OT: WTF is going on?

"Renata" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 20:24:41 -0700, Mark & Juanita
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm going to be much less kind than others and not give the benefit of
>> the
>>doubt to journalists just trying to feed a 24 hour news cycle. They could
>>get the same reaction on the business front by reporting the good news of
>>the economy (record low unemployment rates, near full employment, etc) or
>>just for a change reporting the facts instead of speculation and opinion.
> -snip-
>
> First, in other economic news, just learned that Hershey Chocolate is
> moving to Mexico! [not totally verified]

Shame on Hershey. Or is it shame on the union for running Hershey off to a
more reasonable cost labor force?


>
> -
>
> those tax cuts that were gonna "trickle down" into jobs, well, let's
> take a look at the jobs created in the last 7 years. And a few other
> things...
> -R
>
> ~90% of the jobs have been low paying, service sector jobs.

Your numbers show that it is working.


>
> "Under Clinton, the Dow Jones went up 324 percent. Wall-to-wall, after
> the dot.com bubble burst, it more than tripled in value.

> Bush arrived in 2001. Since then the Dow Jones is up just 10 percent.
> Adjusted for inflation, that's absolutely flat. (It was briefly up 23
> percent. It is now below the 10 percent mark, and tumbling down as
> this is written). ...

Numbers are fun to spin aren't they.

It is easy to tripple 2 into 6, for an increase of 4, it is quite another
thing to tripple 6 into 18, for an increase of 12.

This was bound to happen regardless of who was in office. Its simple math,
you cannot maintain that type of growth. Many years ago when the economy
was perceived as stronger and the dollar was "as sound as the dollar" the
market hardly grew at all by todays standards.

>
> If jobs have not increased, salaries have gone down, and the value of
> business has not risen, where is that 35 percent growth in the
> economy?
> There is a number called the M3 money supply.
> ...
> The entire growth of the economy under Bushenomics is accounted for by
> growth in the money supply.

Yeah, that is not a new Bush concept, I can recall Johnson doing that.

"Leon" wrote

> God has guided us in the past and because we allowed watered down morals
to
> appease and not offend the undeserving it is a small wonder why we are in
> the mess that we are in, our Government has cast God to the side. Have
you
> noticed that with every removal of God from our schools and government
> buildings the worse things get? We need his constant reminder of what is
> right and wrong. Many have forgotten that one day he will return to
> straighten this mess out and there will be no negotiating or politics
> allowed.

It has been argued since Adam Smith that Capitalism must have a moral base
to counteract its inherent greed.

I've been convinced for years that, when the distinction between morality
and legality is blurred, as is done in our law schools, and then allowing
your "law makers" to be predominately products of that system, is the
mechanism that will be the root of our downfall.


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/14/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

I bet this is a true story. ;~)


"Doug Winterburn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
>
> Two boys in Boston were playing baseball when one of them was attacked by
> a killer Rottweiler. The dog had already locked his jaws on the boy's
> legs.
>
> Thinking quickly, the other boy ripped a board off of a nearby fence,
> wedged it into the dog's collar and twisted it, breaking the dog's neck.
>
> A newspaper reporter from the Boston Herald witnessed the incident and
> rushed over to interview the boy.
>
> The reporter began entering data into his laptop, beginning with the
> headline, "Brave Boston Red Sox Fan Saves Friend from Jaws of Vicious
> Animal."
>
> "But I'm not a Boston Red Sox fan," the little hero interjected. "Sorry"
> replied the reporter. "But since we're in Boston, I just assumed you
> were."
>
> Hitting the delete key, the reporter began again, "John Kerry Fan Res cues
> Friend from Horrific Dog Attack"
>
> "But I'm not a John Kerry fan either," the boy responds. The reporter
> says, "I assumed everybody in this state was either for the Red Sox, John
> Kerry, or Ted Kennedy. What team or person do you like?''
>
> "I'm a Texas Ranger fan, and I really like George W. Bush", the boy says.
>
> Hitting the delete key, the reporter began again:
>
> "Arrogant Little Republican Bastard Kills Beloved Family Pet."

Chip Buchholtz wrote:

> Quoting Reuters: "Apple forecast a quarterly profit below analysts'
> expectations and posted disappointing holiday-season iPod shipments,
> sending its shares down 11 percent in after-hours trade on Tuesday."

So their ipod sales are down, but overall they're up:

"We're thrilled to report our best quarter ever, with the highest
revenue and earnings in Apple's history," said Steve Jobs in a statement."

Doesn't seem like much of a problem overall.

Chris

RE: Subject

How many BILLIONS of $ do the banking/money industries have to write
off to get your attention?

Hell yes, they were greedy, but in the end, John Q Public will get
stuck with the bill, just like the S&L bailout of 20 years ago.

The puppetiers that control 1600 Pennsylvania Av just haven't figured
out how to get the unwashed masses to save their greedy asses yet, all
in the name of saving the economy.

Meanwhile, the housing industry here in SoCal is in real trouble
except for the multi million $ segment.

So much for the media generated "doom & gloom" theory.

Lew

"BDBConstruction" wrote:

You dont think McCain even has a whiff of a chance? I keep wondering
if he is the sleeper even though he has been been in the light for a
while.


The Republicans have a group of middle aged white guys with no new
ideas as a group of candidates.

It's too bad, but they are totally clueless.

Lew

Swingman wrote:

> "Chip Buchholtz" wrote
>
>> I agree that there doesn't seem to be much of a problem.
>
> Therefore, my friend ... the WTF? in the subject line! :)
>
> There's always one or two cows in every herd that will spook/stampede the
> entire bunch based on nothing but an imagined danger ... just a farm boy's
> observation, but you would expect that people would have more sense.
>
> Since that's not the case, maybe more folks just need to be aware that
> "there doesn't seem to be much of a problem" to stop the stampede, cuz
> somebody's damn sure not getting the word out.
>
> ... and there's that subject line again. <g>
>

I'm going to be much less kind than others and not give the benefit of the
doubt to journalists just trying to feed a 24 hour news cycle. They could
get the same reaction on the business front by reporting the good news of
the economy (record low unemployment rates, near full employment, etc) or
just for a change reporting the facts instead of speculation and opinion.
The fact of the matter is the very same journalists who excoriated the
current president when he was a candidate in 2000 for making some very soft
comments regarding concerns about observed softness in the economy
as "talking down the economy" completely reversed course when he took
office and have been attempting to convince the country we are on the brink
of a depression for the past 8 years. These "journalists" are agenda
driven and doing their best to make sure the economy is in a condition that
enhances the chances of their chosen candidates being elected this fall.
The reporting over the past 8 years has been abysmal. Think about how many
times the main stream media has reported headlines or stories that
read, " ... the economy surprised experts this past week as it posted the
strongest jobless rate in ..." , "... analysts were surprised by the strong
economic showing exhibited as companies posted record high profits ...",
or "... contrary to experts expectations, the economy grew a surprising xx%
last quarter when they had forecast a yy% loss..." After so many failures,
how come these "experts" are still being used as sources? IMHO, it is
because the prediction fits the template of a soup-line America that the
media is trying to portray so that their statist brethren can regain
political power. Reuters, AP, NBC, CNN, etc would really like to report
these news stories with headlines like, "The US economy exhibited another
strong showing last quarter, dammit"

When there is bad news, look at how exited the media reporters get, they
are almost to the point of jumping up and down with excitement, "The
jobless rate last month surged to a 4.7% rate, the highest in 5 years,
YIPPEE! We're about the have a recession! Now maybe you morons will elect
leftists to power, Yea! Recession! "

--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

Lew Hodgett wrote:

> RE: Subject
>
> How many BILLIONS of $ do the banking/money industries have to write
> off to get your attention?
>

How many billions out of what number of trillions in good debt that is not
being written off? Just tossing out the word "billions" doesn't define the
magnitude of the problem, it's the percentage of bad to good loans that
matters.


> Hell yes, they were greedy, but in the end, John Q Public will get
> stuck with the bill, just like the S&L bailout of 20 years ago.
>
> The puppetiers that control 1600 Pennsylvania Av just haven't figured
> out how to get the unwashed masses to save their greedy asses yet, all
> in the name of saving the economy.

That tinfoil hat must pinch, eh?

>
> Meanwhile, the housing industry here in SoCal is in real trouble
> except for the multi million $ segment.
>

That's because SoCal is part of a nanny state with high taxes and
dispensing government largesse to as many as they can, including
non-citizens while taking that money from productive citizens. Despite its
physical attractiveness, California's high real-estate prices, high taxes,
and intrusive government make it highly unattractive for a large segment of
people who would otherwise consider moving there. One of the easiest
recruitments for our company is getting someone from California -- they are
looking to get out.

> So much for the media generated "doom & gloom" theory.
>
> Lew

--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

BDBConstruction wrote:

> On Jan 23, 6:48 pm, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Lew Hodgett" wrote
>>
>> > So much for the media generated "doom & gloom" theory.
>>
>> My bet is that we'll know soon after Nov 8, shortly after the Dem's take
>> office (Republican politicians have proven to be too damn stupid to pay
>> attention to the real issues; have too much, media wise, going against
>> them; and will pay the piper for leaving their constituents hanging out
>> to dry these past 8 years) what the reality of that theory really is/was.
>>
>> --www.e-woodshop.net
>> Last update: 12/14/07
>> KarlC@ (the obvious)
>
> You dont think McCain even has a whiff of a chance? I keep wondering
> if he is the sleeper even though he has been been in the light for a
> while.
>

I think Swingman was talking about Republicans, not RINO's. Sure, the
media and dems swoon over McCain now, saying how he is an "attractive"
candidate, but do you really believe that democrats are going to vote for
dem-lite or the real thing?

The only thing McCain has been solid on is the war against Islamofascism.
On everything else, he is more left than even centrist. He opposed tax
cuts, he co-sponsored the bill that has attempted to abrogate the first
amendment, he is for amnesty (it's not amnesty, darnit! They have to pay a
fine! It's not amnesty I say) for illegal aliens.

--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

Leon wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> The ones that come to mind are a couple of restaurants. I was really
>> surprised when the Home Town Buffet went under--they were always
>> packed.
>
> If they were always packed, and actually went out of business it was because
> of piss poor management.
> Never has an "always packed" establishment gone out of business due to a
> lack of business.
> Perhaps they were not always packed.
>
[snip]
Nobody goes there anymore; it's too crowded. (attrb Y. Berra) :-)

"BDBConstruction" wrote:

>Because as a statistical democrat, I am scared to death that billary
>will get in. If it was bill getting in again I could tolerate it but
>call me a man, hillary scares the sh*t out of me.

If you think about it, that's not necessarily a bad thing.

If she scares the sh*t out of you, wonder what the leaders of the rest
of the world think?

Maybe you call it fear, maybe you call it respect.

Either way, maybe it's a case of they know better than to f**k with
her.

Just a thought.

Lew

Leon wrote:

>
> "Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
...snip
>
> God has guided us in the past and because we allowed watered down morals
> to appease and not offend the undeserving it is a small wonder why we are
> in
> the mess that we are in, our Government has cast God to the side. Have
> you noticed that with every removal of God from our schools and government
> buildings the worse things get? We need his constant reminder of what is
> right and wrong. Many have forgotten that one day he will return to
> straighten this mess out and there will be no negotiating or politics
> allowed.
>
> Rant off. ;~)

Too bad you are all the way in Houston, I wouldn't mind spending some
evenings on the porch yakking with ya'



--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

Lew Hodgett wrote:

>
> "BDBConstruction" wrote:
>
>>Because as a statistical democrat, I am scared to death that billary
>>will get in. If it was bill getting in again I could tolerate it but
>>call me a man, hillary scares the sh*t out of me.
>
> If you think about it, that's not necessarily a bad thing.
>
> If she scares the sh*t out of you, wonder what the leaders of the rest
> of the world think?
>
> Maybe you call it fear, maybe you call it respect.
>
> Either way, maybe it's a case of they know better than to f**k with
> her.
>
> Just a thought.
>
> Lew

Whoa! Time-out here. I thought the problem with other governments and
their attitude toward us is that the "cowboy" Bush has caused them to fear
us. The incessant meme is that we need to be engaging in dialog with all
these countries, not making them fear us.

So, if it's Hillary they are afraid of, or "respect" so we don't hurt them
it's OK. If it's Bush, it's cowboy diplomacy. Got it.


--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

"Charlie Self" wrote:

> I shop about the way you do, when it is necessary to shop somewhere
> outside my office chair.

If I can't get it either on line or by picking up the phone and issuing a
PO, then waiting for UPS to deliver, I probably don't need it.

There are two exceptions, the hardware store down the street and the
supermarket next door; however, only go to the supermarket early in the
morning, otherwise forget it.

Lew

"Chip Buchholtz" wrote

> I agree that there doesn't seem to be much of a problem.

Therefore, my friend ... the WTF? in the subject line! :)

There's always one or two cows in every herd that will spook/stampede the
entire bunch based on nothing but an imagined danger ... just a farm boy's
observation, but you would expect that people would have more sense.

Since that's not the case, maybe more folks just need to be aware that
"there doesn't seem to be much of a problem" to stop the stampede, cuz
somebody's damn sure not getting the word out.

... and there's that subject line again. <g>

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/14/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Jan 23, 3:44 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> My friends and me have our own measureing stick for the economy.
>
> It's the high school vehicle index.
>
> We noticed several years ago that most high school and beginning
> college kids drive nicer, newer, and signiifcantly more expensive
> vehicles than we do. Somewhere along the way it became necessary for
> confused parents to give their non working kiddos a sports car, SUV or
> a decked out truck for getting all the way to their senior year in
> high school.
>
> That bar has now been move down to the junior year.
>
> We know the kids don't work, and if they do they usually don't
> contribute to the household, So our theory is this:
>
> If a family can support a vehicle each for the Dad, the Mom, and
> probably two kids, including teenage priced insurance, $3 a gallon
> gas, and the kids contribute nothing but continueing the deperate
> fight to stay in school, then the economy probably isn't doing too
> badly.
>
> Especially if the average age of the vehicles are less than 3 - 5
> years.
>
> Some of the high schools here have baby Mercedes, Acuras, new Lexus
> convertibles, a few baby Hummers and lots of nice new trucks. Sure,
> someone may get stuck with Mom's old Buick luxury SUV, but we figure
> that may actually be some form of punishment.
>
> So all in all based on our highly scientific observation, the economy
> is doing fine.
>
> Being worried about buying your kids the newest iPod is not the same
> as actually wondering if you can collect a check to feed your family.

By this measure, the things are going great! I live beside an "almost
Ivy" college. There's nothing that makes me feel more successful than
seeing a 19 year old college student step out of his late model
Mercedes S-class sedan....

Jeff

Swingman wrote:
> 1/22/08: "We're thrilled to report our best quarter ever, with the highest
> revenue and earnings in Apple's history," said Steve Jobs in a statement.
> "We have an incredibly strong new product pipeline for 2008, starting with
> MacBook Air, Mac Pro and iTunes Movie Rentals in the first two weeks." Apple
> easily beat its own guidance from last quarter-$9.2 billion in revenue and
> $1.42 EPS.<snip>
>
> 1/23/08: NEW YORK (Reuters) - Stocks slid for a sixth day on Wednesday as
> disappointing profit forecasts from Apple Inc, <snip>
>
> Who said there are no "doom and gloom" reportage going on?
>
> I did an informal poll this past week from my suppliers and subs. They ALL
> stated without exception that the last quarter, in particular November and
> December 07, was the best business in their history, My foundation guy is so
> busy he can't return phone calls and my painter is running three extra crews
> all last year ... Granted, it's regional, but Jeeezus, these are folks in
> the construction business!
>
> "Somebody" is stirring shit instead of telling the truth! If this is
> election year "agendizing", as it appears to be, then this country is
> getting hurt by selfish bastards hungering for power.
>
Houses are going up and selling as fast as they can build them here.
And we have minimal industry here. You can hardly find a parking spot
at a restaurant anywhere I've tried within 50 miles of here. Most
people seem to own a SUV *and* a pickup truck, two of the worst gas
hogs. Haven't seen anyone who looks hungry.
--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

We should limit congressmen to two
terms: one in Congress...

Here in NY it quite the opposite of TX. There is no real new construction
going on. There are very few houses being built. Developments sit either
half empty or nothing at all started on them. Apartments, condo's or
townhouses are not going up. Commercial construction fell way off 18 months
ago and there is no end in sight. Most contractors here have either laid off
or closed up shop. Most unions have there benches full and many of the
talented guys have gone to work in other parts of the country. Our sales
alone are down almost 40%. Company wide we are down 25%.

I had to finish my 3 month forecast yesterday and much like the "analysts",
I had to basically say that if current economic conditions continue, there
will be no new growth and further erosion of the current sales base. Sad in
real terms as last year was our best year but most of the record sales were
recorded in January and Februrary.

It might be the media in some area's, but here it is quickly becoming a
reality

Allen

On Jan 23, 4:46=A0pm, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Mike in Arkansas" wrote in message
> > Given up trying to time the markets. =A0Leave that to others now after a=

> > generally unsuccessful effort over the years. =A0But I work for an
> > industry that is sensitive to home construction and I can tell you not
> > only us but the entire industry is in the pits with no turnaround
> > forecast and the near future. =A0The entire industry is hunkering down,
> > laying off and deferring Capital improvements.
>
> Just left AR after checking on home prices in the Little Rock/Hot Springs
> area, for both buying and selling, and I was surprised at how high prices
> were, relatively, in comparison to Houston, which currently appears to be
> holding steady.
>
> Being also in =A0"home construction" I currently have to disagree with you=
r
> assessment of the "entire industry", or perhaps it just hasn't hit us down=

> here yet.
>
> I do have one house that hasn't sold, but that appears to be more from a
> combination of location, historically slow time of the year for home sales=

> here, and partly, I'm sure, due to the shrillness of the "doom and gloom"
> prognosticators who certainly don't want the current administration reapin=
g
> any benefits of an economy perceived as good in an election year.
>
> IOW, no matter what side you're on there doesn't seem to be an ethical
> problem killing the goose to insure the other side doesn't get credit for
> any eggs.
>
> We are all going to suffer from this selfish, shallow, politically motivat=
ed
> reasoning, despite the source ... and in all likelihood will sit by watch,=

> and not say/do a damn thing about it. :(
>
> --www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 12/14/07
> KarlC@ (the obvious)

We live in the midatlantic region now(10 yrs) North East before that.
Homebuilding business in both locations. I think there may be more to
your "regional" theory than you think. Most contractors we know in NE
have been down for over a year now. Many of the high tech jobs back
there have slowed and the fever has broken. The bubble burst a long
time ago. One of my lumber salesman often talks of a contractor in CT
who built about 100 homes a year for as far back as anyone can
remember and they just closed up shop. Back in NE I have been told of
several small and large subdivisions that have simply shut down mid
progress. Houses in the same subdivision at various stages of
completion and all progress has stopped with several of the finished
homes having not sold.

Of course there are many factors that could contribute to a given
project or a given contractors viability but it sure seems to me like
the average buyer has finally come to there senses and many that
seemed viable were merely teetering between solvency and insolvency
with the little nudge of rising food, fuel, heating, power, and the
like putting them in the red.

I dont think most people realize a majority of american consumers
operate right out at the razors edge of solvency. There is no room for
error in their finances. They have swelled their expenses right out to
the limits of their income or beyond. Petroleum, and its related
effects on absolutely everything in our economy is all it takes to
push them off the edge of the cliff.

While we have been booked solid for years now I have continually said
that the past few years has been absolutely the worst time to build a
house. OSB at or above $20.00/sheet for a period, lumber through the
roof, portland cement products out of sight, asphalt and related
product way up, fuel surcharges on top of fuel surcharges on most
everything that lands on site. But,.. all the while the phone rings
and the contracts keep getting signed. My personal take on it is that
it has just finally caught up with itself. That pace, and those prices
are not sustainable over the long haul. Late 80's redux.

I personally dont think we will see housing prices reduce for quite
some time until homeowners get record prices for their area out of
their heads. Those days are over but it will take a while for that
pill to make it into thier stomach. My perspective is that, as long as
they wait for things to settle, the next few years are going to be a
perfect time for someone with money to buy/build a home. In our
experience immediately after a bump like this is the worst time to
build anything because quality usually takes a big dip waiting for
contractors to get accustom to working for more reasonable rates.

I personally feel bad for all the people who bought/built high because
if that want/have to they are going to wind up selling low. Just like
the mortage crisis though, personal responsibility is where its at.

Mark

"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
>
Snip of a dead on accurate observation.
>
> When there is bad news, look at how exited the media reporters get, they
> are almost to the point of jumping up and down with excitement, "The
> jobless rate last month surged to a 4.7% rate, the highest in 5 years,
> YIPPEE! We're about the have a recession! Now maybe you morons will elect
> leftists to power, Yea! Recession! "


It is getting harder and harder to distinguish the "News" as we know it,
from the "Saturday Night Live NEWS"

As I have mentioned times before, today's "News" is strictly for your
entertainment, be it a comedy or a horror flick.

On Jan 23, 11:18 am, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
> 1/22/08: "We're thrilled to report our best quarter ever, with the highest
> revenue and earnings in Apple's history," said Steve Jobs in a statement.
> "We have an incredibly strong new product pipeline for 2008, starting with
> MacBook Air, Mac Pro and iTunes Movie Rentals in the first two weeks." Apple
> easily beat its own guidance from last quarter-$9.2 billion in revenue and
> $1.42 EPS.<snip>
>
> 1/23/08: NEW YORK (Reuters) - Stocks slid for a sixth day on Wednesday as
> disappointing profit forecasts from Apple Inc, <snip>
>
> Who said there are no "doom and gloom" reportage going on?
>
> I did an informal poll this past week from my suppliers and subs. They ALL
> stated without exception that the last quarter, in particular November and
> December 07, was the best business in their history, My foundation guy is so
> busy he can't return phone calls and my painter is running three extra crews
> all last year ... Granted, it's regional, but Jeeezus, these are folks in
> the construction business!
>
> "Somebody" is stirring shit instead of telling the truth! If this is
> election year "agendizing", as it appears to be, then this country is
> getting hurt by selfish bastards hungering for power.
>

Follow the cardboard, my friend. Follow the cardboard...

(But don't cut it with your bandsaw, I understand it's got staples
that'll wreck your blades...)

"Mike in Arkansas" wrote in message
> Given up trying to time the markets. Leave that to others now after a
> generally unsuccessful effort over the years. But I work for an
> industry that is sensitive to home construction and I can tell you not
> only us but the entire industry is in the pits with no turnaround
> forecast and the near future. The entire industry is hunkering down,
> laying off and deferring Capital improvements.

Just left AR after checking on home prices in the Little Rock/Hot Springs
area, for both buying and selling, and I was surprised at how high prices
were, relatively, in comparison to Houston, which currently appears to be
holding steady.

Being also in "home construction" I currently have to disagree with your
assessment of the "entire industry", or perhaps it just hasn't hit us down
here yet.

I do have one house that hasn't sold, but that appears to be more from a
combination of location, historically slow time of the year for home sales
here, and partly, I'm sure, due to the shrillness of the "doom and gloom"
prognosticators who certainly don't want the current administration reaping
any benefits of an economy perceived as good in an election year.

IOW, no matter what side you're on there doesn't seem to be an ethical
problem killing the goose to insure the other side doesn't get credit for
any eggs.

We are all going to suffer from this selfish, shallow, politically motivated
reasoning, despite the source ... and in all likelihood will sit by watch,
and not say/do a damn thing about it. :(

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/14/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Jan 26, 11:47 am, Robert Haar <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 1/25/08 9:48 AM, "Renata" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 08:18:04 -0600, "Leon"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > -snip-
> >> The malls in Houston were simply getting too damn much trouble to go to.
> >> You could easily spend 20 to 30 minutes by simply parking, walking into the
> >> mall and back out on a busy day. You get to park and walk straight into a
> >> strip center shopping center, and you know exactly where to park.
>
> > I was wondering what the attraction of strip centers was. Now I know.
> > It's too damn much trouble for us now a days to have to walk much.
> > Much better to park, walk in, do our business, walk out, move the car
> > 30', walk into the next store, repeat, (lather and rinse).
>
> > Depends on the kind of shopping, but malls have the advantage of being
> > less spread out (stores on both sides of a walkway) and enclosed (out
> > of weather).
>
> For me, I don't mind walking a bit, but I hate the layout on parking lots in
> many of our local (S.E. Michigan). They seem designed to make it difficult
> to get around. I can understand trying to slow down traffic in areas that
> have heavy pedestrian use, but why would retail stores want to make it a
> pain to drive into their parking lots. Maybe it's just stupidity, but some
> of these designs are so bad that it is hard for me to believe that it isn't
> intentional.
>
> Also, some of our enclosed malls are bigger than any strip mall that I have
> seen - a one mile circuit of the main floor. I don't mind walking from one
> store to another half way around. But I get frustrated when I cannot easily
> park.
>
> On the other hand, my shopping habits may be atypical. I rarely go "shopping
> around" through a number of stores. My typical shop is for a single specific
> item - woodworking gear/materials, outdoor gear or an electronics item. So I
> do my basic research and comparison shopping on line. Then I have a specific
> item at a particular store as my target. I may have a back store in case the
> first one doesn't have the item, or I may want to get my hands on some
> competing items to see which one really fits my usage.
>

I shop about the way you do, when it is necessary to shop somewhere
outside my office chair.

I do not like malls, characterless buildings attempting to look trendy
(whatever the hell that is this week: I saw a photo of the new suit
styles, where the guy looks like Li'il Abner with sleeves barely
reaching the wrist, pants 5" above the shoes, etc.), so if I have to
hit one, it is a well planned trip--and it never happens from November
10th through January 25th. I do not want ANYTHING bad enough to deal
with crowds any more.

The worst retail stores I've ever seen, as far as parking lot access
goes, are Home Depot. Even the one in Roanoke, with literally acres of
parking, has made it a solid PITA to find the right way in. The one in
Parkersburg, WV is unbelievably bad, even though it's only a few years
old. There's a Lowe's in Roanoke, too, that is awful.

All in all, good reasons for staying home; I understand we're getting
a new Lowe's here either this year or next--they put these places up
so fast that it sometimes seems anything approved before the weather
breaks in early March is done by July or August. Maybe a new Kroger's
food store, too. Those will be gas savers for many people in the
county. From my house, it is going to be about 11 miles to the Lowe's
site, versus 30 miles to the closest one in Lynchburg. Use to be, if
you bought over $150 worth of building materials, delivery was free. I
haven't bought enough to need delivery in a decade, but from what I
understand, the bottom limit is a lot higher now.

On Jan 24, 9:34=A0pm, Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> wrote:
> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>
> > "BDBConstruction" wrote:
>
> >>Because as a statistical democrat, I am scared to death that billary
> >>will get in. If it was bill getting in again I could tolerate it but
> >>call me a man, hillary scares the sh*t out of me.
>
> > If you think about it, that's not necessarily a bad thing.
>
> > If she scares the sh*t out of you, wonder what the leaders of the rest
> > of the world think?
>
> > Maybe you call it fear, maybe you call it respect.
>
> > Either way, maybe it's a case of they know better than to f**k with
> > her.
>
> > Just a thought.
>
> > Lew
>
> =A0 Whoa! Time-out here. =A0I thought the problem with other governments a=
nd
> their attitude toward us is that the "cowboy" Bush has caused them to fear=

> us. =A0The incessant meme is that we need to be engaging in dialog with al=
l
> these countries, not making them fear us. =A0
>
> =A0 So, if it's Hillary they are afraid of, or "respect" so we don't hurt =
them
> it's OK. =A0If it's Bush, it's cowboy diplomacy. =A0Got it.
>
Bullies. Both of them.

My friends and me have our own measureing stick for the economy.

It's the high school vehicle index.

We noticed several years ago that most high school and beginning
college kids drive nicer, newer, and signiifcantly more expensive
vehicles than we do. Somewhere along the way it became necessary for
confused parents to give their non working kiddos a sports car, SUV or
a decked out truck for getting all the way to their senior year in
high school.

That bar has now been move down to the junior year.

We know the kids don't work, and if they do they usually don't
contribute to the household, So our theory is this:

If a family can support a vehicle each for the Dad, the Mom, and
probably two kids, including teenage priced insurance, $3 a gallon
gas, and the kids contribute nothing but continueing the deperate
fight to stay in school, then the economy probably isn't doing too
badly.

Especially if the average age of the vehicles are less than 3 - 5
years.

Some of the high schools here have baby Mercedes, Acuras, new Lexus
convertibles, a few baby Hummers and lots of nice new trucks. Sure,
someone may get stuck with Mom's old Buick luxury SUV, but we figure
that may actually be some form of punishment.

So all in all based on our highly scientific observation, the economy
is doing fine.

Being worried about buying your kids the newest iPod is not the same
as actually wondering if you can collect a check to feed your family.

Robert

"George" wrote

> Trolling?

Naah, it raining. You biting on a troll?

>If you haven't realized by now that "cuts" in programs don't mean
> less money, that profits that fall below someone's fantasy are
disappointing
> or even threatening, and that a "record profit" for oil companies doesn't
> mean they're getting any higher margin, then you're just plain dense.

Can't argue with that.

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KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 1/25/08 9:48 AM, "Renata" <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 08:18:04 -0600, "Leon"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> -snip-
>> The malls in Houston were simply getting too damn much trouble to go to.
>> You could easily spend 20 to 30 minutes by simply parking, walking into the
>> mall and back out on a busy day. You get to park and walk straight into a
>> strip center shopping center, and you know exactly where to park.
>>
>
> I was wondering what the attraction of strip centers was. Now I know.
> It's too damn much trouble for us now a days to have to walk much.
> Much better to park, walk in, do our business, walk out, move the car
> 30', walk into the next store, repeat, (lather and rinse).
>
> Depends on the kind of shopping, but malls have the advantage of being
> less spread out (stores on both sides of a walkway) and enclosed (out
> of weather).

For me, I don't mind walking a bit, but I hate the layout on parking lots in
many of our local (S.E. Michigan). They seem designed to make it difficult
to get around. I can understand trying to slow down traffic in areas that
have heavy pedestrian use, but why would retail stores want to make it a
pain to drive into their parking lots. Maybe it's just stupidity, but some
of these designs are so bad that it is hard for me to believe that it isn't
intentional.

Also, some of our enclosed malls are bigger than any strip mall that I have
seen - a one mile circuit of the main floor. I don't mind walking from one
store to another half way around. But I get frustrated when I cannot easily
park.

On the other hand, my shopping habits may be atypical. I rarely go "shopping
around" through a number of stores. My typical shop is for a single specific
item - woodworking gear/materials, outdoor gear or an electronics item. So I
do my basic research and comparison shopping on line. Then I have a specific
item at a particular store as my target. I may have a back store in case the
first one doesn't have the item, or I may want to get my hands on some
competing items to see which one really fits my usage.

Bob Haar

"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "BDBConstruction" wrote:
>
>>Because as a statistical democrat, I am scared to death that billary
>>will get in. If it was bill getting in again I could tolerate it but
>>call me a man, hillary scares the sh*t out of me.
>
> If you think about it, that's not necessarily a bad thing.
>
> If she scares the sh*t out of you, wonder what the leaders of the rest
> of the world think?

I believe they would think get her before she gets us.




>
> Maybe you call it fear, maybe you call it respect.
>
> Either way, maybe it's a case of they know better than to f**k with
> her.


Us too, lets not let her get in and we will not have to worry about her.

They F'ed with Bush and look what happened.

"Chip Buchholtz" wrote in message

> I think you have it backwards.

I think you miss the point.

> Apple's "performance" was
> disappointing, and that's what's affecting its share price.

Disappointing to who ... 'Analysts''?

What could possibly be "disappointing" about the "highest revenue/earnings
in Apple's history"

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080122-last-quarter-brought-highest-revenue-in-apples-history.html

That's "performance, Bubba ... any way you cut it. ;)

F%$k a bunch of "analysts' ...... the same folks who drive up oil prices
when someone spits on the street.

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KarlC@ (the obvious)

<[email protected]> wrote

> So all in all based on our highly scientific observation, the economy
> is doing fine.

LOL ... thank you, Alan Greenspan, Jr, for that optimistic report!

Your research is likely as valid as the Federal Reserve economists'!

> Being worried about buying your kids the newest iPod is not the same
> as actually wondering if you can collect a check to feed your family.

Or worse in actuality ... making the next cc payment.

In that eventuality, you'd best know how to pluck a chicken, have a garden
planted, and a 12 ga to protect it.

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KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Lew Hodgett" wrote

> So much for the media generated "doom & gloom" theory.

My bet is that we'll know soon after Nov 8, shortly after the Dem's take
office (Republican politicians have proven to be too damn stupid to pay
attention to the real issues; have too much, media wise, going against them;
and will pay the piper for leaving their constituents hanging out to dry
these past 8 years) what the reality of that theory really is/was.

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KarlC@ (the obvious)

"BDBConstruction" wrote\

> You dont think McCain even has a whiff of a chance? I keep wondering
> if he is the sleeper even though he has been been in the light for a
> while.

I doubt that conservative leaning Dems would vote for him, and he's a
conservative in name only to most Republicans. He'll need more than that,
IMO ... but hell, if I had a clue I'd be "flogging and blogging" it, eh?

;)

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KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Chip Buchholtz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Chris Friesen <[email protected]> wrote:
> : Chip Buchholtz wrote:
>
> : > Quoting Reuters: "Apple forecast a quarterly profit below analysts'
> : > expectations and posted disappointing holiday-season iPod shipments,
> : > sending its shares down 11 percent in after-hours trade on Tuesday."
>
> : So their ipod sales are down, but overall they're up:
>
> : "We're thrilled to report our best quarter ever, with the highest
> : revenue and earnings in Apple's history," said Steve Jobs in a
> statement."
>
> : Doesn't seem like much of a problem overall.
>
> I agree that there doesn't seem to be much of a problem.
>
> Probably their "best quarter ever" was still "below analysts'
> expectations", and the stock price was based on the analysts'
> expectations, so the stock price went down. It looks like Apple was
> at about 90 a year ago, was at 200 in December, and is now at 128.
> So, Apple went up about 42% in the last year, even with the recent
> drops. 42% in one year is not bad!
>
> I was just saying that it's not all made up numbers.
>
> --- Chip

It's a conspiracy by the analysts so they can buy the stock at a cheaper
price.

Jeff wrote:
>
> By this measure, the things are going great! I live beside an "almost
> Ivy" college. There's nothing that makes me feel more successful than
> seeing a 19 year old college student step out of his late model
> Mercedes S-class sedan....

I love next to one of the "Seven Sisters", so I know exactly what you
mean!

"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
>
> I think Swingman was talking about Republicans, not RINO's. Sure, the
> media and dems swoon over McCain now, saying how he is an "attractive"
> candidate, but do you really believe that democrats are going to vote for
> dem-lite or the real thing?
>
> The only thing McCain has been solid on is the war against Islamofascism.
> On everything else, he is more left than even centrist. He opposed tax
> cuts, he co-sponsored the bill that has attempted to abrogate the first
> amendment, he is for amnesty (it's not amnesty, darnit! They have to pay a
> fine! It's not amnesty I say) for illegal aliens.
>
> --
> If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough


Ironic how Bush is spotlighted as the worst president ever, I guess those
people were not around during the Carter daze, and no candidate, Republican
of Democratic, seems a better choice now.

Typically if you run for office and you speak, you are either telling a lie,
are sadly incompetent, or both.

Personally, I blame the loss of morals in this country, minorities are held
to a lower standard, illegals are bringing in more crime and the government
wants to give it all away to the new American Illegals.
All Governments are corrupt, always have been, and always will be and
unfortunately we really have no control as voting is a joke. We could all
vote for 1 person and the electoral college could pick the other
guy. Take Bush for example, he became president his first term but did not
get the majority of the citizens and non-citizens vote. While he has had a
bad second term, IMHO he was still the better choice during both elections,
the lesser of two evils.

God has guided us in the past and because we allowed watered down morals to
appease and not offend the undeserving it is a small wonder why we are in
the mess that we are in, our Government has cast God to the side. Have you
noticed that with every removal of God from our schools and government
buildings the worse things get? We need his constant reminder of what is
right and wrong. Many have forgotten that one day he will return to
straighten this mess out and there will be no negotiating or politics
allowed.

Rant off. ;~)

Swingman wrote:
> 1/22/08: "We're thrilled to report our best quarter ever, with the highest
> revenue and earnings in Apple's history," said Steve Jobs in a statement.
> "We have an incredibly strong new product pipeline for 2008, starting with
> MacBook Air, Mac Pro and iTunes Movie Rentals in the first two weeks." Apple
> easily beat its own guidance from last quarter-$9.2 billion in revenue and
> $1.42 EPS.<snip>
>
> 1/23/08: NEW YORK (Reuters) - Stocks slid for a sixth day on Wednesday as
> disappointing profit forecasts from Apple Inc, <snip>
>
> Who said there are no "doom and gloom" reportage going on?
>
> I did an informal poll this past week from my suppliers and subs. They ALL
> stated without exception that the last quarter, in particular November and
> December 07, was the best business in their history, My foundation guy is so
> busy he can't return phone calls and my painter is running three extra crews
> all last year ... Granted, it's regional, but Jeeezus, these are folks in
> the construction business!
>
> "Somebody" is stirring shit instead of telling the truth! If this is
> election year "agendizing", as it appears to be, then this country is
> getting hurt by selfish bastards hungering for power.
>

Two boys in Boston were playing baseball when one of them was attacked
by a killer Rottweiler. The dog had already locked his jaws on the boy's
legs.

Thinking quickly, the other boy ripped a board off of a nearby fence,
wedged it into the dog's collar and twisted it, breaking the dog's neck.

A newspaper reporter from the Boston Herald witnessed the incident and
rushed over to interview the boy.

The reporter began entering data into his laptop, beginning with the
headline, "Brave Boston Red Sox Fan Saves Friend from Jaws of Vicious
Animal."

"But I'm not a Boston Red Sox fan," the little hero interjected. "Sorry"
replied the reporter. "But since we're in Boston, I just assumed you were."

Hitting the delete key, the reporter began again, "John Kerry Fan Res
cues Friend from Horrific Dog Attack"

"But I'm not a John Kerry fan either," the boy responds. The reporter
says, "I assumed everybody in this state was either for the Red Sox,
John Kerry, or Ted Kennedy. What team or person do you like?''

"I'm a Texas Ranger fan, and I really like George W. Bush", the boy says.

Hitting the delete key, the reporter began again:

"Arrogant Little Republican Bastard Kills Beloved Family Pet."

On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 09:44:57 -0600, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Renata" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 20:24:41 -0700, Mark & Juanita
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I'm going to be much less kind than others and not give the benefit of
>>> the
>>>doubt to journalists just trying to feed a 24 hour news cycle. They could
>>>get the same reaction on the business front by reporting the good news of
>>>the economy (record low unemployment rates, near full employment, etc) or
>>>just for a change reporting the facts instead of speculation and opinion.
>> -snip-
>>
>> First, in other economic news, just learned that Hershey Chocolate is
>> moving to Mexico! [not totally verified]
>
>Shame on Hershey. Or is it shame on the union for running Hershey off to a
>more reasonable cost labor force?
>
>
'More reasonable cost of living in Mexico compared to the US. I guess
we should all just up and move there since it's so much cheaper.

Renata

On Jan 23, 7:59=A0pm, Jeff <[email protected]> wrote:
>You might get your Walnuts McCain but I'm not sure why you'd
> want him...
>
> Jeff- Hide quoted text -


Because as a statistical democrat, I am scared to death that billary
will get in. If it was bill getting in again I could tolerate it but
call me a man, hillary scares the sh*t out of me. When you can see
fire in her eyes (and I dont mean the fires of passion for progress,
motivation, etc), I mean fire of anger. That look of a mother that
though she wants to beat the living sh*t out of her kid in public in
the grocery line she knows its not socially acceptable so she is going
to wait until she gets you in the car to ream your ass. The look that
causes a young child to wince as they know a full blow slap is soon to
follow. You see it every time she gets riled in a debate.

This isnt a look I have seen throughout my life, my own mother was a
very passive person, but its a look I have seen many times on jobs, in
public, etc, on womens/mothers faces who have a sincere and deep
desire to maintain control over everything in their lives.

Its a personal thing. I think Hillary is angry at her core and I am
concerned with the influence of that anger.

Obama, while I would love to see it, I dont think he is ready.
Edwards, I absolutely love his anti-establishment positions but I dont
think he has a chance.

May seem odd but I see McCain as a middle ground. It would be one of
the few republicans I have voted for but, for me, it would be a
confident vote. Not saying that would/should be the case for anyone
else. He has a lot of positions that I am very opposed to but the ones
I agree with outweigh those.

Mark

"Jeff" wrote

> For a Republican to win, he *MUST* sweep the South. That means he
> needs the nutter vote. Walnuts McCain doesn't inspire core Republican
> voters. These people won't vote for a Democrat but they will stay home
> if the Republican isn't sufficiently Jesusy. Sure Walnuts snuggled up
> to Jerry Falwell but everyone knows that was bullshit pandering. I
> think he wins the nomination but loses a couple key Southern states in
> the general election. Watch North Carolina and Virginia fall the other
> way. And maybe Florida.
>
> That said, we're still talking about Democrats. They can snatch defeat
> from the jaws of victory. When public backlash against the war was
> high, who did they nominate? John Kerry, a man who claimed he could
> out commander-in-chief Bush. Sure, a monkey could do that. But the
> public didn't want a better war. They wanted out. It's too close to
> call. You might get your Walnuts McCain but I'm not sure why you'd
> want him...

Interesting ... gotta love the perspective!

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KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Jan 23, 6:48=A0pm, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Lew Hodgett" wrote
>
> > So much for the media generated "doom & gloom" theory.
>
> My bet is that we'll know soon after Nov 8, shortly after the Dem's take
> office (Republican politicians have proven to be too damn stupid to pay
> attention to the real issues; have too much, media wise, going against the=
m;
> and will pay the piper for leaving their constituents hanging out to dry
> these past 8 years) what the reality of that theory really is/was.
>
> --www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 12/14/07
> KarlC@ (the obvious)

You dont think McCain even has a whiff of a chance? I keep wondering
if he is the sleeper even though he has been been in the light for a
while.

Mark

Given up trying to time the markets. Leave that to others now after a
generally unsuccessful effort over the years. But I work for an
industry that is sensitive to home construction and I can tell you not
only us but the entire industry is in the pits with no turnaround
forecast and the near future. The entire industry is hunkering down,
laying off and deferring Capital improvements.

On Jan 23, 10:24=A0pm, Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
> > "Chip Buchholtz" wrote
>
> >> I agree that there doesn't seem to be much of a problem.
>
> > Therefore, my friend ... the WTF? in the subject line! =A0 :)
>
> > There's always one or two cows in every herd that will spook/stampede th=
e
> > entire bunch based on nothing but an imagined danger ... just a farm boy=
's
> > observation, but you would expect that people would have more sense.
>
> > Since that's not the case, maybe more folks just need to be aware that
> > "there doesn't seem to be much of a problem" to stop the stampede, cuz
> > somebody's damn sure not getting the word out.
>
> > ... and there's that subject line again. <g>
>
> =A0 I'm going to be much less kind than others and not give the benefit of=
the
> doubt to journalists just trying to feed a 24 hour news cycle. =A0They cou=
ld
> get the same reaction on the business front by reporting the good news of
> the economy (record low unemployment rates, near full employment, etc) or
> just for a change reporting the facts instead of speculation and opinion.
> The fact of the matter is the very same journalists who excoriated the
> current president when he was a candidate in 2000 for making some very sof=
t
> comments regarding concerns about observed softness in the economy
> as "talking down the economy" completely reversed course when he took
> office and have been attempting to convince the country we are on the brin=
k
> of a depression for the past 8 years. =A0These "journalists" are agenda
> driven and doing their best to make sure the economy is in a condition tha=
t
> enhances the chances of their chosen candidates being elected this fall.
> The reporting over the past 8 years has been abysmal. =A0Think about how m=
any
> times the main stream media has reported headlines or stories that
> read, " ... the economy surprised experts this past week as it posted the
> strongest jobless rate in ..." , "... analysts were surprised by the stron=
g
> economic showing exhibited as companies posted record high profits ...",
> or "... contrary to experts expectations, the economy grew a surprising xx=
%
> last quarter when they had forecast a yy% loss..." =A0After so many failur=
es,
> how come these "experts" are still being used as sources? =A0IMHO, it is
> because the prediction fits the template of a soup-line America that the
> media is trying to portray so that their statist brethren can regain
> political power. =A0Reuters, AP, NBC, CNN, etc would really like to report=

> these news stories with headlines like, "The US economy exhibited another
> strong showing last quarter, dammit" =A0
>
> =A0 When there is bad news, look at how exited the media reporters get, th=
ey
> are almost to the point of jumping up and down with excitement, "The
> jobless rate last month surged to a 4.7% rate, the highest in 5 years,
> YIPPEE! We're about the have a recession! =A0Now maybe you morons will ele=
ct
> leftists to power, Yea! Recession! "
>
> --
> If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

With all do respect, and I do mean that, this is simply regurgetating
yet another media outlet that is equally nausiating. The simple fact
of the matter to which you speak is that the media, _all media_, has
simply become more and more sensationalist in an attempt to retain
viewership, period. Every year it has less and less to do with fact,
data, and balance, and more an more to do with sensationalism. All
media, ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, CNN, etc. has seen the viability and
followed the lead of The National Enquirer and paparazzi(sp). All that
matters in these threads is whether your single source media source is
winning, or losing. When yours is winning, you say nothing, when yours
is losing, you complain. ("you" doesnt mean you)

A perfect, and most basic, example: I have worked in the homebuilding
business for 20 years. It used to be that you could rely on the
weather forecast to plan your week. A roof? Siding? Had you ought to
plan inside work for this week? A mix of both? Those days are long
gone. This is because the news directors, through the weather
forecasters will just about call a 10% chance of rain as "possible
local flooding". They will take this to the extent of saying, on a
sunny day, "we cant however rule out that you can leave your
umbrella's at home". Its all about alarmism an panic. It happens on
all news levels above and including weather. What they are trying to
generate is a low level fear to keep you tuning in, and clearly it
works. Its why we see constant news break-ins, banners, school
closings in prime time, "severe weather advisory's".

They all do it, all of them.

The real test with news, and .001% of the population passes, is to
read/view all of them, in their entirety, contemplate, and filter out
your own conclusion. Though many say that is what they are doing,
liars have become all too prevalent in this society. In todays society
unfortunately many rely on single source media to exclusively filter
their news for them and then they regurgetate. Its very hard work to
watch, listen to, and read, dozens of outlets and viewpoints
completely, even those you dont absolutely agree with, or completely
disagree with, and then form your own coclusion.

The true test is when you cant see validity in certain segments of
both sides. That is the test of moderation.

Mark

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 13:08:15 -0800 (PST), Mike in Arkansas
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Given up trying to time the markets. Leave that to others now after a
>generally unsuccessful effort over the years. But I work for an
>industry that is sensitive to home construction and I can tell you not
>only us but the entire industry is in the pits with no turnaround
>forecast and the near future. The entire industry is hunkering down,
>laying off and deferring Capital improvements.

We're seeing things slow down here in Wichita too. We usually have 3
or 4 builders keeping us busy and now we're working for 6 builders and
are still not as busy as we'd like. It's not gloom and doom here, and
I don't mind having my weekends off, but we could be busier.

We've also talked to the lumber sales guys and while hardwood prices
are still high (and not moving much) some of the framing material
especially oxboard prices are well below where they were this time
last year. Those prices pretty much reflect national demand (or lack
thereof) so I do think there is some slowdown beyond just this region.
Mike O.

On Jan 23, 1:35 pm, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Jeff wrote:
> > On Jan 23, 11:18 am, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> 1/22/08: "We're thrilled to report our best quarter ever, with the
> >> highest revenue and earnings in Apple's history," said Steve Jobs
> >> in
> >> a statement. "We have an incredibly strong new product pipeline for
> >> 2008, starting with MacBook Air, Mac Pro and iTunes Movie Rentals
> >> in
> >> the first two weeks." Apple easily beat its own guidance from last
> >> quarter-$9.2 billion in revenue and $1.42 EPS.<snip>
>
> >> 1/23/08: NEW YORK (Reuters) - Stocks slid for a sixth day on
> >> Wednesday as disappointing profit forecasts from Apple Inc, <snip>
>
> >> Who said there are no "doom and gloom" reportage going on?
>
> >> I did an informal poll this past week from my suppliers and subs.
> >> They ALL stated without exception that the last quarter, in
> >> particular November and December 07, was the best business in their
> >> history, My foundation guy is so busy he can't return phone calls
> >> and my painter is running three extra crews all last year ...
> >> Granted, it's regional, but Jeeezus, these are folks in the
> >> construction business!
>
> >> "Somebody" is stirring shit instead of telling the truth! If this
> >> is
> >> election year "agendizing", as it appears to be, then this country
> >> is
> >> getting hurt by selfish bastards hungering for power.
>
> > Follow the cardboard, my friend. Follow the cardboard...
>
> > (But don't cut it with your bandsaw, I understand it's got staples
> > that'll wreck your blades...)
>
> Around here I'm noticing businesses that seemed to be well established
> folding. That's never a good sign.
>

I assume you mean in or around Enfield. What types of businesses are
closing?

On Jan 24, 11:36 am, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Leon" wrote
>
>
>
> > God has guided us in the past and because we allowed watered down morals
> to
> > appease and not offend the undeserving it is a small wonder why we are in
> > the mess that we are in, our Government has cast God to the side. Have
> you
> > noticed that with every removal of God from our schools and government
> > buildings the worse things get? We need his constant reminder of what is
> > right and wrong. Many have forgotten that one day he will return to
> > straighten this mess out and there will be no negotiating or politics
> > allowed.
>
> It has been argued since Adam Smith that Capitalism must have a moral base
> to counteract its inherent greed.
>
> I've been convinced for years that, when the distinction between morality
> and legality is blurred, as is done in our law schools, and then allowing
> your "law makers" to be predominately products of that system, is the
> mechanism that will be the root of our downfall.
>

Yes. But it's hard to get lawyers to understand that pissing in the
soup doesn't actually increase the amount of soup.

On Jan 23, 6:57 pm, BDBConstruction <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jan 23, 6:48 pm, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > "Lew Hodgett" wrote
>
> > > So much for the media generated "doom & gloom" theory.
>
> > My bet is that we'll know soon after Nov 8, shortly after the Dem's take
> > office (Republican politicians have proven to be too damn stupid to pay
> > attention to the real issues; have too much, media wise, going against them;
> > and will pay the piper for leaving their constituents hanging out to dry
> > these past 8 years) what the reality of that theory really is/was.
>
> > --www.e-woodshop.net
> > Last update: 12/14/07
> > KarlC@ (the obvious)
>
> You dont think McCain even has a whiff of a chance? I keep wondering
> if he is the sleeper even though he has been been in the light for a
> while.
>

For a Republican to win, he *MUST* sweep the South. That means he
needs the nutter vote. Walnuts McCain doesn't inspire core Republican
voters. These people won't vote for a Democrat but they will stay home
if the Republican isn't sufficiently Jesusy. Sure Walnuts snuggled up
to Jerry Falwell but everyone knows that was bullshit pandering. I
think he wins the nomination but loses a couple key Southern states in
the general election. Watch North Carolina and Virginia fall the other
way. And maybe Florida.

That said, we're still talking about Democrats. They can snatch defeat
from the jaws of victory. When public backlash against the war was
high, who did they nominate? John Kerry, a man who claimed he could
out commander-in-chief Bush. Sure, a monkey could do that. But the
public didn't want a better war. They wanted out. It's too close to
call. You might get your Walnuts McCain but I'm not sure why you'd
want him...

Jeff

Swingman wrote:
> 1/22/08: "We're thrilled to report our best quarter ever, with the highest
> revenue and earnings in Apple's history," said Steve Jobs in a statement.
> "We have an incredibly strong new product pipeline for 2008, starting with
> MacBook Air, Mac Pro and iTunes Movie Rentals in the first two weeks." Apple
> easily beat its own guidance from last quarter-$9.2 billion in revenue and
> $1.42 EPS.<snip>
>
> 1/23/08: NEW YORK (Reuters) - Stocks slid for a sixth day on Wednesday as
> disappointing profit forecasts from Apple Inc, <snip>
>
> Who said there are no "doom and gloom" reportage going on?
...

Well, one is last quarter and the other is forecast for next quarter, so
I think both are right (altho I didn't go check on what Apple actually
published, same basic info on NPR Business Daily last night). That
either is more than passing interest is the difference, of course.
Slightly more import than the bimbo eruption of the day, but not what
the headlines writers want/need...

I do agree the 24/7 media are in a continual feeding frenzy of stirring
the pot for headlines, though, and what politician won't take advantage
of any port in a storm for competitive advantage? :(

--

Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

: "dpb" wrote

: > Well, one is last quarter and the other is forecast for next quarter,

: Sucks, effecting an entire economy based on "forecasts" instead of
: "performance", but what the hell do I know.

I think you have it backwards. Apple's "performance" was
disappointing, and that's what's affecting its share price.

Quoting Reuters: "Apple forecast a quarterly profit below analysts'
expectations and posted disappointing holiday-season iPod shipments,
sending its shares down 11 percent in after-hours trade on Tuesday."

"Posted disappointing holiday-season iPod shipments" is actual
performance, not spin. And I expect the forecast below expectations
means that they haven't closed the books on last quarters profit, but
they know that they did worse than expected. Again, actual
performance.

The stuff about how Apple is real optimistic about their future
earnings is spin, not performance.

--- Chip

Chris Friesen <[email protected]> wrote:
: Chip Buchholtz wrote:

: > Quoting Reuters: "Apple forecast a quarterly profit below analysts'
: > expectations and posted disappointing holiday-season iPod shipments,
: > sending its shares down 11 percent in after-hours trade on Tuesday."

: So their ipod sales are down, but overall they're up:

: "We're thrilled to report our best quarter ever, with the highest
: revenue and earnings in Apple's history," said Steve Jobs in a statement."

: Doesn't seem like much of a problem overall.

I agree that there doesn't seem to be much of a problem.

Probably their "best quarter ever" was still "below analysts'
expectations", and the stock price was based on the analysts'
expectations, so the stock price went down. It looks like Apple was
at about 90 a year ago, was at 200 in December, and is now at 128.
So, Apple went up about 42% in the last year, even with the recent
drops. 42% in one year is not bad!

I was just saying that it's not all made up numbers.

--- Chip

Jeff wrote:
> On Jan 23, 11:18 am, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 1/22/08: "We're thrilled to report our best quarter ever, with the
>> highest revenue and earnings in Apple's history," said Steve Jobs
>> in
>> a statement. "We have an incredibly strong new product pipeline for
>> 2008, starting with MacBook Air, Mac Pro and iTunes Movie Rentals
>> in
>> the first two weeks." Apple easily beat its own guidance from last
>> quarter-$9.2 billion in revenue and $1.42 EPS.<snip>
>>
>> 1/23/08: NEW YORK (Reuters) - Stocks slid for a sixth day on
>> Wednesday as disappointing profit forecasts from Apple Inc, <snip>
>>
>> Who said there are no "doom and gloom" reportage going on?
>>
>> I did an informal poll this past week from my suppliers and subs.
>> They ALL stated without exception that the last quarter, in
>> particular November and December 07, was the best business in their
>> history, My foundation guy is so busy he can't return phone calls
>> and my painter is running three extra crews all last year ...
>> Granted, it's regional, but Jeeezus, these are folks in the
>> construction business!
>>
>> "Somebody" is stirring shit instead of telling the truth! If this
>> is
>> election year "agendizing", as it appears to be, then this country
>> is
>> getting hurt by selfish bastards hungering for power.
>>
>
> Follow the cardboard, my friend. Follow the cardboard...
>
> (But don't cut it with your bandsaw, I understand it's got staples
> that'll wreck your blades...)

Around here I'm noticing businesses that seemed to be well established
folding. That's never a good sign.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Jeff wrote:
> On Jan 23, 1:35 pm, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Jeff wrote:
>>> On Jan 23, 11:18 am, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> 1/22/08: "We're thrilled to report our best quarter ever, with
>>>> the
>>>> highest revenue and earnings in Apple's history," said Steve Jobs
>>>> in
>>>> a statement. "We have an incredibly strong new product pipeline
>>>> for
>>>> 2008, starting with MacBook Air, Mac Pro and iTunes Movie Rentals
>>>> in
>>>> the first two weeks." Apple easily beat its own guidance from
>>>> last
>>>> quarter-$9.2 billion in revenue and $1.42 EPS.<snip>
>>
>>>> 1/23/08: NEW YORK (Reuters) - Stocks slid for a sixth day on
>>>> Wednesday as disappointing profit forecasts from Apple Inc,
>>>> <snip>
>>
>>>> Who said there are no "doom and gloom" reportage going on?
>>
>>>> I did an informal poll this past week from my suppliers and subs.
>>>> They ALL stated without exception that the last quarter, in
>>>> particular November and December 07, was the best business in
>>>> their
>>>> history, My foundation guy is so busy he can't return phone calls
>>>> and my painter is running three extra crews all last year ...
>>>> Granted, it's regional, but Jeeezus, these are folks in the
>>>> construction business!
>>
>>>> "Somebody" is stirring shit instead of telling the truth! If this
>>>> is
>>>> election year "agendizing", as it appears to be, then this
>>>> country
>>>> is
>>>> getting hurt by selfish bastards hungering for power.
>>
>>> Follow the cardboard, my friend. Follow the cardboard...
>>
>>> (But don't cut it with your bandsaw, I understand it's got staples
>>> that'll wreck your blades...)
>>
>> Around here I'm noticing businesses that seemed to be well
>> established folding. That's never a good sign.
>>
>
> I assume you mean in or around Enfield. What types of businesses are
> closing?

The ones that come to mind are a couple of restaurants. I was really
surprised when the Home Town Buffet went under--they were always
packed. Pizza place in the mall that had been there for a decade is
another one. Walking through the mall I see more unoccupied
storefronts than usual.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Renata wrote:
...
> ...Most mainstream economists and pundits will opine that a low
> dollar is good for American industry, because it will help us sell our
> goods. That's only true if we're producing things that no one else is
> -- or producing them better or cheaper -- and we're not.

...

Tell that to Boeing for one and you might look at the ag export sector
as just two examples...

Overall, much "cherry-picking" of results in this essay, sprinkled in w/
some facts.

--

Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> 1/22/08: "We're thrilled to report our best quarter ever, with the
> highest revenue and earnings in Apple's history," said Steve Jobs in
> a statement. "We have an incredibly strong new product pipeline for
> 2008, starting with MacBook Air, Mac Pro and iTunes Movie Rentals in
> the first two weeks." Apple easily beat its own guidance from last
> quarter-$9.2 billion in revenue and $1.42 EPS.<snip>
>
> 1/23/08: NEW YORK (Reuters) - Stocks slid for a sixth day on
> Wednesday as disappointing profit forecasts from Apple Inc, <snip>
>
> Who said there are no "doom and gloom" reportage going on?
>
> I did an informal poll this past week from my suppliers and subs.
> They ALL stated without exception that the last quarter, in
> particular November and December 07, was the best business in their
> history, My foundation guy is so busy he can't return phone calls and
> my painter is running three extra crews all last year ... Granted,
> it's regional, but Jeeezus, these are folks in the construction
> business!
>
> "Somebody" is stirring shit instead of telling the truth! If this is
> election year "agendizing", as it appears to be, then this country is
> getting hurt by selfish bastards hungering for power.

Yawwnnnnm nuttin' new there! Unfortunate, stupid, unacceptable, but ...
nuttin new.

--
Please reply to the newsgroup so everyone
benefits. E-mails may not be responded to.

"dpb" wrote

> Well, one is last quarter and the other is forecast for next quarter,

Sucks, effecting an entire economy based on "forecasts" instead of
"performance", but what the hell do I know.

I do know, however, that I'm tired of being treated/feeling like a puppet on
string.


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/14/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 08:18:04 -0600, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
-snip-
>The malls in Houston were simply getting too damn much trouble to go to.
>You could easily spend 20 to 30 minutes by simply parking, walking into the
>mall and back out on a busy day. You get to park and walk straight into a
>strip center shopping center, and you know exactly where to park.
>

I was wondering what the attraction of strip centers was. Now I know.
It's too damn much trouble for us now a days to have to walk much.
Much better to park, walk in, do our business, walk out, move the car
30', walk into the next store, repeat, (lather and rinse).

Depends on the kind of shopping, but malls have the advantage of being
less spread out (stores on both sides of a walkway) and enclosed (out
of weather).

Some places obviously don't lend themselves to mall-type shopping
(BORGs come to mind) and there's also a difference in the way men (vs
women shop. Most stores in a mall aren't the kind you'd just dash in,
say, grab a box of screws for your current project, and get out.

But, now I see - it's the walking!

In the DC area, we have several large malls scattered about and the
only time I've ever spent anything close to 20-30 minutes looking for
a parking place is near Christmas. Even then, I'll just settle for
one a bit farther and, <gasp> walk.

Not meant as a personal criticism, since you've really enlightened me.

Renata

"Renata" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

Snip
>
> In the DC area, we have several large malls scattered about and the
> only time I've ever spent anything close to 20-30 minutes looking for
> a parking place is near Christmas. Even then, I'll just settle for
> one a bit farther and, <gasp> walk.
>
> Not meant as a personal criticism, since you've really enlightened me.
>
> Renata


Well I certainly get my walking in, weather permitting. Either way I had
to go to the mall with my wife this past Christmas. The parking lot was so
packed that we were literally 1/2 mile from the store that we wanted to go
to. She was having a new pair of glasses made and lunch time was getting
close. While waiting for the glasses to be made we decided to go for lunch
but were afraid to loose our parking spot. The parking spot was not a
particularly good one, but it was a parking spot. We walked another 1/2
mile to the restaurant and back to the store and back through the strip
centers between vehicle and the store in the mall. A GPS would have been
handy.

Another problem with mall shopping in Houston is the traffic near the mall.
Surrounding ad including the mall are probably 400-500 retail
establishments.

On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 16:02:23 GMT, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Renata" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>Snip
>>
>> In the DC area, we have several large malls scattered about and the
>> only time I've ever spent anything close to 20-30 minutes looking for
>> a parking place is near Christmas. Even then, I'll just settle for
>> one a bit farther and, <gasp> walk.
>>
>> Not meant as a personal criticism, since you've really enlightened me.
>>
>> Renata
>
>
>Well I certainly get my walking in, weather permitting. Either way I had
>to go to the mall with my wife this past Christmas. The parking lot was so
>packed that we were literally 1/2 mile from the store that we wanted to go
>to. She was having a new pair of glasses made and lunch time was getting
>close. While waiting for the glasses to be made we decided to go for lunch
>but were afraid to loose our parking spot. The parking spot was not a
>particularly good one, but it was a parking spot. We walked another 1/2
>mile to the restaurant and back to the store and back through the strip
>centers between vehicle and the store in the mall. A GPS would have been
>handy.
>
>Another problem with mall shopping in Houston is the traffic near the mall.
>Surrounding ad including the mall are probably 400-500 retail
>establishments.
>

Well, they do say everything's bigger in Texas. ;-)

Renata

"jo4hn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> The ones that come to mind are a couple of restaurants. I was really
>>> surprised when the Home Town Buffet went under--they were always
>>> packed.
>>
>> If they were always packed, and actually went out of business it was
>> because of piss poor management.
>> Never has an "always packed" establishment gone out of business due to a
>> lack of business.
>> Perhaps they were not always packed.
>>
> [snip]
> Nobody goes there anymore; it's too crowded. (attrb Y. Berra) :-)

Yeah! LOL.. And if the story of the closing had been reported by the local
news, that is probably the reason that they would have given. ;~)

"BDBConstruction" wrote in message

> I personally feel bad for all the people who bought/built high because
> if that want/have to they are going to wind up selling low. Just like
> the mortage crisis though, personal responsibility is where its at.

Many excellent points.


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/14/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> F%$k a bunch of "analysts' ...... the same folks who drive up oil prices
> when someone spits on the street.
>

Trolling? If you haven't realized by now that "cuts" in programs don't mean
less money, that profits that fall below someone's fantasy are disappointing
or even threatening, and that a "record profit" for oil companies doesn't
mean they're getting any higher margin, then you're just plain dense.

On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 10:36:00 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Leon" wrote
>
>> God has guided us in the past and because we allowed watered down morals
>to
>> appease and not offend the undeserving it is a small wonder why we are in
>> the mess that we are in, our Government has cast God to the side. Have
>you
>> noticed that with every removal of God from our schools and government
>> buildings the worse things get? We need his constant reminder of what is
>> right and wrong. Many have forgotten that one day he will return to
>> straighten this mess out and there will be no negotiating or politics
>> allowed.
>
>It has been argued since Adam Smith that Capitalism must have a moral base
>to counteract its inherent greed.
>
>I've been convinced for years that, when the distinction between morality
>and legality is blurred, as is done in our law schools, and then allowing
>your "law makers" to be predominately products of that system, is the
>mechanism that will be the root of our downfall.


A timely observation, for if you look to the east across the big
river, you will see a state where the largest and most wealthy, if not
most "respected" law firms have the top tier of their members recently
under federal indictment for bribing judges. And, as might be
expected, like rats from a sinking ship they are turning on each other
cutting cooperation deals to get out from under.

These firms are hugh political contributors to primarily the
democratic party, up to the national level. So they buy rulings and
influence, both directly and indirectly.

This, in a state, that has through tort reform, just managed to shut
down the top venue county in the nation, which also happens to be the
poorest county in the nation. It is one of the wonders of the world
how dirt poor delta jurors could be titling new luxury cars not long
after a class action ruling for the plantiff.

There is no doubt in my mind that our judicial system has placed the
fox in charge of the chicken coop.

Frank

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 10:18:21 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:

>1/22/08: "We're thrilled to report our best quarter ever, with the highest
>revenue and earnings in Apple's history," said Steve Jobs in a statement.
>"We have an incredibly strong new product pipeline for 2008, starting with
>MacBook Air, Mac Pro and iTunes Movie Rentals in the first two weeks." Apple
>easily beat its own guidance from last quarter-$9.2 billion in revenue and
>$1.42 EPS.<snip>
>
>1/23/08: NEW YORK (Reuters) - Stocks slid for a sixth day on Wednesday as
>disappointing profit forecasts from Apple Inc, <snip>
>
>Who said there are no "doom and gloom" reportage going on?
>
>I did an informal poll this past week from my suppliers and subs. They ALL
>stated without exception that the last quarter, in particular November and
>December 07, was the best business in their history, My foundation guy is so
>busy he can't return phone calls and my painter is running three extra crews
>all last year ... Granted, it's regional, but Jeeezus, these are folks in
>the construction business!
>
>"Somebody" is stirring shit instead of telling the truth! If this is
>election year "agendizing", as it appears to be, then this country is
>getting hurt by selfish bastards hungering for power.

Your timely rant has been successful. As I type, they have backed the
trucks up to the dock and are loading up on undervalued stocks.
Thanks!

Frank

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 20:24:41 -0700, Mark & Juanita
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
> I'm going to be much less kind than others and not give the benefit of the
>doubt to journalists just trying to feed a 24 hour news cycle. They could
>get the same reaction on the business front by reporting the good news of
>the economy (record low unemployment rates, near full employment, etc) or
>just for a change reporting the facts instead of speculation and opinion.
-snip-

First, in other economic news, just learned that Hershey Chocolate is
moving to Mexico! [not totally verified]

-

those tax cuts that were gonna "trickle down" into jobs, well, let's
take a look at the jobs created in the last 7 years. And a few other
things...
-R

~90% of the jobs have been low paying, service sector jobs.

3.7 million jobs have been created during W's reign (barely keeping up
w/population growth) vs
13.7 million during the previous administration.

Median income down $2000/worker between 2001-2005.

"Under Clinton, the Dow Jones went up 324 percent. Wall-to-wall, after
the dot.com bubble burst, it more than tripled in value.

Bush arrived in 2001. Since then the Dow Jones is up just 10 percent.
Adjusted for inflation, that's absolutely flat. (It was briefly up 23
percent. It is now below the 10 percent mark, and tumbling down as
this is written). ...

If jobs have not increased, salaries have gone down, and the value of
business has not risen, where is that 35 percent growth in the
economy?
There is a number called the M3 money supply.
...
The entire growth of the economy under Bushenomics is accounted for by
growth in the money supply.
The administration did not directly inflate the economy by 35 percent.
They pumped it by the size of the deficit.

...

The administration, very proudly, grew the economy (or at least the
amount of money in circulation), without inflation. Which actually is
a pretty good trick.
In part, they were able to do so precisely because the policy was a
failure.
If it had created business growth -- actual business, not just
financial business -- that would have created jobs. Then there would
have been inflationary pressure. Especially if they were good, high
paying jobs. If salaries for ordinary people go up, even a little, the
total is a big sum because there are so many of us.
But due to free trade, outsourcing, bad economic policy, policies
aimed at keeping wages down, and relentless union busting, good jobs
were lost, to be replaced with low-wage jobs, when they were replaced
at all. The proof is in that median income figure (down $2,000 per
worker).
Due to free trade and outsourcing, consumer goods mostly went down
too. The exception being in favored industries like pharmaceuticals,
insurance and oil.
Finally, and this the key to the next step in the process, the Fed
kept interest rates down.
Low interest rates mean that it's cheap to borrow.
The administration largely believes in supply-side economics
(otherwise known as "trickle down," or "piss on the people."); if you
increase the supply of something, consumers will appear to buy it.
The actual results are a perverse triumph of the idea.
The supply of money was increased. The price of money was kept
artificially low.
Think of borrowing as buying money. It is.
People (and businesses and corporations) did rush forward to buy it.
Once they had it, what was there to do with it? There was no new
trend, no dot.coms, no high techs, no bio techs, no nothing.
So they went out and sold money. That is, they made loans.
There are two big retail loan areas, credit cards and housing loans.
Both were pushed very aggressively. With cheap, cheap money available
to finance home buying, that market heated up. At the same time,
commercial interests started aggressively buying up loans, packaging
them together, and reselling them as financial instruments. That
created more desire to make more loans (sell money). Financial
institutions bought more money (borrowed), in order to sell it at a
profit (make loans). Since the loans were quickly resold -- and profit
taken off the top -- the quality of the loans didn't matter to the
people who made them. The housing market -- or rather the loans that
fueled it -- grew into a bubble.
The subprime crisis, the housing bubble, whatever you want to call it,
is not the problem.
It's a symptom of pumping in money with no place to go.
Other symptoms are no job growth, no business growth, no stock market
growth, falling median incomes, disappearing pensions and health
plans, and the fall of the dollar.
When Bush came into office, a Euro cost 95 cents. Now it costs a
$1.50. The Canadian dollar (the Loony) was 70 cents. Now it costs a
dollar. Most mainstream economists and pundits will opine that a low
dollar is good for American industry, because it will help us sell our
goods. That's only true if we're producing things that no one else is
-- or producing them better or cheaper -- and we're not.
Also, many foreign exchange rates are being kept artificially low
against the dollar. Some, like many of the oil countries, are pegged
to the dollar. They're making up for it by raising the price of oil
(currently traded in dollars). Others, like the Asian manufacturing
countries, are keeping their currency down to retain their edge in
selling here, thereby canceling whatever advantage we're supposed to
get from declining currency.
One way to think of what the administration has done, is as a
leveraged buyout. That's when someone buys a company, using the
company itself as the collateral for the loan used to purchase it,
usually at very high interest, then pays off the interest by cutting
the work force and salaries, selling outsets and even breaking up the
company.
It's good for the guy who makes the deal, skims the cream off the top
and gets rich. (The company that Mitt Romney got rich working for
specialized in doing that.) It's good for the lenders, who get a good
return (if the buyer is able to squeeze enough money out of his
purchase), but it's bad for the work force, bad for the company, and,
if no one comes along to replace it, bad for the business as a whole.
We've experienced a leveraged buyout of the national economy.
..."

quoted from an article by B. Weiner
Copyright 2008 by Bernard Weiner.

"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> The ones that come to mind are a couple of restaurants. I was really
> surprised when the Home Town Buffet went under--they were always
> packed.

If they were always packed, and actually went out of business it was because
of piss poor management.
Never has an "always packed" establishment gone out of business due to a
lack of business.
Perhaps they were not always packed.


Pizza place in the mall that had been there for a decade is
> another one. Walking through the mall I see more unoccupied
> storefronts than usual.

Malls in general started failing in Houston many years ago, 10 or more
years IIRC. Not because of the lack of business more because of the
competition of the very popular strip centers that tend to be almost as
large as the typical 75- 150 store malls.
The malls in Houston were simply getting too damn much trouble to go to.
You could easily spend 20 to 30 minutes by simply parking, walking into the
mall and back out on a busy day. You get to park and walk straight into a
strip center shopping center, and you know exactly where to park.

"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>
>> RE: Subject
>>
>> How many BILLIONS of $ do the banking/money industries have to write
>> off to get your attention?
>>
>
> How many billions out of what number of trillions in good debt that is
> not
> being written off? Just tossing out the word "billions" doesn't define
> the
> magnitude of the problem, it's the percentage of bad to good loans that
> matters.


I heard on a talk show that was being hosted by a lending company that the
percentage of bad loans to good loans concerning this current "mortgage
crisis" is 1 in 200 and or 1/2%.

The media and its uneducated, facts be damned attitude is what will drag
this country into a recession.
If someone piss's in your Cheerio's long enough you will be very unhappy.

If you don't believe the media is the problem, just read and listen to what
they have to say. Be honest with your answers. Is it unbiased, is it
accurate, do they ever follow up on unbelievable stories, do they use a lot
of adjectives to make the story sound more exciting? If you can answer yes
to any of the questions, the news you are hearing or reading is probably not
the total truth. Truth is does not generate money like the "Entertaining"
news.

"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Too bad you are all the way in Houston, I wouldn't mind spending some
> evenings on the porch yakking with ya'


Well if you are ever down this way, by all means, look me up. I'd enjoy
that also.

"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> 1/22/08: "We're thrilled to report our best quarter ever, with the
> highest
> revenue and earnings in Apple's history," said Steve Jobs in a statement.
> "We have an incredibly strong new product pipeline for 2008, starting with
> MacBook Air, Mac Pro and iTunes Movie Rentals in the first two weeks."
> Apple
> easily beat its own guidance from last quarter-$9.2 billion in revenue and
> $1.42 EPS.<snip>
>
> 1/23/08: NEW YORK (Reuters) - Stocks slid for a sixth day on Wednesday as
> disappointing profit forecasts from Apple Inc, <snip>

Well, LOL you have to be able to recognize the spin that the people trying
to control the country are casting out there. I was talking with my money
manager this morning and we both, for the most part, feel the bad economy is
reported in the news but every where we "look" the economy is doing just
fine.
You can blame the media for the housing slump/and bad credit forclosures. I
have heard that the people actually affected is 1/2 % of those concerned.
It will certainly be much worse than that once the wreckless media gets
finished with the story.


> Who said there are no "doom and gloom" reportage going on?

The left side.


>
> I did an informal poll this past week from my suppliers and subs. They ALL
> stated without exception that the last quarter, in particular November and
> December 07, was the best business in their history, My foundation guy is
> so
> busy he can't return phone calls and my painter is running three extra
> crews
> all last year ... Granted, it's regional, but Jeeezus, these are folks in
> the construction business!

I know that I have been busy and have 3 jobs just waiting for final plan
adjustments to go.


> "Somebody" is stirring shit instead of telling the truth! If this is
> election year "agendizing", as it appears to be, then this country is
> getting hurt by selfish bastards hungering for power.

As I have mentioned about the environamentalists and the fuel burned vs.
polution by British Airways you have to verify every damn thing you read
or hear.

The news and reports are for entertainment these days.


And if you think that is odd, MSNBC had head lined Health Ledger's Death at
28. In smaller print, down the page, DOW plunges over 400 points and fed
drops interest rates 3/4%.

Swingman wrote:
> "dpb" wrote
>
>> Well, one is last quarter and the other is forecast for next quarter,
>
> Sucks, effecting an entire economy based on "forecasts" instead of
> "performance", but what the hell do I know.
>
> I do know, however, that I'm tired of being treated/feeling like a puppet on
> string.
>
>
Interesting, isn't it - some folks expect markets and climate to be
static, but demand change in politics.