old varnish

MikeG: Thank you for being the voice of reason.

Mike: The existing finish has failed. It must be removed. Putting
anything on top of old varnish, without a lot more prep work, will
eventually peel off. If a new finish did manage to stick, the underlying
varnish will still peel and the whole thing will come off.
It is highly unlikely that lacquer is currently on the cabinets. It
would have failed in a kitchen environment a long time ago. The finish
sounds as though it is so degraded that even acetone is having an effect.
ATM (alcohol, acetone, toluene) strippers can soften old varnish but only
because the finish is shot.

Good Luck.


"Mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...>
> I'd have to disagree here.
>
> Varnish, a mix of curing oil, carrier/thinner, resins, unlike shellac or
> lacquer who's thinners are also their solvents (they dissolve the
> finish), alcohol and lacquer thinner respectively, has no solvent. When
> it is cured it is REALLY cured and the only effective way to remove it
> is sanding, scraping, or using a strong chemical stripper.
>
> That being the facts of the matter, new varnish will NOT meld with old
> cured varnish. Sanding old varnish will provide a mechanical means for
> new varnish to grip and hold too old, This is commonly called providing
> "tooth". The problem is that if the old varnish is aged, chipped,
> peeling, not only are you putting a new coat on top of one with a
> dubious bond to the wood but also, since there is no meld, layers have
> to be built up then sanded back to avoid witness lines.
>
>
>
> --
> MikeG
> Heirloom Woods
> www.heirloom-woods.net
> [email protected]

[email protected] (Mike) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I have 28 year old varnished kitchen cabinets, with age greasy fingers

A varnish finish can be rejuvenated fairly quickly and successfully by
cleaning the surfaces with denatured alcohol. Use a light steel wool
on the tough spots, and do not sand. The alcohol will leach the dirt
out of the pores and leave most of what is actual patina.
You do not need to worry about getting every bit of the old finish
off, as new varnish will meld with the old.

Acetone would sure soften lacquer. Pretty common thing to spray on cabinets
when.

I think Formby's (Thompson-Minwax) used to have a "refinisher" featuring MEK
and acetone, but I never saw a fully favorable review.

Looks like it's under their own marque now
http://www.minwax.com/products/specialty/furn-refinish.cfm

"Mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, mdm27613
> @yahoo.com says...
> > I have 28 year old varnished kitchen cabinets, with age greasy fingers
> > have turned the varnish black, crackly. It's soft so easy enough to
> > scrape off but it goes all the way through the stain leaving uneven
> > spots. I would like to avoid stripping as they have decor pieces that
> > would slow doing it right.
> >
> > I saw some stuff, Acetone I guess, that softened the old finish/stain
> > so it would redistribute. Has anyone tried that? I surely do enjoy
> > working small projects to a perfect Tung finish, but this is a large
> > project with more emphasis on getting it done. Suggestions please?
> > Thanks,
> > Mike
> >
> If acetone softens the finish chances are it isn't varnish and
> regardless of what kind of finish it is the chances of getting a set of
> kitchen cabinets look anywhere near presentable are slim.
>

In article <[email protected]>, mdm27613
@yahoo.com says...
> I have 28 year old varnished kitchen cabinets, with age greasy fingers
> have turned the varnish black, crackly. It's soft so easy enough to
> scrape off but it goes all the way through the stain leaving uneven
> spots. I would like to avoid stripping as they have decor pieces that
> would slow doing it right.
>
> I saw some stuff, Acetone I guess, that softened the old finish/stain
> so it would redistribute. Has anyone tried that? I surely do enjoy
> working small projects to a perfect Tung finish, but this is a large
> project with more emphasis on getting it done. Suggestions please?
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
If acetone softens the finish chances are it isn't varnish and
regardless of what kind of finish it is the chances of getting a set of
kitchen cabinets look anywhere near presentable are slim.

As a general rule the hard way is usually the right way and the right
way is usually the way to get a decent job done.Taking the easy way out
usually results in a job that looks like you took the easy way out.

--
MikeG
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
[email protected]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> [email protected] (Mike) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > I have 28 year old varnished kitchen cabinets, with age greasy fingers
>
> A varnish finish can be rejuvenated fairly quickly and successfully by
> cleaning the surfaces with denatured alcohol. Use a light steel wool
> on the tough spots, and do not sand. The alcohol will leach the dirt
> out of the pores and leave most of what is actual patina.
> You do not need to worry about getting every bit of the old finish
> off, as new varnish will meld with the old.
>

I'd have to disagree here.

Varnish, a mix of curing oil, carrier/thinner, resins, unlike shellac or
lacquer who's thinners are also their solvents (they dissolve the
finish), alcohol and lacquer thinner respectively, has no solvent. When
it is cured it is REALLY cured and the only effective way to remove it
is sanding, scraping, or using a strong chemical stripper.

That being the facts of the matter, new varnish will NOT meld with old
cured varnish. Sanding old varnish will provide a mechanical means for
new varnish to grip and hold too old, This is commonly called providing
"tooth". The problem is that if the old varnish is aged, chipped,
peeling, not only are you putting a new coat on top of one with a
dubious bond to the wood but also, since there is no meld, layers have
to be built up then sanded back to avoid witness lines.



--
MikeG
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
[email protected]