Hi All
I am hoping someone may be able to give some insight, I wish to make some
fitted book selves. I intend to use pegs to support / adjust the shelves,
and I am concerned about how to drill the holes accurately. I am currently
considering two options, buying a jig like this
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=788455&src=froogle and using
this or sending them to a local CNC routing company and having them do it.
As way of background I would say I am ok when it comes to woodwork but I am
certainly no cabinet maker. I am likely to build shelves again but not on a
regular basis. Any advice or alternative options would be appreciated.
Cheers
Stuart
On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 16:43:39 -0500, the infamous Morris Dovey
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>On 4/9/2010 2:06 PM, Stuart Pearson wrote:
>> Nice site by the way.
>
>Thanks - it's actual proof that if one can just take enough photos, at
>least some few are bound to turn out as intended. :)
I ended up with 287 or so pics inside the Wildlife Safari in Winston,
OR that one morning I went. Digital cameras rule. ;)
--
Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace
will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will
blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy,
while cares will drop away from you like the leaves of Autumn.
-- John Muir
On Apr 6, 3:46=A0pm, "Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*[email protected]>
wrote:
> "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> > The overkill part is knowing in advance that none of the shelves will
> > wobble. ;-)
>
> I use dado joints for my shelves. They don't wobble.
Not after the TiteBond-II sets, anyway.
"Phil Brown" wrote:
> Norm made one on The New Yankee Workshop. And CNC is a bit overkill.
> You don't need that level of accuracy.
----------------------------------------
Yep, made one for a router equipped with a 5/8" bushing.
Then a few years later, he was seen using this one with a drill.
http://tinyurl.com/yeu78jo
The drill version is a whole lot easier to use, IMHO.
Lew
"Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> The overkill part is knowing in advance that none of the shelves will
> wobble. ;-)
>
I use dado joints for my shelves. They don't wobble.
On Apr 4, 4:15=A0pm, Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 4/4/2010 3:09 PM, Stuart Pearson wrote:
>
> > Hi All
>
> > I am hoping someone may be able to give some insight, I wish to make so=
me
> > fitted book selves. I intend to use pegs to support / adjust the shelve=
s,
> > and I am concerned about how to drill the holes accurately. I am curren=
tly
> > considering two options, buying a jig like this
> >http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=3D788455&src=3Dfroogleand u=
sing
> > this or sending them to a local CNC routing company and having them do =
it.
> > As way of background I would say I am ok when it comes to woodwork but =
I am
> > certainly no cabinet maker. I am likely to build shelves again but not =
on a
> > regular basis. Any advice or alternative options would be appreciated.
>
> > Cheers
> > Stuart
>
> Let me offer yet another alternative - buy a half-dozen of these
>
> http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=3D1&cat=3D1,180&p=3D40089
>
> and have the CNC outfit drill the holes in your jig to ensure precise
> spacing and straight holes.
>
> I have _both_ setups, and much prefer the CNC for precision - but you
> can have the precision and the re-usability _and_ save moneyif you have
> the CNC folks drill six holes for you.
>
> Use a piece of 1/4" drill rod or the shank end of a 1/4" drill in one of
> the holes for registration.
>
> --
> Morris Dovey
> DeSoto Solar
> DeSoto, Iowa USAhttp://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
Morris,
I haven't spent much time hanging out on this board, but I just
ran across your suggestion and decided to click on the link and check
it out. I had been struggling with the accuracy of my drilling for a
while and I am excited to try these out. I bought one of each, and
with shipping it was $22.00. Thanks so much for mentioning them as I
wouldn't have known about them otherwise.
Brian
Martelle, Iowa
ExtremelyAverage.com
On Apr 4, 5:16=A0pm, [email protected] (Edward A. Falk) wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
>
> Stuart Pearson <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Hi All
>
> >I am hoping someone may be able to give some insight, I wish to make som=
e
> >fitted book selves. I intend to use pegs to support / adjust the shelves=
,
>
> Here's what I did:
>
> I made a strip of wood about an inch wide and three feet long.
> (Dimensions are totally unimportant.) =A0I then grabbed a box of nails,
> and very carefully pounded nails through it at 1-inch intervals (you
> can use whatever interval you want, just be consistent and precise).
> I only hammered the nails until they barely stuck through the other side.
>
> So now at this point, I had a long strip of spikes.
>
> Next, I laid the strip along the line where I wanted the peg holes to
> be, and tapped on all the nails, to make small shallow holes in the
> wood underneath. =A0These holes served as pilots for my drill press.
>
> The advantage of the strip of nails is that you only need to make one,
> and you only need to be precise once. =A0After that, it's only a matter
> of placing the strip at the same starting point every time. =A0You can do
> that easily by simply aligning the bottom of the strip with the bottom
> of your board.
>
> Finally, if the strip isn't long enough for the shelves you're making,
> just slide it up along the line of pilot holes, and match the bottom
> two or three nails with the top two or three holes and keep going.
>
> --
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 -Ed Falk, [email protected]
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/
That is a great idea. Thanks.
"Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 4/6/2010 1:31 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> "Phil Brown" wrote:
>>> Norm made one on The New Yankee Workshop. And CNC is a bit overkill.
>>> You don't need that level of accuracy.
>> ----------------------------------------
>> Yep, made one for a router equipped with a 5/8" bushing.
>>
>> Then a few years later, he was seen using this one with a drill.
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/yeu78jo
>>
>> The drill version is a whole lot easier to use, IMHO.
>
> OTOH, it doesn't get much easier than typing a short command line and
> pressing "Enter" at the CNC console - then watching (or not) as the tool
> does a faultless job.
>
> The overkill part is knowing in advance that none of the shelves will
> wobble. ;-)
>
> --
> Morris Dovey
> DeSoto Solar
> DeSoto, Iowa USA
> http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
That was my thoughts, the g code would take minutes to write and thus would
be very cheap particularly as a local company would of done them in exchange
for some repair work I did on a controller last year. Still I have gone
with a cheap jig and will keep that favor in the bank for when cnc routing
is a better fit.
cheers
Stuart
On Apr 4, 1:09 pm, "Stuart Pearson" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi All
>
> I am hoping someone may be able to give some insight, I wish to make some
> fitted book selves. I intend to use pegs to support / adjust the shelves,
> and I am concerned about how to drill the holes accurately. I am currently
> considering two options, buying a jig like thishttp://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=788455&src=froogleand using
> this or sending them to a local CNC routing company and having them do it.
> As way of background I would say I am ok when it comes to woodwork but I am
> certainly no cabinet maker. I am likely to build shelves again but not on a
> regular basis. Any advice or alternative options would be appreciated.
>
> Cheers
> Stuart
Norm made one on The New Yankee Workshop. And CNC is a bit overkill.
You don't need that level of accuracy.
Phil Brown
I will assume you can mark the location of the holes accurately, and your
concern is (as you did note): how to drill the holes accurately.
Use a brad point drill bit, of the right size for your shelf pins or
sleeves.
This type of drill bit has a sharp point to easily start your hole where you
want it to go.
Use a Drill Stop to limit the depth that you go so you do not blow through
the side.
Also, be careful to hold the drill steady and at a right angle to the board
being drilled.
Check this out: http://www.woodworkingtips.com/etips/etip021011wb.html
it is a drill stop and right angle helper.
Practice a few on a scrap bit of wood to make sure you have it right & are
comfortable doing it.
Matt
"Stuart Pearson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi All
>
> I am hoping someone may be able to give some insight, I wish to make some
> fitted book selves. I intend to use pegs to support / adjust the shelves,
> and I am concerned about how to drill the holes accurately. I am currently
> considering two options, buying a jig like this
> http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=788455&src=froogle and using
> this or sending them to a local CNC routing company and having them do it.
> As way of background I would say I am ok when it comes to woodwork but I am
> certainly no cabinet maker. I am likely to build shelves again but not on a
> regular basis. Any advice or alternative options would be appreciated.
>
> Cheers
> Stuart
>
Not sure what you call it on your side of the pond but pegboard
http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/detail.ex?sku=0502995&ucst=t
is a cheap template for holes on 1" centers.
Art
On 4/4/2010 3:09 PM, Stuart Pearson wrote:
> Hi All
>
> I am hoping someone may be able to give some insight, I wish to make some
> fitted book selves. I intend to use pegs to support / adjust the shelves,
> and I am concerned about how to drill the holes accurately. I am currently
> considering two options, buying a jig like this
> http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=788455&src=froogle and using
> this or sending them to a local CNC routing company and having them do it.
> As way of background I would say I am ok when it comes to woodwork but I am
> certainly no cabinet maker. I am likely to build shelves again but not on a
> regular basis. Any advice or alternative options would be appreciated.
>
> Cheers
> Stuart
Let me offer yet another alternative - buy a half-dozen of these
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&cat=1,180&p=40089
and have the CNC outfit drill the holes in your jig to ensure precise
spacing and straight holes.
I have _both_ setups, and much prefer the CNC for precision - but you
can have the precision and the re-usability _and_ save moneyif you have
the CNC folks drill six holes for you.
Use a piece of 1/4" drill rod or the shank end of a 1/4" drill in one of
the holes for registration.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
On 4/4/2010 4:09 PM, Stuart Pearson wrote:
> Hi All
>
> I am hoping someone may be able to give some insight, I wish to make some
> fitted book selves. I intend to use pegs to support / adjust the shelves,
> and I am concerned about how to drill the holes accurately. I am currently
> considering two options, buying a jig like this
> http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=788455&src=froogle and using
> this or sending them to a local CNC routing company and having them do it.
> As way of background I would say I am ok when it comes to woodwork but I am
> certainly no cabinet maker. I am likely to build shelves again but not on a
> regular basis. Any advice or alternative options would be appreciated.
Both are overkill. The Veritas works a treat but it's a lot of money to
do a simple job and there's no need to use CNC to drill a few holes
unless you're like Morris and have the machine sitting there and like to
dink with it.
All you need is a shop made jig with four holes in it with the right
spacing. Carefully align and clamp your jig, drill the first two holes,
then put pegs in those and put the jig over the pegs, drill the next
two, put pegs in those, repeat, moving pegs as required.
As to how you make the jig, you don't say what tools you have. All
kinds of ways to make a jig--if you've got a drill press you do it one
way, if you've got a table saw you do it another, if you've got a router
table and an Incra jig you do it a third, if you've got a CNC machine
you do it a fourth. So whatcha got to work with?
In article <[email protected]>,
Stuart Pearson <[email protected]> wrote:
>Hi All
>
>I am hoping someone may be able to give some insight, I wish to make some
>fitted book selves. I intend to use pegs to support / adjust the shelves,
Here's what I did:
I made a strip of wood about an inch wide and three feet long.
(Dimensions are totally unimportant.) I then grabbed a box of nails,
and very carefully pounded nails through it at 1-inch intervals (you
can use whatever interval you want, just be consistent and precise).
I only hammered the nails until they barely stuck through the other side.
So now at this point, I had a long strip of spikes.
Next, I laid the strip along the line where I wanted the peg holes to
be, and tapped on all the nails, to make small shallow holes in the
wood underneath. These holes served as pilots for my drill press.
The advantage of the strip of nails is that you only need to make one,
and you only need to be precise once. After that, it's only a matter
of placing the strip at the same starting point every time. You can do
that easily by simply aligning the bottom of the strip with the bottom
of your board.
Finally, if the strip isn't long enough for the shelves you're making,
just slide it up along the line of pilot holes, and match the bottom
two or three nails with the top two or three holes and keep going.
--
-Ed Falk, [email protected]
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/
On 4/4/10 11:08 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>
> http://fwd4.me/6wG $13
>
I use one very similar to that and it works perfectly.
By the time you set up some of the fancy, expensive ones, you could be
done drilling with a simple one.
Spend the money on a good bit & stop system that don't stick or clog.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 4/5/2010 3:24 AM, ExtremelyAvg wrote:
> I haven't spent much time hanging out on this board, but I just
> ran across your suggestion and decided to click on the link and check
> it out. I had been struggling with the accuracy of my drilling for a
> while and I am excited to try these out. I bought one of each, and
> with shipping it was $22.00. Thanks so much for mentioning them as I
> wouldn't have known about them otherwise.
Brian...
It's always handy to know more "ways to skin a cat"...
AFAICT, they're the same bushings used in some of the doweling jigs and
if you want a gee-whiz custom drilling jig, you can screw the bushings
into an aluminum base with 1/2"-20 threads
With that kind of setup, you can share the bushings between multiple
jigs and not need to buy threaded inserts at all.
I'm such a cheapskate that I went out and bought the 1/2-20 tap. :)
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
On 4/5/10 7:57 AM, Leon wrote:
> "-MIKE-"<[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On 4/4/10 11:08 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>
>>> http://fwd4.me/6wG $13
>>>
>>
>> I use one very similar to that and it works perfectly.
>> By the time you set up some of the fancy, expensive ones, you could be
>> done drilling with a simple one.
>>
>> Spend the money on a good bit& stop system that don't stick or clog.
>
>
> The Rockler jig comes with a brad poing vix type bit that is self clearing
> and does not eat away at the jig.
>
That's the same one I got from Woodcraft. Those bits are great, but
mine had trouble with clogging and the clog would make it stick in the
depressed position.
It got frustrating having to whack the thing every two or three holes to
clear the clog.
Maybe it was the plywood, maybe it was just a case getting what you paid
for, maybe they've improved the bits. Just FYI, for anyone looking into
it. Maybe buy it local, in you can, so you can return it.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 4/6/2010 1:31 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Phil Brown" wrote:
>> Norm made one on The New Yankee Workshop. And CNC is a bit overkill.
>> You don't need that level of accuracy.
> ----------------------------------------
> Yep, made one for a router equipped with a 5/8" bushing.
>
> Then a few years later, he was seen using this one with a drill.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yeu78jo
>
> The drill version is a whole lot easier to use, IMHO.
OTOH, it doesn't get much easier than typing a short command line and
pressing "Enter" at the CNC console - then watching (or not) as the tool
does a faultless job.
The overkill part is knowing in advance that none of the shelves will
wobble. ;-)
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
On 4/6/2010 5:45 PM, Stuart Pearson wrote:
> That was my thoughts, the g code would take minutes to write and thus
> would be very cheap particularly as a local company would of done them
> in exchange for some repair work I did on a controller last year. Still
> I have gone with a cheap jig and will keep that favor in the bank for
> when cnc routing is a better fit.
The jig should do a passable job for you - and you shouldn't be misled
by my (smallish-minded) attempts to remind the Festool crowd that those
tools aren't the final word in speed, accuracy, and ease of use. ;)
FWIW, I would expect that nearly all CNC routing shops already have a
code block to drill or rout holes on a parameter-controlled grid. Even
before my machine was delivered I had written that routine and another
to rout all the holes in Euro-style cabinets. I never made any kitchen
cabinets, but I've (re)used the grid-drilling code a fair amount. You
should probably revise their programming time to somewhere near zero.
Since you know enough to help them out with their controller, let me
encourage you to think about a project like
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/JBot/
Not only might you find something like fun to build and play with, but
it's a wonderful jig- and template-making tool. :)
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
On 4/9/2010 2:06 PM, Stuart Pearson wrote:
> Now why did you have to go and suggest that, I was finally getting
> some of my projects completed and now you have given me the idea for
> a new one! ;)
It's a good project to let simmer until winter, then stretch the design
work out until spring. It's not a big challenge so much as a collection
of tiny ones. At the end, the satisfaction from watching it work is all
out of proportion to the size of the machine and the work that went into
constructing it.
The most surprising part of the project for me was how much less
complicated the electronics were than I had imagined.
> Must admit I have considered it before but is only with my recent
> house move I have had the space and it does sound like a fun project.
If you decide to build one, you're invited to consider me a resource -
and if you have difficulty finding (or ordering) parts, I may be able to
help.
> Nice site by the way.
Thanks - it's actual proof that if one can just take enough photos, at
least some few are bound to turn out as intended. :)
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
In article <[email protected]>,
Edward A. Falk <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Here's what I did:
>
>I made a strip of wood about an inch wide and three feet long.
>(Dimensions are totally unimportant.)
Crud; it just hit me: use a yardstick.
> I then grabbed a box of nails,
>and very carefully pounded nails through it at 1-inch intervals (you
>can use whatever interval you want, just be consistent and precise).
>I only hammered the nails until they barely stuck through the other side.
--
-Ed Falk, [email protected]
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/
On Sun, 04 Apr 2010 16:15:01 -0500, Morris Dovey <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Let me offer yet another alternative - buy a half-dozen of these
>http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&cat=1,180&p=40089
Hell, two of the desired size will do fine. Just keep registering the
hole you've just drilled to maintain accuracy. I bought a set of these
LV guides and they work great. Anything else other than some semi-pro
home set up is a waste of money.
"Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 4/6/2010 5:45 PM, Stuart Pearson wrote:
>
>> That was my thoughts, the g code would take minutes to write and thus
>> would be very cheap particularly as a local company would of done them
>> in exchange for some repair work I did on a controller last year. Still
>> I have gone with a cheap jig and will keep that favor in the bank for
>> when cnc routing is a better fit.
>
> The jig should do a passable job for you - and you shouldn't be misled by
> my (smallish-minded) attempts to remind the Festool crowd that those tools
> aren't the final word in speed, accuracy, and ease of use. ;)
>
> FWIW, I would expect that nearly all CNC routing shops already have a code
> block to drill or rout holes on a parameter-controlled grid. Even before
> my machine was delivered I had written that routine and another to rout
> all the holes in Euro-style cabinets. I never made any kitchen cabinets,
> but I've (re)used the grid-drilling code a fair amount. You should
> probably revise their programming time to somewhere near zero.
>
> Since you know enough to help them out with their controller, let me
> encourage you to think about a project like
>
> http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/JBot/
>
> Not only might you find something like fun to build and play with, but
> it's a wonderful jig- and template-making tool. :)
>
> --
> Morris Dovey
> DeSoto Solar
> DeSoto, Iowa USA
> http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
Now why did you have to go and suggest that, I was finally getting some of
my
projects completed and now you have given me the idea for a new one! ;)
Must admit I have considered it before but is only with my recent house move
I have had the space and it does sound like a fun project. Nice site by the
way.
Cheers
Stuart
"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 4/4/10 11:08 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>
>> http://fwd4.me/6wG $13
>>
>
> I use one very similar to that and it works perfectly.
> By the time you set up some of the fancy, expensive ones, you could be
> done drilling with a simple one.
>
> Spend the money on a good bit & stop system that don't stick or clog.
The Rockler jig comes with a brad poing vix type bit that is self clearing
and does not eat away at the jig.
On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 21:09:36 +0100, the infamous "Stuart Pearson"
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>Hi All
>
>I am hoping someone may be able to give some insight, I wish to make some
>fitted book selves. I intend to use pegs to support / adjust the shelves,
>and I am concerned about how to drill the holes accurately. I am currently
>considering two options, buying a jig like this
>http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=788455&src=froogle and using
>this or sending them to a local CNC routing company and having them do it.
>As way of background I would say I am ok when it comes to woodwork but I am
>certainly no cabinet maker. I am likely to build shelves again but not on a
>regular basis. Any advice or alternative options would be appreciated.
You can save your $130 if you build one. Here's a freebie:
http://www.benchnotes.com/Shelf%20Hole%20Guide/shelf_hole_drilling_jig.htm
Got pegboard?
http://www.binkyswoodworking.com/ShelfPinHoles.php
Or buy a cheaper model:
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=5876 $25
http://fwd4.me/6wG $13
--
In order that people may be happy in their work, these three things are
needed: They must be fit for it. They must not do too much of it. And
they must have a sense of success in it.
-- John Ruskin, Pre-Raphaelitism, 1850
If you are planning on doing this infrequently, I have several suggestions:
A. do as J Clarke suggested by making a 4 hole jig
B. If you have not selected your wood yet, check your building centre for
particle board / melamine panels that are pre-drilled. In my area the home
centres sell 16" wide, by 8' lengths that are pre-drilled for making book
cases.
C. If you still want to drill your holes in a custom manner, then I suggest
using a protractor or compass to mark repeatable distance marks on the 4
lines for the shelf holes. Determine how far from the front & back you want
the row of holes; lightly mark the 2 parallel lines on each side; determine
how far down from the top the holes should start - mark this onto all 4
lines; with the protractor / compass scribe the lines - using the
intersection as where to reset your protractor - repeat until all rows are
done; using a punch mark the holes better; drill each hole as appropriate
for your shelf pins.
D. As in C, but do this to a strip of plywood or aluminum or steel to make a
jig, then clamp it to your material and drill appropriately
E. read up on system 32 / European kitchen construction - they all show how
to drill those holes
F. look up books published by Danny Proulx -
http://www.cabinetmaking.com/pages/library.htm
He wrote several books on how to make cabinets and shows several methods
for marking the holes and making jigs.
The Veritas Jig is really cool, but overkill if you are making only one
shelf system.
And sending out to have the holes drilled will likely cost enough to take
the fun out of your own precision measure, mark and drill process
Hope this helps
"Stuart Pearson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi All
>
> I am hoping someone may be able to give some insight, I wish to make some
> fitted book selves. I intend to use pegs to support / adjust the shelves,
> and I am concerned about how to drill the holes accurately. I am
> currently
> considering two options, buying a jig like this
> http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=788455&src=froogle and using
> this or sending them to a local CNC routing company and having them do it.
> As way of background I would say I am ok when it comes to woodwork but I
> am
> certainly no cabinet maker. I am likely to build shelves again but not on
> a
> regular basis. Any advice or alternative options would be appreciated.
>
> Cheers
> Stuart