Hole spacing

On Aug 24, 10:52=A0pm, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
> > On 8/24/2011 9:19 PM, Bill wrote:
>
> >>> There are lots of ways to solve this long standing problem, as this
> >>> thread has shown. You only NEED one of them.
>
> >> "Give me a fish and I eat for a day, Teach me to fish and..."
>
> > Teach me to code fractal geometry and ...
>
> What's a matta, fish ain't good enough for you? =A0 =A0 ; )

Only if you put that kind of fish on almond bread. Jewish biscotti aka
Mandelbrot...I know, a bit obscure....

On 8/24/2011 9:19 PM, Bill wrote:

>> There are lots of ways to solve this long standing problem, as this
>> thread has shown. You only NEED one of them.
>
> "Give me a fish and I eat for a day, Teach me to fish and..."

Teach me to code fractal geometry and ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Aug 21, 8:02=A0am, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Puckdropper wrote:
> > whit3rd <[email protected]> wrote in
> >news:32f88309-7872-4281-988a-5925c8201e7e@glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups=
.
> > com:
>
> >>>> First, locate hole #1 and #6 (mark the centers on the work). =A0Then
> >>>> connect those centers with a line.
>
> >>>> Draw a second line through #1, and mark off six equal spacings on
> >>>> that second line (any spacing that comes out evenly on your ruler
> >>>> will do). =A0Adjust a bevel so that one arm is on the secondary
> >>>> line, and the other arm connects #6 secondary to #6-actual.
> >>>> Then with that bevel set, trace from the other marks on the
> >>>> secondary line to the original line.
>
> >>> I hope the OP could follow that - cause I sure couldn't...
>
> >> It's the compass-and-straightedge method to evenly divide a line
> >> segment: make a second line that is measured off into N equal
> >> bits, connect the Nth mark on second line to the end of the primary
> >> line segment to make a triangle, then (using a bevel in this case
> >> to replicate the angle) by simlar triangles, construct the equally
> >> spaced points on the original line segment. =A0 It doesn't really need
> >> any ruler at all (dividers can make equal-size divisions).
>
> > An interesting method. =A0Here's the first hit for a webpage describing
> > the method:http://www.mathopenref.com/constdividesegment.html
>
> > Sometimes geometry is much easier than algebra.
>
> > I apologize in advance if the flash app at the top is something
> > undesired. =A0I don't have flash installed on my system so I can't see
> > it.
>
> Now that's a method I was not at all familiar with. =A0I didn't get that =
from
> whit3rd's description, but that method would require a lot more descripti=
on
> for me to have understood that.

It's also more work than is necessary. The bottom construction isn't
really needed, which means the compass isn't needed either. All that
is needed is the line/angle that connects the free end of the
constructed, uniformly divided line to the free end of the line that
you want to divide.

Replace the constructed line with an already divided measuring device,
like say a ruler, and it's a lot simpler. ;)

R

On Saturday, August 20, 2011 3:41:49 PM UTC-7, Mike Marlow wrote:
> whit3rd wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 20, 2011 10:46:19 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
> >> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and I'm trying to
> >> figure out how to space [6] holes evenly

> > First, locate hole #1 and #6 (mark the centers on the work). Then
> > connect those centers with a line.
> >
> > Draw a second line through #1, and mark off six equal spacings on that
> > second line (any spacing that comes out evenly on your ruler
> > will do). Adjust a bevel so that one arm is on the secondary
> > line, and the other arm connects #6 secondary to #6-actual.
> > Then with that bevel set, trace from the other marks on the secondary
> > line to the original line.
>
> I hope the OP could follow that - cause I sure couldn't...

It's the compass-and-straightedge method to evenly divide a line
segment: make a second line that is measured off into N equal
bits, connect the Nth mark on second line to the end of the primary
line segment to make a triangle, then (using a bevel in this case
to replicate the angle) by simlar triangles, construct the equally
spaced points on the original line segment. It doesn't really need
any ruler at all (dividers can make equal-size divisions).

Swingman wrote:
> On 8/24/2011 12:58 PM, Swingman wrote:
>
>> I still think the OP made that absolutely clear.
> ^
> DON"T
>
>
> Fuck ... I give up!

That's funny! Well, not really funny, but humorous. Well, maybe not
humorous, but clever. Well, maybe not so clever, but cute. Oh look -
Swing's "cute"...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Exactly? Six 3/4" holes on a 6" stick equally spaced? Want 1/4" of
stock between tangent of hole and end of stock on both ends?
Then locate hole no.1 with its center 5/8" from either end, (that is
the 1/4" space + 1 radian (3/8") of the hole diameter =3D 5/8)
That leaves {6" - 2(5/8") =3D} 4.75" of space to split up 6 ways.
Spacing =3D L/(N-1), where L =3D length of drilling space & N=3D6. So 4.75"=
/
5 =3D .95"
Centers for holes =3D .95"
Now How? Use fence on the drill table; let hole no.1 start its center
at 5/8" from the end of stock. Clamp in place against an end stop.
Scribe nothing; hitting a scribe line =3D .010" error minimum. (Also
true of lasers, sharp pencils, knife lines or chalk.)
Make an accurate .95" spacer, easiest choice =3D garden variety
Adustable Parallel.
Drill hole no.1, move stop x .95" (step & repeat), butt work against
new stop position, clamp & drill hole no.2.
Iterate for a total of 6 holes. Tangent of last hole will hit 5/8"
from opposite end of stock; all holes equally spaced
http://patwarner.com/drilling_lessons.html










On Aug 20, 10:46=A0am, "Paul" <[email protected]> wrote:
> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and I'm trying to figu=
re
> out how to space holes evenly along a center line in an area. Let's say I
> have a rectulanglar block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end for a border an=
d I
> want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you figure that? My
> daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of those cheap home design
> programs. That would be ideal for me. Anyone use one of those programs th=
at
> knows if they can be used for that? Thanks.
>
> --
> Paul

On 8/20/2011 4:55 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 8/20/2011 4:42 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 8/20/2011 12:46 PM, Paul wrote:
>>> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and I'm trying to
>>> figure out how to space holes evenly along a center line in an area.
>>> Let's say I have a rectulanglar block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end
>>> for a border and I want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you figure
>>> that? My daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of those cheap home
>>> design programs. That would be ideal for me. Anyone use one of those
>>> programs that knows if they can be used for that? Thanks.
>>>
>>
>> Start first hole center 29/32" from the end. Center each of the
>> remaining hole 25/32" from the first hole center.
>
>
> See pdf in a.b.p.wppdwprking hole spacing.

That's the same thing my spreadsheet came up with a couple of hours ago,
in about 1/10 and 1/2 seconds. LOL

The question remains ... is it really what the OP is asking for?

He could want the edge of the holes 1/4" from the edge of the 6" board.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 2011-08-20 13:46:19 -0400, "Paul" <[email protected]> said:

> a rectulanglar block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end for a border and I
> want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes

Here's a way to do it by only actually measuring two points. The rest
is mechaincal division.

SInce you're spacing 3/4' holes within 5 1/2 inches, you've already
defined a 1/4" border on each end. The radius of your hole is 3/8".
Thus, the centerpoint of each outer hole is 5/8" from the edge. Mark
those points.

Now, draw a line though each point, parallel to the ends of the board.
Since you're marking the center points of 4 holes and using the center
point of the other outer hole as your terminus, choose a number easily
divisible by five (like, oh, 7.5 or 10). Lay the zero point of your
ruler on one line. Swing the ruler until your chosen number lies on the
other line you've already drawn.

Then, just mark the correct divisions (1 1/2, 3... or 2,4, 6...) and
you've marked the center points for the other four holes. Draw lines
through those points and parallel to the ends crossing your center
line, and you're done.

You can, of course, tell people how brutal the math was in calculating
those points... but if you wanted to add the same dimension (x2)
outside your row of holes as between each hole, the math is more than I
want to deal with.

whit3rd <[email protected]> wrote in
news:32f88309-7872-4281-988a-5925c8201e7e@glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.
com:

>> > First, locate hole #1 and #6 (mark the centers on the work). Then
>> > connect those centers with a line.
>> >
>> > Draw a second line through #1, and mark off six equal spacings on
>> > that second line (any spacing that comes out evenly on your ruler
>> > will do). Adjust a bevel so that one arm is on the secondary
>> > line, and the other arm connects #6 secondary to #6-actual.
>> > Then with that bevel set, trace from the other marks on the
>> > secondary line to the original line.
>>
>> I hope the OP could follow that - cause I sure couldn't...
>
> It's the compass-and-straightedge method to evenly divide a line
> segment: make a second line that is measured off into N equal
> bits, connect the Nth mark on second line to the end of the primary
> line segment to make a triangle, then (using a bevel in this case
> to replicate the angle) by simlar triangles, construct the equally
> spaced points on the original line segment. It doesn't really need
> any ruler at all (dividers can make equal-size divisions).
>

An interesting method. Here's the first hit for a webpage describing
the method: http://www.mathopenref.com/constdividesegment.html

Sometimes geometry is much easier than algebra.

I apologize in advance if the flash app at the top is something
undesired. I don't have flash installed on my system so I can't see it.

Puckdropper

"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Paul" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>>My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and I'm trying to
>>figure
>>out how to space holes evenly along a center line in an area. Let's say I
>>have a rectulanglar block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end for a border and
>>I
>>want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you figure that? My
>>daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of those cheap home design
>>programs. That would be ideal for me. Anyone use one of those programs
>>that
>>knows if they can be used for that? Thanks.
>
> Well, this *is* basic math: all you need is simple arithmetic (addition,
> subtraction, multiplication, and division). What complicates this one is
> the
> use of a measuring system that's approximately a thousand years old.
>
> You have a total of 6" less two 1/4" borders = 5 1/2" to put the holes in.
>
> Six 3/4" holes take up 6 * 3/4" = 4 1/2" of that 5 1/2", leaving 1" for
> spaces
> between the holes.
>
> Since there are 6 holes, there will be 5 spaces between them. You have 1"
> total to make 5 spaces, so each space will be 1/5".
>
> The distance between the centers of the holes will be 3/4" (the width of
> the
> hole) plus 1/5" (the spacing between holes) -- this will be difficult to
> measure with tapes or rules marked in inches.
>
> I suggest you choose one of the two options below instead.
>
> Option 1
> -----------
> Increase the size of the borders by 1/32" to 9/32". This will leave you 5
> 7/16" to put 4 1/2" worth of holes in, leaving 15/16" to divide among five
> spaces between holes.
>
> 15/16" divided among five spaces = 3/16" per space -- and *that* you *can*
> measure easily. This gives you a distance between centers of 3/4" + 3/16"
> =
> 15/16".
>
> So mark the center of the first hole at 9/32" (the width of the border)
> plus
> 3/8" (*half* the width of the hole) = 21/32" in from one end. (3/8 = 6/16
> =
> 12/32; 9/32 + 12/32 = 21/32)
>
> Subsequent holes are centered every 15/16" from there:
> 21/32 + 15/16 = 21/32 + 30/32 = 51/32 = 1 29/32
> 1 19/32 + 15/16 = 1 19/32 + 30/32 = 1 49/32 = 2 27/32
> 2 27/32 + 15/16 = 2 27/32 + 30/32 = 2 57/32 = 3 25/32
> 3 25/32 + 15/16 = 3 25/32 + 30/32 = 3 55/32 = 4 23/32
> 4 23/32 + 15/16 = 4 23/32 + 30/32 = 4 53/32 = 5 21/32
>
> Option 2
> ----------
>
> Redo everything in metric. It's SO much easier.
>
> A number of years ago, I was in Toronto on business. Having utterly failed
> in
> my attempts to find a metric tape measure at home, I asked one of the guys
> I
> was working with where I could find a hardware store. He wondered why; I
> told
> him -- and he asked in honest bewilderment what on earth an American would
> want with a metric tape measure. My answer was that I'm a woodworker, and
> solving problems such as this is FAR easier with measurements in
> millimeters,
> rather than fractional inches -- as you're about to see, too.
>
> It's much easier to find metric tapes in American hardware stores now than
> it
> was in the 1980s. So go buy yourself a tape measure that has dual scales
> (inches and millimeters). That will make it easy to see the relationships
> between the two systems.
>
> Then remeasure. You will find that:
> - your block is 152mm long.
> - you want a 6mm border at each end.
> - you want to evenly space six 19mm holes.
>
> 152mm less two 6mm borders leaves (152mm - 6mm - 6mm) = 140mm.
>
> Six 19mm holes occupy 6 * 19mm = 114mm
>
> You have (140mm - 114mm) = 26mm available for the five spaces between the
> six
> holes, so there will be (26mm / 5) = 5.2mm between each hole. Ignore the
> point-two millimeters; you can't measure that fine anyway.
>
> The holes will be centered every (19mm + 5mm) = 24mm.
>
> The first hole should be a distance of 6mm (the width of the border) plus
> 9.5mm (half the width of the hole -- round it off to 10mm) = 16mm in from
> one
> end of the board.
>
> Subsequent holes are centered every 24mm after that:
> 16mm + 24mm = 40mm
> 40mm + 24mm = 64mm
> 64mm + 24mm = 88mm
> 88mm + 24mm = 112mm
> 112mm + 24mm = 136mm
> And looky there: the last hole is (152mm - 136mm) = 16mm in from the end,
> same
> as the first one.
>
> Isn't that a lot simpler?

I used to work designing and creating artwork for business forms. If they
were to be run through a computer printer they had to be designed and
created with precision. I still have a number of forms design rulers that
have scales in various inch units such as 5/32", 5/64", 1/12", 1/6", 1/3",
1/10", 1/5", all the regular multiples of 1/32" common most rulers in
addition to metric. Spacing in typesetter's points where 72 equal one inch,
with scales in units such as 5 pt, 5 1/2 pt, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 13, and 16
point multiples.

I find that these scales are valuable in woodworking as one can find a scale
to fit any need, plus they are stainless steel and almost indestructible.

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> No - it goes like this... Light a fire for a man and you keep him
> warm for a day. Light a man on fire and you keep him warm for life...
>

Teach a man woodworking, and he'll have firewood for life. (Especially if
you buy him a bandsaw.)

Puckdropper

Jack Stein <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> I think you would "only" get 3-6 years with ABPO:-) Just a rough
> guesstimate, but still sounds pretty good.
>

If you're downloading that much, go for the next higher tier. 180 gig for
$25. That'll keep anyone in business for a while.

Puckdropper

On 8/21/2011 9:32 PM, willshak wrote:
> Leon wrote the following:
>> On 8/21/2011 10:17 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>> On 8/21/2011 6:40 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>
>>>> Spread sheet! I dont need no stinking Spread sheet. LOL
>>>
>>> Getting older each day, I simply got damned tired of rebuilding the
>>> wheel every time I needed to _quickly_, and evenly, space slats between
>>> table or chair legs _without fuss_.
>>>
>>> ... and without putting the decimal place in the wrong spot. :)
>>>
>>> So I sat down, expressed how I came up with a solution algebraically
>>> <one that ALWAYS works, to the decimal point> each time I had to do it,
>>> and in less time that it takes to tell, and put it in a spreadsheet.
>>>
>>> It's called making technology work for you ... when you get old enough
>>> to experience old timer's disease, you'll understand, you young
>>> whippersnapper!
>>>
>>> <may be sooner than you think with that B'day within a week> :)
>>>
>>
>> ROTFLA,,,, It bites me in the ass every time! We have been cleaning
>> dads house out for the last 4 days, 37 years of collecting.
>>
>> Speaking of Bdays, my neighbor the computer guy's wife used to live in
>> the same neighborhood as my dad, she lived in a 6 house cu-de-sak that
>> was the end all to Christmas decorating. Any way her Bday is 8/24.
>
> Where do we send the BD cards?
>
>
Each of us would prefer money! ;~) Four of us have birthdays
beginning and ending 8/22 and 8/27.

Remember when we were bums, together?

------------
"Gerald Ross" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Growing up on the farm we only had a two-holer, but my grand-dad had a
three-holer with a star cutout in the door. No idea how they figured
out how to space the holes.

--
Gerald Ross

Be nice to your kids. They'll choose
your nursing home.

On 8/20/2011 12:46 PM, Paul wrote:
> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and I'm trying to
> figure out how to space holes evenly along a center line in an area.
> Let's say I have a rectulanglar block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end
> for a border and I want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you figure
> that? My daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of those cheap home
> design programs. That would be ideal for me. Anyone use one of those
> programs that knows if they can be used for that? Thanks.
>

This will do the same thing for you:

http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/SlatCalculation.xls

I wrote this one to give me slat/spindle spacing for Arts and Crafts
furniture projects, but it will work for holes, and fence posts if
necessary.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 8/23/2011 6:08 PM, Jack Stein wrote:
> On 8/21/2011 10:39 AM, Twayne wrote:
>> In news:[email protected],
>> Paul<[email protected]> typed:
>>> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and
>>> I'm trying to figure out how to space holes evenly along
>>> a center line in an area. Let's say I have a rectulanglar
>>> block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end for a border and I
>>> want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you figure
>>> that? My daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of
>>> those cheap home design programs. That would be ideal for
>>> me. Anyone use one of those programs that knows if they
>>> can be used for that? Thanks.
>>
>> Just about any free CAD 2D program will do that for you including
>> Sketch-it
>> or whatever it's called.
>
> It's called Sketchup and I'm surprised Swing and Leon didn't mention it.
>
> Simply draw a line the distance you want, "select" the line with the
> select tool (space bar), right click on the line and choose "divide"
> from the resultant pop up window. Move the mouse along the line and it
> will be divided into whatever number of divisions you want, and based on
> the length units you use(window/model info.) I use 1/16th's. The red
> dots show on the line, and the distance between the dots is given.
>
> Once you have the right number of dots, click and it puts invisible
> markers (invisible until you roll over them) so you can do whatever you
> want with them, or just write down the distance and have at it.
>
> For 6 holes in 6 inches you need 7 segments, and each hole will be
> 55/64's or 7/8ths. I can't see 64ths so 14/16th work fine for me:-)

Might want to reread the specifics, the holes have to be 3/4".

On 8/22/2011 10:11 PM, Gerald Ross wrote:
> Paul wrote:
>> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and I'm trying to
>> figure
>> out how to space holes evenly along a center line in an area. Let's say I
>> have a rectulanglar block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end for a border
>> and I
>> want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you figure that? My
>> daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of those cheap home design
>> programs. That would be ideal for me. Anyone use one of those programs
>> that
>> knows if they can be used for that? Thanks.
>>
> Growing up on the farm we only had a two-holer, but my grand-dad had a
> three-holer with a star cutout in the door. No idea how they figured out
> how to space the holes.
>

That was a damn sight easier to figure out ... just mark the profile of
the biggest ass on a board, add two more just like it using the Sears
catalog as a spacer.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Aug 21, 12:54=A0pm, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 07:27:36 -0500, "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wro=
te:
>
> >Sure. Tell that to the group that engineered the Hubble Space Telescope
> >where confusion over metric/proper measurements resulting in the launch =
of
> >an almost worthless instrument.
>
> Huh? =A0What did MKS/FPS have to do with Hubble's mirror shape?

It doesn't. That's one of them there scientific old wives' tales, as
related by our resident old wife.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubble_Space_Telescope#Origin_of_the_problem

R

On Saturday, August 20, 2011 10:46:19 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and I'm trying to figure
> out how to space holes evenly along a center line in an area. Let's say I
> have a rectulanglar block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end for a border and I
> want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes.

First, locate hole #1 and #6 (mark the centers on the work). Then
connect those centers with a line.

Draw a second line through #1, and mark off six equal spacings on that
second line (any spacing that comes out evenly on your ruler
will do). Adjust a bevel so that one arm is on the secondary
line, and the other arm connects #6 secondary to #6-actual.
Then with that bevel set, trace from the other marks on the secondary
line to the original line.

On Thu, 25 Aug 2011 10:06:08 -0400, Jack Stein <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 8/24/2011 10:19 PM, Bill wrote:
>
>> "Give me a fish and I eat for a day, Teach me to fish and..."
>
>But if I cut the fish into 6 equal pieces, minus a few inches for the
>tail...

14/16" pieces?

--
Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens.
-- Jimi Hendrix

On 8/21/2011 10:17 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 8/21/2011 6:40 AM, Leon wrote:
>
>> Spread sheet! I dont need no stinking Spread sheet. LOL
>
> Getting older each day, I simply got damned tired of rebuilding the
> wheel every time I needed to _quickly_, and evenly, space slats between
> table or chair legs _without fuss_.
>
> ... and without putting the decimal place in the wrong spot. :)
>
> So I sat down, expressed how I came up with a solution algebraically
> <one that ALWAYS works, to the decimal point> each time I had to do it,
> and in less time that it takes to tell, and put it in a spreadsheet.
>
> It's called making technology work for you ... when you get old enough
> to experience old timer's disease, you'll understand, you young
> whippersnapper!
>
> <may be sooner than you think with that B'day within a week> :)
>

ROTFLA,,,, It bites me in the ass every time! We have been cleaning
dads house out for the last 4 days, 37 years of collecting.

Speaking of Bdays, my neighbor the computer guy's wife used to live in
the same neighborhood as my dad, she lived in a 6 house cu-de-sak that
was the end all to Christmas decorating. Any way her Bday is 8/24.

On 8/21/2011 6:54 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 8/20/2011 12:46 PM, Paul wrote:
>> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and I'm trying to
>> figure out how to space holes evenly along a center line in an area.
>> Let's say I have a rectulanglar block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end
>> for a border and I want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you figure
>> that? My daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of those cheap home
>> design programs. That would be ideal for me. Anyone use one of those
>> programs that knows if they can be used for that? Thanks.
>>
>
> And you thought this math problem was confusing was fore you asked? ;~)

Ah hum.... and you thought this math problem was confusing before you
asked...

Paul wrote:
> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and I'm trying to figure
> out how to space holes evenly along a center line in an area. Let's say I
> have a rectulanglar block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end for a border and I
> want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you figure that? My
> daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of those cheap home design
> programs. That would be ideal for me. Anyone use one of those programs that
> knows if they can be used for that? Thanks.
>
Growing up on the farm we only had a two-holer, but my grand-dad had a
three-holer with a star cutout in the door. No idea how they figured
out how to space the holes.

--
Gerald Ross

Be nice to your kids. They'll choose
your nursing home.

On 8/24/2011 12:58 PM, Swingman wrote:

> I still think the OP made that absolutely clear.
^
DON"T


Fuck ... I give up!


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 8/24/2011 10:56 AM, Leon wrote:

> It does matter, he wants a 1/4" border in addition to the even spacing
> and he wants the holes to be 3/4" as opposed to what you stated,
>
> "each hole will be 55/64's or 7/8ths"
>
> And FWIW the holes will have 5/32" between each and the 1/4" border.
>
> Your method equally spaces the holes however it does not provide equal
> spacing before and after the first and last hole.

I still think the OP made that absolutely clear. It's why I provided two
solutions in the form of those two drawings.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Let;s add the complexity of working in a foreign language or conversion to
another measurement system to the guy that already has trouble with math!

More practical? A calculator.

Wot and idiot!

----------------
"Doug Miller" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
Metric.
Try it.

----------------
>Now I ask you, which is more practical for your average woodworker?

On 08/21/2011 06:44 AM, John wrote:
> On 08/20/2011 01:46 PM, Paul wrote:
>> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and I'm trying to
>> figure out how to space holes evenly along a center line in an area.
>> Let's say I have a rectulanglar block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end
>> for a border and I want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you figure
>> that? My daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of those cheap home
>> design programs. That would be ideal for me. Anyone use one of those
>> programs that knows if they can be used for that? Thanks.
>>
>
> You don't need math:
>
> Set the ruler (or tape measure) on a diagonal across the piece so that
> the 6" mark is even with one end the 0" is on the other end. Mark off 1"
> increments on the diagonal. You can also use even multiples of the
> spaces needed, say 30" and mark off every 2" for 15 spaces.
>
> John


Make that set the 1" mark at the first hole and the 6" mark at the last
hole and the technique will count the number of holes for you.

John

On 8/24/2011 1:10 AM, Bill wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> On 8/23/2011 6:08 PM, Jack Stein wrote:
>>> On 8/21/2011 10:39 AM, Twayne wrote:
>>>> In news:[email protected],
>>>> Paul<[email protected]> typed:
>>>>> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and
>>>>> I'm trying to figure out how to space holes evenly along
>>>>> a center line in an area. Let's say I have a rectulanglar
>>>>> block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end for a border and I
>>>>> want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you figure
>>>>> that? My daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of
>>>>> those cheap home design programs. That would be ideal for
>>>>> me. Anyone use one of those programs that knows if they
>>>>> can be used for that? Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Just about any free CAD 2D program will do that for you including
>>>> Sketch-it
>>>> or whatever it's called.
>>>
>>> It's called Sketchup and I'm surprised Swing and Leon didn't mention it.
>>>
>>> Simply draw a line the distance you want, "select" the line with the
>>> select tool (space bar), right click on the line and choose "divide"
>>> from the resultant pop up window. Move the mouse along the line and it
>>> will be divided into whatever number of divisions you want, and based on
>>> the length units you use(window/model info.) I use 1/16th's. The red
>>> dots show on the line, and the distance between the dots is given.
>>>
>>> Once you have the right number of dots, click and it puts invisible
>>> markers (invisible until you roll over them) so you can do whatever you
>>> want with them, or just write down the distance and have at it.
>>>
>>> For 6 holes in 6 inches you need 7 segments, and each hole will be
>>> 55/64's or 7/8ths. I can't see 64ths so 14/16th work fine for me:-)
>>
>> Might want to reread the specifics, the holes have to be 3/4".
>>
> I haven't read all of the messages before this one, so please excuse me
> if this has been suggested. But why not build a *paper model* (you don't
> need high-power computer software for this problem). Cut out a 6" piece
> of paper and some circles (use a marker and color them black if it helps
> you see them). Then move them around until it looks right to you and
> then tape them in place. Then you have a model which you might use in
> any number of ways. I think more things have been built working like
> this than by designing with cad/cam software.
>
> Bill

It would probably be easier to read the OP, It is simple math , no
computer model needed. I only drew the model to prove the easy math.

"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>>Doug Miller wrote:
>>
>>> Then remeasure. You will find that:
>>> - your block is 152mm long.
>>
>>> - you want a 6mm border at each end.
>>
>>No he doesn't, he wants 1/4" and 6mm doesn't equal that. Close but no
>>cigar, so much for metric unless you can measure 6.35mm on that tape :)
>
> Do you *really* think that 0.35 millimeters (less than 14 thousandths of
> an
> inch) is going to be noticeable? Or are you just trying to be
> argumentative?
>
> Had enough of that from SWMBO this past week, don't need it from you too.

My guess is he wants them about "this far in" holding fingers apart about
1/4" or 6.35mm or 4.115 parsecs

On 8/24/2011 3:32 PM, Jack Stein wrote:
> On 8/24/2011 2:21 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 8/24/2011 1:01 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>> On 8/24/2011 12:58 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>>
>>>> I still think the OP made that absolutely clear.
>>> ^
>>> DON"T
>
>>> Fuck ... I give up!
>>>
>> Roger, Woolco, and Out!
>
> Yeah, you guys are out, but now you got me stuck in Sketchup, dividing
> up 6", 5 1/2", 5 1/4" and 4 3/4" lines, 2 different ways...
>
> Thanks...
>

I aim to confuse! LOL

Take a look at my pdf file in abpw

dadiOH wrote the following:
> Paul wrote:
>> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and I'm trying to
>> figure out how to space holes evenly along a center line in an area.
>> Let's say I have a rectulanglar block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end
>> for a border and I want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you
>> figure that? My daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of those
>> cheap home design programs. That would be ideal for me. Anyone use
>> one of those programs that knows if they can be used for that? Thanks.
>
> Overkill. Easy if you just draw 6 holes on a piece of paper, just basic
> math.
>
> 6 holes = 7 non-hole spaces needed
>
> 6" - (1/4 + 1/4) = 5 1/2" for holes after accounting for 2 outside non-hole
> spaces
>
> 6 * 3/4 = 18/4 = 4 1/2" of space occupied by holes
>
> 5 1/2 - 4 1/2 = 1" of non-hole space of the 6 holes
>
> 1"/ 5 remaining non-hole spaces = 1/5 inch between holes.
>
> So...
>
> 1. Draw a horizontal line
>
> 2. Mark a hole center at 1/4 + (3/4/2) which = 5/8
>
> 3. Mark additional centers at 3/4 + 1/5 from preceding center mark
>
> 4. Drill holes
>
> Note: with dimensions like that it is unlikely you will wind up with 1/4" as
> a border for the last hole.
>
>
>


I hate math. :-)

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Leon wrote the following:
> On 8/20/2011 4:42 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 8/20/2011 12:46 PM, Paul wrote:
>>> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and I'm trying to
>>> figure out how to space holes evenly along a center line in an area.
>>> Let's say I have a rectulanglar block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end
>>> for a border and I want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you figure
>>> that? My daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of those cheap home
>>> design programs. That would be ideal for me. Anyone use one of those
>>> programs that knows if they can be used for that? Thanks.
>>>
>>
>> Start first hole center 29/32" from the end. Center each of the
>> remaining hole 25/32" from the first hole center.
>
>
> See pdf in a.b.p.wppdwprking hole spacing.


You like that 'p' key, huh?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

"HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Doug Miller wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>, "dadiOH"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Doug Miller wrote:
>>>> In article <[email protected]>, "dadiOH"
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> Doug Miller wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Then remeasure. You will find that:
>>>>>> - your block is 152mm long.
>>>>>
>>>>>> - you want a 6mm border at each end.
>>>>>
>>>>> No he doesn't, he wants 1/4" and 6mm doesn't equal that. Close
>>>>> but no cigar, so much for metric unless you can measure 6.35mm on
>>>>> that tape :)
>>>>
>>>> Do you *really* think that 0.35 millimeters (less than 14
>>>> thousandths of an inch) is going to be noticeable? Or are you just
>>>> trying to be argumentative?
>>>>
>>>> Had enough of that from SWMBO this past week, don't need it from
>>>> you too.
>>>
>>> Just pointing out that metric isn't the be-all and end-all :)
>>>
>> No, but it sure makes the calculations a LOT easier. Reduces the risk
>> of error, too, because you're always adding either integers or
>> decimals -- not mixed fractions.
>
> Sure. Tell that to the group that engineered the Hubble Space
> Telescope where confusion over metric/proper measurements resulting in
> the launch of an almost worthless instrument.
>
> And consider these two standards:
>
> "Meter = 1/10,000,000 of the distance between the North Pole and the
> Equator measured along the Prime Meridian." (Alternative definition:
> "1,650,763.73 wavelengths of the orange-red emission line in the
> electromagnetic spectrum of the krypton-86 atom in a vacuum.")
>
> vs
>
> "A pint's a pound the world around."
>
> Now I ask you, which is more practical for your average woodworker?

Metric rules. Just like US measurements, if you grew up using one, it
takes a while to get used to the other. STill good to know both, since
otherwise how would you know why plywood comes in sheets of 244 x 122 cm
...

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Jack Stein <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

> I've been thinking about going with a pay service to get binaries, but
> so far, just thinking about it...

Looks like you're doing just fine without the binaries, but your curiosity
has been tweaked.

I'd suggest you pay Astraweb $10 for 25 GB of downloads, like I did in
2008. I'm still owed 24 GB of downloads, but then, I hardly ever look at
anything other than abpw.

Bonus is the great retention and reliability of astraweb.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

FrozenNorth <[email protected]> wrote in news:j35s7k$a8$1
@dont-email.me:

> No experience with astraweb, but I can say that paying for an easynews
> or giganews account is a waste of money unless you are *very* heavily
> into downloading multipart binaries and porn.

Froz, that's why this type of subscription is so nice if you don't download
that stuff.
You pay once, and that entitles you to 25 GB of downloads, whether in 1 day
(25 GB would be difficult I think), 10 days, a year or more. As I said
many times, my one-time payment of $10 in June 2008 still lets me download
and upload posts through astraweb, and the website says I still have 24 out
of the 25 GB unused available.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Jack Stein <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

> I'm into neither and I want it for photography. There are lots of
> reasons things were better before the main ISP's dropped newsgroups, and
> binary groups certainly had there place for far more than porn.

It's their place, wherever the place is.

The porn angle was the figleaf for Verizon and others to drop many
newsgroups first, then drop them all. Money was the real reason. We all
have Andy the Terrible Cuomo to thank for this.

Nevertheless, I still think that $10 for 75 years of access (at my current
usage rate) isn't too much.


--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Aug 20, 1:46=A0pm, "Paul" <[email protected]> wrote:
> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and I'm trying to figu=
re
> out how to space holes evenly along a center line in an area. Let's say I
> have a rectulanglar block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end for a border an=
d I
> want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you figure that? My
> daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of those cheap home design
> programs. That would be ideal for me. Anyone use one of those programs th=
at
> knows if they can be used for that? Thanks.

Equal divisions on a line using a ruler held at an angle. No
calculation required.
http://www.tpub.com/math1/19.htm
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DlYiDDjpWsuk

Online calculators:
http://www.virginiarailingandgates.com/calculations.asp

There's an app for that:
http://www.gabrioconstruction.com/BalusterPro/Home.html

R

whit3rd wrote:
> On Saturday, August 20, 2011 10:46:19 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
>> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and I'm trying to
>> figure out how to space holes evenly along a center line in an area.
>> Let's say I have a rectulanglar block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each
>> end for a border and I want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes.
>
> First, locate hole #1 and #6 (mark the centers on the work). Then
> connect those centers with a line.
>
> Draw a second line through #1, and mark off six equal spacings on that
> second line (any spacing that comes out evenly on your ruler
> will do). Adjust a bevel so that one arm is on the secondary
> line, and the other arm connects #6 secondary to #6-actual.
> Then with that bevel set, trace from the other marks on the secondary
> line to the original line.

I hope the OP could follow that - cause I sure couldn't...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Bill wrote:
> Eric wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Jack Stein" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>
>> On 8/24/2011 2:10 AM, Bill wrote:
>>>>> On 8/21/2011 10:39 AM, Twayne wrote:
>>>> On 8/23/2011 6:08 PM, Jack Stein wrote:
>>
>>>>> Just about any free CAD 2D program will do that for you including
>>>>> Sketch-it or whatever it's called.
>>
>>>>> It's called Sketchup and I'm surprised Swing and Leon didn't
>>>>> mention it.
>>
>>> I haven't read all of the messages before this one, so please
>>> excuse me if this has been suggested. But why not build a *paper
>>> model* (you don't need high-power computer software for this
>>> problem).
>>
>> There are lots of ways to solve this long standing problem, as this
>> thread has shown. You only NEED one of them.
>
> "Give me a fish and I eat for a day, Teach me to fish and..."

No - it goes like this... Light a fire for a man and you keep him warm for
a day. Light a man on fire and you keep him warm for life...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Puckdropper wrote:
> whit3rd <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:32f88309-7872-4281-988a-5925c8201e7e@glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.
> com:
>
>>>> First, locate hole #1 and #6 (mark the centers on the work). Then
>>>> connect those centers with a line.
>>>>
>>>> Draw a second line through #1, and mark off six equal spacings on
>>>> that second line (any spacing that comes out evenly on your ruler
>>>> will do). Adjust a bevel so that one arm is on the secondary
>>>> line, and the other arm connects #6 secondary to #6-actual.
>>>> Then with that bevel set, trace from the other marks on the
>>>> secondary line to the original line.
>>>
>>> I hope the OP could follow that - cause I sure couldn't...
>>
>> It's the compass-and-straightedge method to evenly divide a line
>> segment: make a second line that is measured off into N equal
>> bits, connect the Nth mark on second line to the end of the primary
>> line segment to make a triangle, then (using a bevel in this case
>> to replicate the angle) by simlar triangles, construct the equally
>> spaced points on the original line segment. It doesn't really need
>> any ruler at all (dividers can make equal-size divisions).
>>
>
> An interesting method. Here's the first hit for a webpage describing
> the method: http://www.mathopenref.com/constdividesegment.html
>
> Sometimes geometry is much easier than algebra.
>
> I apologize in advance if the flash app at the top is something
> undesired. I don't have flash installed on my system so I can't see
> it.
>

Now that's a method I was not at all familiar with. I didn't get that from
whit3rd's description, but that method would require a lot more description
for me to have understood that.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Aug 21, 8:27=A0am, "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> "A pint's a pound the world around."
>
> Now I ask you, which is more practical for your average woodworker?

I'd rather have the pint.

R

On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 10:13:50 -0400, "Pin" <[email protected]> wrote:

>What is a.b.p.woodworking or a.b.o.woodworking? I look for binaries groups
>but see none

alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking

You don't need math AT ALL to get evenly spaced marks. Get some elastic tap=
e from a sewing center. Mark it every two inches. Put one of the marks wher=
e you want the first hole to be. Stretch it to get the desired number of ho=
les with the last hole being where you want the last hole to be.=20
Done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DWtlPfXVjWKw

On Aug 20, 8:02=A0pm, whit3rd <[email protected]> wrote:
It's the compass-and-straightedge method

I recall reading somewhere that you could accomplish this task w/o the
math. It involved drawing a line diagonally through the rectangular
area intended to receive the holes. It was explaining, as I recall,
how to evenly space shelf support pin holes on the interior sides of a
bookshelf.

As I recall. you measured the resulting line and divided it in half at
the middle, then repeated this with the resulting segments on either
side (marking the "center points" as you went along. Then, taking a
square to the edge of the board and through each point along the
diagonal line, made a hash mark at the center of the board. Each of
these would, then be the center of your evenly-spaced holes.

Anyone know of something like this (recalling it from distant memory).

if you are just trying to "do it", then here is a very easy way...

mark your left starting edge and right starting edge, then lay a ruler
diagonal from the left edge to the right edge in such a way that the
whole numbers (1,2,3.. ) line up perfectly and divisible by whatever
spacing you want.

for example -- say you have a board that is 9.939 (the point being, it
does not matter) and you want to come in .5" from the left and .5"
from the right -- mark those left and right margins on the board. now
say you want to divide that space by 5. so you have 9.939 -1 or
8.939 of material to divide. take a ruler and place the "0" on the
left margin that you marked and just let the right side of the ruler
come down diagonally to align the 10" measurement on the ruler to the
right side margin. the ruler will now be at some angle -- does not
matter what. simple mark the 2", 4", 6", and 8" markings of the ruler
onto the material. you have just equally spaced the material between
your left and right margin into 5 equal parts. If you wanted to make
it 6 equal parts then bring the 12" ruler marking down to the right
margin line. now mark the material at 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10 -- giving
you 6 equal parts. hopefully you get the idea. you can use
whatever ruler markings you want -- 1,2,3,4 or 2,4,6,8, etc or 1.5,
3, 4.5, 6, etc so long as you use the same increment and the ruler is
on some (any) diagonal (must be diagonal -- straight across does not
work). now center up a hole on those lines and they will be
perfectly aligned. the key with circles is to work off of the center
points whenever possible.

good luck -- credit for this goes to some article i've read in the
last few months -- dont recall where -- absolutely brilliant though.

On Fri, 26 Aug 2011 15:59:06 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Swingman wrote:
>> On 8/24/2011 9:19 PM, Bill wrote:
>>
>>>> There are lots of ways to solve this long standing problem, as this
>>>> thread has shown. You only NEED one of them.
>>>
>>> "Give me a fish and I eat for a day, Teach me to fish and..."
>>
>> Teach me to code fractal geometry and ...
>>
>
>
>I happend to catch part of an interesting show on PBS last night which
>provided a lot of evidence to support how *fractals* are related to
>nature. If you think about it, the common tree has some fractal-like
>aspects for instance. That may just be the tip of the iceberg (another
>fractal?)
>
>Of course coding fractals is probably remarkably-easy using recursion,
>as long as you can deal with overflow of the run-time stack! : )
>It would be analogous to one of the fastest sorting methods, MergeSort,
>which takes about 3 lines of code (in some sense).
>
>Maybe you saw the same show?
>
>So the statement, "Teach me to code fractal geometry and ..." --may
>merit some surprisingly-strong conclusions. Of course, you probably
>already realized this.
>
>In the meantime, I still have my fish. BTW, as was written by one of my
>favorite authors of my teens and twenties, Patrick McManus, "Never sniff
>a gift fish!". Here is an excerpt taken from his easy to locate website:
>
>"When I was a boy, catching worms was more of a challenge than catching
>fish. Some of our worms were bigger than most of our fish. We bragged
>about big worms we had dug. We lied about bigger worms we hadn't dug. We
>were worm snobs. Artificial flies were for sissies."
>~ Patrick F. McManus in The Night the Bear Ate Goombaw
>
>He's the only author who has been successful in making me laugh out
>loud, over and over. In junior high school a gal sitting next to me
>asked, "Is it really THAT funny", to which I proudly replied, "YES!". : )

You haven't read _The Lust Lizard of Melancholy Cove_ (or any book by
Christopher Moore) yet, have you?

Exceedingly highly recommended.

_Coyote Blue and _Island of the Sequined Love Nun_ are both excellent,
too. Cargo Cults, anyone?


Want another laugh? This hardcover book is on sale for only
$21,963.61
+ $3.99shipping
Seller: gb_book
Seller Rating:96% positive over the past 12 months. (1,686 total
ratings)
In Stock. Ships from CA, United States. Expedited shipping available.
Domestic shipping rates and return policy.
New, in perfect condition (It damned well better be for that price!)
_Get Your House Right_

--
Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens.
-- Jimi Hendrix

Give a man a match and he will keep himself warm for the day. Light a man on
fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life!

1--------------
"Bill" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
What's a matta, fish ain't good enough for you?

2----------
Swingman wrote:
Teach me to code fractal geometry and ...

3------------
On 8/24/2011 9:19 PM, Bill wrote:
"Give me a fish and I eat for a day, Teach me to fish and..."

On Wed, 24 Aug 2011 22:26:42 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Bill wrote:
>> Eric wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "Jack Stein" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> On 8/24/2011 2:10 AM, Bill wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/21/2011 10:39 AM, Twayne wrote:
>>>>> On 8/23/2011 6:08 PM, Jack Stein wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> Just about any free CAD 2D program will do that for you including
>>>>>> Sketch-it or whatever it's called.
>>>
>>>>>> It's called Sketchup and I'm surprised Swing and Leon didn't
>>>>>> mention it.
>>>
>>>> I haven't read all of the messages before this one, so please
>>>> excuse me if this has been suggested. But why not build a *paper
>>>> model* (you don't need high-power computer software for this
>>>> problem).
>>>
>>> There are lots of ways to solve this long standing problem, as this
>>> thread has shown. You only NEED one of them.
>>
>> "Give me a fish and I eat for a day, Teach me to fish and..."
>
>No - it goes like this... Light a fire for a man and you keep him warm for
>a day. Light a man on fire and you keep him warm for life...

Ewwwwwww! You're sick, perverted, and twisted.
No wonder we get along.

--
Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens.
-- Jimi Hendrix

On Tue, 23 Aug 2011 08:02:29 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 8/22/2011 10:11 PM, Gerald Ross wrote:
>> Paul wrote:
>>> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and I'm trying to
>>> figure
>>> out how to space holes evenly along a center line in an area. Let's say I
>>> have a rectulanglar block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end for a border
>>> and I
>>> want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you figure that? My
>>> daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of those cheap home design
>>> programs. That would be ideal for me. Anyone use one of those programs
>>> that
>>> knows if they can be used for that? Thanks.
>>>
>> Growing up on the farm we only had a two-holer, but my grand-dad had a
>> three-holer with a star cutout in the door. No idea how they figured out
>> how to space the holes.
>>
>
>That was a damn sight easier to figure out ... just mark the profile of
>the biggest ass on a board, add two more just like it using the Sears
>catalog as a spacer.

Lengthwise for spacing, widthwise for use, right?

--
It is characteristic of all deep human problems that they are
not to be approached without some humor and some bewilderment.
-- Freeman Dyson

On 8/21/2011 6:40 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 8/20/2011 5:14 PM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 8/20/2011 4:55 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 8/20/2011 4:42 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 8/20/2011 12:46 PM, Paul wrote:
>>>>> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and I'm trying to
>>>>> figure out how to space holes evenly along a center line in an area.
>>>>> Let's say I have a rectulanglar block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end
>>>>> for a border and I want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you
>>>>> figure
>>>>> that? My daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of those cheap
>>>>> home
>>>>> design programs. That would be ideal for me. Anyone use one of those
>>>>> programs that knows if they can be used for that? Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Start first hole center 29/32" from the end. Center each of the
>>>> remaining hole 25/32" from the first hole center.
>>>
>>>
>>> See pdf in a.b.p.wppdwprking hole spacing.
>>
>> That's the same thing my spreadsheet came up with a couple of hours ago,
>> in about 1/10 and 1/2 seconds. LOL
>>
>> The question remains ... is it really what the OP is asking for?
>>
>> He could want the edge of the holes 1/4" from the edge of the 6" board.
>>
>
> Spread sheet! I dont need no stinking Spread sheet. LOL
> I took 6" -1/2" for both borders - 4 1/2" for the holes and ended up
> with 1. Divided 1 by the number of spaces, 7, and got .014285" for the
> spaces, then I drew it. '~0

Except that it's .140xxx". LOL

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 8/20/2011 12:46 PM, Paul wrote:
> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and I'm trying to
> figure out how to space holes evenly along a center line in an area.
> Let's say I have a rectulanglar block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end
> for a border and I want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you figure
> that? My daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of those cheap home
> design programs. That would be ideal for me. Anyone use one of those
> programs that knows if they can be used for that? Thanks.

"Evenly spaced" how, precisely?

6"-2*(1/4") - 6*(3/4") --> only 5.5"-4.5" = 1" total space left between
holes...is that what you really intend?

An even number evenly spaced would be half the distance from the middle
to each of the first; and odd number would have the midpoint of one in
the middle of the length.

It's not difficult but need more definition of the actual layout desired
methinks; this doesn't sound like a useful arrangement even having no
clue what the application is...

--

Paul wrote:
> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and I'm trying to
> figure out how to space holes evenly along a center line in an area.
> Let's say I have a rectulanglar block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end
> for a border and I want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you
> figure that? My daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of those
> cheap home design programs. That would be ideal for me. Anyone use
> one of those programs that knows if they can be used for that? Thanks.

Overkill. Easy if you just draw 6 holes on a piece of paper, just basic
math.

6 holes = 7 non-hole spaces needed

6" - (1/4 + 1/4) = 5 1/2" for holes after accounting for 2 outside non-hole
spaces

6 * 3/4 = 18/4 = 4 1/2" of space occupied by holes

5 1/2 - 4 1/2 = 1" of non-hole space of the 6 holes

1"/ 5 remaining non-hole spaces = 1/5 inch between holes.

So...

1. Draw a horizontal line

2. Mark a hole center at 1/4 + (3/4/2) which = 5/8

3. Mark additional centers at 3/4 + 1/5 from preceding center mark

4. Drill holes

Note: with dimensions like that it is unlikely you will wind up with 1/4" as
a border for the last hole.



--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

In article <[email protected]>, "Paul" <[email protected]> wrote:
>My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and I'm trying to figure
>out how to space holes evenly along a center line in an area. Let's say I
>have a rectulanglar block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end for a border and I
>want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you figure that? My
>daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of those cheap home design
>programs. That would be ideal for me. Anyone use one of those programs that
>knows if they can be used for that? Thanks.

Well, this *is* basic math: all you need is simple arithmetic (addition,
subtraction, multiplication, and division). What complicates this one is the
use of a measuring system that's approximately a thousand years old.

You have a total of 6" less two 1/4" borders = 5 1/2" to put the holes in.

Six 3/4" holes take up 6 * 3/4" = 4 1/2" of that 5 1/2", leaving 1" for spaces
between the holes.

Since there are 6 holes, there will be 5 spaces between them. You have 1"
total to make 5 spaces, so each space will be 1/5".

The distance between the centers of the holes will be 3/4" (the width of the
hole) plus 1/5" (the spacing between holes) -- this will be difficult to
measure with tapes or rules marked in inches.

I suggest you choose one of the two options below instead.

Option 1
-----------
Increase the size of the borders by 1/32" to 9/32". This will leave you 5
7/16" to put 4 1/2" worth of holes in, leaving 15/16" to divide among five
spaces between holes.

15/16" divided among five spaces = 3/16" per space -- and *that* you *can*
measure easily. This gives you a distance between centers of 3/4" + 3/16" =
15/16".

So mark the center of the first hole at 9/32" (the width of the border) plus
3/8" (*half* the width of the hole) = 21/32" in from one end. (3/8 = 6/16 =
12/32; 9/32 + 12/32 = 21/32)

Subsequent holes are centered every 15/16" from there:
21/32 + 15/16 = 21/32 + 30/32 = 51/32 = 1 29/32
1 19/32 + 15/16 = 1 19/32 + 30/32 = 1 49/32 = 2 27/32
2 27/32 + 15/16 = 2 27/32 + 30/32 = 2 57/32 = 3 25/32
3 25/32 + 15/16 = 3 25/32 + 30/32 = 3 55/32 = 4 23/32
4 23/32 + 15/16 = 4 23/32 + 30/32 = 4 53/32 = 5 21/32

Option 2
----------

Redo everything in metric. It's SO much easier.

A number of years ago, I was in Toronto on business. Having utterly failed in
my attempts to find a metric tape measure at home, I asked one of the guys I
was working with where I could find a hardware store. He wondered why; I told
him -- and he asked in honest bewilderment what on earth an American would
want with a metric tape measure. My answer was that I'm a woodworker, and
solving problems such as this is FAR easier with measurements in millimeters,
rather than fractional inches -- as you're about to see, too.

It's much easier to find metric tapes in American hardware stores now than it
was in the 1980s. So go buy yourself a tape measure that has dual scales
(inches and millimeters). That will make it easy to see the relationships
between the two systems.

Then remeasure. You will find that:
- your block is 152mm long.
- you want a 6mm border at each end.
- you want to evenly space six 19mm holes.

152mm less two 6mm borders leaves (152mm - 6mm - 6mm) = 140mm.

Six 19mm holes occupy 6 * 19mm = 114mm

You have (140mm - 114mm) = 26mm available for the five spaces between the six
holes, so there will be (26mm / 5) = 5.2mm between each hole. Ignore the
point-two millimeters; you can't measure that fine anyway.

The holes will be centered every (19mm + 5mm) = 24mm.

The first hole should be a distance of 6mm (the width of the border) plus
9.5mm (half the width of the hole -- round it off to 10mm) = 16mm in from one
end of the board.

Subsequent holes are centered every 24mm after that:
16mm + 24mm = 40mm
40mm + 24mm = 64mm
64mm + 24mm = 88mm
88mm + 24mm = 112mm
112mm + 24mm = 136mm
And looky there: the last hole is (152mm - 136mm) = 16mm in from the end, same
as the first one.

Isn't that a lot simpler?

In article <[email protected]>, willshak <[email protected]> wrote:
>dadiOH wrote the following:
>> Paul wrote:
>>> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and I'm trying to
>>> figure out how to space holes evenly along a center line in an area.
>>> Let's say I have a rectulanglar block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end
>>> for a border and I want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you
>>> figure that? My daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of those
>>> cheap home design programs. That would be ideal for me. Anyone use
>>> one of those programs that knows if they can be used for that? Thanks.
>>
>> Overkill. Easy if you just draw 6 holes on a piece of paper, just basic
>> math.
>>
>> 6 holes = 7 non-hole spaces needed
>>
>> 6" - (1/4 + 1/4) = 5 1/2" for holes after accounting for 2 outside non-hole
>> spaces
>>
>> 6 * 3/4 = 18/4 = 4 1/2" of space occupied by holes
>>
>> 5 1/2 - 4 1/2 = 1" of non-hole space of the 6 holes
>>
>> 1"/ 5 remaining non-hole spaces = 1/5 inch between holes.
>>
>> So...
>>
>> 1. Draw a horizontal line
>>
>> 2. Mark a hole center at 1/4 + (3/4/2) which = 5/8
>>
>> 3. Mark additional centers at 3/4 + 1/5 from preceding center mark
>>
>> 4. Drill holes
>>
>> Note: with dimensions like that it is unlikely you will wind up with 1/4" as
>> a border for the last hole.
>>
>I hate math. :-)
>
The proper conclusion to draw from the above is "I hate Imperial
measurements." This problem is absolutely trivial with metric measurements
(see my other post in this thread).

Doug Miller wrote:

> Then remeasure. You will find that:
> - your block is 152mm long.

> - you want a 6mm border at each end.

No he doesn't, he wants 1/4" and 6mm doesn't equal that. Close but no
cigar, so much for metric unless you can measure 6.35mm on that tape :)

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

In article <[email protected]>, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>
>> Then remeasure. You will find that:
>> - your block is 152mm long.
>
>> - you want a 6mm border at each end.
>
>No he doesn't, he wants 1/4" and 6mm doesn't equal that. Close but no
>cigar, so much for metric unless you can measure 6.35mm on that tape :)

Do you *really* think that 0.35 millimeters (less than 14 thousandths of an
inch) is going to be noticeable? Or are you just trying to be argumentative?

Had enough of that from SWMBO this past week, don't need it from you too.

Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, "dadiOH"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Doug Miller wrote:
>>
>>> Then remeasure. You will find that:
>>> - your block is 152mm long.
>>
>>> - you want a 6mm border at each end.
>>
>> No he doesn't, he wants 1/4" and 6mm doesn't equal that. Close but
>> no cigar, so much for metric unless you can measure 6.35mm on that
>> tape :)
>
> Do you *really* think that 0.35 millimeters (less than 14 thousandths
> of an inch) is going to be noticeable? Or are you just trying to be
> argumentative?
>
> Had enough of that from SWMBO this past week, don't need it from you
> too.

Just pointing out that metric isn't the be-all and end-all :)

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 10:46:19 -0700, Paul wrote:

> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and I'm trying to
> figure out how to space holes evenly along a center line in an area.
> Let's say I have a rectulanglar block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end
> for a border and I want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you figure
> that?

No math required - just arithmetic :-).

If you want a 1/4" border at each end, the center of each of the end
holes has to be 5/8" (1/4" + 3/8") from its end.

That leaves 4 3/4" between those 2 holes. In that space you have to put
4 more holes with 5 spaces between holes. 4 3/4" divided by 5 gives a
spacing of just over 15/16" (4.75 / 5 = 0.95).

Since that doesn't come out even, you need to take the slop (1/16") and
redistribute it to each end. So instead of the centers of the end holes
being 5/8" from the end, they should be 21/32" from the end.

Or you could just ignore the slop and have one space be 1/16" wider than
the others :-).

I hope you're aware that those holes are only going to have 3/16" of wood
between each pair.


--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 20:53:17 +0000, Doug Miller wrote:

>>No he doesn't, he wants 1/4" and 6mm doesn't equal that. Close but no
>>cigar, so much for metric unless you can measure 6.35mm on that tape :)
>
> Do you *really* think that 0.35 millimeters (less than 14 thousandths of
> an inch) is going to be noticeable? Or are you just trying to be
> argumentative?

I bought some wood taps and dies once to make some wooden vise screws. I
used a 1" dowel (yes it was 1") for the screw. I cut threads in it and
the hole to receive it with no problem. But the screw wouldn't fit.

Turns out the tap and die were 25mm, not 1" (25.4). So yes, it can make
a difference.

I got a fresh dowel and turned it down to 25mm or a little less.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

In article <[email protected]>, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>, "dadiOH"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Doug Miller wrote:
>>>
>>>> Then remeasure. You will find that:
>>>> - your block is 152mm long.
>>>
>>>> - you want a 6mm border at each end.
>>>
>>> No he doesn't, he wants 1/4" and 6mm doesn't equal that. Close but
>>> no cigar, so much for metric unless you can measure 6.35mm on that
>>> tape :)
>>
>> Do you *really* think that 0.35 millimeters (less than 14 thousandths
>> of an inch) is going to be noticeable? Or are you just trying to be
>> argumentative?
>>
>> Had enough of that from SWMBO this past week, don't need it from you
>> too.
>
>Just pointing out that metric isn't the be-all and end-all :)
>
No, but it sure makes the calculations a LOT easier. Reduces the risk of
error, too, because you're always adding either integers or decimals -- not
mixed fractions.

In article <[email protected]>, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 20:53:17 +0000, Doug Miller wrote:
>
>>>No he doesn't, he wants 1/4" and 6mm doesn't equal that. Close but no
>>>cigar, so much for metric unless you can measure 6.35mm on that tape :)
>>
>> Do you *really* think that 0.35 millimeters (less than 14 thousandths of
>> an inch) is going to be noticeable? Or are you just trying to be
>> argumentative?
>
>I bought some wood taps and dies once to make some wooden vise screws. I
>used a 1" dowel (yes it was 1") for the screw. I cut threads in it and
>the hole to receive it with no problem. But the screw wouldn't fit.
>
>Turns out the tap and die were 25mm, not 1" (25.4). So yes, it can make
>a difference.
>
>I got a fresh dowel and turned it down to 25mm or a little less.
>
Totally different context. When you're talking about fitting a shaft into a
hole, tolerances of 0.005" or less can be critical. When you're talking about
a border around something, the difference between 1/4" and 6mm is unlikely to
be important to anyone, or indeed even noticeable.

"Leon" <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 8/20/2011 5:14 PM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 8/20/2011 4:55 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 8/20/2011 4:42 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 8/20/2011 12:46 PM, Paul wrote:
>>>>> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and I'm trying to
>>>>> figure out how to space holes evenly along a center line in an area.
>>>>> Let's say I have a rectulanglar block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end
>>>>> for a border and I want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you
>>>>> figure
>>>>> that? My daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of those cheap
>>>>> home
>>>>> design programs. That would be ideal for me. Anyone use one of those
>>>>> programs that knows if they can be used for that? Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Start first hole center 29/32" from the end. Center each of the
>>>> remaining hole 25/32" from the first hole center.
>>>
>>>
>>> See pdf in a.b.p.wppdwprking hole spacing.
>>
>> That's the same thing my spreadsheet came up with a couple of hours ago,
>> in about 1/10 and 1/2 seconds. LOL
>>
>> The question remains ... is it really what the OP is asking for?
>>
>> He could want the edge of the holes 1/4" from the edge of the 6" board.
>>
>
> Spread sheet! I dont need no stinking Spread sheet. LOL
> I took 6" -1/2" for both borders - 4 1/2" for the holes and ended up with
> 1. Divided 1 by the number of spaces, 7, and got .014285" for the spaces,
> then I drew it. '~0
>
6" - 1/2" = 5.50" /7 = .7857 inch = 1.9956 cm so 2 cm spacing then drill
each hole.

http://www.seoconsultants.com/charts/inches-decimal/ or 25/32 =
.78125 closest to .7857

Pin

"Leon" <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 8/20/2011 4:42 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 8/20/2011 12:46 PM, Paul wrote:
>>> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and I'm trying to
>>> figure out how to space holes evenly along a center line in an area.
>>> Let's say I have a rectulanglar block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end
>>> for a border and I want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you figure
>>> that? My daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of those cheap home
>>> design programs. That would be ideal for me. Anyone use one of those
>>> programs that knows if they can be used for that? Thanks.
>>>
>>
>> Start first hole center 29/32" from the end. Center each of the
>> remaining hole 25/32" from the first hole center.
>
>
> See pdf in a.b.p.wppdwprking hole spacing.

What is a.b.p.woodworking or a.b.o.woodworking? I look for binaries groups
but see none

Pin

"Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 10:13:50 -0400, "Pin" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>What is a.b.p.woodworking or a.b.o.woodworking? I look for binaries groups
>>but see none
>
> alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking

Thank you

In news:[email protected],
Paul <[email protected]> typed:
> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and
> I'm trying to figure out how to space holes evenly along
> a center line in an area. Let's say I have a rectulanglar
> block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end for a border and I
> want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you figure
> that? My daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of
> those cheap home design programs. That would be ideal for
> me. Anyone use one of those programs that knows if they
> can be used for that? Thanks.

Just about any free CAD 2D program will do that for you including Sketch-it
or whatever it's called.

HTH,

Twayne`

In article <[email protected]>, "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>, "dadiOH"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Doug Miller wrote:
>>>> In article <[email protected]>, "dadiOH"
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> Doug Miller wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Then remeasure. You will find that:
>>>>>> - your block is 152mm long.
>>>>>
>>>>>> - you want a 6mm border at each end.
>>>>>
>>>>> No he doesn't, he wants 1/4" and 6mm doesn't equal that. Close but
>>>>> no cigar, so much for metric unless you can measure 6.35mm on that
>>>>> tape :)
>>>>
>>>> Do you *really* think that 0.35 millimeters (less than 14
>>>> thousandths of an inch) is going to be noticeable? Or are you just
>>>> trying to be argumentative?
>>>>
>>>> Had enough of that from SWMBO this past week, don't need it from you
>>>> too.
>>>
>>> Just pointing out that metric isn't the be-all and end-all :)
>>>
>> No, but it sure makes the calculations a LOT easier. Reduces the risk
>> of error, too, because you're always adding either integers or
>> decimals -- not mixed fractions.
>
>Sure. Tell that to the group that engineered the Hubble Space Telescope
>where confusion over metric/proper measurements resulting in the launch of
>an almost worthless instrument.

The problem there is clearly not due to the use of the metric system, but to
trying to mix the two.
>
>And consider these two standards:
>
>"Meter = 1/10,000,000 of the distance between the North Pole and the Equator
>measured along the Prime Meridian." (Alternative definition: "1,650,763.73
>wavelengths of the orange-red emission line in the electromagnetic spectrum
>of the krypton-86 atom in a vacuum.")
>
>vs
>
>"A pint's a pound the world around."
>
>Now I ask you, which is more practical for your average woodworker?

Metric.

Try it.

I'm surprised that no one has yet mentioned (unless I missed it) the old
trick of using a ruler, selecting a number of arbitrary evenly spaced
markings corresponding to the number of holes needed, then angling
the ruler diagonally across the workpiece (or on a bench where the
workpiece is laying, if necessary) until lines drawn perpendicular to a line
parallel to the holes match up with the selected ruler marks. No
math or arithmetic necessary. Unfortunately easier shown than explained,
but some older woodworking books have pictures of the technique.





--
Better to be stuck up in a tree than tied to one.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org

"Larry W" <
> wrote in message
> I'm surprised that no one has yet mentioned
> (unless I missed it) the old
> trick of using a ruler, selecting a number of
> arbitrary evenly spaced
> markings corresponding to the number of holes
> needed, then angling
> the ruler diagonally across the workpiece (or on
> a bench where the
> workpiece is laying, if necessary) until lines
> drawn perpendicular to a line
> parallel to the holes match up with the selected
> ruler marks. No
> math or arithmetic necessary. Unfortunately
> easier shown than explained,
> but some older woodworking books have pictures
> of the technique.


This method has been mentioned. The problem is
that even though
the hole centers are spaced equally the spaces
between the holes differs.
i.e. The space between the left border and the
first hole as well as
the space between the last hole and the right
border are twice the
space between the other holes. It's up to the OP
to decide if that is
acceptable.
phil k.

Swingman wrote:
> On 8/22/2011 10:11 PM, Gerald Ross wrote:
>> Paul wrote:
>>> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and I'm trying to
>>> figure
>>> out how to space holes evenly along a center line in an area. Let's
>>> say I
>>> have a rectulanglar block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end for a border
>>> and I
>>> want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you figure that? My
>>> daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of those cheap home design
>>> programs. That would be ideal for me. Anyone use one of those programs
>>> that
>>> knows if they can be used for that? Thanks.
>>>
>> Growing up on the farm we only had a two-holer, but my grand-dad had a
>> three-holer with a star cutout in the door. No idea how they figured out
>> how to space the holes.
>>
>
> That was a damn sight easier to figure out ... just mark the profile of
> the biggest ass on a board, add two more just like it using the Sears
> catalog as a spacer.
>

Gosh, a small-ass could fall through!!! <ewwwwww!>

On 8/21/2011 10:39 AM, Twayne wrote:
> In news:[email protected],
> Paul<[email protected]> typed:
>> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and
>> I'm trying to figure out how to space holes evenly along
>> a center line in an area. Let's say I have a rectulanglar
>> block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end for a border and I
>> want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you figure
>> that? My daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of
>> those cheap home design programs. That would be ideal for
>> me. Anyone use one of those programs that knows if they
>> can be used for that? Thanks.
>
> Just about any free CAD 2D program will do that for you including Sketch-it
> or whatever it's called.

It's called Sketchup and I'm surprised Swing and Leon didn't mention it.

Simply draw a line the distance you want, "select" the line with the
select tool (space bar), right click on the line and choose "divide"
from the resultant pop up window. Move the mouse along the line and it
will be divided into whatever number of divisions you want, and based on
the length units you use(window/model info.) I use 1/16th's. The red
dots show on the line, and the distance between the dots is given.

Once you have the right number of dots, click and it puts invisible
markers (invisible until you roll over them) so you can do whatever you
want with them, or just write down the distance and have at it.

For 6 holes in 6 inches you need 7 segments, and each hole will be
55/64's or 7/8ths. I can't see 64ths so 14/16th work fine for me:-)

The bonus is, since you are in a cad program, you can draw up whatever
you want the holes for, and see what it will look like:-)

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

Leon wrote:
> On 8/23/2011 6:08 PM, Jack Stein wrote:
>> On 8/21/2011 10:39 AM, Twayne wrote:
>>> In news:[email protected],
>>> Paul<[email protected]> typed:
>>>> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and
>>>> I'm trying to figure out how to space holes evenly along
>>>> a center line in an area. Let's say I have a rectulanglar
>>>> block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end for a border and I
>>>> want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you figure
>>>> that? My daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of
>>>> those cheap home design programs. That would be ideal for
>>>> me. Anyone use one of those programs that knows if they
>>>> can be used for that? Thanks.
>>>
>>> Just about any free CAD 2D program will do that for you including
>>> Sketch-it
>>> or whatever it's called.
>>
>> It's called Sketchup and I'm surprised Swing and Leon didn't mention it.
>>
>> Simply draw a line the distance you want, "select" the line with the
>> select tool (space bar), right click on the line and choose "divide"
>> from the resultant pop up window. Move the mouse along the line and it
>> will be divided into whatever number of divisions you want, and based on
>> the length units you use(window/model info.) I use 1/16th's. The red
>> dots show on the line, and the distance between the dots is given.
>>
>> Once you have the right number of dots, click and it puts invisible
>> markers (invisible until you roll over them) so you can do whatever you
>> want with them, or just write down the distance and have at it.
>>
>> For 6 holes in 6 inches you need 7 segments, and each hole will be
>> 55/64's or 7/8ths. I can't see 64ths so 14/16th work fine for me:-)
>
> Might want to reread the specifics, the holes have to be 3/4".
>
I haven't read all of the messages before this one, so please excuse me
if this has been suggested. But why not build a *paper model* (you don't
need high-power computer software for this problem). Cut out a 6" piece
of paper and some circles (use a marker and color them black if it helps
you see them). Then move them around until it looks right to you and
then tape them in place. Then you have a model which you might use in
any number of ways. I think more things have been built working like
this than by designing with cad/cam software.

Bill

On 8/24/2011 12:26 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 8/23/2011 6:08 PM, Jack Stein wrote:
>> On 8/21/2011 10:39 AM, Twayne wrote:
>>> In news:[email protected],
>>> Paul<[email protected]> typed:
>>>> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and
>>>> I'm trying to figure out how to space holes evenly along
>>>> a center line in an area. Let's say I have a rectulanglar
>>>> block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end for a border and I
>>>> want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you figure
>>>> that? My daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of
>>>> those cheap home design programs. That would be ideal for
>>>> me. Anyone use one of those programs that knows if they
>>>> can be used for that? Thanks.
>>>
>>> Just about any free CAD 2D program will do that for you including
>>> Sketch-it
>>> or whatever it's called.
>>
>> It's called Sketchup and I'm surprised Swing and Leon didn't mention it.
>>
>> Simply draw a line the distance you want, "select" the line with the
>> select tool (space bar), right click on the line and choose "divide"
>> from the resultant pop up window. Move the mouse along the line and it
>> will be divided into whatever number of divisions you want, and based on
>> the length units you use(window/model info.) I use 1/16th's. The red
>> dots show on the line, and the distance between the dots is given.
>>
>> Once you have the right number of dots, click and it puts invisible
>> markers (invisible until you roll over them) so you can do whatever you
>> want with them, or just write down the distance and have at it.
>>
>> For 6 holes in 6 inches you need 7 segments, and each hole will be
>> 55/64's or 7/8ths. I can't see 64ths so 14/16th work fine for me:-)
>
> Might want to reread the specifics, the holes have to be 3/4".

Doesn't matter what size the holes are if you want 6 equally spaced
holes in 6 inch length, then the center marks will be the same
regardless of hole size, long as the size fits.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

On 8/24/2011 2:10 AM, Bill wrote:
>>> On 8/21/2011 10:39 AM, Twayne wrote:
>> On 8/23/2011 6:08 PM, Jack Stein wrote:

>>> Just about any free CAD 2D program will do that for you including
>>> Sketch-it or whatever it's called.

>>> It's called Sketchup and I'm surprised Swing and Leon didn't mention it.

> I haven't read all of the messages before this one, so please excuse me
> if this has been suggested. But why not build a *paper model* (you don't
> need high-power computer software for this problem).

There are lots of ways to solve this long standing problem, as this
thread has shown. You only NEED one of them.

> Cut out a 6" piece
> of paper and some circles (use a marker and color them black if it helps
> you see them). Then move them around until it looks right to you and
> then tape them in place. Then you have a model which you might use in
> any number of ways.

This would be inaccurate or laborious or, in my case, both.
Particularly in this example where the spacing between the holes is
small, you better cut out your circles accurately.

> I think more things have been built working like this than by designing with cad/cam software.

The reason cad software was invented was to make doing this stuff both
simple, accurate and visually useful. My "cad" software of choice is
Sketchup, and it of course has a simple tool for the job built in, as I
described.

If you have a PC and do woodwork, Sketchup is free and does have a tool
for this, just as Twayne up there suggested.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

"Jack Stein" wrote in message news:[email protected]...

On 8/24/2011 2:10 AM, Bill wrote:
>>> On 8/21/2011 10:39 AM, Twayne wrote:
>> On 8/23/2011 6:08 PM, Jack Stein wrote:

>>> Just about any free CAD 2D program will do that for you including
>>> Sketch-it or whatever it's called.

>>> It's called Sketchup and I'm surprised Swing and Leon didn't mention it.

> I haven't read all of the messages before this one, so please excuse me
> if this has been suggested. But why not build a *paper model* (you don't
> need high-power computer software for this problem).

There are lots of ways to solve this long standing problem, as this
thread has shown. You only NEED one of them.

> Cut out a 6" piece
> of paper and some circles (use a marker and color them black if it helps
> you see them). Then move them around until it looks right to you and
> then tape them in place. Then you have a model which you might use in
> any number of ways.

This would be inaccurate or laborious or, in my case, both.
Particularly in this example where the spacing between the holes is
small, you better cut out your circles accurately.

> I think more things have been built working like this than by designing
> with cad/cam software.

The reason cad software was invented was to make doing this stuff both
simple, accurate and visually useful. My "cad" software of choice is
Sketchup, and it of course has a simple tool for the job built in, as I
described.

If you have a PC and do woodwork, Sketchup is free and does have a tool
for this, just as Twayne up there suggested.

====================

I would definitely use CAD software (Autosketch) for many layout required
jobs in woodworking but not for this simple example / problem.
Just do it on your calculator and then lay a decent 1/10" scaled ruler down
and mark the hole centers. Or convert as closely as possible to fractional
inches or fudge the borders to make it work out.

Note there are many woodworking calculators that can work in inches and
fractions for you, too.


--

Eric

On 8/24/2011 2:21 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 8/24/2011 1:01 PM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 8/24/2011 12:58 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>
>>> I still think the OP made that absolutely clear.
>> ^
>> DON"T

>> Fuck ... I give up!
>>
> Roger, Woolco, and Out!

Yeah, you guys are out, but now you got me stuck in Sketchup, dividing
up 6", 5 1/2", 5 1/4" and 4 3/4" lines, 2 different ways...

Thanks...

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

Leon wrote:
> On 8/24/2011 1:10 AM, Bill wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>>> On 8/23/2011 6:08 PM, Jack Stein wrote:
>>>> On 8/21/2011 10:39 AM, Twayne wrote:
>>>>> In news:[email protected],
>>>>> Paul<[email protected]> typed:
>>>>>> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and
>>>>>> I'm trying to figure out how to space holes evenly along
>>>>>> a center line in an area. Let's say I have a rectulanglar
>>>>>> block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end for a border and I
>>>>>> want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you figure
>>>>>> that? My daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of
>>>>>> those cheap home design programs. That would be ideal for
>>>>>> me. Anyone use one of those programs that knows if they
>>>>>> can be used for that? Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just about any free CAD 2D program will do that for you including
>>>>> Sketch-it
>>>>> or whatever it's called.
>>>>
>>>> It's called Sketchup and I'm surprised Swing and Leon didn't mention
>>>> it.
>>>>
>>>> Simply draw a line the distance you want, "select" the line with the
>>>> select tool (space bar), right click on the line and choose "divide"
>>>> from the resultant pop up window. Move the mouse along the line and it
>>>> will be divided into whatever number of divisions you want, and
>>>> based on
>>>> the length units you use(window/model info.) I use 1/16th's. The red
>>>> dots show on the line, and the distance between the dots is given.
>>>>
>>>> Once you have the right number of dots, click and it puts invisible
>>>> markers (invisible until you roll over them) so you can do whatever you
>>>> want with them, or just write down the distance and have at it.
>>>>
>>>> For 6 holes in 6 inches you need 7 segments, and each hole will be
>>>> 55/64's or 7/8ths. I can't see 64ths so 14/16th work fine for me:-)
>>>
>>> Might want to reread the specifics, the holes have to be 3/4".
>>>
>> I haven't read all of the messages before this one, so please excuse me
>> if this has been suggested. But why not build a *paper model* (you don't
>> need high-power computer software for this problem). Cut out a 6" piece
>> of paper and some circles (use a marker and color them black if it helps
>> you see them). Then move them around until it looks right to you and
>> then tape them in place. Then you have a model which you might use in
>> any number of ways. I think more things have been built working like
>> this than by designing with cad/cam software.
>>
>> Bill
>
> It would probably be easier to read the OP, It is simple math , no
> computer model needed. I only drew the model to prove the easy math.

Yes, working with fractions and decimal numbers is simple if you already
know how to do it. Personally, I think problems like this are perfect
so someone who wants to hone his or her skills--and I mean by using
pencil and paper. I hope the OP makes up more similar problems to solve
for practice. I am willing to assist if requested.

Eric wrote:
>
>
> "Jack Stein" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> On 8/24/2011 2:10 AM, Bill wrote:
>>>> On 8/21/2011 10:39 AM, Twayne wrote:
>>> On 8/23/2011 6:08 PM, Jack Stein wrote:
>
>>>> Just about any free CAD 2D program will do that for you including
>>>> Sketch-it or whatever it's called.
>
>>>> It's called Sketchup and I'm surprised Swing and Leon didn't mention
>>>> it.
>
>> I haven't read all of the messages before this one, so please excuse me
>> if this has been suggested. But why not build a *paper model* (you don't
>> need high-power computer software for this problem).
>
> There are lots of ways to solve this long standing problem, as this
> thread has shown. You only NEED one of them.

"Give me a fish and I eat for a day, Teach me to fish and..."

Swingman wrote:
> On 8/24/2011 9:19 PM, Bill wrote:
>
>>> There are lots of ways to solve this long standing problem, as this
>>> thread has shown. You only NEED one of them.
>>
>> "Give me a fish and I eat for a day, Teach me to fish and..."
>
> Teach me to code fractal geometry and ...
>

What's a matta, fish ain't good enough for you? ; )

--
Paul
"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>> On 8/23/2011 6:08 PM, Jack Stein wrote:
>>> On 8/21/2011 10:39 AM, Twayne wrote:
>>>> In news:[email protected],
>>>> Paul<[email protected]> typed:
>>>>> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and
>>>>> I'm trying to figure out how to space holes evenly along
>>>>> a center line in an area. Let's say I have a rectulanglar
>>>>> block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end for a border and I
>>>>> want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you figure
>>>>> that? My daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of
>>>>> those cheap home design programs. That would be ideal for
>>>>> me. Anyone use one of those programs that knows if they
>>>>> can be used for that? Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Just about any free CAD 2D program will do that for you including
>>>> Sketch-it
>>>> or whatever it's called.
>>>
>>> It's called Sketchup and I'm surprised Swing and Leon didn't mention it.
>>>
>>> Simply draw a line the distance you want, "select" the line with the
>>> select tool (space bar), right click on the line and choose "divide"
>>> from the resultant pop up window. Move the mouse along the line and it
>>> will be divided into whatever number of divisions you want, and based on
>>> the length units you use(window/model info.) I use 1/16th's. The red
>>> dots show on the line, and the distance between the dots is given.
>>>
>>> Once you have the right number of dots, click and it puts invisible
>>> markers (invisible until you roll over them) so you can do whatever you
>>> want with them, or just write down the distance and have at it.
>>>
>>> For 6 holes in 6 inches you need 7 segments, and each hole will be
>>> 55/64's or 7/8ths. I can't see 64ths so 14/16th work fine for me:-)
>>
>> Might want to reread the specifics, the holes have to be 3/4".
>>
> I haven't read all of the messages before this one, so please excuse me if
> this has been suggested. But why not build a *paper model* (you don't need
> high-power computer software for this problem). Cut out a 6" piece of
> paper and some circles (use a marker and color them black if it helps you
> see them). Then move them around until it looks right to you and then
> tape them in place. Then you have a model which you might use in any
> number of ways. I think more things have been built working like this
> than by designing with cad/cam software.
>
> Bill

This is the way I've been doing it. Most times it's not a big problem, just
wish to learn a faster way. Really would like to learn sketchup. Played with
that for a little bit the other day and got nowhere, course I didn't bother
to read any tutorials.

Paul

Bill wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> On 8/24/2011 1:10 AM, Bill wrote:
>>> Leon wrote:
>>>> On 8/23/2011 6:08 PM, Jack Stein wrote:
>>>>> On 8/21/2011 10:39 AM, Twayne wrote:
>>>>>> In news:[email protected],
>>>>>> Paul<[email protected]> typed:
>>>>>>> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and
>>>>>>> I'm trying to figure out how to space holes evenly along
>>>>>>> a center line in an area. Let's say I have a rectulanglar
>>>>>>> block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end for a border and I
>>>>>>> want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you figure
>>>>>>> that? My daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of
>>>>>>> those cheap home design programs. That would be ideal for
>>>>>>> me. Anyone use one of those programs that knows if they
>>>>>>> can be used for that? Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just about any free CAD 2D program will do that for you including
>>>>>> Sketch-it
>>>>>> or whatever it's called.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's called Sketchup and I'm surprised Swing and Leon didn't mention
>>>>> it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Simply draw a line the distance you want, "select" the line with the
>>>>> select tool (space bar), right click on the line and choose "divide"
>>>>> from the resultant pop up window. Move the mouse along the line and it
>>>>> will be divided into whatever number of divisions you want, and
>>>>> based on
>>>>> the length units you use(window/model info.) I use 1/16th's. The red
>>>>> dots show on the line, and the distance between the dots is given.
>>>>>
>>>>> Once you have the right number of dots, click and it puts invisible
>>>>> markers (invisible until you roll over them) so you can do whatever
>>>>> you
>>>>> want with them, or just write down the distance and have at it.
>>>>>
>>>>> For 6 holes in 6 inches you need 7 segments, and each hole will be
>>>>> 55/64's or 7/8ths. I can't see 64ths so 14/16th work fine for me:-)
>>>>
>>>> Might want to reread the specifics, the holes have to be 3/4".
>>>>
>>> I haven't read all of the messages before this one, so please excuse me
>>> if this has been suggested. But why not build a *paper model* (you don't
>>> need high-power computer software for this problem). Cut out a 6" piece
>>> of paper and some circles (use a marker and color them black if it helps
>>> you see them). Then move them around until it looks right to you and
>>> then tape them in place. Then you have a model which you might use in
>>> any number of ways. I think more things have been built working like
>>> this than by designing with cad/cam software.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>
>> It would probably be easier to read the OP, It is simple math , no
>> computer model needed. I only drew the model to prove the easy math.
>
> Yes, working with fractions and decimal numbers is simple if you already
> know how to do it. Personally, I think problems like this are perfect so
> someone who wants to hone his or her skills--and I mean by using pencil
> and paper.

I apologize for being vague above. By "pencil and paper" I meant
arithmetic along with whatever else one needs to abstract/extract from a
picture or diagram. Most of the time, of course, one has to draw his or
her own diagram--and that may be the hardest part. I believe that
learning to work problems like the one featured in this thread is
valuable and will help take one's woodworking to another level.
Practicing is not a waste of time at all. Even if this problem never
shows up again, I promise that another one, having the same flavor, is
just around the corner!




I hope the OP makes up more similar problems to solve for
> practice. I am willing to assist if requested.