OT: The TRUE Bottom Line. Supporting Our Troops is not always what you were MADE to think!

Clinton's BJ was actually perceived world wide with not a lot of attention,
it's the Jesus Nuts and the Media here that made it what it was here. In
Europe. you think a US sex scandal is even registered on the meter? Asia
never gave it any attention either. Unlike Bush, Clinton could atleast get
it up! As for looks ? I'm performance orientated myself! Was it wrong yeah?
Did anyone die? Christ they go nut's here with seeing a
nipple.............like little kids!

If you notice, I temper myself depending on who's reply I'm getting, If you
were Mark & Jose Well you know! As for butting heads? Not anyone here I
can't beat? So I haven't even really tried. I have a hideous curse, I'm
right, I'm Always right! I think my mother placed it upon me because I was a
real smartass as a kid as I am now. I've been in situations in the military
and in business where I was right, but lost the advantage, because I didn't
kiss ass or bend or temper my message. I ain't gonna change and sell myself
out either. The thing is shit is going to get pretty bad around here, shit
floats for only so long then it sinks and like in Egypt and on the Titanic,
the Captain and crew will take off and there won't be a lot of lifeboats
left and all that is needed is to dump this one world order shit and simply
go back to being America!

Juxtaposition! I've traveled the world for atleast a quarter of my life in
the Military, in Business and in Leisure. Vietnam and Nato taught me that
soldiers are pretty much all the same guy's. Business taught me that all
business people are the same (except for Japanese Woman Engineers) and in
Leisure everybody everywhere is pretty much the same, WE all have the same
personal concerns and family issues. Food was always the factor that brought
us together and a good starting common point. All the People of the World
except Americans have more time to enjoy themselves and their meals for the
most part.(there is slave labor but overall) We being "productive" must live
with McDonalds. Piss poor trade off if you ask me. Only 17% of Americans
travel outside the continent so for the most part you could tell people
Russians all have birthmarks on their foreheads and they wouldn't know the
difference, or even that Chinese pussy is horiz, and not vertical. Too
stupid to know better!

As for the NG up until the past few years it's kinda been more worth-less
then worth-while.. I never EVER posted an OT:, until Tom caught shit back
around Nov.. Then I decided to go over to the darkside... and stay there. If
I ever have any questions I know where to go to get the right ones anyway.

Sex, Drugs and Rock & Roll

Jammer!




"Woodchuck34" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Easy friend. See you make some excellent points and they would have
> even more validity if you just toned it down a little bit. I agree
> with you....Tom Watson is a really nice guy and I valued his post OT or
> OnT. I was away for a little bit and don't really know why he left,
> DAWGS but didn't really find "That Thread" that made him leave. The
> difference is that Tom didn't focus all of his posts on OT items.
> Don't water down your core agruments by butting heads with people. It
> makes you sound like one of those Republicans that went after Clinton
> for having "relations" in the White House. (***footnote, that ordeal
> was embarrassing for our entire country. The PODUS should be able to
> have affairs with much better looking women***end footnote). Makes you
> sound like your're so angry that you don't know what your angry about.
>
> But seriously, you make good points, and I don't think any of us
> wreckers mind reading these OT posts. Its good conversation among
> friends, but when I pull up the wreck on google, you fill up a whole
> page.
>
> Sorry I gave you the "New Radio" treament. I posted that a few weeks
> back when a Chinese marketing firm posted spam here. Thought it would
> confuse the hell out of them. Besides, I think its funny.
>
> Peace,
>
> Chuck
>

Th a.. Total number killed in attacks (official figure as of 9/5/02): 2,819

b.. Number of firefighters and paramedics killed: 343

c.. Number of NYPD officers: 23

d.. Number of Port Authority police officers: 37

e.. Number of WTC companies that lost people: 60

f.. Number of employees who died in Tower One: 1,402

g.. Number of employees who died in Tower Two: 614

h.. Number of employees lost at Cantor Fitzgerald: 658

i.. Number of U.S. troops killed in Operation Enduring Freedom: 22

j.. Number of nations whose citizens were killed in attacks: 115

k.. Ratio of men to women who died: 3:1

l.. Age of the greatest number who died: between 35 and 39

m.. Bodies found "intact": 289

n.. Body parts found: 19,858

o.. Number of families who got no remains: 1,717

p.. Estimated units of blood donated to the New York Blood Center: 36,000

q.. Total units of donated blood actually used: 258

r.. Number of people who lost a spouse or partner in the attacks: 1,609

s.. Estimated number of children who lost a parent: 3,051

t.. Percentage of Americans who knew someone hurt or killed in the
attacks: 20

u.. FDNY retirements, January-July 2001: 274

v.. FDNY retirements, January-July 2002: 661

w.. Number of firefighters on leave for respiratory problems by January
2002: 300

x.. Number of funerals attended by Rudy Giuliani in 2001: 200

y.. Number of FDNY vehicles destroyed: 98

z.. Tons of debris removed from site: 1,506,124

aa.. Days fires continued to burn after the attack: 99

ab.. Jobs lost in New York owing to the attacks: 146,100

ac.. Days the New York Stock Exchange was closed: 6

ad.. Point drop in the Dow Jones industrial average when the NYSE
reopened: 684.81

ae.. Days after 9/11 that the U.S. began bombing Afghanistan: 26

af.. Total number of hate crimes reported to the Council on
American-Islamic Relations nationwide since 9/11: 1,714

ag.. Economic loss to New York in month following the attacks: $105
billion

ah.. Estimated cost of cleanup: $600 million

ai.. Total FEMA money spent on the emergency: $970 million

aj.. Estimated amount donated to 9/11 charities: $1.4 billion

ak.. Estimated amount of insurance paid worldwide related to 9/11: $40.2
billion

al.. Estimated amount of money needed to overhaul lower-Manhattan subways:
$7.5 billion

am.. Amount of money recently granted by U.S. government to overhaul
lower-Manhattan subways: $4.55 billion

an.. Estimated amount of money raised for funds dedicated to NYPD and FDNY
families: $500 million

ao.. Percentage of total charity money raised going to FDNY and NYPD
families: 25

ap.. Average benefit already received by each FDNY and NYPD widow: $1
million

aq.. Percentage increase in law-school applications from 2001 to 2002:
17.9

ar.. Percentage increase in Peace Corps applications from 2001 to 2002: 40

as.. Percentage increase in CIA applications from 2001 to 2002: 50

at.. Number of songs Clear Channel Radio considered "inappropriate" to
play after 9/11: 150

au.. Number of mentions of 9/11 at the Oscars: 26

av.. Apartments in lower Manhattan eligible for asbestos cleanup: 30,000

aw.. Number of apartments whose residents have requested cleanup and
testing: 4,110

ax.. Number of Americans who changed their 2001 holiday-travel plans from
plane to train or car: 1.4 million

ay.. Estimated number of New Yorkers suffering from post-traumatic-stress
disorder as a result of 9/11: 422,000


Data site.............. The rest is mine!

you can get the fiscal numbers from bloombergs



"Joe Barta" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> 2006.2257.261 wrote:
>
> <snip quite a bit of interesting information and worthy items of
> discussion>
>
> I have a question... how much of that was written by you and how much
> was written by others?
>
> Joe Barta

Gee didn't Bush in his State of the Union deflect all desicions regarding
troops to the Generals? They call the shots huh, and "not letting" politics
get into it?



Well Perle is simply a pencil pusher and an expert in bureaucratic intrigue.
He is also a member of PNAC***, and a pro-supporter of Israel isn't he?It's
apparent as a servant of the People of America, he has easily placed his
desires above and beyond those of the American Public he serves. His advice
is his own agenda.

***The Project for the New American Century, or PNAC, is a Washington, DC
based think tank. The group was established in spring 1997 as a non-profit
organization with the goal of promoting "American global leadership". The
chairman is William Kristol, editor of the Weekly Standard and FOX News
regular. The group is an initiative of the New Citizenship Project, a
non-profit 501c3 organization that is funded by the Sarah Scaife Foundation,
the John M. Olin Foundation and the Bradley Foundation. [1]
The PNAC is a controversial organization. Many have raised concerns that the
project has been proposing military and economic, space, cyberspace, and
global domination by the United States, so as to establish American
dominance in world affairs (Pax Americana) for the future-hence the term
"the New American Century", based on the idea that the 20th century was the
American Century. Some analysts argue that the American-led 2003 invasion of
Iraq, commenced in March of that year under the code name Operation Iraqi
Freedom, is the first major step toward implementing these objectives.



See there are only two (2) winners in the War in Iraq! Israel and Saudi
Arabia. SA eliminates an oil source and competition, Israel gets peace of
mind and Business. We get shit? Gee I do remember America saving Kuwait and
you don't here squat from them, even with Katrina destroying a "whole large"
American city as we drop lives in the in Iraq the Middle East offers lip
service but not much help.

LUNCH WITH THE CHAIRMAN
Why was Richard Perle meeting with Adnan Khashoggi?
by SEYMOUR M. HERSH
Issue of 2003-03-17
Posted 2003-03-10


At the peak of his deal-making activities, in the nineteen-seventies, the
Saudi-born businessman Adnan Khashoggi brokered billions of dollars in arms
and aircraft sales for the Saudi royal family, earning hundreds of millions
in commissions and fees. Though never convicted of wrongdoing, he was
repeatedly involved in disputes with federal prosecutors and with the
Securities and Exchange Commission, and in recent years he has been in
litigation in Thailand and Los Angeles, among other places, concerning
allegations of stock manipulation and fraud. During the Reagan
Administration, Khashoggi was one of the middlemen between Oliver North, in
the White House, and the mullahs in Iran in what became known as the
Iran-Contra scandal. Khashoggi subsequently claimed that he lost ten million
dollars that he had put up to obtain embargoed weapons for Iran which were
to be bartered (with Presidential approval) for American hostages. The
scandals of those times seemed to feed off each other: a congressional
investigation revealed that Khashoggi had borrowed much of the money for the
weapons from the Bank of Credit and Commerce International (B.C.C.I.), whose
collapse, in 1991, defrauded thousands of depositors and led to years of
inquiry and litigation.
Khashoggi is still brokering. In January of this year, he arranged a private
lunch, in France, to bring together Harb Saleh al-Zuhair, a Saudi
industrialist whose family fortune includes extensive holdings in
construction, electronics, and engineering companies throughout the Middle
East, and Richard N. Perle, the chairman of the Defense Policy Board, who is
one of the most outspoken and influential American advocates of war with
Iraq.
The Defense Policy Board is a Defense Department advisory group composed
primarily of highly respected former government officials, retired military
officers, and academics. Its members, who serve without pay, include former
national-security advisers, Secretaries of Defense, and heads of the C.I.A.
The board meets several times a year at the Pentagon to review and assess
the country's strategic defense policies.
Perle is also a managing partner in a venture-capital company called Trireme
Partners L.P., which was registered in November, 2001, in Delaware. Trireme's
main business, according to a two-page letter that one of its
representatives sent to Khashoggi last November, is to invest in companies
dealing in technology, goods, and services that are of value to homeland
security and defense. The letter argued that the fear of terrorism would
increase the demand for such products in Europe and in countries like Saudi
Arabia and Singapore.
The letter mentioned the firm's government connections prominently: "Three
of Trireme's Management Group members currently advise the U.S. Secretary of
Defense by serving on the U.S. Defense Policy Board, and one of Trireme's
principals, Richard Perle, is chairman of that Board." The two other
policy-board members associated with Trireme are Henry Kissinger, the former
Secretary of State (who is, in fact, only a member of Trireme's advisory
group and is not involved in its management), and Gerald Hillman, an
investor and a close business associate of Perle's who handles matters in
Trireme's New York office. The letter said that forty-five million dollars
had already been raised, including twenty million dollars from Boeing; the
purpose, clearly, was to attract more investors, such as Khashoggi and
Zuhair.


Perle served as a foreign-policy adviser in George W. Bush's Presidential
campaign-he had been an Assistant Secretary of Defense under Ronald
Reagan-but he chose not to take a senior position in the Administration. In
mid-2001, however, he accepted an offer from Secretary of Defense Donald
Rumsfeld to chair the Defense Policy Board, a then obscure group that had
been created by the Defense Department in 1985. Its members (there are
around thirty of them) may be outside the government, but they have access
to classified information and to senior policymakers, and give advice not
only on strategic policy but also on such matters as weapons procurement.
Most of the board's proceedings are confidential.
As chairman of the board, Perle is considered to be a special government
employee and therefore subject to a federal Code of Conduct. Those rules bar
a special employee from participating in an official capacity in any matter
in which he has a financial interest. "One of the general rules is that you
don't take advantage of your federal position to help yourself financially
in any way," a former government attorney who helped formulate the Code of
Conduct told me. The point, the attorney added, is to "protect government
processes from actual or apparent conflicts."
Advisory groups like the Defense Policy Board enable knowledgeable people
outside government to bring their skills and expertise to bear, in
confidence, on key policy issues. Because such experts are often tied to the
defense industry, however, there are inevitable conflicts. One board member
told me that most members are active in finance and business, and on at
least one occasion a member has left a meeting when a military or an
intelligence product in which he has an active interest has come under
discussion.
Four members of the Defense Policy Board told me that the board, which met
most recently on February 27th and 28th, had not been informed of Perle's
involvement in Trireme. One board member, upon being told of Trireme and
Perle's meeting with Khashoggi, exclaimed, "Oh, get out of here. He's the
chairman! If you had a story about me setting up a company for homeland
security, and I've put people on the board with whom I'm doing that
business, I'd be had"-a reference to Gerald Hillman, who had almost no
senior policy or military experience in government before being offered a
post on the policy board. "Seems to me this is at the edge of or off the
ethical charts. I think it would stink to high heaven."
Hillman, a former McKinsey consultant, stunned at least one board member at
the February meeting when he raised questions about the validity of Iraq's
existing oil contracts. "Hillman said the old contracts are bad news; he
said we should kick out the Russians and the French," the board member told
me. "This was a serious conversation. We'd become the brokers. Then we'd be
selling futures in the Iraqi oil company. I said to myself, 'Oh, man. Don't
go down that road.' " Hillman denies making such statements at the meeting.
Larry Noble, the executive director of the Washington-based Center for
Responsive Politics, a nonprofit research organization, said of Perle's
Trireme involvement, "It's not illegal, but it presents an appearance of a
conflict. It's enough to raise questions about the advice he's giving to the
Pentagon and why people in business are dealing with him." Noble added, "The
question is whether he's trading off his advisory-committee relationship. If
it's a selling point for the firm he's involved with, that means he's a
closer-the guy you bring in who doesn't have to talk about money, but he's
the reason you're doing the deal."
Perle's association with Trireme was not his first exposure to the link
between high finance and high-level politics. He was born in New York City,
graduated from the University of Southern California in 1964, and spent a
decade in Senate-staff jobs before leaving government in 1980, to work for a
military-consulting firm. The next year, he was back in government, as
Assistant Secretary of Defense. In 1983, he was the subject of a New York
Times investigation into an allegation that he recommended that the Army buy
weapons from an Israeli company from whose owners he had, two years earlier,
accepted a fifty-thousand-dollar fee. Perle later acknowledged that he had
accepted the fee, but vigorously denied any wrongdoing. He had not recused
himself in the matter, he explained, because the fee was for work he had
done before he took the Defense Department job. He added, "The ultimate
issue, of course, was a question of procurement, and I am not a procurement
officer." He was never officially accused of any ethical violations in the
matter. Perle served in the Pentagon until 1987 and then became deeply
involved in the lobbying and business worlds. Among other corporate
commitments, he now serves as a director of a company doing business with
the federal government: the Autonomy Corporation, a British firm that
recently won a major federal contract in homeland security. When I asked him
about that contract, Perle told me that there was no possible conflict,
because the contract was obtained through competitive bidding, and "I never
talked to anybody about it."


Under Perle's leadership, the policy board has become increasingly
influential. He has used it as a bully pulpit, from which to advocate the
overthrow of Saddam Hussein and the use of preëmptive military action to
combat terrorism. Perle had many allies for this approach, such as Paul
Wolfowitz, the Deputy Secretary of Defense, but there was intense resistance
throughout the bureaucracy-most notably at the State Department. Preëmption
has since emerged as the overriding idea behind the Administration's foreign
policy. One former high-level intelligence official spoke with awe of Perle's
ability to "radically change government policy" even though he is a private
citizen. "It's an impressive achievement that an outsider can have so much
influence, and has even been given an institutional base for his influence."
Perle's authority in the Bush Administration is buttressed by close
association, politically and personally, with many important Administration
figures, including Wolfowitz and Douglas Feith, the Under-Secretary of
Defense for Policy, who is the Pentagon's third-ranking civilian official.
In 1989, Feith created International Advisors Incorporated, a lobbying firm
whose main client was the government of Turkey. The firm retained Perle as
an adviser between 1989 and 1994. Feith got his current position, according
to a former high-level Defense Department official, only after Perle
personally intervened with Rumsfeld, who was skeptical about him. Feith was
directly involved in the strategic planning and conduct of the military
operations against the Taliban in Afghanistan; he now runs various aspects
of the planning of the Iraqi war and its aftermath. He and Perle share the
same views on many foreign-policy issues. Both have been calling for Saddam
Hussein's removal for years, long before September 11th. They also worked
together, in 1996, to prepare a list of policy initiatives for Benjamin
Netanyahu, shortly after his election as the Israeli Prime Minister. The
suggestions included working toward regime change in Iraq. Feith and Perle
were energetic supporters of Ahmad Chalabi, the controversial leader of the
anti-Saddam Iraqi National Congress, and have struggled with officials at
the State Department and the C.I.A. about the future of Iraq.
Perle has also been an outspoken critic of the Saudi government, and
Americans who are in its pay. He has often publicly rebuked former American
government officials who are connected to research centers and foundations
that are funded by the Saudis, and told the National Review last summer, "I
think it's a disgrace. They're the people who appear on television, they
write op-ed pieces. The Saudis are a major source of the problem we face
with terrorism. That would be far more obvious to people if it weren't for
this community of former diplomats effectively working for this foreign
government." In August, the Saudi government was dismayed when the
Washington Post revealed that the Defense Policy Board had received a
briefing on July 10th from a Rand Corporation analyst named Laurent
Murawiec, who depicted Saudi Arabia as an enemy of the United States, and
recommended that the Bush Administration give the Saudi government an
ultimatum to stop backing terrorism or face seizure of its financial assets
in the United States and its oil fields. Murawiec, it was later found, is a
former editor of the Executive Intelligence Review, a magazine controlled by
Lyndon H. LaRouche, Jr., the perennial Presidential candidate, conspiracy
theorist, and felon. According to Time, it was Perle himself who had invited
Murawiec to make his presentation.


Perle's hostility to the politics of the Saudi government did not stop him
from meeting with potential Saudi investors for Trireme. Khashoggi and
Zuhair told me that they understood that one of Trireme's objectives was to
seek the help of influential Saudis to win homeland-security contracts with
the Saudi royal family for the businesses it financed. The profits for such
contracts could be substantial. Saudi Arabia has spent nearly a billion
dollars to survey and demarcate its eight-hundred-and-fifty-mile border with
Yemen, and the second stage of that process will require billions more.
Trireme apparently turned to Adnan Khashoggi for help.
Last month, I spoke with Khashoggi, who is sixty-seven and is recovering
from open-heart surgery, at his penthouse apartment, overlooking the
Mediterranean in Cannes. "I was the intermediary," he said. According to
Khashoggi, he was first approached by a Trireme official named Christopher
Harriman. Khashoggi said that Harriman, an American businessman whom he knew
from his jet-set days, when both men were fixtures on the European social
scene, sent him the Trireme pitch letter. (Harriman has not answered my
calls.) Khashoggi explained that before Christmas he and Harb Zuhair, the
Saudi industrialist, had met with Harriman and Gerald Hillman in Paris and
had discussed the possibility of a large investment in Trireme.
Zuhair was interested in more than the financial side; he also wanted to
share his views on war and peace with someone who had influence with the
Bush Administration. Though a Saudi, he had been born in Iraq, and he hoped
that a negotiated, "step by step" solution could be found to avoid war.
Zuhair recalls telling Harriman and Hillman, "If we have peace, it would be
easy to raise a hundred million. We will bring development to the region."
Zuhair's hope, Khashoggi told me, was to combine opportunities for peace
with opportunities for investment. According to Khashoggi, Hillman and
Harriman said that such a meeting could be arranged. Perle emerged, by
virtue of his position on the policy board, as a natural catch; he was "the
hook," Khashoggi said, for obtaining the investment from Zuhair. Khashoggi
said that he agreed to try to assemble potential investors for a private
lunch with Perle.


The lunch took place on January 3rd at a seaside restaurant in Marseilles.
(Perle has a vacation home in the South of France.) Those who attended the
lunch differ about its purpose. According to both Khashoggi and Zuhair,
there were two items on the agenda. The first was to give Zuhair a chance to
propose a peaceful alternative to war with Iraq; Khashoggi said that he and
Perle knew that such an alternative was far-fetched, but Zuhair had recently
returned from a visit to Baghdad, and was eager to talk about it. The
second, more important item, according to Khashoggi and Zuhair, was to pave
the way for Zuhair to put together a group of ten Saudi businessmen who
would invest ten million dollars each in Trireme.
"It was normal for us to see Perle," Khashoggi told me. "We in the Middle
East are accustomed to politicians who use their offices for whatever
business they want. I organized the lunch for the purpose of Harb Zuhair to
put his language to Perle. Perle politely listened, and the lunch was over."
Zuhair, in a telephone conversation with me, recalled that Perle had made it
clear at the lunch that "he was above the money. He said he was more
involved in politics, and the business is through the company"-Trireme.
Perle, throughout the lunch, "stuck to his idea that 'we have to get rid of
Saddam,' " Zuhair said. As of early March, to the knowledge of Zuhair, no
Saudi money had yet been invested in Trireme.
In my first telephone conversation with Gerald Hillman, in mid-February,
before I knew of the involvement of Khashoggi and Zuhair, he assured me that
Trireme had "nothing to do" with the Saudis. "I don't know what you can do
with them," he said. "What we saw on September 11th was a grotesque
manifestation of their ideology. Americans believe that the Saudis are
supporting terrorism. We have no investment from them, or with them." (Last
week, he acknowledged that he had met with Khashoggi and Zuhair, but said
that the meeting had been arranged by Harriman and that he hadn't known that
Zuhair would be there.) Perle, he insisted in February, "is not a financial
creature. He doesn't have any desire for financial gain."
Perle, in a series of telephone interviews, acknowledged that he had met
with two Saudis at the lunch in Marseilles, but he did not divulge their
identities. (At that time, I still didn't know who they were.) "There were
two Saudis there," he said. "But there was no discussion of Trireme. It was
never mentioned and never discussed." He firmly stated, "The lunch was not
about money. It just would never have occurred to me to discuss investments,
given the circumstances." Perle added that one of the Saudis had information
that Saddam was ready to surrender. "His message was a plea to negotiate
with Saddam."
When I asked Perle whether the Saudi businessmen at the lunch were being
considered as possible investors in Trireme, he replied, "I don't want
Saudis as such, but the fund is open to any investor, and our European
partners said that, through investment banks, they had had Saudis as
investors." Both Perle and Hillman stated categorically that there were
currently no Saudi investments.
Khashoggi professes to be amused by the activities of Perle and Hillman as
members of the policy board. As Khashoggi saw it, Trireme's business
potential depended on a war in Iraq taking place. "If there is no war," he
told me, "why is there a need for security? If there is a war, of course,
billions of dollars will have to be spent." He commented, "You Americans
blind yourself with your high integrity and your democratic morality against
peddling influence, but they were peddling influence."


When Perle's lunch with Khashoggi and Zuhair, and his connection to Trireme,
became known to a few ranking members of the Saudi royal family, they
reacted with anger and astonishment. The meeting in Marseilles left Perle,
one of the kingdom's most vehement critics, exposed to a ferocious
counterattack.
Prince Bandar bin Sultan, who has served as the Saudi Ambassador to the
United States for twenty years, told me that he had got wind of Perle's
involvement with Trireme and the lunch in Marseilles. Bandar, who is in his
early fifties, is a prominent member of the royal family (his father is the
defense minister). He said that he was told that the contacts between Perle
and Trireme and the Saudis were purely business, on all sides. After the
1991 Gulf War, Bandar told me, Perle had been involved in an unsuccessful
attempt to sell security systems to the Saudi government, "and this company
does security systems." (Perle confirmed that he had been on the board of a
company that attempted to make such a sale but said he was not directly
involved in the project.)
"There is a split personality to Perle," Bandar said. "Here he is, on the
one hand, trying to make a hundred-million-dollar deal, and, on the other
hand, there were elements of the appearance of blackmail-'If we get in
business, he'll back off on Saudi Arabia'-as I have been informed by
participants in the meeting."
As for Perle's meeting with Khashoggi and Zuhair, and the assertion that its
purpose was to discuss politics, Bandar said, "There has to be deniability,
and a cover story-a possible peace initiative in Iraq-is needed. I believe
the Iraqi events are irrelevant. A business meeting took place."


Zuhair, however, was apparently convinced that, thanks to his discussions
with Trireme, he would have a chance to enter into a serious discussion with
Perle about peace. A few days after the meeting in Paris, Hillman had sent
Khashoggi a twelve-point memorandum, dated December 26, 2002, setting the
conditions that Iraq would have to meet. "It is my belief," the memorandum
stated, "that if the United States obtained the following results it would
not go to war against Iraq." Saddam would have to admit that "Iraq has
developed, and possesses, weapons of mass destruction." He then would be
allowed to resign and leave Iraq immediately, with his sons and some of his
ministers.
Hillman sent Khashoggi a second memorandum a week later, the day before the
lunch with Perle in Marseilles. "Following our recent discussions," it said,
"we have been thinking about an immediate test to ascertain that Iraq is
sincere in its desire to surrender." Five more steps were outlined, and an
ambitious final request was made: that Khashoggi and Zuhair arrange a
meeting with Prince Nawaf Abdul Aziz, the Saudi intelligence chief, "so that
we can assist in Washington."
Both Khashoggi and Zuhair were skeptical of the memorandums. Zuhair found
them "absurd," and Khashoggi told me that he thought they were amusing, and
almost silly. "This was their thinking?" he recalled asking himself. "There
was nothing to react to. While Harb was lobbying for Iraq, they were
lobbying for Perle."
In my initial conversation with Hillman, he said, "Richard had nothing to do
with the writing of those letters. I informed him of it afterward, and he
never said one word, even after I sent them to him. I thought my ideas were
pretty clear, but I didn't think Saddam would resign and I didn't think he'd
go into exile. I'm positive Richard does not believe that any of those
things would happen." Hillman said that he had drafted the memorandums with
the help of his daughter, a college student. Perle, for his part, told me,
"I didn't write them and didn't supply any content to them. I didn't know
about them until after they were drafted."
The views set forth in the memorandums were, indeed, very different from
those held by Perle, who has said publicly that Saddam will leave office
only if he is forced out, and from those of his fellow hard-liners in the
Bush Administration. Given Perle's importance in American decision-making,
and the risks of relying on a deal-maker with Adnan Khashoggi's history,
questions remain about Hillman's drafting of such an amateurish peace
proposal for Zuhair. Prince Bandar's assertion-that the talk of peace was
merely a pretext for some hard selling-is difficult to dismiss.
Hillman's proposals, meanwhile, took on an unlikely life of their own. A
month after the lunch, the proposals made their way to Al Hayat, a
Saudi-owned newspaper published in London. If Perle had ever intended to
dissociate himself from them, he did not succeed. The newspaper, in a
dispatch headlined "washington offers to avert war in return for an
international agreement to exile saddam," characterized Hillman's
memorandums as "American" documents and said that the new proposals bore
Perle's imprimatur. The paper said that Perle and others had attended a
series of "secret meetings" in an effort to avoid the pending war with Iraq,
and "a scenario was discussed whereby Saddam Hussein would personally admit
that his country was attempting to acquire weapons of mass destruction and
he would agree to stop trying to acquire these weapons while he awaits
exile."
A few days later, the Beirut daily Al Safir published Arabic translations of
the memorandums themselves, attributing them to Richard Perle. The proposals
were said to have been submitted by Perle, and to "outline Washington's
future visions of Iraq." Perle's lunch with two Saudi businessmen was now
elevated by Al Safir to a series of "recent American-Saudi negotiations" in
which "the American side was represented by Richard Perle." The newspaper
added, "Publishing these documents is important because they shed light on
the story of how war could have been avoided." The documents, of course, did
nothing of the kind.
When Perle was asked whether his dealings with Trireme might present the
appearance of a conflict of interest, he said that anyone who saw such a
conflict would be thinking "maliciously." But Perle, in crisscrossing
between the public and the private sectors, has put himself in a difficult
position-one not uncommon to public men. He is credited with being the
intellectual force behind a war that not everyone wants and that many
suspect, however unfairly, of being driven by American business interests.
There is no question that Perle believes that removing Saddam from power is
the right thing to do. At the same time, he has set up a company that may
gain from a war. In doing so, he has given ammunition not only to the Saudis
but to his other ideological opponents as well.



"Joe Barta" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> 2006.2257.261 wrote:
>
>> The Generals and the US Military were not the
>> ones, who recommended getting Saddam or spreading Freedom &
>> Democracy.It was 100% POLITICAL by Perle, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld &
>> Cheney who wanted Iraq.
>
> Well first, I hope you believe in the idea that the military is and
> should be subserviant to the civilian authority. So while generals
> might make their recommendations, it's the politians that call the
> shots.
>
> Second, it's true that Perle, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld and Cheney were very
> instrumental in getting our country to take military action in Iraq.
> It would seem that you very much disagree with them. What was their
> argument and where do you disagree?
>
> Third, I'm wondering which of the following three charcterizations is
> closest to what you would attribute to Perle et all...
>
> 1) Simple minded fools bungling though complex issues. They meant no
> harm but they screwed everything up.
>
> 2) Evil, self-serving bastards that seek nothing more than to line
> their own pockets in any way they can. They repeatedly lie to cover up
> their nefarious intentions.
>
> 3) They promoted/are promoting a cause that they feel is good and
> just. They are not evil or profiteers, but are ideologes that have a
> plan for the world and are prepared to shove it down our collective
> throats and will commit any crime to see it their vision fulfilled.
>
> If those aren't suitable I'd be happy to hear one of your own.
>
> Joe Barta

I had a small house of brokerage on Wall Street... many days no
business come to my hut... my hut... but Jimmy has fear? A thousand
times no. I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey



strong bowels were girded with strength like the loins of a dragon
ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo... dung. ...Glorious
sunset of my heart was fading. Soon the super karate monkey death car
would park in my space. But Jimmy has fancy plans... and pants to
match. The monkey clown horrible karate round and yummy like cute small



baby chick would beat the donkey.

I actually did, but I'm not at all against people expressing opposing
view points. I appreciate your passion for this subject and your
desire to keep the lives we are losing in the forefront. As a country
we lack the ability to listen.

I just don't appreciate reading about it here. This is where I come to
read about woodworking, not war, politics, or even recipes. I get a
heavy dose of those items every where else I turn. I come here to
relax and discuss woodworking.

Please stop this here. Please continue your message somewhere else.

Chuck

The Bush Budget is $2.77 Trillion Dollars.
The Republic of China's Budget is $30 Billion
Russia's Budget is $70 Billion.
India's Budget is $17 Billion
Japan's Budget is $394 Billion


Might want to recheck a few of these

Easy friend. See you make some excellent points and they would have
even more validity if you just toned it down a little bit. I agree
with you....Tom Watson is a really nice guy and I valued his post OT or
OnT. I was away for a little bit and don't really know why he left,
DAWGS but didn't really find "That Thread" that made him leave. The
difference is that Tom didn't focus all of his posts on OT items.
Don't water down your core agruments by butting heads with people. It
makes you sound like one of those Republicans that went after Clinton
for having "relations" in the White House. (***footnote, that ordeal
was embarrassing for our entire country. The PODUS should be able to
have affairs with much better looking women***end footnote). Makes you
sound like your're so angry that you don't know what your angry about.

But seriously, you make good points, and I don't think any of us
wreckers mind reading these OT posts. Its good conversation among
friends, but when I pull up the wreck on google, you fill up a whole
page.

Sorry I gave you the "New Radio" treament. I posted that a few weeks
back when a Chinese marketing firm posted spam here. Thought it would
confuse the hell out of them. Besides, I think its funny.

Peace,

Chuck

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/fields/2056.html

That's how we pronounce it up here. Thanks for catching that.

fo

I am actually interested to know why Tom left. I was upset to read his
goodbye posts. Loved his writing and he helped me on more than a few
projects with his posts.

Chuck

2006.2257.261 wrote:
> You would Trust the CIA?
They even missed Hamas winning in
> Palestine.............Bloomberg is financial I did know that some error is
> on my side. But Thanks I should stand corrected, but my point is still
> supported. I think the errors was in my Conversion from Rubles Yen etc. but
> it can also be dependent on when the numbers are crunched to a degree. I
> should have checked here myself, but after 9/11 they still can't get a base
> hit!
>
> Thanks again!
>
>
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/fields/2056.html
> >

Trust maybe maybe not. Don't recall them publishing their anticipated
election results. I think I would also differentiate between anyones
ability to determine the psychology of the palistinians and collect
financial data of froiegn countries
Well in the case of India seems to be nealy 10:1 error. But thats Ok
cause most of our national press can't do a first order sanity check on
whether a 'fact' seems reasonable let alone verify with multiple
sources.

Tue, Feb 7, 2006, 3:15pm (EST+5) [email protected] (2006.2257.261) now
doth burble:
<snippity of it all>

Hey Buttercup, where's the references to all that? Lot of
statements, but nothing about the sources. Lacks credibility. No
credibility, no interest. Or, if that's just your opinion, say that.
Eat recycled food, have a nice next life.



JOAT
Don't believe everything you think.

RonB wrote:

[rant, snipped]

You messed up your reply. Unless you were calling "none" Numbers guy.

er
--
email not valid

"2006.2257.261"
> Eat shit, Run Rabid and Bark at the Moon.


Hey, the new DNC slogan. Gotta admit, they practice what they preach.

wow I guess you don't have a lot to be proud of if you get off on this
faggot assed pussy shit!


"RonB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:NXRGf.2348$Nq1.641@dukeread11...
>> Do you think you just did something useful with your time??
>
> Yes Dammit. Felt pretty good.
>
> Like I said, If someone hadn't already fed him I would have stayed quiet.
>

Bahhhhhh! Wooooooo! Good one loser boy!


"2006.2257.261" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:6eVGf.30714$%i3.27725@trnddc02...
>I ain't your wife fagboy
>
>
>
> "stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message
> news:SwTGf.20530$%[email protected]...
>> Bite me
>>
>
>

I ain't your wife fagboy



"stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message
news:SwTGf.20530$%[email protected]...
> Bite me
>

Nice post, good to see your Honest!



"none" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]'m just a loser, with
nothing else to do in my weakass life, I live in fear and hide in shame and
I hate the truth. Therefore I am nothing..none!

BLOW Me!
"stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> SNIP
>> Fellow - I know you will respond to this with your usual string of
>> mindless profanity.
>
> Then why bother?
>
>> Get a job. Do something useful with your time. Get screwed.
>
> Do you think you just did something useful with your time??
>
>> So There
>> RonB
>>
>
>

I have been waiting for someone to break into one of these because I didn't
want to be the first to feed this poor, miserable troll.

Numbers guy, you must lead a very shallow, miserable life. You remind me of
one of Kansas' worst citizens the "reverend" Fred Phelps. I didn't
capitalize the word Reverend because he doesn't deserve it. He has spent
the past few years occupying his thoughts with hate and disgust and has
totally lost lock on reality. This is a guy who demonstrates at soldier's
funerals because he has rationalized that God hates soldiers. The absurdity
of your responses to any challenge puts you in a similar category. You are
using tragedy to feed your own sick, stupid ego. You are a shame to the
human existence.

Fellow - I know you will respond to this with your usual string of mindless
profanity. I won't read it. The very sad thing is that your intent could
be good. Your responses are disgusting and pathetic. As sick as I am with
your responses, I kind of feel sorry for you. You wallow in a very sad,
sorrowful, wasteful existence.

Get a job. Do something useful with your time. Get screwed.

So There
RonB

hug a root!



"woodarama" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> fo
>

Isn't it nice to sit back and Relax!



with all of your arms and legs and not getting your buddies blood or anybody
elses on you and in your mind.



I love these Chicken Hawks, Just Relax and dicuss wood working moron, I
don't force you to read my posts!


so cut the Bullshit! and cry in your soup and not the NG, I'm tryin' to
relax here, you stupid shit!


"Joe Barta" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Woodchuck34 wrote:
>
>> I just don't appreciate reading about it here. This is where I
>> come to read about woodworking, not war, politics, or even
>> recipes. I get a heavy dose of those items every where else I
>> turn. I come here to relax and discuss woodworking.
>
> Oh my, what you say is music to our friend's ears. Getting in your
> face and annoying the piss out of you while you're trying to relax is
> EXACTLY what he wants to do.
>
> Even he knows he's not accomplishing much, but until he figures out
> something more useful or effective to do, we're stuck with him.
>
>> Please stop this here. Please continue your message somewhere
>> else.
>
> You have much to learn. I fear you have no idea how futile the above
> request is.
>
> Fret not though... usenet is a wonderful place with an amazing variety
> of personalities and discussion... some of it even on-topic by people
> that know what they're talking about! Just do yourself a big favor and
> grow a little thick skin and learn to flex your ignore muscles if you
> must.
>
> Joe Barta
>
>

are you 6 or retarded?.................



"none" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I now believe I know who you are.... You must be letting the "bull" rust a
>bit if you're spending all your free time here though.
>
>
> "2006.2257.261" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:DJ3Gf.6456$0i1.1037@trnddc04...
>> Nice post, good to see your Honest!
>>
>
>

Yeah...got a little trigger happy there but what I meant to say in that one
was...... Now listen closely...

You... Eat shit, Run Rabid and Bark at the Moon

Get a life

I carry them on to people who've earned my respect............... BLOW Me!
"RonB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:PqxGf.2293$Nq1.826@dukeread11...
>I almost regret my earlier post. I am very surprised to see you do carry
>on very coherent conversation. I am assuming you are the same guy that
>responds to most critical posts with a string of vulgarity.
>

> Do you think you just did something useful with your time??

Yes Dammit. Felt pretty good.

Like I said, If someone hadn't already fed him I would have stayed quiet.

I now believe I know who you are.... You must be letting the "bull" rust a
bit if you're spending all your free time here though.


"2006.2257.261" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:DJ3Gf.6456$0i1.1037@trnddc04...
> Nice post, good to see your Honest!
>

I almost regret my earlier post. I am very surprised to see you do carry on
very coherent conversation. I am assuming you are the same guy that
responds to most critical posts with a string of vulgarity.

you stutter huh Eat shit, Run Rabid and Bark at the Moon? wow who thought of
that for you?

"none" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Yeah...got a little trigger happy there but what I meant to say in that
> one was...... Now listen closely...
>
> You... Eat shit, Run Rabid and Bark at the Moon
>
> Get a life
>

Bite me

Don't discount PNAC.... They are all self-serving, simply examine their
backgrounds and history. Serial killers love to kill, Thieves love to steal,
Politicians and people within Governments love the power and control, money
is either primary or secondary. You can't tell me that Power and/or money
does not corrupt!

Israel is like every other country, it's not going to jump on it's sword to
save America!

If you watched him at King's Funeral he was about as far away from that as
he is everything else. When a President makes too many mistakes and has no
concern for the Constitution I think he's no better then his own mistakes.
Cheney has come out to many times to count and outright lied as has
Rumsfeld, Perle and Wolfowitz, each and everyone has purposefully misled the
public. From WMD's, Iraq Oil to pay for War, Greeted with Rose Petals in the
Streets. I could fill a book with all the lies, BUT I'll give credit where
credit is due, You show me once where anything they have stated in the past
6 years was truthful? Factual? Correct? or what went right?

Look at the WHO or the World Bank, the objectives aren't so much to make the
world a better place, but to institute policy, control and legislation.W is
just one of the Good Ol' boys. I think what you have here are people who do
the bidding for the Corporate (Defense, Financial etc.) world and do so by
using their status within the Government. If they ignored the PAC's they'd
never raise a dime, and just like us they too have to work for their living
or they'd be out in the street.



"Joe Barta" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> 2006.2257.261 wrote:
>
>> Well Perle is simply a pencil pusher and an expert in bureaucratic
>> intrigue. He is also a member of PNAC***, and a pro-supporter of
>> Israel isn't he?It's apparent as a servant of the People of
>> America, he has easily placed his desires above and beyond those
>> of the American Public he serves. His advice is his own agenda.
>
> So I gather that in your opinion, Perle is little more than a greedy
> bastard looking to line his pockets, and he will use his influence on
> the world stage to manipulate individuals and governments in any way
> possible to increase his own financial holdings? That he also has an
> overriding loyalty to Israel and would gladly cause or allow harm to
> the US if he thinks it would benefit Israel? That about sum it up?
> Would it be fair to say that you also believe the same the same is
> true of Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld and Cheney?
>
> Might I take it one step futher and surmise that you also believe that
> GW Bush is little more than a dimwitted lackey that's being misadvised
> and led around on a string by this handful of rotten bastards? Or do
> you believe he is a dimwitted but willing participant whose motivation
> is also money?
>
> Joe Barta

SNIP
> Fellow - I know you will respond to this with your usual string of
> mindless profanity.

Then why bother?

> Get a job. Do something useful with your time. Get screwed.

Do you think you just did something useful with your time??

> So There
> RonB
>

2006.2257.261 wrote:

<snip quite a bit of interesting information and worthy items of
discussion>

I have a question... how much of that was written by you and how much
was written by others?

Joe Barta

2006.2257.261 wrote:

> The Generals and the US Military were not the
> ones, who recommended getting Saddam or spreading Freedom &
> Democracy.It was 100% POLITICAL by Perle, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld &
> Cheney who wanted Iraq.

Well first, I hope you believe in the idea that the military is and
should be subserviant to the civilian authority. So while generals
might make their recommendations, it's the politians that call the
shots.

Second, it's true that Perle, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld and Cheney were very
instrumental in getting our country to take military action in Iraq.
It would seem that you very much disagree with them. What was their
argument and where do you disagree?

Third, I'm wondering which of the following three charcterizations is
closest to what you would attribute to Perle et all...

1) Simple minded fools bungling though complex issues. They meant no
harm but they screwed everything up.

2) Evil, self-serving bastards that seek nothing more than to line
their own pockets in any way they can. They repeatedly lie to cover up
their nefarious intentions.

3) They promoted/are promoting a cause that they feel is good and
just. They are not evil or profiteers, but are ideologes that have a
plan for the world and are prepared to shove it down our collective
throats and will commit any crime to see it their vision fulfilled.

If those aren't suitable I'd be happy to hear one of your own.

Joe Barta

Woodchuck34 wrote:

> I just don't appreciate reading about it here. This is where I
> come to read about woodworking, not war, politics, or even
> recipes. I get a heavy dose of those items every where else I
> turn. I come here to relax and discuss woodworking.

Oh my, what you say is music to our friend's ears. Getting in your
face and annoying the piss out of you while you're trying to relax is
EXACTLY what he wants to do.

Even he knows he's not accomplishing much, but until he figures out
something more useful or effective to do, we're stuck with him.

> Please stop this here. Please continue your message somewhere
> else.

You have much to learn. I fear you have no idea how futile the above
request is.

Fret not though... usenet is a wonderful place with an amazing variety
of personalities and discussion... some of it even on-topic by people
that know what they're talking about! Just do yourself a big favor and
grow a little thick skin and learn to flex your ignore muscles if you
must.

Joe Barta

2006.2257.261 wrote:

> Isn't it nice to sit back and Relax!
>
> with all of your arms and legs and not getting your buddies blood
> or anybody elses on you and in your mind.

People die of cancer every day and I can relax.
People die in automobile accidents every day and I can relax.
People die of starvation every day and I can relax.
People are subject to injustice every day and I can relax.
People expoit others every day and I can relax.
People get beaten and children get abused every day and I can relax.
People are murdered every day and I can relax.
People suffer every day and I can relax.
Soldiers die and are wounded in conflict every day and I can relax.

Feel free to think me a heartless bastard.

People like me are the norm. You are that way too. Just because you
pick one particular issue to flail about does not make you any more of
a heartless bastard than anyone else. It just makes you a noisy
heartless bastard.

Joe Barta

2006.2257.261 wrote:

> Well Perle is simply a pencil pusher and an expert in bureaucratic
> intrigue. He is also a member of PNAC***, and a pro-supporter of
> Israel isn't he?It's apparent as a servant of the People of
> America, he has easily placed his desires above and beyond those
> of the American Public he serves. His advice is his own agenda.

So I gather that in your opinion, Perle is little more than a greedy
bastard looking to line his pockets, and he will use his influence on
the world stage to manipulate individuals and governments in any way
possible to increase his own financial holdings? That he also has an
overriding loyalty to Israel and would gladly cause or allow harm to
the US if he thinks it would benefit Israel? That about sum it up?
Would it be fair to say that you also believe the same the same is
true of Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld and Cheney?

Might I take it one step futher and surmise that you also believe that
GW Bush is little more than a dimwitted lackey that's being misadvised
and led around on a string by this handful of rotten bastards? Or do
you believe he is a dimwitted but willing participant whose motivation
is also money?

Joe Barta

Woodchuck34 wrote:

> entire country. The PODUS should be able to have affairs...

President Of Deez United States?

woodarama wrote:

> fo

Reminds me of a joke...

What says fee-fi-fo fee-fi-fo-fo?

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
A black man giving his telephone number.

:-)

Joe Barta

He got tired of it......................



"Woodchuck34" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am actually interested to know why Tom left. I was upset to read his
> goodbye posts. Loved his writing and he helped me on more than a few
> projects with his posts.
>
> Chuck
>

You would Trust the CIA? They even missed Hamas winning in
Palestine.............Bloomberg is financial I did know that some error is
on my side. But Thanks I should stand corrected, but my point is still
supported. I think the errors was in my Conversion from Rubles Yen etc. but
it can also be dependent on when the numbers are crunched to a degree. I
should have checked here myself, but after 9/11 they still can't get a base
hit!

Thanks again!



<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/fields/2056.html
>

SUCK SHIT
"stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Piss off!
>

I see you voted for Bush...........



"Woodchuck34" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I had a small house of brokerage on Wall Street... many days no
> business come to my hut... my hut... but Jimmy has fear? A thousand
> times no. I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey
>
>
>
> strong bowels were girded with strength like the loins of a dragon
> ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo... dung. ...Glorious
> sunset of my heart was fading. Soon the super karate monkey death car
> would park in my space. But Jimmy has fancy plans... and pants to
> match. The monkey clown horrible karate round and yummy like cute small
>
>
>
> baby chick would beat the donkey.
>

Reference? You need Reference to Osama being alive? Credibility? Osama
wasn't on the tape released as few weeks back? You need Reference to Osama
attacking America on 9/11? So JACKASS-OF-ALL-TRADES. What Proof do you need?
I can look out the window and where there used to be these Big Shiny Boxy
Steel Towers.................is a void! NOTHING, NADA, AIR, SPACE? Reference
that!

See you can't dispute one fucking thing so you cluck cluck and cluck.

Hope you don't work on other peoples things....... You accept to much shitty
work and have no idea what a Quality job is..................... your teeth
must be rotted and brown from eating all that shit, that's for sure,
Buttercup!







"J T" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Tue, Feb 7, 2006, 3:15pm (EST+5) [email protected] (2006.2257.261) now
> doth burble:
> <snippity of it all>
>
> Hey Buttercup, where's the references to all that? Lot of
> statements, but nothing about the sources. Lacks credibility. No
> credibility, no interest. Or, if that's just your opinion, say that.
> Eat recycled food, have a nice next life.
>
>
>
> JOAT
> Don't believe everything you think.
>

No thats your mothers daily prayer



"Humanid" <nope> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "2006.2257.261"
>> Eat shit, Run Rabid and Bark at the Moon.
>
>
> Hey, the new DNC slogan. Gotta admit, they practice what they preach.
>
>
>

>
> You messed up your reply. Unless you were calling "none" Numbers guy.
>
No "None" was the first to break on him and I just stepped in behind him. I
think he knows who I was talking about.

That's part of it, you will read it here and you won't find it elsewhere.
The other point is I've been here longer then most, I always found Tom
Watson to be a really nice guy with an expert answer. He posted an OT: about
Iraq and all the crud and all the shit who couldn't hold a candle to either
Tom's ass or mine came out of the wood work only to vilify him. No respect
and now these same folks don't get any and boy does it piss them off.

But examine the NG's any of them and today what you get is 9 smart ass
answers of NO VALUE and maybe one that helps. They've been hijacked by
morons who get off on screwing with people, posting answers of no value just
to post and see their names on the board. It is "They" who have forced all
the real quality people off the NG's...............and it seems these cruds
are all Bush supporters.....




"Woodchuck34" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I actually did, but I'm not at all against people expressing opposing
> view points. I appreciate your passion for this subject and your
> desire to keep the lives we are losing in the forefront. As a country
> we lack the ability to listen.
>
> I just don't appreciate reading about it here. This is where I come to
> read about woodworking, not war, politics, or even recipes. I get a
> heavy dose of those items every where else I turn. I come here to
> relax and discuss woodworking.
>
> Please stop this here. Please continue your message somewhere else.
>
> Chuck
>

Get your head out of your ass and go to work and do something productive to
help make things better instead of bitching all the time.

I wasn't overly concerned simply because, our budget is beyond any reality
and NOBODY could touch it. What I will do later is add up the Whole World's
budget and it most likely will still be less then ours.

Thanks Again.


<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> 2006.2257.261 wrote:
>> You would Trust the CIA?
> They even missed Hamas winning in
>> Palestine.............Bloomberg is financial I did know that some error
>> is
>> on my side. But Thanks I should stand corrected, but my point is still
>> supported. I think the errors was in my Conversion from Rubles Yen etc.
>> but
>> it can also be dependent on when the numbers are crunched to a degree. I
>> should have checked here myself, but after 9/11 they still can't get a
>> base
>> hit!
>>
>> Thanks again!
>>
>>
>>
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/fields/2056.html
>> >
>
> Trust maybe maybe not. Don't recall them publishing their anticipated
> election results. I think I would also differentiate between anyones
> ability to determine the psychology of the palistinians and collect
> financial data of froiegn countries
> Well in the case of India seems to be nealy 10:1 error. But thats Ok
> cause most of our national press can't do a first order sanity check on
> whether a 'fact' seems reasonable let alone verify with multiple
> sources.
>

your the one cryin' about it..............................



"Joe Barta" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> 2006.2257.261 wrote:
>
>> Isn't it nice to sit back and Relax!
>>
>> with all of your arms and legs and not getting your buddies blood
>> or anybody elses on you and in your mind.
>
> People die of cancer every day and I can relax.
> People die in automobile accidents every day and I can relax.
> People die of starvation every day and I can relax.
> People are subject to injustice every day and I can relax.
> People expoit others every day and I can relax.
> People get beaten and children get abused every day and I can relax.
> People are murdered every day and I can relax.
> People suffer every day and I can relax.
> Soldiers die and are wounded in conflict every day and I can relax.
>
> Feel free to think me a heartless bastard.
>
> People like me are the norm. You are that way too. Just because you
> pick one particular issue to flail about does not make you any more of
> a heartless bastard than anyone else. It just makes you a noisy
> heartless bastard.
>
> Joe Barta

Eat shit, Run Rabid and Bark at the Moon.


"none" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Get your head out of your ass and go to work and do something productive
> to help make things better instead of bitching all the time.
>
>
>

Piss off!

BLOW Me!
"RonB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:EixGf.2292$Nq1.1379@dukeread11...
>I have been waiting for someone to break into one of these because I didn't
>want to be the first to feed this poor, miserable troll.
>
> Numbers guy, you must lead a very shallow, miserable life. You remind me
> of one of Kansas' worst citizens the "reverend" Fred Phelps. I didn't
> capitalize the word Reverend because he doesn't deserve it. He has spent
> the past few years occupying his thoughts with hate and disgust and has
> totally lost lock on reality. This is a guy who demonstrates at soldier's
> funerals because he has rationalized that God hates soldiers. The
> absurdity of your responses to any challenge puts you in a similar
> category. You are using tragedy to feed your own sick, stupid ego. You
> are a shame to the human existence.
>
> Fellow - I know you will respond to this with your usual string of
> mindless profanity. I won't read it. The very sad thing is that your
> intent could be good. Your responses are disgusting and pathetic. As
> sick as I am with your responses, I kind of feel sorry for you. You
> wallow in a very sad, sorrowful, wasteful existence.
>
> Get a job. Do something useful with your time. Get screwed.
>
> So There
> RonB
>

the only loser is your parents asswipe!

"stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message
news:644Hf.22408$%[email protected]...
> Bahhhhhh! Wooooooo! Good one loser boy!
>
>
> "2006.2257.261" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:6eVGf.30714$%i3.27725@trnddc02...
>>I ain't your wife fagboy
>>
>>
>>
>> "stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message
>> news:SwTGf.20530$%[email protected]...
>>> Bite me
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

I did Bloomberg...................


<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The Bush Budget is $2.77 Trillion Dollars.
> The Republic of China's Budget is $30 Billion
> Russia's Budget is $70 Billion.
> India's Budget is $17 Billion
> Japan's Budget is $394 Billion
>
>
> Might want to recheck a few of these
>