I have decided I need a lathe. I have aquired an obscure new hobby,
gathering wild rice. In order to collect the rice, wooden flails (
also called knockers) are used to knock the rice from the stalks into
a canoe. The size, shape, and weight of the knockers are determined
by Minnesota statute. They must be smooth and round, no longer than
30 inches or one inch across, and weight no more than one pound. I
figure I need a lathe to make these knockers.
Ricing is an obscure activity, not popular at all. this is because it
is such hard work. there are no commercially available knockers. Yes,
I know that I could just use a branch or a broomstick but here's the
thing. The right knockers can increase your ricing efficiency
dramatically.
Most of the other ricers I see are Native Americans ( I am not). I
have been careful to observe what type of knockers they use and their
shape. I assume that these tools have been passed down through
generations and the design is very specific. It is widest in the
middle and tapers toward the ends similar to a rolling pin but more
exaggerated. IIt is very smooth except for that ridge in the middle.
They are also larger than my knockers and I am guessing they are sanded
down until they are exactly at one pound. A heavier knocker is
probably an advantage and this ridge in the middle is likely the most
you can have and still be called "smooth". the ridge would aid in the
knocking.
It seems that the critical dimension in choosing the lathe is this 30
in measurement. When looking at lathes I notice that they say
"working distance between centers". I assume this number needs to be
greater that 30 inches. would that be correct?
The reason I am confused it that they will call it a 14 inch lathe
because it is the bed capacity but that the distance between centers
can be listed as 40". Can anyone explain this to me?
here is an example:
http://www.7corners.com/7c_store/showdetl.cfm?DID=1&offerings_ID=-974133630&ObjectGroup_ID=395181403&CATID=669291778
Basswood is a traditional material for knockers and I have lots of it
on my place. It is very soft and easily worked as well as lighweight,
attributes which make it ideal for a tool that has a maximum weight for
a given size. I have plenty of basswood to allow for the mistakes I am
likely to make.
What type or size of lathe do I need to fashion these "knockers". I
was hoping to find a low cost benchtop style machine but it looks like
i need somthing bigger for these 30 inch sticks. I never want to buy a
low quality machine because that has always been a mistake for me in
the past. On the other hand, I don't have any other project in mind
other than this one and I don't care to spend any more than necessary.
Also, what type of tool( s) like skews and chisels will be needed in
order to do this job? thanks to all
Lawrence
In article <[email protected]>,
lwhaley <[email protected]> wrote:
->I have decided I need a lathe.
When did "need" ever enter into the equation when it comes to buying a
new tools? :-)
Joe
Eddie wrote:
> "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "lwhaley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >> The size, shape, and weight of the knockers are determined
> >> by Minnesota statute. They must be smooth and round,
>
> Where I come from (Liverpool) knockers are women's breasts! I agree with the
> Minnesota statute! "They must be smooth and round,"
> Eddie
LOL, knockers are also breasts her in the USA. I expected and
encourage such jokes, hahahhah. This usage is very obscure, I assure
you and will not be found in andy dictionary.
Lawrence
Walt Cheever wrote:
> I hope you like wild rice, because you are going to spend a few $$$ to
> gather it.
LOL, thanks Walt for your reply. I already have lots of tools I
probably don't need, lol. I'm a freak for tools and love to buy and
own them or else I wouldn't be buying a lathe. Yes, I like wild rice
quit a lot and figure I can eat one or two pound per week. You might
be surprised to learn that ricing can be a profitable activity. It is
a 50 million dollar business in Minnesota! Wild Rice can be processed
for $.70 per finished pound. The retail price is between 5 and 10
dollars per pound. So you see, there is a profit there. Of course
you have to have a truck and canoe as well as other tools...
>
> A Jet Mini lathe is about $290. It has a 10 swing, meaning that it will
> turn work of 10" diameter. The bed is only about 18 inches long, so you will
> need an extension to make a 30" knocker. Add another $80 or so.
>
> You can buy a cheap chisel set for about $40 and you are in business.
>
> Once you get the lathe, I'll bet you find a few other things that you might
> like to do with it. I put in several hours a day on mine.
Gosh Walt, thanks for that reply. I have seen that tool for sure but
assumed it was too small. That is affordable for me and I will take
another look at it now. I bet you are right to say I will find other
projects for it. I have heard that turning can be quite addictive. I
live on a 20 acre wood lot and have access to lots of odd shaped pieces
of wood that could be turned into bowls or other objects. for now, I
am interested in "knockers", lol.
Lawrence
10x wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> lwhaley <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> ->I have decided I need a lathe.
>
> When did "need" ever enter into the equation when it comes to buying a
> new tools? :-)
LOL, thats a good one Joe. At least you didn't make another knocker
joke. You are correct to correct me. I don't really need a lathe.
I just want one, which is quite sufficient since I don't have a woman
to veto the purchase, lol.
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "lwhaley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > The size, shape, and weight of the knockers are determined
> > by Minnesota statute. They must be smooth and round,
>
>
> I agree on the smooth and round, but I think this is too much of an
> intrusion by government. Is this some bill introduced on behalf of plastic
> surgeons and Dow chemical? Are there certified state knockers inspectors?
> How does it work, are women tested and inspected when they renew their
> drivers license?
Hello Edwin,
Congratulations on being the first to make a knocker joke, hahahhaha.
Ricing is regulated by the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources
just like hunting and fishing and a state liscence is required. So you
see, there are knocker inspectors out there called the DNR. I doubt
though if they put much energy into enforcing knocker design. I'm sure
the fine is a very small one.
Toller wrote:
> A used craftsman will run $70, with tools.
> But even for $70 you could get a woodworker to knock you out a few knockers.
Now that's affordable and something I will look into. I am a bit of a
woodworker and also a do-it-yourselfer or I wouldn't be gathering my
own food from the wild. It will be fun for me to buy a new tool and
give it a try. I have lots of that nice basswood around to make my
mistakes on. also, It can be difficult to hire anyone to do anything
in our isolated are, believe it. thanks for that helpful reply.
Lawrence
J T wrote:
> Mon, Sep 11, 2006, 6:50am (EDT-3) [email protected] (lwhaley)
> scribeth thusly:
> <snip> also a do-it-yourselfer or I wouldn't be gathering my own food
> from the wild. <snip>
>
> Obviously not hard-cor DIY, or you'd make your own wood lathe - out
> of wood. I've got plans for one somewhere you can basically extend as
> long between centers as you want. The plans show about 8' if I recall
> right. There-s plans on-line too.
>
> You might ask the Native Americans what kind of lathe their
> ancestors used for their knockers, maybe they have plans available. I
> like small knockers myself.
Thanks JT for that suggestion. Another guy emailed me with similar
advice, a spring-pole lathe. I know what they are like, for sure, and
it will do the job. I'm a machine guy myself and love the power tools
but a great suggestion nontheless.
I would ask them Indians about their toos but, gosh golly, they don't
talk to me. When I said hello to some guys with what looked like
heirloom tools they would not say a word to me. Some Indians probably
resent seeing our white faces out in the same rice as them. I guess I
would be pissed too if I was a Native American. I am rich and white
so what do I care? A little reverse discrimination don't bother me
too much.
However, I know that tribal leaders have said that they want the whites
to harvest also. Ricing has been declining among young Natives and
they welcome all who continue the traditional ways. It seems youg
people are more interested in video games and hourly wages than they
are hard labor for little wages. The act of ricing actually propagates
the rice because a lot of grain falls into the water. It also
encourages the wildlife, mainly birds, since they are not able to feed
on the rice until it falls on the water. The DNR even buys
unprocessed grain for the purpose of re-seeding damaged beds.
Ricing on the Indian Reservation is allowed only to those are members
of the tribe and/or residents of the reservation. The best ricing is
on these reservations so they have plenty of space to harvest without
having to see my white face, is one way to look at it. We do our
ricing outside the reservation boundary, obviously.
Lawrence
Mon, Sep 11, 2006, 6:50am (EDT-3) [email protected] (lwhaley)
scribeth thusly:
<snip> also a do-it-yourselfer or I wouldn't be gathering my own food
from the wild. <snip>
Obviously not hard-cor DIY, or you'd make your own wood lathe - out
of wood. I've got plans for one somewhere you can basically extend as
long between centers as you want. The plans show about 8' if I recall
right. There-s plans on-line too.
You might ask the Native Americans what kind of lathe their
ancestors used for their knockers, maybe they have plans available. I
like small knockers myself.
JOAT
I am not paranoid. I do not "think" people are after me. I "know" damn
well they're after me.
dadiOH wrote:>
> The 14" means it can turn a piece 14" in diameter over the bed.
> Distance between centers is the length of the piece it can turn. Now,
> that doesn't mean that this lathe can turn a piece 14" in diameter
> *AND* 40" long as the max diameter is generally over a cut out area of
> the bed and is meant for bowl turners.
> __________________
>
Yikes, now I am confused. I think I understand that just because a
lathe has a 14" capacity doesn't mean it actually has that capablitly.
But where you say "40" long as the max diameter is generally over a
cut out area of
> the bed and is meant for bowl turners" I think you meant to say 14" not 40". A typo perhaps??
Lawrence
J. Chris Tilton wrote:
> I would also keep an eye on auctions in your area. You may be able to find a
> good used one for less money.
>
> I googled harvesting wild rice in Minnesota because I was not aware that
> wild rice grew there. Is this the same rice as what we are used to - that
> was introduced to the US in colonial days as a cash crop? I always thought
> that rice grew best in warmer climates - I did not think it grew that far
> north.
>
>
I am new to ricing but have learned a lot this year. Wild Rice is an
interesting plant. It is a grass rather than a true rice. I have read
up on it a bit but haven't heard about that particular bit of history.
Wild Rice is sacred to the Native Americans in this area. In their
legend it says thay the creator told them to travel west until you find
the food that grows upon the water. The Indians have used it as a cash
crop and subsistence food for as long as they have been here.
Interestingly both the Indians and the archeologists agree, the plant
is ancient and pre-dates humanity in this area. Minnesota seem to be
the center of the wild rice universe but it grows throught the great
lake region including Canada, but mostly in Minnesota, Wisconsin, and
Michigan. It used to have a much wider range before it's habitat was
disturbed. Also, I learned that these rice beds are large geographic
features which can be seen on sattelite photography. So I can just
Google Earth to find the rice!! Word of mouth is also helpful. I have
well known ricing areas within one mile of my home.
Now there are thousands of acres of commercial rice paddies that are
harvested with chemicals and machines. There remains, however, a
market for truly wild harvested rice even though it is a lot more
expensive. Wild harvested rice has several culinary advantages over
commmercial rice including that it is better tasting and cooks in 1/5
the time. Here are a few links for your further study, there is even a
video:
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Organic_Gardening/1982_September_October/A_Gourmet_Harvest_From_the_Autumn_Mud
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/snapshots/plants/wildrice.html
http://www.nativeharvest.com/
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/volunteer/julaug04/ricing.html
Darrell Feltmate wrote:
> Lawrence
> I have 4 lathes and one of them is the equivalent to the Craftsman monotube.
> Mine is Canadian Tire and goes on sale every six weeks of so for about
> C$150. It will do the job you want. There are lots of copies on the market.
> A 30 inch spindle an inch in dameter will whip quite a bit so you may want
> to make a steady rest for the machine too. And get some practice, practice ,
> practice. Any intro set of turning tools should get you what you need,
> basically a roughing gouge and a skew. You also want a grinding jig for
> sharpening. Trust me on this one. Even if you are an accomplished tool
> sharpener you want a jig for the turning tools. There are instructions on my
> web site. Nothing to sell there, but free plans and tips. Hope this helps.
> Actually, you can likely make a knocker easier with a draw knife and a
> shaving horse, but where is the addiction in that?
Thanks Darrell for that very excellent link. Oh yea, I know that I
could carve my knockers rather quickly with the drawknife, and I have
one. You are right to say it doesn't sound nearly as much fun. and
even though it will take me a while to learn to turn a good one, i
believe that i will eventually be able to turn one out faster and
better on a lathe and I have plenty of wood in my forest to practice
on. I am looking for knockers that are perfectly smooth, except for
that taper. It would be harder, I think, to get it so smooth with a
drawknife. There would be alot of sanding either way but it looks to
me like the lathe would really expedite sanding.
Ralph E Lindberg wrote:
> In article <LKnOg.7805$v%[email protected]>,
> "CW" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > That was the first thing that came to mind when I read the OPs post. I doubt
> > the "Native Americans" made theirs with a lathe. Likely hand carved.
> >
> >
> AFAIK the lathe was unknown in the America's before the European
> settlement.
the Indians around here have their own commercial sawmills and
woodshops on the reservation. Modern natives have access to all of
the same techonology as we have in the dominant culture.
I hardly find it relevant whether or not the lathe was available
hundreds of years ago since very few, if any, knockers of that vintage
would be likely to still exist. whether or not their tools are carved
or turned I do not know. what I do know is that they have the
capability. The knockers I observed were very smooth and could have
been either turned or carved.
We have no way to know without them telling us or by a more up close
observation of their tools which would be, at the least, impolite. I
imagine that each ricing team has it's own unique tool fashioned by the
ricers them selves or just borrowed from tribal members. Personal
property doesn't mean so much to them, it doesn't seem, and they may
not even make a great dictinction as to which individual or family
"owns" the tools.
Bottom line: It's their business so I don't ask. It's called respect.
If I spend enough time on the lake and at the landing, opportunities
will arise for me to grab a quick look and that will have to suffice.
Fri, Sep 15, 2006, 5:17pm (EDT-3) [email protected] (lwhaley) doth
sayeth:
<snip> I hardly find it relevant whether or not the lathe was available
hundreds of years ago since very few, if any, knockers of that vintage
would be likely to still exist.
<snip> Personal property doesn't mean so much to them, it doesn't seem,
<snip>
Depends, some tools are kept in families for decades, and used. A
for instance is throwing sticks, a version of boomerangs. Passed down
from generation to generation, and still being used. Another for
instance, if I'd gotten the tools I'd been promised by my grandfather,
I'd be using tools over 200 years old now. As is I do use a few that
are around 100 years old, or older.
I wouldn't count on personal property not meaning much to them.
JOAT
I am not paranoid. I do not "think" people are after me. I "know" damn
well they're after me.
Walt Cheever wrote:
> Lawrence,
>=20
> I hope you like wild rice, because you are going to spend a few $$$ t=
o
> gather it.
>=20
> A Jet Mini lathe is about $290.=A0=A0It=A0has=A0a=A010=A0swing,=A0mea=
ning=A0that=A0it=A0will
> turn work of 10" diameter. The bed is only about 18 inches long, so y=
ou will
> need an extension to make a 30" knocker.=A0=A0Add=A0another=A0$80=A0o=
r=A0so.
The Jet is a good suggestion. Another possibility is the Rikon. A lit=
tle
less money, a little more swing, a little more length, and an extension=
is
available for about the same price. Of course, it's not a well known b=
rand
as is the Jet, but I haven't heard any complaints about its quality.
--=20
It's turtles, all the way down
I would also keep an eye on auctions in your area. You may be able to find a
good used one for less money.
I googled harvesting wild rice in Minnesota because I was not aware that
wild rice grew there. Is this the same rice as what we are used to - that
was introduced to the US in colonial days as a cash crop? I always thought
that rice grew best in warmer climates - I did not think it grew that far
north.
"lwhaley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have decided I need a lathe. I have aquired an obscure new hobby,
> gathering wild rice. In order to collect the rice, wooden flails (
> also called knockers) are used to knock the rice from the stalks into
> a canoe. The size, shape, and weight of the knockers are determined
> by Minnesota statute. They must be smooth and round, no longer than
> 30 inches or one inch across, and weight no more than one pound. I
> figure I need a lathe to make these knockers.
>
> Ricing is an obscure activity, not popular at all. this is because it
> is such hard work. there are no commercially available knockers. Yes,
> I know that I could just use a branch or a broomstick but here's the
> thing. The right knockers can increase your ricing efficiency
> dramatically.
>
> Most of the other ricers I see are Native Americans ( I am not). I
> have been careful to observe what type of knockers they use and their
> shape. I assume that these tools have been passed down through
> generations and the design is very specific. It is widest in the
> middle and tapers toward the ends similar to a rolling pin but more
> exaggerated. IIt is very smooth except for that ridge in the middle.
> They are also larger than my knockers and I am guessing they are sanded
> down until they are exactly at one pound. A heavier knocker is
> probably an advantage and this ridge in the middle is likely the most
> you can have and still be called "smooth". the ridge would aid in the
> knocking.
>
> It seems that the critical dimension in choosing the lathe is this 30
> in measurement. When looking at lathes I notice that they say
> "working distance between centers". I assume this number needs to be
> greater that 30 inches. would that be correct?
>
> The reason I am confused it that they will call it a 14 inch lathe
> because it is the bed capacity but that the distance between centers
> can be listed as 40". Can anyone explain this to me?
> here is an example:
> http://www.7corners.com/7c_store/showdetl.cfm?DID=1&offerings_ID=-974133630&ObjectGroup_ID=395181403&CATID=669291778
>
> Basswood is a traditional material for knockers and I have lots of it
> on my place. It is very soft and easily worked as well as lighweight,
> attributes which make it ideal for a tool that has a maximum weight for
> a given size. I have plenty of basswood to allow for the mistakes I am
> likely to make.
>
> What type or size of lathe do I need to fashion these "knockers". I
> was hoping to find a low cost benchtop style machine but it looks like
> i need somthing bigger for these 30 inch sticks. I never want to buy a
> low quality machine because that has always been a mistake for me in
> the past. On the other hand, I don't have any other project in mind
> other than this one and I don't care to spend any more than necessary.
> Also, what type of tool( s) like skews and chisels will be needed in
> order to do this job? thanks to all
>
> Lawrence
>
Mon, Sep 11, 2006, 1:48am [email protected] (J.=A0Chris=A0Tilton) doth
claimeth:
<snip>=A0 I always thought that rice grew best in warmer climates - I
did not think it grew that far north.
Wild rice ain't rice. Google it.
JOAT
I am not paranoid. I do not "think" people are after me. I "know" damn
well they're after me.
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "lwhaley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> The size, shape, and weight of the knockers are determined
>> by Minnesota statute. They must be smooth and round,
Where I come from (Liverpool) knockers are women's breasts! I agree with the
Minnesota statute! "They must be smooth and round,"
Eddie
"lwhaley" <[email protected]> wrote in news:1157981003.885532.288680
@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com:
*snip*
>
> LOL, thats a good one Joe. At least you didn't make another knocker
> joke. You are correct to correct me. I don't really need a lathe.
> I just want one, which is quite sufficient since I don't have a woman
> to veto the purchase, lol.
>
>
That one would be too easy... Too easy.
Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.
To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
That's what I thought.
"Ralph E Lindberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <LKnOg.7805$v%[email protected]>,
> "CW" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > That was the first thing that came to mind when I read the OPs post. I
doubt
> > the "Native Americans" made theirs with a lathe. Likely hand carved.
> >
> >
> AFAIK the lathe was unknown in the America's before the European
> settlement.
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------
> Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org
> This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read
> RV and Camping FAQ can be found at
> http://www.ralphandellen.us/rv
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "lwhaley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>The size, shape, and weight of the knockers are determined
>>by Minnesota statute. They must be smooth and round,
>
>
>
> I agree on the smooth and round, but I think this is too much of an
> intrusion by government. Is this some bill introduced on behalf of plastic
> surgeons and Dow chemical? Are there certified state knockers inspectors?
> How does it work, are women tested and inspected when they renew their
> drivers license?
>
>
I wouldn't mind being a certified state knocker inspector.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
"Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:ANiNg.931$gN1.697@trndny08...
> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>> "lwhaley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>The size, shape, and weight of the knockers are determined
>>>by Minnesota statute. They must be smooth and round,
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree on the smooth and round, but I think this is too much of an
>> intrusion by government. Is this some bill introduced on behalf of
>> plastic surgeons and Dow chemical? Are there certified state knockers
>> inspectors? How does it work, are women tested and inspected when they
>> renew their drivers license?
>
> I wouldn't mind being a certified state knocker inspector.
>
> --
> Jack Novak
> Buffalo, NY - USA
> [email protected]
Or uncertified either for that matter...
"lwhaley" wrote
>
> Toller wrote:
>> A used craftsman will run $70, with tools.
>> But even for $70 you could get a woodworker to knock you out a few
>> knockers.
>
> Now that's affordable and something I will look into. I am a bit of a
> woodworker and also a do-it-yourselfer or I wouldn't be gathering my
> own food from the wild. It will be fun for me to buy a new tool and
> give it a try. I have lots of that nice basswood around to make my
> mistakes on. also, It can be difficult to hire anyone to do anything
> in our isolated are, believe it. thanks for that helpful reply.
>
You better be careful there Lawrence. In rural areas, word will get out
quickly if you have any unique abilities. You start making things on a
lathe, every carpenter in the area will call on you to make replacement
spindles for staircases and porches.
lwhaley wrote:
> The reason I am confused it that they will call it a 14 inch lathe
> because it is the bed capacity but that the distance between centers
> can be listed as 40". Can anyone explain this to me?
The 14" means it can turn a piece 14" in diameter over the bed.
Distance between centers is the length of the piece it can turn. Now,
that doesn't mean that this lathe can turn a piece 14" in diameter
*AND* 40" long as the max diameter is generally over a cut out area of
the bed and is meant for bowl turners.
__________________
> What type or size of lathe do I need to fashion these "knockers".
> I was hoping to find a low cost benchtop style machine but it looks
> like i need somthing bigger for these 30 inch sticks. I never want
> to buy a low quality machine because that has always been a mistake
> for me in the past. On the other hand, I don't have any other
> project in mind other than this one and I don't care to spend any
> more than necessary.
I don't use a lathe much. I have this one from Harbor Fright; it is
entirely adequate for my needs. The finish could be better but it is
solid and turns wood.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=34706
_______________
> Also, what type of tool( s) like skews and
> chisels will be needed in order to do this job?
Various. You could spend $20 - $60 or more for each or you could get
a cheapo set. I got the cheapo set...have to sharpen fairly
frequently but work fine. My set of eight was - ready? - $8.95.
Here's a high speed steel set (mine aren't) for $35.99. I may buy it
:)
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47066
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
That was the first thing that came to mind when I read the OPs post. I doubt
the "Native Americans" made theirs with a lathe. Likely hand carved.
"Darrell Feltmate" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:umoNg.2814$E67.89@clgrps13...
.
> Actually, you can likely make a knocker easier with a draw knife and a
> shaving horse, but where is the addiction in that?
lwhaley wrote:
> dadiOH wrote:>
>> The 14" means it can turn a piece 14" in diameter over the bed.
>> Distance between centers is the length of the piece it can turn.
>> Now,
>> that doesn't mean that this lathe can turn a piece 14" in diameter
>> *AND* 40" long as the max diameter is generally over a cut out
>> area of
>> the bed and is meant for bowl turners.
>> __________________
>>
> Yikes, now I am confused. I think I understand that just because a
> lathe has a 14" capacity doesn't mean it actually has that
> capablitly.
Yes it does. One can turn a piece 14" in diameter BUT that piece
can't be longer than can be accommodated over the bed. The bed is
frequently cut out near the head stock so a piece of maybe 3-4" thick
by the maximum diameter can be turned but a longer - thicker in this
case - piece could not be.
Basically, you can turn any piece that will fit between the head and
tail stocks (the "maximum length") while clearing the bed (the
"maximum diameter" or "swing").
______________
> But where you say "40" long as the max diameter is
> generally over a cut out area of
>> the bed and is meant for bowl turners" I think you meant to say
>> 14" not 40". A typo perhaps??
No typo, you read it wrong. Try this which changes "as" to
"because"...
Now, that doesn't mean that this lathe can turn a piece 14" in
diameter *AND* 40" long BECAUSE the max diameter is generally over a
cut out area of the bed and is meant for bowl turners.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
> A used craftsman will run $70, with tools.
> But even for $70 you could get a woodworker to knock you out a few
> knockers.
I'll ditto that. I used to have a Craftsman Mono-tube lathe. It was pretty
entry level, but you do not need more than a entry level lathe (but not a
mini/midi with a short bed) to do what you want.
It's sort of like asking what type of copressor do I need to run a brad
nailer... almost any will do.
I suspect that craftsman monotube lathes are one of the more common tools on
the used market.
I still use the el-cheapo turning tools that I got with the C-man. I have
since purchased better tools, but the cheapies perform remarkably well.
I am not usually a proponent of buying cheap. I sold my C-man for $100 and
now enjoy using a far superior JET. But a C-man will exactly what you're
asking.
-Steve
"lwhaley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have decided I need a lathe. I have aquired an obscure new hobby,
> gathering wild rice. In order to collect the rice, wooden flails (
> also called knockers) are used to knock the rice from the stalks into
> a canoe. The size, shape, and weight of the knockers are determined
> by Minnesota statute. They must be smooth and round, no longer than
> 30 inches or one inch across, and weight no more than one pound. I
> figure I need a lathe to make these knockers.
>
> Ricing is an obscure activity, not popular at all. this is because it
> is such hard work. there are no commercially available knockers. Yes,
> I know that I could just use a branch or a broomstick but here's the
> thing. The right knockers can increase your ricing efficiency
> dramatically.
>
> Most of the other ricers I see are Native Americans ( I am not). I
> have been careful to observe what type of knockers they use and their
> shape. I assume that these tools have been passed down through
> generations and the design is very specific. It is widest in the
> middle and tapers toward the ends similar to a rolling pin but more
> exaggerated. IIt is very smooth except for that ridge in the middle.
> They are also larger than my knockers and I am guessing they are sanded
> down until they are exactly at one pound. A heavier knocker is
> probably an advantage and this ridge in the middle is likely the most
> you can have and still be called "smooth". the ridge would aid in the
> knocking.
>
> It seems that the critical dimension in choosing the lathe is this 30
> in measurement. When looking at lathes I notice that they say
> "working distance between centers". I assume this number needs to be
> greater that 30 inches. would that be correct?
>
> The reason I am confused it that they will call it a 14 inch lathe
> because it is the bed capacity but that the distance between centers
> can be listed as 40". Can anyone explain this to me?
> here is an example:
> http://www.7corners.com/7c_store/showdetl.cfm?DID=1&offerings_ID=-974133630&ObjectGroup_ID=395181403&CATID=669291778
>
> Basswood is a traditional material for knockers and I have lots of it
> on my place. It is very soft and easily worked as well as lighweight,
> attributes which make it ideal for a tool that has a maximum weight for
> a given size. I have plenty of basswood to allow for the mistakes I am
> likely to make.
>
> What type or size of lathe do I need to fashion these "knockers". I
> was hoping to find a low cost benchtop style machine but it looks like
> i need somthing bigger for these 30 inch sticks. I never want to buy a
> low quality machine because that has always been a mistake for me in
> the past. On the other hand, I don't have any other project in mind
> other than this one and I don't care to spend any more than necessary.
> Also, what type of tool( s) like skews and chisels will be needed in
> order to do this job? thanks to all
>
A used craftsman will run $70, with tools.
But even for $70 you could get a woodworker to knock you out a few knockers.
Lawrence,
I hope you like wild rice, because you are going to spend a few $$$ to
gather it.
A Jet Mini lathe is about $290. It has a 10 swing, meaning that it will
turn work of 10" diameter. The bed is only about 18 inches long, so you will
need an extension to make a 30" knocker. Add another $80 or so.
You can buy a cheap chisel set for about $40 and you are in business.
Once you get the lathe, I'll bet you find a few other things that you might
like to do with it. I put in several hours a day on mine.
Walt Cheever
"lwhaley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have decided I need a lathe. I have aquired an obscure new hobby,
> gathering wild rice. In order to collect the rice, wooden flails (
> also called knockers) are used to knock the rice from the stalks into
> a canoe. The size, shape, and weight of the knockers are determined
> by Minnesota statute. They must be smooth and round, no longer than
> 30 inches or one inch across, and weight no more than one pound. I
> figure I need a lathe to make these knockers.
>
> Ricing is an obscure activity, not popular at all. this is because it
> is such hard work. there are no commercially available knockers. Yes,
> I know that I could just use a branch or a broomstick but here's the
> thing. The right knockers can increase your ricing efficiency
> dramatically.
>
> Most of the other ricers I see are Native Americans ( I am not). I
> have been careful to observe what type of knockers they use and their
> shape. I assume that these tools have been passed down through
> generations and the design is very specific. It is widest in the
> middle and tapers toward the ends similar to a rolling pin but more
> exaggerated. IIt is very smooth except for that ridge in the middle.
> They are also larger than my knockers and I am guessing they are sanded
> down until they are exactly at one pound. A heavier knocker is
> probably an advantage and this ridge in the middle is likely the most
> you can have and still be called "smooth". the ridge would aid in the
> knocking.
>
> It seems that the critical dimension in choosing the lathe is this 30
> in measurement. When looking at lathes I notice that they say
> "working distance between centers". I assume this number needs to be
> greater that 30 inches. would that be correct?
>
> The reason I am confused it that they will call it a 14 inch lathe
> because it is the bed capacity but that the distance between centers
> can be listed as 40". Can anyone explain this to me?
> here is an example:
> http://www.7corners.com/7c_store/showdetl.cfm?DID=1&offerings_ID=-974133630&ObjectGroup_ID=395181403&CATID=669291778
>
> Basswood is a traditional material for knockers and I have lots of it
> on my place. It is very soft and easily worked as well as lighweight,
> attributes which make it ideal for a tool that has a maximum weight for
> a given size. I have plenty of basswood to allow for the mistakes I am
> likely to make.
>
> What type or size of lathe do I need to fashion these "knockers". I
> was hoping to find a low cost benchtop style machine but it looks like
> i need somthing bigger for these 30 inch sticks. I never want to buy a
> low quality machine because that has always been a mistake for me in
> the past. On the other hand, I don't have any other project in mind
> other than this one and I don't care to spend any more than necessary.
> Also, what type of tool( s) like skews and chisels will be needed in
> order to do this job? thanks to all
>
> Lawrence
>
In article <LKnOg.7805$v%[email protected]>,
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote:
> That was the first thing that came to mind when I read the OPs post. I doubt
> the "Native Americans" made theirs with a lathe. Likely hand carved.
>
>
AFAIK the lathe was unknown in the America's before the European
settlement.
--
--------------------------------------------------------
Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org
This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read
RV and Camping FAQ can be found at
http://www.ralphandellen.us/rv
Lawrence
I have 4 lathes and one of them is the equivalent to the Craftsman monotube.
Mine is Canadian Tire and goes on sale every six weeks of so for about
C$150. It will do the job you want. There are lots of copies on the market.
A 30 inch spindle an inch in dameter will whip quite a bit so you may want
to make a steady rest for the machine too. And get some practice, practice ,
practice. Any intro set of turning tools should get you what you need,
basically a roughing gouge and a skew. You also want a grinding jig for
sharpening. Trust me on this one. Even if you are an accomplished tool
sharpener you want a jig for the turning tools. There are instructions on my
web site. Nothing to sell there, but free plans and tips. Hope this helps.
Actually, you can likely make a knocker easier with a draw knife and a
shaving horse, but where is the addiction in that?
______
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS, Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com
"lwhaley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I have decided I need a lathe. I have aquired an obscure new hobby,
> gathering wild rice. In order to collect the rice, wooden flails (
> also called knockers) are used to knock the rice from the stalks into
> a canoe. The size, shape, and weight of the knockers are determined
> by Minnesota statute. They must be smooth and round, no longer than
> 30 inches or one inch across, and weight no more than one pound. I
> figure I need a lathe to make these knockers.
>
> Ricing is an obscure activity, not popular at all. this is because it
> is such hard work. there are no commercially available knockers. Yes,
> I know that I could just use a branch or a broomstick but here's the
> thing. The right knockers can increase your ricing efficiency
> dramatically.
>
> Most of the other ricers I see are Native Americans ( I am not). I
> have been careful to observe what type of knockers they use and their
> shape. I assume that these tools have been passed down through
> generations and the design is very specific. It is widest in the
> middle and tapers toward the ends similar to a rolling pin but more
> exaggerated. IIt is very smooth except for that ridge in the middle.
> They are also larger than my knockers and I am guessing they are sanded
> down until they are exactly at one pound. A heavier knocker is
> probably an advantage and this ridge in the middle is likely the most
> you can have and still be called "smooth". the ridge would aid in the
> knocking.
>
> It seems that the critical dimension in choosing the lathe is this 30
> in measurement. When looking at lathes I notice that they say
> "working distance between centers". I assume this number needs to be
> greater that 30 inches. would that be correct?
>
> The reason I am confused it that they will call it a 14 inch lathe
> because it is the bed capacity but that the distance between centers
> can be listed as 40". Can anyone explain this to me?
> here is an example:
>
http://www.7corners.com/7c_store/showdetl.cfm?DID=1&offerings_ID=-974133630&ObjectGroup_ID=395181403&CATID=669291778
>
> Basswood is a traditional material for knockers and I have lots of it
> on my place. It is very soft and easily worked as well as lighweight,
> attributes which make it ideal for a tool that has a maximum weight for
> a given size. I have plenty of basswood to allow for the mistakes I am
> likely to make.
>
> What type or size of lathe do I need to fashion these "knockers". I
> was hoping to find a low cost benchtop style machine but it looks like
> i need somthing bigger for these 30 inch sticks. I never want to buy a
> low quality machine because that has always been a mistake for me in
> the past. On the other hand, I don't have any other project in mind
> other than this one and I don't care to spend any more than necessary.
> Also, what type of tool( s) like skews and chisels will be needed in
> order to do this job? thanks to all
>
> Lawrence
>
"lwhaley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The size, shape, and weight of the knockers are determined
> by Minnesota statute. They must be smooth and round,
I agree on the smooth and round, but I think this is too much of an
intrusion by government. Is this some bill introduced on behalf of plastic
surgeons and Dow chemical? Are there certified state knockers inspectors?
How does it work, are women tested and inspected when they renew their
drivers license?
Lawrence,
Let us know what you come up with.The chair maker at Sherbrooke Village,
part of the Nova Scotia Museum, worked spindles with a draw knife or a
treadle lathe depending on the day. He could get the spindles as smooth and
round with the draw knife as I can with the lathe, at least to my eye and
hand. I can not.
______
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS, Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com
"lwhaley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Darrell Feltmate wrote:
> > Lawrence
> > I have 4 lathes and one of them is the equivalent to the Craftsman
monotube.
> > Mine is Canadian Tire and goes on sale every six weeks of so for about
> > C$150. It will do the job you want. There are lots of copies on the
market.
> > A 30 inch spindle an inch in dameter will whip quite a bit so you may
want
> > to make a steady rest for the machine too. And get some practice,
practice ,
> > practice. Any intro set of turning tools should get you what you need,
> > basically a roughing gouge and a skew. You also want a grinding jig for
> > sharpening. Trust me on this one. Even if you are an accomplished tool
> > sharpener you want a jig for the turning tools. There are instructions
on my
> > web site. Nothing to sell there, but free plans and tips. Hope this
helps.
> > Actually, you can likely make a knocker easier with a draw knife and a
> > shaving horse, but where is the addiction in that?
>
> Thanks Darrell for that very excellent link. Oh yea, I know that I
> could carve my knockers rather quickly with the drawknife, and I have
> one. You are right to say it doesn't sound nearly as much fun. and
> even though it will take me a while to learn to turn a good one, i
> believe that i will eventually be able to turn one out faster and
> better on a lathe and I have plenty of wood in my forest to practice
> on. I am looking for knockers that are perfectly smooth, except for
> that taper. It would be harder, I think, to get it so smooth with a
> drawknife. There would be alot of sanding either way but it looks to
> me like the lathe would really expedite sanding.
>