I finally gave in and bought one of those laser-guided infra-red
thermometers for the shop. I've needed one of 'em for a long time (for
solar panel testing) and Hammacher-Schlemmer had one on sale that
covered the range I needed for a price I could almost afford.
Yesterday I was routing MDO and pretty much watching a nice 1/4" solid
carbide 3-flute end mill getting dull. I could see the edges of the dado
getting fuzzier and fuzzier as the bit traveled - and by the end of the
second sheet, they were beginning to look more like "splintery".
Just for grins, I grabbed the new toy and took a temperature reading on
the bit as it was finishing that second sheet (after probably a little
more than 150' of routing)...
I probably should mention that the shop temperature was about 80F and
that the bit was turning at 14,000 rpm and was being fed at a nice even
1.5"/sec (90"/min) with a 1/4" depth of cut - and that, although the bit
was clearly close to the point of being unusable without resharpening, I
couldn't see any burning.
...the bit temperature was a nice cool 93.1F - nowhere near hot enough
for burning to take place, and very much cooler than I'd expected.
It confirmed for me that feed speed has a lot to do with preventing (or
causing) burning during cutting operations.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
"Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > Now you've done it...now Morris will have to buy a thermal imaging
camera.
>
> Ooooooh... I hadn't even thought of that - and it's deductable! :-D
An ultra, high speed, thermal imaging camera. Entirely necessary to catch
those spinning router bits right at the proper moment.
"Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message n
> I finally gave in and bought one of those laser-guided infra-red
> thermometers for the shop. I've needed one of 'em for a long time (for
> solar panel testing) and Hammacher-Schlemmer had one on sale that
> covered the range I needed for a price I could almost afford.
Admit it. You walked around all day testing the heat of anything and
everything you could see didn't you?
There's few things more engrossing than a new toy.
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in news:15bc7$48dce19d$cef88bc5
[email protected]:
>
> "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message n
>> I finally gave in and bought one of those laser-guided infra-red
>> thermometers for the shop. I've needed one of 'em for a long time (for
>> solar panel testing) and Hammacher-Schlemmer had one on sale that
>> covered the range I needed for a price I could almost afford.
>
> Admit it. You walked around all day testing the heat of anything and
> everything you could see didn't you?
>
> There's few things more engrossing than a new toy.
Especially with a laser light on it. I've used mine about a dozen times
for actual temperature measurement, and a dozen times a dozen times as a
cat toy!
Puckdropper
--
If you're quiet, your teeth never touch your ankles.
To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
Puckdropper wrote:
> "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in news:15bc7$48dce19d$cef88bc5
> [email protected]:
>
>> "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message n
>>> I finally gave in and bought one of those laser-guided infra-red
>>> thermometers for the shop. I've needed one of 'em for a long time (for
>>> solar panel testing) and Hammacher-Schlemmer had one on sale that
>>> covered the range I needed for a price I could almost afford.
>> Admit it. You walked around all day testing the heat of anything and
>> everything you could see didn't you?
>>
>> There's few things more engrossing than a new toy.
>
> Especially with a laser light on it. I've used mine about a dozen times
> for actual temperature measurement, and a dozen times a dozen times as a
> cat toy!
I bought a laser pointer (still in my briefcase) back about '84 - and
have to admit that it's logged a lot more hours in "cat mode" that in
"presentation mode". BTW, a drifting red spot on a wall/ceiling works
fairly well for settling down sleepy tots. :-)
I did spend a good part of the evening of this gizmo's arrival taking
the temperature of (almost) everything at home. ;-)
All of the end mills/router bits I've managed to break were destroyed by
overheating, and I was expecting this one to be near/at the breaking
point - and was surprised (a) that it /didn't/ break and (b) that it had
stayed that cool.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
Upscale wrote:
> "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> overheating, and I was expecting this one to be near/at the breaking
>> point - and was surprised (a) that it /didn't/ break and (b) that it had
>> stayed that cool.
>
> Are you sure you had it properly centred on the cutting edge? Even with
> small short easy cuts, the few times I've touched the carbide after the bit
> spun down, it always seemed a lot hotter than 100 F.
Well, the red dot was dead on - but the bit was turning (cutting edges
going past at the rate of 42,000/sec). I would guess that when a bit
overheats, the entire thing gets hot.
By the time I pulled the bit two or three minutes afterward (after
unclamping the parts and cleaning up some of the mess) I don't recall
that it felt particularly warm.
More "play" is definitely called for. :-)
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
Chris Friesen wrote:
> dpb wrote:
>
>> It's not likely there's sufficient focus in the sensor to precisely
>> measure the tip temperature, anyway, even if "spot on" w/ the guiding
>> laser.
>
> Now you've done it...now Morris will have to buy a thermal imaging camera.
Ooooooh... I hadn't even thought of that - and it's deductable! :-D
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
Upscale wrote:
> "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> Now you've done it...now Morris will have to buy a thermal imaging
> camera.
>> Ooooooh... I hadn't even thought of that - and it's deductable! :-D
>
> An ultra, high speed, thermal imaging camera. Entirely necessary to catch
> those spinning router bits right at the proper moment.
Absolutely. And better still - if I get a DoE grant I can buy it with
Tim's taxes! <eg>
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
spaco wrote:
> I suspect you were actaully reading an average temp for the area around
> and including the bit. The (what you said) thermometer that I have has
> an 8:1 field ratio. I think this means that for every 8 inches you are
> away from the target, the reading is taking the average of a 1"
> diameter circle.
Hmm - I hadn't thought about that. I took the reading with the nose
about 3" from the router bit, so might have (by luck only) gotten a more
or less decent reading of the average bit temperature. Even so, it was
still a lot cooler than I would have expected with an ambient
temperature only 11F cooler.
> I also bought one of the HF pocket sized IR thermometers. It's pretty
> neat, too, but it has a 1:1 field ratio, so if I was 8" from a target,
> I'd be reading the average temp within an 8" diameter circle.
> I use carbide tooling in my metal shop and its easy to get the tool up
> to 800 or 900 degrees. In the wood shop, (I'm a poor router guy) I
> have easily gotten HSS router bits hot enough to turn them Blue. That's
> about 570° F and the lowest temperature where "temper colors" show up is
> about 450° F, (straw").
Double "Hmm". The HF thermometer might actually have been better for
what I wanted at the time (checking heat re-radiated back thru the
glazing of a solar panel). I'll stick with the one I've got because it's
probably better suited for the fluidyne R&D, but I'll keep the HF pocket
version in mind...
(Thanks!)
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > An ultra, high speed, thermal imaging camera. Entirely necessary to
> catch
>> > those spinning router bits right at the proper moment.
>>
>> Absolutely. And better still - if I get a DoE grant I can buy it with
>> Tim's taxes! <eg>
>
> Damn you Morris. Now I've got Pepsi all over my monitor, keyboard and
> half my desk. :)
>
>
If you drank Coke, you wouldn't have that problem... You'd have Coke all
over your monitor, keyboard, and half your desk. :-)
Puckdropper
--
If you're quiet, your teeth never touch your ankles.
To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
Leon wrote:
> I wonder now, ;~) what the temp of the bit is during actual cutting. I
> wonder if possibly the bit cools down substantially by running at 14,000 rpm
> between the time of the completed cut and when you turn the router off.
> Either way I agree that faster feed speed helps in keeping the bit cooler.
That reading was taken while the bit was cutting.
One of the nice things about CNC routing is the "no hands" aspect that
left me free to aim the thermometer at the part of the bit down in the
dado while it was cutting (moving away from me).
Around the quill there's a home-made dust shroud - you can see it near
the bottom of http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/Bevel/ - with a 4"
connection back to a 1-1/2 hp HF dust collector, but I don't think it
really does much to cool bits.
I have more of this stuff to cut tomorrow, so I'll get more readings...
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
Robatoy wrote:
> On Sep 26, 4:33 pm, Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Robatoy wrote:
>>> Pepsi?? I din not know you vere Vrench?
>> Eh? I don't understand (and my Larousse is not helpful). What am I missing?
>
> I suppose it wasn't fair to assume that my American friends would get
> that reference.
>
> Check item 3, 5 and 6 here:
>
> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pepsi
Ah ha - thank you.
And my thanks to *all* our Canadian neighbors to buy US products of
*any* flavor! We need the business. :-|
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
Morris Dovey wrote:
> I have more of this stuff to cut tomorrow, so I'll get more readings...
It's tomorrow already. :-)
I reinstalled the dull bit (not a particularly good move, but I was
curious) and cut four MDO parts with it. The highest temperature I could
record while cutting was 105.3F - with most of the readings scattered
between 92 and 97F.
I put an adhesive red dot on the bit and set it aside for sharpening -
and made a note to myself not to try cutting more than one sheet of MDO
with a single bit. :-(
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
Robatoy wrote:
> Yup.. me thinks it's the adhesive. That stuff was a bear to work with.
> How about exterra? [sp?]
Extira is great stuff for signage because of its moisture resistance,
but otherwise it has all the characteristics of MDF. I thought about it
and decided that people deserve better.
I don't mind using up bits -- actually I mind /not/ using up bits <g> --
and am going to be looking for a better grade of weather-resistant plywood.
What I'd really like is nice 3/4", 4x8 sheets of acrylic-faced 11-ply
baltic birch (or even non-baltic non-birch) made with a machine-friendly
exterior glue, that I don't have to buy by the container load.
It may be about time for Mason Pan to open a store here in Iowa...
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
On Sep 28, 10:20=A0am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
> Snip
>
>
>
> > ...the bit temperature was a nice cool 93.1F - nowhere near hot enough =
for
> > burning to take place, and very much cooler than I'd expected.
>
> > It confirmed for me that feed speed has a lot to do with preventing (or
> > causing) burning during cutting operations.
>
> I wonder now, ;~) what the temp of the bit is during actual cutting. =A0I
> wonder if possibly the bit cools down substantially by running at 14,000 =
rpm
> between the time of the completed cut and when you turn the router off.
> Either way I agree that faster feed speed helps in keeping the bit cooler=
.
That might be the case up to a point in some materials, but when
cutting acrylic at high speeds, it heats up the bit rather than
cooling it off.
Material choice, feed rate, spindle speed and bit design all enter
into this complex equation. The chips are supposed to carry away heat
as well. One of the people at the CNC workshop was burning her maple
till the instructor backed off the spindle rpm but kept the feed rate
the same. That worked much better. I'm told that aluminum is a biatch
in that regard. It's all about chip removal.
On Sep 28, 1:12=A0pm, "Lee Michaels" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robatoy" =A0wrote
>
> I suppose it wasn't fair to assume that my American friends would get
> that reference.
>
> Check item 3, 5 and 6 here:
>
> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=3Dpepsi
>
> ***************************************************
>
> I am proud of you Robatoy.
>
> You finally gave us an Urban Dictionary definition that had nothing to do
> with a blatantly sexual reference.
>
> Geting old??
I'm doing what I can to behave myself, but some stuff is just too
funny not to share.
On Sep 28, 11:51=A0am, "PDQ" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I do not know who coined those epithets, but, this is one Canuck who neve=
r heard the word used in that fashion. =A0Musta bin sum dam Yankee <G>
>
> P D Q
The term Pepsi is more a local Quebec phenomena. It is not as
widespread as 'frog'.
On Sep 26, 4:33=A0pm, Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
> Robatoy wrote:
> > Pepsi?? I din not know you vere Vrench?
>
> Eh? I don't understand (and my Larousse is not helpful). What am I missin=
g?
>
> --
> Morris Dovey
> DeSoto Solar
> DeSoto, Iowa USAhttp://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
I suppose it wasn't fair to assume that my American friends would get
that reference.
Check item 3, 5 and 6 here:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=3Dpepsi
I suspect you were actaully reading an average temp for the area around
and including the bit. The (what you said) thermometer that I have has
an 8:1 field ratio. I think this means that for every 8 inches you are
away from the target, the reading is taking the average of a 1"
diameter circle.
I also bought one of the HF pocket sized IR thermometers. It's
pretty neat, too, but it has a 1:1 field ratio, so if I was 8" from a
target, I'd be reading the average temp within an 8" diameter circle.
I use carbide tooling in my metal shop and its easy to get the tool
up to 800 or 900 degrees. In the wood shop, (I'm a poor router guy) I
have easily gotten HSS router bits hot enough to turn them Blue. That's
about 570° F and the lowest temperature where "temper colors" show up is
about 450° F, (straw").
Pete Stanaitis
---------------
Morris Dovey wrote:
> I finally gave in and bought one of those laser-guided infra-red
> thermometers for the shop. I've needed one of 'em for a long time (for
> solar panel testing) and Hammacher-Schlemmer had one on sale that
> covered the range I needed for a price I could almost afford.
>
> Yesterday I was routing MDO and pretty much watching a nice 1/4" solid
> carbide 3-flute end mill getting dull. I could see the edges of the dado
> getting fuzzier and fuzzier as the bit traveled - and by the end of the
> second sheet, they were beginning to look more like "splintery".
>
> Just for grins, I grabbed the new toy and took a temperature reading on
> the bit as it was finishing that second sheet (after probably a little
> more than 150' of routing)...
>
> I probably should mention that the shop temperature was about 80F and
> that the bit was turning at 14,000 rpm and was being fed at a nice even
> 1.5"/sec (90"/min) with a 1/4" depth of cut - and that, although the bit
> was clearly close to the point of being unusable without resharpening, I
> couldn't see any burning.
>
> ...the bit temperature was a nice cool 93.1F - nowhere near hot enough
> for burning to take place, and very much cooler than I'd expected.
>
> It confirmed for me that feed speed has a lot to do with preventing (or
> causing) burning during cutting operations.
>
"Puckdropper" <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote in message
> Especially with a laser light on it. I've used mine about a dozen times
> for actual temperature measurement, and a dozen times a dozen times as a
> cat toy!
I've got the cat toy only version, but don't use it as often as I might
anymore. 10 minutes with the cat and the two mini batteries are dead. At $5
a pop each, playing with the cat started getting too expensive.
On Sep 26, 12:47=A0pm, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > An ultra, high speed, thermal imaging camera. Entirely necessary to
> catch
> > > those spinning router bits right at the proper moment.
>
> > Absolutely. And better still - if I get a DoE grant I can buy it with
> > Tim's taxes! <eg>
>
> Damn you Morris. Now I've got Pepsi all over my monitor, keyboard and hal=
f
> my desk. :)
Pepsi?? I din not know you vere Vrench?
"Robatoy" wrote
I suppose it wasn't fair to assume that my American friends would get
that reference.
Check item 3, 5 and 6 here:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pepsi
***************************************************
I am proud of you Robatoy.
You finally gave us an Urban Dictionary definition that had nothing to do
with a blatantly sexual reference.
Geting old??
The little HF pocket model goes on sale for $9.95 now and then. It is
surprisingly repeatable. We use it to test for cool spots on 5 gallon
batches of a dispersion we mix up. It does easily detect .1° F
differences, although we only need to know to about 3 or 4°.
Pete Stanaitis
------------------------
Morris Dovey wrote:
> spaco wrote:
>
>> I suspect you were actaully reading an average temp for the area
>> around and including the bit. The (what you said) thermometer that I
>> have has an 8:1 field ratio. I think this means that for every 8
>> inches you are away from the target, the reading is taking the
>> average of a 1" diameter circle.
>
>
> Hmm - I hadn't thought about that. I took the reading with the nose
> about 3" from the router bit, so might have (by luck only) gotten a more
> or less decent reading of the average bit temperature. Even so, it was
> still a lot cooler than I would have expected with an ambient
> temperature only 11F cooler.
>
>> I also bought one of the HF pocket sized IR thermometers. It's
>> pretty neat, too, but it has a 1:1 field ratio, so if I was 8" from a
>> target, I'd be reading the average temp within an 8" diameter circle.
>> I use carbide tooling in my metal shop and its easy to get the tool
>> up to 800 or 900 degrees. In the wood shop, (I'm a poor router guy)
>> I have easily gotten HSS router bits hot enough to turn them Blue.
>> That's about 570° F and the lowest temperature where "temper colors"
>> show up is about 450° F, (straw").
>
>
> Double "Hmm". The HF thermometer might actually have been better for
> what I wanted at the time (checking heat re-radiated back thru the
> glazing of a solar panel). I'll stick with the one I've got because it's
> probably better suited for the fluidyne R&D, but I'll keep the HF pocket
> version in mind...
>
> (Thanks!)
>
"Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Snip
>
> ...the bit temperature was a nice cool 93.1F - nowhere near hot enough for
> burning to take place, and very much cooler than I'd expected.
>
> It confirmed for me that feed speed has a lot to do with preventing (or
> causing) burning during cutting operations.
I wonder now, ;~) what the temp of the bit is during actual cutting. I
wonder if possibly the bit cools down substantially by running at 14,000 rpm
between the time of the completed cut and when you turn the router off.
Either way I agree that faster feed speed helps in keeping the bit cooler.
In article <[email protected]>,
"PDQ" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Verrrrry Interrrresting. Even the Frenchmens I knew in Northern Ontario
> never used it.
>
Okay, here is what you do: stand up in an east Montreal bar, near the
docks, and yell out: "any pepsis in here?"
And you WILL get confirmation that the term exists and that it is
derogatory.
(Make sure you have an ambulance waiting.)
"Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > An ultra, high speed, thermal imaging camera. Entirely necessary to
catch
> > those spinning router bits right at the proper moment.
>
> Absolutely. And better still - if I get a DoE grant I can buy it with
> Tim's taxes! <eg>
Damn you Morris. Now I've got Pepsi all over my monitor, keyboard and half
my desk. :)
On Sep 28, 1:12=A0pm, "Lee Michaels" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robatoy" =A0wrote
>
> I suppose it wasn't fair to assume that my American friends would get
> that reference.
>
> Check item 3, 5 and 6 here:
>
> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=3Dpepsi
>
> ***************************************************
>
> I am proud of you Robatoy.
>
> You finally gave us an Urban Dictionary definition that had nothing to do
> with a blatantly sexual reference.
>
> Geting old??
And whatever you do, don't look up what a 'rusty trombone' is.
On Sep 29, 7:49=A0pm, Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
> Morris Dovey wrote:
> > I have more of this stuff to cut tomorrow, so I'll get more readings...
>
> It's tomorrow already. :-)
>
> I reinstalled the dull bit (not a particularly good move, but I was
> curious) and cut four MDO parts with it. The highest temperature I could
> record while cutting was 105.3F - with most of the readings scattered
> between 92 and 97F.
>
> I put an adhesive red dot on the bit and set it aside for sharpening -
> and made a note to myself not to try cutting more than one sheet of MDO
> with a single bit. :-(
>
> --
> Morris Dovey
> DeSoto Solar
> DeSoto, Iowa USAhttp://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
Yup.. me thinks it's the adhesive. That stuff was a bear to work with.
How about exterra? [sp?]
"Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> overheating, and I was expecting this one to be near/at the breaking
> point - and was surprised (a) that it /didn't/ break and (b) that it had
> stayed that cool.
Are you sure you had it properly centred on the cutting edge? Even with
small short easy cuts, the few times I've touched the carbide after the bit
spun down, it always seemed a lot hotter than 100 F.
Morris Dovey wrote:
> Upscale wrote:
>> "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> overheating, and I was expecting this one to be near/at the breaking
>>> point - and was surprised (a) that it /didn't/ break and (b) that it had
>>> stayed that cool.
>>
>> Are you sure you had it properly centred on the cutting edge? Even with
>> small short easy cuts, the few times I've touched the carbide after
>> the bit
>> spun down, it always seemed a lot hotter than 100 F.
>
> Well, the red dot was dead on - but the bit was turning (cutting edges
> going past at the rate of 42,000/sec). I would guess that when a bit
> overheats, the entire thing gets hot.
>
> By the time I pulled the bit two or three minutes afterward (after
> unclamping the parts and cleaning up some of the mess) I don't recall
> that it felt particularly warm.
>
> More "play" is definitely called for. :-)
Certainly...but while running it's only the bulk temperature that's
going to get sensed for sure.
It's not likely there's sufficient focus in the sensor to precisely
measure the tip temperature, anyway, even if "spot on" w/ the guiding laser.
--
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message =
news:[email protected]...
>=20
> "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > An ultra, high speed, thermal imaging camera. Entirely necessary =
to
> catch
> > > those spinning router bits right at the proper moment.
> >
> > Absolutely. And better still - if I get a DoE grant I can buy it =
with
> > Tim's taxes! <eg>
>=20
> Damn you Morris. Now I've got Pepsi all over my monitor, keyboard and =
half
> my desk. :)
>=20
>=20
It's nice to know you appreciate a really fine libation. <G>
P D Q
I do not know who coined those epithets, but, this is one Canuck who =
never heard the word used in that fashion. Musta bin sum dam Yankee <G>
P D Q
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message =
news:64d5116c-5fd6-4885-9548-20e61f23e03a@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...=
On Sep 26, 4:33 pm, Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
> Robatoy wrote:
> > Pepsi?? I din not know you vere Vrench?
>
> Eh? I don't understand (and my Larousse is not helpful). What am I =
missing?
>
> --
> Morris Dovey
> DeSoto Solar
> DeSoto, Iowa USAhttp://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
I suppose it wasn't fair to assume that my American friends would get
that reference.
Check item 3, 5 and 6 here:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=3Dpepsi
Verrrrry Interrrresting. Even the Frenchmens I knew in Northern Ontario =
never used it.
P D Q
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message =
news:6294e8c4-6fa5-4611-8c9f-156af3e67cc9@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...=
On Sep 28, 11:51 am, "PDQ" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I do not know who coined those epithets, but, this is one Canuck who =
never heard the word used in that fashion. Musta bin sum dam Yankee <G>
>
> P D Q
The term Pepsi is more a local Quebec phenomena. It is not as
widespread as 'frog'.
Almost enough to make me think it originated with the FLQ generation.
P D Q
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message =
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "PDQ" <[email protected]> wrote:
>=20
> > Verrrrry Interrrresting. Even the Frenchmens I knew in Northern =
Ontario=20
> > never used it.
> >=20
>=20
> Okay, here is what you do: stand up in an east Montreal bar, near the=20
> docks, and yell out: "any pepsis in here?"
>=20
> And you WILL get confirmation that the term exists and that it is=20
> derogatory.
>=20
> (Make sure you have an ambulance waiting.)