BA

Bay Area Dave

16/01/2004 6:44 AM

Do you round off tenons to fit routered mortises or chop the corners off?

I tried to make loose 3/8" tenons with rounded corners and realized I'd
have to buy a pricey bit for each radius to make them easily on the
router table. I thought I could just use my 3/8" roundover bit. Didn't
realize that it has a straight portion on the profile...

Do you guys chop out the mortises rounded ends or what's your pleasure?
do those little gadgets for chiseling corners work? I saw 4 different
kinds at a WW show and couldn't see how you locate it over the work
precisely. And how deep do they go? Is it far better to have a chisel
narrow enough to chop down the end of the mortise? If I'm only going to
CLEAN a mortise, but not create it with a chisel, do I buy a different
chisel type than a mortising chisel?

I want to do mortising the easiest way (read fast) and accurate, without
buying expensive dedicated tools. Am I going in the right direction to
consider using upcut spiral bits in the router table, clean out the ends
and either make a tenon or make 2 mortises and make loose tenons?
There's lots of choices but I just feel there has to be a "best" way.

Thanks, as always!

dave


This topic has 29 replies

lL

[email protected] (Lawrence Wasserman)

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 6:44 AM

16/01/2004 4:52 PM

In article <YtUNb.4955$iI2.2322@lakeread03>,
Mitch Berkson <mitch-at-bermita.com> wrote:
>Bri wrote:
>> I thought this FWW video tip looked interesting. As usual they make
>> it look easy. Haven't tried it myself yet but I will.
>> http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/wvt051.asp
>
>In the video, he makes the tenon 1/16" short to allow for wood movement.
>Why would the tenon be moving at a different rate than the mortised pieces?
>
>Mitch Berkson
>
>
>

I've always seen the reason for cutting the tenon slightly short is so
that glue has somewhere to go, and by the way, imagine the consequences
if the tenon was just a little too long instead of a little too short. But,
the tennoned piece IS at right angle to the morticed piece, so in the
normal M&T, the mortised piece will "move" parrallel to the tenon
direction, while the tenon itself, will not.
--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
[email protected]

BA

Bay Area Dave

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 6:44 AM

16/01/2004 7:45 PM

thanks, George.

dave

George wrote:

> Ah, but you can get "bead" profiles that double as bullnose.
>
> Note that if you are using loose tenons of good hardwood, you only need one
> size, ever. 3/8 of hardwood won't ever shear, and will glue in anywhere.
>
> "Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>I looked in the router bit catalogs and figured that the bullnose bit
>>(once again as George pointed out) would work, but geez, at almost $50 a
>>copy I need a cheaper alternative. Little roundovers would be about a
>>fifth that price.
>
>
>

Bb

"Brian"

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 6:44 AM

16/01/2004 12:40 PM

Bevelling the corners is fine. Don't need to round 'em.


"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I tried to make loose 3/8" tenons with rounded corners and realized I'd
> have to buy a pricey bit for each radius to make them easily on the
> router table. I thought I could just use my 3/8" roundover bit. Didn't
> realize that it has a straight portion on the profile...
>
> Do you guys chop out the mortises rounded ends or what's your pleasure?
> do those little gadgets for chiseling corners work? I saw 4 different
> kinds at a WW show and couldn't see how you locate it over the work
> precisely. And how deep do they go? Is it far better to have a chisel
> narrow enough to chop down the end of the mortise? If I'm only going to
> CLEAN a mortise, but not create it with a chisel, do I buy a different
> chisel type than a mortising chisel?
>
> I want to do mortising the easiest way (read fast) and accurate, without
> buying expensive dedicated tools. Am I going in the right direction to
> consider using upcut spiral bits in the router table, clean out the ends
> and either make a tenon or make 2 mortises and make loose tenons?
> There's lots of choices but I just feel there has to be a "best" way.
>
> Thanks, as always!
>
> dave
>

tT

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 6:44 AM

16/01/2004 7:18 AM

Well, I just cut the profile with a "cordless" saw, and chisel the tenons down
to the shoulders. Tom
>Subject: Do you round off tenons
to fit routered mortises or chop the corners
>From: Bay Area Dave [email protected]
>Date: 01/15/2004 11:44 PM US Mountain Standard Time
>Message-id: <[email protected]>
>
>I tried to make loose 3/8" tenons with rounded corners and realized I'd
>have to buy a pricey bit for each radius to make them easily on the
>router table. I thought I could just use my 3/8" roundover bit. Didn't
>realize that it has a straight portion on the profile...
>
>Do you guys chop out the mortises rounded ends or what's your pleasure?
> do those little gadgets for chiseling corners work? I saw 4 different
>kinds at a WW show and couldn't see how you locate it over the work
>precisely. And how deep do they go? Is it far better to have a chisel
>narrow enough to chop down the end of the mortise? If I'm only going to
>CLEAN a mortise, but not create it with a chisel, do I buy a different
>chisel type than a mortising chisel?
>
>I want to do mortising the easiest way (read fast) and accurate, without
>buying expensive dedicated tools. Am I going in the right direction to
>consider using upcut spiral bits in the router table, clean out the ends
>and either make a tenon or make 2 mortises and make loose tenons?
>There's lots of choices but I just feel there has to be a "best" way.
>
>Thanks, as always!
>
>dave

Someday, it'll all be over....

Gs

"George"

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 6:44 AM

16/01/2004 6:11 AM

Ah yes, radius versus diameter bite you?

Proponents of loose tenons normally advocate the full bullnose bit, rather
than 1/4 round. Then you just bullnose both sides of a bunch of tenon stock
at leisure and chopsaw what is required, as required. Use a fence to
support the outfeed.

I've got a benchtop mortiser, but when I didn't, I chiseled square mortises.

"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I tried to make loose 3/8" tenons with rounded corners and realized I'd
> have to buy a pricey bit for each radius to make them easily on the
> router table. I thought I could just use my 3/8" roundover bit. Didn't
> realize that it has a straight portion on the profile...
>
> Do you guys chop out the mortises rounded ends or what's your pleasure?

LH

"Lowell Holmes"

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 6:44 AM

16/01/2004 8:20 AM

Hey Dave,

Get yourself a gouge with close to the proper radius and round the tenons
with the concave side towards the corner you are rounding. It works great.
I've never seen anyone else suggest this, but I'm sure I'm not the first.

Kelley Mehler uses a segment of a sanding belt like a shoeshine rag to round
the edges. That works great too.

"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I tried to make loose 3/8" tenons with rounded corners and realized I'd
> have to buy a pricey bit for each radius to make them easily on the
> router table. I thought I could just use my 3/8" roundover bit. Didn't
> realize that it has a straight portion on the profile...
>
> Do you guys chop out the mortises rounded ends or what's your pleasure?
> do those little gadgets for chiseling corners work? I saw 4 different
> kinds at a WW show and couldn't see how you locate it over the work
> precisely. And how deep do they go? Is it far better to have a chisel
> narrow enough to chop down the end of the mortise? If I'm only going to
> CLEAN a mortise, but not create it with a chisel, do I buy a different
> chisel type than a mortising chisel?
>
> I want to do mortising the easiest way (read fast) and accurate, without
> buying expensive dedicated tools. Am I going in the right direction to
> consider using upcut spiral bits in the router table, clean out the ends
> and either make a tenon or make 2 mortises and make loose tenons?
> There's lots of choices but I just feel there has to be a "best" way.
>
> Thanks, as always!
>
> dave
>

Gs

"George"

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 6:44 AM

16/01/2004 11:17 AM

Ah, but you can get "bead" profiles that double as bullnose.

Note that if you are using loose tenons of good hardwood, you only need one
size, ever. 3/8 of hardwood won't ever shear, and will glue in anywhere.

"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I looked in the router bit catalogs and figured that the bullnose bit
> (once again as George pointed out) would work, but geez, at almost $50 a
> copy I need a cheaper alternative. Little roundovers would be about a
> fifth that price.

Nw

"Noons"

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 6:44 AM

17/01/2004 4:05 AM

I don't think it's to allow for wood movement.
It's to allow glue squeeze-out to have
somewhere to go.


--
Cheers
Nuno Souto
[email protected]
"Mitch Berkson" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:YtUNb.4955$iI2.2322@lakeread03...
> Bri wrote:
>
> In the video, he makes the tenon 1/16" short to allow for wood movement.
> Why would the tenon be moving at a different rate than the mortised pieces?
>

Nw

"Noons"

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 6:44 AM

17/01/2004 8:05 PM

Er...
Right angle grain is not cross grain. That is a common mistake.
What is cross grain is when you have end grain against
long grain. As in the *end* of the tenon against the bottom of
the mortice. Long grain against long grain, which is what
a M-T join mostly is, is never a problem. Or else M-T would not
be a strong join. And it is one of the strongest.

--
Cheers
Nuno Souto
[email protected]
"jev" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> The tenon and mortise move at different rates cuz you have a cross
> grain joint - the grainruns at right angles to each other for the
> tenon and the mortise. So he leaves the width a 1/16 short on the
> tenon for wood movement and the length of the tenon a bit short for
> glue space. Of course, having the tenon width short also gives glue
> somewhere to go.

Nw

"Noons"

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 6:44 AM

18/01/2004 7:31 PM

No. It's the same everywhere. Short grain is the end-grain.
Long grain is along the grain.

You must NOT glue short grain to long grain.
Nor short grain to short grain. It won't work.

But you can glue long grain flat to long grain, at any
angle you may care. That's how M-T works, how lapped
joints work, how virtually every wood glue-based join works.

Think about it, you'll see what I mean.

--
Cheers
Nuno Souto
[email protected]
"Larry Blanchard" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >
> Er.... Huh???
>
> I guess they really do think differently in Oz :-).
>
> --

wB

[email protected] (Bill Hodgson)

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 6:44 AM

16/01/2004 7:43 AM

Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I tried to make loose 3/8" tenons with rounded corners and realized I'd
> have to buy a pricey bit for each radius to make them easily on the
> router table. I thought I could just use my 3/8" roundover bit. Didn't
> realize that it has a straight portion on the profile...
>
> Do you guys chop out the mortises rounded ends or what's your pleasure?
> do those little gadgets for chiseling corners work? I saw 4 different
> kinds at a WW show and couldn't see how you locate it over the work
> precisely. And how deep do they go? Is it far better to have a chisel
> narrow enough to chop down the end of the mortise? If I'm only going to
> CLEAN a mortise, but not create it with a chisel, do I buy a different
> chisel type than a mortising chisel?
>
> I want to do mortising the easiest way (read fast) and accurate, without
> buying expensive dedicated tools. Am I going in the right direction to
> consider using upcut spiral bits in the router table, clean out the ends
> and either make a tenon or make 2 mortises and make loose tenons?
> There's lots of choices but I just feel there has to be a "best" way.
>
> Thanks, as always!
>
> dave

I haven't made any yet myself, but when David marks makes his loose
tenons he uses a roundover bit that is 1/2 the the thickness of the
mortice. So for your 3/8" mortice, you would use a 3/16" radius
roundover to make the tenons. That particular bit isn't very pricey
and you'll have it for a long time.
Bill

jj

jev

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 6:44 AM

16/01/2004 1:17 PM

The tenon and mortise move at different rates cuz you have a cross
grain joint - the grainruns at right angles to each other for the
tenon and the mortise. So he leaves the width a 1/16 short on the
tenon for wood movement and the length of the tenon a bit short for
glue space. Of course, having the tenon width short also gives glue
somewhere to go.

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:40:23 -0500, "Mitch Berkson"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Bri wrote:
>> I thought this FWW video tip looked interesting. As usual they make
>> it look easy. Haven't tried it myself yet but I will.
>> http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/wvt051.asp
>
>In the video, he makes the tenon 1/16" short to allow for wood movement.
>Why would the tenon be moving at a different rate than the mortised pieces?
>
>Mitch Berkson
>
>

BA

Bay Area Dave

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 6:44 AM

16/01/2004 3:54 PM

thanks, Bill. George also mentioned that. I was so "sure" that I'd need
to use a 3/8" round over to make the profile for the loose tenon to fit
a 3/8" mortise! I expected to align it carefully with the work piece,
make a cut, and then turn it over and rout the other side. What I got
for my effort was a torpedo shaped profile.

I looked in the router bit catalogs and figured that the bullnose bit
(once again as George pointed out) would work, but geez, at almost $50 a
copy I need a cheaper alternative. Little roundovers would be about a
fifth that price.

dave

Bill Hodgson wrote:

> Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
>>I tried to make loose 3/8" tenons with rounded corners and realized I'd
>>have to buy a pricey bit for each radius to make them easily on the
>>router table. I thought I could just use my 3/8" roundover bit. Didn't
>>realize that it has a straight portion on the profile...
>>
>>Do you guys chop out the mortises rounded ends or what's your pleasure?
>> do those little gadgets for chiseling corners work? I saw 4 different
>>kinds at a WW show and couldn't see how you locate it over the work
>>precisely. And how deep do they go? Is it far better to have a chisel
>>narrow enough to chop down the end of the mortise? If I'm only going to
>>CLEAN a mortise, but not create it with a chisel, do I buy a different
>>chisel type than a mortising chisel?
>>
>>I want to do mortising the easiest way (read fast) and accurate, without
>>buying expensive dedicated tools. Am I going in the right direction to
>>consider using upcut spiral bits in the router table, clean out the ends
>>and either make a tenon or make 2 mortises and make loose tenons?
>>There's lots of choices but I just feel there has to be a "best" way.
>>
>>Thanks, as always!
>>
>>dave
>
>
> I haven't made any yet myself, but when David marks makes his loose
> tenons he uses a roundover bit that is 1/2 the the thickness of the
> mortice. So for your 3/8" mortice, you would use a 3/16" radius
> roundover to make the tenons. That particular bit isn't very pricey
> and you'll have it for a long time.
> Bill

Sk

"Swingman"

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 6:44 AM

16/01/2004 8:19 AM

About 30 seconds with a pattern makers rasp, and a little practice, will
round the corners of the tenon's cheeks sufficiently to fit your router cut
mortises.

Do it carefully, but don't agonize over it ...it ain't rocket surgery. The
fit, and glue, on the long grain cheek of the tenon where it contacts the
mortise sides is where you get the majority of your joint strength.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 1/12/04


"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
> I tried to make loose 3/8" tenons with rounded corners and realized I'd
> have to buy a pricey bit for each radius to make them easily on the
> router table. I thought I could just use my 3/8" roundover bit. Didn't
> realize that it has a straight portion on the profile...

MB

"Mitch Berkson"

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 6:44 AM

16/01/2004 11:40 AM

Bri wrote:
> I thought this FWW video tip looked interesting. As usual they make
> it look easy. Haven't tried it myself yet but I will.
> http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/wvt051.asp

In the video, he makes the tenon 1/16" short to allow for wood movement.
Why would the tenon be moving at a different rate than the mortised pieces?

Mitch Berkson


gg

"gandalf"

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 6:44 AM

17/01/2004 10:47 AM


"Mitch Berkson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:ow1Ob.5262$iI2.3524@lakeread03...
> Larry Jaques wrote:
> > On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:40:23 -0500, "Mitch Berkson"
> > <[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:
> >
> >
> > That 1/16" is for glue squeezeout, not movement. Glued
> > joints don't move too awfully much.
>
> You wouldn't think. But at 1:17 in the video, he says that the 1/16" is to
> allow for wood movement.
>
--------------
Actually that reference is regarding the width of the tenon, not the length.

LB

Larry Blanchard

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 6:44 AM

17/01/2004 9:44 AM

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> Er...
> Right angle grain is not cross grain. That is a common mistake.
> What is cross grain is when you have end grain against
> long grain.
>
Er.... Huh???

I guess they really do think differently in Oz :-).

--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?

BA

Bay Area Dave

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 6:44 AM

16/01/2004 4:46 PM

I haven't seen the video, but if the mortise is 2 inches long I agree
with the absurdity of it; there's not gonna be a 1/6" of an inch of
movement in a 2" long mortise. If that was the case, think how much
movement you'd have in a 48 wide table: 1.5 inches!

Perhaps there's another reason like making sure the shoulders are snug??
I don't know; just asking.

dave

Mitch Berkson wrote:

> Bri wrote:
>
>>I thought this FWW video tip looked interesting. As usual they make
>>it look easy. Haven't tried it myself yet but I will.
>>http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/wvt051.asp
>
>
> In the video, he makes the tenon 1/16" short to allow for wood movement.
> Why would the tenon be moving at a different rate than the mortised pieces?
>
> Mitch Berkson
>
>
>

bB

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 6:44 AM

16/01/2004 7:07 AM

I thought this FWW video tip looked interesting. As usual they make
it look easy. Haven't tried it myself yet but I will.
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/wvt051.asp


Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I tried to make loose 3/8" tenons with rounded corners and realized I'd
> have to buy a pricey bit for each radius to make them easily on the
> router table. I thought I could just use my 3/8" roundover bit. Didn't
> realize that it has a straight portion on the profile...
>
> Do you guys chop out the mortises rounded ends or what's your pleasure?
> do those little gadgets for chiseling corners work? I saw 4 different
> kinds at a WW show and couldn't see how you locate it over the work
> precisely. And how deep do they go? Is it far better to have a chisel
> narrow enough to chop down the end of the mortise? If I'm only going to
> CLEAN a mortise, but not create it with a chisel, do I buy a different
> chisel type than a mortising chisel?
>
> I want to do mortising the easiest way (read fast) and accurate, without
> buying expensive dedicated tools. Am I going in the right direction to
> consider using upcut spiral bits in the router table, clean out the ends
> and either make a tenon or make 2 mortises and make loose tenons?
> There's lots of choices but I just feel there has to be a "best" way.
>
> Thanks, as always!
>
> dave

MB

"Mitch Berkson"

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 6:44 AM

16/01/2004 7:23 PM

jev wrote:
> The tenon and mortise move at different rates cuz you have a cross
> grain joint - the grainruns at right angles to each other for the
> tenon and the mortise. So he leaves the width a 1/16 short on the
> tenon for wood movement and the length of the tenon a bit short for
> glue space. Of course, having the tenon width short also gives glue
> somewhere to go.

OK. Good point about the right angle grains. But unless you're using
silicone caulk to hold things together, isn't the glue going to try to
prevent any movement? Maybe this is an argument for pinning that side of
the joint and not using glue.

Mitch Berkson

lL

[email protected] (Lawrence Wasserman)

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 6:44 AM

19/01/2004 5:26 PM

In article <[email protected]>,
Noons <[email protected]> wrote:
>No. It's the same everywhere. Short grain is the end-grain.
>Long grain is along the grain.
>
>You must NOT glue short grain to long grain.
>Nor short grain to short grain. It won't work.
>
>But you can glue long grain flat to long grain, at any
>angle you may care. That's how M-T works, how lapped
>joints work, how virtually every wood glue-based join works.
>
>Think about it, you'll see what I mean.
>
>--
>Cheers
>Nuno Souto

You can glue it and it will be storng for a while, but if the joint is
more than a few inches wide and the grain in the 2 pieces is at 90d,
it'll split one of the pieces sooner or later. Otherwise, breadboard
ends, for example, could be just glued on a T&G instead of pinned &
allowed to 'float'


--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
[email protected]

s@

"stoutman" <.@.>

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 6:44 AM

16/01/2004 2:12 PM

I read in Joinery by Rogogowski (excellent book!!) that you should round
over your loose tenons with a bit 1/2 the thichness of the tenon stock. For
example a 1/2" tenon should be rounded with a 1/4" round over bit.

I have never made loose tenons,but I am considering doing them exclusively
because my tenons rarely come out right. I have trouble getting the
shoulders to line up perfectly all the way around the tenon.



"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I tried to make loose 3/8" tenons with rounded corners and realized I'd
> have to buy a pricey bit for each radius to make them easily on the
> router table. I thought I could just use my 3/8" roundover bit. Didn't
> realize that it has a straight portion on the profile...
>
> Do you guys chop out the mortises rounded ends or what's your pleasure?
> do those little gadgets for chiseling corners work? I saw 4 different
> kinds at a WW show and couldn't see how you locate it over the work
> precisely. And how deep do they go? Is it far better to have a chisel
> narrow enough to chop down the end of the mortise? If I'm only going to
> CLEAN a mortise, but not create it with a chisel, do I buy a different
> chisel type than a mortising chisel?
>
> I want to do mortising the easiest way (read fast) and accurate, without
> buying expensive dedicated tools. Am I going in the right direction to
> consider using upcut spiral bits in the router table, clean out the ends
> and either make a tenon or make 2 mortises and make loose tenons?
> There's lots of choices but I just feel there has to be a "best" way.
>
> Thanks, as always!
>
> dave
>

LJ

Larry Jaques

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 6:44 AM

17/01/2004 9:30 PM

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 21:57:26 -0500, "Mitch Berkson"
<[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:

>Larry Jaques wrote:
>> That 1/16" is for glue squeezeout, not movement. Glued
>> joints don't move too awfully much.

I meant tenon length/mortise depth difference but I
see i nthe video he's referring to tenon width. I
still disagree, though I'm sure I've made fewer M&T
joints than Lon has.


>You wouldn't think. But at 1:17 in the video, he says that the 1/16" is to
>allow for wood movement.

What did you expect from a Californian? They have all sorts
of movements out there. <giggle>

Nah, I don't buy it. You've chipped dried squeezeout off a
joint before, right? It's far too solid to allow movement
of that magnitude. When glue joints are tested, the _wood_
fails before the joint does in most cases.

Ian Kirby disagrees.
http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/articles/mortiseandtenon.cfm

-
If the gods had meant us to vote, they'd have given us candidates.
--------------
http://diversify.com Website Application Programming

n

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 6:44 AM

16/01/2004 12:00 AM

i am no expert.. only what i've seen

round over the tenons w/ chisel and sandpaper to fit the rounded
mortise.

the holding strength of this joint is on the wide side of the tenons

try to get the greatest surface areas to be as smooth as possible..
and to fit snugly..

MB

"Mitch Berkson"

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 6:44 AM

16/01/2004 9:57 PM

Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:40:23 -0500, "Mitch Berkson"
> <[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:
>
>> Bri wrote:
>>> I thought this FWW video tip looked interesting. As usual they make
>>> it look easy. Haven't tried it myself yet but I will.
>>> http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/wvt051.asp
>>
>> In the video, he makes the tenon 1/16" short to allow for wood
>> movement. Why would the tenon be moving at a different rate than the
>> mortised pieces?
>
> That 1/16" is for glue squeezeout, not movement. Glued
> joints don't move too awfully much.

You wouldn't think. But at 1:17 in the video, he says that the 1/16" is to
allow for wood movement.

Mitch Berkson

WS

Wes Stewart

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 6:44 AM

16/01/2004 10:52 AM

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:17:33 -0500, "George"
<[email protected]> wrote:

|Ah, but you can get "bead" profiles that double as bullnose.
|
|Note that if you are using loose tenons of good hardwood, you only need one
|size, ever. 3/8 of hardwood won't ever shear, and will glue in anywhere.

'Cept you really have to hammer on them to get them into a 1/4"
mortise [g].

tt

tmbg

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 6:44 AM

16/01/2004 11:45 AM

adjust the depth of your router so the roundover bit makes a smooth
continuous radius without leaving the ridge...

it can be done, I promise!

a mortising chisel is ideal for creating mortises, but not for cleaning
out corners of a routed one. Buy a set of halfway decent bench chisels in
various sizes, learn to use them, learn to sharpen them. They actually do
more things than open paint cans!

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 06:44:22 +0000, Bay Area Dave wrote:

> I tried to make loose 3/8" tenons with rounded corners and realized I'd
> have to buy a pricey bit for each radius to make them easily on the router
> table. I thought I could just use my 3/8" roundover bit. Didn't realize
> that it has a straight portion on the profile...
>
> Do you guys chop out the mortises rounded ends or what's your pleasure?
> do those little gadgets for chiseling corners work? I saw 4 different
> kinds at a WW show and couldn't see how you locate it over the work
> precisely. And how deep do they go? Is it far better to have a chisel
> narrow enough to chop down the end of the mortise? If I'm only going to
> CLEAN a mortise, but not create it with a chisel, do I buy a different
> chisel type than a mortising chisel?
>
> I want to do mortising the easiest way (read fast) and accurate, without
> buying expensive dedicated tools. Am I going in the right direction to
> consider using upcut spiral bits in the router table, clean out the ends
> and either make a tenon or make 2 mortises and make loose tenons? There's
> lots of choices but I just feel there has to be a "best" way.
>
> Thanks, as always!
>
> dave

LJ

Larry Jaques

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 6:44 AM

17/01/2004 1:17 AM

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:40:23 -0500, "Mitch Berkson"
<[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:

>Bri wrote:
>> I thought this FWW video tip looked interesting. As usual they make
>> it look easy. Haven't tried it myself yet but I will.
>> http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/wvt051.asp
>
>In the video, he makes the tenon 1/16" short to allow for wood movement.
>Why would the tenon be moving at a different rate than the mortised pieces?

That 1/16" is for glue squeezeout, not movement. Glued
joints don't move too awfully much.

-
If the gods had meant us to vote, they'd have given us candidates.
--------------
http://diversify.com Website Application Programming

s@

"stoutman" <.@.>

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 16/01/2004 6:44 AM

16/01/2004 2:13 PM

sorry, thats Rogowski



"stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message news:gjSNb.67495$sv6.145287@attbi_s52...
> I read in Joinery by Rogogowski (excellent book!!) that you should round
> over your loose tenons with a bit 1/2 the thichness of the tenon stock.
For
> example a 1/2" tenon should be rounded with a 1/4" round over bit.
>
> I have never made loose tenons,but I am considering doing them exclusively
> because my tenons rarely come out right. I have trouble getting the
> shoulders to line up perfectly all the way around the tenon.
>
>
>
> "Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I tried to make loose 3/8" tenons with rounded corners and realized I'd
> > have to buy a pricey bit for each radius to make them easily on the
> > router table. I thought I could just use my 3/8" roundover bit. Didn't
> > realize that it has a straight portion on the profile...
> >
> > Do you guys chop out the mortises rounded ends or what's your pleasure?
> > do those little gadgets for chiseling corners work? I saw 4 different
> > kinds at a WW show and couldn't see how you locate it over the work
> > precisely. And how deep do they go? Is it far better to have a chisel
> > narrow enough to chop down the end of the mortise? If I'm only going to
> > CLEAN a mortise, but not create it with a chisel, do I buy a different
> > chisel type than a mortising chisel?
> >
> > I want to do mortising the easiest way (read fast) and accurate, without
> > buying expensive dedicated tools. Am I going in the right direction to
> > consider using upcut spiral bits in the router table, clean out the ends
> > and either make a tenon or make 2 mortises and make loose tenons?
> > There's lots of choices but I just feel there has to be a "best" way.
> >
> > Thanks, as always!
> >
> > dave
> >
>
>


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