Well, saturday AM arrives and the truck rolls up with my new Unisaw,
Unifence, and a Unigaurd. All the boxes look in good shape, except
the mobile base box...but it appears fine after close inspection. I
spend the day assembling the mobile base, getting two cast wings
level, attaching the fence, and the Uniguard. My neighbor stops by
and helps me put the finishing touches on. We go to place the blade
insert in and note it doesn't fit. The blade appears to be in the
way. Well..maybe they just didn't align it well at the factory. So I
take a look to figure out how to adjust the blade alignment, and
notice the front trunnion is broken. Uggh.
I call up Woodworkers Supply where the saw was ordered. The customer
service guy doesn't really seem to know what to do in this case, so he
notes it in my order and I'll call back monday to see what will happen
after he talks to his manager. I really hope I don't have to install
the front trunnion myself, and I'm not looking forward to
dissassembling a days worth of work either. Uggh.
I'll keep everyone posted on the outcome. Wish me luck.
cb
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:s7Qpc.27617
> It might still be a shipping problem. If the packaging of the product is
> different enough from other brands, then that's still shipping. There's
good
> ways and there's less beneficial ways to attach products to wooden
palettes.
> Even the way a palette is constructed could be responsible. Even if it is
a
> quality control problem, it must be a nagging concern for Delta.
Packaging is part of the design so It is still a design problem; either in
the trunion or the packaging. Something has to be changed. The design must
take into consideration shipping. I have not done it for a few years, but
I've designed protective packaging for shipping containers. Most were
designed to meet National Safe Transit Association standards. Other were
designed for real life circumstances.
I've seen electronic units (similar to computers) that worked well, looked
good, functioned properly, but could not take handling to the company's own
shipping department let alone actually get out the door. Dumb designs that
save $1.20 and 45 seconds on the assembly line, but let a 20 pound power
supply crash into a $5000 circuit board. We could design a package to handle
most any problem, but it is often far cheaper to fix the product or add a
couple of screws.
Delta trunions have been controversial for the three or so years I've been
hanging around this newsgroup. It is not a once in a lifetime rarity, it
happens far too often. The problem should have been resolved by now.
Change the design of the trunion, change the design of the way it is
mounted, or use packaging with proper energy absorption. By now, someone
should have determined what makes them break. Make the casting heavier, a
different material, different heat treating, different bolts, different
torque.
Facilities are readily available for package testing.. These include drop
tests, inclined plane, vibration to simulate riding in a trailer. Major
companies that sell packaging have some or all of the equipment to do the
testing. UPS maintains a couple of testing laboratories and will certify
you packing for UPS shipment (Unisaws too heavy and large though),
International Paper, Sealed Air Corp., and many others have certified labs.
You are correct about pallets. You can buy them for $4, $40, $140 or more.
Yes, $140 for a pallet is cheap to keep a $20,000 medical device from
getting damaged in transit.
Ed
[email protected]
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
Very true but if it arrives at the dealer broken, it's his problem. If it
arrives at your shop and it's broken, it's yours.
"RKON" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:tsHpc.51740$iy5.1787@okepread05...
> I do not see your logic. A item is shipped to the dealer the same method
it
> is shipped to the home. No?
> I think you ran into BAD luck.
>
> Rich
>
>
That's how my Griz came and am just now realizing that it not being broken
is something that I shouldn't take for granted. It arrived perfectly - much
like I'm sure it looked on the warehouse floor.
Don
"Unisaw A100" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> cb wrote:
> >A large foam wedge was placed under the motor for support during
> >transit. The foam was loose in the bottom of my saw. That should
> >have been my first clue to look for a broken trunnion.
>
>
> Used to be, at least from the 30's up until the 70's, Delta
> shipped the Unisaw with the motor in it's own carton. Later
> they switched to shipping it with a bent metal bracket that
> secured the motor through one of the table wing holes.
>
>
>
> Foam.
>
>
>
> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
> (tm BitchSlapBobZajicek)
>
> UA100, who regularly gets asked, "what are the significant
> differences between the first Unisaws and the Unisaws sold
> today"...
Well, I contacted Woodworker's Supply this morning and they are
shipping a new unisaw out. The broken one will be exchanged when the
new one arrives.
To anyone that has concerns about ordering from Woodworker's Supply,
they are top notch in my book. I left a message, and they promptly
called me back, and performed an exchange without a hassle.
I looked at getting a saw locally, but Woodworker's Supply had a new
customer 10% off sale, on top of no tax, no shipping charge and Unisaw
prices already below that of any local dealer. Despite the delay and
minor aggravation, it should be worth it.
Woodworker's Supply cutomer service folks said the Unisaws are shipped
with a 'tilt indicator' ....a small plastic mechanism which turns red
if the saw has been tipped. My saw did not have one, or it was
removed. I'll make sure the next saw has one.
A large foam wedge was placed under the motor for support during
transit. The foam was loose in the bottom of my saw. That should
have been my first clue to look for a broken trunnion.
CB
B a r r y <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On Mon, 24 May 2004 16:23:33 +0100, LRod
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
Glad yours arrived intact!
I was the original poster...and Woodworker's Supply had my replacement
saw promply delivered on friday. They could have had it delivered
sooner, but I was unavailable to accept delivery on wen or thur. So
this is a big thumbs up and thanks to the folks at WoodWorkers
Supply...I called about the broken trunnion on monday, and I could
have taken its replacement on wen. Fast service! They will certainly
be getting some of my business in the future.
No problems with the machine this time..there were many "do not drop"
stickers and 2 different types of tilt indicators on the box...both
showed a pleasant journey.
cb
>So
>this is a big thumbs up and thanks to the folks at WoodWorkers
>Supply...
I think we can say this in general, about woodworking anyway. Most woodworkers
tend to be nice folks (the exceptions certainly stick out more than in life in
general); and I think most of the vendors we deal with are really good.
The large mail order houses have given good service, the more botique places,
be they Lee Valley (not so small), Lie NIelsen, Highland, all have been started
by people doing what they seem to enjoy doing. And they deal with people (us)
who like using the stuff they make.
I'm glad your Unisaw is now up and running (and I've had good experiences from
the Woodworker's Supply folks too). Enjoy the Unisaw. I've had mine for 10
years--although now I have to sell it. I've just ordered an upgrade-A Felder
That's quite an upgrade.... this was sort of a stealth
gloat was it not ???
DarylRos wrote:
>
> I'm glad your Unisaw is now up and running (and I've had good experiences from
> the Woodworker's Supply folks too). Enjoy the Unisaw. I've had mine for 10
> years--although now I have to sell it. I've just ordered an upgrade-A Felder
>
In rec.woodworking
[email protected] (cb) wrote:
>way. Well..maybe they just didn't align it well at the factory. So I
>take a look to figure out how to adjust the blade alignment, and
>notice the front trunnion is broken. Uggh.
Amazing! I thought this could only happen with Grizzly products, not a
Unisaw.
You should also contact the trucking company, because if it is their fault
you have a limited amount of time to claim "hidden damages", visible damages
must be reported on the delivery slip when you sign for the item. "Hidden
damages" can be claimed if reported within a fixed number of days. Cover
yourself, and phone it in on Monday.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sorry to hear about you broken Unisaw CB. But...seems this happens way
too
> often in particular with Unisaws. I don't believe it is all the freight
> company's fault since the Unisaw is about the only one that gets shipped
> with broken trunions.
>
>
>
[email protected] (cb) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Well, saturday AM arrives and the truck rolls up with my new Unisaw,
> Unifence, and a Unigaurd. All the boxes look in good shape, except
> the mobile base box...but it appears fine after close inspection. I
> spend the day assembling the mobile base, getting two cast wings
> level, attaching the fence, and the Uniguard. My neighbor stops by
> and helps me put the finishing touches on. We go to place the blade
> insert in and note it doesn't fit. The blade appears to be in the
> way. Well..maybe they just didn't align it well at the factory. So I
> take a look to figure out how to adjust the blade alignment, and
> notice the front trunnion is broken. Uggh.
>
> I call up Woodworkers Supply where the saw was ordered. The customer
> service guy doesn't really seem to know what to do in this case, so he
> notes it in my order and I'll call back monday to see what will happen
> after he talks to his manager. I really hope I don't have to install
> the front trunnion myself, and I'm not looking forward to
> dissassembling a days worth of work either. Uggh.
>
Call Delta yourself, have pertinent information at hand. You will need
serial # copy of receipt etc. Delta will send a technician to your
home ,usually takes about two weeks. Less time if the tech is already
in your area.They will do all the work, you do not have to be there if
your wife or someone else is there to let them in. Your problem is not
unique, not a manufacturing problem , a transportaion problem instead.
> I'll keep everyone posted on the outcome. Wish me luck.
>
> cb
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> No, it is not a shipping problem.
Exactly, you don't hear of other brand saws with broken trunnions.
"LRod" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I hope your experience is unique, because
Unique to Unisaw owners unfortunately. You have now heard about another
Unisaw with a broken trunion this month, chances are that yours will arrive
just fine.
>I just ordered that saw
> (except with the Bies) from WWS, and the freight company says it'll be
> here Thursday. I've heard about Uni trunnions being broken in
> shipment, so that's the first thing I'm going to check.
I'd check before it is unloaded from the truck. It could save you some time
if the unfortunate has happened.
cb wrote:
>I call up Woodworkers Supply where the saw was ordered. The customer
>service guy doesn't really seem to know what to do in this case,
white space added for emphasis...
Is/was this guy new to the job? I mean, I keep hearing
about Unisaws being delivered with broke trunnions. Has
Woodworker's Supply been spared one these (doubtful onna
'count of the size of the company) deliveries?
>I really hope I don't have to install the front trunnion myself,
Let's put it this way. You just spent $XXXX on a Unisaw.
It hasn't been powered up. Sounds like it's never had a
blade. It's not safe to run. It's a liability to the
company that sold it and the company that made it.
Now, did you buy it knowing/expecting it to broken or did
you buy something expecting it to be a saw?
UA100, who is wondering, why do I keep hearing about broke
trunnions on Unisaws???
[email protected] (cb) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Well, saturday AM arrives and the truck rolls up with my new Unisaw,
> Unifence, and a Unigaurd. All the boxes look in good shape, except
> the mobile base box...but it appears fine after close inspection. I
> spend the day assembling the mobile base, getting two cast wings
> level, attaching the fence, and the Uniguard. My neighbor stops by
> and helps me put the finishing touches on. We go to place the blade
> insert in and note it doesn't fit. The blade appears to be in the
> way. Well..maybe they just didn't align it well at the factory. So I
> take a look to figure out how to adjust the blade alignment, and
> notice the front trunnion is broken. Uggh.
>
> I call up Woodworkers Supply where the saw was ordered. The customer
> service guy doesn't really seem to know what to do in this case, so he
> notes it in my order and I'll call back monday to see what will happen
> after he talks to his manager. I really hope I don't have to install
> the front trunnion myself, and I'm not looking forward to
> dissassembling a days worth of work either. Uggh.
>
> I'll keep everyone posted on the outcome. Wish me luck.
>
> cb
I am sorry for your trouble, but did you not have a local dealer that
could take care of your needs?
I have sold over 500 unisaws in my career and never had a busted
trunnion. I wonder what is causing this proplem? I know it is a pain
for you, a pain for WWS, and a big pain for Delta. Good luck.
Mike
Having equipment shipped to you is definitely a crap shoot.
Of the 2 large pieces I've received from out of town, 2 of
of 2 were broken: a Powermatic 54a jointer and a router
cabinet (the cabinet bottom was damaged by the inertia of
the cabinet bouncing around on the casters). Both were
replaced without question by the manufacturers. The next
router cabinet was shipped without the wheels and the next
jointer must have received a bit gentler treatment in
transit. All I was out was the set up time (which isn't
exactly inconsequential either!).
dave
LRod wrote:
> On 15 May 2004 18:30:50 -0700, [email protected] (cb) wrote:
>
>
>>Well, saturday AM arrives and the truck rolls up with my new Unisaw,
>>Unifence, and a Unigaurd. All the boxes look in good shape, except
>>the mobile base box...but it appears fine after close inspection. I
>>spend the day assembling the mobile base, getting two cast wings
>>level, attaching the fence, and the Uniguard. My neighbor stops by
>>and helps me put the finishing touches on. We go to place the blade
>>insert in and note it doesn't fit. The blade appears to be in the
>>way. Well..maybe they just didn't align it well at the factory. So I
>>take a look to figure out how to adjust the blade alignment, and
>>notice the front trunnion is broken. Uggh.
>>
>>I call up Woodworkers Supply where the saw was ordered. The customer
>>service guy doesn't really seem to know what to do in this case, so he
>>notes it in my order and I'll call back monday to see what will happen
>>after he talks to his manager. I really hope I don't have to install
>>the front trunnion myself, and I'm not looking forward to
>>dissassembling a days worth of work either. Uggh.
>
>
> I hope your experience is unique, because I just ordered that saw
> (except with the Bies) from WWS, and the freight company says it'll be
> here Thursday. I've heard about Uni trunnions being broken in
> shipment, so that's the first thing I'm going to check.
>
> I ordered a 17-925 drill press from WWS last summer and it showed up
> with a broken casting on the bottom of the column. When I called them
> up they were polite but they told me to call Delta directly. I got a
> very nice lady there and they shipped out a whole new column straight
> away. A year later, I don't even remember the days of frustration that
> I couldn't try out my new tool. You'll have the same experience.
>
> I'm keeping my fingers crossed until Thursday. I hope yours turns out
> okay, too.
>
>
> - -
> LRod
>
> Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
>
> Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
>
> http://www.woodbutcher.net
On 15 May 2004 18:30:50 -0700, [email protected] (cb) wrote:
>I'll keep everyone posted on the outcome. Wish me luck.
No, I'm not the original poster, but I did reply on the thread that I
was awaiting delivery of a Unisaw.
It arrived Thursday the 20th, and the driver ran it right into my
gara^H^H^H shop with the pallet jack. There were a couple of minor
dings in the cardboard of one of the (five) boxes, but no evidence of
outright abuse, unintentional or otherwise.
Having heard of telltales on the container, I looked but found none.
To cut to the chase, assembly went smoothly and I was able to
manhandle the saw off the pallet and onto the mobile base (assembled
previously) single handed without incident.
There was a big block of styrofoam supporting the motor and once I got
the tilt wheel installed and cranked the arbor up, it slid out
revealing no broken parts.
Everything lined up nicely with the extension wing, the rails for the
Bies, etc. Well, the rest of the story is pretty much the same as
anyone else's with a brand new Unisaw, so I won't go any further.
- -
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
I tend to agree. If the trunions are breaking and nothing else is damaged,
it sure sounds like a poorly engineered part.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sorry to hear about you broken Unisaw CB. But...seems this happens way
too
> often in particular with Unisaws. I don't believe it is all the freight
> company's fault since the Unisaw is about the only one that gets shipped
> with broken trunions.
>
>
>
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:s7Qpc.27617.
>
> It might still be a shipping problem. If the packaging of the product is
> different enough from other brands, then that's still shipping.
If the manufacturer cannot build a container as good as the competitions
containers then it is a still considered the manufacturers fault.
>There's good ways and there's less beneficial ways to attach products to
wooden palettes.
> Even the way a palette is constructed could be responsible. Even if it is
a
> quality control problem, it must be a nagging concern for Delta.
For about 4 or 5 years now that I know of Delta has had this problem. I
would not for a moment blame the shipping company for a majority of the
problems. Delta should perhaps pack the product in a container that would
survive being shipped over seas like the competition does and this may solve
the problem. About a year ago Delta indicated that it was the manufacturing
process that was at fault. Maybe not, perhaps substandard packaging.
Just our of curiosity - was there a large solid plastic foam block holding
the motor firmly in place when you went to assemble the saw? Was the motor
resting solidly on this block?
BillyB
PS I am sure that Delta will take care of you - I got a 5HP Platinum Ed. saw
and there were some holes that had not been tapped so I could not install
the fence - the local Delta rep came and tapped them for me.
"cb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Well, saturday AM arrives and the truck rolls up with my new Unisaw,
> Unifence, and a Unigaurd. All the boxes look in good shape, except
> the mobile base box...but it appears fine after close inspection. I
> spend the day assembling the mobile base, getting two cast wings
> level, attaching the fence, and the Uniguard. My neighbor stops by
> and helps me put the finishing touches on. We go to place the blade
> insert in and note it doesn't fit. The blade appears to be in the
> way. Well..maybe they just didn't align it well at the factory. So I
> take a look to figure out how to adjust the blade alignment, and
> notice the front trunnion is broken. Uggh.
>
> I call up Woodworkers Supply where the saw was ordered. The customer
> service guy doesn't really seem to know what to do in this case, so he
> notes it in my order and I'll call back monday to see what will happen
> after he talks to his manager. I really hope I don't have to install
> the front trunnion myself, and I'm not looking forward to
> dissassembling a days worth of work either. Uggh.
>
> I'll keep everyone posted on the outcome. Wish me luck.
>
> cb
>and there were some holes that had not been tapped so I could not install
>the fence - the local Delta rep came and tapped them for me.
You were luckier than I was. My DJ-15 came totally out of whack, and Delta
certainly did not offer to come out; their service dealer refused to make the
drive from the Bronx to Long Island (all of 15 miles). When you call Delta for
help, they decide when they will call you back, so you had better stand by your
machine for a few hours.
Not, Delta went down in my book after that. I understand when things go wrong
or break; a consistent pattern though of screw the customer meant they would
never get my business again. Just FIX the mistakes.
too late; I already answered your previous post where you
refuted my experience. Your change of heart is duly noted. :)
dave
RKON wrote:
> Ahhhh !!! I see said the Blind Man. I never had anything shipped direct
> utter than UPS, Fed Ex. ASSumptions, ASSumptions.
>
> Dave, I stand Corrected !!
>
> Rich
>
> "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>"RKON" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:tsHpc.51740>
>>
>>>I do not see your logic. A item is shipped to the dealer the same method
>>
>>it
>>
>>>is shipped to the home. No?
>>
>>No. Dealers get their heavy machinery usually delivered by tractor trailer
>>and drivers using established loading and unloading procedures. Retail
>>outfits use delivery agents with smaller trucks and much less experienced
>>people. There's a big difference between using a forklift to load and
>
> unload
>
>>something than dragging several hundred pounds of metal onto and off a
>
> lift
>
>>gate.
>>
>>
>>>I think you ran into BAD luck.
>>
>>Maybe, but it sounds like that bad luck is getting pretty common.
>>
>>
>
>
>
"cb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Well, I contacted Woodworker's Supply this morning and they are
> shipping a new unisaw out. The broken one will be exchanged when the
> new one arrives.
>
> To anyone that has concerns about ordering from Woodworker's Supply,
> they are top notch in my book. I left a message, and they promptly
> called me back, and performed an exchange without a hassle.
Please keep us apprised of how well the process of replacement goes.
> PS I am sure that Delta will take care of you - I got a 5HP Platinum Ed.
saw
> and there were some holes that had not been tapped so I could not install
> the fence - the local Delta rep came and tapped them for me.
>
Looks like you had better luck than me. I bought a new Unisaw X5 with a 52"
Biesmeyer 3 weeks ago. The flathead screws that hold the front rail on were
so burred up I could not get a nut on them. I have called Biesmeyer twice
and each time they have been very nice and said they would send me
replacements right away. Well, its been three weeks and the only thing
that's gettin screwed so far is me.
"RKON" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:tsHpc.51740>
> I do not see your logic. A item is shipped to the dealer the same method
it
> is shipped to the home. No?
No. Dealers get their heavy machinery usually delivered by tractor trailer
and drivers using established loading and unloading procedures. Retail
outfits use delivery agents with smaller trucks and much less experienced
people. There's a big difference between using a forklift to load and unload
something than dragging several hundred pounds of metal onto and off a lift
gate.
> I think you ran into BAD luck.
Maybe, but it sounds like that bad luck is getting pretty common.
CB, I feel your pain. Same thing happened to me back in January. My
retailer sent me another saw; I don't know what they worked out with
Delta. You might as well start disassembling and re-crating the saw.
Delta says the front trunnion (next to the handwheel) is not field
replacable. It has to go to a shop. They offered to let me take it
to a local repair facility, but they would have to order the trunnion
and then schedule installation, so I opted for a new saw instead. But
don't despair, it will be worth it. No other tool in my shop gives me
as much pleasure every time I use it as my Unisaw w/Bies. Maybe
that's because I cursed my old saw so long before I replaced it.
DonkeyHody
"Even an old blind hog finds an acorn every now and then."
[email protected] (cb) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Well, saturday AM arrives and the truck rolls up with my new Unisaw,
> Unifence, and a Unigaurd. All the boxes look in good shape, except
> the mobile base box...but it appears fine after close inspection. I
> spend the day assembling the mobile base, getting two cast wings
> level, attaching the fence, and the Uniguard. My neighbor stops by
> and helps me put the finishing touches on. We go to place the blade
> insert in and note it doesn't fit. The blade appears to be in the
> way. Well..maybe they just didn't align it well at the factory. So I
> take a look to figure out how to adjust the blade alignment, and
> notice the front trunnion is broken. Uggh.
>
> I call up Woodworkers Supply where the saw was ordered. The customer
> service guy doesn't really seem to know what to do in this case, so he
> notes it in my order and I'll call back monday to see what will happen
> after he talks to his manager. I really hope I don't have to install
> the front trunnion myself, and I'm not looking forward to
> dissassembling a days worth of work either. Uggh.
>
> I'll keep everyone posted on the outcome. Wish me luck.
>
> cb
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I tend to agree. If the trunions are breaking and nothing else is damaged,
> it sure sounds like a poorly engineered part.
Well I don't think poorly engineered so much as a loss of quality control.
I don't think the trunnions have change much in the last 30 or 40 years,
although I could be wrong here.
cb wrote:
>A large foam wedge was placed under the motor for support during
>transit. The foam was loose in the bottom of my saw. That should
>have been my first clue to look for a broken trunnion.
Used to be, at least from the 30's up until the 70's, Delta
shipped the Unisaw with the motor in it's own carton. Later
they switched to shipping it with a bent metal bracket that
secured the motor through one of the table wing holes.
Foam.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
(tm BitchSlapBobZajicek)
UA100, who regularly gets asked, "what are the significant
differences between the first Unisaws and the Unisaws sold
today"...
"Mike at American Sycamore" <[email protected]> wrote in message >
> I am sorry for your trouble, but did you not have a local dealer that
> could take care of your needs?
> I have sold over 500 unisaws in my career and never had a busted
> trunnion. I wonder what is causing this proplem?
This seems to be a rather frequent problem at least in the last 4 or 5
years. When shopping for a cabinet saw 4 years ago I saw a brand new Unisaw
sitting on the sales floor with a broken trunnion. IIRC about a year ago
Delta admitted to having a problem at the factory during assembly. Seems
they were not torqueing the trunnion bolts properly. Seems that may have
been just an excuse as the problem seems to be getting worse and again I
seriously doubt that the trucking companies are singling out Delta.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > No, it is not a shipping problem.
>
> Exactly, you don't hear of other brand saws with broken trunnions.
It might still be a shipping problem. If the packaging of the product is
different enough from other brands, then that's still shipping. There's good
ways and there's less beneficial ways to attach products to wooden palettes.
Even the way a palette is constructed could be responsible. Even if it is a
quality control problem, it must be a nagging concern for Delta.
On 15 May 2004 18:30:50 -0700, [email protected] (cb) wrote:
>Well, saturday AM arrives and the truck rolls up with my new Unisaw,
>Unifence, and a Unigaurd. All the boxes look in good shape, except
>the mobile base box...but it appears fine after close inspection. I
>spend the day assembling the mobile base, getting two cast wings
>level, attaching the fence, and the Uniguard. My neighbor stops by
>and helps me put the finishing touches on. We go to place the blade
>insert in and note it doesn't fit. The blade appears to be in the
>way. Well..maybe they just didn't align it well at the factory. So I
>take a look to figure out how to adjust the blade alignment, and
>notice the front trunnion is broken. Uggh.
>
>I call up Woodworkers Supply where the saw was ordered. The customer
>service guy doesn't really seem to know what to do in this case, so he
>notes it in my order and I'll call back monday to see what will happen
>after he talks to his manager. I really hope I don't have to install
>the front trunnion myself, and I'm not looking forward to
>dissassembling a days worth of work either. Uggh.
I hope your experience is unique, because I just ordered that saw
(except with the Bies) from WWS, and the freight company says it'll be
here Thursday. I've heard about Uni trunnions being broken in
shipment, so that's the first thing I'm going to check.
I ordered a 17-925 drill press from WWS last summer and it showed up
with a broken casting on the bottom of the column. When I called them
up they were polite but they told me to call Delta directly. I got a
very nice lady there and they shipped out a whole new column straight
away. A year later, I don't even remember the days of frustration that
I couldn't try out my new tool. You'll have the same experience.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed until Thursday. I hope yours turns out
okay, too.
- -
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
"mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Your problem is not
> unique, not a manufacturing problem , a transportaion problem instead.
No, it is not a shipping problem. If you shipped 100 widgets and they all
arrive broken, do you blame the carrier or the way it is packed? You step
back and evaluate to problem and correct it. You either make the part
stronger, mount it better, or cushion it more for handling.
It is a design problem. Saws get shipped. Components must be made strong
enough to withstand handling during shipping and be packed accordingly.
Ed
[email protected]
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
Ed Pawlowski responds:
>No, it is not a shipping problem. If you shipped 100 widgets and they all
>arrive broken, do you blame the carrier or the way it is packed? You step
>back and evaluate to problem and correct it. You either make the part
>stronger, mount it better, or cushion it more for handling.
>
> It is a design problem. Saws get shipped. Components must be made strong
>enough to withstand handling during shipping and be packed accordingly.
I'd like to know a couple things before saying it's not a shipping problem: Has
the packing for shipping changed recently, because this is, AFAIK, a fairly
recent problem for Unisaws. The motor used to be pretty solidly bolted in one
place, reducing stress on numerous parts. Is that still the case? I know on a
lot of lighter--job site--saws with motors mounted, styrofoam blocks are used,
wedged in to keep the motor from jerking around. Has Delta resorted to
something similar for the Unisaw, which might be the cause of the breakage (the
Unisaw 3 HP motor is a LOT heavier than the little motors used on the job site
saws--hell, the whole saw doesn't weight what the motor does on the Unisaw)?
Unisaws have never had major problems with trunnion breakage, IME, until
recently. Is it possible the trunnion was re-engineered to a price point?
Is it possible handling during shipping with some companies has gotten rougher?
No saw should be expected to stand up to a 2-3 foot drop to a roadbed, or
similar surface, but I've been told that that kind of thing does happen on
occasion.
We hear about the Unisaws. Is it possible that similar, but unreported,
problems exist with other, similar, saws?
Charlie Self
"Bore, n.: A person who talks when you wish him to listen." Ambrose Bierce, The
Devil's Dictionary
On 16 May 2004 19:48:39 GMT, [email protected] (Charlie Self)
wrote:
|Ed Pawlowski responds:
|
|>No, it is not a shipping problem. If you shipped 100 widgets and they all
|>arrive broken, do you blame the carrier or the way it is packed? You step
|>back and evaluate to problem and correct it. You either make the part
|>stronger, mount it better, or cushion it more for handling.
|>
|> It is a design problem. Saws get shipped. Components must be made strong
|>enough to withstand handling during shipping and be packed accordingly.
|
|I'd like to know a couple things before saying it's not a shipping problem: Has
|the packing for shipping changed recently,
With a sample size of one, I can't say.
|because this is, AFAIK, a fairly
|recent problem for Unisaws. The motor used to be pretty solidly bolted in one
|place, reducing stress on numerous parts. Is that still the case? I know on a
|lot of lighter--job site--saws with motors mounted, styrofoam blocks are used,
|wedged in to keep the motor from jerking around. Has Delta resorted to
|something similar for the Unisaw,
Yes. Mine arrived with a substantial block of styrofoam inside the
cabinet. Scared the hell out of me at frist when I tried cranking the
handles and the tilt hardly moved. I thought I had the dreaded broken
trunion until I opened the cover a found the styrofoam.
|which might be the cause of the breakage (the
|Unisaw 3 HP motor is a LOT heavier than the little motors used on the job site
|saws--hell, the whole saw doesn't weight what the motor does on the Unisaw)?
|Unisaws have never had major problems with trunnion breakage, IME, until
|recently. Is it possible the trunnion was re-engineered to a price point?
|
|Is it possible handling during shipping with some companies has gotten rougher?
|No saw should be expected to stand up to a 2-3 foot drop to a roadbed, or
|similar surface, but I've been told that that kind of thing does happen on
|occasion.
When the guys from the local Woodcraft delivered mine in the lift
gate-less PU, the tilt indicator was bright red and there was a hole
in the cardboard carton. I seriously doubt that Woodcraft did it.
Fortunately, nothing was damaged, although there are plenty of other
issues.
Wes
I don't think it is a company problem, nor is it a marketing problem. It is a
money problem. When we bought things like this from local dealers, we paid
more, but got things like service--something you can't get from the larger mail
order companies.
Sure, they can be good guys, and send you replacement parts, but when you shell
out two large for a heavy saw, it's nice if they put it in place for you (after
testing it first). You save money when you order from Amazon, or Highland, or
wherever. You get (from Highland anyway), good tech support from knowledgable
people. You won't get any onsite service.
Goes with the territory. I always understand that things can arrive broken. Or
defective. I had that with my Delta DJ-15. This large behemoth comes, is not
tuned right, and the tech gives me info on the phone. Not when I need the info,
but when THEY call back. Then I have to sit there and perform major surgery on
a joiner. Never worked right, never could get even a Delta service center to
come. Their answer was bring it. HOW?
So I learned from there, and only dealt with dealers, or companies that come to
you.
the issue is more of "price point" than it is the country of
manufacturer!
dave
RKON wrote:
>>I will dispute that Chinese steel is junk.
>
> Ok. and the reason why Rolls Royce and Pratt & Whitney sell $150 steel bolts
> to Chineese airlines instead of $5 Chineese bolts? Not because they can its
> because the jets would be falling out of the skies. Tell me where I can get
> a cheap set of Chineese Chisels or hand plane that can outperform a LN plane
> or Chisel? I try them. Stanley has been making their stuff in China? Do you
> want to but their planes? I
"patriarch [email protected]>" <<patriarch> wrote in message >
> Whatever it is, it is a customer problem. Which has rapidly escalated to
a marketing problem.
No, it is a company problem that has escalated to a marketing problem and is
a big inconvience to its unfortunate customers. The customers are not the
problem.
>
> And if Delta were not for sale, maybe it wouldn't have become a problem to
> begin with.....
This was a problem 4 years ago and I don't think Delta was for sale then.
> Companies, and people, in business for the long run, try very hard not to
> let these things happen, or to linger when they do.
Totally agree, incompetency is the problem here. Who is to blame? It
probably boils down to management trying to make more profit than the market
will allow.
> Back when Japanese products being brought into this country were still
> mostly cheap junk, I spent some time in Japan. The products they had there
> were every bit as good as anyone's, a lot of it better than most. The
> American market did not see that though as importers were only bringing in
> the cheap stuff. I would be willing to bet that there are really good
> Chinese products to be had. What we see here is not so much representative
> of the state of Chinese manufacturing so much as the state of American
> importers.
When I was a youngsta, "Made in Japan" was synomonous with Junk. That is
quite the opposite today. China is still considered a "Developing Nation"
they have a long way to go until they would be considered a Developed
Nation. With the high growth boom and their appetite for steel I would
almost bet that the percentage of Chinese steel deemed as High Quality is
much lower that of US or Russia. Yes, they can produce "Higher Quality"
steel but not at our levels. They have been able to keep prices cheaper in
the US because they have their currency pegged to the dollar.
Getting back to Delta and the issue of broken trunion's. Is it because of
engineering? Well, has the design of the trunion in a Unisaw changed that
much in the past 10 years? Is it a matter of quality control? Hmmmm. When a
company like Pentair is looking to increase profits and up their profit
margin what areas are impacted first? Customer Service and quality control.
Look at their Income statement and their tools group saw sales grow 10% but
their gross profit rose 2%. Not really good when they had 20% overall
growth.
My take on this is that they don't give a hoot about increasing quality.
They are under incredible pricing pressure from it competitors. They have to
answer to the shareholders first and foremost.
Rich
BTW.. There was an interesting thread on the forum at woodnet about Delta
muzzling one of the Delta CSR's and forbidding him from responding to
questions posted there. Interesting stuff.
Hope... Spell check failure.
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I hoe not. They buy it from us.
> "RKON" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:Z4Tpc.56650$iy5.4344@okepread05...
> The source is just stating the
> > facts. Chineese Steel is junk. Do you dispute that?
> >
> > Rich
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
"RKON" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:yPTpc.56659$iy5.21810@okepread05...
>
> I doubt they buy much steel because up to 6 months ago there was a 25%
> tariff that China put in place to counter Bush's Steel tariffs. They buy
> tons and tons of scap metal.
I can tell you for a fact that a lot of Chinese steel is being imported for
oil refineries. My neighbor is a cost engineer that over sees plant
modifications and says that the imported steel meets ISO specs and is
cheaper to buy.
I hoe not. They buy it from us.
"RKON" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Z4Tpc.56650$iy5.4344@okepread05...
The source is just stating the
> facts. Chineese Steel is junk. Do you dispute that?
>
> Rich
>
>
>
>
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Back when Japanese products being brought into this country were still
> mostly cheap junk, I spent some time in Japan. The products they had there
> were every bit as good as anyone's, a lot of it better than most. The
> American market did not see that though as importers were only bringing in
> the cheap stuff. I would be willing to bet that there are really good
> Chinese products to be had. What we see here is not so much representative
> of the state of Chinese manufacturing so much as the state of American
> importers.
CW, you have hit that nail right smack dap dead center on the head again.
"RKON" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:e1Spc.56380$iy5.24671@okepread05...
> Could it just be that the trunions are Chineese made?
NO.. The Chinese, Tiawan ones don't break that you hear of.
"RKON" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Z4Tpc.56650$iy5.4344@okepread05...
> > that's a highly jingoistic attitude! But then I should
> > consider the source...
>
> At least I am not a shameless capitalist. The source is just stating the
> facts. Chineese Steel is junk. Do you dispute that?
I will dispute that Chinese steel is junk. It is the parent company that
dictates the quality of materials in the products that they have
manufactured over seas.
>
> I will dispute that Chinese steel is junk.
Ok. and the reason why Rolls Royce and Pratt & Whitney sell $150 steel bolts
to Chineese airlines instead of $5 Chineese bolts? Not because they can its
because the jets would be falling out of the skies. Tell me where I can get
a cheap set of Chineese Chisels or hand plane that can outperform a LN plane
or Chisel? I try them. Stanley has been making their stuff in China? Do you
want to but their planes? I
> It is the parent company that
> dictates the quality of materials in the products that they have
> manufactured over seas.
>
Absolutely True. It all comes down to profit and shareholders. In the case
of Pentair they are looking to dump Delta/PC and the rest of the tool
division because they squeezed everything they could out of the company.
Last quarter they got single digit growth and jack on the profit margins on
the Tool division. They are looking to move into the higher margin water
treatment sector.
Rich
[email protected] (Charlie Self) wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Ed Pawlowski responds:
>
>>No, it is not a shipping problem.
>>
>> It is a design problem.
>
> I'd like to know a couple things before saying it's not a shipping
> problem:
<snippage>
>
> We hear about the Unisaws. Is it possible that similar, but
> unreported, problems exist with other, similar, saws?
>
> Charlie Self
Whatever it is, it is a customer problem.
Which has rapidly escalated to a marketing problem.
And if Delta were not for sale, maybe it wouldn't have become a problem to
begin with.....
Companies, and people, in business for the long run, try very hard not to
let these things happen, or to linger when they do.
Too bad all the wooddorkers are 'white, 65 and dying off', and 'there won't
ever be a market for any more Unisaws...' (tongue firmly in cheek...)
Good companies don't let these kinds of problems linger. Give Delta a
chance in the morning. We won't solve it here for them, or the OP,
tonight.
Patriarch
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> "patriarch [email protected]>" <<patriarch> wrote in
> message >
>
>
>> Whatever it is, it is a customer problem. Which has rapidly
>> escalated to
> a marketing problem.
>
>
> No, it is a company problem that has escalated to a marketing problem
> and is a big inconvience to its unfortunate customers. The customers
> are not the problem.
>
>>
>> And if Delta were not for sale, maybe it wouldn't have become a
>> problem to begin with.....
>
> This was a problem 4 years ago and I don't think Delta was for sale
> then.
>
>
>> Companies, and people, in business for the long run, try very hard
>> not to let these things happen, or to linger when they do.
>
> Totally agree, incompetency is the problem here. Who is to blame? It
> probably boils down to management trying to make more profit than the
> market will allow.
>
Leon, we agree. To clarify what I was trying to say, it is the customer's
problem, but certainly not his fault. He is, unfortunately, involved in
the solving of the problem, at a time when he would hope to be having what
some marketers call "an excellent out of the box experience." Instead, he
has this community all upset over his problem, and upset with a company
which, at one time, was a standard on which woodworkers could rely.
I think that, were there an accepted alternative standard available, we, as
a community, would have migrated to it. But some things move slowly,
particularly when each of us pretty much has ONE (or fewer) experience with
a new cabinet saw. It's not exactly like a router, or something similar.
;-) I mean, how can you be a true Normite, and use a Powermatic saw?
(tongue FIRMLY in cheek.)
And we'd have to rename rec.norm!
You'd think that anyone at Delta, reading this thread, would sense the
depth of frustration involved, and that something positive would happen. To
let this go on so long isn't smart. Some folks in business management may
be b*st*rds, but STUPID b*st*rds just don't survive very long.
Actually, neither do greedy b*st*rds.....
Patriarch
I dispute your entire position in this thread. To argue
that an entire country's output of steel is much inferior to
your preferred source is total nonsense. I have no idea why
you postulate such an idea, but basically I think you are
ignorant and not worthy of an intelligent discourse on the
subject.
dave
RKON wrote:
>>that's a highly jingoistic attitude! But then I should
>>consider the source...
>
>
> At least I am not a shameless capitalist. The source is just stating the
> facts. Chineese Steel is junk. Do you dispute that?
>
> Rich
>
>
>
>
Bay Area Dave wrote:
> the issue is more of "price point" than it is the country of
> manufacturer!
>
> dave
>
> RKON wrote:
>
>>>I will dispute that Chinese steel is junk.
>>
>> Ok. and the reason why Rolls Royce and Pratt & Whitney sell $150 steel
>> bolts to Chineese airlines instead of $5 Chineese bolts? Not because they
>> can its because the jets would be falling out of the skies.
No, it's because they can. The Chinese are quite capable of making
fasteners for aircraft--they do after all make their own warplanes,
satellites, and spacecraft. But they don't have the detailed documentation
that would allow them to make an exact duplicate of the particular fastener
with the same alloy, same heat treat, same surface treatment, etc. And if
the engine did come apart Pratt or Rolls would point at that part and say
"sorry, not our fault". Incidentally, I've seen some pretty crappy
American made stuff that has Pratt & Whitney part numbers stamped on
it--set it side by side with the part that Pratt made and sometimes they
don't even look like the same part.
Note that in a former life I was an engineer at one of Pratt's sister
companies in UTC and did a certain amount of work for and with them.
> Tell me where
>> I can get a cheap set of Chineese Chisels or hand plane that can
>> outperform a LN plane or Chisel? I try them. Stanley has been making
>> their stuff in China? Do you want to but their planes? I
Make up your mind, do you want cheap or good? If you want good you'll
probably have to go to China and track down the individual craftsman you
need--China doesn't export artisan work to any great extent. If you want
cheap you're going to get cheap, which works out the same in any language.
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Could it just be that the trunions are Chineese made?
Rich
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ed Pawlowski responds:
>
> >No, it is not a shipping problem. If you shipped 100 widgets and they all
> >arrive broken, do you blame the carrier or the way it is packed? You
step
> >back and evaluate to problem and correct it. You either make the part
> >stronger, mount it better, or cushion it more for handling.
> >
> > It is a design problem. Saws get shipped. Components must be made
strong
> >enough to withstand handling during shipping and be packed accordingly.
>
> I'd like to know a couple things before saying it's not a shipping
problem: Has
> the packing for shipping changed recently, because this is, AFAIK, a
fairly
> recent problem for Unisaws. The motor used to be pretty solidly bolted in
one
> place, reducing stress on numerous parts. Is that still the case? I know
on a
> lot of lighter--job site--saws with motors mounted, styrofoam blocks are
used,
> wedged in to keep the motor from jerking around. Has Delta resorted to
> something similar for the Unisaw, which might be the cause of the breakage
(the
> Unisaw 3 HP motor is a LOT heavier than the little motors used on the job
site
> saws--hell, the whole saw doesn't weight what the motor does on the
Unisaw)?
> Unisaws have never had major problems with trunnion breakage, IME, until
> recently. Is it possible the trunnion was re-engineered to a price point?
>
> Is it possible handling during shipping with some companies has gotten
rougher?
> No saw should be expected to stand up to a 2-3 foot drop to a roadbed, or
> similar surface, but I've been told that that kind of thing does happen on
> occasion.
>
> We hear about the Unisaws. Is it possible that similar, but unreported,
> problems exist with other, similar, saws?
>
> Charlie Self
> "Bore, n.: A person who talks when you wish him to listen." Ambrose
Bierce, The
> Devil's Dictionary
>
>
that's a highly jingoistic attitude! But then I should
consider the source...
dave
RKON wrote:
> Could it just be that the trunions are Chineese made?
> Rich
> "Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Ed Pawlowski responds:
>>
>>
>>>No, it is not a shipping problem. If you shipped 100 widgets and they all
>>>arrive broken, do you blame the carrier or the way it is packed? You
>
> step
>
>>>back and evaluate to problem and correct it. You either make the part
>>>stronger, mount it better, or cushion it more for handling.
>>>
>>>It is a design problem. Saws get shipped. Components must be made
>
> strong
>
>>>enough to withstand handling during shipping and be packed accordingly.
>>
>>I'd like to know a couple things before saying it's not a shipping
>
> problem: Has
>
>>the packing for shipping changed recently, because this is, AFAIK, a
>
> fairly
>
>>recent problem for Unisaws. The motor used to be pretty solidly bolted in
>
> one
>
>>place, reducing stress on numerous parts. Is that still the case? I know
>
> on a
>
>>lot of lighter--job site--saws with motors mounted, styrofoam blocks are
>
> used,
>
>>wedged in to keep the motor from jerking around. Has Delta resorted to
>>something similar for the Unisaw, which might be the cause of the breakage
>
> (the
>
>>Unisaw 3 HP motor is a LOT heavier than the little motors used on the job
>
> site
>
>>saws--hell, the whole saw doesn't weight what the motor does on the
>
> Unisaw)?
>
>>Unisaws have never had major problems with trunnion breakage, IME, until
>>recently. Is it possible the trunnion was re-engineered to a price point?
>>
>>Is it possible handling during shipping with some companies has gotten
>
> rougher?
>
>>No saw should be expected to stand up to a 2-3 foot drop to a roadbed, or
>>similar surface, but I've been told that that kind of thing does happen on
>>occasion.
>>
>>We hear about the Unisaws. Is it possible that similar, but unreported,
>>problems exist with other, similar, saws?
>>
>>Charlie Self
>>"Bore, n.: A person who talks when you wish him to listen." Ambrose
>
> Bierce, The
>
>>Devil's Dictionary
>>
>>
>
>
>
[email protected] (Charlie Self) wrote in message
> I'd like to know a couple things before saying it's not a shipping problem: Has
> the packing for shipping changed recently, because this is, AFAIK, a fairly
> recent problem for Unisaws. The motor used to be pretty solidly bolted in one
> place, reducing stress on numerous parts. Is that still the case? I know on a
> lot of lighter--job site--saws with motors mounted, styrofoam blocks are used,
> wedged in to keep the motor from jerking around. Has Delta resorted to
> something similar for the Unisaw, which might be the cause of the breakage (the
> Unisaw 3 HP motor is a LOT heavier than the little motors used on the job site
> saws--hell, the whole saw doesn't weight what the motor does on the Unisaw)?
> Unisaws have never had major problems with trunnion breakage, IME, until
> recently. Is it possible the trunnion was re-engineered to a price point?
>
> Is it possible handling during shipping with some companies has gotten rougher?
> No saw should be expected to stand up to a 2-3 foot drop to a roadbed, or
> similar surface, but I've been told that that kind of thing does happen on
> occasion.
>
My first Unisaw arrived with a broken trunnion. It had a large block
of styrofoam lying in the bottom of the cabinet which was supposed to
have been wedged between the motor and the side of the cabinet. The
slats on the shipping pallet were also split where the saw was bolted
to it. It was obvious the crate had been mishandled, but obvious only
after I opened it. There was no external damage. When I unpacked my
second saw, they had obviously tried to correct the packaging problem.
They had put a large plastic bag in the cabinet and filled it with
expanding foam. The foam completely surrounded the motor. I spent at
least an hour using a keyhole saw to whittle it into pieces small
enough to remove from the cabinet. But my trunnion was intact. These
were both factory reconditioned Unisaws, and I expect it's simpler to
experiment with packaging methods with them since there are fewer of
them. I'm still happy with my purchase, especially since my dealer
(Redmond Machinery in Atlanta) gave me a couple of nice freebies
(Freud blade and Bies. splitter) to make up for the hassle.
DonkeyHody
" We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom
that is in it - and stop there; lest we be like the cat that sits down
on a hot stove-lid. She will never sit down on a hot stove-lid
again---and that is well; but also she will never sit down on a cold
one anymore." - Mark Twain
Back when Japanese products being brought into this country were still
mostly cheap junk, I spent some time in Japan. The products they had there
were every bit as good as anyone's, a lot of it better than most. The
American market did not see that though as importers were only bringing in
the cheap stuff. I would be willing to bet that there are really good
Chinese products to be had. What we see here is not so much representative
of the state of Chinese manufacturing so much as the state of American
importers.
"RKON" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:WDTpc.56654$iy5.45191@okepread05...
>
> >
> > I will dispute that Chinese steel is junk.
> Ok. and the reason why Rolls Royce and Pratt & Whitney sell $150 steel
bolts
> to Chineese airlines instead of $5 Chineese bolts? Not because they can
its
> because the jets would be falling out of the skies. Tell me where I can
get
> a cheap set of Chineese Chisels or hand plane that can outperform a LN
plane
> or Chisel? I try them. Stanley has been making their stuff in China? Do
you
> want to but their planes? I
>
Hi, I have a Yorkcraft 6" jointer, have had it for over a year. It was
made in China, have had no problems with it at all, not a one. I'd buy
again it a heart beat.
Tony
RKON <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Z4Tpc.56650$iy5.4344@okepread05...
> > that's a highly jingoistic attitude! But then I should
> > consider the source...
>
> At least I am not a shameless capitalist. The source is just stating the
> facts. Chineese Steel is junk. Do you dispute that?
>
> Rich
>
>
>
>
patriarch wrote:
>You'd think that anyone at Delta, reading this thread, would sense the
>depth of frustration involved, and that something positive would happen. To
>let this go on so long isn't smart. Some folks in business management may
>be b*st*rds, but STUPID b*st*rds just don't survive very long.
Over on the ShopNotes forum there used to be a guy from
Delta's technical department who posted under the nom de
plume Delta 007. Recently Delta pulled the rug and told him
he could no longer post there under that name and that he
should keep his technical advice (advise in wreckspeak) to
his 9 to 5 side of life.
Take from this what you will.
UA100
"RKON" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:WDTpc.56654$iy5.45191@okepread05...
> Ok. and the reason why Rolls Royce and Pratt & Whitney sell $150 steel
bolts
> to Chineese airlines instead of $5 Chineese bolts? Not because they can
its
> because the jets would be falling out of the skies.
I don't doubt for a second that the Chinese could build that bolt just as
good or maybe better than the $150 steel bolt. Economics would be the
reason that the Chinese buy the $150 bolt vs. making ther own in the small
quanitiies that they would need.
>Tell me where I can get
> a cheap set of Chineese Chisels or hand plane that can outperform a LN
plane
> or Chisel? I try them. Stanley has been making their stuff in China? Do
you
> want to but their planes?
If you find a comparable Chinese plane to the LN plane you would would
probably have to filter out "cheap". Where you error in your thinking is
that you believe that no one else can produce products as good as we can.
It is the quality of materials dictated by the company marketing the
product that you end up with. You can probably buy better quality Chinese
steel in China. Not all of what comes out of China is their best. Probably
most of the good stuff stays there. But comparing a Chinese and or Tiawan
cabinet saw compared to an American built Unisaw you see that the Foreign
steel may be better than that that goes in the Unisaw since it is the Unisaw
trunnion that seems to have the problems.
I doubt they buy much steel because up to 6 months ago there was a 25%
tariff that China put in place to counter Bush's Steel tariffs. They buy
tons and tons of scap metal.
Rich
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I hoe not. They buy it from us.
> "RKON" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:Z4Tpc.56650$iy5.4344@okepread05...
> The source is just stating the
> > facts. Chineese Steel is junk. Do you dispute that?
> >
> > Rich
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Ahhhh !!! I see said the Blind Man. I never had anything shipped direct
utter than UPS, Fed Ex. ASSumptions, ASSumptions.
Dave, I stand Corrected !!
Rich
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "RKON" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:tsHpc.51740>
> > I do not see your logic. A item is shipped to the dealer the same method
> it
> > is shipped to the home. No?
>
> No. Dealers get their heavy machinery usually delivered by tractor trailer
> and drivers using established loading and unloading procedures. Retail
> outfits use delivery agents with smaller trucks and much less experienced
> people. There's a big difference between using a forklift to load and
unload
> something than dragging several hundred pounds of metal onto and off a
lift
> gate.
>
> > I think you ran into BAD luck.
>
> Maybe, but it sounds like that bad luck is getting pretty common.
>
>
BIG difference! IF you go to the loading dock of your local
retailer and find obvious damage, you can ask to either get
another unit (assuming they have another!) or open it up
before bothering to take it home. OR, you can have them
open the item and deliver it to your door. Either way, the
chances of it being broken are less than if it just arrived
from across the country. To break it down to simple terms
for you (logic isn't your long suit, I take it?) by buying
from a local dealer you are better able to weed out "just
arrived in town and broken all to hell" equipment. So far
I've had less damaged stuff that I have picked up from local
dealers. Sorry you can't accept my experience. You just
HAVE to argue with my experiences, don't you??
dave
RKON wrote:
>>Having equipment shipped to you is definitely a crap shoot.
>
>
> I do not see your logic. A item is shipped to the dealer the same method it
> is shipped to the home. No?
> I think you ran into BAD luck.
>
> Rich
>
>
On Mon, 24 May 2004 16:23:33 +0100, LRod
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Everything lined up nicely with the extension wing, the rails for the
>Bies, etc. Well, the rest of the story is pretty much the same as
>anyone else's with a brand new Unisaw, so I won't go any further.
I'm glad to hear you got all the parts. <G>
Enjoy your great new tool!
Barry
"Unisaw A100" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> white space added for emphasis...
>
> Is/was this guy new to the job? I mean, I keep hearing
> about Unisaws being delivered with broke trunnions. Has
> Woodworker's Supply been spared one these (doubtful onna
> 'count of the size of the company) deliveries?
I hope he is new because the crap that retailers try to feed us is getting
old.
> >I really hope I don't have to install the front trunnion myself,
>
> Let's put it this way. You just spent $XXXX on a Unisaw.
> It hasn't been powered up. Sounds like it's never had a
> blade. It's not safe to run. It's a liability to the
> company that sold it and the company that made it.
>
> Now, did you buy it knowing/expecting it to broken or did
> you buy something expecting it to be a saw?
>
> UA100, who is wondering, why do I keep hearing about broke
> trunnions on Unisaws???