Laminated plane irons?

"- Colonel -" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:2006012107181837709-nobody@verizonnet...
> Just starting to get back into woodworking after being away for several
> years.
>
> Years ago I remember reading about some manufacturer who was selling
> laminated plane irons with (I think) a layer of very hard steel sandwiched
> between two layers of tougher but softer steel.
>
> Either that, or I suppose it was just made of two layers - one harder but
> more brittle layer laminated to a softer, tougher layer. (If it was 3
> layers, I guess you'd have to have bevels on *both* sides of the iron.)
>
> Anyway, it always seemed like a good idea to me (I have a Swedish Frost's
> laminated steel hunting knife that cuts like a dream) and I wondered
> whether anyone here had tried such an iron? Comments?

Got three-six of those laminated carving knives myself. They are a great
deal, for those looking for shop knives. Tough enough with the mild steel,
but viciously sharp edge. Just remember they will chip a bit easier if you
try to use them as screwdrivers. Having raised two boys, I know this for a
fact.

However, what was a necessity is now termed a virtue as far as plane irons
go. Back when steel was ridiculously expensive, it made perfect sense to
laminate or weld a steel end onto mild steel or even iron. With modern
alloys and treatments, machts nichts. I have high carbon and A2 in mine,
both take and hold an edge well enough that you just might hesitate to
rehone, even though you should, by board feet. They're still cutting well.
Toughness, as with the knives, is certainly no issue.

It may be a talking point for devotees of Japanese irons, but it's certainly
not necessary.

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 07:53:16 -0500, "George" <George@least> wrote:

>However, what was a necessity is now termed a virtue as far as plane irons
>go. Back when steel was ridiculously expensive, it made perfect sense to
>laminate or weld a steel end onto mild steel or even iron. With modern
>alloys and treatments, machts nichts.

Not at all - just look at the Japanese chisels. Both parts are steel,
but the edge steel is a high carbon steel that would be impossibly
brittle for making the whole chisel out of.

You can argue that "A2 simply replaces everything" and for most tools,
for almost all people, you'd have a point. But current Japanese low-end
edge steels are simply unusable unless laminated, and there's still a
very good argument that these admittedly brittle steels still have there
place instead of A2, not just at the esoteric end.

I also have plenty of Sheffield tools (particularly axes) that are a
steel edge welded between a folded iron (not steel) head. Some of these
aren't even particularly old. Lots of my big framing slicks are a
three-part weld - a hard steel lamination welded to a soft steel chisel
body, then a wrought iron piece welded on to make the socket for the
handle.

– Colonel – wrote:
> Just starting to get back into woodworking after being away for several
> years.
>
> Years ago I remember reading about some manufacturer who was selling
> laminated plane irons with (I think) a layer of very hard steel
> sandwiched between two layers of tougher but softer steel.
>
> Either that, or I suppose it was just made of two layers - one harder
> but more brittle layer laminated to a softer, tougher layer. (If it was
> 3 layers, I guess you'd have to have bevels on *both* sides of the iron.)
>
> Anyway, it always seemed like a good idea to me (I have a Swedish
> Frost's laminated steel hunting knife that cuts like a dream) and I
> wondered whether anyone here had tried such an iron? Comments?

I have an old stanley # 51 spokeshave with one of these blades. I've
used it to remove lacquer from and old chairwood piece, and to shape the
chairwood into a bowsaw handle. The chairwood is something very hard,
and I've since used the spokeshave on other more pedestrian woods and it
cuts as clean as the day I last honed it. Very nice blade, a modern
stanley/buck/BorgFlavorOfTheDay blade is no comparison.

I'd like to try some chisels made this way.

er
--
email not valid

In article <[email protected]>, "George" <George@least>
wrote:

> However, what was a necessity is now termed a virtue as far as plane irons
> go. Back when steel was ridiculously expensive, it made perfect sense to
> laminate or weld a steel end onto mild steel or even iron.

Right George - and this practice/technology of laminating goes back a
few hundred years at least.
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
__________

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:18:18 GMT, – Colonel – <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Years ago I remember reading about some manufacturer who was selling
>laminated plane irons with (I think) a layer of very hard steel
>sandwiched between two layers of tougher but softer steel.

A two-layer sandwich for planes and chisels. Three layer is for
symmetrical edges, like knives.

I use these a lot. All my Japanese irons are laminated, the Stanley
Sweetheart iron is one of my favourite old plane irons. Plane irons and
especially mortice chisels from Sheffeld are laminated too.

If I make a specialist wooden or infill plane, then I use a 50 year old
Marples or similar laminated iron in it (I can buy these NOS easily) If
I refurb a Stanley smoother, then I usually put a Samurai laminated iron
into it.

With modern steels, particularly A2, then you probably get a better iron
for almost all purposes. I can sharpen a laminated iron to a better
edge, but I know I can't keep it there as long. I also can't work A2 to
shape it how I want it (you can harden it easily, but it's not
annealable by mortal man). Where I have a modern vertas plane with an
A2 iron in it, then I'm really happy with it - but I can't use it for
specials and refurbs in the same way.

Ð Colonel Ð <[email protected]> writes:

[...]

> Years ago I remember reading about some manufacturer who was selling
> laminated plane irons with (I think) a layer of very hard steel
> sandwiched between two layers of tougher but softer steel.

One hard layer with the edge, one soft layer for the rest. The hard
layer usually does not extend over the whole length of the iron, it
stops short of the slot for the screw to fix the chip breaker.

It's not a new idea, all my older planes (more than 40 years old) have
sich irons.
It's still the common technology for japanese irons.

Also nice are chinese irons with a hard HSS front part and a soft
steel back part, with a brazed scarf joint between them.

--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
mailto:[email protected] Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23

They are made in Japan by a blacksmith, the only place I know of or can find
to buy them is from Japan Woodworker:
http://japanwoodworker.com/dept.asp?dept_id=12943

I am not experienced with these, but as much as I have read I know that the
blue steel is superior, easy to sharpen and that edge lasts long.

There is also A-2 steel blades made by Hock Tools, Lie-Nielson and Veritas
(http://www.leevalley.com/).

A-2 is known for holding an edge a very long time, very tough, but it is also
hard to sharpen and can't quite attain as sharp an edge as high carbon steel,
the latter of the two is what I prefer most, as long as a whole blade will last
anyway.

With the Japanese laminated blades, what I dislike is the thickness of 5/64".

Hock HCS is superior and thicker, RC 62, and easy to sharpen a serious edge:
http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/ http://www.hocktools.com/

--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/