Makita drill on Amazon

On 02 Jun 2011 04:21:08 GMT, Puckdropper
<puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:

>Larry Jaques <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>>
>> If you don't need the really gutsy batteries (the 3.0Ah LXTs), that's
>> probably not a bad deal. If you do, go with this Makita combo:
>> http://goo.gl/2WPVG (crap, I paid that much for my kit w/o the drill,
>> damnit)
>>
>
>I think that's the kit (LXT211) HD had next to the LCT200W. It's $9 more
>at HD than Amazon, but the advantage is of course you can have it in 2
>hours rather than 2 days.
>
>I felt that the bigger batteries knocked the balance off to the battery
>side, so the tool didn't feel as good as the one with the 1.5 Ah
>batteries.
>
>It does depend on what you're doing, but if you've got 3 1.5 Ah batteries
>you can keep one charging while still using both drill and impact. The
>batteries are ready to go in as little as 20 minutes (but I like to leave
>them on until the fan on the charger shuts off, about an hour or so.)
>
>Any of the Makita sets mentioned here are probably going to be good
>choices. It just depends on what you like and what you need.

When I switched to get a lighter tool with longer battery life (my
Bosch Impactor is a 14.4v) I found it less than a pound lighter. A
test with the two side by side, I found them very close in
performance. Battery life was only slightly better on the lithiums,
but they charge twice as quickly, 15 mins vs 30 mins. I love them
both.

FS: Bosch 14.4v Impactor, 2 batteries, charger, hard case, $150
delivered. 3 years use, still going strong. (new: $420 retail)

--
Remember, in an emergency, dial 1911.

On Jun 1, 9:48=A0am, Just Wondering <[email protected]> wrote:
> For those who are interested in a good deal on a cordless drill:
>
> For today only Amazon has Makita LXFD01CW 18-Volt Compact Lithium-Ion
> Cordless 1/2-Inch Driver-Drill Kit, list $378, on sale for $149.99, free
> shipping.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0046RE72K/ref=3Dxs_gb_A22MH986STK1CD?_encodin..=
.

Yeah, I saw that... $189 at Toolbarn, $199 at Home Depot, not such a
deal once you add in shipping. It is always a joke that they show SRP
at $300+.

On Wed, 01 Jun 2011 13:02:35 -0600, Just Wondering <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 6/1/2011 12:27 PM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 6/1/2011 11:48 AM, Just Wondering wrote:
>>> For those who are interested in a good deal on a cordless drill:
>>>
>>> For today only Amazon has Makita LXFD01CW 18-Volt Compact Lithium-Ion
>>> Cordless 1/2-Inch Driver-Drill Kit, list $378, on sale for $149.99, free
>>> shipping.
>>
>> Unless I'm sorely mistaken, that is the lesser, DIY version of Makita.
>>
>> If you're really serious about your drills and use them in your work,
>> check out these before you leap:
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Makita-LXT211-18-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Cordless/dp/B001DN1T6M/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1306952729&sr=1-1
>>
>You're absolutely right, of course. This NG has readers who are
>hobbiests (like myself) as well as those who rely on their tools to put
>food on their tables and a roof over their heads. The latter can
>usually afford to pay the higher price for the higher quality item,
>while the former benefit from the best price on a good tool that's a
>notch down from heavy-duty professional stuff.

OTOH, the professional has to justify expenses with income. Hobbiests don't
have to justify anything, well, other than to their SWMBO.

Sears is selling the C3 Drill and trim Saw combo for $79.99 with
compact lithium C3 battery and multi-charger. #9 25776

I have C3 tools and bought it to upgrade my charger and battery. I was
able to sell the last package I bought (thanks to Craiagslist) -
replacing the battery ad charger with my old ones and got back enough
to bring my net cost of the new C3 battery and new Multi-charger down
to about 40 dollars.

Considering the list on the Lithium Battery is $79.99 and the charge
has to be worth twenty-nine or more, I came out AOK.

On Jun 3, 2:31=A0pm, FrozenNorth <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On 6/03/11 2:07 PM, Robatoy wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 3, 1:17 pm, Swingman<[email protected]> =A0wrote:
> >> On 6/3/2011 10:06 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>
> >>> I love a good tool as much as the next guy, but when it comes to
> >>> drills, the cordless varieties are pretty good for under $ 100.00, if
> >>> I need to do anything serious, like driving 30 Tapcons, I will run an
> >>> extension and uncork my Magnum HoleShooter Milwaukee.
>
> >> That comes from you having the wisdom/experience to chose the correct
> >> tool for the job. :)
>
> > Well, errmm, yes.<G> =A0But how many hobbyists tackle heavy-duty
> > projects with hobbyists tools?
> > "Well, I got this 3.1 volt $19.00 Flack& =A0Pecker drill/concrete mixer
> > combo and whilst trying to build a 2000 sq ft deck out of 'free'
> > railroad ties...the fukkin thing went up and broke on me!
> > Then...it is likely for me to say "you need a better tool!"
> > The reply is then likely to be: "you are a tool snob!!!"
>
> > ...and so it goes....
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > I think I will have another cold drink.
>
> Flack & Pecker, hahahaha.
> SWMBO always makes a bit of a racket when I buy a new tool, it was funny
> last weekend, she wanted to drill some holes in the bottom of some
> rubbermaid buckets she uses for gardening waste/weeds etc so the water
> will drain out. =A0I said sure, grabed my 14.4V Dewalt cordless, popped a
> one inch hole saw onto it, and handed it to her.
>
> She came back a bit later, and said it was awesome. =A0I know it isn't th=
e
> best thing out there, but it will hold its own against a lot of them.
>

For short few years, Bosch had a green line of tools, basically copies
of the blue bodied ones.
BUT..... The belt sander had bushings on the motor shaft in the green
line and proper ball bearings in the blue incarnation.
The drills had white plastic gears, vs the steel ones in the blue
line. Thee are a ton of examples like that.
I have two non-restricted air blowers. They are identical in all
aspects. One I bought 20+ years ago for $ 30.00, the second was $7.00.
One has a Blue Point logo (From The Snap-On truck) the other I bought
at Canadian Tire.

On 6/1/2011 12:27 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 6/1/2011 11:48 AM, Just Wondering wrote:
>> For those who are interested in a good deal on a cordless drill:
>>
>> For today only Amazon has Makita LXFD01CW 18-Volt Compact Lithium-Ion
>> Cordless 1/2-Inch Driver-Drill Kit, list $378, on sale for $149.99, free
>> shipping.
>
> Unless I'm sorely mistaken, that is the lesser, DIY version of Makita.
>
> If you're really serious about your drills and use them in your work,
> check out these before you leap:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Makita-LXT211-18-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Cordless/dp/B001DN1T6M/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1306952729&sr=1-1
>
You're absolutely right, of course. This NG has readers who are
hobbiests (like myself) as well as those who rely on their tools to put
food on their tables and a roof over their heads. The latter can
usually afford to pay the higher price for the higher quality item,
while the former benefit from the best price on a good tool that's a
notch down from heavy-duty professional stuff.

"Just Wondering" <[email protected]> wrote
> You're absolutely right, of course. This NG has readers who are hobbiests
> (like myself) as well as those who rely on their tools to put food on
> their tables and a roof over their heads. The latter can usually afford
> to pay the higher price for the higher quality item, while the former
> benefit from the best price on a good tool that's a notch down from
> heavy-duty professional stuff.
>
It isn't always a matter of what they can afford. It is a matter of what
the job requires. Buying tools not up to the job can cost a lot in terms of
time, safety and multiple purchases of an inadequate tool.

I put my money where it is best used. Whether that is a cheapie or a big,
expensive professional model (Or something in between.) . Although I
reserve the right to lust after big, professional tools I can not afford or
justify buying.

Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> AND if you find that this grade suites you, for $70 more you can get
> the above PLUS an impact driver, flash light, and an extra battery.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Makita-LCT300W-18-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Cordless/dp/B0
> 00V2BRM2/ref=sr_1_3?s=power-hand-tools&ie=UTF8&qid=1306960694&sr=1-3

If you want it right this minute, the LCT200W (2 tools, no flashlight) is
available at Home Depot for $214.

The LCT300W (3 tools) above is a great kit, and the flashlight is worth the
extra $5.

Puckdropper

Larry Jaques <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> If you don't need the really gutsy batteries (the 3.0Ah LXTs), that's
> probably not a bad deal. If you do, go with this Makita combo:
> http://goo.gl/2WPVG (crap, I paid that much for my kit w/o the drill,
> damnit)
>

I think that's the kit (LXT211) HD had next to the LCT200W. It's $9 more
at HD than Amazon, but the advantage is of course you can have it in 2
hours rather than 2 days.

I felt that the bigger batteries knocked the balance off to the battery
side, so the tool didn't feel as good as the one with the 1.5 Ah
batteries.

It does depend on what you're doing, but if you've got 3 1.5 Ah batteries
you can keep one charging while still using both drill and impact. The
batteries are ready to go in as little as 20 minutes (but I like to leave
them on until the fan on the charger shuts off, about an hour or so.)

Any of the Makita sets mentioned here are probably going to be good
choices. It just depends on what you like and what you need.

Puckdropper

Han <[email protected]> wrote in news:Xns9EF9980303715ikkezelf@
207.246.207.32:

>
> Sometimes you can get quite a bit out of a cheap tool.
>
*snip*

Sometimes all you need is the cheap tool. I've turned hundreds of nuts
with the cheap wrenches from Menards (they're cheap enough to buy a dozen
sets or so and put them in dedicated places) and measured thousands of
voltages with the HF multimeter (cheap enough to dedicate as well).

For anything with a motor, buying a really good one and only crying once
makes a lot of sense. (Anyone else hate loud motors?)

Puckdropper

On Jun 1, 3:02=A0pm, Just Wondering <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 6/1/2011 12:27 PM, Swingman wrote:> On 6/1/2011 11:48 AM, Just Wonderi=
ng wrote:
>
> >> For those who are interested in a good deal on a cordless drill:
>
> >> For today only Amazon has Makita LXFD01CW 18-Volt Compact Lithium-Ion
> >> Cordless 1/2-Inch Driver-Drill Kit, list $378, on sale for $149.99, fr=
ee
> >> shipping.
>
> > Unless I'm sorely mistaken, that is the lesser, DIY version of Makita.
>
> > If you're really serious about your drills and use them in your work,
> > check out these before you leap:
>
> >http://www.amazon.com/Makita-LXT211-18-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Cordless/dp/B...
>
> You're absolutely right, of course. =A0This NG has readers who are
> hobbiests (like myself) as well as those who rely on their tools to put
> food on their tables and a roof over their heads. =A0The latter can
> usually afford to pay the higher price for the higher quality item,
> while the former benefit from the best price on a good tool that's a
> notch down from heavy-duty professional stuff.

There's not a big difference in the specs between the two flavors,
other than the higher end set's driver drill also is a hammer drill,
and its impact driver has a bit more torque. Other than that it's
mainly a difference in battery size and run time. You wouldn't go
wrong choosing either model and you could upgrade the batteries at a
later date (though it makes more sense to buy them initially).

R

On 03 Jun 2011 18:56:44 GMT, Han <[email protected]> wrote:

>Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:aea5bc87-d193-4c52-b185-52491ff532c1@v10g2000yqn.googlegroups.com:
>
>> On Jun 3, 1:17 pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> On 6/3/2011 10:06 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>
>>> > I love a good tool as much as the next guy, but when it comes to
>>> > drills, the cordless varieties are pretty good for under $ 100.00,
>>> > if I need to do anything serious, like driving 30 Tapcons, I will
>>> > run an extension and uncork my Magnum HoleShooter Milwaukee.
>>>
>>> That comes from you having the wisdom/experience to chose the correct
>>> tool for the job. :)
>>>
>>
>> Well, errmm, yes. <G> But how many hobbyists tackle heavy-duty
>> projects with hobbyists tools?
>> "Well, I got this 3.1 volt $19.00 Flack & Pecker drill/concrete mixer
>> combo and whilst trying to build a 2000 sq ft deck out of 'free'
>> railroad ties...the fukkin thing went up and broke on me!
>> Then...it is likely for me to say "you need a better tool!"
>> The reply is then likely to be: "you are a tool snob!!!"
>>
>> ...and so it goes....
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> I think I will have another cold drink.
>
>Sometimes you can get quite a bit out of a cheap tool.
>
>Some 30 years ago, in our first home, we needed more sun in the yard
>(50x100ft). So I cut down a pine tree (trunk about 10-11" in diameter),
>partly while standing on the edge of the roof since the tree missed
>piercing the corner of the roof by an inch or two, and I didn't want the
>tree to take out the roof. After that the cherry tree had its turn.
>Near the ground must have been at least 18" in diameter. I still
>remember cutting off the last big limb, and thinking - this is not
>right, the ladder is standing to the left of both where I am cutting and
>the trunk. That was rectified successfully, thank whoever.
>Unfortunately, the $99.99 14" or so electric chainsaw died before I got
>the trunk down. Had to find someone with a real chainsaw.

I got a lot of life out of my trusty Remington 14" chainsaw. And when
it died at age 20+ this year, I got a $40 HF 14" chainsaw to replace
it. It has already taken down two thick old apple trees and I'm ready
to limb a maple and a sweetgum shortly.

The old Rem died of plastic failure. The bar swings up from the proper
position, but the saw still runs like a champ. Scary, wot?

--
Remember, in an emergency, dial 1911.

On Jun 1, 10:33=A0am, "SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jun 1, 9:48=A0am, Just Wondering <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > For those who are interested in a good deal on a cordless drill:
>
> > For today only Amazon has Makita LXFD01CW 18-Volt Compact Lithium-Ion
> > Cordless 1/2-Inch Driver-Drill Kit, list $378, on sale for $149.99, fre=
e
> > shipping.
>
> >http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0046RE72K/ref=3Dxs_gb_A22MH986STK1CD?_encodin.=
..
>
> Yeah, I saw that... $189 at Toolbarn, $199 at Home Depot, not such a
> deal once you add in shipping. It is always a joke that they show SRP
> at $300+.

OK, I can be an idiot... I thought it was $179 and didn't see free
shipping. Tail between legs.

On 6/1/2011 11:48 AM, Just Wondering wrote:
> For those who are interested in a good deal on a cordless drill:
>
> For today only Amazon has Makita LXFD01CW 18-Volt Compact Lithium-Ion
> Cordless 1/2-Inch Driver-Drill Kit, list $378, on sale for $149.99, free
> shipping.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0046RE72K/ref=xs_gb_A22MH986STK1CD?_encoding=UTF8&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=441937901&pf_rd_s=right-1&pf_rd_t=701&pf_rd_i=20&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1YBT04QFC6RJ2WXF8C1A
>


AND if you find that this grade suites you, for $70 more you can get the
above PLUS an impact driver, flash light, and an extra battery.

http://www.amazon.com/Makita-LCT300W-18-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Cordless/dp/B000V2BRM2/ref=sr_1_3?s=power-hand-tools&ie=UTF8&qid=1306960694&sr=1-3

Just Wondering wrote the following:
> On 6/1/2011 12:27 PM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 6/1/2011 11:48 AM, Just Wondering wrote:
>>> For those who are interested in a good deal on a cordless drill:
>>>
>>> For today only Amazon has Makita LXFD01CW 18-Volt Compact Lithium-Ion
>>> Cordless 1/2-Inch Driver-Drill Kit, list $378, on sale for $149.99,
>>> free
>>> shipping.
>>
>> Unless I'm sorely mistaken, that is the lesser, DIY version of Makita.
>>
>> If you're really serious about your drills and use them in your work,
>> check out these before you leap:
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Makita-LXT211-18-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Cordless/dp/B001DN1T6M/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1306952729&sr=1-1
>>
>>
> You're absolutely right, of course. This NG has readers who are
> hobbiests (like myself) as well as those who rely on their tools to
> put food on their tables and a roof over their heads. The latter can
> usually afford to pay the higher price for the higher quality item,
> while the former benefit from the best price on a good tool that's a
> notch down from heavy-duty professional stuff.

Then there are two other things that have to be considered.
1. Frequency of use.
The hobbyist, or homeowner, may use the tool for one job, and then not
use it again for months or even years.
The professional may use it every day.
2. The professional can claim the tool as a business expense The
homeowner can't.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On 6/1/2011 2:02 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
> On 6/1/2011 12:27 PM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 6/1/2011 11:48 AM, Just Wondering wrote:
>>> For those who are interested in a good deal on a cordless drill:
>>>
>>> For today only Amazon has Makita LXFD01CW 18-Volt Compact Lithium-Ion
>>> Cordless 1/2-Inch Driver-Drill Kit, list $378, on sale for $149.99, free
>>> shipping.
>>
>> Unless I'm sorely mistaken, that is the lesser, DIY version of Makita.
>>
>> If you're really serious about your drills and use them in your work,
>> check out these before you leap:
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Makita-LXT211-18-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Cordless/dp/B001DN1T6M/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1306952729&sr=1-1
>>
>>
> You're absolutely right, of course. This NG has readers who are
> hobbiests (like myself) as well as those who rely on their tools to put
> food on their tables and a roof over their heads. The latter can usually
> afford to pay the higher price for the higher quality item, while the
> former benefit from the best price on a good tool that's a notch down
> from heavy-duty professional stuff.

... and many don't even know there is a difference. Thus my post.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 6/2/2011 8:23 PM, [email protected] wrote:

> OTOH, the professional has to justify expenses with income. Hobbiests don't
> have to justify anything, well, other than to their SWMBO.

What pays when buying any tool, and regardless of user status, is to
question what was sacrificed, with regard to engineering and component
quality, to justify the reduction in MSRP for very similar models of the
same brand.

A more robust tool for $100 more and that will last just three years
longer will put you ahead of the game at a reasonable yearly cost,
versus replacing a cheaper tool earlier ... whether you're a hobbyist or
professional ... taking exception to that fact, as the OP did, is
nothing more than nitpicking/missing the point, an apparent family trait.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 6/4/2011 3:07 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Jun 2011 14:22:18 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 6/4/2011 2:04 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Fri, 03 Jun 2011 07:23:31 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>> What pays when buying any tool, and regardless of user status, is to
>>>> question what was sacrificed, with regard to engineering and component
>>>> quality, to justify the reduction in MSRP for very similar models of the
>>>> same brand.

>> Go back and read what you responded to ...
>
> I read it. You said "regardless of user status", which is false, IMO.

Tsk, tsk ... What on earth could possibly be "false" about ANY user
asking a prudent, sensible question regarding a product they are
contemplating purchasing, "regardless of user status"?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

willshak <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Then there are two other things that have to be considered.
> 1. Frequency of use.
> The hobbyist, or homeowner, may use the tool for one job, and then not
> use it again for months or even years.
> The professional may use it every day.
> 2. The professional can claim the tool as a business expense The
> homeowner can't.
>

I'm a hobbyist. I could afford to buy a Festool Ro90. Now I have 2 ROSs
you can have if you come and pick them up. Just go down the thruway, take
287 south, then 208 south. More directions upon reply, if necessary.
<grin>.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in
news:aea5bc87-d193-4c52-b185-52491ff532c1@v10g2000yqn.googlegroups.com:

> On Jun 3, 1:17 pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 6/3/2011 10:06 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>>
>
>>
>> > I love a good tool as much as the next guy, but when it comes to
>> > drills, the cordless varieties are pretty good for under $ 100.00,
>> > if I need to do anything serious, like driving 30 Tapcons, I will
>> > run an extension and uncork my Magnum HoleShooter Milwaukee.
>>
>> That comes from you having the wisdom/experience to chose the correct
>> tool for the job. :)
>>
>
> Well, errmm, yes. <G> But how many hobbyists tackle heavy-duty
> projects with hobbyists tools?
> "Well, I got this 3.1 volt $19.00 Flack & Pecker drill/concrete mixer
> combo and whilst trying to build a 2000 sq ft deck out of 'free'
> railroad ties...the fukkin thing went up and broke on me!
> Then...it is likely for me to say "you need a better tool!"
> The reply is then likely to be: "you are a tool snob!!!"
>
> ...and so it goes....
> .
> .
> .
> I think I will have another cold drink.

Sometimes you can get quite a bit out of a cheap tool.

Some 30 years ago, in our first home, we needed more sun in the yard
(50x100ft). So I cut down a pine tree (trunk about 10-11" in diameter),
partly while standing on the edge of the roof since the tree missed
piercing the corner of the roof by an inch or two, and I didn't want the
tree to take out the roof. After that the cherry tree had its turn.
Near the ground must have been at least 18" in diameter. I still
remember cutting off the last big limb, and thinking - this is not
right, the ladder is standing to the left of both where I am cutting and
the trunk. That was rectified successfully, thank whoever.
Unfortunately, the $99.99 14" or so electric chainsaw died before I got
the trunk down. Had to find someone with a real chainsaw.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 6/4/2011 11:20 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Jun 2011 18:41:36 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 6/4/2011 3:07 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Sat, 04 Jun 2011 14:22:18 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6/4/2011 2:04 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 03 Jun 2011 07:23:31 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> What pays when buying any tool, and regardless of user status, is to
>>>>>> question what was sacrificed, with regard to engineering and component
>>>>>> quality, to justify the reduction in MSRP for very similar models of the
>>>>>> same brand.
>>
>>>> Go back and read what you responded to ...
>>>
>>> I read it. You said "regardless of user status", which is false, IMO.
>>
>> Tsk, tsk ... What on earth could possibly be "false" about ANY user
>> asking a prudent, sensible question regarding a product they are
>> contemplating purchasing, "regardless of user status"?
>
> I'm sure you understand that there is a difference between what is "prudent"
> and what *is*. That's only part of what's "false". ;-)

You sound like a fucking politician. An admonition/advisory should not
be taken as fact.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Jun 3, 1:17=A0pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 6/3/2011 10:06 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>

>
> > I love a good tool as much as the next guy, but when it comes to
> > drills, the cordless varieties are pretty good for under $ 100.00, if
> > I need to do anything serious, like driving 30 Tapcons, I will run an
> > extension and uncork my Magnum HoleShooter Milwaukee.
>
> That comes from you having the wisdom/experience to chose the correct
> tool for the job. :)
>

Well, errmm, yes. <G> But how many hobbyists tackle heavy-duty
projects with hobbyists tools?
"Well, I got this 3.1 volt $19.00 Flack & Pecker drill/concrete mixer
combo and whilst trying to build a 2000 sq ft deck out of 'free'
railroad ties...the fukkin thing went up and broke on me!
Then...it is likely for me to say "you need a better tool!"
The reply is then likely to be: "you are a tool snob!!!"

...and so it goes....
.
.
.
I think I will have another cold drink.

On Fri, 03 Jun 2011 07:23:31 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 6/2/2011 8:23 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> OTOH, the professional has to justify expenses with income. Hobbiests don't
>> have to justify anything, well, other than to their SWMBO.
>
>What pays when buying any tool, and regardless of user status, is to
>question what was sacrificed, with regard to engineering and component
>quality, to justify the reduction in MSRP for very similar models of the
>same brand.

No, a hobbyist can just *want* a certain brand or model, with no justification
at all. It's a business decision for the professional, though "want" may
enter into the formula too. ;-)

>A more robust tool for $100 more and that will last just three years
>longer will put you ahead of the game at a reasonable yearly cost,
>versus replacing a cheaper tool earlier ... whether you're a hobbyist or
>professional ...

A hobbyist isn't likely to wear out either tool. Though there is an argument
to be made for batteries.

>taking exception to that fact, as the OP did, is
>nothing more than nitpicking/missing the point, an apparent family trait.

On Jun 5, 8:58=A0am, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 6/4/2011 11:21 PM, Robatoy wrote:
>
> =A0> For short few years, Bosch had a green line of tools, basically copi=
es
> =A0> of the blue bodied ones.
> =A0> BUT..... The belt sander had bushings on the motor shaft in the gree=
n
> =A0> line and proper ball bearings in the blue incarnation.
> =A0> The drills had white plastic gears, vs the steel ones in the blue
> =A0> line. Thee are a ton of examples like that.
> =A0> I have two non-restricted air blowers. They are identical in all
> =A0> aspects. One I bought 20+ years ago for $ 30.00, the second was $7.0=
0.
> =A0> One has a Blue Point logo (From The Snap-On truck) the other I bough=
t
> =A0> at Canadian Tire.
>
> My SIL from Yorkshire couldn't believe I was using Bosch tools. All the
> Bosch he'd ever seen in the UK at the time were green, and cheap POS'.
>

One interesting observation was that the 'green Bosch' in-line
beltsander reappeared many years later as a Ryobi.

On Fri, 3 Jun 2011 11:07:20 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Jun 3, 1:17 pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 6/3/2011 10:06 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>>
>
>>
>> > I love a good tool as much as the next guy, but when it comes to
>> > drills, the cordless varieties are pretty good for under $ 100.00, if
>> > I need to do anything serious, like driving 30 Tapcons, I will run an
>> > extension and uncork my Magnum HoleShooter Milwaukee.
>>
>> That comes from you having the wisdom/experience to chose the correct
>> tool for the job. :)
>>
>
>Well, errmm, yes. <G> But how many hobbyists tackle heavy-duty
>projects with hobbyists tools?

A: Almost every hobbyist who has ever tried a heavy-duty project.
Nature of the beast. That's how I've discovered which tools needed to
be heavy duty. If it burns out during a project, opt higher next time.
<snicker>


>"Well, I got this 3.1 volt $19.00 Flack & Pecker drill/concrete mixer
>combo and whilst trying to build a 2000 sq ft deck out of 'free'
>railroad ties...the fukkin thing went up and broke on me!
>Then...it is likely for me to say "you need a better tool!"
>The reply is then likely to be: "you are a tool snob!!!"
>
>...and so it goes....

He should have bought the Skil, not the B&D.


>I think I will have another cold drink.

Go forth and fester not again, sinner.

--
Remember, in an emergency, dial 1911.

On 6/4/2011 11:21 PM, Robatoy wrote:

> For short few years, Bosch had a green line of tools, basically copies
> of the blue bodied ones.
> BUT..... The belt sander had bushings on the motor shaft in the green
> line and proper ball bearings in the blue incarnation.
> The drills had white plastic gears, vs the steel ones in the blue
> line. Thee are a ton of examples like that.
> I have two non-restricted air blowers. They are identical in all
> aspects. One I bought 20+ years ago for $ 30.00, the second was $7.00.
> One has a Blue Point logo (From The Snap-On truck) the other I bought
> at Canadian Tire.

My SIL from Yorkshire couldn't believe I was using Bosch tools. All the
Bosch he'd ever seen in the UK at the time were green, and cheap POS'.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Jun 3, 8:23=A0am, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 6/2/2011 8:23 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > OTOH, the professional has to justify expenses with income. =A0Hobbiest=
s don't
> > have to justify anything, well, other than to their SWMBO.
>
> What pays when buying any tool, and regardless of user status, is to
> question what was sacrificed, with regard to engineering and component
> quality, to justify the reduction in MSRP for very similar models of the
> same brand.
>
> A more robust tool for $100 more and that will last just three years
> longer will put you ahead of the game at a reasonable yearly cost,
> versus replacing a cheaper tool earlier ... whether you're a hobbyist or
> professional ... taking exception to that fact, as the OP did, is
> nothing more than nitpicking/missing the point, an apparent family trait.
>
> --www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 4/15/2010
> KarlC@ (the obvious)

That whole 'hobbyist vs pro' argument varies a lot when the type of
tool is taken into consideration. A drill, impact driver is less
likely to be all that different as either the pro or hobbyist drill
will make a hole and drive a screw somehow, eventually....
The Big Diff shows up in say... a jig saw? A ROS? Even circular saws.
Oh, and beltsanders... BIG difference in beltsanders... the cheap shit
don't work, period.

I love a good tool as much as the next guy, but when it comes to
drills, the cordless varieties are pretty good for under $ 100.00, if
I need to do anything serious, like driving 30 Tapcons, I will run an
extension and uncork my Magnum HoleShooter Milwaukee. That cord simply
doesn't bother me. On the other end of the spectrum, I'm upsidedown
inside a cabinet installation: "Is the battery fresh? Does it have a
LED? Is it light? Is it powerful enough?".. my 12 volt Lion Bosch's (I
have an impact, small pistol-type and an angle driver) almost always
fit the bill.
In betwixt those extremes, I have a $99 Porter Cable 18V NiCd with two
batteries, two-speed, adjustable clutch and tons of balls. If the
thing breaks, or the batteries die...off to the trashbin.

Now having said all that.. if I had nothing..and start from scratch,
AND I could only have one, and it HAD to be cordless, I'd get one of
those Makita kits (The LXMMCVVVXTRVS??) or a Milwaukee kit (I like
those Milwaukee people a lot)... and I would get the best I could
afford.

Ultimately, the word 'longevity' doesn't exist in the cordless world.
Them batteries will always keep making decisions for you... One 14.4
volt NiCd for $ 89.00 for a 6-year-old drill vs $ 99.00 for a whole
Porter Cable 18 volt kit with TWO batteries.

On Fri, 03 Jun 2011 14:31:59 -0400, FrozenNorth
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On 6/03/11 2:07 PM, Robatoy wrote:
>> On Jun 3, 1:17 pm, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>> On 6/3/2011 10:06 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>
>>>> I love a good tool as much as the next guy, but when it comes to
>>>> drills, the cordless varieties are pretty good for under $ 100.00, if
>>>> I need to do anything serious, like driving 30 Tapcons, I will run an
>>>> extension and uncork my Magnum HoleShooter Milwaukee.
>>>
>>> That comes from you having the wisdom/experience to chose the correct
>>> tool for the job. :)
>>>
>>
>> Well, errmm, yes.<G> But how many hobbyists tackle heavy-duty
>> projects with hobbyists tools?
>> "Well, I got this 3.1 volt $19.00 Flack& Pecker drill/concrete mixer
>> combo and whilst trying to build a 2000 sq ft deck out of 'free'
>> railroad ties...the fukkin thing went up and broke on me!
>> Then...it is likely for me to say "you need a better tool!"
>> The reply is then likely to be: "you are a tool snob!!!"
>>
>> ...and so it goes....
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> I think I will have another cold drink.
>Flack & Pecker, hahahaha.

Q: What do you call a black prostitute with braces?
A: A Black and Decker Pecker Wrecker.


>SWMBO always makes a bit of a racket when I buy a new tool, it was funny
>last weekend, she wanted to drill some holes in the bottom of some
>rubbermaid buckets she uses for gardening waste/weeds etc so the water
>will drain out. I said sure, grabed my 14.4V Dewalt cordless, popped a
>one inch hole saw onto it, and handed it to her.
>
>She came back a bit later, and said it was awesome. I know it isn't the
>best thing out there, but it will hold its own against a lot of them.

I use a TiN coated 1/2" HF forstner in a Ryobi on my buckets. <shrug>

--
Remember, in an emergency, dial 1911.

On 6/03/11 2:07 PM, Robatoy wrote:
> On Jun 3, 1:17 pm, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 6/3/2011 10:06 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>>
>
>>
>>> I love a good tool as much as the next guy, but when it comes to
>>> drills, the cordless varieties are pretty good for under $ 100.00, if
>>> I need to do anything serious, like driving 30 Tapcons, I will run an
>>> extension and uncork my Magnum HoleShooter Milwaukee.
>>
>> That comes from you having the wisdom/experience to chose the correct
>> tool for the job. :)
>>
>
> Well, errmm, yes.<G> But how many hobbyists tackle heavy-duty
> projects with hobbyists tools?
> "Well, I got this 3.1 volt $19.00 Flack& Pecker drill/concrete mixer
> combo and whilst trying to build a 2000 sq ft deck out of 'free'
> railroad ties...the fukkin thing went up and broke on me!
> Then...it is likely for me to say "you need a better tool!"
> The reply is then likely to be: "you are a tool snob!!!"
>
> ...and so it goes....
> .
> .
> .
> I think I will have another cold drink.
Flack & Pecker, hahahaha.
SWMBO always makes a bit of a racket when I buy a new tool, it was funny
last weekend, she wanted to drill some holes in the bottom of some
rubbermaid buckets she uses for gardening waste/weeds etc so the water
will drain out. I said sure, grabed my 14.4V Dewalt cordless, popped a
one inch hole saw onto it, and handed it to her.

She came back a bit later, and said it was awesome. I know it isn't the
best thing out there, but it will hold its own against a lot of them.

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

>> Well, errmm, yes.<G> But how many hobbyists tackle heavy-duty
>> projects with hobbyists tools?
>
> A: Almost every hobbyist who has ever tried a heavy-duty project.
> Nature of the beast. That's how I've discovered which tools needed to
> be heavy duty. If it burns out during a project, opt higher next time.
> <snicker>


I picked up DeWalt's 10 Amp 1/2" drill (corded) for myself for Christmas
($95 at the time). Plenty of torque... I still use my (much less
powerful) cordless drill for most tasks, but both drills together are a
good combination (for me).

Bill

On Sat, 04 Jun 2011 14:22:18 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 6/4/2011 2:04 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Fri, 03 Jun 2011 07:23:31 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> What pays when buying any tool, and regardless of user status, is to
>>> question what was sacrificed, with regard to engineering and component
>>> quality, to justify the reduction in MSRP for very similar models of the
>>> same brand.
>>
>> No, a hobbyist can just *want* a certain brand or model, with no justification
>> at all. It's a business decision for the professional, though "want" may
>> enter into the formula too. ;-)
>
>Go back and read what you responded to ...

I read it. You said "regardless of user status", which is false, IMO.
Hobbyists are motivated differently than professionals. A hobbyist may just
buy the most expensive, assuming it's the best (Festool anyone? ;-). The
marketing to each group is also different.

>It isn't the "hobbyist" doing the justification - it's what did the
>manufacturer do to the product to justify selling it at a lower price?

Sure, there is product differentiation in any consumer (or pro) product.
Sometimes the only difference is that it is differentiated.

>The point is, in case you missed it also, is you can bet your sweet ass
>something is different besides the color scheme.

One would like to think so but there certainly is no guarantee of that. I've
worked on products where the only difference between models was the marketing
and the specs dictated by the marketing department. Though this is besides
the point.

On 01 Jun 2011 22:10:32 GMT, Puckdropper
<puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:

>Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>>
>> AND if you find that this grade suites you, for $70 more you can get
>> the above PLUS an impact driver, flash light, and an extra battery.
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Makita-LCT300W-18-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Cordless/dp/B0
>> 00V2BRM2/ref=sr_1_3?s=power-hand-tools&ie=UTF8&qid=1306960694&sr=1-3
>
>If you want it right this minute, the LCT200W (2 tools, no flashlight) is
>available at Home Depot for $214.
>
>The LCT300W (3 tools) above is a great kit, and the flashlight is worth the
>extra $5.

If you don't need the really gutsy batteries (the 3.0Ah LXTs), that's
probably not a bad deal. If you do, go with this Makita combo:
http://goo.gl/2WPVG (crap, I paid that much for my kit w/o the drill,
damnit)

--
Education is when you read the fine print.
Experience is what you get if you don't.
-- Pete Seeger

On 6/3/2011 10:06 AM, Robatoy wrote:

> That whole 'hobbyist vs pro' argument varies a lot when the type of
> tool is taken into consideration. A drill, impact driver is less
> likely to be all that different as either the pro or hobbyist drill
> will make a hole and drive a screw somehow, eventually....
> The Big Diff shows up in say... a jig saw? A ROS? Even circular saws.
> Oh, and beltsanders... BIG difference in beltsanders... the cheap shit
> don't work, period.

Agreed, although IME there has always been a big difference in cordless
drills when it comes to quality/longevity. My original Makita cordle$$,
bought 25 years ago, lasted over a dozen years before I was forced to
replace it ... it also fell off a dozen ladders during that time and
never missed a beat. My Dewalt 18v, bought to replace it, is still
kicking at around ten, although there have been quite a few battery
rebuilds in the interim.

Basically, I've never had a under $100 cordless drill last as long as
either of those, and I've bought a couple or three.

> I love a good tool as much as the next guy, but when it comes to
> drills, the cordless varieties are pretty good for under $ 100.00, if
> I need to do anything serious, like driving 30 Tapcons, I will run an
> extension and uncork my Magnum HoleShooter Milwaukee.


That comes from you having the wisdom/experience to chose the correct
tool for the job. :)

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Sat, 04 Jun 2011 18:41:36 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 6/4/2011 3:07 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 04 Jun 2011 14:22:18 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/4/2011 2:04 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 03 Jun 2011 07:23:31 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> What pays when buying any tool, and regardless of user status, is to
>>>>> question what was sacrificed, with regard to engineering and component
>>>>> quality, to justify the reduction in MSRP for very similar models of the
>>>>> same brand.
>
>>> Go back and read what you responded to ...
>>
>> I read it. You said "regardless of user status", which is false, IMO.
>
>Tsk, tsk ... What on earth could possibly be "false" about ANY user
>asking a prudent, sensible question regarding a product they are
>contemplating purchasing, "regardless of user status"?

I'm sure you understand that there is a difference between what is "prudent"
and what *is*. That's only part of what's "false". ;-)

On 6/4/2011 2:04 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 03 Jun 2011 07:23:31 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:

>> What pays when buying any tool, and regardless of user status, is to
>> question what was sacrificed, with regard to engineering and component
>> quality, to justify the reduction in MSRP for very similar models of the
>> same brand.
>
> No, a hobbyist can just *want* a certain brand or model, with no justification
> at all. It's a business decision for the professional, though "want" may
> enter into the formula too. ;-)

Go back and read what you responded to ...

It isn't the "hobbyist" doing the justification - it's what did the
manufacturer do to the product to justify selling it at a lower price?

The point is, in case you missed it also, is you can bet your sweet ass
something is different besides the color scheme.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 6/1/2011 11:48 AM, Just Wondering wrote:
> For those who are interested in a good deal on a cordless drill:
>
> For today only Amazon has Makita LXFD01CW 18-Volt Compact Lithium-Ion
> Cordless 1/2-Inch Driver-Drill Kit, list $378, on sale for $149.99, free
> shipping.

Unless I'm sorely mistaken, that is the lesser, DIY version of Makita.

If you're really serious about your drills and use them in your work,
check out these before you leap:

http://www.amazon.com/Makita-LXT211-18-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Cordless/dp/B001DN1T6M/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1306952729&sr=1-1

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)