I'm a new woodworker eager to abandon the 21st century and revisit the
steam age. I've decided to go 'neanderthal' for several reasons:
1) SWMBO, two todlers, a basement workshop and a $25/month
woodworking budget.
2) I'm in no hurry to complete projects. A evening spent sharpening a
chisel on sandpaper sounds like time well spent.
3) I really, really like quiet (see two todlers in #1).
4) I'm a natural klutz and would like to keep all my fingers.
5) My Basset Hound is terrified of power tools.
Budget constraints being what they are, I'm trying to create a strict
schedule of tools needs and what order they should be picked up. I
have:
Stanley No. 4 handplane circa 1980 (eeesch...)
Stanley Block plane circa 2005 (eeesch...)
1" Buck Bros. bevel-edge chisel (can't seem to get it sharp...)
Lots of handsaws, back saws, copings saws, a brace and auger bits...all
hand-downs from dad.
A hand-made workbench ala Bob Key's design - made with the above tools
and a LOT of sweat.
I used to work at a public library so I did some reading: Lee's
Sharpending book, Landis workbench book, Peter Korn's Working with Wood
and Hack's book on handplanes.
If you had no more than, say, $200, for the next 9 months, what would
you pick up? Would you abandon the whole exercise as futile? My
apologies if this topic has already been addressed - I've tried to do
my homework on the faqs.
eBay? Craigslist? Local classifieds for estate sales etc.?
If I were you, I'd look for better used planes (maybe some pre-WWII
Stanleys from ebay, or from a more reputable used/antique tool dealer
online). Depending on the condition of your saws, I'd also look into a
japanese saw - maybe a ryoba with both crosscut and rip teeth. More
chisels seems like a logical step also. Better (older) chisels might
hold an edge better, and practice sharpening will definitely help too
(I'm in the middle of that process myself). So far, I've used black
wet/dry sandpaper for sharpening, and a combination waterstone for the
finer grits. I just got a Veritas Mk.II honing guide, but the good old
$11 gray and black wheel honing guide is definitely functional, just
harder to keep the blade at the same position each time you sharpen.
Do you want my good old gray and black honing guide for a good
discount?
(http://www.woodcraft.com/Family.aspx?FamilyID=3114&refcode=06INGOOG&keyword=honing_guide)
I'm by no means a real neander, but I'm getting to appreciate
handplanes and chisels more and more. I haven't really gotten to
appreciate handsaws in the same way, but my shop in the basement of my
apartment is right under my neighbor's living room, so when she's home,
I try to avoid power tools, so I've been doing some handsawing.
Have fun and let us know what comes out of your quiet shop,
Andy
I went through a Technical college and trained as a Technical Studies
Teacher (woodwork, metalwork , plastics etc.).
All projects for the lower high school students were done with
handtools.
It teaches you to learn how to do things rather than what power tool do
I shove this in.
Don't sharpen chisels, plane blades etc on sandpaper. Emery paper,
wet-and dry paper in an emergency. Invest a few dollars on an oilstone.
If you can not get a sharp edge on a chisel review your technique. You
should be looking for a facet of maybe 1/8" at the cutting edge. If the
edge is too thick it might need to be ground.
You will be limited if you only have a 1" chisel. Sets of chisels can
be had fairly cheap. A small bench grinder is essential to getting
things sharp.
A good metal ruler, square, the thingy for marking thickness (marking
gauge ?), a small very sharp knife for marking, sharp hb pencil ,
clamps, tenon saw, scraper.
The later model Stanley planes can be just fine, they are not as well
made as the pre WWII models, but they can be made to work perfectly.
Point of reference Charlesworth in his hand plane video uses a British
made Stanley of recent vintage and a new iron.
SO I would recommend an A2 steel iron in your handplane first. That
takes care of month one and two.
How much do you have for wood? How much industrial business is there
within a short distance of home or on the way home? Dunnage can be a
good source of lumber if you are not in a hurry.
Are your saws sharp and have the correct kerf? From there I would
start making furniture, a hand scraper should be on your list, and a
trip to a pawn shop could turn up the file for a few dollars less.
My local pawn shops even have chisels once in a while. You might look
at the HF chisel set for under $10.00, although I spent some money on
Ebay myself for most of my chisels. The ones from Japanwoodworker take
a LOT of work to get going, but you could buy 3 of them for $50.00 and
be a long ways towards work.
Alan
Mighty Quinn wrote:
> I'm a new woodworker eager to abandon the 21st century and revisit the
> steam age. I've decided to go 'neanderthal' for several reasons:
Nice to meet you! I'm in the same boat, but for slightly different
reasons. Replace #1 with second floor apartment, shop in spare room and
#5 with Cat and we could be twins :-)
> 1) SWMBO, two todlers, a basement workshop and a $25/month
> woodworking budget.
> 2) I'm in no hurry to complete projects. A evening spent sharpening a
> chisel on sandpaper sounds like time well spent.
> 3) I really, really like quiet (see two todlers in #1).
> 4) I'm a natural klutz and would like to keep all my fingers.
> 5) My Basset Hound is terrified of power tools.
Used/antique handtools can be a great bargin if you shop for 'users'
not collectors items, especially if you're willing/able to clean and
tune them yourself. Check out
http://pages.cthome.net/bcrgraphics/toolindex.html
for aquiring good old tools. Walt's a nice guy and a font of useful
information on old tools.
> Budget constraints being what they are, I'm trying to create a strict
> schedule of tools needs and what order they should be picked up.
What order you buy tools really depends on what you need to do. As I've
been going along my own neander journey I've found it's been easiest to
buy my tools as the need for them arises for a project. It's hard,
when you're new, to know just what you'll find useful ahead of time
since you not only don't have the experience with tools required you
also don't know what kind of projects you'll enjoy working on, till
you've done a few. What type of projects you'll work on, determines
what tools you'll need.
> I have:
> Stanley No. 4 handplane circa 1980 (eeesch...)
> Stanley Block plane circa 2005 (eeesch...)
> 1" Buck Bros. bevel-edge chisel (can't seem to get it sharp...)
> Lots of handsaws, back saws, copings saws, a brace and auger bits...all
> hand-downs from dad.
> A hand-made workbench ala Bob Key's design - made with the above tools
> and a LOT of sweat.
Ok given what you've already got here's what I can think of that you
need next, in no particular order.
Sharpening setup for your saws and edge tools. Scary Sharp works great
for edge tools and the kit from Rockler is a pretty good deal I think.
I put together my own SS setup before I saw the one Rocker is selling
but I've started using their PSA back paper, it's good stuff IMO. For
a saw all you really need is a vise, a triangular metal file and a few
shop made aligntment tools (see links below for more info) I'll be
trying this for the first time "real soon now"
A vise of some sort for your bench. Amazon has a, well let's say
functional Wilton 7" vise for about $25 +SH. I have this vise... here
it is:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004XPVP/qid=1136840818/sr=1-7/ref=sr_1_7/002-1328043-4847260?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=228013
Looks like it's back ordered at the moment. It works and having any
vise will make your life so much easier. Add hardwood jaw liners
A #5 Jack Plane and a #7 Jointer plane, then replace #4 and your block
plane with something better. Again I'd suggest buying from Walt in the
link above. I'd go for a low-angle block myself.
Marking guage(s). I have the cheaper Japanese-style mortise/marking
gauge from Lee-Valley and am happy with it. It works well as a mortise
guage and a regular marking gauge. They also have some very
inexspensive western-style guagues as well.
Speed square, combo square and tape measure.
Work Mate. Makes a good sawhorse, can be used as a clamp for glue ups
and for some tasks is better than a bench vise and it folds up and goes
away when you don't need it. Or if you're like me - it doesn't take up
much space and is easy to walk around when not needed :-)
Card Scapers and required maintence gadgets.
More and better chisels. I don't have much specfic to add to that, I
still need to upgrade mine. Right now I'm still using a set of Sears
house-brand paring chisels (1/2" - 1") and a 1/4" Craftsman mortise
chisel, bought before I had a clue what I was doing.
I also have the Veritas right angle cutting guide and companion saw, to
help with cutting finger joints for boxes. Not a requiment at all, but
handy.
-----------
Here are some other good neander resources I've found online:
www.woodnet.net (check out the handtools forums)
http://www.cianperez.com/Wood/WoodDocs/Wood_How_To/INDEX_How_To.htm
(just about everything a neander needs to know)
Actually that's about it. those two plus this group have been my
biggest sources of information recently.
As for whether or not it's worth it to start woodworking with limited
time,space and money? You bet it is!
Here's some of the stuff I've made in my small, spare bedroom shop over
the past year, with a very limited set of handtools:
http://gallery.acerbic.org/woodworking
It's not all the greatest but everything has come out useable and I've
had a lot fun making them all.
Cheers,
Josh
Wow! Thanks for all the help. I've never been able to speak with
another human about my passion for woodworking (SWMBO thinks its boring
and friends think its, well, boring).
I should have been more specific about what I'd like to do. First, I'd
like to mill a hardwood board four square. I know, it's a modest
ambition, but I still ain't done it yet. After that, I'd like to make
a decent mortise and tenon joint or two. Following that, a passable
dovetail joint. After all that, I'd like to try something ambitious
like a chair. We have a 1928 bungelow-style house, and Arts & Crafts
furniture would be the cat's meow. At least that's what I told SWMBO.
I am grateful for all your insights, but one person has provided me
exceptional inspiration. Josh/SpaceCowboy, the beer fridge is
brilliant. Prior to woodworking I did a lot of homebrewing. My
homebrew fridge is actually in the workroom (another reason not to use
power tools...). Brilliant.
John
"Mighty Quinn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Wow! Thanks for all the help. I've never been able to speak with
> another human about my passion for woodworking (SWMBO thinks its boring
> and friends think its, well, boring).
>
> I should have been more specific about what I'd like to do. First, I'd
> like to mill a hardwood board four square. I know, it's a modest
> ambition, but I still ain't done it yet. After that, I'd like to make
> a decent mortise and tenon joint or two. Following that, a passable
> dovetail joint. After all that, I'd like to try something ambitious
> like a chair. We have a 1928 bungelow-style house, and Arts & Crafts
> furniture would be the cat's meow. At least that's what I told SWMBO.
>
> I am grateful for all your insights, but one person has provided me
> exceptional inspiration. Josh/SpaceCowboy, the beer fridge is
> brilliant. Prior to woodworking I did a lot of homebrewing. My
> homebrew fridge is actually in the workroom (another reason not to use
> power tools...). Brilliant.
>
> John
>
Some/most of the other suggestions are OK, however, the heart of a good
neander is their chisels and planes. Sell the Buck Bros. They are simply
trash. You can sharpen them till you are blue in the face and the edge will
hold for a very short time. Invest in a quality set. Used/eBay yard sales
whatever. Also, scrapers and good techniques will produce pleasing results.
Upgrade the plane irons and saws as budget permits.
Have Fun.
Dave
Once again, thanks. In the past 24 hours I've tracked down the local
contact for the Midwestern Tool Collectors Association (I knew living
in the midwest had advantages). Seems they have a 'meet' in March. I'm
saving my pennies now.
You guys are great - and knowledgable. These idea's will keep me going
for some time to come. I'll be scoping out the used tool stores as
well.
Still, I must comment on Joe Barta's comments about SWMBO. First, I'm
a big fan of Rumpole of the Bailey, so I love the euphamism. Second,
regarding your role models for female relationships: Humphrey Bogart
was married four times. John Wayne was married three. Errol Flynn
also married three times, and was courting a 15-year-old when he died.
Neanderthals they may be, but I'm really hoping to stick with just one
wife for now. I'm very happy with Mrs. Mighty Quinn :-)
Thanks again everyone. I'll post updates on this Neanderthal's
progress (or lack thereof).
John
Mon, Jan 9, 2006, 11:55am (EST-3) [email protected] (Mighty=A0Quinn)
needeth to be told what to doeth:
<snip> If you had no more than, say, $200, for the next 9 months, what
would you pick up? <snip>
Free wood.
And, if you still remember where the library is, go back, and pick
up a book on how to make your own tools.
JOAT
You'll never get anywhere if you believe what you "hear".
What do you "know"?
- Granny Weatherwax
Lenny wrote:
> On 9 Jan 2006 14:35:50 -0800, "Mighty Quinn" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Wow! Thanks for all the help. I've never been able to speak with
>> another human about my passion for woodworking (SWMBO thinks its boring
>> and friends think its, well, boring).
That'll change when one of their wives needs a cabinet door fixed...
Barry
Joe Barta wrote:
> You know, this whole SWMBO shit is really starting to piss me off.
> Seems to me it wasn't long ago when it was the MAN who was obeyed. Now
> looks what's happened. Too many men have let their shit go to hell and
> have been reduced to a bunch of emasculated PUSSIES cow-towing to the
> demands of their woman. Well men, I say rise up, quit being limp-
> dicked pussies and stand up to your women for crying out loud and
> never again use that most pathetic of terms... SWMBO.
Lighten up, man: it's a joke.
I don't think I'm submissive at all, and yet I find myself agreeing with
whatever LOML suggests/desires/opines. I attribute it to my uncommonly
good taste in women, and my luck that this one thinks I'm hunky.
Now, what did you call me? Huh?
er
--
email not valid
> Lighten up, man: it's a joke.
>
> I don't think I'm submissive at all, and yet I find myself agreeing with
> whatever LOML suggests/desires/opines. I attribute it to my uncommonly
> good taste in women, and my luck that this one thinks I'm hunky.
No one called you "submissive", we were talking about 'women' as such, in
retrospect to men.
> Now, what did you call me? Huh?
>
Nothing!
> Actually, I've had one of those for about a year or so. I find I reach for it much more frequently
> than one of my Western type saws. Cuts well, just remember not to force it on the forward stroke.
> My B-I-L was helping me install a door over Christmas, and I now have a blade kinked in two places.
> But a replacement blade is something like $17 at the local Sears.
>
> Regards,
> Roy
>
>
Sounds about good, I bought the mini shark and the ryoba blade that fits
the same handle. The original blade is single edged and has 26 ppi, the
ryoba 19 and 24. I used it the first time cutting a bevel out of a block of
DF, hopefully to make a doorstop, and I couldn't believe how accurate
it cut, just paying attention to keeping the cut straight, it came out square,
nice design! It can cut lignum vitae too, but travels off too easily.
--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/
Joe Barta <[email protected]> wrote:
> Oh, so I've just misunderstood? It's all a big joke? So when a man
> says that SWMBO "won't let him" do this that or the other thing, he's
> just kidding? Ha ha? And when another suggests he needs SWMBO's
> approval or overcome her veto in order to buy some power tool, he's
> just funnin?
>
>
Yes. When did you have the humorectomy? Any other side effects?
And all of that is exactly it man, Joe, you seem to be a straight up brothah!
I think the actor was wrong though, I feel, men can easily be low down
dogs, and if develope any semblence of higher understanding and inner
discipline as such, can easily listen to and learn from very fine thinking
and mature women. I think women are wonderful, not all women tho...
Women are equally human, still the fair deal.
--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/
I'll say it again. Drawknife.
"Bugs" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Buy a good pocket knife and start whittling. Minimal material and space
> requirements. Critters, wood chains, balls in cages, fans . . . ad
> infinitum will get a lot of attention. I suggest a steel knife, not a
> stone one unless you're a real Neanderthal purist.<G>
> Bugs
>
Everyone should have a drawknife. Very versatile tool.
"Bruce Barnett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Mighty Quinn" <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > Stanley No. 4 handplane circa 1980 (eeesch...)
> > Stanley Block plane circa 2005 (eeesch...)
> > 1" Buck Bros. bevel-edge chisel (can't seem to get it sharp...)
> > Lots of handsaws, back saws, copings saws, a brace and auger bits...all
> > hand-downs from dad.
> > A hand-made workbench ala Bob Key's design - made with the above tools
> > and a LOT of sweat.
>
> > If you had no more than, say, $200, for the next 9 months, what would
> > you pick up?
>
>
> Scraper/Burnisher (although for a burnisher, Taig Frid says to use the
shaft of a chisel)
> Metal file (for the scraper)
> sandpaper
> Sander block
> Combination Square
> Framing Square
> sandpaper
> Miter block (you might be able to make one if you are careful)
> Awl/center punch
> sharpening thingies (Scary Sharp, Waterstones, etc.)
> Rasps
> More chisels
> sandpaper
> Carving/whittling tools
> Soft blow hammer
> sandpaper
>
> There's a lot you can made and do using this stuff.
> Bench hook
> Holders for sharpening stones
> Shooting frame
> Miter block
> Toolbox
>
>
> and then you get to make stuff for SHMBO.
>
> Recipe box. Jewelry box. Tons of stuff you can do carving. Spoons, etc.
>
> > I used to work at a public library so I did some reading:
>
> and more books :-)
>
>
> Best of luck.
>
> It's doable. I think people should learn some of the basics before
> they power up. Learn to tune your planes and see what a different that
> makes.
>
>
> --
> Sending unsolicited commercial e-mail to this account incurs a fee of
> $500 per message, and acknowledges the legality of this contract.
> Seriously though, choose a project and build your tool collection as
> you go along. For starters have a look at this
> http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32941&cat=1,42884,42896
> I would suggest getting just the replacement blade and making your own
> handle. It could be one of your first projects and makes a fine finish
> saw.
>
> Best of Luck,
> Lenny
>
Yeah right... why not the shark saw at Sears? It's 19.95.
Mighty Quinn wrote:
> If you had no more than, say, $200, for the next 9 months, what
> would you pick up?
Here we're venturing into the tool-collecting hobby again. I would say
purchase of tools depends on what you're making. Tools for making
rocking chairs would differ from tools for making cabinets would
differ from tools for carving. Let your projects dictate what you
should buy next and don't spend so much time thinking about how you're
going to spend $200 on tools in the next nine months. As you have a
need for a tool, pick it up. If you can't afford to pick it up, find a
way to use what you have until you can. But asking a bunch of guys in
a newsgroup what tools you should buy will just get you a bunch of
assorted suggestions that may have nothing to do with what you
actually need to accomplish your projects.
Joe Barta
Lenny wrote:
> I used to find projects SWMBO wanted done, then said " If I only
> had this tool I could do that." It worked for quite some time
> before she caught on.
You know, this whole SWMBO shit is really starting to piss me off.
Seems to me it wasn't long ago when it was the MAN who was obeyed. Now
looks what's happened. Too many men have let their shit go to hell and
have been reduced to a bunch of emasculated PUSSIES cow-towing to the
demands of their woman. Well men, I say rise up, quit being limp-
dicked pussies and stand up to your women for crying out loud and
never again use that most pathetic of terms... SWMBO.
Sorry, had to get that off my chest.
Joe Barta
AAvK wrote:
> But I heartily DISAGREE with and oppose
> any kind of bullying abuse women in any way, shape or form. That
> includes verbal brow beating,
I absolutely agree. I believe in treating women the way I would like
to be treated.
That said, men must be men... and that has nothing to do with bullying
or abuse. Quite the contrary. I've heard from quite a few women who
complain that their men never stand up to them... all the while
commandeering the family pants. The poor dudes have succumbed to a
culture of the submissive sensitive man and have shrugged aside
millions of years of evolution.
Again, this has nothing to do with abusing women. Can you imagine
Humphrey Bogart or John Wayne prattling on about a SWMBO and asking
her if it's ok to buy a damn tool? Of course not. Bogey and the Duke
are dead... and like Dennis Leary said... if the Duke were alive today
he'd be pretty damn pissed off!
> because she is much more delicate
> mentally, and very precious and worth loving, for her honor and
> love.
I'm reminded of a quote by Eroll Flynn... "Any notion that a woman's
mind is nobler, purer, higher, more decent, cleaner, or anything else
gentler or superior to a man is pure delusion."
That's my story and I'm sticking to it ;-)
Joe Barta
Joe Barta <[email protected]> wrote in news:Xns97478EF672D95jbartaapknet@
207.115.17.102:
> Fair enough. I'd reckon though that most users of the term have no
> idea where it came from. They just think it's "cute".
>
I guess that depends on whether you mean "most users of the term" in the
world at large, or just those of us posting here.
If the former, I don't really know. Of the latter, I think most folks
here know the derivation, and understand the humor involved. Tongue in
cheek, and all of that ...
Of course, YMMV.
--
Regards,
JT
Speaking only for myself....
Mighty Quinn wrote:
> Still, I must comment on Joe Barta's comments about SWMBO.
Of course you do... I hit a nerve ;-)
> First,
> I'm a big fan of Rumpole of the Bailey, so I love the euphamism.
Fair enough. I'd reckon though that most users of the term have no
idea where it came from. They just think it's "cute".
> Second, regarding your role models for female relationships:
> Humphrey Bogart was married four times. John Wayne was married
> three. Errol Flynn also married three times, and was courting a
> 15-year-old when he died.
I knew that no matter who I picked, dirt could be dug up on them. And
truly, all great men are flawed. But let's not lose the big picture
for the details.
> Neanderthals they may be, but I'm really hoping to stick with
> just one
> wife for now. I'm very happy with Mrs. Mighty Quinn :-)
That's a wonderful thing and I wish you the best.
Joe Barta
John Thomas wrote:
> I think most
> folks here know the derivation, and understand the humor involved.
> Tongue in cheek, and all of that ...
Oh, so I've just misunderstood? It's all a big joke? So when a man
says that SWMBO "won't let him" do this that or the other thing, he's
just kidding? Ha ha? And when another suggests he needs SWMBO's
approval or overcome her veto in order to buy some power tool, he's
just funnin?
And do you think there are any modern women who use the term HWMBO?
There was a movie I saw recently about a young man whose father came
from India to live with him in America after the father's wife died.
The son's wife was a modern yuppie frazzled controlling headcase and
she was running to work leaving their small child with a nanny. The
older father asked his son, why do you permit her to work? To which
the son didn't have much of an answer other than it doesn't work like
that in this country. It was an interesting clash of culture.
I say no one needs to obey anyone... unless it's a cop... and he's
pointing a gun at you... and he tells you to put your hands behind
your head. Then it might be wise to obey now and argue about it later
;-)
Joe Barta
Enoch Root wrote:
> Lighten up, man: it's a joke.
So I've been told. The next time I see an unemployed young man being
carted around by his girlfriend because he has no concept or role
model of what it is to be a man, I'll remind myself that it's just a
joke. The next time I'm out riding with one of my buddies and all of a
sudden he has to go home because his wife/girlfriend called and wants
him to come home and do the dishes and why is he out riding around
without her, I'll just smile and tell myself it's all in fun. The next
time I hear in this group that some dude needs to work on his woman so
that she will let him buy a new tool, I will remember not to let my
hackles be raised because he's obviously just joshin around. :-)
> I don't think I'm submissive at all, and yet I find myself
> agreeing with whatever LOML suggests/desires/opines. I attribute
> it to my uncommonly good taste in women, and my luck that this one
> thinks I'm hunky.
Tis a wonderful thing.
> Now, what did you call me? Huh?
Me? Call you? That must have been some other dude. I am always most
polite and restrained in conversation.
Joe Barta
Don't forget a sturdy bench with a decent vise. I find that one of the
handiest tools I have. Doesn't have to be fancy, but should be hell for
stout.
Walt C
"Mighty Quinn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm a new woodworker eager to abandon the 21st century and revisit the
> steam age. I've decided to go 'neanderthal' for several reasons:
> 1) SWMBO, two todlers, a basement workshop and a $25/month
> woodworking budget.
> 2) I'm in no hurry to complete projects. A evening spent sharpening a
> chisel on sandpaper sounds like time well spent.
> 3) I really, really like quiet (see two todlers in #1).
> 4) I'm a natural klutz and would like to keep all my fingers.
> 5) My Basset Hound is terrified of power tools.
>
> Budget constraints being what they are, I'm trying to create a strict
> schedule of tools needs and what order they should be picked up. I
> have:
> Stanley No. 4 handplane circa 1980 (eeesch...)
> Stanley Block plane circa 2005 (eeesch...)
> 1" Buck Bros. bevel-edge chisel (can't seem to get it sharp...)
> Lots of handsaws, back saws, copings saws, a brace and auger bits...all
> hand-downs from dad.
> A hand-made workbench ala Bob Key's design - made with the above tools
> and a LOT of sweat.
>
> I used to work at a public library so I did some reading: Lee's
> Sharpending book, Landis workbench book, Peter Korn's Working with Wood
> and Hack's book on handplanes.
>
> If you had no more than, say, $200, for the next 9 months, what would
> you pick up? Would you abandon the whole exercise as futile? My
> apologies if this topic has already been addressed - I've tried to do
> my homework on the faqs.
>
Andy <[email protected]> wrote:
> online). Depending on the condition of your saws, I'd also look into a
> japanese saw - maybe a ryoba with both crosscut and rip teeth.
Second that. These are *fun*. Get some wood (scrap or
other) first, so you don't want to saw up your existing
furniture.
--
but the edge is still Out t
here. Or maybe it's In... HST (1967)
when i got to the edge , i built a deck % (2005)
> I'm a new woodworker eager to abandon the 21st century and revisit the
> steam age. I've decided to go 'neanderthal' for several reasons:
> 1) SWMBO, two todlers, a basement workshop and a $25/month
> woodworking budget.
> 2) I'm in no hurry to complete projects. A evening spent sharpening a
> chisel on sandpaper sounds like time well spent.
> 3) I really, really like quiet (see two todlers in #1).
> 4) I'm a natural klutz and would like to keep all my fingers.
Still, I have cut my fingers open on my chisels. Too easy.
> 5) My Basset Hound is terrified of power tools.
>
> Budget constraints being what they are, I'm trying to create a strict
I am "the same" and "doing the same" as a hobby.
> schedule of tools needs and what order they should be picked up. I
> have:
> Stanley No. 4 handplane circa 1980 (eeesch...)
Tune it up. it's all over the 'net.
Now buy an old-but-decent Stanley No. 6 on eBay, I just bought one for
$21 there (+S/H). It makes a fine jointer for small work. Also try to find
a 3/4" or 1" shoulder plane for as cheap as possible. Stanley 78 with blade,
fence, nicker, and depth stop. Eventually.
> Stanley Block plane circa 2005 (eeesch...)
Is it a low angle block plane? New about $40 online somewhere, like here:
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=41228&cat=1,41182
If tuned, it's good enough.
> 1" Buck Bros. bevel-edge chisel (can't seem to get it sharp...)
Modern and plastic handled? Poor steel. Try these Buck Bros., excellent
steel with leather capped hickory handles, these 'bench chisels' are a *great
deal*: http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/BuckBrosChisels.htm I
have some of these, and they take a mean scary sharp edge too. On glass
and paper, I finish with 1200 grit from Harbour Freight, $5.99 for 20
sheets. The paring chisels are also important to have, I bought the crank
necked Bucks.
Another very effect way is with this Arkansas soft stone, best deal online
anywhere, eBay search engine: 7201427792 >jpfarm is a trustworthy
seller in my experience. See everything he's got.
After that, a leather strop of your own cutting (got a saddlery in town?),
Use cheap blue/gray emery cake on one half of the smooth top (hardware
store), and green Lee Valley 0.5 micron on the other. Mr. Lee suggests
using tallow in the leather, so I went to the market and got a bag of free
beef fat, chopped it up fine and boiled it to render over low heat with a lid
for about 45 minutes (lots of water), refrigerated, and took it off the top.
Unsalted butter is essentially the same, but too expensive. You can do as
good as can possibly be done with these two items. But I would still use the
1200 on glass for finalizing the back flattening, which also does further
deburring and mirroring.
> Lots of handsaws, back saws, copings saws, a brace and auger bits...all
> hand-downs from dad.
Awesome! Got a mitre box? Bench hook? See 'Planing notes about the
shooting board: http://www.amgron.clara.net/index.htm and everything else.
You will also want to sharpen them when needed, you can make an adapter
made of Fir for the blades of saws that will fit into your bench's front vise.
You will need small triangular taper files with wooden handles, the size of
the file relates to points per inch. Instructions are all over the 'net.
If needed, go to a pool supply store and buy 'coping' to use as teeth
protectors. This is used for above ground pools to clip the lining to the top
edge. Super cheap, I paid $0.50 each for 24" pieces, but try to find 48" so
you can cut to size.
Depending on how the teeth are filed, a saw is either crosscut or rip, this
is specific for dovetail saws (rip), tennon saws (both) and both are used for
other small work. The more PPI, crosscut, the less PPI, rip. Same goes for
large hand saws, 8- 12 is crosscut, 5 - 7, rip. The filling shapes of the teeth
are different for both. What... you knew that? All over the 'net.
> A hand-made workbench ala Bob Key's design - made with the above tools
> and a LOT of sweat.
Got bench dogs? If not, you can make them: http://tomecat.com/jeffy/ww/bench/dog/
What about vises? If not, you can make a 'leg vise' with this bench screw:
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=41664&cat=1,41659
http://uweb.txstate.edu/~cv01/shop.html and http://tomecat.com/jeffy/ww/bench/
An end vise is also necassary (large):
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=31137&cat=1,41659,41661&ap=1
> I used to work at a public library so I did some reading: Lee's
> Sharpending book, Landis workbench book, Peter Korn's Working with Wood
> and Hack's book on handplanes.
> If you had no more than, say, $200, for the next 9 months, what would
> you pick up? Would you abandon the whole exercise as futile? My
> apologies if this topic has already been addressed - I've tried to do
> my homework on the faqs.
>
You can get free wood by dumpster diving at cabinet making shops. Seriously!
They throw out nice pieces, good for small projects.
I had nuthin' better to do so I hope this helped,
--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/
In article <[email protected]>,
Joe Barta <[email protected]> wrote:
> But asking a bunch of guys in
> a newsgroup what tools you should buy will just get you a bunch of
> assorted suggestions that may have nothing to do with what you
> actually need to accomplish your projects.
Assorted suggestions is what it's all about, IMHO.
The likelihood of somebody suggesting something the OP never thought about is
enhanced.
"Mighty Quinn" <[email protected]> writes:
> Stanley No. 4 handplane circa 1980 (eeesch...)
> Stanley Block plane circa 2005 (eeesch...)
> 1" Buck Bros. bevel-edge chisel (can't seem to get it sharp...)
> Lots of handsaws, back saws, copings saws, a brace and auger bits...all
> hand-downs from dad.
> A hand-made workbench ala Bob Key's design - made with the above tools
> and a LOT of sweat.
> If you had no more than, say, $200, for the next 9 months, what would
> you pick up?
Scraper/Burnisher (although for a burnisher, Taig Frid says to use the shaft of a chisel)
Metal file (for the scraper)
sandpaper
Sander block
Combination Square
Framing Square
sandpaper
Miter block (you might be able to make one if you are careful)
Awl/center punch
sharpening thingies (Scary Sharp, Waterstones, etc.)
Rasps
More chisels
sandpaper
Carving/whittling tools
Soft blow hammer
sandpaper
There's a lot you can made and do using this stuff.
Bench hook
Holders for sharpening stones
Shooting frame
Miter block
Toolbox
and then you get to make stuff for SHMBO.
Recipe box. Jewelry box. Tons of stuff you can do carving. Spoons, etc.
> I used to work at a public library so I did some reading:
and more books :-)
Best of luck.
It's doable. I think people should learn some of the basics before
they power up. Learn to tune your planes and see what a different that
makes.
--
Sending unsolicited commercial e-mail to this account incurs a fee of
$500 per message, and acknowledges the legality of this contract.
On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 18:28:20 -0800, "AAvK" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Seriously though, choose a project and build your tool collection as
>> you go along. For starters have a look at this
>> http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32941&cat=1,42884,42896
>> I would suggest getting just the replacement blade and making your own
>> handle. It could be one of your first projects and makes a fine finish
>> saw.
>>
>> Best of Luck,
>> Lenny
>>
>
>Yeah right... why not the shark saw at Sears? It's 19.95.
Actually, I've had one of those for about a year or so. I find I reach for it much more frequently
than one of my Western type saws. Cuts well, just remember not to force it on the forward stroke.
My B-I-L was helping me install a door over Christmas, and I now have a blade kinked in two places.
But a replacement blade is something like $17 at the local Sears.
Regards,
Roy
>
> You know, this whole SWMBO shit is really starting to piss me off.
> Seems to me it wasn't long ago when it was the MAN who was obeyed. Now
> looks what's happened. Too many men have let their shit go to hell and
> have been reduced to a bunch of emasculated PUSSIES cow-towing to the
> demands of their woman. Well men, I say rise up, quit being limp-
> dicked pussies and stand up to your women for crying out loud and
> never again use that most pathetic of terms... SWMBO.
>
> Sorry, had to get that off my chest.
>
> Joe Barta
I agree with that, female is female. She is the one that opens her legs, submissively.
But I heartily DISAGREE with and oppose any kind of bullying abuse women in
any way, shape or form. That includes verbal brow beating, because she is much more
delicate mentally, and very precious and worth loving, for her honor and love. It is
a fair deal. Of course, if she is a monstah, ya dumpah!
--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/
On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 14:35:50 -0800, Mighty Quinn wrote:
> Wow! Thanks for all the help. I've never been able to speak with
> another human about my passion for woodworking (SWMBO thinks its boring
> and friends think its, well, boring).
I recently discovered that one of my co-workers is into woodworking too,
so we've had a chance to 'talk shop' as it were a few times recently. Pity
he's a total normite though, didn't even know what a hand plane was till I
showed him a picture :(
> I am grateful for all your insights, but one person has provided me
> exceptional inspiration. Josh/SpaceCowboy, the beer fridge is
> brilliant. Prior to woodworking I did a lot of homebrewing. My
> homebrew fridge is actually in the workroom (another reason not to use
> power tools...). Brilliant.
>
> John
Thanks! It's kind of a proto-project since it was put together with a
jigsaw, a powerdrill and a few wrenches (all hand-me-downs from my dad) it
wasn't until about a year after that was built that I really picked up
WWing as a hobby. Since those pictures were taken I've sanded it and put
a lite coat of mineral oil and a layer of paste wax on it, to pretty it
up a bit. I'm very pleased with it on a functional level but at some
point I'd like to redo it now that I more or less know what I'm doing and
make something a little prettier. I still brew but not as often as I used
to, beer consumption is down to the point where I only brew about four to
six times a year now. Five gallons of beer lasts a lot longer now than it
did when I was still in college... :-)
Cheers,
Josh
On 9 Jan 2006 11:55:16 -0800, "Mighty Quinn" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I'm a new woodworker eager to abandon the 21st century and revisit the
>steam age. I've decided to go 'neanderthal' for several reasons:
>1) SWMBO, two todlers, a basement workshop and a $25/month
>woodworking budget.
There are a lot of good responses so far. Cheap tools? Forget eBay for now. Think local used.
Cost of shipping can be high, and the basic starter tools should be fairly easy to find locally. If
you can't find it, try eBay last. It will be there, and there are some bargains, unless it is
something I want/need....plus shipping/handling.
Make some time every month to hit a local old junk/antiques flea market or two (avoid the ones full
of "new stuff"). Even SWMBO can enjoy something like this. Near Houston we have route 105 which
has about 12 miles of various flea markets and yard sales, many of which can be the answer to a
dumpster divers dreams. I've picked up chisels, hammer heads, screwdrivers, etc for as little as 10
cents, yep, a dime, each. Planes, saws, squares, etc. cost more, but you can still sometimes find
an old Stanley block plane for a couple of bucks. Look for the dirty stuff, especially if it is in
piles. Claw through everything. Haggle over the prices. The dirt cleans up easily, and so does
almost all of the rust. Price goes up by a factor of 10 if it has been washed for sale.
I outfitted a small one-man blacksmith shop this way, and never paid more than $10 for any one item,
other than a set of hot/cold hardies and my big leg vise. I think I paid $35 for that. I got the
only straight pein hammer I've ever seen for a buck years ago. I'm gonna be buried with that
hammer.
Let your friends and family know what you're looking for. Offer to clean out old sheds and garages
for what you can keep. Be amazed what Aunt Nellie has in the back shed. Might be something you
could really use, then again, you might just be amazed at what a wild woman she must have been in
her younger years (DAMHIKT).
Regards,
Roy
On 9 Jan 2006 14:35:50 -0800, "Mighty Quinn" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Wow! Thanks for all the help. I've never been able to speak with
>another human about my passion for woodworking (SWMBO thinks its boring
>and friends think its, well, boring).
>
No offense but it sounds like maybe you need to find new friends. =0)
>I should have been more specific about what I'd like to do. First, I'd
>like to mill a hardwood board four square. I know, it's a modest
>ambition, but I still ain't done it yet. After that, I'd like to make
>a decent mortise and tenon joint or two. Following that, a passable
>dovetail joint. After all that, I'd like to try something ambitious
>like a chair. We have a 1928 bungelow-style house, and Arts & Crafts
>furniture would be the cat's meow. At least that's what I told SWMBO.
>
I used to find projects SWMBO wanted done, then said " If I only had
this tool I could do that." It worked for quite some time before she
caught on.
>I am grateful for all your insights, but one person has provided me
>exceptional inspiration. Josh/SpaceCowboy, the beer fridge is
>brilliant. Prior to woodworking I did a lot of homebrewing. My
>homebrew fridge is actually in the workroom (another reason not to use
>power tools...). Brilliant.
>
>John
Seriously though, choose a project and build your tool collection as
you go along. For starters have a look at this
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32941&cat=1,42884,42896
I would suggest getting just the replacement blade and making your own
handle. It could be one of your first projects and makes a fine finish
saw.
Best of Luck,
Lenny
If you've gone and built a bench then you already have your "starter
kit". You can augment it by judicious shopping on eBay and through
neighborhood garage sales.
Get some glass and wet-dry sandpaper and learn to sharpen. It's much
cheaper than waterstones and you won't be out big bucks if you drop it
on the floor by accident some day. Sharp tools are essential to success,
especially to a neander-in-training.
You will reduce the sweat output on the next project by getting a decent
set of bench chisels (ranging from 1/4" to 1") and by tuning and
sharpening those planes. Likewise some files and rasps will serve you
well for shaping and contouring.
Get some garnet sandpaper in various grits and learn to put a nice
finish on your next pieces. (Sandpaper is a tool too.)
Pick up the above (piecemeal) as your next few projects require
(including shellac, stain, varnish, etc.)
With just chisels and your saws and planes you could build SWMBO a pine
or cedar blanket chest. If she likes it maybe she'll make a contribution
to your tool fund on your next birthday. (She will be more likely to
like the piece if you practice your dovetailing on your shop furniture
or personal toolbox first).
Consider also making some things for the kids. They won't toddle for
long. Kid size table, chairs, playthings, coat racks, toyboxes, etc. are
good skill builders and the kids will doubtless give your joinery a good
strength test.
By then it should be obvious to you which tools you'll need for your
next project and whether to buy them or make them yourself. Most
everything a neander wants he can make -- except time.
J.
Mighty Quinn wrote:
> I'm a new woodworker eager to abandon the 21st century and revisit the
> steam age. I've decided to go 'neanderthal'
[snip]
> If you had no more than, say, $200, for the next 9 months, what would
> you pick up?