On Topic!
It won't be for the bathroom, actually, but for my daughter's room. I
envision a shallow cabinet (for makeup and sundry paraphernalia) with a
hinged mirrored door; like a panel door, but with a mirror where the
panel would go. It would probably measure 18" x 24" x 4".
I'd like to think of a design that could be built simply, as I'd like my
(17 y.o.) daughter to be able to do much of the building. That is in
fact the main goal of the project. She seems up for it.
As this will be a case of the "partially-sighted leading the blind", I'm
open to suggestions, but a couple of initial questions come to mind:
Will I need some sort of "backer" for the mirror, or could a
sufficiently thick piece of glass suffice on its own? How should I hold
it in? I assume a rabbet from behind the frame, and "points", if that's
the right term.
I'm thinking of making the joinery simple by using pocket screws, even
perhaps to assemble the door. Is this a stupid idea in any way?
Thanks in advance.
"-MIKE-" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
On 6/14/12 3:17 PM, dadiOH wrote:
>> I'm thinking of making the joinery simple by using pocket screws, even
>> perhaps to assemble the door. Is this a stupid idea in any way?
> OK for the box, not so good for door. If you use it for the door I'd
> suggest 1/4" T&G for the frame members too.
Mine is 1/4" glass and I used pocket screws with glue. Granted, you're
probably talking about just pocket screws, which is a different animal.
But in either case, I would argue properly sized pocket screws are
plenty strong enough.
==================================================================
I agree. Pocket holes and glue.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 6/14/2012 9:28 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
> On Topic!
>
> It won't be for the bathroom, actually, but for my daughter's room. I
> envision a shallow cabinet (for makeup and sundry paraphernalia) with a
> hinged mirrored door; like a panel door, but with a mirror where the
> panel would go. It would probably measure 18" x 24" x 4".
>
> I'd like to think of a design that could be built simply, as I'd like my
> (17 y.o.) daughter to be able to do much of the building. That is in
> fact the main goal of the project. She seems up for it.
Seriously consider finding and buying the mirror first, then build the
project to the mirror. Usually cheaper in the long run, and a better fit.
It will be a cherished moment to build it with you daughter.
My youngest daughter and I did this one together in her sophomore year
in high school. It was her first design attempt and, ten years later and
after boomeranging back from college, and a couple of years on her own,
it is still her own bedside table:
http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/BedsideStand1.JPG
Good luck, and carry through with the joint father/daughter building of
the project, you will cherish the memory forever, guaranteed.
--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop
tiredofspam wrote:
> The silicone was for the front rabbet.
> And not all silicone is the same.
>
> Some will eat electrical components and some are made for electrical
> components... same deal with mirrors. Use one with out the acetic acid
> smell and it will be fine.
>
> Same with the push points, they were meant to back up the silicone to
> the front bead. So if installed in the back they are just reinforcing
> the silicone which is way strong.
>
Perhaps true, but time has proven that the simple insertion of points is all
that is necesary. You're not building to withstand an earthquake, so use
what the project requires.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
-MIKE- wrote:
> On 6/14/12 3:17 PM, dadiOH wrote:
>>> I'm thinking of making the joinery simple by using pocket screws,
>>> even perhaps to assemble the door. Is this a stupid idea in any way?
>> OK for the box, not so good for door. If you use it for the door I'd
>> suggest 1/4" T&G for the frame members too.
>
> Mine is 1/4" glass and I used pocket screws with glue. Granted, you're
> probably talking about just pocket screws, which is a different
> animal. But in either case, I would argue properly sized pocket
> screws are plenty strong enough.
Agreed. Properly glued joints would even be strong enough, but I too prefer
some sort of additional mechanical joint. M&T could be fine, as has been
suggested, pocket screws, bisquits, etc.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Jun 15, 8:37=A0am, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Greg Guarino wrote:
> > On 6/14/2012 4:17 PM, dadiOH wrote:
> >> Greg Guarino wrote:
> >>> On Topic!
>
> >>> It won't be for the bathroom, actually, but for my daughter's room.
> >>> I envision a shallow cabinet (for makeup and sundry paraphernalia)
> >>> with a hinged mirrored door; like a panel door, but with a mirror
> >>> where the panel would go. It would probably measure 18" x 24" x 4".
>
> >>> I'd like to think of a design that could be built simply, as I'd
> >>> like my (17 y.o.) daughter to be able to do much of the building.
> >>> That is in fact the main goal of the project. She seems up for it.
>
> >>> As this will be a case of the "partially-sighted leading the blind",
> >>> I'm open to suggestions, but a couple of initial questions come to
> >>> mind:
> >>> Will I need some sort of "backer" for the mirror, or could a
> >>> sufficiently thick piece of glass suffice on its own? How should I
> >>> hold it in? I assume a rabbet from behind the frame, and "points",
> >>> if that's the right term.
>
> >> I don't know if you NEED a backer but I'd put one. =A0Probably 1/8"
> >> lauan ("door skin"). =A0I'd use 1/8" mirror too...set both into a 1/4"
> >> rabbet iin the back of a mortise& =A0tenon frame, hold them in place
> >> with thin wood strips glued on. =A0I'm suggesting the light, thin
> >> mirror in case the frame joinery isn't quite up to snuff; you can
> >> get plastic mirror too...it is light weight but scratches fairly
> >> easily.
>
> > I appreciate the subtle hint that the door will need to be especially
> > precise to accept glass, especially as my skills are modest. But the
> > flatness of the mirror is probably non-negotiable. (I know my "client"
> > well) I believe I can lay my hands on a suitably-sized piece of old,
> > but never used, 1/4" glass mirror.
>
> >>> I'm thinking of making the joinery simple by using pocket screws,
> >>> even perhaps to assemble the door. Is this a stupid idea in any way?
>
> >> OK for the box, not so good for door. =A0If you use it for the door I'=
d
> >> suggest 1/4" T&G for the frame members too.
>
> > I'm trying to imagine how that would work. Are you suggesting putting
> > the glass in the groove?
>
> No, I was thinking of T&G just where the rails & stiles meet. =A0I guess =
you
> could go full out on them and put the glass in. =A0Just don't ever break =
it
> :)
>
> --
>
> dadiOH
> ____________________________
>
> Winters getting colder? =A0Tired of the rat race?
> Maybe just ready for a change? =A0Check it out...http://www.floridaloghou=
se.net
OK. Indulge my ignorance for a moment then. How would I make the
stopped mortise? 1/4" straight router bit?
dadiOH wrote:
>
> I don't know if you NEED a backer but I'd put one. Probably 1/8"
> lauan ("door skin"). I'd use 1/8" mirror too...set both into a 1/4"
> rabbet iin the back of a mortise & tenon frame, hold them in place
> with thin wood strips glued on. I'm suggesting the light, thin
> mirror in case the frame joinery isn't quite up to snuff; you can get
> plastic mirror too...it is light weight but scratches fairly easily.
I would not do the wood strips. If you ever need to remove that mirror for
any reason down the road, you stand a better chance of breaking it, just
trying to get the glued in wood strips out. One can over engineer a simple
project. M&T framing is a design choice. Much more simple joinery would
work just as well. Perhaps you were just expressing your preference?
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Swingman" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On 6/14/2012 9:28 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
> On Topic!
>
> It won't be for the bathroom, actually, but for my daughter's room. I
> envision a shallow cabinet (for makeup and sundry paraphernalia) with a
> hinged mirrored door; like a panel door, but with a mirror where the
> panel would go. It would probably measure 18" x 24" x 4".
>
> I'd like to think of a design that could be built simply, as I'd like my
> (17 y.o.) daughter to be able to do much of the building. That is in
> fact the main goal of the project. She seems up for it.
Seriously consider finding and buying the mirror first, then build the
project to the mirror. Usually cheaper in the long run, and a better fit.
=============================================================
Yes, get the mirror first. Even if custom cut, the mirror might not be quite
the dimension planned for.
-MIKE- wrote:
> It's not a matter of holding up. No backer will keep glass from
> breaking. It's a matter of safely. If the mirror breaks, the backer
> holds it together and keeps the sharp pieces from flying all over the
> place. Not that one will likely injure you in the process of flying,
> but we're talking about a room in which you spend most of your time
> barefoot. How many times have you broken a glass in the kitchen,
> swept the entire floor and still found stray pieces a week later?
>
> But lets say you do slip and fall and put your hand up to catch
> yourself and it goes into the mirror on the medicine cabinet. You are
> much less likely to put your hand through the mirror with a good,
> adhered backer.
> Sure, we all have had shower doors for years and years and they've
> never broken... but man, just think if one did when you slipped in
> the shower. Thank God those things are tempered glass. Heck, I might
> even consider tempered glass for a moving mirror.
Ok - I understand where you are coming from. Thx...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
The silicone was for the front rabbet.
And not all silicone is the same.
Some will eat electrical components and some are made for electrical
components... same deal with mirrors. Use one with out the acetic acid
smell and it will be fine.
Same with the push points, they were meant to back up the silicone to
the front bead. So if installed in the back they are just reinforcing
the silicone which is way strong.
>>
>> You could simply silicone the mirror in after finishing the project, not
>> before. If you back it with wood you could use the silicone for the
>> mirror in spots then points (for pictures and glass mounted on wood) for
>> the backing. You use a screw driver to drive the points into the wood.
>> The easiest method.
>
> you can't use silicone on the back of mirror. it will eventually eat
> through the paint and silvering. if you're going to glue mirror to
> something, use mirror mastic instead. that's what it's designed for.
No pocket screws for the door. It won't be strong enough for constant
use that a teenager will put it through.
Either coped or M&T..
___You don't need a backing for the mirror___ but it is a good idea. If
she were to stick something in that fell over and closed the door a
little harder, and it happened to be in the middle it could break the
glass. Unlikely but could.. With a clear piece of glass you would see
the fallen object, with a mirror maybe not. Depends on how mature she is...
You could simply silicone the mirror in after finishing the project, not
before. If you back it with wood you could use the silicone for the
mirror in spots then points (for pictures and glass mounted on wood)
for the backing. You use a screw driver to drive the points into the
wood. The easiest method.
Having her build it would be great. I think every kid needs to learn
something like this. What do you think you will use for shelves?
Wood, glass? Adjustable?
On 6/14/2012 10:28 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
> On Topic!
>
> It won't be for the bathroom, actually, but for my daughter's room. I
> envision a shallow cabinet (for makeup and sundry paraphernalia) with a
> hinged mirrored door; like a panel door, but with a mirror where the
> panel would go. It would probably measure 18" x 24" x 4".
>
> I'd like to think of a design that could be built simply, as I'd like my
> (17 y.o.) daughter to be able to do much of the building. That is in
> fact the main goal of the project. She seems up for it.
>
> As this will be a case of the "partially-sighted leading the blind", I'm
> open to suggestions, but a couple of initial questions come to mind:
>
> Will I need some sort of "backer" for the mirror, or could a
> sufficiently thick piece of glass suffice on its own? How should I hold
> it in? I assume a rabbet from behind the frame, and "points", if that's
> the right term.
>
> I'm thinking of making the joinery simple by using pocket screws, even
> perhaps to assemble the door. Is this a stupid idea in any way?
>
> Thanks in advance.
Greg, here are the points that I am referring to.
http://tinyurl.com/7kmhukq
> You could simply silicone the mirror in after finishing the project, not
> before. If you back it with wood you could use the silicone for the
> mirror in spots then points (for pictures and glass mounted on wood) for
> the backing. You use a screw driver to drive the points into the wood.
> The easiest method.
-MIKE- wrote:
>
> You absolutely want a backer. Most mirrors (probably all sold at
> glass stores) will already have one applied. If you're recycling an
> old mirror that does not, it could be as simple as some thick contact
> paper. Don't listen to anyone who says you don't need it. Of course
> you don't "need" it... you don't "need" seat belts either. :-)
Why do you say that Mike? I have seen tons of dressers and vanities that
have had unbacked mirrors, and they have held up just fine over decades.
Now you have me curious...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
tiredofspam wrote:
> The silicone was for the front rabbet.
> And not all silicone is the same.
>
> Some will eat electrical components and some are made for electrical
> components... same deal with mirrors. Use one with out the acetic acid
> smell and it will be fine.
>
> Same with the push points, they were meant to back up the silicone to
> the front bead. So if installed in the back they are just reinforcing
> the silicone which is way strong.
>
Perhaps true, but time has proven that the simple insertion of points is all
that is necesary. You're not building to withstand an earthquake, so use
what the project requires.
=====================================================================
He's building to withstand a teenager. About the same stress.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On 6/14/12 9:28 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
> On Topic!
>
> It won't be for the bathroom, actually, but for my daughter's room. I
> envision a shallow cabinet (for makeup and sundry paraphernalia) with a
> hinged mirrored door; like a panel door, but with a mirror where the
> panel would go. It would probably measure 18" x 24" x 4".
>
> I'd like to think of a design that could be built simply, as I'd like my
> (17 y.o.) daughter to be able to do much of the building. That is in
> fact the main goal of the project. She seems up for it.
>
I just built one of these and it is indeed a really simple woodworking
project.
<https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/LQ5LO8Gml3TdhSlEj8PDP9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink>
> As this will be a case of the "partially-sighted leading the blind", I'm
> open to suggestions, but a couple of initial questions come to mind:
>
> Will I need some sort of "backer" for the mirror, or could a
> sufficiently thick piece of glass suffice on its own?
You absolutely want a backer. Most mirrors (probably all sold at glass
stores) will already have one applied. If you're recycling an old
mirror that does not, it could be as simple as some thick contact paper.
Don't listen to anyone who says you don't need it. Of course you
don't "need" it... you don't "need" seat belts either. :-)
> How should I hold
> it in? I assume a rabbet from behind the frame, and "points", if that's
> the right term.
>
I recycled some mirror holding clips from an old framed mirror. They
were simple pieces of hardened spring metal held on by small screws.
There are a million different mirror clips out there.
> I'm thinking of making the joinery simple by using pocket screws, even
> perhaps to assemble the door. Is this a stupid idea in any way?
>
> Thanks in advance.
Pocket screws are very strong, but I usually glue the joint if I know
it's going to be permanent. Pocket holes are a great way to clamp a
joint if you don't have a lot of clamps. For the box on my cabinet, I
used simple rabbet/dado joint.
http://www.timberframe-tools.com/ref/handwork-wood/images/266-26.png
Pocket holes/glue could work for the door as well. If you decide on
mitered corner joints, cut the recess/rabbet for the mirror in the stock
before you cut it into the tops and sides. For square corner joints,
like rail & stile cabinet doors, you may not want to put in the recess
until after you cut the pieces, because they will be stopped on two pieces.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 6/14/12 9:43 AM, tiredofspam wrote:
> Greg, here are the points that I am referring to.
> http://tinyurl.com/7kmhukq
>
>
>> You could simply silicone the mirror in after finishing the project, not
>> before. If you back it with wood you could use the silicone for the
>> mirror in spots then points (for pictures and glass mounted on wood) for
>> the backing. You use a screw driver to drive the points into the wood.
>> The easiest method.
Those points are made to hold glass underneath glazing. They aren't
designed for screws. There a a bazillion other mirror clips designed for
screws that would be much easier and hold better.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 6/14/2012 7:40 AM, tiredofspam wrote:
> No pocket screws for the door. It won't be strong enough for constant
> use that a teenager will put it through.
>
> Either coped or M&T..
>
> ___You don't need a backing for the mirror___ but it is a good idea. If
> she were to stick something in that fell over and closed the door a
> little harder, and it happened to be in the middle it could break the
> glass. Unlikely but could.. With a clear piece of glass you would see
> the fallen object, with a mirror maybe not. Depends on how mature she is...
>
> You could simply silicone the mirror in after finishing the project, not
> before. If you back it with wood you could use the silicone for the
> mirror in spots then points (for pictures and glass mounted on wood) for
> the backing. You use a screw driver to drive the points into the wood.
> The easiest method.
you can't use silicone on the back of mirror. it will eventually eat
through the paint and silvering. if you're going to glue mirror to
something, use mirror mastic instead. that's what it's designed for.
when i make stained glass panels with mirror in them, i use rubber
cement to glue craft paper (heavy shopping paper bags, if small enough)
to the back to protect against scratching through the paint and
silvering. i do like the contact paper idea further downthread. that
would prevent glass shards from spreading far if it broke in place.
> Having her build it would be great. I think every kid needs to learn
> something like this. What do you think you will use for shelves?
> Wood, glass? Adjustable?
>
> On 6/14/2012 10:28 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>> On Topic!
>>
>> It won't be for the bathroom, actually, but for my daughter's room. I
>> envision a shallow cabinet (for makeup and sundry paraphernalia) with a
>> hinged mirrored door; like a panel door, but with a mirror where the
>> panel would go. It would probably measure 18" x 24" x 4".
>>
>> I'd like to think of a design that could be built simply, as I'd like my
>> (17 y.o.) daughter to be able to do much of the building. That is in
>> fact the main goal of the project. She seems up for it.
>>
>> As this will be a case of the "partially-sighted leading the blind", I'm
>> open to suggestions, but a couple of initial questions come to mind:
>>
>> Will I need some sort of "backer" for the mirror, or could a
>> sufficiently thick piece of glass suffice on its own? How should I hold
>> it in? I assume a rabbet from behind the frame, and "points", if that's
>> the right term.
>>
>> I'm thinking of making the joinery simple by using pocket screws, even
>> perhaps to assemble the door. Is this a stupid idea in any way?
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
On 6/14/2012 10:40 AM, tiredofspam wrote:
> What do you think you will use for shelves?
> Wood, glass? Adjustable?
I'm not sure yet. I don't think they'll need to be adjustable though. If
I can stomach the extra complication, I may consider some sort of
external tray at the bottom - something with a lip, or possibly even
drilled holes (a "tool rack" if you will) to hold whatever primping
supplies are in use at the moment.
On 6/14/2012 2:14 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 6/14/2012 9:28 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>> On Topic!
>>
>> It won't be for the bathroom, actually, but for my daughter's room. I
>> envision a shallow cabinet (for makeup and sundry paraphernalia) with a
>> hinged mirrored door; like a panel door, but with a mirror where the
>> panel would go. It would probably measure 18" x 24" x 4".
>>
>> I'd like to think of a design that could be built simply, as I'd like my
>> (17 y.o.) daughter to be able to do much of the building. That is in
>> fact the main goal of the project. She seems up for it.
>
> Seriously consider finding and buying the mirror first, then build the
> project to the mirror. Usually cheaper in the long run, and a better fit.
Thanks. I'm a novice, but that's the way my mind works too.
> It will be a cherished moment to build it with you daughter.
>
> My youngest daughter and I did this one together in her sophomore year
> in high school. It was her first design attempt and, ten years later and
> after boomeranging back from college, and a couple of years on her own,
> it is still her own bedside table:
>
> http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/BedsideStand1.JPG
Looks great, but *I'd* probably need to be the "student" on a project
like that. :)
> Good luck, and carry through with the joint father/daughter building of
> the project, you will cherish the memory forever, guaranteed.
I think it's a great idea, and overdue as well, but exactly the kind of
thing that usually gets pushed aside by the demands of everyday life.
Your encouragement above is much appreciated. Maybe it will help keep
the idea on the front burner long enough to make it happen.
Greg Guarino wrote:
> On Topic!
>
> It won't be for the bathroom, actually, but for my daughter's room. I
> envision a shallow cabinet (for makeup and sundry paraphernalia) with
> a hinged mirrored door; like a panel door, but with a mirror where the
> panel would go. It would probably measure 18" x 24" x 4".
>
> I'd like to think of a design that could be built simply, as I'd like
> my (17 y.o.) daughter to be able to do much of the building. That is
> in fact the main goal of the project. She seems up for it.
>
> As this will be a case of the "partially-sighted leading the blind",
> I'm open to suggestions, but a couple of initial questions come to
> mind:
> Will I need some sort of "backer" for the mirror, or could a
> sufficiently thick piece of glass suffice on its own? How should I
> hold it in? I assume a rabbet from behind the frame, and "points", if
> that's the right term.
I don't know if you NEED a backer but I'd put one. Probably 1/8" lauan
("door skin"). I'd use 1/8" mirror too...set both into a 1/4" rabbet iin
the back of a mortise & tenon frame, hold them in place with thin wood
strips glued on. I'm suggesting the light, thin mirror in case the frame
joinery isn't quite up to snuff; you can get plastic mirror too...it is
light weight but scratches fairly easily.
>
> I'm thinking of making the joinery simple by using pocket screws, even
> perhaps to assemble the door. Is this a stupid idea in any way?
OK for the box, not so good for door. If you use it for the door I'd
suggest 1/4" T&G for the frame members too.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net
On 6/14/12 2:45 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote:
>
>>
>> You absolutely want a backer. Most mirrors (probably all sold at
>> glass stores) will already have one applied. If you're recycling an
>> old mirror that does not, it could be as simple as some thick contact
>> paper. Don't listen to anyone who says you don't need it. Of course
>> you don't "need" it... you don't "need" seat belts either. :-)
>
> Why do you say that Mike? I have seen tons of dressers and vanities that
> have had unbacked mirrors, and they have held up just fine over decades.
> Now you have me curious...
>
>
It's not a matter of holding up. No backer will keep glass from breaking.
It's a matter of safely. If the mirror breaks, the backer holds it
together and keeps the sharp pieces from flying all over the place. Not
that one will likely injure you in the process of flying, but we're
talking about a room in which you spend most of your time barefoot. How
many times have you broken a glass in the kitchen, swept the entire floor
and still found stray pieces a week later?
But lets say you do slip and fall and put your hand up to catch yourself
and it goes into the mirror on the medicine cabinet. You are much less
likely to put your hand through the mirror with a good, adhered backer.
Sure, we all have had shower doors for years and years and they've never
broken... but man, just think if one did when you slipped in the shower.
Thank God those things are tempered glass. Heck, I might even consider
tempered glass for a moving mirror.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 6/14/2012 4:17 PM, dadiOH wrote:
> Greg Guarino wrote:
>> On Topic!
>>
>> It won't be for the bathroom, actually, but for my daughter's room. I
>> envision a shallow cabinet (for makeup and sundry paraphernalia) with
>> a hinged mirrored door; like a panel door, but with a mirror where the
>> panel would go. It would probably measure 18" x 24" x 4".
>>
>> I'd like to think of a design that could be built simply, as I'd like
>> my (17 y.o.) daughter to be able to do much of the building. That is
>> in fact the main goal of the project. She seems up for it.
>>
>> As this will be a case of the "partially-sighted leading the blind",
>> I'm open to suggestions, but a couple of initial questions come to
>> mind:
>> Will I need some sort of "backer" for the mirror, or could a
>> sufficiently thick piece of glass suffice on its own? How should I
>> hold it in? I assume a rabbet from behind the frame, and "points", if
>> that's the right term.
>
> I don't know if you NEED a backer but I'd put one. Probably 1/8" lauan
> ("door skin"). I'd use 1/8" mirror too...set both into a 1/4" rabbet iin
> the back of a mortise& tenon frame, hold them in place with thin wood
> strips glued on. I'm suggesting the light, thin mirror in case the frame
> joinery isn't quite up to snuff; you can get plastic mirror too...it is
> light weight but scratches fairly easily.
I appreciate the subtle hint that the door will need to be especially
precise to accept glass, especially as my skills are modest. But the
flatness of the mirror is probably non-negotiable. (I know my "client"
well) I believe I can lay my hands on a suitably-sized piece of old, but
never used, 1/4" glass mirror.
>> I'm thinking of making the joinery simple by using pocket screws, even
>> perhaps to assemble the door. Is this a stupid idea in any way?
>
> OK for the box, not so good for door. If you use it for the door I'd
> suggest 1/4" T&G for the frame members too.
I'm trying to imagine how that would work. Are you suggesting putting
the glass in the groove?
On 6/14/12 3:17 PM, dadiOH wrote:
>> I'm thinking of making the joinery simple by using pocket screws, even
>> perhaps to assemble the door. Is this a stupid idea in any way?
> OK for the box, not so good for door. If you use it for the door I'd
> suggest 1/4" T&G for the frame members too.
Mine is 1/4" glass and I used pocket screws with glue. Granted, you're
probably talking about just pocket screws, which is a different animal.
But in either case, I would argue properly sized pocket screws are
plenty strong enough.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 6/14/2012 2:08 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 6/14/12 2:45 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> -MIKE- wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> You absolutely want a backer. Most mirrors (probably all sold at
>>> glass stores) will already have one applied. If you're recycling an
>>> old mirror that does not, it could be as simple as some thick contact
>>> paper. Don't listen to anyone who says you don't need it. Of course
>>> you don't "need" it... you don't "need" seat belts either. :-)
>>
>> Why do you say that Mike? I have seen tons of dressers and vanities that
>> have had unbacked mirrors, and they have held up just fine over decades.
>> Now you have me curious...
>>
>>
>
> It's not a matter of holding up. No backer will keep glass from breaking.
> It's a matter of safely. If the mirror breaks, the backer holds it
> together and keeps the sharp pieces from flying all over the place. Not
> that one will likely injure you in the process of flying, but we're
> talking about a room in which you spend most of your time barefoot. How
> many times have you broken a glass in the kitchen, swept the entire floor
> and still found stray pieces a week later?
>
> But lets say you do slip and fall and put your hand up to catch yourself
> and it goes into the mirror on the medicine cabinet. You are much less
> likely to put your hand through the mirror with a good, adhered backer.
>
> Sure, we all have had shower doors for years and years and they've never
> broken... but man, just think if one did when you slipped in the shower.
> Thank God those things are tempered glass. Heck, I might even consider
> tempered glass for a moving mirror.
tempered shower doors can spontaneously deconstruct with no warning nor
any sudden hit. frequently no one is in the room when they go off.
<http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2012/06/13/dnt-iowa-exploding-shower-glass-door.kcci?iref=allsearch>
On 6/14/12 4:41 PM, chaniarts wrote:
> tempered shower doors can spontaneously deconstruct with no warning nor
> any sudden hit. frequently no one is in the room when they go off.
>
> <http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2012/06/13/dnt-iowa-exploding-shower-glass-door.kcci?iref=allsearch>
>
Yes, and who got hurt? Oh that's right, nobody. :-)
And if someone did get hurt when this 1 in 10 million occurrence
happened, a band aid or a couple stitches probably took care of it. If
shower doors were not tempered, we'd likely see several deaths a year.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 6/14/12 10:18 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 6/14/12 3:17 PM, dadiOH wrote:
>>>> I'm thinking of making the joinery simple by using pocket screws,
>>>> even perhaps to assemble the door. Is this a stupid idea in any way?
>>> OK for the box, not so good for door. If you use it for the door I'd
>>> suggest 1/4" T&G for the frame members too.
>>
>> Mine is 1/4" glass and I used pocket screws with glue. Granted, you're
>> probably talking about just pocket screws, which is a different
>> animal. But in either case, I would argue properly sized pocket
>> screws are plenty strong enough.
>
> Agreed. Properly glued joints would even be strong enough, but I too prefer
> some sort of additional mechanical joint. M&T could be fine, as has been
> suggested, pocket screws, bisquits, etc.
>
What I love about pocket screws is not having to wait for glue to dry.
If you use glue, as well, the screws are integrated clamps. :-)
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Greg Guarino wrote:
> On 6/14/2012 4:17 PM, dadiOH wrote:
>> Greg Guarino wrote:
>>> On Topic!
>>>
>>> It won't be for the bathroom, actually, but for my daughter's room.
>>> I envision a shallow cabinet (for makeup and sundry paraphernalia)
>>> with a hinged mirrored door; like a panel door, but with a mirror
>>> where the panel would go. It would probably measure 18" x 24" x 4".
>>>
>>> I'd like to think of a design that could be built simply, as I'd
>>> like my (17 y.o.) daughter to be able to do much of the building.
>>> That is in fact the main goal of the project. She seems up for it.
>>>
>>> As this will be a case of the "partially-sighted leading the blind",
>>> I'm open to suggestions, but a couple of initial questions come to
>>> mind:
>>> Will I need some sort of "backer" for the mirror, or could a
>>> sufficiently thick piece of glass suffice on its own? How should I
>>> hold it in? I assume a rabbet from behind the frame, and "points",
>>> if that's the right term.
>>
>> I don't know if you NEED a backer but I'd put one. Probably 1/8"
>> lauan ("door skin"). I'd use 1/8" mirror too...set both into a 1/4"
>> rabbet iin the back of a mortise& tenon frame, hold them in place
>> with thin wood strips glued on. I'm suggesting the light, thin
>> mirror in case the frame joinery isn't quite up to snuff; you can
>> get plastic mirror too...it is light weight but scratches fairly
>> easily.
>
> I appreciate the subtle hint that the door will need to be especially
> precise to accept glass, especially as my skills are modest. But the
> flatness of the mirror is probably non-negotiable. (I know my "client"
> well) I believe I can lay my hands on a suitably-sized piece of old,
> but never used, 1/4" glass mirror.
>
>>> I'm thinking of making the joinery simple by using pocket screws,
>>> even perhaps to assemble the door. Is this a stupid idea in any way?
>>
>> OK for the box, not so good for door. If you use it for the door I'd
>> suggest 1/4" T&G for the frame members too.
>
> I'm trying to imagine how that would work. Are you suggesting putting
> the glass in the groove?
No, I was thinking of T&G just where the rails & stiles meet. I guess you
could go full out on them and put the glass in. Just don't ever break it
:)
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net
Greg Guarino wrote:
> On Jun 15, 8:37 am, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Greg Guarino wrote:
>>> On 6/14/2012 4:17 PM, dadiOH wrote:
>>>> Greg Guarino wrote:
>>>>> On Topic!
>>
>>>>> It won't be for the bathroom, actually, but for my daughter's
>>>>> room. I envision a shallow cabinet (for makeup and sundry
>>>>> paraphernalia) with a hinged mirrored door; like a panel door,
>>>>> but with a mirror where the panel would go. It would probably
>>>>> measure 18" x 24" x 4".
>>
>>>>> I'd like to think of a design that could be built simply, as I'd
>>>>> like my (17 y.o.) daughter to be able to do much of the building.
>>>>> That is in fact the main goal of the project. She seems up for it.
>>
>>>>> As this will be a case of the "partially-sighted leading the
>>>>> blind", I'm open to suggestions, but a couple of initial
>>>>> questions come to mind:
>>>>> Will I need some sort of "backer" for the mirror, or could a
>>>>> sufficiently thick piece of glass suffice on its own? How should I
>>>>> hold it in? I assume a rabbet from behind the frame, and "points",
>>>>> if that's the right term.
>>
>>>> I don't know if you NEED a backer but I'd put one. Probably 1/8"
>>>> lauan ("door skin"). I'd use 1/8" mirror too...set both into a 1/4"
>>>> rabbet iin the back of a mortise& tenon frame, hold them in place
>>>> with thin wood strips glued on. I'm suggesting the light, thin
>>>> mirror in case the frame joinery isn't quite up to snuff; you can
>>>> get plastic mirror too...it is light weight but scratches fairly
>>>> easily.
>>
>>> I appreciate the subtle hint that the door will need to be
>>> especially precise to accept glass, especially as my skills are
>>> modest. But the flatness of the mirror is probably non-negotiable.
>>> (I know my "client" well) I believe I can lay my hands on a
>>> suitably-sized piece of old, but never used, 1/4" glass mirror.
>>
>>>>> I'm thinking of making the joinery simple by using pocket screws,
>>>>> even perhaps to assemble the door. Is this a stupid idea in any
>>>>> way?
>>
>>>> OK for the box, not so good for door. If you use it for the door
>>>> I'd suggest 1/4" T&G for the frame members too.
>>
>>> I'm trying to imagine how that would work. Are you suggesting
>>> putting the glass in the groove?
>>
>> No, I was thinking of T&G just where the rails & stiles meet. I
>> guess you could go full out on them and put the glass in. Just don't
>> ever break it :)
>>
>> --
>>
>> dadiOH
>> ____________________________
>>
>> Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
>> Maybe just ready for a change? Check it
>> out...http://www.floridaloghouse.net
>
> OK. Indulge my ignorance for a moment then. How would I make the
> stopped mortise? 1/4" straight router bit?
That would work. So would a chisel.
After further thought, I would scrap the T&G or mortice/tenon and make half
lap joints. Dead easy to make, lots of glue surface, will survive when
others fail. So would a bridle joint but the half lap is less work and just
as good.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net
On 6/16/12 1:03 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
> OK. Indulge my ignorance for a moment then. How would I make the
> stopped mortise? 1/4" straight router bit?
Or on edge on the table saw... finish ends with sharp chisel.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 6/14/2012 10:29 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 6/14/12 9:28 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>> On Topic!
>>
>> It won't be for the bathroom, actually, but for my daughter's room. I
>> envision a shallow cabinet (for makeup and sundry paraphernalia) with a
>> hinged mirrored door; like a panel door, but with a mirror where the
>> panel would go. It would probably measure 18" x 24" x 4".
>>
>> I'd like to think of a design that could be built simply, as I'd like my
>> (17 y.o.) daughter to be able to do much of the building. That is in
>> fact the main goal of the project. She seems up for it.
>>
>
> I just built one of these and it is indeed a really simple woodworking
> project.
> <https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/LQ5LO8Gml3TdhSlEj8PDP9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink>
Beautifully done on all counts, Mike.
>> As this will be a case of the "partially-sighted leading the blind", I'm
>> open to suggestions, but a couple of initial questions come to mind:
>>
>> Will I need some sort of "backer" for the mirror, or could a
>> sufficiently thick piece of glass suffice on its own?
>
> You absolutely want a backer. Most mirrors (probably all sold at glass
> stores) will already have one applied. If you're recycling an old
> mirror that does not, it could be as simple as some thick contact paper.
> Don't listen to anyone who says you don't need it. Of course you
> don't "need" it... you don't "need" seat belts either. :-)
>
>
>> How should I hold
>> it in? I assume a rabbet from behind the frame, and "points", if that's
>> the right term.
>>
>
> I recycled some mirror holding clips from an old framed mirror. They
> were simple pieces of hardened spring metal held on by small screws.
> There are a million different mirror clips out there.
>
>
>> I'm thinking of making the joinery simple by using pocket screws, even
>> perhaps to assemble the door. Is this a stupid idea in any way?
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>
> Pocket screws are very strong, but I usually glue the joint if I know
> it's going to be permanent. Pocket holes are a great way to clamp a
> joint if you don't have a lot of clamps. For the box on my cabinet, I
> used simple rabbet/dado joint.
> http://www.timberframe-tools.com/ref/handwork-wood/images/266-26.png
>
> Pocket holes/glue could work for the door as well. If you decide on
> mitered corner joints, cut the recess/rabbet for the mirror in the stock
> before you cut it into the tops and sides. For square corner joints,
> like rail & stile cabinet doors, you may not want to put in the recess
> until after you cut the pieces, because they will be stopped on two pieces.
What he said ...
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