"Cast not thy pearls before the swine, lest they trample them underfoot
and turn to gore thee."
I know at least some of you can relate to my delimma . . .
I don't really enjoy production runs very much. The thrill is gone
after the prototype goes together. But for the first time in a long
time, I agreed to build a bunch of serving trays for us to give for
Christmas presents. Now these are nothing particularly fancy, just an
open box with the sides flared at 10 degrees, arched ends with cutouts
for the handles, dovetail joints at the corners, and a laminated bottom
with a field of lacewood between narrow strips of walnut and mahogony.
I had enough scraps and leftovers from other projects to make 8 of
them.
A week or so ago, one of our better friends stopped by and found me out
in the shop with my partially completed trays stacked to a pretty
impressive height. Of course she wanted to see what I was making so I
showed her one. She was taken with the beauty of the grain in the
lacewood and went on and on about how beautiful it was. Now we have
never exchanged Christmas presents with this couple even though they
are pretty good friends, but I knew she wanted one. Problem is, all
the ones I'm building are already designated for others.
Over the next week, two other people told me she had told them about
the beautiful trays I was building. Then, last night she called me to
ask if she can buy one of my trays to give to her mother for Christmas.
I told her all of the trays were spoken for, and I don't have time to
build her one before Christmas. I still have to scramble so the finish
on these will be dry on time.
My problem is that she, like most people, really have no concept of the
amount of time and effort that goes into producing something like that.
I'm sure she would have been willing to pay a "reasonable" price for
such an item, but I'm not willing to part with them for a reasonable
sum. A "reasonable" sum wouldn't pay the heating bill for my shop,
much less buy the wood or give me any wages at all for my time. I know
I'm overstating, but you know what I mean.
How do you folks handle these situations?
DonkeyHody
"We are all ignorant, just about different things." - Will Rogers
On Dec 10, 8:43 am, "DonkeyHody" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Cast not thy pearls before the swine, lest they trample them underfoot
> and turn to gore thee."
>
> I know at least some of you can relate to my delimma . . .
Ohhhh yeah... BTDT.
What would be a nice size for a tray like that?
I am still trying to think of ways to make some money off my
sink/cooktop cut-outs made from solid surface. A serving tray might be
one possibility. But, the stuff is somewhat heavy. (About 5.33 pounds
per sq-ft)
That might be a bit heavy, no?
r
C & S wrote:
>
> That depends on you goal. As other's have suggested, it's pretty easy to
> make them go away and stop asking. But, if you want them to understand
> "amount of time and effort that goes into producing something like that"
> (without the use of sarcasm), that is a tougher nut to crack.
>
If it is just a paying customer, (I only have a few) I don't have any
problem telling them that my time in the shop is limited by my other
obligations, and that anything I make for them will be long in coming
and very expensive. The people who place a special value on the fact
that something was hand-made especially for them don't seem to mind
spending the money or waiting for me to get around to building them.
The paying customers are free to pay my prices or not get it done. No
hard feelings either way.
But family and good friends are different. They (A) seem to think I
can build anything in the world out of wood and (B) don't have a clue
how much time or expense is involved. For instance, I just finished a
trash can for our kitchen that looks more like a piece of furniture.
One friend said, "You know you could sell those!" I said, "Probably,
but you know, that one has eighty dollars worth of wood in it." She
said, "Oh." What she didn't say was, while she'd like to have one, she
didn't think it was worth more than fifty.
I think I'll apply Edwin's rule for friends and family. No sales to
them. Either you get it because I want to give it to you, or you don't
get it. No buying and no sense asking. That's the only way I can keep
up with the projects SWMBO has for me to build. And I know better than
to put her project on the back burner while I build something for
another woman, even if it is one of her friends.
DonkeyHody
"Every man is my superior in that I can learn from him." - Thomas
Carlyle
This happens to me constantly. If it's not woodworking, it's
machining, printing, web/html work, video production, editing, or DVD
duplication. I don't mind trading favors with friends who regularly
and reliably "pay it back". But, quite often it's someone who has a
WalMart sense of value and nothing to offer in return.
I weed a lot of them out by asking them to pay for all materials and to
participate in all of the work that is necessary. Many don't mind
paying for materials but most don't consider it worth their own time -
to which I say "quid pro quo". If it's not worth their time then it's
certainly not worth mine. The few that remain will end up getting the
sort of education that will strengthen the relationship and prevent
future frivolous requests.
Some people won't give up until you set a price. Be realistic. Put
together a real cost breakdown including what you time is worth (to
your employer). It will be insulting if you just toss out a high price
without any justification. But, if they see how the costs break down
then they will appreciate the value of their request. And, if they
decide to go for it, then you won't be wasting your time.
99.9% of all requests are easily handled by the above. However, I
still have one person who just doesn't seem to get it. He really has a
WalMart sense of values and views my time as worthless. None of my
efforts have changed his mind. He won't spend his own time, doesn't
want to pay for materials, doesn't value my time, and has nothing to
offer in exchange. He even resents my asking him to pay for lunch.
It's not like he's a charity case, he's always bragging about his real
estate and financial investments. Needless to say, the "friendship"
has suffered considerably. Sometimes it's unavoidable. If you don't
want to be a slave to people who take advantage of you, then the
situation is likely to become unpleasant.
Ed Bennett
[email protected]
http://www.ts-aligner.com
DonkeyHody wrote:
> "Cast not thy pearls before the swine, lest they trample them underfoot
> and turn to gore thee."
>
> I know at least some of you can relate to my delimma . . .
> I don't really enjoy production runs very much. The thrill is gone
> after the prototype goes together. But for the first time in a long
> time, I agreed to build a bunch of serving trays for us to give for
> Christmas presents. Now these are nothing particularly fancy, just an
> open box with the sides flared at 10 degrees, arched ends with cutouts
> for the handles, dovetail joints at the corners, and a laminated bottom
> with a field of lacewood between narrow strips of walnut and mahogony.
> I had enough scraps and leftovers from other projects to make 8 of
> them.
>
> A week or so ago, one of our better friends stopped by and found me out
> in the shop with my partially completed trays stacked to a pretty
> impressive height. Of course she wanted to see what I was making so I
> showed her one. She was taken with the beauty of the grain in the
> lacewood and went on and on about how beautiful it was. Now we have
> never exchanged Christmas presents with this couple even though they
> are pretty good friends, but I knew she wanted one. Problem is, all
> the ones I'm building are already designated for others.
>
> Over the next week, two other people told me she had told them about
> the beautiful trays I was building. Then, last night she called me to
> ask if she can buy one of my trays to give to her mother for Christmas.
> I told her all of the trays were spoken for, and I don't have time to
> build her one before Christmas. I still have to scramble so the finish
> on these will be dry on time.
>
> My problem is that she, like most people, really have no concept of the
> amount of time and effort that goes into producing something like that.
> I'm sure she would have been willing to pay a "reasonable" price for
> such an item, but I'm not willing to part with them for a reasonable
> sum. A "reasonable" sum wouldn't pay the heating bill for my shop,
> much less buy the wood or give me any wages at all for my time. I know
> I'm overstating, but you know what I mean.
>
> How do you folks handle these situations?
>
> DonkeyHody
> "We are all ignorant, just about different things." - Will Rogers
Swingman wrote:
> NO new projects are started in this shop until the current project is
> finished!
My whiteboard currently has 29 listed on it, and that's just the
serious stuff that actually got listed!
I also make far more money from woodworking when I give the stuff away
from my hobby, rather than trying to sell it and make a living from it.
As any crafts person can tell you, it's always better to give things
away than sell them cheaply. People appreciate a gift and they
understand they're not repeatable. Sell one thing cheap once and you've
established the market rate forever.
Somewhat related - I have these three "intarsia" pieces that I spent
hours upon hours making. Whenever I show them to someone, I invariably
hear the comment, "Hey, you know, you could sell these things!". After
having gone through the pricing analysis so many times before, now I
just simply nod my head and let the discussion move on.
> I weed a lot of them out by asking them to pay for all materials and to
> participate in all of the work that is necessary. Many don't mind
> paying for materials but most don't consider it worth their own time -
> to which I say "quid pro quo". If it's not worth their time then it's
> certainly not worth mine. The few that remain will end up getting the
> sort of education that will strengthen the relationship and prevent
> future frivolous requests.
>
He won't spend his own time, doesn't
> want to pay for materials, doesn't value my time, and has nothing to
> offer in exchange. He even resents my asking him to pay for lunch.
> It's not like he's a charity case, he's always bragging about his real
> estate and financial investments. Needless to say, the "friendship"
> has suffered considerably. Sometimes it's unavoidable. If you don't
> want to be a slave to people who take advantage of you, then the
> situation is likely to become unpleasant.
>
> Ed Bennett
I like the way you think, Ed. I've been told by some closest to me
that I have a "need to be needed" and that makes me fairly easy prey
for those parasites of society who have honed their ability to spot
fools like me. I used to think it was petty and uncharitable to keep
score. But as I've grown older, I've begun to see a pattern where
there are some people I seldom hear from unless they want something.
They're usually really friendly people, just too busy with their own
lives and their own kids to seek out your company unless there's a
direct benefit to them. And since they're so busy, of course there's
no time for them to give anything in exchange. I'm learning to keep my
distance from those people, but they seem to be everywhere. I can say
No, but it's against my nature.
Just the other night I called three people before I found the one who
borrowed 4 furniture clamps six weeks ago. Just happened to be the
husband of the lady who wants the tray. I've started hanging notes on
the wall in the blank space where a tool is supposed to be so I can
remember who borrowed it. I guess I'm going to have to start requiring
a deposit or something. Being a nice guy sure has its pitfalls.
DonkeyHody
"Friends may come and go, but enemies accumulate." - Thomas Jones
J T wrote:
>
> You shoulda said you only had enough material for the eight first
> off, that mighta stopped er in her tracks. Then if she went on, say you
> don't know when you "can" get more material - not "will", emphasize the
> can - 'cause it-s exotic "furrin" wood, and *E*X*P*E*N*S*I*V*E* -
> emphasize that, and you don't even know when you'll have the funds to
> spare for that type of furrin wood. If she persista, you can quote her
> a price up the wazoo, with no time guarantee.
>
Yup.. that's how I pretty much deal with that these days. "Unobtainum"
wood... hand cultivated by Newfoundland virgins.....extremely hard to
find. (ducking)
NEVER a time guarantee, because I thread those jobs between my
countertops.
Besides, my immediate family has me booked till 2020.
That's my story.. and I'm sticking to it.
> That is one *heavy* table. The nice thing is, when the kids bump into it,
> my drink doesn't spill.
>
> Doesn't do too much for the kids though.
LOL - nice. Great mental image - kids slamming into the table, dropping
like sacks of potatoes, while your coffee on the table doesn't even
have ripples on the surface...
I went with the mass-for-stability tactic on the bed I recently made -
lots of solid white oak. Each of the side rails alone weighs about 30
pounds. That can take some serious bumps without so much as a squeak
(no more mental image fodder intended...)
Andy
On Dec 10, 10:11=A0am, Nova <[email protected]> wrote:
> DonkeyHody wrote:
> > My problem is that she, like most people, really have no concept of the
> > amount of time and effort that goes into producing something like that.
> > =A0I'm sure she would have been willing to pay a "reasonable" price for
> > such an item, but I'm not willing to part with them for a reasonable
> > sum. =A0A "reasonable" sum wouldn't pay the heating bill for my shop,
> > much less buy the wood or give me any wages at all for my time. =A0I kn=
ow
> > I'm overstating, but you know what I mean.
>
> > How do you folks handle these situations?I got a call yesterday where t=
he potential customer was interested in
> two three shelf barrister bookcases. =A0She expected to pay about $100
> each and wanted them by Christmas. =A0I told her they would be $1500 -
> $2000 each and might be ready by Christmas 2007. =A0She went away.
>
> --
> Jack Novak
> Buffalo, NY - USA
> [email protected]
Doncha just love these types who price their furniture at WalMart?
Actually, I doubt even WalMart's pressed paper stuff would sell that
low. Can you buy the barrister cazse mechanism for $100 for more than
two shelves?
"Don Fearn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> The second time one of my wife's friends coveted something I had made
> for her, I was ready, so I exchanged a cherry niddy-noddy for warm
> wool sox.
>
>
You traded wood working for sex with a shee....never mind! I gotta clean my
glasses!
PoorUB
'05 Ultra Classic
'06 MAMBM
Morris Dovey wrote:
> Robatoy (in [email protected])
> said:
>
> | NEVER a time guarantee, because I thread those jobs between my
> | countertops.
>
> One of my hard-to-learn lessons has been to never guarantee /both/
> price and schedule.
>
> --
> Morris Dovey
> DeSoto Solar
> DeSoto, Iowa USA
> http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
>
>
I can always guarantee price and schedule. Right up front I tell the
person that I don't know what the price will be but that I am slow and lazy.
Snaazzzzzzzz,
jo4hn
DonkeyHody wrote:
> Just the other night I called three people before I found the one who
> borrowed 4 furniture clamps six weeks ago. Just happened to be the
> husband of the lady who wants the tray. I've started hanging notes on
> the wall in the blank space where a tool is supposed to be so I can
> remember who borrowed it. I guess I'm going to have to start requiring
> a deposit or something. Being a nice guy sure has its pitfalls.
>
> DonkeyHody
> "Friends may come and go, but enemies accumulate." - Thomas Jones
After having to track down my tools far too often while working in a
machine shop I adopted a policy of requiring the borrower to leave
either their drivers license, their keys, a suitable cash deposit or me.
Bill
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Par wrote:
> Andy <[email protected]>:
>> I went with the mass-for-stability tactic on the bed I recently made -
>> lots of solid white oak. Each of the side rails alone weighs about 30
>> pounds. That can take some serious bumps without so much as a squeak
>> (no more mental image fodder intended...)
>
> Go for the techiques used by the vibration free instruments crowd: very
> heavy surface, on rubber pads (I've even seen a setup lifted by
> compressed air jets, but that might disturb your sleep). So, for a bed
> an 1 ton marble slab should work, laid down on top of umpteen rubber
> pads. Add normal bed parts on top. Don't forget to add felt pads
> underneath, or there might be some slight marking of soft wood floors.
>
> /Par
>
Marble slab resting on inner tubes floating in chilled mineral oil in a
building mounted on springs and shock absorbers anchored to a concrete
slab floating in a pond.
Just about then the train goes by, sounds the horn for the crossing and
you STILL can't sleep through the night!
;-)
Bill
--
I not only use all the brains that I have, but all that I can borrow.
Woodrow Wilson (1856 - 1924)
And twice a day, I still fall short.
Bill in Detroit (1952 - )
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Jim Northey wrote:
>
> What's harder to find the unobtanium wood or the NF virgins? :-)
> Jim
Without the wood, what use is the virgin?
Bill
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Thu, Dec 14, 2006, 12:44am [email protected] (Bill=A0in=A0Detroit) now
queryeth:
Without the wood, what use is the virgin?
You send the virgin, and I'll get back to you on that.
JOAT
Where does Batman buy gas for the Batmobile?
Sun, Dec 10, 2006, 5:43am (EST-3) [email protected] (DonkeyHody)
doth lament:
<snip> I know at least some of you can relate to my delimma . . . I
don't really enjoy production runs very much. The thrill is gone after
the prototype goes together. <snip> I had enough scraps and leftovers
from other projects to make 8 of them.
A week or so ago, one of our better friends stopped by and found me out
in the shop <snip>
You let peope in to your shop? First mistake.
Yeah, agree, the prototype stage is the most funnest. But have
found doning one part of a batch, then doing another part later, and so
on, helps a lot. Cut say ten pieces, do something you want to do then.
Next day something more on the batch, then someing you want to do. Next
day - and so on.
You let people in your shop?
You shoulda said you only had enough material for the eight first
off, that mighta stopped er in her tracks. Then if she went on, say you
don't know when you "can" get more material - not "will", emphasize the
can - 'cause it-s exotic "furrin" wood, and *E*X*P*E*N*S*I*V*E* -
emphasize that, and you don't even know when you'll have the funds to
spare for that type of furrin wood. If she persista, you can quote her
a price up the wazoo, with no time guarantee.
Or, when she oohed and ahed over the wood, you could have looked
over and said yeah, it's pricey as all Hell, and that was the last of
the little you were able to get.
It's like the old farmer. His neighbor asked to borrow his rope.
He told the neighbor he was using it to tie up his milk with. The
neighbor thought that over and said it didn't make any sense. The old
farmer said when you don't want to do something any excuse will do. If
you'da said something you'd probably be off the hook, now it sounds like
you'll be making at least one more somewhere along the road.
JOAT
I am, therefore I think.
Steve knight wrote:
> I called and they will make sure they are delivered
> Tuesday but I needed those items and now I have to wait till Tuesday
> to get them.
SFWIW, on more than one occasion, I've had UPS hold the shipment for my
pickup.
Sometimes it requires a little negotiation to get the package to a point
in the system where you can actually get your hands on it.
Lew
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>
>> In the case of woodworking most often it really is the case that if the
>> customer has to ask the price they cannot afford it.
>>
>>
>
> So... how else would they know the price? Even those who can afford
> things
> need to know how much to dish out.
I start off with trying to find out how much they expect to spend and work
my bid from there. I never, well almost never, give a price before
designing and getting the customers approval. If they are serious they
generally stay involved in the design process.
On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 15:11:01 GMT, Nova <[email protected]> wrote:
>I got a call yesterday where the potential customer was interested in
>two three shelf barrister bookcases. She expected to pay about $100
>each and wanted them by Christmas. I told her they would be $1500 -
>$2000 each and might be ready by Christmas 2007. She went away.
My mom used to do custom sewing. She quoted one lady a price and was
told "I don't understand, I thought it was supposed to be cheaper to
have homemade clothes?".
Some people just don't get it.
--
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
DonkeyHody (in [email protected])
said:
| How do you folks handle these situations?
Do the cost analysis.
Decide (by yourself or together with your spouse) on a reasonable
price for one of the trays.
Call the lady and let her know that if you'd known sooner how much she
liked the tray, you'd have found a way to build one more - just for
her - and offer to build one for her at the price you decided on on
some schedule that's reasonable for you (perhaps in time for a
birthday or gift next year).
Plan to build ten or a dozen extras...
(Methinks the lady really did recognize a pearl.)
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html
Rick M (in [email protected]) said:
| "Robatoy" wrote
|| I am still trying to think of ways to make some money off my
|| sink/cooktop cut-outs made from solid surface. A serving tray
|| might be one possibility. But, the stuff is somewhat heavy. (About
|| 5.33 pounds per sq-ft) That might be a bit heavy, no?
|
| A casserole carrier design that was passed along to me several
| years ago was made from a laminate sink cutout:
|
| Shape is roughly 10x14 inches, corners rounded to approximately 3
| inch radius. Mark the center and then draw circles with radii
| increasing 1" at a time. Then, divide the circles into 8 equal
| quadrants. Drill 3/8" holes at least 3/8" deep, no more than 3/4 of
| material thickness at every circle/quadrant intersection, keeping
| 1" margin to any edges.
|
| Cut 6 to 8 3/8" dowels approximately 4" long, bevel the edges.
| Install two cabinet pulls for handles. Round the edges with a 1/4"
| or 3/8" radius roundover bit.
|
| Next time ... the sloped side casserole tray-style carrier.
Hmm. If I were to rout out a 4" half-moon on the underside at the
center of each end I'd have a pair of handles; and If I added six of
Leon's clear non-slip polyurethane bumpers to the bottom, it'd be
guaranteed to not slip...
Sounds like a winner just made-to-order for a CNC router <eg>
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html
>My problem is that she, like most people, really have no concept of the
>amount of time and effort that goes into producing something like that.
> I'm sure she would have been willing to pay a "reasonable" price for
>such an item, but I'm not willing to part with them for a reasonable
>sum. A "reasonable" sum wouldn't pay the heating bill for my shop,
>much less buy the wood or give me any wages at all for my time. I know
>I'm overstating, but you know what I mean.
>
I've never found a way to say it nice enough to get people to
understand without hurting feelings or getting into arguments.
For most relatives there is a set price and a requirement for sweat
equity or a labor swap or buy a particular tool. And don't come in
here with a cheap chunk of iron and believe that I owe you for the
rest of my life.. For a certain relative, I have a standing SOS
should he become more stupider that normal and show up around here..
For close family members, good friends and those relatives whose
company I truely like, there is no charge although on occasion they
were required to pay for certain materials. This group is always # 1
on the list.
For a former supervisor who wanted a fancy chest, I went to an
expensive place and saw their prices, added 10% and gave him a quote.
Just because your my supervisor, don't believe that I need to kiss
ass.
Just about everyone else is merely an aquaintance and I carefully tell
them that I'm backed up with other projects on the list or I quote
them a relatively fair price.
I find that I seem to estimate low so the formula gets tweaked a lot.
When I do price out a piece, I estimate the material + 10% (it costs
to go find it and get it home). Figure out how many hours it should
take to complete reguardless of how much time it actually takes.
Material and labor X 2 should cover heat and power, wear and tear on
tools and supplies ( sandpaper and finishes aint free). Final price
depends on the project and the person who asks for it. This isn't a
perfect way to do pricing, but it seems to work out.
pete
Sun, Dec 10, 2006, 11:03pm (EST+5) [email protected] doth estimate:
<snip> I estimate the material + 10% (it costs to go find it and get it
home). <sni>
I never figure in transportation costs, because I always combine
errends when I get materials; ever figure in wear and tear on the tools,
etc., either, because I'd be doing it regardless - but if I was doing it
for a living I would.
JOAT
I am, therefore I think.
Robatoy (in [email protected])
said:
| NEVER a time guarantee, because I thread those jobs between my
| countertops.
One of my hard-to-learn lessons has been to never guarantee /both/
price and schedule.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
Charlie Self (in [email protected])
said:
| Doncha just love these types who price their furniture at WalMart?
| Actually, I doubt even WalMart's pressed paper stuff would sell that
| low. Can you buy the barrister cazse mechanism for $100 for more
| than two shelves?
Pull out your VanDyke's catalog and look on page 77. They list the
equalizer hardware for US$20 per shelf.
They also offer case kits in 10", 12", and 14" heights, along with
pigeon hole, secretary, and matching pull-out drawer units - for
prices ranging between $40 and $100.
I've no idea whether this stuff is any good; but it's an interesting
starting point.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 23:07:21 GMT, Nova <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Yeah, custom designed, hand made hardwood furniture at below K-Mart
>prices. What are they smokin'?
Yaaabbut!
You don't have to pay for a factory, a big store, trucking, a greeter
at the door... <G>
The same morons don't understand the difference between "hand made"
(nice quality) and "home made" (cobbled), used in the generally
accepted context in woodworking. The best stuff always comes from
large factories!
Before I get flamed, "home made" is GREAT in respect to cookies and
spaghetti sauce!
Sun, Dec 10, 2006, 11:22pm (EST+5) [email protected]
(B=A0A=A0R=A0R=A0Y) doth claimeth:
<snip> The same morons don't understand the difference between "hand
made" (nice quality) and "home made" (cobbled), used in the generally
accepted context in woodworking. The best stuff always comes from large
factories!
Before I get flamed, "home made" is GREAT in respect to cookies and
spaghetti sauce!
Gee, that's strange. I've seen stuff labeled "hand made" that was
more crap than "nice quality". And have seen stuff the builder called
"homemade" that was like a piece of art; about the same with "cobbled"
stuff. Guess you had to be there.
I've tasted homemade cookies I wouldn't feed to a hog, and have
never tasted a homemade spaghetti sauce I enjoyed. Guess you had to be
there.
JOAT
I am, therefore I think.
"J T" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
I've tasted homemade cookies I wouldn't feed to a hog, and have
never tasted a homemade spaghetti sauce I enjoyed. Guess you had to be
there.
Knew a guy who refused to eat at any restaurant advertising "home cooking"
because, he said, his mother had been a horrible cook.
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "DonkeyHody" <[email protected]> wrote in message >
>> A "reasonable" sum wouldn't pay the heating bill for my shop,
>> much less buy the wood or give me any wages at all for my time. I know
>> I'm overstating, but you know what I mean.
>>
>> How do you folks handle these situations?
>
> I've had similar situations happen with my leatherwork. I only make things
> as gifts for friends and I'm always honest up front when someone wants to
> pay me to make something for them. When I explain to them that something
> took me 30 hours to make and even if I charged them the low amount of $10
> per hour, it would mean they'd have to pay me $300, the request to make
> something for them always fades after that.
>
>
In the case of woodworking most often it really is the case that if the
customer has to ask the price they cannot afford it.
DonkeyHody wrote:
> My problem is that she, like most people, really have no concept of the
> amount of time and effort that goes into producing something like that.
> I'm sure she would have been willing to pay a "reasonable" price for
> such an item, but I'm not willing to part with them for a reasonable
> sum. A "reasonable" sum wouldn't pay the heating bill for my shop,
> much less buy the wood or give me any wages at all for my time. I know
> I'm overstating, but you know what I mean.
>
> How do you folks handle these situations?
I got a call yesterday where the potential customer was interested in
two three shelf barrister bookcases. She expected to pay about $100
each and wanted them by Christmas. I told her they would be $1500 -
$2000 each and might be ready by Christmas 2007. She went away.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
"Robatoy" wrote
> I am still trying to think of ways to make some money off my
> sink/cooktop cut-outs made from solid surface. A serving tray might be
> one possibility. But, the stuff is somewhat heavy. (About 5.33 pounds
> per sq-ft)
> That might be a bit heavy, no?
Rob,
A casserole carrier design that was passed along to me several years ago was
made from a laminate sink cutout:
Shape is roughly 10x14 inches, corners rounded to approximately 3 inch
radius. Mark the center and then draw circles with radii increasing 1" at a
time. Then, divide the circles into 8 equal quadrants. Drill 3/8" holes at
least 3/8" deep, no more than 3/4 of material thickness at every
circle/quadrant intersection, keeping 1" margin to any edges.
Cut 6 to 8 3/8" dowels approximately 4" long, bevel the edges. Install two
cabinet pulls for handles. Round the edges with a 1/4" or 3/8" radius
roundover bit.
This little operation took about an hour from taking a painted piece of pine
board down with the sander to wiping on the finish coat (no, it wasn't poly
TYVM) ... an easy hour in the shop at the end of the work day.
In use, the casserole dish is placed on the board, pegs are used to restrain
the dish gently (don't bother hammering the pegs in ... you lose points
somehow), and thus one is able to transport a hot out-of-the-oven dish to
that communal meal without worrying about the dish sliding around the trunk
so easily.
I don't have any photos, though I do have the template I tried using (it was
much faster to draw the circles, drill the holes and then sand the lines off
than it was to use a template and draw the hole locations) if you need a
visual. Never got to keep any of them, as they were made for the church's
holiday market ... those things sold FAST. Good thing they were all made
from scrap wood.
The handles were held on with countersunk hardware from below ... not
trusting wood screws for something like this.
You might find reducing the stock thickness will reduce the weight
sufficiently to make this work.
Next time ... the sloped side casserole tray-style carrier.
Regards,
Rick
"Jim Northey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Xdmfh.462290$1T2.192256@pd7urf2no...
>
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
>> Yup.. that's how I pretty much deal with that these days. "Unobtainum"
>> wood... hand cultivated by Newfoundland virgins.....extremely hard to
>> find. (ducking)
>> NEVER a time guarantee, because I thread those jobs between my
>> countertops.
>> Besides, my immediate family has me booked till 2020.
>>
>> That's my story.. and I'm sticking to it.
>>
>
> What's harder to find the unobtanium wood or the NF virgins? :-)
Newfie virgins? C'mon, some ten-year-olds can run faster than their
uncles....
B A R R Y wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 15:11:01 GMT, Nova <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>>I got a call yesterday where the potential customer was interested in
>>two three shelf barrister bookcases.
>
>
> Ahhhh.... The I'll call the local guy because I don't want to pay
> Ikea's high prices call... <G>
>
> I get those on occasion. They're funny, in a way...
Yeah, custom designed, hand made hardwood furniture at below K-Mart
prices. What are they smokin'?
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
"DonkeyHody" wrote in message
> How do you folks handle these situations?
By invoking the #1, A1, most important rule in my shop (which I usually
mention the second I see where the conversation is headed):
NO new projects are started in this shop until the current project is
finished!
We then discuss where on "The List" this new request may fall (generally
somewhere after my own mother's, who is far down on said list).
That said, just recently someone sent a check, completely out of the blue,
for $1K for "material" ... that check went in the bank and their project
added to "the list", but moved up a bit in priority ... sorry, Mom! ;)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/29/06
Charlie Self wrote:
> Doncha just love these types who price their furniture at WalMart?
> Actually, I doubt even WalMart's pressed paper stuff would sell that
> low. Can you buy the barrister cazse mechanism for $100 for more than
> two shelves?
As is said about buying a new Hinckley Yacht.
"If you have to ask, you can't afford.
Lew
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Yup.. that's how I pretty much deal with that these days. "Unobtainum"
> wood... hand cultivated by Newfoundland virgins.....extremely hard to
> find. (ducking)
> NEVER a time guarantee, because I thread those jobs between my
> countertops.
> Besides, my immediate family has me booked till 2020.
>
> That's my story.. and I'm sticking to it.
>
What's harder to find the unobtanium wood or the NF virgins? :-)
Jim
"DonkeyHody" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
<snip>
> Just the other night I called three people before I found the one who
> borrowed 4 furniture clamps six weeks ago. Just happened to be the
> husband of the lady who wants the tray. I've started hanging notes on
> the wall in the blank space where a tool is supposed to be so I can
> remember who borrowed it. I guess I'm going to have to start requiring
> a deposit or something. Being a nice guy sure has its pitfalls.
>
I love my friends, and do a lot for them, but I seldom will loan tools. On
occasion, I have given them tools I no longer needed, but would do them
well in their work. But that's different.
Being a nice guy is very important. Having your clamps means you can do
for friends and customers what you promised.
I'll glue a chair happily. In my shop, with my tools.
Patriarch
"Don Fearn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I think it was "DonkeyHody" <[email protected]> who stated:
>
>>"Cast not thy pearls before the swine, lest they trample them underfoot
>>and turn to gore thee."
> [snip happens]
>>My problem is that she, like most people, really have no concept of the
>>amount of time and effort that goes into producing something like that.
>> I'm sure she would have been willing to pay a "reasonable" price for
>>such an item, but I'm not willing to part with them for a reasonable
>>sum. A "reasonable" sum wouldn't pay the heating bill for my shop,
>>much less buy the wood or give me any wages at all for my time. I know
>>I'm overstating, but you know what I mean.
>>
>>How do you folks handle these situations?
>
> I've had similar situations twice. I bartered.
>
> The first time, I had made a skein winder that winds the yarn when it
> comes off my wife's spinning wheel and one of her spinning friends
> wanted one JUST like it. I had made it from leftovers from a cherry
> bed I had made, and I had enough wood and some time, so I said,
> tentatively, that I could, but I had NO idea how much to charge.
>
> As we talked, it sounded like the amount of time for the skein winder
> would be about the same amount of time she takes to spin and knit a
> shawl, and I had coveted my wife's wool shawl, so in exchange for the
> cherry winder I made for her, I got a warm gray wool shawl, which I'm
> wearing as I type (it's chilly down here where the computer is this
> time of year).
>
> The second time one of my wife's friends coveted something I had made
> for her, I was ready, so I exchanged a cherry niddy-noddy for warm
> wool sox.
>
> I don't know if I'll do anything like that again. I wouldn't even
> consider making anything for sale; woodworking is a hobby to relieve
> stress and once in a while make something that pleases me because it's
> unique and maybe special . . . .
>
> -Don
I made some basket trees once for a friend of my wife's. Basically, a
broomstick with an eye hook on top, hanging down with dowels every foot or
so at angles so that it can be hung from the ceiling, and then baskets put
on each dowel.
The woman insisted on paying me. I bought enough materials for six. The
lady wanted two, my wife wanted two, and I figured someone else would want a
couple. I was right.
If I was to charge someone for my time, I would have to charge as much as
those high priced catalogs where she saw the item. Finally, she said she
would cook dinner for my wife and I one night. She did, and it wasn't
spaghetti mac. I felt like I got the best of the deal.
My wife ended up swapping the extra two for something or other.
Things exchanged among friends for barter can't be converted to money. So
long that each person thinks it's fair and it doesn't end up that you're
doing work every week on stuff you'd rather not fool with. I do know that
when I offer to do work for barter, the other person will trade more than I
would have asked for if I were the one to set the parameters on the deal.
Just my experiences.
Steve
I had a package due yesterday and I was thinking it was FedEx and they
did not show. Well today I had another one and the first one I found
was going UPS. Well UPS does not show and I check the status of the
package and I see that the business was closed because of the holiday.
But that's bull because the business (me was open all day and the roll
up door was wide open) they did not leave the usual we missed you tag
or anything. So one package they did not attempt to deliver for two
days and the second they skipped today.
So what they really did was choose not to even try to deliver the
package at all. I called and they will make sure they are delivered
Tuesday but I needed those items and now I have to wait till Tuesday
to get them.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> In the case of woodworking most often it really is the case that if the
> customer has to ask the price they cannot afford it.
>
>
So... how else would they know the price? Even those who can afford things
need to know how much to dish out.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"DonkeyHody" <[email protected]> wrote in message >
> A "reasonable" sum wouldn't pay the heating bill for my shop,
> much less buy the wood or give me any wages at all for my time. I know
> I'm overstating, but you know what I mean.
>
> How do you folks handle these situations?
I've had similar situations happen with my leatherwork. I only make things
as gifts for friends and I'm always honest up front when someone wants to
pay me to make something for them. When I explain to them that something
took me 30 hours to make and even if I charged them the low amount of $10
per hour, it would mean they'd have to pay me $300, the request to make
something for them always fades after that.
O
>SFWIW, on more than one occasion, I've had UPS hold the shipment for my
>pickup.
>
>Sometimes it requires a little negotiation to get the package to a point
>in the system where you can actually get your hands on it.
getting to UPS is a long ways away here in Portland. not practical at
all for me. but it was the bull about attempting the delivery that got
me.
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> On Dec 10, 8:43 am, "DonkeyHody" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Cast not thy pearls before the swine, lest they trample them underfoot
>> and turn to gore thee."
>>
>> I know at least some of you can relate to my delimma . . .
>
> Ohhhh yeah... BTDT.
>
> What would be a nice size for a tray like that?
> I am still trying to think of ways to make some money off my
> sink/cooktop cut-outs made from solid surface. A serving tray might be
> one possibility. But, the stuff is somewhat heavy. (About 5.33 pounds
> per sq-ft)
> That might be a bit heavy, no?
>
> r
>
My father made a side table from a similar sink cutout.
The cutout was granite.
That is one *heavy* table. The nice thing is, when the kids bump into it,
my drink doesn't spill.
Doesn't do too much for the kids though.
jc
> My problem is that she, like most people, really have no concept of the
> amount of time and effort that goes into producing something like that.
> I'm sure she would have been willing to pay a "reasonable" price for
> such an item, but I'm not willing to part with them for a reasonable
> sum. A "reasonable" sum wouldn't pay the heating bill for my shop,
> much less buy the wood or give me any wages at all for my time. I know
> I'm overstating, but you know what I mean.
>
> How do you folks handle these situations?
That depends on you goal. As other's have suggested, it's pretty easy to
make them go away and stop asking. But, if you want them to understand
"amount of time and effort that goes into producing something like that"
(without the use of sarcasm), that is a tougher nut to crack.
Personally, I'd really like the answer too.
-Steve
On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 05:43:10 -0800, DonkeyHody wrote:
> "Cast not thy pearls before the swine, lest they trample them underfoot
> and turn to gore thee."
>
> I know at least some of you can relate to my delimma . . .
> I don't really enjoy production runs very much. The thrill is gone
> after the prototype goes together. But for the first time in a long
> time, I agreed to build a bunch of serving trays for us to give for
> Christmas presents. Now these are nothing particularly fancy, just an
> open box with the sides flared at 10 degrees, arched ends with cutouts
> for the handles, dovetail joints at the corners, and a laminated bottom
> with a field of lacewood between narrow strips of walnut and mahogony.
> I had enough scraps and leftovers from other projects to make 8 of
> them.
>
> A week or so ago, one of our better friends stopped by and found me out
> in the shop with my partially completed trays stacked to a pretty
> impressive height. Of course she wanted to see what I was making so I
> showed her one. She was taken with the beauty of the grain in the
> lacewood and went on and on about how beautiful it was. Now we have
> never exchanged Christmas presents with this couple even though they
> are pretty good friends, but I knew she wanted one. Problem is, all
> the ones I'm building are already designated for others.
>
> Over the next week, two other people told me she had told them about
> the beautiful trays I was building. Then, last night she called me to
> ask if she can buy one of my trays to give to her mother for Christmas.
> I told her all of the trays were spoken for, and I don't have time to
> build her one before Christmas. I still have to scramble so the finish
> on these will be dry on time.
>
> My problem is that she, like most people, really have no concept of the
> amount of time and effort that goes into producing something like that.
> I'm sure she would have been willing to pay a "reasonable" price for
> such an item, but I'm not willing to part with them for a reasonable
> sum. A "reasonable" sum wouldn't pay the heating bill for my shop,
> much less buy the wood or give me any wages at all for my time. I know
> I'm overstating, but you know what I mean.
>
> How do you folks handle these situations?
Tell them that this year's run is already spoken for but you'll be happy
to put them in the queue for next year at x dollars a pop. If you don't
want to do the work then put "x" at a ludicrous level. If they pay it
then be sure to sign them.
And in the future when you do these things, make some extras. If your
friends and family know that so and so paid $100 or 1000 or $10000 or
whatever for one your handiworks then they may appreciate it all the more.
> DonkeyHody
> "We are all ignorant, just about different things." - Will Rogers
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 23:30:20 -0800, Steve knight wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Dec 2006 00:27:36 -0600, [email protected] ()
>
>>
>>Steve, I know it is often difficult to get a vendor to use a different
>>shipper than the one they normally do. As a long time USPS employee, I
>>hope that you ship your own products by US Mail!
>
> usualy it has not been an issue. but it is like they just choose not
> to deliver it and claimed they attempted it. no little tag was left so
> I know they did not try.
> we had a bad weather scare (here in portland school as been canceled
> with a future weather report that never happened) so UPS sent the
> loaders home. so when the bad weatehr did not happen the drivers had
> to load their own trucks. so when the package did not make it I check
> and the claim was a bad address. but the address was right and I had
> gotten other packages from the same company.
More likely they had a new driver who tried to deliver it to the wrong
address. I've had that happen more than once, with both UPS and FedEx.
And one time I sent a birthday card to my GF, at the same address where
she had been living since she was a little kid, which Amazon found the
same day with no trouble, that came back from the Postal Service marked
"address unknown".
You do enough shipping or receiving and you come to realize that some
packages are going to go astray.
> so if UPS gets behind do they now make up a lie and not deliver the
> package? thats what it seems like.
> usualy I have not had much of any issues with UPS. but this seems
> like they just chose not to even try.
> I ship pretty much all my planes priority mail (G) atleast the post
> office delivers 6 days a week.
> though I have had mail carriers too lazy to come up for a certified
> letter.
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 15:11:01 GMT, Nova <[email protected]> wrote:
>I got a call yesterday where the potential customer was interested in
>two three shelf barrister bookcases.
Ahhhh.... The I'll call the local guy because I don't want to pay
Ikea's high prices call... <G>
I get those on occasion. They're funny, in a way...
On Sat, 23 Dec 2006 00:27:36 -0600, [email protected] ()
>
>Steve, I know it is often difficult to get a vendor to use a different
>shipper than the one they normally do. As a long time USPS employee, I
>hope that you ship your own products by US Mail!
usualy it has not been an issue. but it is like they just choose not
to deliver it and claimed they attempted it. no little tag was left so
I know they did not try.
we had a bad weather scare (here in portland school as been canceled
with a future weather report that never happened) so UPS sent the
loaders home. so when the bad weatehr did not happen the drivers had
to load their own trucks. so when the package did not make it I check
and the claim was a bad address. but the address was right and I had
gotten other packages from the same company.
so if UPS gets behind do they now make up a lie and not deliver the
package? thats what it seems like.
usualy I have not had much of any issues with UPS. but this seems
like they just chose not to even try.
I ship pretty much all my planes priority mail (G) atleast the post
office delivers 6 days a week.
though I have had mail carriers too lazy to come up for a certified
letter.
I just tell them I spend so much time here learning how to adjust my
equipment and thin finish, that I really don't have time to waste in the
shop.
"DonkeyHody" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Cast not thy pearls before the swine, lest they trample them underfoot
> and turn to gore thee."
>
> I know at least some of you can relate to my delimma . . .
> I don't really enjoy production runs very much. The thrill is gone
> after the prototype goes together. But for the first time in a long
> time, I agreed to build a bunch of serving trays for us to give for
> Christmas presents. Now these are nothing particularly fancy, just an
> open box with the sides flared at 10 degrees, arched ends with cutouts
> for the handles, dovetail joints at the corners, and a laminated bottom
> with a field of lacewood between narrow strips of walnut and mahogony.
> I had enough scraps and leftovers from other projects to make 8 of
> them.
>
> A week or so ago, one of our better friends stopped by and found me out
> in the shop with my partially completed trays stacked to a pretty
> impressive height. Of course she wanted to see what I was making so I
> showed her one. She was taken with the beauty of the grain in the
> lacewood and went on and on about how beautiful it was. Now we have
> never exchanged Christmas presents with this couple even though they
> are pretty good friends, but I knew she wanted one. Problem is, all
> the ones I'm building are already designated for others.
>
> Over the next week, two other people told me she had told them about
> the beautiful trays I was building. Then, last night she called me to
> ask if she can buy one of my trays to give to her mother for Christmas.
> I told her all of the trays were spoken for, and I don't have time to
> build her one before Christmas. I still have to scramble so the finish
> on these will be dry on time.
>
> My problem is that she, like most people, really have no concept of the
> amount of time and effort that goes into producing something like that.
> I'm sure she would have been willing to pay a "reasonable" price for
> such an item, but I'm not willing to part with them for a reasonable
> sum. A "reasonable" sum wouldn't pay the heating bill for my shop,
> much less buy the wood or give me any wages at all for my time. I know
> I'm overstating, but you know what I mean.
>
> How do you folks handle these situations?
>
> DonkeyHody
> "We are all ignorant, just about different things." - Will Rogers
>
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B A R R Y wrote:
> Yaaabbut!
>
> You don't have to pay for a factory, a big store, trucking, a greeter
> at the door... <G>
I really got a chuckle out of the "$100 each" though. I paid more than
that for the tempered glass in the doors of the last one I made.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
"DonkeyHody" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Snip
> How do you folks handle these situations?
>
> DonkeyHody
> "We are all ignorant, just about different things." - Will Rogers
Explain that the reason that she is impressed by your work is that you have
a method that works. Deviation from that method delivers less desirable
results. Give her a picture of what she has seen so that she can show her
mother what her late Christmas present is going to be and charge what the
piece is worth.
"Steve knight" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> O
>
>>SFWIW, on more than one occasion, I've had UPS hold the shipment for my
>>pickup.
>>
>>Sometimes it requires a little negotiation to get the package to a point
>>in the system where you can actually get your hands on it.
>
> getting to UPS is a long ways away here in Portland. not practical at
> all for me. but it was the bull about attempting the delivery that got
> me.
Holiday season, lots of sub drivers and temps, some of whom don't know the
routes. Though only we who comment here are perfect, one of them,
vulnerable to error, might have attempted delivery elsewhere, left the
little tag and all.
I suppose inventory control is the best answer, especially when shipping
crunches happen regularly this time of year.
Fortunately I never had to stretch the truth to mollify an irate customer,
hope you don't ever have to either.
On 10 Dec 2006 05:43:10 -0800, "DonkeyHody" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>"Cast not thy pearls before the swine, lest they trample them underfoot
>and turn to gore thee."
>
>
>How do you folks handle these situations?
>
>DonkeyHody
>"We are all ignorant, just about different things." - Will Rogers
Bindlestiff:
Things were going along just fine until Bindlestiff showed up.
Today was my first day back in the shop since December and what a nice
day it was, weather wise. Fifty-some degrees and sunny - a perfect
day to begin cleaning up the mess I'd left from the last job I did.
In the normal course of events I clean up the shop just after
finishing a project - empty the dust collector - re-hang the clamps -
put away the odd tools that were left out in the hurly burly of
completing an installation. This time I'd gotten bronchitis towards
the end of the job and it had hung on for the better part of two
months - so the shop looked like hell.
I was well on my way to having things squared away and was fitting a
freshly cleaned Leuco finish blade ($180.00 in 1987 money) back onto
the Unisaw when I was startled by a loud banging on the shop door.
Now, my shop door is really a pair of fifteen light French doors and
any damned fool coulda seen that my back was turned and that I was
bent over the tablesaw, concentrated like.
That made no nevermind to Bindlestiff, who pummeled the doors hard
enough to rattle the glass close on to breaking and rattling me to the
degree that I dropped the Leuco ($180.00 in 1987 money) into the
innards of the Unisaw - and it didn't sound like it had a real easy
trip to the bottom, neither.
Bindlestiff pretty much passes the duck test. He looks like a duck.
He walks like a duck. And he sounds like a duck. But he's about six
foot five and weighs better than an eighth of a ton - and he has a
house down the road from me a bit, so I figger he ain't really a duck.
What he is, is a man who constantly tests the forbearance of his
fellow man - what we here in the Southeast corner of Penssyltucky
call, "A real pain in the ass."
I calmed myself for a bit by taking a few of those deep cleansing
breaths that I had learned about in the Lamaz classes I'd taken with
my wife, in preparation for the birth of my oldest child, although I'm
not sure why I did that, as it hadn't worked for my wife when it came
right down to it. When it came right down to it, she turned purple,
dug her nails into my hand and cussed me and the doctor both, with
language strong enough to burn the paint off the delivery room walls.
Hoping for a better result, and somewhat addled by the deep breaths, I
turned to face Bindlestiff.
He stood on the other side of the French doors, that I keep locked, so
that I won't be startled by intruders ( ! ), with a big grin on his
ducklike face.
I've always made it a policy to be nice to the neighbors, even the
ones that I don't care for much, because I was running a sub-rosa
cabinetmaking shop behind my house, in a residential area - and I
didn't want anybody to rat me out to the township. But I was retired
from professional cabinetmaking now and thought to give Bindlestiff a
piece of my mind.
It was only the fear of being physically accosted by a six foot five,
better than an eighth ton duck that made me open the doors quietly and
say,
"Hello, Bindlestiff."
"I could see from the road that you was working in here. Can you cut
the tongue offa this piece of flooring for me", quacks Bindlestiff.
He held out a gnarly chunk of prefinished oak flooring, with a
battered tongue and about a dozen nail holes along its twelve-inch
length.
"I tried to beat it in to make it fit but it wouldn't lay down and I
don't have no more pieces left."
"Sure", says I, so used to keeping peace with the neighbors that I did
not express my inner thought of just where this mangled piece of
flooring should rightly go.
I went to the tablesaw to retrieve the Leuco ($180.00 in 1987 money).
"Boy, you sure did jump when I knocked on your door."
"Yeah, too much coffee, I guess.", says I, while thinking about what
kind of substances Mother Bindlestiff must have ingested during
Bindlestiff's gestation period to produce such an awkward lump of
flesh.
I retrieved the Leuco from the bowels of the Unisaw cabinet and set
about looking it over very carefully.
Listen here, I had interviewed three different saw sharpeners before
selecting one to sharpen that blade. It has a funny tooth
configuration, with a hollowed tooth that comes to real sharp points
on the outside edges - and it needs someone who won't mangle it
according to the usual practice of sharpening shops. The guy I picked
had kept the blade in primo condition for over fifteen years, without
wasting any carbide.
It was my best blade for fine crosscut work.
As to why I mounted it with the intent of ripping the tongue off of
the flooring piece, I couldn't tell you. I guess I just wanted to get
Bindlestiff out of my shop as quickly as possible.
I didn't see any damage to the blade and set about to fire up the
Unisaw.
"I pulled all the nails out real good." Says Bindlestiff, and, taking
him at his word, and not seeing any evidence of metal in the holes, I
turned on the saw.
I've a long-standing habit of staying out of the line of fire when
turning on the tablesaw. Over the years I've had a few blades spit
teeth at me when the saw started up and I no longer even think about
standing where they can get me.
Bindlestiff, not being particularly mechanical, as evidenced by his
violated flooring board, had not learned any protective strategies in
this regard - and he stood right in line with the Leuco when she
started up. I'd told him to stand off to the side but Bindlestiff
ain't much of a listener.
I got about four inches into the cut when all hell broke loose.
The shrapnel caught Bindlestiff right in the middle of his, "I'd
Rather Be Bowling" tee shirt and described a straight line through the
dancing bowling pin graphic, from just below his neck to just above
his belt.
Bindlestiff emitted a huge quack and had the most perfect look of
shock and stupefaction on his face. Three small blood blossoms
overtook the washed out colors of the "IRBB" tee shirt.
A fourth tooth had shattered the fluorescent tube in the overhead
light and shards of thin glass, along with a powdery substance wafted
down onto Bindlestiff's head.
The carbide didn't go in too deep. Bindlestiff picked the pieces out
with his fingers. They were shaking pretty good.
I'd shut the saw down by reflex and once I saw that Bindlestiff wasn't
mortally wounded, I picked up the piece of oak flooring.
The evidence was clear. There was a shiny piece of cut off flooring
nail winking out from the board's edge.
"I had to twist one of them nail heads off." Says Bindlestiff, while
fingering a puckered spot on his vast belly - that wasn't really
bleeding much at all.
Well, old Bindlestiff wasn't hurt much. He had a few dents in his gut
and some glass that we had to blow out of his hair with the air
compressor.
He left the shop, with a new respect for the truth about hidden nails
and a promise to pay for the Leuco ($180.00 in 1987 money).
I watched him walk down the road and thought about how getting a set
of shades for the French doors might not be such a bad idea.
Regards,
Tom Watson
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
George Max wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 07:58:04 -0500, "Upscale" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Par" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> into the recipients urethra and creative uses of rodents, and the JWs
> >> left hurridly.
> >
> >I've got it easier than that. As soon as they see that I'm in a wheelchair,
> >they apologise for knocking on the wrong door. Up until the first time that
> >happened, I never realized how prejudicial they are.
> >
> >
>
> The JW care about such things? So much for their Christian values.
JW's are NOT Christians. Not even close.
> >| Being a Mormon could be kinda fun if you get to have multiple wives.
> >| ;)
> >
> >Someone once told me that the Chinese ideograph for "trouble" is two
> >women under one roof.
>
> I've lived long enough to understand that the path to happiness
> involves the fewest number of possible women.
>
The Oak Ridge Boys used to sing a song:
Tryin' to love two women
Is like a ball and chain
Sometimes the pleasure
Ain't worth the strain
Its a long old grind
And it tires yo' mind
Tryin' to please two women
You can't please yourself
The best is only half-good
A man can't stock two shelves
It's a long old grind
And it tires yo' mind
DonkeyHody
Who celebrates 20 years together this year
J T wrote:
> Mon, Dec 11, 2006, 9:04pm [email protected] (Tom Watson) doth
> lament:
> Bindlestiff: <snip of a sad tale>
> [more snippage]
>
> Jehovah's Witnesses. LOL I politely told them to get lost. It's
> always fun, when you're in the right mood, with nothing better to do, to
> bring out a chair, and sit and listen to them. NOT invite them in, not
> bring out chairs for them, just sit and listen to them. For some reason
> they never visit me anymore. LMAO
>
>
>
> JOAT
> I am, therefore I think.
>
Once upon a time, I owned a Fiat. One of Italy's finest [fill in the
blank]. One cold, misty, and altogether miserable day, I was under the
car trying to fix something or other. The wrench slipped off the bolt
and I crunched a knuckle or two on some unforgiving piece of steel. Now
I am rubbing dirt and grease into my wounds to staunch the bleeding
while my mouth is expressing my dismay in some of my finest, most
obscene curses of the car, the day and my bad luck. Some motion caught
my eye and I turned to the side to see two pairs of nicely shined shoes
and the bottoms of well pressed trousers. I rolled out from under the
car to snarl at two JWs with eyes like saucers and mouths agape. One
finally found his voice long enough to apologize for their bad timing.
I said something like "no shit, Little Beaver" and they hurried off.
Made the day a little better.
no more Fiats,
jo4hn
Wed, Dec 13, 2006, 2:18pm (EST-3) [email protected] (jo4hn) doth
sayeth:
Once upon a time, I owned a Fiat. One of Italy's finest [fill in the
blank]. One cold, misty, and altogether miserable day, <snip>
Oh yes, those cold days make it hurt just that much worse. Been
thee, done that.
Print out a few of these, for next time.
http://www.dannyhaszard.com/bendover.jpg
JOAT
Where does Batman buy gas for the Batmobile?
J T wrote:
> Jehovah's Witnesses. LOL I politely told them to get lost. It's
> always fun, when you're in the right mood, with nothing better to do, to
> bring out a chair, and sit and listen to them. NOT invite them in, not
> bring out chairs for them, just sit and listen to them. For some reason
> they never visit me anymore. LMAO
You don't make a 'cause and effect' connection between "I politely told
them to get lost." and "For some reason they never visit me anymore."?
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Robatoy wrote:
The JW care about such things? So much for their Christian values.
>
> JW's are NOT Christians. Not even close.
Hmm ... THIS ought to be interesting.
Upon what fact(s) would you base that conclusion?
Bill
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Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>
>>Once upon a time, I owned a Fiat. One of Italy's finest [fill in the
>>blank]. One cold, misty, and altogether miserable day, I was under the
>>car trying to fix something or other. The wrench slipped off the bolt
>>and I crunched a knuckle or two on some unforgiving piece of steel. Now
>>I am rubbing dirt and grease into my wounds to staunch the bleeding
>>while my mouth is expressing my dismay in some of my finest, most
>>obscene curses of the car, the day and my bad luck. Some motion caught
>>my eye and I turned to the side to see two pairs of nicely shined shoes
>>and the bottoms of well pressed trousers. I rolled out from under the
>>car to snarl at two JWs with eyes like saucers and mouths agape. One
>>finally found his voice long enough to apologize for their bad timing.
>>I said something like "no shit, Little Beaver" and they hurried off.
>>Made the day a little better.
>> no more Fiats,
>> jo4hn
>>
>
> Boy, that brings back a few memories. I used to own a Fiat X-1/9.
> Beautiful car, loads of fun to drive, but boy, oh boy, there were some
> elements of *dumb* design there.
>
> I agree, no more Fiats. FIAT = Fix It Again Today. Fix It Again
> Tomorrow.
>
> Which one did you have?
124 Sport Coupe. Absolutely the best drive I ever had. You want peace,
quiet, reliability? Buy a Toyota. I invested in a shop manual. Stupid
things would break: the valve for the heater leaked coolant on the
passenger side floor, the gas tank filler hose would sporadically spring
a leak, the wiper gear broke, I could clean the jets in the WEBER carb
in about 15 minutes, etc. I got about 50k miles on it before it started
using more oil than gas. Sold it to two brothers who wanted to know if
the tranny was in good shape. Jeeeaaapers.
On the good side, it had a twin OHC engine that was redlined at 8k
(IIRC). Four wheel disk brakes, 5 speed tranny, honest to God bucket
seats. If only it could have held together for a few years. Sigh.
twitch,
jo4hn
Doug Miller wrote:
> Ahh, yes, the good old JWs. They usually don't stick around long after we tell
> them we're Roman Catholic. At our previous house, the crucifix (hand-carved by
> my FIL, by the way -- obligatory woodworking content) hanging on the living
> room wall was clearly visible from the front door. Their visits were typically
> very, very short.
>
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6184477.stm
--
If Jesus Christ were to come today, people would not even crucify him.
They would ask him to dinner, and hear what he had to say, and make fun
of it.
Thomas Carlyle (1795 - 1881)
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Upscale wrote:
> "Par" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> into the recipients urethra and creative uses of rodents, and the JWs
>> left hurridly.
>
> I've got it easier than that. As soon as they see that I'm in a wheelchair,
> they apologise for knocking on the wrong door. Up until the first time that
> happened, I never realized how prejudicial they are.
So ...how many times has that happened?
And why did you assume that they were prejudiced?
Bill
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George Max wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 07:58:04 -0500, "Upscale" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> "Par" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> into the recipients urethra and creative uses of rodents, and the JWs
>>> left hurridly.
>> I've got it easier than that. As soon as they see that I'm in a wheelchair,
>> they apologise for knocking on the wrong door. Up until the first time that
>> happened, I never realized how prejudicial they are.
>>
>>
>
> The JW care about such things? So much for their Christian values.
George, you would pass judgment on over 6 million people on the
testimony of one man whom you've likely never met and most likely never
will?
Bill
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Par wrote:
> Aren't they one of the sects that belive that physical problems stems
> from sins, and to be wheelchairbound...
>
> /Par
>
No. I think you are referring to the Pastafarians.
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"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
snip
> The one time they commented they'd knocked on the wrong door was a
> completely absurd reply and an extremely poor one because I'd heard them
> knocking on all apartment doors working their way along until they reached
> my door. To me anyway, it was an obvious excuse to dispense with any
> involvement on my part even on the off chance I might have been
> interested.
>
> Anybody have any other questions or what to challenge my assumptions?
>
While you can freely have any assumption you so choose.....any religious
organization I've ever had personal experience with would not reject someone
because of disability or for any limited potential contribution.....My
father-inlaw (minister) had a lifetime of reaching out including on some
occasions giving his only winter coat (would take a book to touch upon his
60 yr ministry).....Woodworking wise he even donated a few fingertips when a
church project and a tablesaw went awry
The small neighborhood church whom painted my (limited income) 80 yr olds
aunts house (2 story barn style 100 years old) simply because they could and
helping the neighborhood was what they did......she was not a member and had
never even graced their doors.
Based on my experiences I'd think the "door knockers" simply were sorry or
embarassed that they had possibly imposed......some disabilities can make
answering the door a imposition or a burden for the knockee.....Rod
Upscale wrote:
> Anybody have any other questions or what to challenge my assumptions?
Yes.
The next time they come to the door, ask their denomination please. THAT
is the only assumption I'd care to challenge here. That behavior is so
far out of bounds that it doesn't sound like any of the Witnesses I
know. If they are reluctant to reveal their denomination, try to get a
look at the version of Bible they are carrying. That will tell the tale.
There IS the matter of your presumption for their motives ... but enough
churches DO seem pre-occupied with money that it is not an entirely
unreasonable presumption.
However, if you ever find yourself in a Kingdom Hall, you'll find it
actually difficult to give money ... and you'll never, EVER, be asked
for any. They take no collections ... the members know how to contribute
funds as well as time and do ... but they don't ask passers-by and
guests to support them. The arrangement is the same in every one of
their congregations worldwide.
IF it works out that they identify themselves as JW's and behave as
before, would you be so kind as to let us know? I will then take the
further step of contacting you to get your street address so that the
matter can be brought to the attention of the local congregation and, in
no uncertain terms, corrected. Your address will identify the proper
congregation to bring the matter to the attention of.
Are your visitors always the same people? How many come to your door at
once? If they do identify themselves as Witnesses, engage them in
conversation and try to obtain their names.
Bill
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J. Clarke wrote:
> That's the part that you don't seem to be getting. It's not what they
> believe, it's that they are annoying about it.
> )
Why not simply tell them to go away and stay away? That is exactly ALL
it would take if you could but screw up your courage to speak directly
with one of those old women just as they do you.
"Please don't come back" would be the nice way ... but "Don't come
back." would work just as well. By golly, say the words and then slam
the door if it will make you feel better. But you would rather threaten
unarmed people ... even two old women ... with a dog?
What a man!
Yeah, whatever.
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Doug Miller wrote:
> It's "endless" only if you allow it to be. If you can't bring yourself
> to say "No, thank you, I'm not interested", then you can't really blame
> them for continuing to talk. And if you don't have enough gumption to
> turn away and close the door when you've heard enough, shame on you for
> even thinking that you need to set the dog on them -- when you encourage
> them by standing there and listening.
Thank you, Doug. You said politely what I just said with an edge a
moment or two ago. If he had the courage those two elderly women had,
he'd be able to say "Thanks, but no thanks" ... just as he'd refuse a
newspaper subscription. He'd also be able to say "I'd rather you didn't
come back."
JW's keep pretty good records. It would be quite a while before any of
them knocked on his door again.
BIll
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Mon, Dec 11, 2006, 9:04pm [email protected] (Tom=A0Watson) doth
lament:
Bindlestiff: <snip of a sad tale>
My tale is a bit funnier. My shop is small, so I normally leave
the double doors open. Ear muffs on, dust mask, face shield, table saw
going. Notice movement out of the corner of my eye. Here's a well
dressed couple, and and women. The woman's bounding up and down waving
her hand, practilly jumping clear of the ground. No telling how long
they'd been there. You can guess where this's going. Shut the saw off,
unmask, muffs off. "Can I help you?", I ask.
Jehovah's Witnesses. LOL I politely told them to get lost. It's
always fun, when you're in the right mood, with nothing better to do, to
bring out a chair, and sit and listen to them. NOT invite them in, not
bring out chairs for them, just sit and listen to them. For some reason
they never visit me anymore. LMAO
JOAT
I am, therefore I think.
On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 07:58:04 -0500, "Upscale" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Par" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> into the recipients urethra and creative uses of rodents, and the JWs
>> left hurridly.
>
>I've got it easier than that. As soon as they see that I'm in a wheelchair,
>they apologise for knocking on the wrong door. Up until the first time that
>happened, I never realized how prejudicial they are.
>
>
The JW care about such things? So much for their Christian values.
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> I am sure there is a bell curve of both the good and the bad, as in any
> organization, religious or otherwise. I dated a girl who was JW back in my
> youth and one could only wish that there were more upstanding families
like
> those particular folks around in this day and age.
Possibly. Where I live might have a great deal to do with attitudes. I
effectively live in downtown Toronto and one doesn't have to look very far
to find individuals that it would be preferable to avoid if at all possible.
And, I think you'd agree that attitudes are vastly different these days than
they were when you or I were youths.
"Bill in Detroit" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Why not simply tell them to go away and stay away? That is exactly ALL
> it would take if you could but screw up your courage to speak directly
> with one of those old women just as they do you.
I'm wondering how effective that would be considering that I've never had
the same two people appear at the door more than once. As I mentioned in a
previous reply, I guess it's a mute point at this time since it's been a few
years since I've had anyone at the door with religion on their minds.
George Max (in [email protected]) said:
| Being a Mormon could be kinda fun if you get to have multiple wives.
| ;)
Someone once told me that the Chinese ideograph for "trouble" is two
women under one roof.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
Nova wrote:
> J T wrote:
>
>> Jehovah's Witnesses. LOL I politely told them to get lost. It's
>> always fun, when you're in the right mood, with nothing better to do, to
>> bring out a chair, and sit and listen to them. NOT invite them in, not
>> bring out chairs for them, just sit and listen to them. For some reason
>> they never visit me anymore. LMAO
>
>
> It reminds me of the time I was putting a new exhaust system on one of
> my cars. I had the car in the driveway on jack stands while I was
> laying under it mounting the muffler. A group of JW's approached and
> asked if I was busy??? I told them "No, I'm just under here trying to
> get out of the sun."
Ya should've handed them their sign.
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> A personal anecdote about the sheer persistence of Jehovah's Witnesses
> that
> gained my grudging respect:
>
> In my varied careers, and at one point, it was my job to visit villages
> along the coastline of Western Papua New Guinea and
> try to convince the natives to leave our seismograph crew's offshore
> Shoran
> navigation buoys alone.
>
> Many of these natives had seen only a handful of white men and some were
> not
> too friendly (it was shortly after Rockefeller's son disappeared, and I
> was
> instructed to be on the lookout for signs of him).
>
> I tried to search out the headman in each village (you could usually tell
> him by the ballpoint pen in his sari or loincloth) and we generally ended
> up
> in his hooch negotiating the terms of payment to leave our buoys alone.
Are you sure you are not mistaking that place for Arkansas? My nephew
works in Arkansas getting land owners to sign gas lease contracts. Sounds
like the same bunch of people. ;~)
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > "Please don't come back" would be the nice way ... but "Don't come
> > back." would work just as well. By golly, say the words and then slam
> > the door if it will make you feel better.
I think the thing that bothers me the most about people knocking on my door
is the fact that they feel it's necessary thing for them to do for their
religion to thrive. I take offence to any religious organization that comes
to my home believing that the unconverted are lacking in their lives and
need to be saved. I'm sure all religious organizations feel that way to some
degree, but the ones that approach me with the "facts" at hand ready to
engage in debate are in a class of their own. It borders on a smugness and
superiority that is particularly irritating, at least it is to me.
"Henry St.Pierre" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> My mother and my sister are JWs. My mother is 89 and my sister is 63. I
> don't follow their teaching or their belief, but I've met very many
> witnesses. It amazes me me how industrious and family oriented they are.
> They are totally color blind. They will serve in the armed forces,
When did this start? I spent a lot of time with the Witnesses back in the
mid-70's and the armed forces was a definite taboo. It was serving another
god. Their primary missionary purpose overseas near military bases was to
evangelize the military and make them aware of their "misplaced
allegiences".
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"George Max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Oh? Is there another way to take that? They see a guy in a
> wheelchair and leave because of it? True, I'm taking the posters word
> and interpretation of the situation at face value, but as you point
> out, I was not there nor will I ever meet him. What else is there to
> go on?
>
Yeah, actually there are other ways to take that. For one, you are blindly
accepting Upscale's assertion that they left because he was in a wheelchair,
thus not interested in him. That's a pretty big leap of faith. How about
if they made their (reported) statement simply because they were on their
way to meet with someone who *was not* wheelchair bound, and realized when
Upscale came to the door, that they were truly at the wrong house? To take
Upscale's interpretation as the only thing to go on, with so little other
information is a pretty risky adventure. Not because he's in any way
untrustworthy, but because there is just too little information.
> So, at face value, the JWs leaving solely because the guy is in a
> wheelchair isn't a nice thing to do and doesn't reflect well upon
> them.
At face value the scenario says nothing about anyone. Only one who is
anxious to arrive at such a conclusion would rely soley on what has been put
forward, and ignore the inadequacy of what has been put forward.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Henry St.Pierre" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in
> >
> > JW's are NOT Christians. Not even close.
> >
> >
>
> What are they?
They think of themselves in a category all by themselves. They
differentiate themselves from Christians. They are the ones who coined the
term "Christendom" in specific effort to make this differentiation.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"George Max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Oh? Is there another way to take that? They see a guy in a
> wheelchair and leave because of it? True, I'm taking the posters word
> and interpretation of the situation at face value, but as you point
> out, I was not there nor will I ever meet him. What else is there to
> go on?
In all honesty, the several times it has happened, I don't know for sure any
of them were JW's. I assumed they were a religious organization, (maybe
wrongly) because they had a bible in their hands when they knocked on my
door. The impression I've received more than once is that they felt I was
indigent because I was in a wheelchair and would not be able to make any
sort of usable contribution, whether it be money or time or interest or
whatever.
The one time they commented they'd knocked on the wrong door was a
completely absurd reply and an extremely poor one because I'd heard them
knocking on all apartment doors working their way along until they reached
my door. To me anyway, it was an obvious excuse to dispense with any
involvement on my part even on the off chance I might have been interested.
Anybody have any other questions or what to challenge my assumptions?
"Henry St.Pierre" wrote in message
> I
> don't follow their teaching or their belief, but I've met very many
> witnesses. It amazes me me how industrious and family oriented they are.
> They are totally color blind. They will serve in the armed forces, but
> have a problem with blood transfusions if they are wounded. Some will
> accept plasma, but not whole blood. I wonder how many other sects or
> 'religions' are color blind or really believe in family or working for
> their needs or helping each other. I don't think JWs ever go on welfare.
> I've never heard of them asking for money or insisting you listen to
> them.
That pretty much covers my personal experience with JW's, a long time back.
> Awhile ago, one of us wonderful woodworkers (probably a good
> Christian, but not a liberal because liberals are wonderful to everybody
> and hate Christians) threatened to sic his dogs on any JWs that knocked
> on his door.
I don't currently have a dog, but would certainly have kitty intervene with
anyone knocking on the door who is convinced that their particular brand of
religion is necessary for my salvation ... she, unlike some, has actually
learned how to close the door.
It's damned hard to keep talking to a door.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/16/06
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> Once upon a time, I owned a Fiat. One of Italy's finest [fill in the
> blank]. One cold, misty, and altogether miserable day, I was under the
> car trying to fix something or other. The wrench slipped off the bolt
> and I crunched a knuckle or two on some unforgiving piece of steel. Now
> I am rubbing dirt and grease into my wounds to staunch the bleeding
> while my mouth is expressing my dismay in some of my finest, most
> obscene curses of the car, the day and my bad luck. Some motion caught
> my eye and I turned to the side to see two pairs of nicely shined shoes
> and the bottoms of well pressed trousers. I rolled out from under the
> car to snarl at two JWs with eyes like saucers and mouths agape. One
> finally found his voice long enough to apologize for their bad timing.
> I said something like "no shit, Little Beaver" and they hurried off.
> Made the day a little better.
> no more Fiats,
> jo4hn
>
Boy, that brings back a few memories. I used to own a Fiat X-1/9.
Beautiful car, loads of fun to drive, but boy, oh boy, there were some
elements of *dumb* design there.
I agree, no more Fiats. FIAT = Fix It Again Today. Fix It Again
Tomorrow.
Which one did you have?
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
> I think that you're missing the point. I wouldn't put the dog on a JW or
> a Mormon because he was a JW or a Mormon, I would put the dog on him
> because he was an annoying pest who won't take the hint and go away and
> leave me alone.
And I've never had a Mormon or a JW at my door who wouldn't take the
hint and go away, either. In my experience, they are all unfailingly
civil and polite -- and if you tell them politely, "Thank you, but I'm
quite happy with the church I'm in now, and I'm not interested in
joining yours" they'll leave. The *most* I've ever gotten in response to
that statement was one last attempt along the lines of "Alright, but can
I leave this pamphlet/book/magazine/whatever for you to look at?" I
respond, "No, thank you, I'm not interested" and they leave.
>I've never had a Jew or a Seventh Day Adventist knock on my
> door and start pitching his religion. The problem is not their beliefs,
> the problem is their endless pitching of those beliefs.
It's "endless" only if you allow it to be. If you can't bring yourself
to say "No, thank you, I'm not interested", then you can't really blame
them for continuing to talk. And if you don't have enough gumption to
turn away and close the door when you've heard enough, shame on you for
even thinking that you need to set the dog on them -- when you encourage
them by standing there and listening.
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> George Max wrote:
>> On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 07:58:04 -0500, "Upscale" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Par" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >> into the recipients urethra and creative uses of rodents, and the
>> >> JWs left hurridly.
>> >
>> >I've got it easier than that. As soon as they see that I'm in a
>> >wheelchair, they apologise for knocking on the wrong door. Up until
>> >the first time that happened, I never realized how prejudicial they
>> >are.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> The JW care about such things? So much for their Christian values.
>
> JW's are NOT Christians. Not even close.
>
>
What are they?
jo4hn <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Doug Miller wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> [email protected] says...
>>
>>>Once upon a time, I owned a Fiat. One of Italy's finest [fill in the
>>>blank]. One cold, misty, and altogether miserable day, I was under
>>>the car trying to fix something or other. The wrench slipped off the
>>>bolt and I crunched a knuckle or two on some unforgiving piece of
>>>steel. Now I am rubbing dirt and grease into my wounds to staunch
>>>the bleeding while my mouth is expressing my dismay in some of my
>>>finest, most obscene curses of the car, the day and my bad luck.
>>>Some motion caught my eye and I turned to the side to see two pairs
>>>of nicely shined shoes and the bottoms of well pressed trousers. I
>>>rolled out from under the car to snarl at two JWs with eyes like
>>>saucers and mouths agape. One finally found his voice long enough to
>>>apologize for their bad timing. I said something like "no shit,
>>>Little Beaver" and they hurried off. Made the day a little better.
>>> no more Fiats,
>>> jo4hn
>>>
>>
>> Boy, that brings back a few memories. I used to own a Fiat X-1/9.
>> Beautiful car, loads of fun to drive, but boy, oh boy, there were
>> some elements of *dumb* design there.
>>
>> I agree, no more Fiats. FIAT = Fix It Again Today. Fix It Again
>> Tomorrow.
>>
>> Which one did you have?
> 124 Sport Coupe. Absolutely the best drive I ever had. You want
> peace, quiet, reliability? Buy a Toyota. I invested in a shop
> manual. Stupid things would break: the valve for the heater leaked
> coolant on the passenger side floor, the gas tank filler hose would
> sporadically spring a leak, the wiper gear broke, I could clean the
> jets in the WEBER carb in about 15 minutes, etc. I got about 50k
> miles on it before it started using more oil than gas. Sold it to two
> brothers who wanted to know if the tranny was in good shape.
> Jeeeaaapers.
>
> On the good side, it had a twin OHC engine that was redlined at 8k
> (IIRC). Four wheel disk brakes, 5 speed tranny, honest to God bucket
> seats. If only it could have held together for a few years. Sigh.
>
> twitch,
> jo4hn
>
Mine did (a '78'), but then I knew how to drive it and how to fix it. Got
a bunch of little statues to prove it (SCAA even though they fucked up
the class).
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> "Par" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> into the recipients urethra and creative uses of rodents, and the JWs
>> left hurridly.
>
> I've got it easier than that. As soon as they see that I'm in a
> wheelchair, they apologise for knocking on the wrong door. Up until
> the first time that happened, I never realized how prejudicial they
> are.
>
>
>
My mother and my sister are JWs. My mother is 89 and my sister is 63. I
don't follow their teaching or their belief, but I've met very many
witnesses. It amazes me me how industrious and family oriented they are.
They are totally color blind. They will serve in the armed forces, but
have a problem with blood transfusions if they are wounded. Some will
accept plasma, but not whole blood. I wonder how many other sects or
'religions' are color blind or really believe in family or working for
their needs or helping each other. I don't think JWs ever go on welfare.
I've never heard of them asking for money or insisting you listen to
them. Awhile ago, one of us wonderful woodworkers (probably a good
Christian, but not a liberal because liberals are wonderful to everybody
and hate Christians) threatened to sic his dogs on any JWs that knocked
on his door. I responded with my feelings, and you can take this to the
bank and use it at my trial, if anyone ever put their dogs on or harmed
my mother or sister in anyway, they would meet a very unpleasant end.
So Mr.Upscale, you are in a wheelchair. Does that make you special or
does it make other people uncomfortable? I can't see why a JW or Catholic
or Protestant or Mormon or Budhist or Hindu or Jew or Muslim or follower
of the Great Spirit Manitou or Pagan would apologise for knocking on your
door and offering literature. I left a few out, but the last person to
reject or be prejudiced towards a person in a wheelchair would be a JW or
perhaps a follower of the great spirit.
Being in a wheelchair isn't fun. I spent some time in one awhile ago. I
got three holes in one leg, but only got one heart. Some guys got all the
luck and never missed a day of work.
Hank
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> "Par" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> into the recipients urethra and creative uses of rodents, and the JWs
>> left hurridly.
>
> I've got it easier than that. As soon as they see that I'm in a
> wheelchair, they apologise for knocking on the wrong door. Up until
> the first time that happened, I never realized how prejudicial they
> are.
>
>
>
Upscale, this is not for you.
It's for the good Americans (and a few (very few) Canadians) and
Christians. Does your attitude extend to Jews and Seventh Day adventists
also? How about Mormons? Gee I'm proud of you all. Maybe sic the dogs on
them... how about camps or ovens? I wonder where Doug, the protector of
high ideals is, where is the rest of the conservative camp like Mark and
Juanita? How about Fred and his cohorts from the left? Where's Morris on
this?
Clark surprised me. He's usually takes a high road. JT was at his usual.
Fondest regards,
Hank
J T wrote:
> Sun, Dec 17, 2006, 3:56am (EST-1) [email protected] (Henry St.Pierre)
> doth burble:
> Upscale, this is not for you.
> It's for the good Americans (and a few (very few) Canadians) and
> Christians. Does your attitude extend to Jews and Seventh Day adventists
> also? <snip>
>
> LMAO The only reason I'm against Jehovah's Witnesses is when they
> come around and try to recruit. Any other time I could care less.
> Never had any Mormons around, or I'd feel the same about them. Same
> with about any other religion you ight want to name (except animal or
> child sacrifice), they want to come to my place, I'm gonna be against
> 'em. They stay away and I'll get along with any of 'em. If I wanted to
> be a whatever religion, I already would be.
Seems like they should get as much say as the atheists, don't ya think?
The theists have been run out of all public buildings and most corporate
ones as well. Some of them have taken to walking from private door to
private door, burning their own shoe leather, and you want to take that
away from them too.
Do you intend to permit them ANY freedom of expression or are you only
going to be content with a titanium muzzle?
You get a chance and are so inclined, check out Matthew 28:19-20. That's
Jesus' final instructions. They aren't there to recruit you, either. But
I'll let their real purpose remain a mystery to you*. You seem happier
that way.
Bill
* the key to it all is knowing what a disciple is.
---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 0659-1, 12/16/2006
Tested on: 12/18/2006 11:49:51 PM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2006 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com
Mon, Dec 18, 2006, 11:49pm [email protected] (Bill=A0in=A0Detroit) doth
sayeth:
Seems like they should get as much say as the atheists, don't ya think?
<snip>
LOL They do. I don't care who either talk to, try to recruit,
whatever. As long as it isn't me. Personally I'm not as strong a
believer as the athiests have to be to truely believe their isn't a God,
or whatever. I've spent a lot of years, time, thought, and researching,
coming up with my personal brand of spirituality, and I'm not about to
change for anyone. If I know either type in my public life, then I'll
be happy to talk to they as people. Or any religion for that matter.
But trying to get me to change, no way, no matter what their religion.
For what it's worth, I consider the Bible as a collection of
stories, with fact mixed in here and there; but NOT a guide to live by.
JOAT
Where does Batman buy gas for the Batmobile?
Sun, Dec 17, 2006, 3:56am (EST-1) [email protected] (Henry=A0St.Pierre)
doth burble:
Upscale, this is not for you.
It's for the good Americans (and a few (very few) Canadians) and
Christians. Does your attitude extend to Jews and Seventh Day adventists
also? <snip>
LMAO The only reason I'm against Jehovah's Witnesses is when they
come around and try to recruit. Any other time I could care less.
Never had any Mormons around, or I'd feel the same about them. Same
with about any other religion you ight want to name (except animal or
child sacrifice), they want to come to my place, I'm gonna be against
'em. They stay away and I'll get along with any of 'em. If I wanted to
be a whatever religion, I already would be.
JOAT
Where does Batman buy gas for the Batmobile?
On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 23:49:50 -0500, Bill in Detroit wrote:
> J T wrote:
>> Sun, Dec 17, 2006, 3:56am (EST-1) [email protected] (Henry St.Pierre)
>> doth burble:
>> Upscale, this is not for you.
>> It's for the good Americans (and a few (very few) Canadians) and
>> Christians. Does your attitude extend to Jews and Seventh Day adventists
>> also? <snip>
>>
>> LMAO The only reason I'm against Jehovah's Witnesses is when they
>> come around and try to recruit. Any other time I could care less.
>> Never had any Mormons around, or I'd feel the same about them. Same
>> with about any other religion you ight want to name (except animal or
>> child sacrifice), they want to come to my place, I'm gonna be against
>> 'em. They stay away and I'll get along with any of 'em. If I wanted to
>> be a whatever religion, I already would be.
>
>
> Seems like they should get as much say as the atheists, don't ya think?
> The theists have been run out of all public buildings and most corporate
> ones as well.
They have? You mean the only people permitted to enter public and
corporate buildings are atheists? Last I heard the White House was a
"public building". The last I heard its occupant was a Methodist, not an
Atheist.
> Some of them have taken to walking from private door to
> private door, burning their own shoe leather, and you want to take that
> away from them too.
I've never had an atheist knock on my door and try to sell me atheism.
If he did he'd get the dog too.
> Do you intend to permit them ANY freedom of expression or are you only
> going to be content with a titanium muzzle?
I don't care what they do as long as they don't do it on my property.
> You get a chance and are so inclined, check out Matthew 28:19-20. That's
> Jesus' final instructions. They aren't there to recruit you, either. But
> I'll let their real purpose remain a mystery to you*. You seem happier
> that way.
>
> Bill
>
> * the key to it all is knowing what a disciple is.
>
>
> ---
> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0659-1,
> 12/16/2006 Tested on: 12/18/2006 11:49:51 PM avast! - copyright (c)
> 1988-2006 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
"Bill in Detroit" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Are your visitors always the same people? How many come to your door at
> once? If they do identify themselves as Witnesses, engage them in
> conversation and try to obtain their names.
In all honesty Bill, I just am not interested enough in them to bother with
determining "correctness". It's been a few years since anyone has come to
the door with religion on their minds. Whenever it has happened, there's
always two of them and more often than not, it's been two women. The one
time they appeared to be embarrassed that I answered the door, it was two
women of Asian descent. As a matter of interest though, the next time it
does happen, I'll ask what group they're representing before I tell them I'm
not interested.
"George Max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> I think Tom Cruise is a member of the Church of Scientology, not the
> JW.
Yes, you're right. I had Church of Scientology on my mind because I remember
going into one of their buildings near where I live and asking if I could
use their phone and was promptly refused.
On 13 Dec 2006 20:00:21 GMT, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 11:12:49 -0600, George Max wrote:
>
>
>>
>> I think Tom Cruise is a member of the Church of Scientology, not the
>> JW.
>
>Yep. The Jehova's Witnesses and the Mormons are the people you usually
>find at your door at inopportune moments. Both of them are sorta kinda
>Christian--the Witnesses disagree with the mainstream on a large number of
>points, while the Mormons believe that they have had a separate
>revelation beyond what is in the Bible. The Christian Scientists are the
>folks who publish a first-class newspaper and don't believe in medicine.
>The Scientologists are the, well, nuts like Tom Cruise who believe in
>Xenu and that humans are descended from clams and that doesn't believe in
>psychiatry but doesn't have any trouble with any other branch of medicine.
Being a Mormon could be kinda fun if you get to have multiple wives.
;)
(just kidding)
Wed, Dec 13, 2006, 4:30pm (EST-1) [email protected] (George=A0Max) doth
dream:
Being a Mormon could be kinda fun if you get to have multiple wives.
Maybe. Until they get together and start bitching about you.
JOAT
Where does Batman buy gas for the Batmobile?
"J T" <[email protected]> wrote in message
Wed, Dec 13, 2006, 4:30pm (EST-1) [email protected] (George Max) doth
dream:
Being a Mormon could be kinda fun if you get to have multiple wives.
Maybe. Until they get together and start bitching about you.
Bitching about you isn't the problem. It's when you're arguing with one of
them and the others automatically join in and they gang up on you as a
group. It's as if a silent bell in a non-existent boxing ring goes off in
their heads and you get mobbed. Gives me nightmares of when I was living
with my mother, my aunt and my sister in my mother's house. That was 17
years ago. I can still distinctly remember the day I moved out and the
feeling of being in my own apartment. It was QUIET and absolutely no one
there to start an argument with. Pure bliss.
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "J T" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Wed, Dec 13, 2006, 4:30pm (EST-1) [email protected] (George Max) doth
> dream:
> Being a Mormon could be kinda fun if you get to have multiple wives.
>
> Maybe. Until they get together and start bitching about you.
>
> Bitching about you isn't the problem. It's when you're arguing with one of
> them and the others automatically join in and they gang up on you as a
> group. It's as if a silent bell in a non-existent boxing ring goes off in
> their heads and you get mobbed. Gives me nightmares of when I was living
> with my mother, my aunt and my sister in my mother's house. That was 17
> years ago. I can still distinctly remember the day I moved out and the
> feeling of being in my own apartment. It was QUIET and absolutely no one
> there to start an argument with. Pure bliss.
>
>
Medical fact that women living under the same roof gradually synchronize
their cycles. PMS to the what power?
On 14 Dec 2006 12:15:37 -0800, "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>George Max wrote:
>[snip]
>>
>> Let's make this solution woodworking related - get 2 houses. Or 3.
>> One for each wife. ;)
>>
>
>I already did that.
Nice. Just like that HBO series - "Big Love"
On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 12:10:54 GMT, "George" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "J T" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> Wed, Dec 13, 2006, 4:30pm (EST-1) [email protected] (George Max) doth
>> dream:
>> Being a Mormon could be kinda fun if you get to have multiple wives.
>>
>> Maybe. Until they get together and start bitching about you.
>>
>
>Medical fact that women living under the same roof gradually synchronize
>their cycles. PMS to the what power?
Let's make this solution woodworking related - get 2 houses. Or 3.
One for each wife. ;)
hahaha
"Par" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> into the recipients urethra and creative uses of rodents, and the JWs
> left hurridly.
I've got it easier than that. As soon as they see that I'm in a wheelchair,
they apologise for knocking on the wrong door. Up until the first time that
happened, I never realized how prejudicial they are.
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I believe I've told the story of Mustafa here before, but people seem to
> like it so I'll repeat it.
>
> At one time I was an active target shooter. A friend and I had planned a
> day at the range. As soon as we got set up, it started to rain. Hard.
> One of those rains where the targets turned to mush and you couldn't see
> them from the line anyway. So we decided to hang it up and went home.
> On the way to the parking area I slipped in the mud. At the time I had
> hair down to my ass, beard, etc, most of it not very well maintained.
>
> We got to my place, he went in first, I went after, bringing both our
> armamentariums for the purpose of cleaning them. I closed the door, took
> three steps, and there came the dreaded knock. I turned, and opened the
> door, mud from head to toe, bearded, long haired, unkempt, not in a
> particularly good mood, and festooned with a small arsenal. It was the
> Witnesses. For some reason the Muse was upon me that day and I turned and
> yelled in a mock Middle Eastern accent toward the back of the apartment
> "Hey, Mus-ta-FA, want to discuss religion with the infidel?" I turned
> around. There was a shoe.
>
> Didn't see another JW again until I had moved to another state halfway
> across the country.
>
Clarke - you are forgiven a large amount of past sins for this. Precious.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 14:18:19 -0800, jo4hn wrote:
> I believe I've told the story of Mustafa here before, but people seem to
> like it so I'll repeat it.
>
> At one time I was an active target shooter. A friend and I had planned a
> day at the range. As soon as we got set up, it started to rain. Hard.
> One of those rains where the targets turned to mush and you couldn't see
> them from the line anyway. So we decided to hang it up and went home.
> On the way to the parking area I slipped in the mud. At the time I had
> hair down to my ass, beard, etc, most of it not very well maintained.
>
> We got to my place, he went in first, I went after, bringing both our
> armamentariums for the purpose of cleaning them. I closed the door, took
> three steps, and there came the dreaded knock. I turned, and opened the
> door, mud from head to toe, bearded, long haired, unkempt, not in a
> particularly good mood, and festooned with a small arsenal. It was the
> Witnesses. For some reason the Muse was upon me that day and I turned and
> yelled in a mock Middle Eastern accent toward the back of the apartment
> "Hey, Mus-ta-FA, want to discuss religion with the infidel?" I turned
> around. There was a shoe.
>
> Didn't see another JW again until I had moved to another state halfway
> across the country.
>
Ya know, I was beginning to hope this thread would die off, but after that
story, I'm glad it hasn't.
ROTFLMFAO!
JC
On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 11:12:49 -0600, George Max wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 11:22:30 -0500, "Upscale" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"George Max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> >
>>> >I've got it easier than that. As soon as they see that I'm in a
>>wheelchair,
>>> >they apologise for knocking on the wrong door. Up until the first time
>>that
>>> >happened, I never realized how prejudicial they are.
>>> >
>>> The JW care about such things? So much for their Christian values.
>>
>>I believe they're only interested in people that can contribute to their
>>organization and don't have anything to do with people who they believe
>>might need some form of support. They must have been jumping with joyful
>>bliss when they got their hooks into Tom Cruise.
>>
>
> I think Tom Cruise is a member of the Church of Scientology, not the
> JW.
Yep. The Jehova's Witnesses and the Mormons are the people you usually
find at your door at inopportune moments. Both of them are sorta kinda
Christian--the Witnesses disagree with the mainstream on a large number of
points, while the Mormons believe that they have had a separate
revelation beyond what is in the Bible. The Christian Scientists are the
folks who publish a first-class newspaper and don't believe in medicine.
The Scientologists are the, well, nuts like Tom Cruise who believe in
Xenu and that humans are descended from clams and that doesn't believe in
psychiatry but doesn't have any trouble with any other branch of medicine.
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:30:17 -0600, George Max wrote:
> On 13 Dec 2006 20:00:21 GMT, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 11:12:49 -0600, George Max wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I think Tom Cruise is a member of the Church of Scientology, not the
>>> JW.
>>
>>Yep. The Jehova's Witnesses and the Mormons are the people you usually
>>find at your door at inopportune moments. Both of them are sorta kinda
>>Christian--the Witnesses disagree with the mainstream on a large number of
>>points, while the Mormons believe that they have had a separate
>>revelation beyond what is in the Bible. The Christian Scientists are the
>>folks who publish a first-class newspaper and don't believe in medicine.
>>The Scientologists are the, well, nuts like Tom Cruise who believe in
>>Xenu and that humans are descended from clams and that doesn't believe in
>>psychiatry but doesn't have any trouble with any other branch of medicine.
>
>
> Being a Mormon could be kinda fun if you get to have multiple wives.
Geez, one is bad enough.
> ;)
>
>
>
> (just kidding)
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 14:18:19 -0800, jo4hn wrote:
> J T wrote:
>> Mon, Dec 11, 2006, 9:04pm [email protected] (Tom Watson) doth
>> lament:
>> Bindlestiff: <snip of a sad tale>
>> [more snippage]
>
>>
>> Jehovah's Witnesses. LOL I politely told them to get lost. It's
>> always fun, when you're in the right mood, with nothing better to do, to
>> bring out a chair, and sit and listen to them. NOT invite them in, not
>> bring out chairs for them, just sit and listen to them. For some reason
>> they never visit me anymore. LMAO
>>
>>
>>
>> JOAT
>> I am, therefore I think.
>>
>
> Once upon a time, I owned a Fiat. One of Italy's finest [fill in the
> blank]. One cold, misty, and altogether miserable day, I was under the
> car trying to fix something or other. The wrench slipped off the bolt
> and I crunched a knuckle or two on some unforgiving piece of steel. Now
> I am rubbing dirt and grease into my wounds to staunch the bleeding
> while my mouth is expressing my dismay in some of my finest, most
> obscene curses of the car, the day and my bad luck. Some motion caught
> my eye and I turned to the side to see two pairs of nicely shined shoes
> and the bottoms of well pressed trousers. I rolled out from under the
> car to snarl at two JWs with eyes like saucers and mouths agape. One
> finally found his voice long enough to apologize for their bad timing.
> I said something like "no shit, Little Beaver" and they hurried off.
> Made the day a little better.
I believe I've told the story of Mustafa here before, but people seem to
like it so I'll repeat it.
At one time I was an active target shooter. A friend and I had planned a
day at the range. As soon as we got set up, it started to rain. Hard.
One of those rains where the targets turned to mush and you couldn't see
them from the line anyway. So we decided to hang it up and went home.
On the way to the parking area I slipped in the mud. At the time I had
hair down to my ass, beard, etc, most of it not very well maintained.
We got to my place, he went in first, I went after, bringing both our
armamentariums for the purpose of cleaning them. I closed the door, took
three steps, and there came the dreaded knock. I turned, and opened the
door, mud from head to toe, bearded, long haired, unkempt, not in a
particularly good mood, and festooned with a small arsenal. It was the
Witnesses. For some reason the Muse was upon me that day and I turned and
yelled in a mock Middle Eastern accent toward the back of the apartment
"Hey, Mus-ta-FA, want to discuss religion with the infidel?" I turned
around. There was a shoe.
Didn't see another JW again until I had moved to another state halfway
across the country.
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 03:56:06 -0600, Henry St.Pierre wrote:
> "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>>
>> "Par" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> into the recipients urethra and creative uses of rodents, and the JWs
>>> left hurridly.
>>
>> I've got it easier than that. As soon as they see that I'm in a
>> wheelchair, they apologise for knocking on the wrong door. Up until
>> the first time that happened, I never realized how prejudicial they
>> are.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Upscale, this is not for you.
> It's for the good Americans (and a few (very few) Canadians) and
> Christians. Does your attitude extend to Jews and Seventh Day adventists
> also? How about Mormons? Gee I'm proud of you all. Maybe sic the dogs on
> them... how about camps or ovens? I wonder where Doug, the protector of
> high ideals is, where is the rest of the conservative camp like Mark and
> Juanita? How about Fred and his cohorts from the left? Where's Morris on
> this?
> Clark surprised me. He's usually takes a high road. JT was at his
> usual.
I think that you're missing the point. I wouldn't put the dog on a JW or
a Mormon because he was a JW or a Mormon, I would put the dog on him
because he was an annoying pest who won't take the hint and go away and
leave me alone. I've never had a Jew or a Seventh Day Adventist knock on my
door and start pitching his religion. The problem is not their beliefs,
the problem is their endless pitching of those beliefs.
I wouldn't have any trouble at all with camps or ovens for
petition-takers, door-to-door salesmen, and religious proselytes. You can
throw in telemarketers and televangelists and paparazzi and senders of
junk mail and spammers while you're about it. For lawyers, politicians,
bureaucrats, and journalists I would favor a hunting season with a bag
limit--they do serve a purpose but the herd size needs to be controlled.
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Sun, Dec 17, 2006, 1:30pm (EST+5) [email protected] (J.=A0Clarke)
doth wisely sayeth:
I think that you're missing the point. I wouldn't put the dog on a JW or
a Mormon because he was a JW or a Mormon, I would put the dog on him
because he was an annoying pest <snip of good stuff>
I wouldn't have any trouble at all with camps or ovens <snip> For
lawyers, politicians, bureaucrats, and journalists I would favor a
hunting season with a bag limit--they do serve a purpose but the herd
size needs to be controlled.
That pretty well says it for me too. For the rest of this thread
I'll second anything you say.
JOAT
Where does Batman buy gas for the Batmobile?
On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 03:33:24 -0600, Henry St.Pierre wrote:
> "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>>
>> "Par" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> into the recipients urethra and creative uses of rodents, and the JWs
>>> left hurridly.
>>
>> I've got it easier than that. As soon as they see that I'm in a
>> wheelchair, they apologise for knocking on the wrong door. Up until
>> the first time that happened, I never realized how prejudicial they
>> are.
>>
>>
>>
>
> My mother and my sister are JWs. My mother is 89 and my sister is 63. I
> don't follow their teaching or their belief, but I've met very many
> witnesses. It amazes me me how industrious and family oriented they are.
> They are totally color blind. They will serve in the armed forces, but
> have a problem with blood transfusions if they are wounded. Some will
> accept plasma, but not whole blood. I wonder how many other sects or
> 'religions' are color blind or really believe in family or working for
> their needs or helping each other. I don't think JWs ever go on welfare.
> I've never heard of them asking for money or insisting you listen to
> them. Awhile ago, one of us wonderful woodworkers (probably a good
> Christian, but not a liberal because liberals are wonderful to everybody
> and hate Christians) threatened to sic his dogs on any JWs that knocked
> on his door. I responded with my feelings, and you can take this to the
> bank and use it at my trial, if anyone ever put their dogs on or harmed
> my mother or sister in anyway, they would meet a very unpleasant end.
Seems to me that if your mother and sister don't want the dogs put on them
the obvious thing to do is not go knocking on the doors of strangers.
> So Mr.Upscale, you are in a wheelchair. Does that make you special or
> does it make other people uncomfortable? I can't see why a JW or
> Catholic or Protestant or Mormon or Budhist or Hindu or Jew or Muslim
> or follower of the Great Spirit Manitou or Pagan would apologise for
> knocking on your door and offering literature.
I've never had a Catholic or Protestant or Buddhist or Hindu or Jew or
Muslim or follower of the Great Spirit Manitou or Pagan come do my door
offering literature, just JWs and Mormons. If any of the others came by
and started pitching their religion they'd get the dog too.
That's the part that you don't seem to be getting. It's not what they
believe, it's that they are annoying about it.
> I left a few out, but the
> last person to reject or be prejudiced towards a person in a wheelchair
> would be a JW or perhaps a follower of the great spirit. Being in a
> wheelchair isn't fun. I spent some time in one awhile ago. I got three
> holes in one leg, but only got one heart. Some guys got all the luck and
> never missed a day of work.
> Hank
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 08:25:56 -0600, George Max wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 01:40:17 -0500, Bill in Detroit <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>George Max wrote:
>>> On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 07:58:04 -0500, "Upscale" <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Par" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>> into the recipients urethra and creative uses of rodents, and the
>>>>> JWs left hurridly.
>>>> I've got it easier than that. As soon as they see that I'm in a
>>>> wheelchair, they apologise for knocking on the wrong door. Up until
>>>> the first time that happened, I never realized how prejudicial they
>>>> are.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> The JW care about such things? So much for their Christian values.
>>
>>George, you would pass judgment on over 6 million people on the
>>testimony of one man whom you've likely never met and most likely never
>>will?
>>
>>Bill
>>
>>
> Oh? Is there another way to take that? They see a guy in a wheelchair
> and leave because of it? True, I'm taking the posters word and
> interpretation of the situation at face value, but as you point out, I
> was not there nor will I ever meet him. What else is there to go on?
>
> So, at face value, the JWs leaving solely because the guy is in a
> wheelchair isn't a nice thing to do and doesn't reflect well upon them.
Really depends on the circumstances. If they were just doing their
general canvass then no, it doesn't reflect well on them. If they were
there to pick up somebody who promised that he'd help fix the roof on the
Kingdom House then it's a fair bet they were in the wrong place. Or who
knows, maybe the wheelchair didn't have anything to do with it--maybe they
were just looking for a member of the congregation known to them, who had
given them lousy directions to his house, and the guy that answered the
door clearly wasn't him.
> When the JWs come to my house, they'd talk my ear off if I'd let them.
> But I'm not in a wheelchair and hope to never be.
>
> I will give this to the JWs - they can take no for an answer. I really
> do respect the politeness they've demonstrated to me.
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 23:32:16 -0500, Bill in Detroit wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> That's the part that you don't seem to be getting. It's not what they
>> believe, it's that they are annoying about it.
>> )
>
> Why not simply tell them to go away and stay away?
Did. They came back.
> That is exactly ALL
> it would take if you could but screw up your courage to speak directly
> with one of those old women just as they do you.
Dream on.
> "Please don't come back" would be the nice way ... but "Don't come
> back." would work just as well. By golly, say the words and then slam
> the door if it will make you feel better. But you would rather threaten
> unarmed people ... even two old women ... with a dog?
If you don't want the dog then don't come on the property uninvited.
> What a man!
Assuming facts not in evidence.
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
>... believing that the unconverted are lacking in their lives and
> need to be saved. I'm sure all religious organizations feel that way to
some
> degree.
Although that's probably true for all branches of Christianity, actually
that's incorrect.
Being raised in a Chritian home, I used to think that too. There are
non-missianary religions, for instance Judaism. More abstractly, not all
religions define "religion" the same way. Budhists are all about a way of
being, not a relationship with God.
That said, the knockers irritate me too.
-Steve
Tue, Dec 19, 2006, 4:18am [email protected] (C=A0&=A0S) doth
sayeth:
<snip> That said, the knockers irritate me too.
Wouldn't that depend on your definition of "knockers"?
JOAT
Where does Batman buy gas for the Batmobile?
"J T" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:535-45881472-
JOAT
Where does Batman buy gas for the Batmobile?
GAS? I thought it ran on batteries....
"George Max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >
> >I've got it easier than that. As soon as they see that I'm in a
wheelchair,
> >they apologise for knocking on the wrong door. Up until the first time
that
> >happened, I never realized how prejudicial they are.
> >
> The JW care about such things? So much for their Christian values.
I believe they're only interested in people that can contribute to their
organization and don't have anything to do with people who they believe
might need some form of support. They must have been jumping with joyful
bliss when they got their hooks into Tom Cruise.
Mike Marlow wrote:
> So, if the actions of the individuals of an organization are merit for
> dismissing the organization, you must really hate the human race...
>
Lemme see here... we've done the Dubya thing, 2 or 3 wire 220, Sawstop,
left vs right tilt saw and now religion.
I have an opinion on religion(s): there are assholes in all religions.
There is more strife between Christian factions than any other
religion.
Rob does not believe in organized crime, organized religion or
organized tours.
If we all drew a 500 meter circle around us and took care of those
within that circle, the world would be a better place.
Having said that, there will likely be an asshole who thinks that
circle should be 477.3 meters.
*shrugs*
Gore and Obama 2008.
r
Mike Marlow wrote:
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>>If we all drew a 500 meter circle around us and took care of those
>>within that circle, the world would be a better place.
>>Having said that, there will likely be an asshole who thinks that
>>circle should be 477.3 meters.
>>
>
>
> And just imagine the battles between the 500m circle groups. There'd be the
> left tilt's the right tilt's, the undecided's, the...
>
And I saw Dubya tilt to the right and stop.
me and Britney 2008
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>"Scott Lurndal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>> >
>> >So, if the actions of the individuals of an organization are merit for
>> >dismissing the organization, you must really hate the human race...
>>
>> So are the actions of the individuals of the KKK (an organization)
>> merit for dismissing that organization?
>
>That would be correct. It's the prinicples of the KKK that merit its
>dismissal as an organization.
>
>>
>> Religion is the biggest problem the world will face in the next
>> century.
>>
>
>Au contraire - there is absolutely nothing wrong with religion. It's the
>people in the religions that are the problem. They are the same people that
>one finds in the human race. If it were not for religion, mankind would
>simply find some other justification for those problems you foretell.
>
If there were only one religion, I'd be tempted to agree. However,
there are multiple, fundamentally incompatible religions. So long as
that is the case, religion will be the source of much strife. Everyone
thinks that their religion is "revealed truth" and any other is apostacy.
scott
"Henry St.Pierre" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Nah this is a forum for folks (and I am one of them) that can't get their
> opinions or beliefs seen, read or heard anywhere else. Kind of like a
> chamber for the insignificant.
Which explains fully why you're participating. Your lack of contribution in
any other way forces you to try and be heard here. My condolences.
"J T" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> So you can't contribute? What happens then when one of 'em gets
> sick, and needs support? They kick their asses out, or just take 'em on
> to the back forty, shoot 'em, and bury 'em? Doesn't make sense. So Tom
> Cruise joined them? I thought he'd just gone nuts. Maybe the same
> thing.
>
Maybe when they saw Upscale in a wheel chair they really meant that they
must be at the wrong door - maybe the person they were looking for was not
wheelchair bound.
> Those are only part of the reasons I don't believe in religion.
> And the Woodworking Gods are with me 100% on that..
>
So, if the actions of the individuals of an organization are merit for
dismissing the organization, you must really hate the human race...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Geeze - can't believe I came this close to actually defending the JW.
Wed, Dec 13, 2006, 2:03pm [email protected] (Mike=A0Marlow) doth
sayeth:
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Those are only part of the reasons I don't
believe in religion. And the Woodworking Gods are with me 100% on that..
So, if the actions of the individuals of an organization are merit for
dismissing the organization, you must really hate the human race...
You're reading things I didn't say; that seems to happen quite
often. What I said was, I don't believe in religion. Perhaps I should
have also said, for myself. Not a word said about idividuals. I hate
people individually, not because of race, color, creed, or religion -
just if they're a**holess., and that retty much included people of every
race, color, creed, or religion.. Jehovah' Witnesses are not be be
hated, but they do tend to be extremely irritation when they're "on
their mission".
JOAT
Where does Batman buy gas for the Batmobile?
Wed, Dec 13, 2006, 11:22am [email protected] (Upscale) doth sayeth:
I believe they're only interested in people that can contribute to their
organization and don't have anything to do with people who they believe
might need some form of support. They must have been jumping with joyful
bliss when they got their hooks into Tom Cruise.
So you can't contribute? What happens then when one of 'em gets
sick, and needs support? They kick their asses out, or just take 'em on
to the back forty, shoot 'em, and bury 'em? Doesn't make sense. So Tom
Cruise joined them? I thought he'd just gone nuts. Maybe the same
thing.
Those are only part of the reasons I don't believe in religion.
And the Woodworking Gods are with me 100% on that..
JOAT
Where does Batman buy gas for the Batmobile?
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> If we all drew a 500 meter circle around us and took care of those
> within that circle, the world would be a better place.
> Having said that, there will likely be an asshole who thinks that
> circle should be 477.3 meters.
>
And just imagine the battles between the 500m circle groups. There'd be the
left tilt's the right tilt's, the undecided's, the...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Which supports my case. Religion is not different than politics.
> Differing
> view/allegiances/beliefs, zealots, and human nature underlying it all.
> It's
> not religion, it's the people in religion. The multiplicity of religion
> does not diminish the point. One religion or one hundred thousand, it
> still
> comes down to human nature. As I said in another post, remove religion
> and
> humans will still find a way to carry on their antics against one another.
>
> Hell - just look at what goes on here in a usenet newsgroup. Religion
> does
> not even have to enter the picture. Look back over the past month of
> posts.
> You'll see plenty of human nature at work.
>
I think the psychobabble people call what you're doing "projection." You
ascribe to others the same rigidity you're displaying. They believe, you
believe. Where you differ, you expect them to become enlightened and accept
your point of view. It's not about the facts, it's about truth, two very
different things. Truth is the personal interpretation of the facts, and is
often in conflict with them.
[email protected] (J T) wrote in news:538-458032CC-15@storefull-
3335.bay.webtv.net:
> Wed, Dec 13, 2006, 11:22am [email protected] (Upscale) doth sayeth:
> I believe they're only interested in people that can contribute to their
> organization and don't have anything to do with people who they believe
> might need some form of support. They must have been jumping with joyful
> bliss when they got their hooks into Tom Cruise.
>
> So you can't contribute? What happens then when one of 'em gets
> sick, and needs support? They kick their asses out, or just take 'em on
> to the back forty, shoot 'em, and bury 'em? Doesn't make sense. So Tom
> Cruise joined them? I thought he'd just gone nuts. Maybe the same
> thing.
>
> Those are only part of the reasons I don't believe in religion.
> And the Woodworking Gods are with me 100% on that..
>
>
>
> JOAT
> Where does Batman buy gas for the Batmobile?
>
>
Learn something about the witnesses before you shoot your learned mouth
off. Don't be like the asshole Upscale who doesn't know a Witness from a
Scientologist. Witnesses will come to your door (like Mormons) and offer
you handouts, but NEVER ask you for money. People can take lessons from
them as far as family values are concerned. Keep tickling your prostate.
Regards,
Hank
I had a friend who had brought a jade Buddha statue back from the wars and had
a faux shrine set up in his living room. When he saw the JWs approaching, he
rounded up some candles and lit them in front of the shrine. When they
knocked, he invited them in to pray at his shrine.
It was a very short visit :-).
--
It's turtles, all the way down
Larry Blanchard wrote:
> I had a friend who had brought a jade Buddha statue back from the wars and had
> a faux shrine set up in his living room. When he saw the JWs approaching, he
> rounded up some candles and lit them in front of the shrine. When they
> knocked, he invited them in to pray at his shrine.
>
> It was a very short visit :-).
>
It wasn't the shrine. It was your deodorant. That and the fact that they
don't in any way condone interfaith. (The Jews tried that. It doesn't work.)
---
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Virus Database (VPS): 0659-1, 12/16/2006
Tested on: 12/18/2006 10:12:47 PM
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http://www.avast.com
Sun, Dec 17, 2006, 2:03am (EST-1) [email protected] (Henry=A0St.Pierre)
doth burbleth:
Learn something about the witnesses before you shoot your learned mouth
off. Don't be like the asshole Upscale who doesn't know a Witness from a
Scientologist. Witnesses will come to your door (like Mormons) and offer
you handouts, but NEVER ask you for money. People can take lessons from
them as far as family values are concerned. Keep tickling your prostate.
Regards,
My my, arene we superiod tho. Hmm, let's see, I was going with a
Jehobah's witness, and she wanted me to convert - so I got all the info,
read it, and listened to the sales pitch. Didn't make a damn bit of
sense to me. That enough learning for you?
I've never had any Mormons visit me, but all I've met were mostly
nice people. Plenty of Jehovah's Witnesses tho, but none of 'em offered
my any thing except literature, and lots of talk, usually just when I
was in the middle of someting. I must have missed the signup for
handsouts part, do you think? I do have some Jehovah's Wittnesses as
neighbors, not bad people. Don'[t know about their family values, but
do know their kids all left home when they were about 18, so I suppose
that says something. Bottom line, Scientologists. Jehovah's Witnesses,
I don't believe in either's beliefs. But, they probably don't believe
in mine either, so that pretty much makes it all even.
So Upscale got a bit mixd up, no big deal. Before you start
calling people you don't even know names, just remember: Asshole is as
assholee does.
Support the ecology, eat recycled food and have a nice next life.
JOAT
Where does Batman buy gas for the Batmobile?
"George" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Which supports my case. Religion is not different than politics.
>> Differing
>> view/allegiances/beliefs, zealots, and human nature underlying it
>> all. It's
>> not religion, it's the people in religion. The multiplicity of
>> religion does not diminish the point. One religion or one hundred
>> thousand, it still
>> comes down to human nature. As I said in another post, remove
>> religion and
>> humans will still find a way to carry on their antics against one
>> another.
>>
>> Hell - just look at what goes on here in a usenet newsgroup.
>> Religion does
>> not even have to enter the picture. Look back over the past month of
>> posts.
>> You'll see plenty of human nature at work.
>>
>
> I think the psychobabble people call what you're doing "projection."
> You ascribe to others the same rigidity you're displaying. They
> believe, you believe. Where you differ, you expect them to become
> enlightened and accept your point of view. It's not about the facts,
> it's about truth, two very different things. Truth is the personal
> interpretation of the facts, and is often in conflict with them.
>
George,
I am usually in agreement with you, but WTF are you talking about? I've
tried to understand your response to Mike, but I'm kind of baffled as to
your meaning.
Hank
Don Fearn <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I think it was "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> who stated:
>
>>You might want to look up the word "apostacy" in a good dictionary.
>>If you're a Catholic and you decide to quit being a Catholic and
>>become, say, a Shinto, then you've committed apostacy, rejecting the
>>church to which you belong. If you were always a Shinto and stayed a
>>Shinto then there is no apostacy because you did not reject the
>>teachings of a church of which you were a member.
>
> So THAT's what I did when I stopped being Lutheran and took up with
> the Pastafarians (Bless His Noodly Appendage).
>
> I'm glad you told me about that -- ARRRRRR!
>
>
> -Don (wondering what this has to do with
> woodworking, but not worried 'bout it)
What made you think this is a woodworking forum? You can only ask so many
"what router should I buy", "left tilt or right tilt", "what project should
I start my son on", what's the best table, band, jig, miter, or circular
saw; state "Rigid and Ryobi sucks", you can't do decent work with a
Crapsman or (heaven forbid) anything from HF and answer the same.
Nah this is a forum for folks (and I am one of them) that can't get their
opinions or beliefs seen, read or heard anywhere else. Kind of like a
chamber for the insignificant.
I understand why the truly talented are declining to participate.
Hank
"Henry St.Pierre" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> George,
> I am usually in agreement with you, but WTF are you talking about? I've
> tried to understand your response to Mike, but I'm kind of baffled as to
> your meaning.
> Hank
Mike displays the intolerance toward other points of view - belief - that he
accuses others of. JWs, though they are extremely persistent in presenting
their beliefs, have never, in my experience belittled others for holding
contrary. Difference is positive proselytization versus negative
condemnation.
He's certainly not the only one to do this. Standard tactic to ascribe the
worst aspects of ones character to others, or to belittle with words like
"educate" them, as if they were ignorant. "Information" is raw data,
"education" is an interpretation, and belief still a third animal. That's
why it's important to get 'em young and limit their information base if you
want to manipulate them; it's the filter they'll use to interpret and frame
information they acquire the rest of their lives. How much nicer it would
be to let them learn there are limits and realities, learn respect and
responsibility rather than believe that the world began with and revolves
around them.
OBWW : Firm believer that manual skills like woodworking are great ways to
teach how to deal with the world. Wishes (or surrogates like the state or
lawyers) won't change what wood is or a machine can do, but the effort and
persistence required to get a project done can teach self-worth and
self-confidence better than creating a belittled class to feel superior to.
"George" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Which supports my case. Religion is not different than politics.
> > Differing
> > view/allegiances/beliefs, zealots, and human nature underlying it all.
> > It's
> > not religion, it's the people in religion. The multiplicity of religion
> > does not diminish the point. One religion or one hundred thousand, it
> > still
> > comes down to human nature. As I said in another post, remove religion
> > and
> > humans will still find a way to carry on their antics against one
another.
> >
> > Hell - just look at what goes on here in a usenet newsgroup. Religion
> > does
> > not even have to enter the picture. Look back over the past month of
> > posts.
> > You'll see plenty of human nature at work.
> >
>
> I think the psychobabble people call what you're doing "projection." You
> ascribe to others the same rigidity you're displaying. They believe, you
> believe. Where you differ, you expect them to become enlightened and
accept
> your point of view. It's not about the facts, it's about truth, two very
> different things. Truth is the personal interpretation of the facts, and
is
> often in conflict with them.
>
Now, that is psychobabble if ever it existed. What's rigid in what I wrote?
I simply said it's the people who cause problems, not institutions such as
religion. Nothing rigid in that. Nothing to project either. You seem to
be the one with the projector George.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Scott Lurndal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> writes:
> >
> >"Scott Lurndal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> writes:
> >
> >> >
> >> >So, if the actions of the individuals of an organization are merit for
> >> >dismissing the organization, you must really hate the human race...
> >>
> >> So are the actions of the individuals of the KKK (an organization)
> >> merit for dismissing that organization?
> >
> >That would be correct. It's the prinicples of the KKK that merit its
> >dismissal as an organization.
> >
> >>
> >> Religion is the biggest problem the world will face in the next
> >> century.
> >>
> >
> >Au contraire - there is absolutely nothing wrong with religion. It's the
> >people in the religions that are the problem. They are the same people
that
> >one finds in the human race. If it were not for religion, mankind would
> >simply find some other justification for those problems you foretell.
> >
>
> If there were only one religion, I'd be tempted to agree. However,
> there are multiple, fundamentally incompatible religions. So long as
> that is the case, religion will be the source of much strife. Everyone
> thinks that their religion is "revealed truth" and any other is apostacy.
>
Which supports my case. Religion is not different than politics. Differing
view/allegiances/beliefs, zealots, and human nature underlying it all. It's
not religion, it's the people in religion. The multiplicity of religion
does not diminish the point. One religion or one hundred thousand, it still
comes down to human nature. As I said in another post, remove religion and
humans will still find a way to carry on their antics against one another.
Hell - just look at what goes on here in a usenet newsgroup. Religion does
not even have to enter the picture. Look back over the past month of posts.
You'll see plenty of human nature at work.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"George" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Henry St.Pierre" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > George,
> > I am usually in agreement with you, but WTF are you talking about? I've
> > tried to understand your response to Mike, but I'm kind of baffled as to
> > your meaning.
> > Hank
>
> Mike displays the intolerance toward other points of view - belief - that
he
> accuses others of. JWs, though they are extremely persistent in
presenting
> their beliefs, have never, in my experience belittled others for holding
> contrary. Difference is positive proselytization versus negative
> condemnation.
For the love of Pete George, kindly show me where I demonstrated *any*
intolerance of the JW's. Go back and re-read my input to this thread and
point out to me where I was in any way intolerant of their beliefs, or
belittling of them. I steadfastly disagree with the principles of their
faith, having spend about a year and a half studying their beliefs,
investigating them and participating in them. I think the projection you
referenced earlier was on your part.
>
> He's certainly not the only one to do this. Standard tactic to ascribe
the
> worst aspects of ones character to others, or to belittle with words like
> "educate" them, as if they were ignorant. "Information" is raw data,
> "education" is an interpretation, and belief still a third animal.
That's
> why it's important to get 'em young and limit their information base if
you
> want to manipulate them; it's the filter they'll use to interpret and
frame
> information they acquire the rest of their lives. How much nicer it would
> be to let them learn there are limits and realities, learn respect and
> responsibility rather than believe that the world began with and revolves
> around them.
>
Now - I was the one who stated that Upscale and the immediate "agree'ers" to
his initial position, might have been off base. I was the one who suggested
that *perhaps* the JW reaction to him being in a wheelchair might just have
nothing at all to do with what he could contribute to them, but might simply
have been the indication that they were indeed at the wrong house - perhaps
expecting that the person they were supposed to talk with was not wheelchair
bound. You find a problem with that?
> OBWW : Firm believer that manual skills like woodworking are great ways to
> teach how to deal with the world. Wishes (or surrogates like the state or
> lawyers) won't change what wood is or a machine can do, but the effort and
> persistence required to get a project done can teach self-worth and
> self-confidence better than creating a belittled class to feel superior
to.
>
Not sure how this applies at all. But then, I asked you directly how I had
in any way been guilty of your accusations and you chose not to respond to
that request. Instead for the second time, you have accused me of something
I still do not understand. You are rapidly losing credibility with me
George.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Scott Lurndal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> writes:
> >
> >So, if the actions of the individuals of an organization are merit for
> >dismissing the organization, you must really hate the human race...
>
> So are the actions of the individuals of the KKK (an organization)
> merit for dismissing that organization?
That would be correct. It's the prinicples of the KKK that merit its
dismissal as an organization.
>
> Religion is the biggest problem the world will face in the next
> century.
>
Au contraire - there is absolutely nothing wrong with religion. It's the
people in the religions that are the problem. They are the same people that
one finds in the human race. If it were not for religion, mankind would
simply find some other justification for those problems you foretell.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Wed, Dec 13, 2006, 2:17pm [email protected] (Mike=A0Marlow) doth
sayeth:
That would be correct. It's the prinicples of the KKK that merit its
dismissal as an organization.<snip>
You might want to read about some of the history of the KKK.
http://www.iupui.edu/~aao/kkk.html Here is a partial quote of the very
beginnings. Probably nowhere near what you thought.
In fact the beginning of the Klan involved nothing so sinister,
subversive or ancient as the theories supposed. It
was the boredom of small-town life that led six young Confederate
veterans to gather around a fireplace one
December evening in 1865 and form a social club. The place was Pulaski,
Tennessee, near the Alabama border.
When they reassembled a week later, the six young men were full of ideas
for their new society. It would be secret, to heighten the amusement of
the thing, and the titles for the various officers were to have names as
preposterous-sounding as possible, partly for the fun of it and partly
to avoid any military or political implications.
JOAT
Where does Batman buy gas for the Batmobile?
On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 20:54:21 +0000, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> writes:
>>
>>"Scott Lurndal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> writes:
>>
>>> >
>>> >So, if the actions of the individuals of an organization are merit for
>>> >dismissing the organization, you must really hate the human race...
>>>
>>> So are the actions of the individuals of the KKK (an organization)
>>> merit for dismissing that organization?
>>
>>That would be correct. It's the prinicples of the KKK that merit its
>>dismissal as an organization.
>>
>>>
>>> Religion is the biggest problem the world will face in the next
>>> century.
>>>
>>
>>Au contraire - there is absolutely nothing wrong with religion. It's the
>>people in the religions that are the problem. They are the same people that
>>one finds in the human race. If it were not for religion, mankind would
>>simply find some other justification for those problems you foretell.
>>
>
> If there were only one religion, I'd be tempted to agree. However,
> there are multiple, fundamentally incompatible religions. So long as
> that is the case, religion will be the source of much strife. Everyone
> thinks that their religion is "revealed truth" and any other is
> apostacy.
You might want to look up the word "apostacy" in a good dictionary. If
you're a Catholic and you decide to quit being a Catholic and become, say,
a Shinto, then you've committed apostacy, rejecting the church to which
you belong. If you were always a Shinto and stayed a
Shinto then there is no apostacy because you did not reject the teachings
of a church of which you were a member.
Believing that you have revealed truth and believing that you have a right
to impose that truth on others are two different things. Some religions
try to do that, others don't.
As for "religion" being the source of much strife, it is not religion, but
the "if you're not with us you're the enemy" attitude that one sees all
over the Internet in regard to matters unrelated to religion--look at all
the "Mac vs PC", "Linux vs the Windows", "gun control" and "Bush vs
anybody who doesn't like Bush" discussions in which reason is abandoned
early on. The only difference between them and Osama vs anybody who
doesn't practice his own particular loony-tune version of Islam is that
they for the most part don't have the skills or the balls to kill the
people who disagree with them.
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:13:42 -0600, Don Fearn wrote:
> I think it was "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> who stated:
>
>>You might want to look up the word "apostacy" in a good dictionary. If
>>you're a Catholic and you decide to quit being a Catholic and become, say,
>>a Shinto, then you've committed apostacy, rejecting the church to which
>>you belong. If you were always a Shinto and stayed a
>>Shinto then there is no apostacy because you did not reject the teachings
>>of a church of which you were a member.
>
> So THAT's what I did when I stopped being Lutheran and took up with
> the Pastafarians (Bless His Noodly Appendage).
>
> I'm glad you told me about that -- ARRRRRR!
>
>
> -Don (wondering what this has to do with
> woodworking, but not worried 'bout it)
Well, think of all those woodworkers who would be out of jobs without
church pews and altars and Japanese temples and the like to build.
Besides, I believe that Christianity is the only religion whose deity ever
worked as a carpenter.
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
I think it was "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> who stated:
>You might want to look up the word "apostacy" in a good dictionary. If
>you're a Catholic and you decide to quit being a Catholic and become, say,
>a Shinto, then you've committed apostacy, rejecting the church to which
>you belong. If you were always a Shinto and stayed a
>Shinto then there is no apostacy because you did not reject the teachings
>of a church of which you were a member.
So THAT's what I did when I stopped being Lutheran and took up with
the Pastafarians (Bless His Noodly Appendage).
I'm glad you told me about that -- ARRRRRR!
-Don (wondering what this has to do with
woodworking, but not worried 'bout it)
--
"Trust me, there is NO way to nonchalantly conceal the fact that you have a
power tool in your head, no matter what you do." -- El Gato
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>"J T" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>>
>> So you can't contribute? What happens then when one of 'em gets
>> sick, and needs support? They kick their asses out, or just take 'em on
>> to the back forty, shoot 'em, and bury 'em? Doesn't make sense. So Tom
>> Cruise joined them? I thought he'd just gone nuts. Maybe the same
>> thing.
>>
>
>Maybe when they saw Upscale in a wheel chair they really meant that they
>must be at the wrong door - maybe the person they were looking for was not
>wheelchair bound.
>
>> Those are only part of the reasons I don't believe in religion.
>> And the Woodworking Gods are with me 100% on that..
>>
>
>So, if the actions of the individuals of an organization are merit for
>dismissing the organization, you must really hate the human race...
So are the actions of the individuals of the KKK (an organization)
merit for dismissing that organization?
Religion is the biggest problem the world will face in the next
century.
scott
"Leon" wrote in message
> Are you sure you are not mistaking that place for Arkansas? My nephew
> works in Arkansas getting land owners to sign gas lease contracts. Sounds
> like the same bunch of people. ;~)
LOL ... now that you mention it, the same lack of educational materials and
condiments.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/29/06
On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 20:36:19 -0600, "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>George Max (in [email protected]) said:
>
>| Being a Mormon could be kinda fun if you get to have multiple wives.
>| ;)
>
>Someone once told me that the Chinese ideograph for "trouble" is two
>women under one roof.
I've lived long enough to understand that the path to happiness
involves the fewest number of possible women.
Regards,
Tom Watson
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
"J T" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
My tale is a bit funnier. My shop is small, so I normally leave
the double doors open. Ear muffs on, dust mask, face shield, table saw
going. Notice movement out of the corner of my eye. Here's a well
dressed couple, and and women. The woman's bounding up and down waving
her hand, practilly jumping clear of the ground. No telling how long
they'd been there. You can guess where this's going. Shut the saw off,
unmask, muffs off. "Can I help you?", I ask.
Jehovah's Witnesses. LOL I politely told them to get lost. It's
always fun, when you're in the right mood, with nothing better to do, to
bring out a chair, and sit and listen to them. NOT invite them in, not
bring out chairs for them, just sit and listen to them. For some reason
they never visit me anymore. LMAO
I like the people that see my garage door open, stop in front of my driveway
and honk their horns so that "I" can walk out there and give them
directions. One lady got pissed when I did not get out there fast enough.
She got the wrong directions.
Tue, Dec 12, 2006, 1:42pm (EST+5) [email protected] (Leon)
doth recall:
I like the people that see my garage door open, stop in front of my
driveway and honk their horns so that "I" can walk out there and give
them directions. One lady got pissed when I did not get out there fast
enough. She got the wrong directions.
I'd have to be in a damned good mood to walk out in a case like
that. It'd be more like me to turn around, wave, and go back to what I
was doing.
JOAT
Where does Batman buy gas for the Batmobile?
On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 01:40:17 -0500, Bill in Detroit <[email protected]>
wrote:
>George Max wrote:
>> On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 07:58:04 -0500, "Upscale" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "Par" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> into the recipients urethra and creative uses of rodents, and the JWs
>>>> left hurridly.
>>> I've got it easier than that. As soon as they see that I'm in a wheelchair,
>>> they apologise for knocking on the wrong door. Up until the first time that
>>> happened, I never realized how prejudicial they are.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The JW care about such things? So much for their Christian values.
>
>George, you would pass judgment on over 6 million people on the
>testimony of one man whom you've likely never met and most likely never
>will?
>
>Bill
>
Oh? Is there another way to take that? They see a guy in a
wheelchair and leave because of it? True, I'm taking the posters word
and interpretation of the situation at face value, but as you point
out, I was not there nor will I ever meet him. What else is there to
go on?
So, at face value, the JWs leaving solely because the guy is in a
wheelchair isn't a nice thing to do and doesn't reflect well upon
them.
When the JWs come to my house, they'd talk my ear off if I'd let them.
But I'm not in a wheelchair and hope to never be.
I will give this to the JWs - they can take no for an answer. I
really do respect the politeness they've demonstrated to me.
On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 11:22:30 -0500, "Upscale" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"George Max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >
>> >I've got it easier than that. As soon as they see that I'm in a
>wheelchair,
>> >they apologise for knocking on the wrong door. Up until the first time
>that
>> >happened, I never realized how prejudicial they are.
>> >
>> The JW care about such things? So much for their Christian values.
>
>I believe they're only interested in people that can contribute to their
>organization and don't have anything to do with people who they believe
>might need some form of support. They must have been jumping with joyful
>bliss when they got their hooks into Tom Cruise.
>
I think Tom Cruise is a member of the Church of Scientology, not the
JW.
J T wrote:
> Jehovah's Witnesses. LOL I politely told them to get lost. It's
> always fun, when you're in the right mood, with nothing better to do, to
> bring out a chair, and sit and listen to them. NOT invite them in, not
> bring out chairs for them, just sit and listen to them. For some reason
> they never visit me anymore. LMAO
It reminds me of the time I was putting a new exhaust system on one of
my cars. I had the car in the driveway on jack stands while I was
laying under it mounting the muffler. A group of JW's approached and
asked if I was busy??? I told them "No, I'm just under here trying to
get out of the sun." They proceeded to give me their "sales pitch".
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
On 14 Dec 2006 00:00:08 GMT, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I believe I've told the story of Mustafa here before, but people seem to
>like it so I'll repeat it.
>
>At one time I was an active target shooter. A friend and I had planned a
>day at the range. As soon as we got set up, it started to rain. Hard.
>One of those rains where the targets turned to mush and you couldn't see
>them from the line anyway. So we decided to hang it up and went home.
>On the way to the parking area I slipped in the mud. At the time I had
>hair down to my ass, beard, etc, most of it not very well maintained.
>
>We got to my place, he went in first, I went after, bringing both our
>armamentariums for the purpose of cleaning them. I closed the door, took
>three steps, and there came the dreaded knock. I turned, and opened the
>door, mud from head to toe, bearded, long haired, unkempt, not in a
>particularly good mood, and festooned with a small arsenal. It was the
>Witnesses. For some reason the Muse was upon me that day and I turned and
>yelled in a mock Middle Eastern accent toward the back of the apartment
>"Hey, Mus-ta-FA, want to discuss religion with the infidel?" I turned
>around. There was a shoe.
>
>Didn't see another JW again until I had moved to another state halfway
>across the country.
OMG! That's SO funny! Thanks.
"Upscale" wrote in message
> I believe they're only interested in people that can contribute to their
> organization and don't have anything to do with people who they believe
> might need some form of support. They must have been jumping with joyful
> bliss when they got their hooks into Tom Cruise.
I am sure there is a bell curve of both the good and the bad, as in any
organization, religious or otherwise. I dated a girl who was JW back in my
youth and one could only wish that there were more upstanding families like
those particular folks around in this day and age.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/29/06
On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:50:30 -0500, "Upscale" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"George Max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> I think Tom Cruise is a member of the Church of Scientology, not the
>> JW.
>
>Yes, you're right. I had Church of Scientology on my mind because I remember
>going into one of their buildings near where I live and asking if I could
>use their phone and was promptly refused.
>
Very helpful of them.
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (J T) wrote:
>Mon, Dec 11, 2006, 9:04pm [email protected] (Tom=A0Watson) doth
>lament:
>Bindlestiff: <snip of a sad tale>
>
> My tale is a bit funnier. My shop is small, so I normally leave
>the double doors open. Ear muffs on, dust mask, face shield, table saw
>going. Notice movement out of the corner of my eye. Here's a well
>dressed couple, and and women. The woman's bounding up and down waving
>her hand, practilly jumping clear of the ground. No telling how long
>they'd been there. You can guess where this's going. Shut the saw off,
>unmask, muffs off. "Can I help you?", I ask.
>
> Jehovah's Witnesses. LOL I politely told them to get lost. It's
>always fun, when you're in the right mood, with nothing better to do, to
>bring out a chair, and sit and listen to them. NOT invite them in, not
>bring out chairs for them, just sit and listen to them. For some reason
>they never visit me anymore. LMAO
Ahh, yes, the good old JWs. They usually don't stick around long after we tell
them we're Roman Catholic. At our previous house, the crucifix (hand-carved by
my FIL, by the way -- obligatory woodworking content) hanging on the living
room wall was clearly visible from the front door. Their visits were typically
very, very short.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
Tue, Dec 12, 2006, 5:07pm (EST+5) [email protected] (Doug=A0Miller)
dot sayeth:
Ahh, yes, the good old JWs. They usually don't stick around long after
we tell them we're Roman Catholic. At our previous house, the crucifix
(hand-carved by my FIL, by the way -- obligatory woodworking content)
hanging on the living room wall was clearly visible from the front door.
Their visits were typically very, very short.
Always good info to hav. Crosses are a defense against vampires
and Jehovah's Witnesses. LOL I suppose if you don't have a cross this
would be your best alternative.
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2006/07/jehovahdogSolent_450x334.jpg
JOAT
Where does Batman buy gas for the Batmobile?
J T <[email protected]>:
> Jehovah's Witnesses. LOL I politely told them to get lost. It's
> always fun, when you're in the right mood, with nothing better to do, to
> bring out a chair, and sit and listen to them. NOT invite them in, not
> bring out chairs for them, just sit and listen to them. For some reason
> they never visit me anymore. LMAO
One of the best I've ever heard was opening the door while a roleplaying
gang in the livning room (not seen from the door, but heard) was
discussing how to torture someone for vital information. The the gang
was all discussing the relative merits of inserting a red hot dagger
into the recipients urethra and creative uses of rodents, and the JWs
left hurridly.
/Par
--
Par [email protected]
Mind Like A Steel Trap - Rusty And Illegal In 37 States
Upscale <[email protected]>:
>
> "Par" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > into the recipients urethra and creative uses of rodents, and the JWs
> > left hurridly.
>
> I've got it easier than that. As soon as they see that I'm in a wheelchair,
> they apologise for knocking on the wrong door. Up until the first time that
> happened, I never realized how prejudicial they are.
Aren't they one of the sects that belive that physical problems stems
from sins, and to be wheelchairbound...
/Par
--
Par [email protected]
Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from
religious conviction.
-- Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
"J T" wrote in message
Mon, Dec 11, 2006, 9:04pm (Tom Watson) doth
lament:
Bindlestiff: <snip of a sad tale>
>>Jehovah's Witnesses. LOL I politely told them to get lost. It's
always fun, when you're in the right mood, with nothing better to do, to
bring out a chair, and sit and listen to them. NOT invite them in, not
bring out chairs for them, just sit and listen to them. For some reason
they never visit me anymore. LMAO<<
A personal anecdote about the sheer persistence of Jehovah's Witnesses that
gained my grudging respect:
In my varied careers, and at one point, it was my job to visit villages
along the coastline of Western Papua New Guinea and
try to convince the natives to leave our seismograph crew's offshore Shoran
navigation buoys alone.
Many of these natives had seen only a handful of white men and some were not
too friendly (it was shortly after Rockefeller's son disappeared, and I was
instructed to be on the lookout for signs of him).
I tried to search out the headman in each village (you could usually tell
him by the ballpoint pen in his sari or loincloth) and we generally ended up
in his hooch negotiating the terms of payment to leave our buoys alone.
In many cases, in this wild, uncharted at the time, coastline, very
difficult to access and visited by only the hardiest, most persistent and
arduous journey, I would find, by the presence of WatchTower tracts in the
headman's hooch, that the Jehovah Witnesses had just been there before me.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/29/06
"DonkeyHody" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> My problem is that she, like most people, really have no concept of the
> amount of time and effort that goes into producing something like that.
> I'm sure she would have been willing to pay a "reasonable" price for
> such an item, but I'm not willing to part with them for a reasonable
> sum. A "reasonable" sum wouldn't pay the heating bill for my shop,
> much less buy the wood or give me any wages at all for my time. I know
> I'm overstating, but you know what I mean.
>
> How do you folks handle these situations?
I have a simple rule. You can't buy anything from me. I'll either make it
for you for free, or you don't get one. Don't ask either. It is my
decision alone (well, maybe with my wife at times) as to who gets what.
This year I'm making cutting boards. ($25 in material and about 1.5 hours)
I'll be finishing up five of them later today. Two are going to people that
we do exchange gifts with, the others have just been chosen for one reason
or another. Last year it was routed trivets, the year before it was simple
cooking tools, like a spatula. I made a couple dozen of them.
Disclaimer. Offer me $750 apiece and the cutting boards will be on the way
to you FedEx tomorrow morning. I do have a price, it is not a low one
though. I may be crazy, but I'm not stupid.
In article <[email protected]>,
Steve knight <[email protected]> wrote:
>I had a package due yesterday and I was thinking it was FedEx and they
>did not show. Well today I had another one and the first one I found
>was going UPS. Well UPS does not show and I check the status of the
>package and I see that the business was closed because of the holiday.
>But that's bull because the business (me was open all day and the roll
>up door was wide open) they did not leave the usual we missed you tag
>or anything. So one package they did not attempt to deliver for two
>days and the second they skipped today.
> So what they really did was choose not to even try to deliver the
>package at all. I called and they will make sure they are delivered
>Tuesday but I needed those items and now I have to wait till Tuesday
>to get them.
Steve, I know it is often difficult to get a vendor to use a different
shipper than the one they normally do. As a long time USPS employee, I
hope that you ship your own products by US Mail!
--
When the game is over, the pawn and the king are returned to the same box.
Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - [email protected]
Andy <[email protected]>:
> I went with the mass-for-stability tactic on the bed I recently made -
> lots of solid white oak. Each of the side rails alone weighs about 30
> pounds. That can take some serious bumps without so much as a squeak
> (no more mental image fodder intended...)
Go for the techiques used by the vibration free instruments crowd: very
heavy surface, on rubber pads (I've even seen a setup lifted by
compressed air jets, but that might disturb your sleep). So, for a bed
an 1 ton marble slab should work, laid down on top of umpteen rubber
pads. Add normal bed parts on top. Don't forget to add felt pads
underneath, or there might be some slight marking of soft wood floors.
/Par
--
Par [email protected]
Dawkins is the prototypical evangelical fundamentalist atheist
-- Nix
I think it was "DonkeyHody" <[email protected]> who stated:
>"Cast not thy pearls before the swine, lest they trample them underfoot
>and turn to gore thee."
[snip happens]
>My problem is that she, like most people, really have no concept of the
>amount of time and effort that goes into producing something like that.
> I'm sure she would have been willing to pay a "reasonable" price for
>such an item, but I'm not willing to part with them for a reasonable
>sum. A "reasonable" sum wouldn't pay the heating bill for my shop,
>much less buy the wood or give me any wages at all for my time. I know
>I'm overstating, but you know what I mean.
>
>How do you folks handle these situations?
I've had similar situations twice. I bartered.
The first time, I had made a skein winder that winds the yarn when it
comes off my wife's spinning wheel and one of her spinning friends
wanted one JUST like it. I had made it from leftovers from a cherry
bed I had made, and I had enough wood and some time, so I said,
tentatively, that I could, but I had NO idea how much to charge.
As we talked, it sounded like the amount of time for the skein winder
would be about the same amount of time she takes to spin and knit a
shawl, and I had coveted my wife's wool shawl, so in exchange for the
cherry winder I made for her, I got a warm gray wool shawl, which I'm
wearing as I type (it's chilly down here where the computer is this
time of year).
The second time one of my wife's friends coveted something I had made
for her, I was ready, so I exchanged a cherry niddy-noddy for warm
wool sox.
I don't know if I'll do anything like that again. I wouldn't even
consider making anything for sale; woodworking is a hobby to relieve
stress and once in a while make something that pleases me because it's
unique and maybe special . . . .
-Don
--
"Trust me, there is NO way to nonchalantly conceal the fact that you have a
power tool in your head, no matter what you do." -- El Gato
On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 10:33:31 -0800, "Steve B" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Things exchanged among friends for barter can't be converted to money. So
>long that each person thinks it's fair and it doesn't end up that you're
>doing work every week on stuff you'd rather not fool with. I do know that
>when I offer to do work for barter, the other person will trade more than I
>would have asked for if I were the one to set the parameters on the deal.
A little addition to this, and my previous comments-
While some things can't be bought at any price, I usually bend over
backwards to help out someone who is willing to learn something about
making what they want, even if I lose money in the bargin. Same thing
goes for barter, as you noted above.
>Just my experiences.
>
>Steve
>
On 10 Dec 2006 05:43:10 -0800, "DonkeyHody" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>My problem is that she, like most people, really have no concept of the
>amount of time and effort that goes into producing something like that.
> I'm sure she would have been willing to pay a "reasonable" price for
>such an item, but I'm not willing to part with them for a reasonable
>sum. A "reasonable" sum wouldn't pay the heating bill for my shop,
>much less buy the wood or give me any wages at all for my time. I know
>I'm overstating, but you know what I mean.
A common enough situation, unfortunately.
>How do you folks handle these situations?
In a word, I just tell any unsolicited "customer" that I don't sell
anything to anyone, it's just for my enjoyment. When I see something
that I wouldn't mind doing for either the challenge of it or to help
someone out with a specific problem, then I offer to make it, and
charge a low sum for my time.
The short answer is, you just have to say no- and if they get mad,
that's their problem. People have to learn that some things are just
not for sale at any price, especially in our culture.
Problems with the shipper are usually the sender's issue, since they
contracted with the shipper for a specific delivery schedule. Have
you tried contacting the sender? Perhaps you could request a rebate
of the shipping costs, since the shipper did not honor their contract.
That also sends a message to the sender about the quality of their
choice in shippers.