop....
> >> Bridger
> >
> >Some waxes contain silicone ... and that fact is the reason for this
> >discussion.
>
> that would be a blend of wax and silicone. this is a common thing in
> automotive polishes, but even there imho it's a bad idea.
>
> paste wax- all or mostly caranauba with no silicone- is (as has been
> pounded in this thread) an excellent treatment for sliding surfaces on
> woodworking machines
> Bridger
Really? ... don't look now, but that is EXACTLY what we've been saying
throughout this thread in response to George saying not use any wax for that
purpose.
Guess you just made it official, eh?
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03
RedEd asks:
>Should one wax an aluminum table top? Or is there another recommended
>treatment?
If the aluminum is anodized, it shouldn't need corrosion-proofing. But if it's
not, aluminum has a particularly nasty black form of corrosion (surface only:
if left alone, it won't keep corroding like ferrous metals). And many of the
aluminum table tops I've seen could use a little help in the slickness
department.
So, on balance, I'd wax.
Charlie Self
"Say what you will about the ten commandments, you must always come back to the
pleasant fact that there are only ten of them." H. L. Mencken
On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:29:54 -0700, "George M. Kazaka"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>The wax can transfer to your wood, then when you apply the finish Oh my
>what fum we will have.
Which finishes are affected by this truly insignificant quantity of
wax ?
Silicones, now you're talking, but I just won't have any of them in
the workshop.
--
Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods
With lure firmly fixed in mouth ... Never had a problem with that as long as
I used a wax with no silicone content. However, a little judicious sanding,
as you so strongly recommended in a previous thread, IIRC, should set things
right.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03
"George M. Kazaka" wrote in message
> The wax can transfer to your wood, then when you apply the finish Oh my
> what fum we will have.
>
> Years ago when they didn't have some of the spray stuff that they have now
> during the damp periods we had to steel wool the4 machine tops every
morning
> some wood spray a coat of lacquer that in a busy shop did not last to long
> But wax was an all time no no,
>
> I know that some here on the rec do it and advise others to do it,
> I was expecting to get flamed from what i said
>
> Well hell the day isn't over yet is it.
>
> But glad you asked
> George
No saw should ever be waxed, the absolute worst thing you can do to the saw
table top.
"RedEd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Should one wax an aluminum table top? Or is there another recommended
> treatment?
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.544 / Virus Database: 338 - Release Date: 11/27/03
>
>
On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 01:18:00 GMT, Unisaw A100 <[email protected]>
wrote:
>>paste wax- all or mostly caranauba with no silicone- is (as has been
>>pounded in this thread) an excellent treatment for sliding surfaces on
>>woodworking machines
>> Bridger
>
>
>Me? For sliding and bearing surfaces I'm a paraffin (a hard
>wax, not kerosene Jeff) man myself.
>
>UA100
I dunno.... Parraffin -the candle wax stuff- seems to me like it would
hold sawdust better than caranauba. when I was a hammer swingin' house
builder in southern california I'd put a heavy coat of beeswax (a
little softer than parraffin) on my hammer handle to make it less
slippery. I'd put a thin coat of it on plane soles to make them more
slippery. it did both fine, and a block of beeswax was easier to carry
around than a tin of paste wax and the associated rags and such. the
hammer handle I didn't care how much dust it trapped. now, the plane
makes shavings, not dust, and the layer was very slight. I never had a
problem with the wax getting dirty. these days I work mostly in the
shop. I use caranauba on plane soles and that seems to work fine also.
and if I'm driving a bunch of nails, it's with a nail gun.
as far as saw table tops, I've been using caranauba all along. never
tried parraffin... but if it works there like it does on a plane sole
it should be fine. It does seem though like it would be more trouble
than caranauba to apply evenly to a large surface like that. do you
dissolve it in a solvent or melt it on or sumpin? and how would you
say the two compare as far as protecting the iron from rust?
has anyone else here soaked iron in linseed oil prior to waxing it?
Bridger
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> George Kazaka writes:
>
> >No saw should ever be waxed, the absolute worst thing you can do to the saw
> >table top.
>
> Give me a reason. I've been waxing table saw tops for almost 50 years, so why
> should I change now?
>
>
> Charlie Self
Oh no! He got Charlie!
George Kazaka writes:
>No saw should ever be waxed, the absolute worst thing you can do to the saw
>table top.
Give me a reason. I've been waxing table saw tops for almost 50 years, so why
should I change now?
Charlie Self
"Say what you will about the ten commandments, you must always come back to the
pleasant fact that there are only ten of them." H. L. Mencken
In article <[email protected]>, Unisaw A100
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Then again, it could be just me.
Well now, I wouldn't say that...
djb
--
There are no socks in my email address.
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"
On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 04:08:36 GMT, Mark <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>QC couldn't/ wouldn't pass the repair with fish eye.
>
>I gave it my best for that shift.
You guys didn't have any "anti-fisheye" stuff? <G>
This stuff is actually MORE silicone, which allows the fisheye to
become one large fisheye. Of course, once you use it, you need to
use it all the time in that spray gear.
Barry
You'd do better _reading_ than "thinking".
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03
"Unisaw A100" wrote in message
> Swingman wrote:
> >Guess you just made it official, eh?
>
>
> I'm thinking what Bridge is thinking is what a dick you are.
>
> I'm thinking what Bridge is thinking is probably right.
>
> Then again, it could be just me.
While not as totally irrelevant as your "Silicone is NOT wax" remark was,
I'll take the same condescending high road as you did and point out that
it's properly carnauba, NOT "caranauba".
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03
<[email protected]> wrote in message
<snip>
> I dunno.... Parraffin -the candle wax stuff- seems to me like it would
> hold sawdust better than caranauba.
<snip>
> as far as saw table tops, I've been using caranauba all along. never
> tried parraffin
B a r r y B u r k e J r . wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 04:08:36 GMT, Mark <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>>QC couldn't/ wouldn't pass the repair with fish eye.
>>
>>I gave it my best for that shift.
>
>
> You guys didn't have any "anti-fisheye" stuff? <G>
Laugh you *@%$)@*!
<s>
A friend use to do bodywork on old cars.
He could not get rid of fisheye on the window frame of an old car. Seems
the owner used silicone rubber dressing on the window seals. I'm left to
wonder about all the fools who used silicone based car 'waxes'.
The best anti silicone story was told me by the owner of Youngstown
Spray Equipment. Yo Spray installed a paint line for a customer. Shortly
after the line started fisheye started showing up in the finish. The
problem was traced to a mechanic using a spray lubricant in the
mechanics shop where the air compressor was kept. The story goes the
mechanic used the lube only a few times but once it was sucked into the
compressor the air system was contaminated.
--
Mark
N.E. Ohio
Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens,
A.K.A. Mark Twain)
When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the
suspense. (Gaz, r.moto)
On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 20:27:53 GMT, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>> On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 21:11:20 GMT, "Swingman" wrote:
>>
>> >I agree with you, George ... once you've seen/dealt with "fisheye" from
>> >silicone, you want no part of it contaminating your wood. I use mostly
>> >TopCote the past couple of years, but using Johnson Paste Wax on tool
>> >surfaces has never posed a remote problem in that regard.
>
>
>> silicone is NOT wax.
>
>No shit, Shinola?
it's not shit or shinola either.
>
>it's a polymer of oxygen and silicon. it's not
>> even a lipid. no carbon in it. silicone should never come near a wood
>> shop....
>> Bridger
>
>Some waxes contain silicone ... and that fact is the reason for this
>discussion.
that would be a blend of wax and silicone. this is a common thing in
automotive polishes, but even there imho it's a bad idea.
paste wax- all or mostly caranauba with no silicone- is (as has been
pounded in this thread) an excellent treatment for sliding surfaces on
woodworking machines
Bridger
"Unisaw A100" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> George M. Kazaka wrote:
> >No saw should ever be waxed, the absolute worst thing you can do to the
saw
> >table top.
>
> I look up.
>
> I see the hook.
>
> The sunlight makes a shiny star right on the point.
>
> Knowing better, and knowing that little star means a barb at
> the end I still ask,
>
> sigh...
>
> Why?
>
> UA100, fully realizing George has the throttle set for
> troll, just like to see if he can play out line and finesse
> setting the hook...
LOL.....just tell him to use neet.....waxing really hurts.
--
© Jon Down ®
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=lamblies&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=25
[email protected] wrote:
> silicone is NOT wax. it's a polymer of oxygen and silicon. it's not
> even a lipid. no carbon in it. silicone should never come near a wood
> shop....
Silicone should not come near anything.
I hate the stuff with a passion.
--
Mark
N.E. Ohio
Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens,
A.K.A. Mark Twain)
When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the
suspense. (Gaz, r.moto)
Unisaw A100 wrote:
> Mark wrote:
>
>>I hate the stuff with a passion.
>
>
>
> More than say, puss?
I was helping with either a C or D check on a DC-8. One of my tasks was
a write up or time change cargo door seal. Apparently the seal had been
well out of reg for an amount of time. It had been doctored along with
at least one, probably two tubes of silicone.
The door skin had suffered damage requiring blending, prep and prime.
Probably from what took out the door seal.
There was nothing I could do to get rid of the silicone. And I had
access to some nasty shit.
QC couldn't/ wouldn't pass the repair with fish eye.
I gave it my best for that shift.
I think they wound up sending it to paint or structures.
I didn't like the stuff much before this, hated it since.
To be fair to silicone, it's more the idiots who are using it that cause
problems. I've found the clear crap on engine soft plugs holding the cam
in.
The stuffs great for fish tanks and caulking, keep it away from about
everything else.
--
--
Mark
N.E. Ohio
Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens,
A.K.A. Mark Twain)
When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the
suspense. (Gaz, r.moto)
George M. Kazaka wrote:
>No saw should ever be waxed, the absolute worst thing you can do to the saw
>table top.
I look up.
I see the hook.
The sunlight makes a shiny star right on the point.
Knowing better, and knowing that little star means a barb at
the end I still ask,
sigh...
Why?
UA100, fully realizing George has the throttle set for
troll, just like to see if he can play out line and finesse
setting the hook...
On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 02:44:19 GMT, Unisaw A100 <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Swingman wrote:
>>Guess you just made it official, eh?
>
>
>I'm thinking what Bridge is thinking is what a dick you are.
>
>I'm thinking what Bridge is thinking is probably right.
>
>Then again, it could be just me.
>
>UA100
um.... no.
it isn't just you.
Bridger
Bridger:
>do you dissolve it in a solvent or melt it on or sumpin?
For surfaces like saw tops I scribble it on like a crayon.
Miter slots just get it rubbed up and down the channel a
couple/few times. Trunnions get a good scribbling where I
can and then I work the mechanism back and forth (to and fro
David).
What ends up happening is, those tiny little spots where
iron isn't meeting iron (as in the case of parts moving
against each other) get filled in a little with the paraffin
to the point where, well , it's a filler and it slickens
things up.
>and how would you say the two compare as far as protecting the iron from rust?
Um, I, well, I have to, well, OK, I LIVE ON THE EDGE OF LAKE
MICHIGAN WITH THE GULF STREAM AT MY BACK! THERE
IS NO HUMIDITY! (1)
It also helps that I have a sealed (concrete) floor in the
shop and I do run a dehumidifier during the months of
*higher* humidity.
>has anyone else here soaked iron in linseed oil prior to waxing it?
I'd need something the size of a wading pool for my saw top.
(1) Now some local who was born and raised here will lie
and say there is. To that I say, New Orleans.
UA100
Yes. Things slide much easier with wax.
"RedEd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Should one wax an aluminum table top? Or is there another recommended
> treatment?
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.544 / Virus Database: 338 - Release Date: 11/27/03
>
>
The wax can transfer to your wood, then when you apply the finish Oh my
what fum we will have.
Years ago when they didn't have some of the spray stuff that they have now
during the damp periods we had to steel wool the4 machine tops every morning
some wood spray a coat of lacquer that in a busy shop did not last to long
But wax was an all time no no,
I know that some here on the rec do it and advise others to do it,
I was expecting to get flamed from what i said
Well hell the day isn't over yet is it.
But glad you asked
George
"Unisaw A100" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> George M. Kazaka wrote:
> >No saw should ever be waxed, the absolute worst thing you can do to the
saw
> >table top.
>
>
>
> I look up.
>
> I see the hook.
>
> The sunlight makes a shiny star right on the point.
>
> Knowing better, and knowing that little star means a barb at
> the end I still ask,
>
> sigh...
>
> Why?
>
> UA100, fully realizing George has the throttle set for
> troll, just like to see if he can play out line and finesse
> setting the hook...
Stick to your usual "pant load" asides, Keith ... Bridger's a big boy and
can take care of himself.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03
"Unisaw A100" wrote in message
> Swingman:
> >While not as totally irrelevant as your "Silicone is NOT wax" remark was,
> >I'll take the same condescending high road as you did and point out that
> >it's properly carnauba, NOT "caranauba".
>
> Hey Bridge, I think he just stuck his tongue out at you.
>
> A' yup, I do believe he did there just now.
>
> UA100, trolling for moles...
On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 20:03:45 GMT, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>While not as totally irrelevant as your "Silicone is NOT wax" remark was,
>I'll take the same condescending high road as you did and point out that
>it's properly carnauba, NOT "caranauba".
not always. try:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=caranauba&btnG=Google+Search
Yabbut, check out the first four words on your reference page: "Did you
mean: carnauba? " ... that's a pretty damn sure google sign of a
misspelled/wrong search word.
In any event, close enough for a woodworking forum . everything else is just
cock-a-doodle-doo.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03
<[email protected]> wrote in message
> On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 20:03:45 GMT, "Swingman" wrote:
>
> >it's properly carnauba, NOT "caranauba".
>
>
> not always. try:
>
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=caranauba&btnG=Google+Search
Swingman:
>While not as totally irrelevant as your "Silicone is NOT wax" remark was,
>I'll take the same condescending high road as you did and point out that
>it's properly carnauba, NOT "caranauba".
Hey Bridge, I think he just stuck his tongue out at you.
A' yup, I do believe he did there just now.
UA100, trolling for moles...
I agree with you, George ... once you've seen/dealt with "fisheye" from
silicone, you want no part of it contaminating your wood. I use mostly
TopCote the past couple of years, but using Johnson Paste Wax on tool
surfaces has never posed a remote problem in that regard.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03
"George M. Kazaka" wrote in message
> Touche,
> But why take the chance ?????
> "Swingman"wrote in message
> > With lure firmly fixed in mouth ... Never had a problem with that as
long
> as
> > I used a wax with no silicone content. However, a little judicious
> sanding,
> > as you so strongly recommended in a previous thread, IIRC, should set
> things
> > right.
On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 21:11:20 GMT, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I agree with you, George ... once you've seen/dealt with "fisheye" from
>silicone, you want no part of it contaminating your wood. I use mostly
>TopCote the past couple of years, but using Johnson Paste Wax on tool
>surfaces has never posed a remote problem in that regard.
silicone is NOT wax. it's a polymer of oxygen and silicon. it's not
even a lipid. no carbon in it. silicone should never come near a wood
shop....
Bridger
RedEd wrote:
> Should one wax an aluminum table top? Or is there another recommended
> treatment?
Already debated to death, but I wanted to offer the perspective of direct
personal experience. I've had an aluminum table saw for 5-6 years now.
The two factors mentioned both play a big part in my decision to keep it
waxed.
Oxidized aluminum rubs off easily, and it leaves black streaks all over the
wood. These streaks are a bitch to get off/out, and they're just not cool
at all. It also really does make wood slide much more easily. There's
little doubt when the table needs another shot of wax.
I use Johnson's on it. I've never had any finish problems from wax rubbing
off onto the wood.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Here's my $.02:
1) Aluminum is crappy material for saw tables, planer beds, etc. It
has much more "tooth" than cast iron and, therefore. there is more
friction to overcome when pushing something (like a piece of wood)
over it. It is used because it is CHEAPER not because it is better.
2) Alum. can (as has been pointed out) cause discoloration of the wood
as it it softer than cast iron and can actually be transfered to the
wood.
3) Anodizing is only a temporary solution since the coating will wear
off.
4) Wax does not cause fish eye. Silicone causes fish eye. Period.
5) "Good quality" pastewax does not contain silicone.
6) "Good quality" pastewax, applied to a metal table, allowed to "dry"
for a few min. and buffed out with a clean rag, will not transfer to
your wood.
7) You can wax your tables (cast iron, aluminum, PL, wood...whatever)
with impunity as long as you follow step six.
How do I know all of this? Because I have been regularly waxing my
tables (with TreWax) for over 30 years and I have never had any
problems. This might be a good time to point out that: 1) I have also
been using lacquer finishes for 30 years and that 2) because I forbid
anything containing silicone in my shop I have never had a problem
with fish eye.
Wax away.
DD
"It's easy when you know how..."
Johnny Shines
Touche,
But why take the chance ?????
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> With lure firmly fixed in mouth ... Never had a problem with that as long
as
> I used a wax with no silicone content. However, a little judicious
sanding,
> as you so strongly recommended in a previous thread, IIRC, should set
things
> right.
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 9/21/03
>
>
> "George M. Kazaka" wrote in message
> > The wax can transfer to your wood, then when you apply the finish Oh my
> > what fum we will have.
> >
> > Years ago when they didn't have some of the spray stuff that they have
now
> > during the damp periods we had to steel wool the4 machine tops every
> morning
> > some wood spray a coat of lacquer that in a busy shop did not last to
long
> > But wax was an all time no no,
> >
> > I know that some here on the rec do it and advise others to do it,
> > I was expecting to get flamed from what i said
> >
> > Well hell the day isn't over yet is it.
> >
> > But glad you asked
> > George
>
>
On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 08:01:16 -0700, "George M. Kazaka"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>No saw should ever be waxed, the absolute worst thing you can do to the saw
>table top.
Look, some of us just have very hairy saws.
And it's a sensitive subject, so don't take the piss.
Andy Dingley wrote:
> Silicones, now you're talking, but I just won't have any of them in
> the workshop.
That's right, keep wimminz out of the shop 'nless they have *real*
gajumbies...
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
For waht it is worth, gunsmaiaths have a terrible time bluing a weapon
that has been sprayed with silicone. If it will soak that deeply into
metal (and metal DOES absorb) then it must be potent stuff. I hate it
inide the house.
On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 10:57:18 -0800, David DeCristoforo
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Here's my $.02:
>1) Aluminum is crappy material for saw tables, planer beds, etc. It
>has much more "tooth" than cast iron and, therefore. there is more
>friction to overcome when pushing something (like a piece of wood)
>over it. It is used because it is CHEAPER not because it is better.
>2) Alum. can (as has been pointed out) cause discoloration of the wood
>as it it softer than cast iron and can actually be transfered to the
>wood.
>3) Anodizing is only a temporary solution since the coating will wear
>off.
>4) Wax does not cause fish eye. Silicone causes fish eye. Period.
>5) "Good quality" pastewax does not contain silicone.
>6) "Good quality" pastewax, applied to a metal table, allowed to "dry"
>for a few min. and buffed out with a clean rag, will not transfer to
>your wood.
>7) You can wax your tables (cast iron, aluminum, PL, wood...whatever)
>with impunity as long as you follow step six.
>How do I know all of this? Because I have been regularly waxing my
>tables (with TreWax) for over 30 years and I have never had any
>problems. This might be a good time to point out that: 1) I have also
>been using lacquer finishes for 30 years and that 2) because I forbid
>anything containing silicone in my shop I have never had a problem
>with fish eye.
>Wax away.
>DD
>
>
>
>"It's easy when you know how..."
>Johnny Shines