Connect Unisaw to Dryer Outlet

"Steven and Gail Peterson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> OK, I will admit to the assumption that a dryer has a higher amp rating
> than a table saw. A 30 or 40 amp table saw would be a real monster. Like
> a sawmill. I would go for a circuit breaker that trips near (but above)
> the saw spec, so it does provide protection.
>
> Steve


Are you going to change out all you circuit breakers to a lower amp also for
you lamps, TV, radio's, blenders, 110 volt tools, and such? They require
much less than the circuit rating. If anything a lower rated circuit
breaker is going to make the motor heat up more when under a strain because
it is not getting enough power.

<snip> But you might want to change the circuit breaker to match
> the saw requirement. <snip>


DON'T do that!! The circuit breaker is there to protect the wiring -
not the appliance plugged into it. I'll amend that - you can size it
down to a smaller size breaker (15 amp from 20 amp) but never size it
up unless you know for sure what size and type the wire is and the
length of the run.

OK, let's assume you can check the wiring gauge size at the panel or at
the outlet. If it happens to be beefy enough to handle, say, a 30A
breaker, is it then safe to switch out to that larger capacity breaker?

H.

hylourgos wrote:
> OK, let's assume you can check the wiring gauge size at the panel or
at
> the outlet. If it happens to be beefy enough to handle, say, a 30A
> breaker, is it then safe to switch out to that larger capacity
breaker?
>
> H.

If you don't know, ask an electrician to look at it for you. To many
variables such as type of wire, type of insulation, length of run, etc.

My drill press is on the same circuit as the lights in my 9 month old
sons room. Is that why brown stuff keeps oozing out the end of my
boards?

Jerry S. wrote:
> > Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Ugh. Where do people get this stuff from? A breaker either stays
> > closed or it opens. If it's closed, the circuit will deliver as
much
> > power as the load can draw (minus resistive losses in the wiring
> > itself). If it opens, there's no power delivered. There is no
middle
> > ground where the breaker is not delivering "enough power".
>
> Hehe. My wife will turn the thermostat *way* up, so that the house
will warm
> up to the desired temperature faster. I can't seem to explain that
the air
> coming out of the ducts is the same temperature when she puts it at
82=B0 as
> it is when she puts it at 72=B0.
> --
> Jerry

While I don't disagree in general, if the thermostat is located near a
heating vent, it may cycle on-off more while the home reaches an
equilibrated temperature; not that your wife (or mine for that matter)
has thought it through that far.

Cheers,
Mike

Robatoy wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> Unquestionably Confused <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> on 3/18/2005 12:13 PM Steven and Gail Peterson said the following:
>> > OK, I will admit to the assumption that a dryer has a higher amp rating
>> > than
>> > a table saw. A 30 or 40 amp table saw would be a real monster. Like a
>> > sawmill. I would go for a circuit breaker that trips near (but above)
>> > the saw spec, so it does provide protection.
>>
>> Once again: The circuit breaker is there to protect the WIRING, NOT the
>> appliance. The rating of the saw, etc. when stated as "Use only on 15
>> AMP circuit" states the MINIMUM rating for the circuit to which the saw
>> is connected.
>>
>> That essentially the logic behind the fact you don't have any one amp
>> circuit breakers protecting your electric toothbrush recharger, the
>> nightlight in the hallway, etc.
>>
>> The circuit breaker protects the wiring, not the saw. The circuit
>> breaker protects the wiring, not the saw. The circuit breaker protects
>> the wiring, not the saw. The circuit breaker protects the wiring, not
>> the saw. The circuit breaker protects the wiring, not the saw. The
>> circuit breaker protects the wiring, not the saw. The circuit breaker
>> protects the wiring, not the saw. The circuit breaker protects the
>> wiring, not the saw. The circuit breaker protects the wiring, not the
>> saw. The circuit breaker protects the wiring, not the saw. The circuit
>> breaker protects the wiring, not the saw. The circuit breaker protects
>> the wiring, not the saw.
>
> The wiring? Not the saw?

how about the wiring in the saw?

Doug Miller wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>, Richard Clements
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>how about the wiring in the saw?
>
> No.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
>
> Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
> And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

you know that was a joke Right? just making sure

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> "Steven and Gail Peterson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > There is nothing magic about one kind of 220V over another, at least in
> > this 60 Hz country. But you might want to change the circuit breaker to
> > match the saw requirement. You could also change the outlet to match the
> > saw, instead of the other way around. Six of one-half a dozen of the
> > other.
>
>
> Ok, changing the circuit breaker is a waste of time and money and could be
> quite dangerous if you increase its rating.
>
>

Also, since it is a rental unit, it's probably better not to mess with the house wiring and just change the plug on the saw.

> Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Ugh. Where do people get this stuff from? A breaker either stays
> closed or it opens. If it's closed, the circuit will deliver as much
> power as the load can draw (minus resistive losses in the wiring
> itself). If it opens, there's no power delivered. There is no middle
> ground where the breaker is not delivering "enough power".

Hehe. My wife will turn the thermostat *way* up, so that the house will warm
up to the desired temperature faster. I can't seem to explain that the air
coming out of the ducts is the same temperature when she puts it at 82° as
it is when she puts it at 72°.
--
Jerry

It was somewhere outside Barstow when Unquestionably Confused
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Ah, I see. This is that "ring" or circular scheme that you or one of
>your countrymen was mentioning when this thread first started, correct?

Yes. The ring has a 32A breaker protecting it against wiring faults.
Appliances are protected by the plug fuse.

>What kind of fuse do you have in the plug for your 3HP cabinet saw or
>welder?

Biggest plug fuse is a 13A (for 230V), which is what the saw uses.

--
Smert' spamionam

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 16:52:01 -0500, Jerry S. <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Ugh. Where do people get this stuff from? A breaker either stays
>> closed or it opens. If it's closed, the circuit will deliver as much
>> power as the load can draw (minus resistive losses in the wiring
>> itself). If it opens, there's no power delivered. There is no middle
>> ground where the breaker is not delivering "enough power".
>
> Hehe. My wife will turn the thermostat *way* up, so that the house will warm
> up to the desired temperature faster. I can't seem to explain that the air
> coming out of the ducts is the same temperature when she puts it at 82° as
> it is when she puts it at 72°.

We're married to the same woman?

"Jerry S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> > Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Ugh. Where do people get this stuff from? A breaker either stays
> > closed or it opens. If it's closed, the circuit will deliver as much
> > power as the load can draw (minus resistive losses in the wiring
> > itself). If it opens, there's no power delivered. There is no middle
> > ground where the breaker is not delivering "enough power".
>
> Hehe. My wife will turn the thermostat *way* up, so that the house will
warm
> up to the desired temperature faster. I can't seem to explain that the
air
> coming out of the ducts is the same temperature when she puts it at 82° as
> it is when she puts it at 72°.

Oh hell - that's nothin'. Ask anyone of us that live in cold country what
the first the wife does when she jumps into the cold car... Reaches across
the car and turns the damn blower on full. Can't explain to her that she's
making us colder by doing that and she has to wait for the engine to heat
up.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Steven and Gail Peterson wrote:
>
> ...But you might want to change the circuit breaker to match
> the saw requirement.


No need---as has been noted many times, the circuit breaker is to
protect the circuit wiring, <not> the device...

>
> Hehe. My wife will turn the thermostat *way* up, so that the house will
> warm
> up to the desired temperature faster. I can't seem to explain that the
> air
> coming out of the ducts is the same temperature when she puts it at 82° as
> it is when she puts it at 72°.
> --
> Jerry

Its a concept foreign to everyone of my employees! I have locked all
thermostats and I still find some set at 80° in the winter and 60° in the
summer.

Even after a lengthy and detailed explanation to my wife, she still thinks
it warms or cools faster!!

Dave



Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

Jim Jacobs wrote:

> I am currently living in a rental until our house is finished. There is no
> 220 volt outlet in the garage so I can't use my saw. Not being an
> electrician, can I plug it into the outlet used by the dryer? I know I will
> have to change the plug on my saw.
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
> Jim
>
>
I found myself in the same position when I moved several years ago. I
just changed the the 4-prong receptacle in the dryer outlet to a 3-prong
20 amp style. Worked like a champ. When I moved, I put the 4-prong
receptacle back in the box. As I remember, the circuit was rated at 30
amps.

Dave Vermilyea

J. Clarke wrote:
> WillR wrote:
>=20
>=20
>>Roy Smith wrote:
>>
>>>Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>If anything a lower rated circuit breaker is going to make the motor
>>>>heat up more when under a strain because it is not getting enough
>>>>power.
>>
>>Enough current???? Have actually seen this -- in a failure mode of a
>>breaker - ALTAIALFA (a long time ago in a land far away) But it was a
>>handful of failures in thousands of machines. Highly unlikely -- but
>>maybe not impossible. I will leave it to the EE's in the group who migh=
t
>>want to debate this. I am sure that someone here can do some
>>calculations and dig up some data to prove something. I certainly
>>can't/won't these days.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Ugh. Where do people get this stuff from? A breaker either stays
>>>closed or it opens. If it's closed, the circuit will deliver as much
>>>power as the load can draw (minus resistive losses in the wiring
>>>itself). If it opens, there's no power delivered. There is no middle=

>>>ground where the breaker is not delivering "enough power".
>>
>>
>>And if the breaker fails by developing a higher resistance?
>=20
>=20
> Then how does it make any difference if the breaker is rated for 1 amp =
or a
> billion? If the failure is corrosion of the contacts or something else=

> that causes increased resistance in the contacts it's going to occur on=
a
> breaker of any capacity.
>=20
Sounds reasonable.

> The contacts are simply metal touching metal. They may be exactly the =
same
> size in breakers with a very wide range of current capacities. What ma=
kes
> the breaker "break" is a mechanism that opens those contacts, not anyth=
ing
> having to do with their innate properties.
>=20

Have to agree with that assessment.

>=20
>>Actually=20
>>seen this in a handful of failures out of many thousands of
>>motor/breaker circuits in a manufacturing situation. I was just glad I
>>could pass the analysis to someone competent. Again ALTAIALFA -- QA is
>>probably a lot better and techniques have changed -- so it probably
>>doesn't happen any more...
>=20
>=20
> So? Having a larger breaker would have made no difference.
>=20

And probably not even a smaller one. Don't know any more -- any more.

As soon as I could I stick to pure logic, and ittsy bittsy things that=20
couldn't pull my fingers off I was happier the motors were happier -- it =

was a win-win.

Packets, bits, bytes, words, core memories, adders -- they were all so=20
much simpler -- and if you hit them with a hammer they did not rotate=20
back at you and eat your finger -- or eat their breakers if you shorted=20
their contacts.

Motors -- especially ones with breakers and servos were (to me)=20
inherently untrustworthy...

Hope that explains my position.


>=20
>>I am beginning to wish that we had the Chemists equivalent of STP
>>(Standard Temperature and Pressure)
>>
>>Then we could all say that when we mean when we say "normally" -- which=

>>isn't used often enough...
>>
>>Then we wouldn't debate this stuff unless it was egregious enuff to
>>really rile us up. I am so MAD!!! Cause I saw some of these failures 30=

>>years ago and -- IT CAN HAPPEN! I SWEAR! TO DENY IT IS WRONG!!!!
>=20
>=20
> There is no question that breakers can fail in various ways. The quest=
ion
> is whether using a larger one would eliminate the kind of malfunction t=
hat
> you observed, and there is no reason to believe that it would.
>=20

Don't think I was arguing that -- for or against. Just pointing out how=20
grateful I was that somebody competent that worked with me could help.

Just just plaintively whining that I wish we had standards like STP so=20
we could discuss things easier -- beyond that...

>=20
>>And I swore I would never post on one of these threads. But if a cool
>>head like Robatoy can give at least one shot I will allow myself _once_=
=2E
>>
>>
>>Did I mention I HATE COMPOUND MITER DESIGNS?
>>
>>I swear by the Red Green payer that I will do this no more. I swear...
>>
>>
>>OKOK AMT. Breathe deep.
>>
>>
>=20
>=20

This was twice -- shudder!!! Hopefully I have displayed complete=20
incompetence and If I ever post in an electrical thread again will be=20
turfed as quickly as possible.

Unless, of course, you want all the calculations done in Mod 11 or Mod=20
13 -- I can do that. Ohms law and Helmholtz equations - calculated in=20
Mod 13 -- now there's a thought... Insane -- yes but still a thought.

In a matrix - LU factorization would make it easy --- yes it could work.

:-)


--=20
Will R.
Jewel Boxes and Wood Art
http://woodwork.pmccl.com
The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those=20
who have not got it.=94 George Bernard Shaw

It was somewhere outside Barstow when Unquestionably Confused
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Once again: The circuit breaker is there to protect the WIRING, NOT the
>appliance. The rating of the saw, etc. when stated as "Use only on 15
>AMP circuit" states the MINIMUM rating for the circuit to which the saw
>is connected.
>
>That essentially the logic behind the fact you don't have any one amp
>circuit breakers protecting your electric toothbrush recharger, the
>nightlight in the hallway, etc.

Permit a naive question from a Brit

So what does protect the saw ? Suppose there's a <bigamp> circuit
feeding a circuit for the drier or the saw, and the saw only requires
<littleamp> current. Is there a protective device anywhere to limit
this <littleamp> current ? What about the 1A toothbrush ?

Drink alot of beer. Or could be a typo for steam...
"Norman D. Crow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
>
> "rob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:tjC_d.12941$Z07.162@trnddc02...
>> I had a cutom 220 extension cord made to run a stream pressure washer
>> (kerosene powered boiler) from my dryer outlet to by back yard driveway
>> area. Worked great. You can buy the heavy cable and the plugs at HD or
>> Lowes.
>
> He asks in all innocence . . . "What's a stream pressure washer?"
>
> (R, D, & G)
>
> --
> Nahmie
> Those on the cutting edge bleed a lot.
>
>

RRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr... Several took the bait. LOL
With all the talk about Tom complaining about people making OT posts and him
being one of the worst, another post mentioned the electrical saga. Sorry I
could not resist.




"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:%[email protected]...
>
> "Steven and Gail Peterson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> OK, I will admit to the assumption that a dryer has a higher amp rating
>> than a table saw. A 30 or 40 amp table saw would be a real monster.
>> Like a sawmill. I would go for a circuit breaker that trips near (but
>> above) the saw spec, so it does provide protection.
>>
>> Steve
>
>
> Are you going to change out all you circuit breakers to a lower amp also
> for you lamps, TV, radio's, blenders, 110 volt tools, and such? They
> require much less than the circuit rating. If anything a lower rated
> circuit breaker is going to make the motor heat up more when under a
> strain because it is not getting enough power.
>

OK, I will admit to the assumption that a dryer has a higher amp rating than
a table saw. A 30 or 40 amp table saw would be a real monster. Like a
sawmill. I would go for a circuit breaker that trips near (but above) the
saw spec, so it does provide protection.

Steve

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Steven and Gail Peterson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> There is nothing magic about one kind of 220V over another, at least in
>> this 60 Hz country. But you might want to change the circuit breaker to
>> match the saw requirement. You could also change the outlet to match the
>> saw, instead of the other way around. Six of one-half a dozen of the
>> other.
>
>
> Ok, changing the circuit breaker is a waste of time and money and could be
> quite dangerous if you increase its rating.
>

on 3/18/2005 4:11 PM Dave Hinz said the following:
> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 16:52:01 -0500, Jerry S. <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>
> We're married to the same woman?


And some thought the testosterone was flowing freely around here of
late? We ain't seen nothing yet.<g>

>> "Steven and Gail Peterson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...

>> > There is nothing magic about one kind of 220V over another, at least in
>> > this 60 Hz country.

Since this is electricity for the dryer, he will have the added advantage of
being able to cut green wood and have it dried when the cut is done.

on 3/23/2005 6:32 PM Andy Dingley said the following:
> It was somewhere outside Barstow when Unquestionably Confused
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>What protects them (light bulb or clock)? Nothing.
>
>
> On the contrary - the UK system would give them their own 1A fuse, in
> the plug.
>
> In my house I have one style of socket, and I can use it for
> everything from the 3HP cabinet saw or welder down to an unearthed
> tiny-current clock. All appliances get protected appropriately.

Ah, I see. This is that "ring" or circular scheme that you or one of
your countrymen was mentioning when this thread first started, correct?

Okay, it's a US thing then. You DO have your wiring on a circuit
breaker though, correct, it's just sitting there with, what?, 40 or 50
amps on it and heavy duty wiring to boot?

What kind of fuse do you have in the plug for your 3HP cabinet saw or
welder?

Jim Jacobs wrote:
> I am currently living in a rental until our house is finished. There is no
> 220 volt outlet in the garage so I can't use my saw. Not being an
> electrician, can I plug it into the outlet used by the dryer? I know I will
> have to change the plug on my saw.
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
> Jim
>
>

Or change the dryer socket. Spose they would like it netter if you
changed your plug. As i recall the molded drier cables are/were just a
few $$.

As long as the panel breaker is at least the required capacity.. YES.


--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek

Andy Dingley wrote:
> It was somewhere outside Barstow when Unquestionably Confused
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>=20
>=20
>>Once again: The circuit breaker is there to protect the WIRING, NOT th=
e=20
>>appliance. The rating of the saw, etc. when stated as "Use only on 15 =

>>AMP circuit" states the MINIMUM rating for the circuit to which the saw=
=20
>>is connected.
>>
>>That essentially the logic behind the fact you don't have any one amp=20
>>circuit breakers protecting your electric toothbrush recharger, the=20
>>nightlight in the hallway, etc.
>=20
>=20
> Permit a naive question from a Brit
>=20
> So what does protect the saw ? Suppose there's a <bigamp> circuit
> feeding a circuit for the drier or the saw, and the saw only requires
> <littleamp> current.=20


> Is there a protective device anywhere to limit
> this <littleamp> current ? What about the 1A toothbrush ?
>=20

Not normally in the North American system...

Occasionally someone might use a power bar with a breaker, or a GFCI=20
outlet with a "breaker" or Circuit interrupter might be a better name.

It's just the way it is...

--=20
Will R.
Jewel Boxes and Wood Art
http://woodwork.pmccl.com
The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those=20
who have not got it.=94 George Bernard Shaw

Roy Smith wrote:
> "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Lights, either built in or table top types don't have fuses.
>
>
> I was surprised to learn recently that most incandescent bulbs are indeed
> protected by internal fuses. Here's a couple of links (search for the word
> "fuse" in either one).
>
> http://www.bulbs.com/lightingguide/tech_incandescentdiagram.asp
> http://members.misty.com/don/bulb1.html

Haven't convinced me. Interesting that the first
site show the construction, but doesn't show the
fuse, and then says there is a fuse. I've never
seen a regular screw in with a fuse; in fact I
have never seen any kind of incandescent bulb with
a built in fuse. In all case where the bulb
doesn't work, the element is either broken or
burned. In fact, a bulb is essentially a glowing
fuse. And, I have never seen a bulb that tripped
the line fuse/breaker. A fuse in a bulb, makes
not sense.

"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:H7D_d.5632$ed6.4260@trndny06:

>
>>> "Steven and Gail Peterson" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>> message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>
>>> > There is nothing magic about one kind of 220V over another, at
>>> > least in this 60 Hz country.
>
> Since this is electricity for the dryer, he will have the added
> advantage of being able to cut green wood and have it dried when the
> cut is done.
>

But he WILL have to use something other than the 4" dryer vent for dust
collection. DAMHIKT.

Patriarch

on 3/23/2005 4:27 PM Andy Dingley said the following:
> It was somewhere outside Barstow when Unquestionably Confused
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Once again: The circuit breaker is there to protect the WIRING, NOT the
>>appliance. The rating of the saw, etc. when stated as "Use only on 15
>>AMP circuit" states the MINIMUM rating for the circuit to which the saw
>>is connected.
>>
>>That essentially the logic behind the fact you don't have any one amp
>>circuit breakers protecting your electric toothbrush recharger, the
>>nightlight in the hallway, etc.
>
>
> Permit a naive question from a Brit
>
> So what does protect the saw ? Suppose there's a <bigamp> circuit
> feeding a circuit for the drier or the saw, and the saw only requires
> <littleamp> current. Is there a protective device anywhere to limit
> this <littleamp> current ? What about the 1A toothbrush ?

The device takes what it needs and no more. If it's defective it shorts
out and must be repaired or trashed. All that available current is not
going to hurt it.

Think about it for a minute in the context of your own home. You run
light bulbs on the same circuit as your television set don't you? Do you
also run a clock in the kitchen on the same circuit that you plug a
portable bread maker into? An electric frying pan? Coffee maker? What
protects them (light bulb or clock)? Nothing.

Any electrical equipment that needs current limiting provides its own.

I don't know why I didn't think of this before. I have a Sears Radial
Arm Saw. The motor for that saw has a reset button which provides
overload protection. Even though the circuit could provide enough
amperage to fry the wiring by overheating in a "stall" condition, the
overload sense the heat rise and shuts off power - just as a circuit
breaker does - before any damage is done. When you think about it, many
appliances or electronic devices have either a small fuse or internal
circuit breaker inside to protect them. What they are protecting the
device from is an INTERNAL fault, generally, not something in the power
feed.

I'm sure there are more learned explanations that neither you nor I
would understand but the basic is as previously stated. The circuit
breaker is there to protect the wiring so that it doesn't become a
resistance element and heat up the house by glowing cherry red within
the walls.

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 14:20:11 GMT, "Jim Jacobs"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I am currently living in a rental until our house is finished. There is no
>220 volt outlet in the garage so I can't use my saw. Not being an
>electrician, can I plug it into the outlet used by the dryer? I know I will
>have to change the plug on my saw.

Yes

Jim Jacobs <[email protected]> wrote:
>I am currently living in a rental until our house is finished. There is no
>220 volt outlet in the garage so I can't use my saw. Not being an
>electrician, can I plug it into the outlet used by the dryer? I know I will
>have to change the plug on my saw.

If it's an electric dryer, it's probably a dedicated 220V 30A circuit,
with a NEMA 14-30R (http://www.leviton.com/sections/techsupp/nema.htm).
This is a 4-wire plug, delivering two hots, a neutral, and ground.
There's 110V from either hot to neutral, and 220V from one hot to the
other.

You don't mention what kind of motor is in your Unisaw, so I'm assuming
it's the common 3HP, 220V. In theory, this needs a 220V 15A circuit, but
most people put them on a 20A circuit (mostly because it doesn't cost any
more to install the 20 and you might need it some day in the future).
The circuit you have now will work fine. You would need to put a 14-30P
plug on your unisaw. Your saw's cord will have 3 wires -- two hots and a
ground. The neutral pin on the 14-30P plug will be left unconnected.

Your dryer needs the neutral because it has internal components that need
110V (the controller, light, probably the motor that makes the drum go
around; only the heating element is on 220V). You saw only has the
220V motor, so it doesn't need the neutral.

Now that I've explained all that, please go hire an electrician to do the
work, or at least check what you've done. I've made a lot of guesses
above about what you've really got from your vague description, any of
which could be wrong.

Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
> If anything a lower rated circuit breaker is going to make the motor
> heat up more when under a strain because it is not getting enough
> power.

Ugh. Where do people get this stuff from? A breaker either stays
closed or it opens. If it's closed, the circuit will deliver as much
power as the load can draw (minus resistive losses in the wiring
itself). If it opens, there's no power delivered. There is no middle
ground where the breaker is not delivering "enough power".

"Teamcasa" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
>> Hehe. My wife will turn the thermostat *way* up, so that the house will
>> warm
>> up to the desired temperature faster. I can't seem to explain that the
>> air
>> coming out of the ducts is the same temperature when she puts it at 82°
>> as
>> it is when she puts it at 72°.
>> --
>> Jerry
>
> Its a concept foreign to everyone of my employees! I have locked all
> thermostats and I still find some set at 80° in the winter and 60° in the
> summer.
>
> Even after a lengthy and detailed explanation to my wife, she still thinks
> it warms or cools faster!!

please let me know if you ever come up with a way to explain this to your
wife. i need it for my wife also. i have the exact same discussion every
winter.

> Dave
>
>
> Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.usenet.com

WillR wrote:

> Roy Smith wrote:
>> Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>If anything a lower rated circuit breaker is going to make the motor
>>>heat up more when under a strain because it is not getting enough
>>>power.
>
> Enough current???? Have actually seen this -- in a failure mode of a
> breaker - ALTAIALFA (a long time ago in a land far away) But it was a
> handful of failures in thousands of machines. Highly unlikely -- but
> maybe not impossible. I will leave it to the EE's in the group who might
> want to debate this. I am sure that someone here can do some
> calculations and dig up some data to prove something. I certainly
> can't/won't these days.
>
>>
>>
>> Ugh. Where do people get this stuff from? A breaker either stays
>> closed or it opens. If it's closed, the circuit will deliver as much
>> power as the load can draw (minus resistive losses in the wiring
>> itself). If it opens, there's no power delivered. There is no middle
>> ground where the breaker is not delivering "enough power".
>
>
> And if the breaker fails by developing a higher resistance?

Then how does it make any difference if the breaker is rated for 1 amp or a
billion? If the failure is corrosion of the contacts or something else
that causes increased resistance in the contacts it's going to occur on a
breaker of any capacity.

The contacts are simply metal touching metal. They may be exactly the same
size in breakers with a very wide range of current capacities. What makes
the breaker "break" is a mechanism that opens those contacts, not anything
having to do with their innate properties.

> Actually
> seen this in a handful of failures out of many thousands of
> motor/breaker circuits in a manufacturing situation. I was just glad I
> could pass the analysis to someone competent. Again ALTAIALFA -- QA is
> probably a lot better and techniques have changed -- so it probably
> doesn't happen any more...

So? Having a larger breaker would have made no difference.

> I am beginning to wish that we had the Chemists equivalent of STP
> (Standard Temperature and Pressure)
>
> Then we could all say that when we mean when we say "normally" -- which
> isn't used often enough...
>
> Then we wouldn't debate this stuff unless it was egregious enuff to
> really rile us up. I am so MAD!!! Cause I saw some of these failures 30
> years ago and -- IT CAN HAPPEN! I SWEAR! TO DENY IT IS WRONG!!!!

There is no question that breakers can fail in various ways. The question
is whether using a larger one would eliminate the kind of malfunction that
you observed, and there is no reason to believe that it would.

> And I swore I would never post on one of these threads. But if a cool
> head like Robatoy can give at least one shot I will allow myself _once_.
>
>
> Did I mention I HATE COMPOUND MITER DESIGNS?
>
> I swear by the Red Green payer that I will do this no more. I swear...
>
>
> OKOK AMT. Breathe deep.
>
>

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"rob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:tjC_d.12941$Z07.162@trnddc02...
> I had a cutom 220 extension cord made to run a stream pressure washer
> (kerosene powered boiler) from my dryer outlet to by back yard driveway
> area. Worked great. You can buy the heavy cable and the plugs at HD or
> Lowes.

He asks in all innocence . . . "What's a stream pressure washer?"

(R, D, & G)

--
Nahmie
Those on the cutting edge bleed a lot.

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Jerry S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > > Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Ugh. Where do people get this stuff from? A breaker either stays
> > > closed or it opens. If it's closed, the circuit will deliver as much
> > > power as the load can draw (minus resistive losses in the wiring
> > > itself). If it opens, there's no power delivered. There is no middle
> > > ground where the breaker is not delivering "enough power".
> >
> > Hehe. My wife will turn the thermostat *way* up, so that the house will
> warm
> > up to the desired temperature faster. I can't seem to explain that the
> air
> > coming out of the ducts is the same temperature when she puts it at 82°
as
> > it is when she puts it at 72°.
>
> Oh hell - that's nothin'. Ask anyone of us that live in cold country what
> the first the wife does when she jumps into the cold car... Reaches
across
> the car and turns the damn blower on full. Can't explain to her that
she's
> making us colder by doing that and she has to wait for the engine to heat
> up.
>

Now justaminnit! How many of us are married to this same woman who does this
with the house thermostat & heater blower? Mine also used to do this when we
had a "fancy" car(69 Imperial) with the thermostat controlled heater system.

--
Nahmie
Those on the cutting edge bleed a lot.

Typically MIG welders use a different plug,; there are about four common
types which are not interchanable with any of the myriad of standard dryer
receptacles.
Mark


"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 14:20:11 GMT, "Jim Jacobs"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>I am currently living in a rental until our house is finished. There is
> >>no
> >>220 volt outlet in the garage so I can't use my saw. Not being an
> >>electrician, can I plug it into the outlet used by the dryer? I know I
> >>will
> >>have to change the plug on my saw.
>
> Dryer sockets are commonly used for many welding "buzzboxes". And they
draw
> a lot more amps than most saws.
>
> Just look on the electrical panel to make sure that you have enough amps
on
> that circuit.
>
>
>

Typically a dryer will draw more amperage than a table saw.
Checking the wiring is a good odea, but 8 G and 40 amps to support an
electric dryer would not be uncommon.
Since we don't know the table saw specs it makes speculation a little more
difficult. My contractors saw is 220 and draws about 12 amps over 10 gauge
with a 20 Amp breaker...more than sufficient. Even if he has 10 G wiring
and 30 amp breaker which should be minimal at best for an electric dryer,
this should support any common cabinet saw.
I have no problem wiring, but given the situation, I'd hire an electrician
to add the circuit. Chances are the panel is in or near the garage - should
be an easy run.
Mark

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> hylourgos wrote:
> > OK, let's assume you can check the wiring gauge size at the panel or
> at
> > the outlet. If it happens to be beefy enough to handle, say, a 30A
> > breaker, is it then safe to switch out to that larger capacity
> breaker?
> >
> > H.
>
> If you don't know, ask an electrician to look at it for you. To many
> variables such as type of wire, type of insulation, length of run, etc.
>

In article <[email protected]>,
WillR <[email protected]> wrote:


>
> As long as the panel breaker is at least the required capacity.. YES.

Will...you didn't even ask if those were metric or Imperial volts. So
how can you be so sure?

In article <[email protected]>,
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Several took the bait.

The Popiet PocketFisherman LIVES!!!!

Congratulations...LOL

In article <[email protected]>,
WillR <[email protected]> wrote:

> Would a 2 Liter Bottle of Don Pedro Brandy be acceptable?


> A recent
> visitor left it here...

I know why....LOL That stuff was made to build up courage for the day
when they run the bulls.
2 Litres, no less. Don't you need a permit for that?

waitasec... you're not trying to hurt me, are you?!?!?

In article <[email protected]>,
Richard Clements <[email protected]> wrote:

> Doug Miller wrote:
>
> > In article <[email protected]>, Richard Clements
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>how about the wiring in the saw?
> >
> > No.
> >
> > --
> > Regards,
> > Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
> >
> > Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
> > And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
>
> you know that was a joke Right? just making sure
>

yup

In article <[email protected]>,
Unquestionably Confused <[email protected]> wrote:

> on 3/18/2005 12:13 PM Steven and Gail Peterson said the following:
> > OK, I will admit to the assumption that a dryer has a higher amp rating
> > than
> > a table saw. A 30 or 40 amp table saw would be a real monster. Like a
> > sawmill. I would go for a circuit breaker that trips near (but above) the
> > saw spec, so it does provide protection.
>
> Once again: The circuit breaker is there to protect the WIRING, NOT the
> appliance. The rating of the saw, etc. when stated as "Use only on 15
> AMP circuit" states the MINIMUM rating for the circuit to which the saw
> is connected.
>
> That essentially the logic behind the fact you don't have any one amp
> circuit breakers protecting your electric toothbrush recharger, the
> nightlight in the hallway, etc.
>
> The circuit breaker protects the wiring, not the saw. The circuit
> breaker protects the wiring, not the saw. The circuit breaker protects
> the wiring, not the saw. The circuit breaker protects the wiring, not
> the saw. The circuit breaker protects the wiring, not the saw. The
> circuit breaker protects the wiring, not the saw. The circuit breaker
> protects the wiring, not the saw. The circuit breaker protects the
> wiring, not the saw. The circuit breaker protects the wiring, not the
> saw. The circuit breaker protects the wiring, not the saw. The circuit
> breaker protects the wiring, not the saw. The circuit breaker protects
> the wiring, not the saw.

The wiring? Not the saw?

"Steven and Gail Peterson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> There is nothing magic about one kind of 220V over another, at least in
> this 60 Hz country. But you might want to change the circuit breaker to
> match the saw requirement. You could also change the outlet to match the
> saw, instead of the other way around. Six of one-half a dozen of the
> other.


Ok, changing the circuit breaker is a waste of time and money and could be
quite dangerous if you increase its rating.

on 3/18/2005 12:13 PM Steven and Gail Peterson said the following:
> OK, I will admit to the assumption that a dryer has a higher amp rating than
> a table saw. A 30 or 40 amp table saw would be a real monster. Like a
> sawmill. I would go for a circuit breaker that trips near (but above) the
> saw spec, so it does provide protection.

Once again: The circuit breaker is there to protect the WIRING, NOT the
appliance. The rating of the saw, etc. when stated as "Use only on 15
AMP circuit" states the MINIMUM rating for the circuit to which the saw
is connected.

That essentially the logic behind the fact you don't have any one amp
circuit breakers protecting your electric toothbrush recharger, the
nightlight in the hallway, etc.

The circuit breaker protects the wiring, not the saw. The circuit
breaker protects the wiring, not the saw. The circuit breaker protects
the wiring, not the saw. The circuit breaker protects the wiring, not
the saw. The circuit breaker protects the wiring, not the saw. The
circuit breaker protects the wiring, not the saw. The circuit breaker
protects the wiring, not the saw. The circuit breaker protects the
wiring, not the saw. The circuit breaker protects the wiring, not the
saw. The circuit breaker protects the wiring, not the saw. The circuit
breaker protects the wiring, not the saw. The circuit breaker protects
the wiring, not the saw.

"> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 14:20:11 GMT, "Jim Jacobs"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I am currently living in a rental until our house is finished. There is
>>no
>>220 volt outlet in the garage so I can't use my saw. Not being an
>>electrician, can I plug it into the outlet used by the dryer? I know I
>>will
>>have to change the plug on my saw.

Dryer sockets are commonly used for many welding "buzzboxes". And they draw
a lot more amps than most saws.

Just look on the electrical panel to make sure that you have enough amps on
that circuit.

"Jerry S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>> Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Ugh. Where do people get this stuff from? A breaker either stays
>> closed or it opens. If it's closed, the circuit will deliver as much
>> power as the load can draw (minus resistive losses in the wiring
>> itself). If it opens, there's no power delivered. There is no middle
>> ground where the breaker is not delivering "enough power".
>
> Hehe. My wife will turn the thermostat *way* up, so that the house will
> warm
> up to the desired temperature faster. I can't seem to explain that the
> air
> coming out of the ducts is the same temperature when she puts it at 82° as
> it is when she puts it at 72°.
> --
> Jerry
>
>
>

It's like a former roommate who turned up the heat on a boiling (open) pot
so the food would cook faster. No amount of explaining about the boiling
point of water would convince him otherwise.

In article <[email protected]>, Richard Clements <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>how about the wiring in the saw?

No.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

"Jim Jacobs" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am currently living in a rental until our house is finished. There is no
>220 volt outlet in the garage so I can't use my saw. Not being an
>electrician, can I plug it into the outlet used by the dryer? I know I
>will have to change the plug on my saw.


Yes you can providing the amp rating is high enough. More than likely it
is. Mine shares that circuit and I can run the dryer and TS at the same
time. I did not want either to interrupt the other.

It was somewhere outside Barstow when Unquestionably Confused
<[email protected]> wrote:

> What protects them (light bulb or clock)? Nothing.

On the contrary - the UK system would give them their own 1A fuse, in
the plug.

In my house I have one style of socket, and I can use it for
everything from the 3HP cabinet saw or welder down to an unearthed
tiny-current clock. All appliances get protected appropriately.

Robatoy wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> WillR <[email protected]> wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
>>As long as the panel breaker is at least the required capacity.. YES.
>=20
>=20
> Will...you didn't even ask if those were metric or Imperial volts. So=20
> how can you be so sure?


Whew. Now you did, and have covered up my _embarrassing mistake_ How can =

I ever thank you?

Would a 2 Liter Bottle of Don Pedro Brandy be acceptable? A recent=20
visitor left it here...


--=20
Will R.
Jewel Boxes and Wood Art
http://woodwork.pmccl.com
The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those=20
who have not got it.=94 George Bernard Shaw

In article <T%[email protected]>,
"George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Roy Smith wrote:
> > "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>Lights, either built in or table top types don't have fuses.
> >
> >
> > I was surprised to learn recently that most incandescent bulbs are indeed
> > protected by internal fuses. Here's a couple of links (search for the word
> > "fuse" in either one).
> >
> > http://www.bulbs.com/lightingguide/tech_incandescentdiagram.asp
> > http://members.misty.com/don/bulb1.html
>
> Haven't convinced me. Interesting that the first
> site show the construction, but doesn't show the
> fuse, and then says there is a fuse.

My guess is that the unlabeled arrow on the left should have said "fuse
wire" but got cropped off the image for some reason.

The text in the 2nd link above seems pretty clear -- one of the internal
wires is intentionally thinned, and this thin section acts as a fuse. It
also explains the reason why -- to protect against shorts caused by
internal arcing. Makes a lot of sense to me.

Here's another couple of URLs. The first one has a particularly clear
diagram:

http://www.goodmart.com/facts/light_bulbs/incan_diagram.aspx
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/devices/lightbulb/label/

"George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Lights, either built in or table top types don't have fuses.

I was surprised to learn recently that most incandescent bulbs are indeed
protected by internal fuses. Here's a couple of links (search for the word
"fuse" in either one).

http://www.bulbs.com/lightingguide/tech_incandescentdiagram.asp
http://members.misty.com/don/bulb1.html

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 15:12:03 -0700, "Charles Spitzer"
<[email protected]> scribbled:
>"Teamcasa" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> >
>>> Hehe. My wife will turn the thermostat *way* up, so that the house will
>>> warm up to the desired temperature faster. I can't seem to explain that
>>> the air coming out of the ducts is the same temperature when she puts
>>> it at 82° as it is when she puts it at 72°.
>>
>> Its a concept foreign to everyone of my employees! I have locked all
>> thermostats and I still find some set at 80° in the winter and 60° in the
>> summer.
>>
>> Even after a lengthy and detailed explanation to my wife, she still thinks
>> it warms or cools faster!!
>
>please let me know if you ever come up with a way to explain this to your
>wife. i need it for my wife also. i have the exact same discussion every
>winter.

Try the old landlord trick (which I learned from an electrical
contractor): Hide the real thermostat somewhere (like in the ceiling)
and leave a fake thermostat for people to play with.

Luigi
Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email address
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/humour.html
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/antifaq.html

I had a cutom 220 extension cord made to run a stream pressure washer
(kerosene powered boiler) from my dryer outlet to by back yard driveway
area. Worked great. You can buy the heavy cable and the plugs at HD or
Lowes.
"Jim Jacobs" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am currently living in a rental until our house is finished. There is no
>220 volt outlet in the garage so I can't use my saw. Not being an
>electrician, can I plug it into the outlet used by the dryer? I know I
>will have to change the plug on my saw.
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
> Jim
>

Andy Dingley wrote:
> It was somewhere outside Barstow when Unquestionably Confused
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Ah, I see. This is that "ring" or circular scheme that you or one of
>>your countrymen was mentioning when this thread first started, correct?
>
>
> Yes. The ring has a 32A breaker protecting it against wiring faults.
> Appliances are protected by the plug fuse.
>
>
>>What kind of fuse do you have in the plug for your 3HP cabinet saw or
>>welder?
>
>
> Biggest plug fuse is a 13A (for 230V), which is what the saw uses.
>

I think you are getting a lot of BS from some
people. Yes the circuit breaker protects the
wiring. And, yes, lots of appliances have a fuse
to protect the appliance. Lights, either built in
or table top types don't have fuses. Most
electronic equipment has fuses and most motors or
appliances with motors have a fuse or circuit
breaker that turns it off it the motor gets too
hot. Coffee pots and other heat devices usually
have a fuse. None of these fuses are in the plug
but in the appliance itself.

You might say that the U.S. system is less safe,
but actual fires and fire deaths in residences are
fairly low and continue to decline. Carelessness
is the major cause of fires,e.g., burning weeds
sets the house on fire or a guy falls asleep with
a cigarette. Fires from appliance failures are
relatively rare in homes.

There is nothing magic about one kind of 220V over another, at least in this
60 Hz country. But you might want to change the circuit breaker to match
the saw requirement. You could also change the outlet to match the saw,
instead of the other way around. Six of one-half a dozen of the other.

Steve

"Jim Jacobs" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am currently living in a rental until our house is finished. There is no
>220 volt outlet in the garage so I can't use my saw. Not being an
>electrician, can I plug it into the outlet used by the dryer? I know I
>will have to change the plug on my saw.
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
> Jim
>

Roy Smith wrote:
> Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>=20
>>If anything a lower rated circuit breaker is going to make the motor
>>heat up more when under a strain because it is not getting enough
>>power.

Enough current???? Have actually seen this -- in a failure mode of a=20
breaker - ALTAIALFA (a long time ago in a land far away) But it was a=20
handful of failures in thousands of machines. Highly unlikely -- but=20
maybe not impossible. I will leave it to the EE's in the group who might =

want to debate this. I am sure that someone here can do some=20
calculations and dig up some data to prove something. I certainly=20
can't/won't these days.

>=20
>=20
> Ugh. Where do people get this stuff from? A breaker either stays
> closed or it opens. If it's closed, the circuit will deliver as much
> power as the load can draw (minus resistive losses in the wiring
> itself). If it opens, there's no power delivered. There is no middle
> ground where the breaker is not delivering "enough power".


And if the breaker fails by developing a higher resistance? Actually=20
seen this in a handful of failures out of many thousands of=20
motor/breaker circuits in a manufacturing situation. I was just glad I=20
could pass the analysis to someone competent. Again ALTAIALFA -- QA is=20
probably a lot better and techniques have changed -- so it probably=20
doesn't happen any more...



I am beginning to wish that we had the Chemists equivalent of STP=20
(Standard Temperature and Pressure)

Then we could all say that when we mean when we say "normally" -- which=20
isn't used often enough...

Then we wouldn't debate this stuff unless it was egregious enuff to=20
really rile us up. I am so MAD!!! Cause I saw some of these failures 30=20
years ago and -- IT CAN HAPPEN! I SWEAR! TO DENY IT IS WRONG!!!!

And I swore I would never post on one of these threads. But if a cool=20
head like Robatoy can give at least one shot I will allow myself _once_.


Did I mention I HATE COMPOUND MITER DESIGNS?

I swear by the Red Green payer that I will do this no more. I swear...


OKOK AMT. Breathe deep.


--=20
Will R.
Jewel Boxes and Wood Art
http://woodwork.pmccl.com
The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those=20
who have not got it.=94 George Bernard Shaw