From abpw:
==================
Mark & Juanita wrote:
> Guess I'm going to have to look for a shop vac that doesn't scream
> like a banshee and doesn't fall out of its wheels whenever I move it.
I have a Sears shop vac and it doubles as a leaf blower. Take the motor
off, put an extension and a nozzle on the output, and it works ok for piling
up leaves.
When the motor is out, pushing leaves around, it is quite quiet. When it is
on the plastic "kettle drum" vacuum base it is as loud as hell. Therefore I
suspect "sonic coupling" between the motor and the drum, which could be
overcome by good design.
I bought a .1 micron (?) bag and started work on a replacement base for my
shop vac, one in which the motor would be sonically separate from the base.
I quit working on it because I'm space-challenged in my one-car garage shop.
I just wear hearing protectors when using the shop vac and so far no
neighbors have complained.
But my experiments make me think this could be a much quieter shop vac.
- Remove the motor. Hang it from strings from the ceiling.
- Run a 4" dust collector hose from the shop vac motor to the base. Seal
both ends well.
Through proper design this "acoustic separation" between motor and drum
could be achieved in shop vacs which would look very much like common
designs.
Thoughts?
-- Mark
How did you achieve your indicator lights? I have my compressor in the
garage and have it plumbed into the basement. I put it on a three-way
circuit so that I could turn it on from either location. I wanted to set up
indicator lights but didn't really take the time to work it all out.
Steve P.
"Rick Frazier" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mark:
>
> If you want to have quiet, and still vacuum your shop, perhaps it's time
for a
> decent Dust Collector...
> A large enough dust collector, plumbed with appropriate tubing (ok, so I
used
> PVC and haven't experienced any problems with explosions yet, check your
> favorite search engine for the diatribes for and against) will provide
quite a
> lot of "suck power", much like a portable shopVac, but infinitely more
quiet...
> I have my DC located in a separate shed attached to my workshop, and have
to
> have a light that indicates when it's on, so I remember to turn it off
( the
> air compressor too, as the compressor starting at 3am wakes the wife, and
you
> know how that goes)... As I leave the shop each night, I look for the
lights,
> and if nothing's on, it's ok, it's time to leave.
>
> DCs are very quiet compared to the typical shop vac, and it's an easy task
to
> provide extra "outlets" where you can plug in a typical 2 1/2" shopvac
hose to
> do your vacuuming...
>
> Thanks
> --Rick
>
>
>
Daniel H wrote:
> Have you listened to vacuums used in hotels? They are very quiet
> compared to any "Quiet Super Power" Shop Vac.
>
> I think vacuums can be designed quiet, just at a higher cost.
No, I'm not familiar with hotel vacs specifically. However during one of my
"financially challenging" times (c. 1984) I did have a 2nd job as an evening
janitor. I helped clean a bank and a grocery store while most folks were
piling up z's. ("See that toilet? I'll bet the bank VP took a dump there
today.") At that time there seemed to be just three differences between our
commercial Kirby vacs and the Kirby vacs my mother and mother-in-law had.
1. (Perhaps) More suction.
2. A much longer cord.
3. A higher quality bag, a bag that did not require an internal paper
bag. We emptied these commercial Kirbys by removing the bag and shaking it
in the dumpster.
It didn't seem to be any quieter...
-- Mark
In article <YK3nd.14327$d96.972@trnddc01>,
Mark Jerde <[email protected]> wrote:
>Robert Bonomi wrote:
>
>> Design consideration: 4" is _way_ too *small*. duct the _full_size_
>> of the 'suck' opening on the motor assembly. You want the linear
>> rate of air-flow to be _as_slow_as_possible_. The slower the air
>> flow, the more cr*p that drops out into the drum.
>
>On my Sears vac the motor snaps into the lid of the canister, right over the
>filter. It's sucking air from the canister through a hole maybe only 2" in
>diameter. A 4" hose is more than big enough, if all I'm trying to do is put
>some distance between the canister and motor.
OK, I'll buy that. Obviously, I'm not familiar with that specific unit.
The ones I've seen with the detachable blower, the 'blower' intake is a
good 6" dia.
>> I've got a Rigid 12 gal, "5HP" (snicker), vac. At least the one I
>> have is _amazingly_ quiet, for critters of it's type.
>
>I'll keep that in mind if I ever manage to break this Sears vac. ;-)
Caveat: I don't know if the 'quietness' is specific to _my_ unit, or
whether it is 'typical' for the model. I've had household vacuums
that were noisier. :)
>
>> The contortions one goes through, when the 'shop' is the
>> spare bedroom in a condo! :)
>
>Ouch. You probably don't do much with 4'x8' sheet goods. ;-)
H*ll, space is so tight in my shop that I have to rotate the *entire* table
saw, depending on whether I'm doing ripping, or cross-cutting.
Yes, I do use 4'x sheet goods, *but* they get cut down _before_ they hit
the 'shop' -- luckily, I've got a real lumberyard within about 1/3 mi.
I just grab the two-wheeler, and 'go for a walk'. They'll do the 'basic'
cuts for free with the panel saw. And it's less hassle to walk the two-
wheeler home than it is to take a car down, load the car, bring the car
back, unload the car, and ferry the stuff upstairs. With the two wheeler,
I just come right in the building, onto the elevator, and up to my floor. :)
Has been known to get _real_ funny, when I've wanted something they don't
normally stock. One day, I saw this 'wood supply' semi go by the corner
next to my building. Looked 'em up on the web, and lo and behold, they had
_exactly_ what I was looking for. And an 800 number. So, I called to see
about pricing. "No, I don't have an account", so they quoted full retail,
naturally. I said something about "I take it '{neighborhood} lumber'
is a customer?' -- turns out the guy I was talking to is _their_ sales
rep.; he didn't give precise details, but said 'you can probably get it
cheaper from them, than directly from us". So, I took a walk; went into
the office and said "I need ......". they replied "We don't stock that".
I said, "I know. call Tom at 'xxxxx', he's expecting your call, here are
the quantities, and =their= inventory numbers." The look on the manager's
face was absolutely _priceless_. *GRIN*
Mark:
If you want to have quiet, and still vacuum your shop, perhaps it's time for a
decent Dust Collector...
A large enough dust collector, plumbed with appropriate tubing (ok, so I used
PVC and haven't experienced any problems with explosions yet, check your
favorite search engine for the diatribes for and against) will provide quite a
lot of "suck power", much like a portable shopVac, but infinitely more quiet...
I have my DC located in a separate shed attached to my workshop, and have to
have a light that indicates when it's on, so I remember to turn it off ( the
air compressor too, as the compressor starting at 3am wakes the wife, and you
know how that goes)... As I leave the shop each night, I look for the lights,
and if nothing's on, it's ok, it's time to leave.
DCs are very quiet compared to the typical shop vac, and it's an easy task to
provide extra "outlets" where you can plug in a typical 2 1/2" shopvac hose to
do your vacuuming...
Thanks
--Rick
Mark Jerde wrote:
> From abpw:
> ==================
>
> Mark & Juanita wrote:
>
> > Guess I'm going to have to look for a shop vac that doesn't scream
> > like a banshee and doesn't fall out of its wheels whenever I move it.
>
> I have a Sears shop vac and it doubles as a leaf blower. Take the motor
> off, put an extension and a nozzle on the output, and it works ok for piling
> up leaves.
>
> When the motor is out, pushing leaves around, it is quite quiet. When it is
> on the plastic "kettle drum" vacuum base it is as loud as hell. Therefore I
> suspect "sonic coupling" between the motor and the drum, which could be
> overcome by good design.
>
> I bought a .1 micron (?) bag and started work on a replacement base for my
> shop vac, one in which the motor would be sonically separate from the base.
> I quit working on it because I'm space-challenged in my one-car garage shop.
> I just wear hearing protectors when using the shop vac and so far no
> neighbors have complained.
>
> But my experiments make me think this could be a much quieter shop vac.
> - Remove the motor. Hang it from strings from the ceiling.
> - Run a 4" dust collector hose from the shop vac motor to the base. Seal
> both ends well.
>
> Through proper design this "acoustic separation" between motor and drum
> could be achieved in shop vacs which would look very much like common
> designs.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> -- Mark
In article <[email protected]>,
Steven P <[email protected]> wrote:
>How did you achieve your indicator lights? I have my compressor in the
>garage and have it plumbed into the basement. I put it on a three-way
>circuit so that I could turn it on from either location. I wanted to set up
>indicator lights but didn't really take the time to work it all out.
It's trivial. just wire up a light fixture to to the same wiring that goes
to the compressor motor. (*before* the compressor pressure limit-switch,
of course. :)
The light will be on if power is 'available' to the compressor.
If you want the indicator light _by_the_switches_, that's a more complex
issue.
>
>Steve P.
>
>"Rick Frazier" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Mark:
>>
>> If you want to have quiet, and still vacuum your shop, perhaps it's time
>for a
>> decent Dust Collector...
>> A large enough dust collector, plumbed with appropriate tubing (ok, so I
>used
>> PVC and haven't experienced any problems with explosions yet, check your
>> favorite search engine for the diatribes for and against) will provide
>quite a
>> lot of "suck power", much like a portable shopVac, but infinitely more
>quiet...
>> I have my DC located in a separate shed attached to my workshop, and have
>to
>> have a light that indicates when it's on, so I remember to turn it off
>( the
>> air compressor too, as the compressor starting at 3am wakes the wife, and
>you
>> know how that goes)... As I leave the shop each night, I look for the
>lights,
>> and if nothing's on, it's ok, it's time to leave.
>>
>> DCs are very quiet compared to the typical shop vac, and it's an easy task
>to
>> provide extra "outlets" where you can plug in a typical 2 1/2" shopvac
>hose to
>> do your vacuuming...
>>
>> Thanks
>> --Rick
>>
>>
>>
>
>
In article <[email protected]>,
mac davis <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 19:56:56 GMT, "Mark Jerde"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Vic Baron wrote:
>>> You can buy a muffler for it - about $30 as I recall. Makes it really
>>> quiet. Check Rockler.
>>
>>I have one and it helps, but IMHO (perhaps) not as much as getting the motor
>>separate from the drum.
>>
>> -- Mark
>>
>but wouldn't a muffler work by changing to air pattern? does the vac
>(can't believe I'm asking this) still suck as well?
At leat with my Rigid, it changes the air pattern "only a little bit".
Basically, it splits the air-flow along different length paths, and then
re-mixes. The re-mix results in the sound waves being 'out of phase', and
cancelling.
The 'suckiness' is, for all practical purposes, unchanged.
In article <Z9Mmd.13729$d96.10197@trnddc01>,
Mark Jerde <[email protected]> wrote:
>From abpw:
>==================
>
>Mark & Juanita wrote:
>
>> Guess I'm going to have to look for a shop vac that doesn't scream
>> like a banshee and doesn't fall out of its wheels whenever I move it.
>
>I have a Sears shop vac and it doubles as a leaf blower. Take the motor
>off, put an extension and a nozzle on the output, and it works ok for piling
>up leaves.
>
>When the motor is out, pushing leaves around, it is quite quiet. When it is
>on the plastic "kettle drum" vacuum base it is as loud as hell. Therefore I
>suspect "sonic coupling" between the motor and the drum, which could be
>overcome by good design.
There are at least two things going on. 1) you're _outside_ -- no walls for
the noise to reflect off of. 2) the drum _does_ act as an 'echo chamber'.
>I bought a .1 micron (?) bag and started work on a replacement base for my
>shop vac, one in which the motor would be sonically separate from the base.
>I quit working on it because I'm space-challenged in my one-car garage shop.
>I just wear hearing protectors when using the shop vac and so far no
>neighbors have complained.
>
>But my experiments make me think this could be a much quieter shop vac.
> - Remove the motor. Hang it from strings from the ceiling.
> - Run a 4" dust collector hose from the shop vac motor to the base. Seal
>both ends well.
>
>Through proper design this "acoustic separation" between motor and drum
>could be achieved in shop vacs which would look very much like common
>designs.
>
>Thoughts?
Design consideration: 4" is _way_ too *small*. duct the _full_size_ of the
'suck' opening on the motor assembly. You want the linear rate of air-flow
to be _as_slow_as_possible_. The slower the air flow, the more cr*p that
drops out into the drum.
I've got a Rigid 12 gal, "5HP" (snicker), vac. At least the one I have is
_amazingly_ quiet, for critters of it's type. *NONE* of the typical
high-frequency 'screaming'. Rigid makes a 'muffler', circa $15, which
I _do_ have, but it doesn't make any appreciable difference on _this_ unit.
The mufflers _do_ tend to be fairly effective on 'screamer' units. Wish
I could figure out how to put it on my 'wall hanger' Shop-Vac. That thing
is noisier than a jointer under load!
The other thing that is _very_ useful, I've found, is an 'extension' hose
(or 2). My 'shop' is *very* cramped quarters, and I really _don't_ have
the room to wheel that 12 gal vac around. With the extension hoses, I
can leave the unit in the closet, just run the plug out to an outlet,
turn it on, and reach the entire room w/o having to move the vac. The
contortions one goes through, when the 'shop' is the spare bedroom in a
condo! :)
"Mark Jerde" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Z9Mmd.13729$d96.10197@trnddc01...
> Through proper design this "acoustic separation" between motor and drum
> could be achieved in shop vacs which would look very much like common
> designs.
>
> Thoughts?
I wonder if it is the location or, the strain of having to blow through a
filter. I have that vacuum also and it seems to get louder as the canister
fills or the filter plugs. With the motor off there is very little
resistance. Put you hand over the suction side some time and see how much
louder the motor gets.
You can buy a muffler for it - about $30 as I recall. Makes it really quiet.
Check Rockler.
Vic
"Mark Jerde" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Z9Mmd.13729$d96.10197@trnddc01...
> From abpw:
> ==================
>
> Mark & Juanita wrote:
>
> > Guess I'm going to have to look for a shop vac that doesn't scream
> > like a banshee and doesn't fall out of its wheels whenever I move it.
>
> I have a Sears shop vac and it doubles as a leaf blower. Take the motor
> off, put an extension and a nozzle on the output, and it works ok for
piling
> up leaves.
>
> When the motor is out, pushing leaves around, it is quite quiet. When it
is
> on the plastic "kettle drum" vacuum base it is as loud as hell. Therefore
I
> suspect "sonic coupling" between the motor and the drum, which could be
> overcome by good design.
>
> I bought a .1 micron (?) bag and started work on a replacement base for my
> shop vac, one in which the motor would be sonically separate from the
base.
> I quit working on it because I'm space-challenged in my one-car garage
shop.
> I just wear hearing protectors when using the shop vac and so far no
> neighbors have complained.
>
> But my experiments make me think this could be a much quieter shop vac.
> - Remove the motor. Hang it from strings from the ceiling.
> - Run a 4" dust collector hose from the shop vac motor to the base.
Seal
> both ends well.
>
> Through proper design this "acoustic separation" between motor and drum
> could be achieved in shop vacs which would look very much like common
> designs.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> -- Mark
>
>
[email protected] wrote:
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> -- Mark
>>
>
>
> worth pursuing.
Thanks. It's sometimes unusual to get encouragement in today's world. ;-)
-- Mark
"Mark Jerde" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:YK3nd.14328$d96.12682@trnddc01:
> Rick Frazier wrote:
>> Mark:
>>
>> If you want to have quiet, and still vacuum your shop, perhaps it's
>> time for a decent Dust Collector...
>
> <Blush> I have one of those too. (Sometimes I think I'm more of a
> "tool and clamp collector" than a "woodworker." <g>) I use the DC on
> the jointer & planer. My router table and table saw predate the DC
> and the shop vac works reasonably well on both. I also use the shop
> vac for general shop clean up -- it's not going to get a nail in the
> impeller.
>
>> DCs are very quiet compared to the typical shop vac, and it's an easy
>> task to provide extra "outlets" where you can plug in a typical 2
>> 1/2" shopvac hose to do your vacuuming...
>
> My DC is a fairly small two-bagger, one upper and one lower. (My shop
> is 110v only.) The DC works great on the jointer and planer but I'm
> underwhelmed by its dust collection when choked down to shop vac size
> hosing. The shop vac just gets more dust through shop vac sized hose
> than does the DC.
>
So plumb everything through a trash can cyclone. A 4" line, a 2.5" line,
and a 4" to the DC. Blast gates as necessary.
BTW, I resemble that tool and clamp collector remark.
Patriarch
Leon wrote:
> I wonder if it is the location or, the strain of having to blow
> through a filter. I have that vacuum also and it seems to get louder
> as the canister fills or the filter plugs.
I had not noticed that, but I'll be listening for it in the future.
My shop vac also gets used for vacuuming the house. We have a Norwegian
Elkhound, a dog that looks like a 9/10ths scale Husky. He sheds piles of
hair 11 1/2 months of the year. His long hair plugs up standard "home"
vacs, and it doesn't take long to fill the vac's tub with a nasty mixture of
hair and sawdust. ;-)
-- Mark
Robert Bonomi wrote:
> Design consideration: 4" is _way_ too *small*. duct the _full_size_
> of the 'suck' opening on the motor assembly. You want the linear
> rate of air-flow to be _as_slow_as_possible_. The slower the air
> flow, the more cr*p that drops out into the drum.
On my Sears vac the motor snaps into the lid of the canister, right over the
filter. It's sucking air from the canister through a hole maybe only 2" in
diameter. A 4" hose is more than big enough, if all I'm trying to do is put
some distance between the canister and motor.
> I've got a Rigid 12 gal, "5HP" (snicker), vac. At least the one I
> have is _amazingly_ quiet, for critters of it's type.
I'll keep that in mind if I ever manage to break this Sears vac. ;-)
> The contortions one goes through, when the 'shop' is the
> spare bedroom in a condo! :)
Ouch. You probably don't do much with 4'x8' sheet goods. ;-)
-- Mark
Rick Frazier wrote:
> Mark:
>
> If you want to have quiet, and still vacuum your shop, perhaps it's
> time for a decent Dust Collector...
<Blush> I have one of those too. (Sometimes I think I'm more of a "tool and
clamp collector" than a "woodworker." <g>) I use the DC on the jointer &
planer. My router table and table saw predate the DC and the shop vac works
reasonably well on both. I also use the shop vac for general shop clean
up -- it's not going to get a nail in the impeller.
> DCs are very quiet compared to the typical shop vac, and it's an easy
> task to provide extra "outlets" where you can plug in a typical 2
> 1/2" shopvac hose to do your vacuuming...
My DC is a fairly small two-bagger, one upper and one lower. (My shop is
110v only.) The DC works great on the jointer and planer but I'm
underwhelmed by its dust collection when choked down to shop vac size
hosing. The shop vac just gets more dust through shop vac sized hose than
does the DC.
-- Mark
Have you listened to vacuums used in hotels? They are very quiet
compared to any "Quiet Super Power" Shop Vac.
I think vacuums can be designed quiet, just at a higher cost.
Mark Jerde wrote:
> From abpw:
> ==================
>
> Mark & Juanita wrote:
>
>
>> Guess I'm going to have to look for a shop vac that doesn't scream
>>like a banshee and doesn't fall out of its wheels whenever I move it.
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:48:41 GMT, "Mark Jerde"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>From abpw:
>==================
>
>Mark & Juanita wrote:
>
>> Guess I'm going to have to look for a shop vac that doesn't scream
>> like a banshee and doesn't fall out of its wheels whenever I move it.
>
>I have a Sears shop vac and it doubles as a leaf blower. Take the motor
>off, put an extension and a nozzle on the output, and it works ok for piling
>up leaves.
>
>When the motor is out, pushing leaves around, it is quite quiet. When it is
>on the plastic "kettle drum" vacuum base it is as loud as hell. Therefore I
>suspect "sonic coupling" between the motor and the drum, which could be
>overcome by good design.
>
>I bought a .1 micron (?) bag and started work on a replacement base for my
>shop vac, one in which the motor would be sonically separate from the base.
>I quit working on it because I'm space-challenged in my one-car garage shop.
>I just wear hearing protectors when using the shop vac and so far no
>neighbors have complained.
>
>But my experiments make me think this could be a much quieter shop vac.
> - Remove the motor. Hang it from strings from the ceiling.
> - Run a 4" dust collector hose from the shop vac motor to the base. Seal
>both ends well.
>
>Through proper design this "acoustic separation" between motor and drum
>could be achieved in shop vacs which would look very much like common
>designs.
>
>Thoughts?
>
> -- Mark
>
worth pursuing.
ShopVac Brand Shop Vacs are very quiet.
I have a Craftsman.. never again.
Dave
"Mark Jerde" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Z9Mmd.13729$d96.10197@trnddc01...
> From abpw:
> ==================
>
> Mark & Juanita wrote:
>
>> Guess I'm going to have to look for a shop vac that doesn't scream
>> like a banshee and doesn't fall out of its wheels whenever I move it.
>
> I have a Sears shop vac and it doubles as a leaf blower. Take the motor
> off, put an extension and a nozzle on the output, and it works ok for
> piling
> up leaves.
>
> When the motor is out, pushing leaves around, it is quite quiet. When it
> is
> on the plastic "kettle drum" vacuum base it is as loud as hell. Therefore
> I
> suspect "sonic coupling" between the motor and the drum, which could be
> overcome by good design.
>
> I bought a .1 micron (?) bag and started work on a replacement base for my
> shop vac, one in which the motor would be sonically separate from the
> base.
> I quit working on it because I'm space-challenged in my one-car garage
> shop.
> I just wear hearing protectors when using the shop vac and so far no
> neighbors have complained.
>
> But my experiments make me think this could be a much quieter shop vac.
> - Remove the motor. Hang it from strings from the ceiling.
> - Run a 4" dust collector hose from the shop vac motor to the base.
> Seal
> both ends well.
>
> Through proper design this "acoustic separation" between motor and drum
> could be achieved in shop vacs which would look very much like common
> designs.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> -- Mark
>
>
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 19:56:56 GMT, "Mark Jerde"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Vic Baron wrote:
>> You can buy a muffler for it - about $30 as I recall. Makes it really
>> quiet. Check Rockler.
>
>I have one and it helps, but IMHO (perhaps) not as much as getting the motor
>separate from the drum.
>
> -- Mark
>
but wouldn't a muffler work by changing to air pattern? does the vac
(can't believe I'm asking this) still suck as well?