I can't believe I'm watching David Thiel on DIY Tools and Techniques using
a miter saw while wearing a long sleeved shirt....cuffs folded up to just
between the elbow and wrist. Not exactly the best example of proper tool
safety. In fact, I recall it probably breaks one of the FIRST safety rules
around power tools. David, shame on you....in this episode you're cutting
miters on mouldings using the miter saw...and showing how you use templated
mouldings to set your saw. How about rethinking the safety when you're
trying to teach?
bill
I never cared for the DIY woodworking shows, they never really explain what
there doing, or the reason there doing it. you could say it's personal
style, but some of there chooses for joints tend to be a little exotic, or
over complicated, also they tend to use tools the common woodworker
wouldn't have so how do I reproduce this with what I have, I'm not saying
Norm is the greatest but he's good about explaining what he's doing, and
why. also to my knowage I have never seen Norm not follow the safety rules
for his tools. Roy Underhill is in the same boat very talented, and very
safe, yes, he dose nick him self from time to time, but lets see anybody
handle razerblades all day long and never get a nick, a number of years ago
I saw him do a show on sharping tools, WOW he's good, but I think I stay
with my power tools.
Bill Otten wrote:
> I can't believe I'm watching David Thiel on DIY Tools and Techniques
> using
> a miter saw while wearing a long sleeved shirt....cuffs folded up to just
> between the elbow and wrist. Not exactly the best example of proper tool
> safety. In fact, I recall it probably breaks one of the FIRST safety rules
> around power tools. David, shame on you....in this episode you're cutting
> miters on mouldings using the miter saw...and showing how you use
> templated mouldings to set your saw. How about rethinking the safety when
> you're trying to teach?
>
> bill
While he's at it, he should also rethink what he's trying to teach. The man
has obviously not used some of the tools he features other than to make a
quick half-assed demonstration, and gives much mis-information on how to
operate it.
For example, one of the few times i watched it, he was demonstrating how to
run a shaper. He takes a board, runs the long grain through first, never
mentions the fact that the endgrain should always be run throught first on
account of tearout. He's never spent much time with a shaper.
It also ticked me off on one of the other shows i watched. They
featured a guy who was teaching how to hand-cut dovetrails, which is my
prefered method. DT interupted the guy so much, it hindered anyone from
learning anything.
By the way, is he the same Dave Thiel that is the editor(?) for Popular
Woodworking? The guy that reviews the tools, but probably asked someone
else what they thought about the tool cuz he never actually operated it.
Another waste of airtime by DIY --dave
"Bill Otten" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I can't believe I'm watching David Thiel on DIY Tools and Techniques using
> a miter saw while wearing a long sleeved shirt....cuffs folded up to just
> between the elbow and wrist. Not exactly the best example of proper tool
> safety. In fact, I recall it probably breaks one of the FIRST safety rules
> around power tools. David, shame on you....in this episode you're cutting
> miters on mouldings using the miter saw...and showing how you use
> templated mouldings to set your saw. How about rethinking the safety when
> you're trying to teach?
>
> bill
>
>
Dave Jackson writes:
>While he's at it, he should also rethink what he's trying to teach. The man
>has obviously not used some of the tools he features other than to make a
>quick half-assed demonstration, and gives much mis-information on how to
>operate it.
>For example, one of the few times i watched it, he was demonstrating how to
>run a shaper. He takes a board, runs the long grain through first, never
>mentions the fact that the endgrain should always be run throught first on
>account of tearout. He's never spent much time with a shaper.
Jeez. I just did that the other day. Left the end grain as is. Why? Because the
molding was going to be scarfed to another piece.
I know David Thiel, and seem to recall he was a cabinetmaker before he ended up
with Steve & Gang at PW.
I'd have to go along with the safety argument someone else posed: we all do the
stuff he was doing, no guards, etc., but they were right about it not being
good teaching technique to show that sort of thing to tyros. Otherwise, you're
doing a critique of his teaching style, which is valid for you, but not
necessarily to others.
Of course, I haven't seen the shows, so beyond the above, I won't comment. No
cable here, so no DIY or Norm or anything like it.
Charlie Self
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire." Sir Winston
Churchill
Hey Charlie, I guess i should have been more specific. Thiel was
demonstrating raised panels and cope/stick, which should certainly be run
endgrain first. If he were a cabinet maker in a past life he of all people
should know this. If you were just running some moulding, long grain is
fine. --dave
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Dave Jackson writes:
>
>>While he's at it, he should also rethink what he's trying to teach. The
>>man
>>has obviously not used some of the tools he features other than to make a
>>quick half-assed demonstration, and gives much mis-information on how to
>>operate it.
>>For example, one of the few times i watched it, he was demonstrating how
>>to
>>run a shaper. He takes a board, runs the long grain through first, never
>>mentions the fact that the endgrain should always be run throught first on
>>account of tearout. He's never spent much time with a shaper.
>
> Jeez. I just did that the other day. Left the end grain as is. Why?
> Because the
> molding was going to be scarfed to another piece.
>
> I know David Thiel, and seem to recall he was a cabinetmaker before he
> ended up
> with Steve & Gang at PW.
>
> I'd have to go along with the safety argument someone else posed: we all
> do the
> stuff he was doing, no guards, etc., but they were right about it not
> being
> good teaching technique to show that sort of thing to tyros. Otherwise,
> you're
> doing a critique of his teaching style, which is valid for you, but not
> necessarily to others.
>
> Of course, I haven't seen the shows, so beyond the above, I won't comment.
> No
> cable here, so no DIY or Norm or anything like it.
>
>
> Charlie Self
> "He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire." Sir
> Winston
> Churchill
Dave Jackson responds:
>Hey Charlie, I guess i should have been more specific. Thiel was
>demonstrating raised panels and cope/stick, which should certainly be run
>endgrain first.
You're right. A major oops. I'll probably run into David in '05, so I hope I
remember this. He's fun to tease.
Charlie Self
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire." Sir Winston
Churchill
Ya know, this entire post got me thinkin' about the DIY channel in general.
I've been a home builder/remodeler most of my life. (also, more recently a
home inspector) With a focus mainly on all phases of carpentry work.
It's my life summed up in a nutshell. Anyway, i was thinking that if
anyone, especially newbies, are considering remodelling their own home to
re-consider watching the DIY channel for information. Most of their
so-called "home improvement" programming involves some sledge hammer toting
moron who has no clue as to what he's doing. They just start bashing the
crap out of their home to make way for whatever their project is. I can
tell you, as a home craftsman, this is a real slap in the face to those of
us who do know what we are doing. This is not to say that a sledge has no
place in the home fixin' business, but anyone who has swung one more than a
few minutes at a time knows all it accomplishes is a tired body with a sore
back, and will definately bring appreciation to the ease of running a good
sawzall.
Another one of the other shows I watched ( I think it was called Doors,
Floors, and Windows) Featured two guys trying to set a prehung replacement
door an a bi-level home. They were having obvious difficulties. Probably
due to the fact that they only had a plastic $1.99 "Big Lots special" 2 foot
level. I mean seriously, if a guy came to my job to set the doors with ONLY
a 2' level, he'd soon find himself picking up trash after the other trades
until he got at least a 4', or even better, 6' level to go with the 2
footer. A good set of levels are extremely important in ANY home fixin'
project. (I have a 2', 4', 6', and big 8 footer that i love!) The average
joe homeowner should have a quality 2' and 4' as a minimum for projects.
Last weekend there was a show on (Sunday morning) that had a couple
remodelling their home. The misses obviously had no real woodworking
experience, but yet was cutting pieces for hubby on a 10" delta MS that had
NO blade guard. A disaster waiting to happen.
I could go on and on, but i this is enough. To me, the DIY channel is
more like watching the comedy channel. These so called "informational"
programs have to many people that should be doing the learning, instead of
trying to teach someone. Especially someone who may be truely interested in
doing quality work on their home. They will have difficulty accomplishing
this by following the mis-information given to them by DIY.
*It pisses me off that the DIY channel breeds so much ignorance.*
That said, there are a few GOOD shows that teach the correct way to do
things by people who know what they are doing. All the information
presented by Norm, This Old House, Wood Works, Woodturning, and Handmade
music (There maybe other shows worthwhile, but these shows are the ones i
know of that feature true craftsmen) are very worthwhile watching and
should be absorbed without conviction.
Sorry about the ranting, but someone had to do it! --dave
"Bill Otten" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I can't believe I'm watching David Thiel on DIY Tools and Techniques using
> a miter saw while wearing a long sleeved shirt....cuffs folded up to just
> between the elbow and wrist. Not exactly the best example of proper tool
> safety. In fact, I recall it probably breaks one of the FIRST safety rules
> around power tools. David, shame on you....in this episode you're cutting
> miters on mouldings using the miter saw...and showing how you use
> templated mouldings to set your saw. How about rethinking the safety when
> you're trying to teach?
>
> bill
>
>
I agree, the door needs to be set parallel with the wall, as do windows. A
self opening/closing door usually stems from the wall it is set in being out
of plumb, which is not uncommon, especially in older homes. It could also
stem from the hinges binding up.
But along the other axis, doors need to be plumb (squared across the
diagnals) or else it will rub against the frame and stick open or closed.
The reveals should match in distance to prevent sticking door in the future,
and this is where a good level is needed. I suppose one could "eyeball" it,
but if the threshold is out of level, it'll cause problems. --dave
"Tim Douglass" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 23:01:06 GMT, "Dave Jackson" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Another one of the other shows I watched ( I think it was called
>> Doors,
>>Floors, and Windows) Featured two guys trying to set a prehung
>>replacement
>>door an a bi-level home. They were having obvious difficulties.
>>Probably
>>due to the fact that they only had a plastic $1.99 "Big Lots special" 2
>>foot
>>level. I mean seriously, if a guy came to my job to set the doors with
>>ONLY
>>a 2' level, he'd soon find himself picking up trash after the other trades
>>until he got at least a 4', or even better, 6' level to go with the 2
>>footer. A good set of levels are extremely important in ANY home fixin'
>>project. (I have a 2', 4', 6', and big 8 footer that i love!) The
>>average
>>joe homeowner should have a quality 2' and 4' as a minimum for projects.
>
> Most of the houses I worked on when I was doing remodeling rendered a
> level about as useless as airbags on a motorcycle. I *never* worked in
> a house where things were sufficiently square and level to be able to
> "do it right". We always ended up backing off and adjusting things by
> eye. A door *will* swing if it isn't perfectly plumb, and the customer
> will be much less bothered by the fact that it is self-closing than if
> it were plumb and obviously out of parallel with the house.
>
> I speak half in jest, but it is a real issue in most remodeling
> projects.
>
> Tim Douglass
>
> http://www.DouglassClan.com
Ever see it last year w/ that other guy.
He was teaching how to make a bowl on the table saw.
Taking a block of wook and spinning it by hand over the blade while raising
the blade each spin.
Even my wife commented "how does this guy still have all his fingers!"
That was about all I needed to see of that show.
"Bill Otten" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I can't believe I'm watching David Thiel on DIY Tools and Techniques using
> a miter saw while wearing a long sleeved shirt....cuffs folded up to just
> between the elbow and wrist. Not exactly the best example of proper tool
> safety. In fact, I recall it probably breaks one of the FIRST safety rules
> around power tools. David, shame on you....in this episode you're cutting
> miters on mouldings using the miter saw...and showing how you use
> templated mouldings to set your saw. How about rethinking the safety when
> you're trying to teach?
>
> bill
>
>
"Roy Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Tim Douglass <[email protected]> wrote:
>> A door *will* swing if it isn't perfectly plumb, and the customer
>> will be much less bothered by the fact that it is self-closing than if
>> it were plumb and obviously out of parallel with the house.
>
> I've got a closet door that always swings open. Really annoying. We
> like to keep it unlatched because one of our cats likes to sleep in
> there (if you don't have cats, you won't understand).
>
> The house is a 100-year old wood frame house that we gutted and
> renovated a few years back; that's when the door was installed. At
> first it was fine, but as the house settled, it started to swing open.
>
> Any hints on what I can do to make the door not swing open any more?
bend one of the hinge pins slightly to increase the friction. however, our
cats open doors that are ajar anyway. we solved that by putting a swinging
door kitty door in the bottom of our kitchen door leading to the laundry
room.
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:51:14 GMT, "Dave Jackson" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I agree, the door needs to be set parallel with the wall, as do windows. A
>self opening/closing door usually stems from the wall it is set in being out
>of plumb, which is not uncommon, especially in older homes. It could also
>stem from the hinges binding up.
> But along the other axis, doors need to be plumb (squared across the
>diagnals) or else it will rub against the frame and stick open or closed.
>The reveals should match in distance to prevent sticking door in the future,
>and this is where a good level is needed. I suppose one could "eyeball" it,
>but if the threshold is out of level, it'll cause problems. --dave
Ever hang a new door in an old frame in an old house? First time I did
it I carefully transferred the hinge locations to the new door, hand
mortised the hinges, mounted them and hung the door. It wouldn't even
go halfway shut before binding at the top. I dismounted and ended up
planing the door into a parallelogram to make it fit and look
reasonable. Ended up with about a 1" gap at the bottom to try to make
it less obvious that the floor sloped. Client was thrilled but I
thought it looked like hell.
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
"Bill Otten" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> I can't believe I'm watching David Thiel on DIY Tools and Techniques
using
That's the same DT that's in the Popular Woodworking clan.
If you haven't seen an episode with an earlier host -- it is much more
topical / relevant now.
That said I don't watch it with regularity. It always has a hurried feel to
it -- "here's a shaper in 90 seconds."
> mouldings to set your saw. How about rethinking the safety when you're
> trying to teach?
Email him. DT's no dummy and I suspect is trying to balance several aspects
of the show.
I'd rather have him there that the others that preceeded him.
On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 23:01:06 GMT, "Dave Jackson" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Another one of the other shows I watched ( I think it was called Doors,
>Floors, and Windows) Featured two guys trying to set a prehung replacement
>door an a bi-level home. They were having obvious difficulties. Probably
>due to the fact that they only had a plastic $1.99 "Big Lots special" 2 foot
>level. I mean seriously, if a guy came to my job to set the doors with ONLY
>a 2' level, he'd soon find himself picking up trash after the other trades
>until he got at least a 4', or even better, 6' level to go with the 2
>footer. A good set of levels are extremely important in ANY home fixin'
>project. (I have a 2', 4', 6', and big 8 footer that i love!) The average
>joe homeowner should have a quality 2' and 4' as a minimum for projects.
Most of the houses I worked on when I was doing remodeling rendered a
level about as useless as airbags on a motorcycle. I *never* worked in
a house where things were sufficiently square and level to be able to
"do it right". We always ended up backing off and adjusting things by
eye. A door *will* swing if it isn't perfectly plumb, and the customer
will be much less bothered by the fact that it is self-closing than if
it were plumb and obviously out of parallel with the house.
I speak half in jest, but it is a real issue in most remodeling
projects.
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
"Roy Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Any hints on what I can do to make the door not swing open any more?
Izt kind'a fun. You pop out one of the hinge pins, lay it on the garage /
concrete floow, take a biga$$ hammer and whack at it until it bends *a
little*. Then pop it back in.
Also added benefit if you had a bad day at the office.
Tim Douglass <[email protected]> wrote:
> A door *will* swing if it isn't perfectly plumb, and the customer
> will be much less bothered by the fact that it is self-closing than if
> it were plumb and obviously out of parallel with the house.
I've got a closet door that always swings open. Really annoying. We
like to keep it unlatched because one of our cats likes to sleep in
there (if you don't have cats, you won't understand).
The house is a 100-year old wood frame house that we gutted and
renovated a few years back; that's when the door was installed. At
first it was fine, but as the house settled, it started to swing open.
Any hints on what I can do to make the door not swing open any more?
Roy Smith asks:
>I've got a closet door that always swings open. Really annoying. We
>like to keep it unlatched because one of our cats likes to sleep in
>there (if you don't have cats, you won't understand).
>
>The house is a 100-year old wood frame house that we gutted and
>renovated a few years back; that's when the door was installed. At
>first it was fine, but as the house settled, it started to swing open.
>
>Any hints on what I can do to make the door not swing open any more?
Spring loaded hinge?
Charlie Self
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire." Sir Winston
Churchill
I watched that guy once and that was enough. He was talking about fences
on tablesaws and then
walked over to cut a board. No guard, splitter, or ear protection. He
did have safety glasses. He proceeded
to run the board through by hand with no push sticks or feather boards.
Now, for those that have used these
tools for a while, doing these things may be ok for you. But considering
his show is appealing to the newbie,
I found it to be irresponsible. You have to wonder how many people pick up
bad habits from clowns like this.
Cheers,
cc
"Bill Otten" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I can't believe I'm watching David Thiel on DIY Tools and Techniques using
> a miter saw while wearing a long sleeved shirt....cuffs folded up to just
> between the elbow and wrist. Not exactly the best example of proper tool
> safety. In fact, I recall it probably breaks one of the FIRST safety rules
> around power tools. David, shame on you....in this episode you're cutting
> miters on mouldings using the miter saw...and showing how you use
> templated mouldings to set your saw. How about rethinking the safety when
> you're trying to teach?
>
> bill
>
>
I stopped watching that show after that episode.
"Rob V" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ever see it last year w/ that other guy.
> He was teaching how to make a bowl on the table saw.
> Taking a block of wook and spinning it by hand over the blade while
> raising the blade each spin.
>
> Even my wife commented "how does this guy still have all his fingers!"
>
> That was about all I needed to see of that show.
>
>
> "Bill Otten" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> I can't believe I'm watching David Thiel on DIY Tools and Techniques
>> using a miter saw while wearing a long sleeved shirt....cuffs folded up
>> to just between the elbow and wrist. Not exactly the best example of
>> proper tool safety. In fact, I recall it probably breaks one of the FIRST
>> safety rules around power tools. David, shame on you....in this episode
>> you're cutting miters on mouldings using the miter saw...and showing how
>> you use templated mouldings to set your saw. How about rethinking the
>> safety when you're trying to teach?
>>
>> bill
>>
>>
>
>
"Bill Otten" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I can't believe I'm watching David Thiel on DIY Tools and Techniques using
> a miter saw while wearing a long sleeved shirt....cuffs folded up to just
> between the elbow and wrist. Not exactly the best example of proper tool
> safety. In fact, I recall it probably breaks one of the FIRST safety rules
> around power tools. David, shame on you....in this episode you're cutting
> miters on mouldings using the miter saw...and showing how you use
> templated mouldings to set your saw. How about rethinking the safety when
> you're trying to teach?
I am shocked that DIY even shows this stuff anymore. A while back on
"The Ultimate Workshop" the host of the show showed how to cut a dado with
a dado blade. He cut a dado across the face of a 1x4 and left the guard on
the table saw. The look on his face when the board was stopped by the guard
was priceless. Even dumber was him pulling the 1x4 back through the
spinning dado set to get it out. Still stupidest of all was airing that
particular segment. He must have been a hair dresser at his previous job.