Router Bit Depth of Cut Creep - One Cause Of

charlie b wrote:
>

I've had a terrible time maintaining depth of cut
with plunge routers. If I press down hard the
cut gets deeper, probably as the hammering makes
the depth stop creep. If I don't press down hard
the depth gets shallow, probably the hammering
makes the lock slip.

I don't have that problem with fixed-base routers.

--

FF

charlie b wrote:
> Frank Drackman wrote:
> >
> > No need for referring to the manuals. It is router 101 and everyone who
> > uses a router should know it.
>
> And there's the rub - the "it's common knowledge so not worth
> mentioning" thing. There's a great deal of "basic fundamentals"
> (don't you just love redundancy) that authors of books and
> articles assume everyone knows or is just so obvious that
> it doesn't warrant getting into. I've got quite a woodworking
> library - books and just about every magazine over the last
> four or five years - and with the exception of some Ian Kirby
> articles, there's almost nothing on the importance of stock
> prep and how to prep stock properly - and check to make
> sure it is.
>
> When I first got into woodworking a cabinet maker friend
> told me "you can't make rectangles out of trapezoids or
> curved parts.". If all the corners aren't square and all
> the edges and ends aren't straight when you start making
> parts for the blurfle you're making . . .
>
> The Obvious often is only obvious after someone points
> it out - or - you spend a lot of time analyzing what you
> thought would work but didn't in order to figure out why.
>
> If the tips I post here give the impression that I think
> you're an idiot who needs a lot of hand holding, please
> realize that I write this stuff down for my own use.
> Once written down it's no effort at all to pass it along.
> Use the info, don't use the info - your call.
>
> charlie b

well, aside from just helping the flat out green newbies- which is a
noble thing to do- there's also the thing of keeping a large body of
knowledge in motion. on some levels I might be able to stand up as an
advanced woodworker, but on some other levels I'm kind of struggling
along trying to figure out the basics. stuff like not bottoming out the
router bits is well worthwhile discussed here. hell, it's even on topic.

What's a manual?

"I use rubber o-rings to keep from bottoming out the bits.

Max "

:-)
I thought I'd better read the whole thread to make sure somebody else
hadn't said that first. I remember reading somewhere in the
woodshopdemos website that he really liked the idea especially when
using matched bits for joinery cuts. Just drop a small o ring in the
collet and that bit is exactly where you want it.

Someday I'm going to try that too. :-) So far I've never had any
trouble with depth creep or anything else but if I ever have to do
something complicated with two bits, I've got that little tip in mind.

Frank Drackman wrote:

> I think that if you read the manual with your router you have found the same
> instructions

Manual? Routers come with manuals - when you buy them new?

You actually read the manual for each tool?

You can afford to buy a router - NEW?

You can remember where you put the manual for the new router
you bought a year or two ago?

Now I'm going to have to search the shop AND the house
for the manuals for each of my mallets.

charlie b

Frank Drackman wrote:
>
> No need for referring to the manuals. It is router 101 and everyone who
> uses a router should know it.

And there's the rub - the "it's common knowledge so not worth
mentioning" thing. There's a great deal of "basic fundamentals"
(don't you just love redundancy) that authors of books and
articles assume everyone knows or is just so obvious that
it doesn't warrant getting into. I've got quite a woodworking
library - books and just about every magazine over the last
four or five years - and with the exception of some Ian Kirby
articles, there's almost nothing on the importance of stock
prep and how to prep stock properly - and check to make
sure it is.

When I first got into woodworking a cabinet maker friend
told me "you can't make rectangles out of trapezoids or
curved parts.". If all the corners aren't square and all
the edges and ends aren't straight when you start making
parts for the blurfle you're making . . .

The Obvious often is only obvious after someone points
it out - or - you spend a lot of time analyzing what you
thought would work but didn't in order to figure out why.

If the tips I post here give the impression that I think
you're an idiot who needs a lot of hand holding, please
realize that I write this stuff down for my own use.
Once written down it's no effort at all to pass it along.
Use the info, don't use the info - your call.

charlie b

see "Defective Router Bit? in a.b.p.w.

charlie b

Enoch Root wrote:

> I had to scrounge for the "manual" for my router (a stanley #71) on the
> 'Net. Nuthin' in there about collet nuts, bottoming out, vibration, etc. :)

My manual doesn't have anything about bottoming out. It's a Bosch 1617
and the collet is deep enough that I think I'd have to go to a long 1/2"
bit before I could bottom it out anyway.

It does say to leave a bit of room between the cutter and the collet, I
assume to allow for the usual rounded transition from the shaft to the
cutter.

Chris

"charlie b" wrote:

> Manual? Routers come with manuals - when you buy them new?
>
> You actually read the manual for each tool?
>
> You can afford to buy a router - NEW?
>
> You can remember where you put the manual for the new router
> you bought a year or two ago?


SFWIW

After having ALL my tools stolen a few years ago, I refuse to buy used
tools unless the seller can provide a legitimate bill of sale showing
they actually bought the item.

Every time I buy a tool, I write the purchase date on the cover of the
manual, scan the manual, put it in a plastic folder, then file the
plastic folders away for reference.

Works for me.

Lew

>
> Real men don't read manuals? <G>
>
> Max
When all else fails, go back and read (find?) the instructions.

"Frank Drackman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> No need for referring to the manuals. It is router 101 and everyone who
> uses a router should know it.

Naturally, I guess the person buying their first router will know it too.

Frank Drackman wrote:
> "charlie b" <[email protected]> wrote in message >
>
>>Solution: Seat the bit to the bottom of the hole, then raise it 1/16th
>>and then tighten the collet nut
>>
>
>
> I think that if you read the manual with your router you have found the same
> instructions

I had to scrounge for the "manual" for my router (a stanley #71) on the
'Net. Nuthin' in there about collet nuts, bottoming out, vibration, etc. :)

er
--
email not valid

charlie b wrote:

> (Gleaned from the Router Jigs and Techniques with Bernie Maas and
> Michael Fortune video tape Taunton Bools & Videos ISBN 0-918804-60-4)
>
>
> Seating a router bit in the router collet and tightening the collet nut
> is pretty straight foreward. Then you’re depth of cut setting starts
> changing, getting deeper with each cut, especially with a dovetail bit.
> You clean the collet and the bit and try again, this time making sure
> the bit is fully seated and REALLY snug up the collet nut.
>
> You route some more dovetails and things seem to be ok - ‘til you put
> the parts together. The fit is close between the half pin and adjacent
> tail and then gets worse acrossed the parts.
>
> Here’s what may be happening.
>
> If the bit is inserted ‘til it bottoms out, vibration while routing will
> cause the bottom of the hole to “hammer” the bottom of the bit up, no
> matter how much you tighten the collet nut.
>
> Solution: Seat the bit to the bottom of the hole, then raise it 1/16th
> and then tighten the collet nut
>
> || ||
> || || NO. Bit bottomed out in hole will hammer
> || || itself loose in use
> +====+
>
> || ||
> || || YES. Bottom of bit at least 1/16th inch
> |+--+ | above the bottom of hole
> +----+
>
> just something to think about
>
> charlie b
That is documented in the router manual, though on the craftsman router I
had no matter how tight you tightened the collet the bit would work its way
loose. Haven't had that problem with the PC I replaced it with.

> I haven't had the problem since I replaced the Craftsman with a Bosch.
> Why is it that Craftsman can't seem to make a router collet?
>
My guess is they don't need to because nearly everyone buys a craftsman
*before* they buy a Bosch, PC, Milwaukee......etc.......

J (who was guilty of the above) C

"charlie b" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Frank Drackman wrote:
>
>> I think that if you read the manual with your router you have found the
>> same
>> instructions
>
> Manual? Routers come with manuals - when you buy them new?
>
> You actually read the manual for each tool?
>
> You can afford to buy a router - NEW?
>
> You can remember where you put the manual for the new router
> you bought a year or two ago?
>
> Now I'm going to have to search the shop AND the house
> for the manuals for each of my mallets.
>
> charlie b

No need for referring to the manuals. It is router 101 and everyone who
uses a router should know it.

"charlie b" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> (Gleaned from the Router Jigs and Techniques with Bernie Maas and
> Michael Fortune video tape Taunton Bools & Videos ISBN 0-918804-60-4)
>
>
> Seating a router bit in the router collet and tightening the collet nut
> is pretty straight foreward. Then you're depth of cut setting starts
> changing, getting deeper with each cut, especially with a dovetail bit.
> You clean the collet and the bit and try again, this time making sure
> the bit is fully seated and REALLY snug up the collet nut.
>
> You route some more dovetails and things seem to be ok - 'til you put
> the parts together. The fit is close between the half pin and adjacent
> tail and then gets worse acrossed the parts.
>
> Here's what may be happening.
>
> If the bit is inserted 'til it bottoms out, vibration while routing will
> cause the bottom of the hole to "hammer" the bottom of the bit up, no
> matter how much you tighten the collet nut.
>
> Solution: Seat the bit to the bottom of the hole, then raise it 1/16th
> and then tighten the collet nut
>
> || ||
> || || NO. Bit bottomed out in hole will hammer
> || || itself loose in use
> +====+
>
> || ||
> || || YES. Bottom of bit at least 1/16th inch
> |+--+ | above the bottom of hole
> +----+
>
> just something to think about
>
> charlie b

I use rubber o-rings to keep from bottoming out the bits.

Max

"Frank Drackman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "charlie b" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Frank Drackman wrote:
>>
>>> I think that if you read the manual with your router you have found the
>>> same
>>> instructions
>>
>> Manual? Routers come with manuals - when you buy them new?
>>
>> You actually read the manual for each tool?
>>
>> You can afford to buy a router - NEW?
>>
>> You can remember where you put the manual for the new router
>> you bought a year or two ago?
>>
>> Now I'm going to have to search the shop AND the house
>> for the manuals for each of my mallets.
>>
>> charlie b
>
> No need for referring to the manuals. It is router 101 and everyone who
> uses a router should know it.

Real men don't read manuals? <G>

Max

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "I use rubber o-rings to keep from bottoming out the bits.
>
> Max "
>
> :-)
> I thought I'd better read the whole thread to make sure somebody else
> hadn't said that first. I remember reading somewhere in the
> woodshopdemos website that he really liked the idea especially when
> using matched bits for joinery cuts. Just drop a small o ring in the
> collet and that bit is exactly where you want it.
>
> Someday I'm going to try that too. :-) So far I've never had any
> trouble with depth creep or anything else but if I ever have to do
> something complicated with two bits, I've got that little tip in mind.
>

Been working for me ever since I bought a "good" router several years ago.
:-)

Max

"Eugene Nine" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> charlie b wrote:
>
>> (Gleaned from the Router Jigs and Techniques with Bernie Maas and
>> Michael Fortune video tape Taunton Bools & Videos ISBN 0-918804-60-4)
>>
>>
>> Seating a router bit in the router collet and tightening the collet nut
>> is pretty straight foreward. Then you're depth of cut setting starts
>> changing, getting deeper with each cut, especially with a dovetail bit.
>> You clean the collet and the bit and try again, this time making sure
>> the bit is fully seated and REALLY snug up the collet nut.
>>
>> You route some more dovetails and things seem to be ok - 'til you put
>> the parts together. The fit is close between the half pin and adjacent
>> tail and then gets worse acrossed the parts.
>>
>> Here's what may be happening.
>>
>> If the bit is inserted 'til it bottoms out, vibration while routing will
>> cause the bottom of the hole to "hammer" the bottom of the bit up, no
>> matter how much you tighten the collet nut.
>>
>> Solution: Seat the bit to the bottom of the hole, then raise it 1/16th
>> and then tighten the collet nut
>>
>> || ||
>> || || NO. Bit bottomed out in hole will hammer
>> || || itself loose in use
>> +====+
>>
>> || ||
>> || || YES. Bottom of bit at least 1/16th inch
>> |+--+ | above the bottom of hole
>> +----+
>>
>> just something to think about
>>
>> charlie b
> That is documented in the router manual, though on the craftsman router I
> had no matter how tight you tightened the collet the bit would work its
> way
> loose. Haven't had that problem with the PC I replaced it with.

I haven't had the problem since I replaced the Craftsman with a Bosch.
Why is it that Craftsman can't seem to make a router collet?

"charlie b" <[email protected]> wrote in message >
> Solution: Seat the bit to the bottom of the hole, then raise it 1/16th
> and then tighten the collet nut
>

I think that if you read the manual with your router you have found the same
instructions