When I was in shop class years ago they drilled into us always have the
blade guard installed on your table saw.
This prevents kickbacks and wood flying up in-your-face and only take it off
when dadoing
and other special operations. My question is every time I looked at books
or see people
on television using table saws the blade guard is usually off. Is taking off
the blade guard and
operating the table saw without it a stupid idea that will put me in a
dangerous situation when working my table saw?
The reason that I asked is it seems to be a pain in the butt using it .It
gets in the way
of cutting small pieces a wood and sometimes just cutting wood in general.
If it's a
major safety feature I well just put up with.
Thanks John
"peter" <[email protected]> wrote
: Blade guards are often poorly designed. The previous saw I
: had the blade guard worked so poorly I had to take it off to get
: anything done.
I suspect that this is because of a poor regulation (OSHA) that says that
the guard must be self-adjusting. It must be very difficult to adjust one
that works well for each and every one of a variety of timber sizes.
UK health & safety regulation is less restrictive.
More about guards on my web site. Please see 'Circular Sawbench Safety'.
Jeff G
--
Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK
Email address is username@ISP
username is amgron
ISP is clara.co.uk
Website www.username.clara.net
This has been debated over and over... You can check the archives at
<http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&group=rec.woodworking>
Whether or not you run with a guard, I've learned two rules...
If you think a cut may be dangerous, it is. Find a different way to do
it by building a jig or sled, or using a different tool. Hand saws are
amazingly versatile...
and...
Know where your fingers are at all times. That means before, during
*AND* after the cut. It's preferable that the location remain the
same... attached to your hand.
djb
--
------
WOMD?
(link fixed...)
<http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/000140.html>
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 19:07:21 -0600, "Jdebrito"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>The reason that I asked is it seems to be a pain in the butt using it .It
>gets in the way
>of cutting small pieces a wood and sometimes just cutting wood in general.
You're right it does get in the way. But I always use mine
except when the nature of the cut prevents it.
My reasoning it that it protects me some if for some reason I
put a hand out to steady myself or if I reach in a hurry and go nearer
the blade than I figured. Or if for just a momemt I get distracted.
Or if something falls over the blade. I LIKE that piece of plastic
there.
Blade guards are often poorly designed. The previous saw I
had the blade guard worked so poorly I had to take it off to get
anything done. Fortunately the saw I have now has a good one that
works well. It will probably wear out before anything else on the
saw, and I will probably buy a new one.
Peter
A Bies splitter is the only reasonably cheap device I have found that
I feel is worthwhile.
On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 17:06:16 GMT, Igor <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 09:33:21 -0700, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>Agreed. In fact I'd say it was MUCH more important.
>>
>>There are overhead blade guards that work without getting in the way, but
>>they're expensive.
>>
>>A set of the guide wheels that allow a slight amount of pushback (not
>>kickback) are an excellent aid. I've got mine set to push the wood
>>slightly toward the fence. They can be flipped up or easily remove for
>>those occasional times when they get in the way.
>>
>Which ones do you have? I have board buddies which do help pull the board
>to the fence but show no real ability to prevent a board from moving
>backwards no matter how I adjust it. Just seems to be no surface friction,
>and they are new. If they had a bit more of a flat edge to them I might
>try gluing some sandpaper to them. My plastic featherboards exert more
>anti-kickback force even at a "normal" setting. I am now thinking about
>getting grip-tites.
On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 08:44:34 -0700, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>No kickback pawls. The splitters are just a piece of wood the width
>of the saw kerf glued in a slot on the homemade zero-clearance inserts.
>
>Remember that Kelly Mehler has proven that kickback only occurs when a
>piece of wood comes in contact with the back of the saw blade, clinbs,
>it, and is catapulted towards you. The splitter pretty much prevents
>that.
>
>The holddowns do other things. They prevent pushback, they hold the wood
>in place so you can go get another piece and push it through, they keep
>the wood from drifting away from the fence (if they're angled in a tad),
>and although I don't recommend it, thay allow me to go around to the back
>of the saw and pull the wood the rest of the way through,
Very helpful. Thanks.
As much as I agree with the reply to always know where your fingers are,
I like to always know where the blade is too. Sounds stupid since the
blade never moves, but I like being able to see the blade. I used the
blade guard 100% the first few months that I had the table. I had to
take it off to trim a door, used it a few times afterward on smaller
stuff and found I felt much safer being able to see the blade
unobstructed. I use a face mask and push sticks 100% of the time so
safety is utmost in the shop.
Thomas
Jdebrito wrote:
> When I was in shop class years ago they drilled into us always have the
> blade guard installed on your table saw.
> This prevents kickbacks and wood flying up in-your-face and only take it off
> when dadoing
> and other special operations. My question is every time I looked at books
> or see people
> on television using table saws the blade guard is usually off. Is taking off
> the blade guard and
> operating the table saw without it a stupid idea that will put me in a
> dangerous situation when working my table saw?
>
> The reason that I asked is it seems to be a pain in the butt using it .It
> gets in the way
> of cutting small pieces a wood and sometimes just cutting wood in general.
> If it's a
> major safety feature I well just put up with.
> Thanks John
>
>
"Jdebrito" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> The reason that I asked is it seems to be a pain in the butt using it .It
> gets in the way
> of cutting small pieces a wood and sometimes just cutting wood in general.
> If it's a
> major safety feature I well just put up with.
> Thanks John
Here we go again. Both sides make good arguments, but I still have my guard
in place. It did stop some wood from flying at me so it stays. The times
it has been an inconvenience is small in the scheme of things.
More important than the blade guard is a splitter. That keeps the wood from
grabbing the back of the blade. Stresses relieved after cutting can cause
the wood to move as it is cut.
Safe operating procedures, push sticks, safe technique is more important
that a guard, IMO, but I still have it in place. There are also aftermarket
devices that are better that what came with the saw. Overhead mounting keeps
them from being in the way for some operations.
A Google search will find many posts of the subject.
Ed
[email protected]
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
> There are overhead blade guards that work without getting in the way, but
> they're expensive.
>
I just made the overhead blade guard whose design was in the October,
2002, issue of Fine Woodworking magazine. It is an absolutely genius
idea, I think, and you can make it for less than $100. Anyone interested
in a guard, or wanting to substitute what they already have, for safety
or dust control,should take a look at it, perhaps possibly on the
Taunton website. The guy who thought it up has a science background; if
he put it into kit form he'd make a zillion dollars. IMHO, and all that.
It is interesting that things that are so potentially helpful are such an
"after thought" item. it is kind of like they aren't really trying when it
comes to these things. My Ridgid ts2424 had a nice table, good trunion and
one of the crappiest bladguard splitter combinations I have ever used. It is
inconvenient to put on and get it adjusted properly so that the splitter
gets into the right place and doesn't cause binding etc. So many times once
I have to remove it to do something that requires its absence like dadoing,
I will tend to leave it off rather than replacing it ASAP because of this. I
know in my head that I am risking my safety unnecessarily, but I rationalize
that just reattaching it will also be a safety hazard.
The blade guard itself is probably as good as it needs to be, but that
stupid splitter never seems to line up properly with the blade.
I just know that once it is off it stays off longer than it should.
-- A
"Sweet Sawdust" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> My blade guard is in like new condition under the motor cover of my TS
> protected by a cushion of sawdust, at least it was last time I swept that
> out of the way place. I found that it was causing me more trouble (danger)
> then it prevented.
> "Thomas Mitchell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > As much as I agree with the reply to always know where your fingers are,
> > I like to always know where the blade is too. Sounds stupid since the
> > blade never moves, but I like being able to see the blade. I used the
> > blade guard 100% the first few months that I had the table. I had to
> > take it off to trim a door, used it a few times afterward on smaller
> > stuff and found I felt much safer being able to see the blade
> > unobstructed. I use a face mask and push sticks 100% of the time so
> > safety is utmost in the shop.
> >
> > Thomas
> >
> > Jdebrito wrote:
> > > When I was in shop class years ago they drilled into us always have
the
> > > blade guard installed on your table saw.
> > > This prevents kickbacks and wood flying up in-your-face and only take
it
> off
> > > when dadoing
> > > and other special operations. My question is every time I looked at
> books
> > > or see people
> > > on television using table saws the blade guard is usually off. Is
taking
> off
> > > the blade guard and
> > > operating the table saw without it a stupid idea that will put me in a
> > > dangerous situation when working my table saw?
> > >
> > > The reason that I asked is it seems to be a pain in the butt using it
> .It
> > > gets in the way
> > > of cutting small pieces a wood and sometimes just cutting wood in
> general.
> > > If it's a
> > > major safety feature I well just put up with.
> > > Thanks John
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
In article <COA%[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> More important than the blade guard is a splitter. That keeps the wood from
> grabbing the back of the blade. Stresses relieved after cutting can cause
> the wood to move as it is cut.
>
>
Agreed. In fact I'd say it was MUCH more important.
There are overhead blade guards that work without getting in the way, but
they're expensive.
A set of the guide wheels that allow a slight amount of pushback (not
kickback) are an excellent aid. I've got mine set to push the wood
slightly toward the fence. They can be flipped up or easily remove for
those occasional times when they get in the way.
I've worked (as a hobbyist) without one ever since I got my first table
saw about 30 years ago. Still have all my fingers. If a cut makes me
nervous I find a different way to do it.
--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 09:33:21 -0700, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
> >A set of the guide wheels that allow a slight amount of pushback (not
> >kickback) are an excellent aid. I've got mine set to push the wood
> >slightly toward the fence. They can be flipped up or easily remove for
> >those occasional times when they get in the way.
> >
> Which ones do you have? I have board buddies which do help pull the board
> to the fence but show no real ability to prevent a board from moving
> backwards no matter how I adjust it.
Sheesh! I don't believe how hard it was to find them. Of course, I
looked through my printed catalogs first :-). Anyway, here they are:
http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/FULLPRES.exe?PARTNUM=96974
--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> Thanks mucho. So, you use this thing and a splitter together, which makes
> sense? But, does the splitter have kickback pawls or is the only kickback
> protection from this thing? Or, do you use this primarily to help the
> stock hug the fence?
>
No kickback pawls. The splitters are just a piece of wood the width
of the saw kerf glued in a slot on the homemade zero-clearance inserts.
Remember that Kelly Mehler has proven that kickback only occurs when a
piece of wood comes in contact with the back of the saw blade, clinbs,
it, and is catapulted towards you. The splitter pretty much prevents
that.
The holddowns do other things. They prevent pushback, they hold the wood
in place so you can go get another piece and push it through, they keep
the wood from drifting away from the fence (if they're angled in a tad),
and although I don't recommend it, thay allow me to go around to the back
of the saw and pull the wood the rest of the way through,
--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?
In article <umO1b.9144$Qy4.879@fed1read05>, [email protected] says...
> Larry,
> Do you have any pictures of your setup that you can post?
>
Not really, but if you google my past posts on this topic, you'll find a
URL pointing to a site with a picture of the holddowns. I'd give it, but
I didn't keep it.
--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?
On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 20:45:38 -0700, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Sheesh! I don't believe how hard it was to find them. Of course, I
>looked through my printed catalogs first :-). Anyway, here they are:
>
>http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/FULLPRES.exe?PARTNUM=96974
Thanks mucho. So, you use this thing and a splitter together, which makes
sense? But, does the splitter have kickback pawls or is the only kickback
protection from this thing? Or, do you use this primarily to help the
stock hug the fence?
On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 09:33:21 -0700, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Agreed. In fact I'd say it was MUCH more important.
>
>There are overhead blade guards that work without getting in the way, but
>they're expensive.
>
>A set of the guide wheels that allow a slight amount of pushback (not
>kickback) are an excellent aid. I've got mine set to push the wood
>slightly toward the fence. They can be flipped up or easily remove for
>those occasional times when they get in the way.
>
Which ones do you have? I have board buddies which do help pull the board
to the fence but show no real ability to prevent a board from moving
backwards no matter how I adjust it. Just seems to be no surface friction,
and they are new. If they had a bit more of a flat edge to them I might
try gluing some sandpaper to them. My plastic featherboards exert more
anti-kickback force even at a "normal" setting. I am now thinking about
getting grip-tites.
Larry,
Do you have any pictures of your setup that you can post?
Kevin
"Larry Blanchard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <COA%[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
> > More important than the blade guard is a splitter. That keeps the wood
from
> > grabbing the back of the blade. Stresses relieved after cutting can
cause
> > the wood to move as it is cut.
> >
> >
> Agreed. In fact I'd say it was MUCH more important.
>
> There are overhead blade guards that work without getting in the way, but
> they're expensive.
>
> A set of the guide wheels that allow a slight amount of pushback (not
> kickback) are an excellent aid. I've got mine set to push the wood
> slightly toward the fence. They can be flipped up or easily remove for
> those occasional times when they get in the way.
>
> I've worked (as a hobbyist) without one ever since I got my first table
> saw about 30 years ago. Still have all my fingers. If a cut makes me
> nervous I find a different way to do it.
>
> --
> Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?
On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 12:18:27 -0500, Ramsey <[email protected]>
wrote:
>A Bies splitter is the only reasonably cheap device I have found that
>I feel is worthwhile.
>
Well, I went to look at them and as best I can tell they unfortunatley
don't make one for my DeWalt table.
> When I was in shop class years ago they drilled into us always have the
> blade guard installed on your table saw.
> This prevents kickbacks and wood flying up in-your-face and only take it
off
> when dadoing
> and other special operations. My question is every time I looked at books
> or see people
> on television using table saws the blade guard is usually off. Is taking
off
> the blade guard and
> operating the table saw without it a stupid idea that will put me in a
> dangerous situation when working my table saw?
The reason that you see the guard removed in books and videos is for
clarity...it's very hard to get a picture of the action thru a piece of
lexan/plexiglass.
As to leaving it on vs. taking it off, your call...there are pros and cons
to it and both sides have their points, so read and make a smart choice. As
for myself, I learned table saw use without an over the top guard or
splitter...fortytwo year old machine that I'm still using, thankyouverymuch,
Dad!...and neither I nor my father have had any problem with it...my mother
can't say the same, but she only used it once and didn't bother asking Dad
anything about the setup or how to do what it was she wanted to do...silly
woman!
Luck
Mike
My blade guard is in like new condition under the motor cover of my TS
protected by a cushion of sawdust, at least it was last time I swept that
out of the way place. I found that it was causing me more trouble (danger)
then it prevented.
"Thomas Mitchell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> As much as I agree with the reply to always know where your fingers are,
> I like to always know where the blade is too. Sounds stupid since the
> blade never moves, but I like being able to see the blade. I used the
> blade guard 100% the first few months that I had the table. I had to
> take it off to trim a door, used it a few times afterward on smaller
> stuff and found I felt much safer being able to see the blade
> unobstructed. I use a face mask and push sticks 100% of the time so
> safety is utmost in the shop.
>
> Thomas
>
> Jdebrito wrote:
> > When I was in shop class years ago they drilled into us always have the
> > blade guard installed on your table saw.
> > This prevents kickbacks and wood flying up in-your-face and only take it
off
> > when dadoing
> > and other special operations. My question is every time I looked at
books
> > or see people
> > on television using table saws the blade guard is usually off. Is taking
off
> > the blade guard and
> > operating the table saw without it a stupid idea that will put me in a
> > dangerous situation when working my table saw?
> >
> > The reason that I asked is it seems to be a pain in the butt using it
.It
> > gets in the way
> > of cutting small pieces a wood and sometimes just cutting wood in
general.
> > If it's a
> > major safety feature I well just put up with.
> > Thanks John
> >
> >
>