Update with the Northfield Jointer

Bill wrote:
> Sonny wrote:
>
>> One other thing:  Electrician said the converter will make lots
>> of noise.
>
> You can probably look up the DB level (as part of the
> specifications). I saw one powering a lathe and the noise level
> seemed reasonable. As you may know, I think it's basically just
> another motor. At one point, I had some knowledge of how it
> worked, but I forget the details (but they are out there if you
> are interested).  Good luck!  I have confidence
> that it will go well!
>

I went searching--it wasn't on the specification sheet. The
manufacturer's website says "quiet operation". Surely they could
provide you with the answer in DB.

Bill

Sonny wrote:

> One other thing: Electrician said the converter will make lots of noise.

You can probably look up the DB level (as part of the
specifications). I saw one powering a lathe and the noise level
seemed reasonable. As you may know, I think it's basically just
another motor. At one point, I had some knowledge of how it
worked, but I forget the details (but they are out there if you
are interested). Good luck! I have confidence
that it will go well!

Bill

On Monday, July 22, 2019 at 9:49:05 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:

> What did you get for the converter?=20

This is what I bought, what I was told was needed.... I suppose because of =
the 7.5 HP motor on the jointer.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/290900842912

I'm not knowledgeable of these electrical things. I want the jointer in wo=
rking order. If this is what's needed, then I'm happy. If not, then the p=
urchase is a lesson learned. The electrician said we are good to go, thou=
gh. I have all the breakers, wiring needed, etc. I just need to build t=
he closet for the converter. The panel doesn't need to be encased inside =
the closet.

One other thing: Electrician said the converter will make lots of noise. =
The few reviews state this converter is quiet.... compared to what? I su=
ppose the noise will depend on user's ears, location, scenario, etc. The c=
loset should be a muffler of sorts. I can always line the closet with uph=
olstery fabric, a sound/echo reducer (re: curtains, fabric on walls in a th=
eater). We'll see.


The Phoenix unit I bought is just a=20
> control panel and a TEFC idler motor that needs nothing special=20
> whatsoever...seems like an awful lot of trouble to have to go to.
>=20
> Glad to hear the jointer itself appears in near pristine shape...this=20
> ought to be fun!!! :)

I still haven't had the broken ship wheel welded. I was told the cast met=
al might not hold a weld. I'm hoping not much pressure would be applied t=
o the wheel, during use, to break the welds. I'll probably set the infeed=
for a minimum cut and never need to adjust it. =20

Sonny

> > I have some 19" wide live edge hickory I'd like to try.
> >
> Yeah, with beds slicked up, it'll be ok as long as the piece isn't also
> so long and/or thick you have really tough time even picking it
> up...sometimes it's hard to actually keep the pressure in the right
> place to take the crooks out, too.

I have 3 of these hickory boards - rough cut 2" X 17+" X 10' long.... for another trestle table. Another nephew is building a camp, needs an 8' table. Each is fairly heavy, but I can handle them.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/48367588677/in/dateposted-public/

I have the trestle board and four 3'- 4' boards for the legs. Leg boards are about 15"-17" wide, also.

I have another three 10' boards to select from for a bench, maybe, I'm thinking similar to the cypress trestle bench.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/28956092150/in/dateposted-public/

The son of my nephew from NC is visiting. We'll rearrange the shop's garage a little, to better accommodate the jointer. I like taking advantage of young muscles.

Sonny

On Tuesday, July 23, 2019 at 3:35:14 AM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
> Bill wrote:
> > Sonny wrote:
> >=20
> >> One other thing:=C2=A0 Electrician said the converter will make lots=
=20
> >> of noise.=20
> >=20
> > You can probably look up the DB level (as part of the=20
> > specifications). I saw one powering a lathe and the noise level
> > seemed reasonable. As you may know, I think it's basically just=20
> > another motor. At one point, I had some knowledge of how it=20
> > worked, but I forget the details (but they are out there if you=20
> > are interested).=C2=A0 Good luck!=C2=A0 I have confidence
> > that it will go well!
> >=20
>=20
> I went searching--it wasn't on the specification sheet. The=20
> manufacturer's website says "quiet operation". Surely they could=20
> provide you with the answer in DB.
>=20
> Bill

DB might not matter. I'll probably rarely use the jointer, besides, I hav=
e ear muffs. I just like the idea of getting this nice old machine up and=
running.

Whenever I've had a motor issue I always go to Judice Electric and ask for =
advice. These guys are pros, serving the oil field and other big-time com=
mercial arenas. They've tested, at no charge, any motors I've brought to t=
hem and give free advice, recommendations, specs for what I've needed, etc.

To do the converter work/wiring, Judice recommended Aaron Dodge (A-Dodge El=
ectric), as Judice says he's the man for 3-PH stuff and is highly recommend=
ed by others as well. Aaron probably mentioned the noise issue because of=
other similar applications he's dealt with, so may have been giving me a h=
eads up about potential noise. I certainly appreciated his advice about d=
ust control, also, something I wouldn't have known or thought about. His =
experience showed in his giving such preventative advice. =20

Aaron's advice about elevating the converter off the slab would guard again=
st possible high water during heavy rain or flooding, also, though I've yet=
to have a high water issue, here.

Aaron helped cover most if not all my bases about this installation.... so =
for, anyway. He estimated 2 hours to get the jointer wired and running.

Sonny

On Tuesday, July 23, 2019 at 1:26:44 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:

> I still can't imagine what could possibly be noisy from just the phase
> converter unless the motor is mounted on a drum that "sings" or isn't
> fastened down and vibrates something. It's just a motor sitting there
> spinning, for heaven's sake. What's to be noise generator?
>
> I sat mine on a high density foam pad to keep it from being in direct
> contact w/ the floor slab and other than a motor hum, there's no noise
> at all.

After thinking about it, you're probably right about not much noise to be made.

> They probably recommend 6 ga input;

Yep.

> 10 ga output will be fine.

Yep.

> Fully loaded, it could pull 30A on input side;

That's what Aaron said.

> more likely it'll be about 20A given no more heavy use you're liable to put on the jointer...altho a full-capacity cut if ever were to try it would be pretty hefty given the size. Of course, you have to be able to lift and
move the workpiece... :)

I have some 19" wide live edge hickory I'd like to try. I have infeed & outfeed rollers to assist for now. I have some formica topped tables I'd like to install for infeed/outfeed.

When I had some 12" walnut jointed at a local shop, the guy just pushed the boards by hand with no trouble. As long as I take shallow cuts, the cutting should be just as smooth. I'll joint/test smaller boards first.

Sonny

On 7/22/2019 7:45 PM, Sonny wrote:
> Had an electrician (B Team?) come by to inspect the converter and
> tool area. He didn't quite understand the specs, etal. for the
> converter wiring. He took the paperwork to review and show the company owner.
>
> Owner came by to further inspect. I need to build a separate
> "closet", like an enclosed area of a central heating/cooling unit. He said the
converter motor will > be pulling lots of air, needs lots of ventilation
WITH NO DUST, emphasis
> on wanting as little dust, as possible, to enter the converter motor.
...

What did you get for the converter? The Phoenix unit I bought is just a
control panel and a TEFC idler motor that needs nothing special
whatsoever...seems like an awful lot of trouble to have to go to.

Glad to hear the jointer itself appears in near pristine shape...this
ought to be fun!!! :)

--

On 7/23/2019 12:08 AM, Sonny wrote:
> On Monday, July 22, 2019 at 9:49:05 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
>
>> What did you get for the converter?
>
> This is what I bought, what I was told was needed.... I suppose because of the 7.5 HP motor on the jointer.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/290900842912
>
> I'm not knowledgeable of these electrical things. I want the jointer in working order. If this is what's needed, then I'm happy. If not, then the purchase is a lesson learned. The electrician said we are good to go, though. I have all the breakers, wiring needed, etc. I just need to build the closet for the converter. The panel doesn't need to be encased inside the closet.
>
> One other thing: Electrician said the converter will make lots of noise. The few reviews state this converter is quiet.... compared to what? I suppose the noise will depend on user's ears, location, scenario, etc. The closet should be a muffler of sorts. I can always line the closet with upholstery fabric, a sound/echo reducer (re: curtains, fabric on walls in a theater). We'll see.

That's an open-case motor instead of TEFC but I think a "closet" is way
overkill for the need; you're not running a flour mill there, are you?
Unless you're just fogging up the area with dust, it'll be fine. There
are how many other motors in the shop already that aren't in enclosed
spaces?

It shouldn't be more than just a hum of an electric motor...don't know
why the electrician would think it would be terribly noisy. Certainly
as compared to the noise a planer or the jointer will make when running
a piece through it you'll never hear it.

I'd set it over in a corner and go on...if it gets a little dusty, use
the air hose occasionally.


...

On 7/23/2019 8:19 AM, Sonny wrote:
...

> To do the converter work/wiring, Judice recommended Aaron Dodge (A-Dodge Electric), as Judice says
> he's the man for 3-PH stuff and is highly recommended by others as
> well. Aaron probably mentioned the noise issue because of other
> similar applications he's dealt with, so may have been giving me a
> heads up about potential noise. I certainly appreciated his advice
> about dust control, also, something I wouldn't have known or thought
> about. His experience showed in his giving such preventative
> advice.

I still can't imagine what could possibly be noisy from just the phase
converter unless the motor is mounted on a drum that "sings" or isn't
fastened down and vibrates something. It's just a motor sitting there
spinning, for heaven's sake. What's to be noise generator?

I sat mine on a high density foam pad to keep it from being in direct
contact w/ the floor slab and other than a motor hum, there's no noise
at all.

Since that's not TEFC motor, there's some possible dust issue
eventually, but bound to be any number of others in the shop already,
aren't there...have they had any issues?

> Aaron's advice about elevating the converter off the slab would
> guard against possible high water during heavy rain or flooding,
> also, though I've yet to have a high water issue, here.

If there were any possibility, that would be good, indeed, particularly
since that is an open case motor.

> Aaron helped cover most if not all my bases about this
> installation.... so for, anyway. He estimated 2 hours to get the
> jointer wired and running.

All there is is a single-phase feed of sufficient ampacity to power the
converter then the three-phase to the jointer from there and to/from the
controller. They probably recommend 6 ga input; 10 ga output will be
fine. Fully loaded, it could pull 30A on input side; more likely it'll
be about 20A given no more heavy use you're liable to put on the
jointer...altho a full-capacity cut if ever were to try it would be
pretty hefty given the size. Of course, you have to be able to lift and
move the workpiece... :)

--

On 7/23/2019 7:48 PM, Sonny wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 23, 2019 at 1:26:44 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
>
>> I still can't imagine what could possibly be noisy from just the phase
>> converter unless the motor is mounted on a drum that "sings" or isn't
>> fastened down and vibrates something. It's just a motor sitting there
>> spinning, for heaven's sake. What's to be noise generator?
>>
>> I sat mine on a high density foam pad to keep it from being in direct
>> contact w/ the floor slab and other than a motor hum, there's no noise
>> at all.
>
> After thinking about it, you're probably right about not much noise to be made.
>
>> They probably recommend 6 ga input;
>
> Yep.
>
>> 10 ga output will be fine.
>
> Yep.
>
>> Fully loaded, it could pull 30A on input side;
>
> That's what Aaron said.
>
>> more likely it'll be about 20A given no more heavy use you're liable to put on the jointer...altho a full-capacity cut if ever were to try it would be pretty hefty given the size. Of course, you have to be able to lift and
> move the workpiece... :)
>
> I have some 19" wide live edge hickory I'd like to try. I have infeed & outfeed rollers to assist for now. I have some formica topped tables I'd like to install for infeed/outfeed.
>
> When I had some 12" walnut jointed at a local shop, the guy just pushed the boards by hand with no trouble. As long as I take shallow cuts, the cutting should be just as smooth. I'll joint/test smaller boards first.
>
> Sonny
>
Yeah, with beds slicked up, it'll be ok as long as the piece isn't also
so long and/or thick you have really tough time even picking it
up...sometimes it's hard to actually keep the pressure in the right
place to take the crooks out, too.

I did some fresh oak mine timbers for a friend while in VA that were a
real bear as took the both of us to even heft one of 'em off the
cart...and both he and I were _much_ younger then... :)

Made very nice timber frame for his gazebo project, but was a lot of
effort. That was using the 20" Crescent had access to back then.

--