HELP! Confusion of dust collectors

"loutent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:121120041241290728%[email protected]...
> Wait! That HF dust collector has a 30 micron bag which means all the
> fine dust will be spewing back into your shop.
>
>

I still have the factory bag on my HF dust collector. I don't have dust
spewing all over my shop, unless I am sanding!
Greg

"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 18:23:51 -0600, "Greg O" <[email protected]>
>>
> hmm... it sounds like the way to go for a beginner is the $150 one
> with the $40 hose kit...
> The $190 one has most of the stuff in the kit and is 1 micron, but
> them we gat back to that 1 hp thing instead of 2hp and 30 microns..
>
>


My toughts were to buy the bigger 2HP HF collector, then if I did not like
the bags, replace them with any of the various .5 or1 micron bags available.
I have not seen the need to upgrade the bags.
I think you will be much more pleased with the 2 HP model over the 1 HP
model. I looked at the 1 HP model, and decided it was too small. Plus even
if you upgrade the bags, the 2 HP is still a good deal.
Also, I have not bought any blaste gates, dust collector tuning, whatever o
build a collection system. I park my TS, jointer, router table, and planer
close enough togather so I just move the hose from one machine to the other
as needed. There is a friction fit hose end that mates with the typical dust
collector adaptors that mount to your machines.

This fits on your hose,
www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00006S7CK/qid=1100308753/br=1-8/ref=
br_lf_hi_8//103-9710276-0606224?v=glance&s=hi&n=552654
and mates with these,
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005A1I3/qid=1100308848/br=1-15/ref=br_lf_hi_15//103-9710276-0606224?v=glance&s=hi&n=552654

I have been tempted to buy another hose, but I guess I am not pressed hard
enough for time so moving the hose does not bother me. Sometime I may get
something permant set up with ridgid tubing and some short hoses to the
machines, but for now its good enough!
GReg

"loutent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:131120041602582649%[email protected]...
>
> >
> My BIY has a Delta dust collector with a 30 micron bag. When his
> collector is running and the sun is streaming into his shop through a
> window, it is unbelievable what you see escaping into the air.
>
>

I have a home built dust filter that I use when ever I am in the shop. No
dust sparkling in the sun light in my shop.
Greg

"Mark Jerde" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:DSxld.2586$GV5.522@trnddc04...
> > > I have a home built dust filter that I use when ever I am in the
> > shop. No dust sparkling in the sun light in my shop.
>
> Details, please? I may want to "borrow" some ideas. ;-)
>
> I have a "one stage" furnace-fan sanding table that uses just the standard
> flat filters. I'm thinking about modifying it to have a 2nd stage that
uses
> automobile air filters to help get rid of the smaller dust particles.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -- Mark
>
>
>
>

I am almost embarassed to show mine!
I do HVAC work for a living. A couple of years back I replaced a furnace for
someone, broght the old one home and cut the upper 1/2 of the funace off,
leaving just the blower section. Next day after work I bent up some sheet
metal to build a filter rack for it. It uses two 20"x20"x2" pleated paper
air filters, back to back. When the outer one gets dirty I toss it, move the
inner one out, with a new filter behind it. It has a three speed fan, but I
put a three position, center off toggle switch on it, hi and low speeds
only.

Total cost, zip, nadda, nothing, 'cept for the filters. Even the switch was
one that I scrounged off something years earlier and had been residing in a
junk box.

Sorry, the whole aparatus has zero wood working content, as far as building
it, just metal!

Now the na-sayers will be screaming that it don't get the sub-micron dust
that will kill you in the long run. Well I donno. After all I used NOTHING
before, other than the snot in my nose which used to get thick and dirty,
but not comes out nice and clean and pristine. With it running I don't see
any tiny floaters in the sun light, unless I have been sanding, which I have
no means of collecting at this point, but after 15-20 minutes of running the
filter on high, the air is clean again.
I ingest more dust on construction sites daily than I will ever ingest in my
shop!
Greg

Wait! That HF dust collector has a 30 micron bag which means all the
fine dust will be spewing back into your shop.

Check out:

http://www.pennstateind.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Co
de=E-10168A&Category_Code=

(watch the wrap)

this is a little more expensive, but has a 1 micron bag. I bought this
machine a few years bag with a 3 micron bag and it works very well. I
think you will be disappointed with 30 micron filtration.

There are many other models/manufacturers, but whatever you choose, get
a good set of bags.

Lou

In article <[email protected]>, mac davis
<[email protected]> wrote:

> I'm ready to order a HF DC, but now I see that they have at least 4
> different models, from $99 dollars up...
>
> I WAS going to order this one
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45378
> which seems to be the normal HF 2 hp $159 model that I had posted
> questions about, priced at $149
>
> It looks like I would need this accessory kit, at a minimum, to get
> started
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=47911
>
> which adds another $39
>
> Then, I saw this one
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=3136
> which though only having 1 hp seems to be a better filtering machine
> and though higher priced, seems to come (I downloaded both manuals)
> with a Y and at least one hose..
>
> I'd like to order one of these today or tonight, so any help clearing
> my confusion is appreciated..
>
> ALSO.. HF doesn't seem to carry anything like a cyclone unit, except
> for a 5 gallon one with 2 1/2" fittings.. any suggestions on where to
> look for either a unit to buy or parts to build one?

> Has anyone actually verified any of the imported dust collector
> claims? Would we know a 1 micron bag from a 30 micron bag by sight?

You can easily tell a small micron bag - they are thicker and felt-like
and will stand up on their own with no support. At least the ones I
have do.

My BIY has a Delta dust collector with a 30 micron bag. When his
collector is running and the sun is streaming into his shop through a
window, it is unbelievable what you see escaping into the air.

Now I'm sure this is true of smaller micron bags as well, but if you
are trying to save a few bucks on bags, think of your lungs first, then
amortize the $50 extra over the next (say) 10+ years. The cost is
insignificant.

In addition, it is good to wear a dust mask too.

No DC will get everything - but every shop should have a decent one one.

Lou

"patrick conroy" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> >
> > Emptying the can is *a* benefit but not the main one: it serves to
> > protect the impellor blades from every big chunk that the dust collector
> > slurps up. They should fall in the can BEFORE they hit the DC. For the
> > little bit of money you need to spend to get a garbage can and cyclone
> > lid, it's cheap insurance.
>
> OK... But I take very light passes with the DW735...

Don't forget about the times you use the DC as a vacuum with a floor
sweep or hose and you pick up a screw or chunk of wood. The impellor
doesn't like that too much. Dust collectors don't have many moving
parts, but I don't imagine that they are cheap to replace. A bent
impellor is likely much more expensive than a pre-separator. As for
buying better bags later, they are not on the cheap side either when
you buy them as add-ons.

I am speaking more from my own purchase deciding factors rather than
from experience. I haven't actually used my DC system yet. I am
currently designing shop plans and ducting.

ET

You might give a hint as to what you want it for.

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 19:29:01 GMT, "toller" <[email protected]> wrote:

>You might give a hint as to what you want it for.
>
sorry.. we beat my original post to death and I thought everyone had
read it and was tired of it.. *g*

I'm getting back into wood working after a lot of years away from it..
working in a 2 car garage that is still shared with wife & laundry
machines, so I have about 2/3 of it..

no heavy stuff yet like jointer or planer, and won't be adding them
for quite a while.. (we hope to sell the house and move to a more
rural area)

I use 1 RAS, CMS, shopsmith mostly for drilling and routing, and small
power tools like drills, biscuit jointer, etc..

Besides 2 shop vacs, I'm not using any DC at all.. I did just get the
old portable swamp cooler out of the shed and I run it (blowing out
the garage door) when ever I'm making dust...

If I add a jointer or planer, I'll also add a cyclone type separator
to the system.. right now, even the space a DC takes up is a
sacrifice..

Have you looked at Grizzly's G1029Z? It has a .3 micron bag.


"loutent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:121120041241290728%[email protected]...
> Wait! That HF dust collector has a 30 micron bag which means all the
> fine dust will be spewing back into your shop.
>
> Check out:
>
> http://www.pennstateind.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Co
> de=E-10168A&Category_Code=
>
> (watch the wrap)
>
> this is a little more expensive, but has a 1 micron bag. I bought this
> machine a few years bag with a 3 micron bag and it works very well. I
> think you will be disappointed with 30 micron filtration.
>
> There are many other models/manufacturers, but whatever you choose, get
> a good set of bags.
>
> Lou
>
> In article <[email protected]>, mac davis
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I'm ready to order a HF DC, but now I see that they have at least 4
> > different models, from $99 dollars up...
> >
> > I WAS going to order this one
> > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45378
> > which seems to be the normal HF 2 hp $159 model that I had posted
> > questions about, priced at $149
> >
> > It looks like I would need this accessory kit, at a minimum, to get
> > started
> > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=47911
> >
> > which adds another $39
> >
> > Then, I saw this one
> > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=3136
> > which though only having 1 hp seems to be a better filtering machine
> > and though higher priced, seems to come (I downloaded both manuals)
> > with a Y and at least one hose..
> >
> > I'd like to order one of these today or tonight, so any help clearing
> > my confusion is appreciated..
> >
> > ALSO.. HF doesn't seem to carry anything like a cyclone unit, except
> > for a 5 gallon one with 2 1/2" fittings.. any suggestions on where to
> > look for either a unit to buy or parts to build one?

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 18:23:51 -0600, "Greg O" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>"loutent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:121120041241290728%[email protected]...
>> Wait! That HF dust collector has a 30 micron bag which means all the
>> fine dust will be spewing back into your shop.
>>
>>
>
>I still have the factory bag on my HF dust collector. I don't have dust
>spewing all over my shop, unless I am sanding!
>Greg
>
well, that's good to hear!
Another idea I'm stealing from Ken is a sanding box.. that should held
some with the little stuff.. and the swamp cooler seems to get that
out of the air pretty fast..

hmm... it sounds like the way to go for a beginner is the $150 one
with the $40 hose kit...
The $190 one has most of the stuff in the kit and is 1 micron, but
them we gat back to that 1 hp thing instead of 2hp and 30 microns..

I should have just bought the sucker last month before I knew what the
hell a micron was!! *g*

"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> ALSO.. HF doesn't seem to carry anything like a cyclone unit, except
> for a 5 gallon one with 2 1/2" fittings.. any suggestions on where to
> look for either a unit to buy or parts to build one?

I like the design Woodcraft has. http://tinyurl.com/6myq3

But the one I like best is the one I made. I'm going to post some pictures
this weekend of that and other stuff. It requires 3/4" plywood for the top
and a couple of PVC pipe fittings and some clamps. A router is almost a
must to be able to make it.

Bob

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 19:49:14 GMT, "FMB" <[email protected]> wrote:

>"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 19:29:01 GMT, "toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>You might give a hint as to what you want it for.
>>>
>> sorry.. we beat my original post to death and I thought everyone had
>> read it and was tired of it.. *g*
>>
>> I'm getting back into wood working after a lot of years away from it..
>> working in a 2 car garage that is still shared with wife & laundry
>> machines, so I have about 2/3 of it..
>>
><snip>
>
>Mac, are you gonna have "da machine" in your garage too? Gotta keep the
>dust off of that too.
>
>Keep us informed with your progress with the DC as that is something else
>still on the list...

sorry, but I don't think they allow ram diesel owners in the wreck...
*g*

I ordered the DC and starter kit last night... another $210 ding on
the ol' credit card...

It would be cheaper and more effective to get one of those trolls from
the dodge group to just walk by and inhale once a day..

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 12:41:29 -0500, loutent <[email protected]> wrote:

>Wait! That HF dust collector has a 30 micron bag which means all the
>fine dust will be spewing back into your shop.

So does the one for $189 (3136)
>
>Check out:
>
>http://www.pennstateind.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Co de=E-10168A&Category_Code=
>
>(watch the wrap)
>
>this is a little more expensive, but has a 1 micron bag. I bought this
>machine a few years bag with a 3 micron bag and it works very well. I
>think you will be disappointed with 30 micron filtration.
>
>There are many other models/manufacturers, but whatever you choose, get
>a good set of bags.
>
>Lou
>
>In article <[email protected]>, mac davis
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I'm ready to order a HF DC, but now I see that they have at least 4
>> different models, from $99 dollars up...
>>
>> I WAS going to order this one
>> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45378
>> which seems to be the normal HF 2 hp $159 model that I had posted
>> questions about, priced at $149
>>
>> It looks like I would need this accessory kit, at a minimum, to get
>> started
>> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=47911
>>
>> which adds another $39
>>
>> Then, I saw this one
>> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=3136
>> which though only having 1 hp seems to be a better filtering machine
>> and though higher priced, seems to come (I downloaded both manuals)
>> with a Y and at least one hose..
>>
>> I'd like to order one of these today or tonight, so any help clearing
>> my confusion is appreciated..
>>
>> ALSO.. HF doesn't seem to carry anything like a cyclone unit, except
>> for a 5 gallon one with 2 1/2" fittings.. any suggestions on where to
>> look for either a unit to buy or parts to build one?

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 19:25:52 -0600, "Greg O" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 18:23:51 -0600, "Greg O" <[email protected]>
>>>
>> hmm... it sounds like the way to go for a beginner is the $150 one
>> with the $40 hose kit...
>> The $190 one has most of the stuff in the kit and is 1 micron, but
>> them we gat back to that 1 hp thing instead of 2hp and 30 microns..
>>
>>
>
>
>My toughts were to buy the bigger 2HP HF collector, then if I did not like
>the bags, replace them with any of the various .5 or1 micron bags available.
>I have not seen the need to upgrade the bags.
>I think you will be much more pleased with the 2 HP model over the 1 HP
>model. I looked at the 1 HP model, and decided it was too small. Plus even
>if you upgrade the bags, the 2 HP is still a good deal.
>Also, I have not bought any blaste gates, dust collector tuning, whatever o
>build a collection system. I park my TS, jointer, router table, and planer
>close enough togather so I just move the hose from one machine to the other
>as needed. There is a friction fit hose end that mates with the typical dust
>collector adaptors that mount to your machines.
>
>This fits on your hose,
>www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00006S7CK/qid=1100308753/br=1-8/ref=
>br_lf_hi_8//103-9710276-0606224?v=glance&s=hi&n=552654
>and mates with these,
>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005A1I3/qid=1100308848/br=1-15/ref=br_lf_hi_15//103-9710276-0606224?v=glance&s=hi&n=552654
>
>I have been tempted to buy another hose, but I guess I am not pressed hard
>enough for time so moving the hose does not bother me. Sometime I may get
>something permant set up with ridgid tubing and some short hoses to the
>machines, but for now its good enough!
>GReg
>
well, it got solved tonight...
I was filling the wife in on all the stuff I learned and the trouble
that I was having deciding, and she said "go for the 2hp, you can add
bags and stuff cheaper than you can add horsepower"
She's actually got more experience with this kind of stuff than I do,
(she used to own a sharpening business), so I'll order the 2 hp DC and
the startup kit... and hopefully be ready to assemble it and get it
working when it gets here..

Thanks to all that informed, confused and guided me... I know I'll
have a shitload of questions when I get it set up..

NOW.. the filtration system and the sanding box, once I finish the
project that's scattered all over the shop, waiting for assembly
tomorrow.. *groan*

In article <[email protected]>,
Greg O <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>I have a home built dust filter that I use when ever I am in the shop. No
>dust sparkling in the sun light in my shop.
>Greg
>
>

No dust sparkling through the sunlight in my shop, either, but then again,
I work in the basement.


--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
[email protected]

We had a pro shop with several dust collectors dedicated to tools and each
tool requires specific solutions. I found a 3 HP dust collector wasn't
enough for the table saw. We tried everything. The final solution was
actually a smaller dust collector and using an overhead guard to cover the
blade. We kept thinking bigger is better but found that smarter wins. The
chop saw was an adventure in itself. It took months to get it right.
max

> mac davis <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>>> If anyone reads this far down, I will probably get flamed for saying
>>> this, but...
>>> I find my DC almost useless on my TS and CMS. It really only works
>>> well on my router table, jointer, and planner. If you don't have
>>> those tools, I think you would be wasting your space and money on a
>>> DC. (I don't know about a RAS, as I don't have one)
>>> On the whole, I find my air cleaner a much better investment than my
>>> DC.
>>>
>> I'm actually thinking more of the shopsmith and router table..
>>
>> I've tried using the shop vac and building hoods and stuff for the RAS
>> and CMS and they just seem to spread the mess...
>>
>> It's amazing how much a good shop vac near the router bit on the SS
>> (think drill press) keeps the dust and chips down, so I'm thinking a
>> DC would really work well there...
>> Kind of a new experience, TRYING to buy something that I know sucks..
>> lol
>> The RAS is a really tough one, because something that works at all
>> when you 1st turn it on becomes almost useless as soon as you slide
>> the saw away from it on a cut..
>
> A DC moves much larger volumes of air, at somewhat slower speeds, than a
> shop vac. If your saw(s) can direct any portion of their chips/dust
> towards a hood, or a plenum, then the DC will/should be a big improvement.
>
> CMS is a challenge, however, unless you can move LOTS of air. The tool
> wasn't really designed for chip collection, and I don't know how it could
> be seriously changed for that, without turning into a RAS. There's a
> fellow posts here, handle of Rumpty, who seems to be the world's RAS
> expert. I'd bet a Google search would dig up some info.
>
> Just changing the pitch and volume of the scream of the shopvac is a MAJOR
> improvement in my enjoyment of the hobby.
>
> YMMV
>
> Patriarch

We wound up building a box around the back of the saw and the sides come
forward to the front fences on both sides. At the front to the right and
left of the saw are two sliding doors. When the saw is at 90 degrees the
doors are closed, when the saw is set for miters we have to move the doors
to clear the saw. We are using a 2 horsepower DC with a hose to the box and
a hose under the table. It collects almost everything. We can use this saw
for hours without dust escaping.
max

> max wrote:
>
>> The chop saw was an adventure in itself. It took
>> months to get it right.
>
> I'm interested in what the "right" solution was. Care to share? ;-)
>
> -- Mark
>
>

"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm ready to order a HF DC, but now I see that they have at least 4
> different models, from $99 dollars up...

Realizing you are cramped for space, I'm going to comment without regards to
space. The biggest space saver is no dust collector at all. Since you want
one, you think its important enough to allocate some space for it.

Ok here goes. You will have the best space utilization if you put the dust
collector in a corner or against the wall some where and put a network in
overhead. If you go with portable and drag it around, it will have a much
bigger impact on your space utilization.

Now having said that, I like the idea of getting something substantial 1 1/2
hp or larger. My dealer actually tried to convince me to settle on a 1 1/2
hp unit, even though I made it known I could pay for the 2 hp. I bought the
2 hp (Jet) and have never, ever regretted it. As a dust collector fills up
and filters get dirty, your collection efficiency goes down (like a vacuum
cleaner does when the bag gets full). A larger unit has more reserve and
provides enough capacity even when its degraded by partially full bags and
dirty filters.

Getting control of the dust in my shop made a huge difference in my
enjoyment of every minute I spend there. Now I need to figure out how to
control the mess when I get going with my No. 8 hand plane. :-)

Bob

Greg O wrote:
> "loutent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:131120041602582649%[email protected]...
>>
>>>
>> My BIY has a Delta dust collector with a 30 micron bag. When his
>> collector is running and the sun is streaming into his shop through a
>> window, it is unbelievable what you see escaping into the air.
>>
>>
>
> I have a home built dust filter that I use when ever I am in the
> shop. No dust sparkling in the sun light in my shop.

Details, please? I may want to "borrow" some ideas. ;-)

I have a "one stage" furnace-fan sanding table that uses just the standard
flat filters. I'm thinking about modifying it to have a 2nd stage that uses
automobile air filters to help get rid of the smaller dust particles.

Thanks.

-- Mark

> I use 1 RAS, CMS, shopsmith mostly for drilling and routing, and small
> power tools like drills, biscuit jointer, etc..
>
If anyone reads this far down, I will probably get flamed for saying this,
but...
I find my DC almost useless on my TS and CMS. It really only works well on
my router table, jointer, and planner. If you don't have those tools, I
think you would be wasting your space and money on a DC. (I don't know about
a RAS, as I don't have one)
On the whole, I find my air cleaner a much better investment than my DC.

max wrote:

> The chop saw was an adventure in itself. It took
> months to get it right.

I'm interested in what the "right" solution was. Care to share? ;-)

-- Mark

patrick conroy wrote:
> As for the cyclone - add it when you get around to it. It too will affect
> the entire system's "suckiness". Without it, you end up emptying the bottom
> bag more frequently, but big deal. The HF ain't one to brag about. I'm
> going to pop for the Lee Valley one, myself.


Emptying the can is *a* benefit but not the main one: it serves to protect the
impellor blades from every big chunk that the dust collector slurps up. They
should fall in the can BEFORE they hit the DC. For the little bit of money you
need to spend to get a garbage can and cyclone lid, it's cheap insurance.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[email protected]

Greg O wrote:
> I am almost embarassed to show mine!

LOL! Don't be. I'll be the dufus!

> It uses two
> 20"x20"x2" pleated paper air filters, back to back. When the outer
> one gets dirty I toss it, move the inner one out, with a new filter
> behind it.

I do similar, except I still have the original filers. ;-)

> Total cost, zip, nadda, nothing, 'cept for the filters. Even the
> switch was one that I scrounged off something years earlier and had
> been residing in a junk box.

You're singing my song! I love making useful thing from what other people
have already tossed.

> Sorry, the whole aparatus has zero wood working content, as far as
> building it, just metal!

Sorry, I don't agree. ;-) It supports your "habit", therefore it's 100%
woodworking. ;-)

> Now the na-sayers will be screaming that it don't get the sub-micron
> dust that will kill you in the long run. Well I donno. After all I
> used NOTHING before, other than the snot in my nose which used to get
> thick and dirty, but not comes out nice and clean and pristine. With
> it running I don't see any tiny floaters in the sun light, unless I
> have been sanding, which I have no means of collecting at this point,
> but after 15-20 minutes of running the filter on high, the air is
> clean again.
> I ingest more dust on construction sites daily than I will ever
> ingest in my shop!

I have lots of relatives who lived to 99 to 103 years old, but no one
(AFAIK) has made it beyond that. Since I'm 45 and have the habits of some
of my ancestors (smoking, drinking, ...) I figure on annoying the succeeding
generations for at least another 35 years. ;-) Based on my research not
breathing the small dust particles is a plus, and I intend on doing so. ;-)
I suggest you also get rid of the "floaters."

-- Mark

mac davis <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> I use 1 RAS, CMS, shopsmith mostly for drilling and routing, and small
> power tools like drills, biscuit jointer, etc..
>
<snip>

OK. The RAS, the CMS, the biscuit jointer, the routing and drill press
functions all produce larger chips, as well as 'fines'. The chips are what
messes up the shop, and have to be dragged out and dumped regularly. The
'fines' are what drifts everywhere, causes your breathing and allergy
issues, and means more work for whoever does the cleaning and dusting in
the house. You need to take care of both. Your gear produces all the same
stuff that bigger machines do, but maybe not quite so quickly.

If you buy a HF DC at about $150, consider that you are buying the
beginnings of a kit. You will want to replace the lower bag with a heavy
plastic bag, and the upper with either a filter (see the Bill Pentz site
that others have recommended), or with a better, 2 micron or better, bag
($30 and up). This deals with the 'fines'.

The chips are best dealt with using a trash can 'cyclone' seperator. These
can be assembled from purchased parts, or plumbing stuff from the hardware
store and scrap plywood or MDF. The one I finished yesterday was a
Rubbermaid Commercial trash can (*), two 4" S&D sweep 90's, and a 4" toilet
flange, and a 24" round of subflooring plywood. Hooked up to the 1.5 HP
DC, (**) there was NO visible collection of stuff in the plastic bag, after
3" of chips in the trash can. I'm planning to add a 2.5" port next week,
to handle the router table plumbing I've had for a couple of years.

Budget another $50 to $75 for piping and flex tube, clamps, hangers, caulk
flue sealers, etc. Like any other plumbing project, it will take three
trips to the supply house at a minimum.

Information here on the wReck was very helpful in putting my system
together - much better than most of the magazine articles I've read over
the past several years. Thanks, folks!

Patriarch

(*) Rubbermaid seems to believe that here is where the profitable portion
of the woodworking market lies.

(**) I bought a Delta 50-850, from the local Rockler retail site. They are
right near my home, and are really much easier to deal with, if something
should go wrong. Harbor Freight is a 40 mile drive, across a bridge, and
an uncertain 'customer experience'. Besides, Delta Grey color coordinates
with the drum in (*). And I got a discount for Delta Days.

mac davis <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>>If anyone reads this far down, I will probably get flamed for saying
>>this, but...
>>I find my DC almost useless on my TS and CMS. It really only works
>>well on my router table, jointer, and planner. If you don't have
>>those tools, I think you would be wasting your space and money on a
>>DC. (I don't know about a RAS, as I don't have one)
>>On the whole, I find my air cleaner a much better investment than my
>>DC.
>>
> I'm actually thinking more of the shopsmith and router table..
>
> I've tried using the shop vac and building hoods and stuff for the RAS
> and CMS and they just seem to spread the mess...
>
> It's amazing how much a good shop vac near the router bit on the SS
> (think drill press) keeps the dust and chips down, so I'm thinking a
> DC would really work well there...
> Kind of a new experience, TRYING to buy something that I know sucks..
> lol
> The RAS is a really tough one, because something that works at all
> when you 1st turn it on becomes almost useless as soon as you slide
> the saw away from it on a cut..

A DC moves much larger volumes of air, at somewhat slower speeds, than a
shop vac. If your saw(s) can direct any portion of their chips/dust
towards a hood, or a plenum, then the DC will/should be a big improvement.

CMS is a challenge, however, unless you can move LOTS of air. The tool
wasn't really designed for chip collection, and I don't know how it could
be seriously changed for that, without turning into a RAS. There's a
fellow posts here, handle of Rumpty, who seems to be the world's RAS
expert. I'd bet a Google search would dig up some info.

Just changing the pitch and volume of the scream of the shopvac is a MAJOR
improvement in my enjoyment of the hobby.

YMMV

Patriarch

"Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

<snip of building shop made dust filter>
> Total cost, zip, nadda, nothing, 'cept for the filters. Even the
> switch was one that I scrounged off something years earlier and had
> been residing in a junk box.
>

Encouraged by the success of all the handypersons out there, building their
own dust filters, I took a leap of faith Thursday. The HVAC guy was
replacing the heater at my son's apartment on the next block, and gave me
the functioning blower and motor, and instructions on how to wire it up.

I spent thirty minutes or so, just cleaning the grunge out of everywhere,
and wiping out the accumulation of dirty crud, and then wired it up,
EXACTLY as the nice fellow said, and proceeded to let all the magic smoke
out of the motor.

Walking around the block with the beast, still smoking, I tossed it onto
his truck, having lost all interest for the day.

Maybe another time.

Patriarch

My attempt at getting a blower for naught didn't work, so I bought one on
Ebay, plus a variable speed switch (from "greatsam" total $125). The
squirrel cage fan turned out about 5 times bigger than I had expected, but
it moves a lot of air! There was (hopefully still is) a site decribing my
box, but I lost the url. My wooden box is 15Wx24Lx20H, and has dual
filters on each side (20x24, one each regular=cheap and
Filtrete=expensive). It works beautifully, but it is big.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 19:29:01 GMT, "toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>You might give a hint as to what you want it for.
>>
> sorry.. we beat my original post to death and I thought everyone had
> read it and was tired of it.. *g*
>
> I'm getting back into wood working after a lot of years away from it..
> working in a 2 car garage that is still shared with wife & laundry
> machines, so I have about 2/3 of it..
>
<snip>

Mac, are you gonna have "da machine" in your garage too? Gotta keep the
dust off of that too.

Keep us informed with your progress with the DC as that is something else
still on the list...
--

FMB
(only one B in FMB)

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 21:39:08 -0600, "Greg O" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I am almost embarassed to show mine!
>I do HVAC work for a living. A couple of years back I replaced a furnace for
>someone, broght the old one home and cut the upper 1/2 of the funace off,
>leaving just the blower section. Next day after work I bent up some sheet
>metal to build a filter rack for it. It uses two 20"x20"x2" pleated paper
>air filters, back to back. When the outer one gets dirty I toss it, move the
>inner one out, with a new filter behind it. It has a three speed fan, but I
>put a three position, center off toggle switch on it, hi and low speeds
>only.
>
>Total cost, zip, nadda, nothing, 'cept for the filters. Even the switch was
>one that I scrounged off something years earlier and had been residing in a
>junk box.
>
>Sorry, the whole aparatus has zero wood working content, as far as building
>it, just metal!
>
>Now the na-sayers will be screaming that it don't get the sub-micron dust
>that will kill you in the long run. Well I donno. After all I used NOTHING
>before, other than the snot in my nose which used to get thick and dirty,
>but not comes out nice and clean and pristine. With it running I don't see
>any tiny floaters in the sun light, unless I have been sanding, which I have
>no means of collecting at this point, but after 15-20 minutes of running the
>filter on high, the air is clean again.
>I ingest more dust on construction sites daily than I will ever ingest in my
>shop!
>Greg
>
sort of like the one Ken Vaughn built..
http://home.earthlink.net/~kvaughn65j/dust.html

I'm waiting for someone in the neighborhood to buy a new furnace or
dump an old swamp cooler...

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:47:43 GMT, "Ace" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Have you looked at Grizzly's G1029Z? It has a .3 micron bag.
>
nope.. only the HF one so far, because I started a thread asking about
it, expecting a HF flame, and several folks actually have it and said
it was a good deal for the $150 price...

>"loutent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:121120041241290728%[email protected]...
>> Wait! That HF dust collector has a 30 micron bag which means all the
>> fine dust will be spewing back into your shop.
>>
>> Check out:
>>
>> http://www.pennstateind.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Co
>> de=E-10168A&Category_Code=
>>
>> (watch the wrap)
>>
>> this is a little more expensive, but has a 1 micron bag. I bought this
>> machine a few years bag with a 3 micron bag and it works very well. I
>> think you will be disappointed with 30 micron filtration.
>>
>> There are many other models/manufacturers, but whatever you choose, get
>> a good set of bags.
>>
>> Lou
>>
>> In article <[email protected]>, mac davis
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > I'm ready to order a HF DC, but now I see that they have at least 4
>> > different models, from $99 dollars up...
>> >
>> > I WAS going to order this one
>> > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45378
>> > which seems to be the normal HF 2 hp $159 model that I had posted
>> > questions about, priced at $149
>> >
>> > It looks like I would need this accessory kit, at a minimum, to get
>> > started
>> > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=47911
>> >
>> > which adds another $39
>> >
>> > Then, I saw this one
>> > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=3136
>> > which though only having 1 hp seems to be a better filtering machine
>> > and though higher priced, seems to come (I downloaded both manuals)
>> > with a Y and at least one hose..
>> >
>> > I'd like to order one of these today or tonight, so any help clearing
>> > my confusion is appreciated..
>> >
>> > ALSO.. HF doesn't seem to carry anything like a cyclone unit, except
>> > for a 5 gallon one with 2 1/2" fittings.. any suggestions on where to
>> > look for either a unit to buy or parts to build one?
>

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 15:39:37 GMT, mac davis <[email protected]> wrote:

>I'm ready to order a HF DC, but now I see that they have at least 4
>different models, from $99 dollars up...
<snip>
>ALSO.. HF doesn't seem to carry anything like a cyclone unit, except
>for a 5 gallon one with 2 1/2" fittings.. any suggestions on where to
>look for either a unit to buy or parts to build one?

Mac,

Before you do anything irreversible, I recommend that you spend some time on
Bill Pentz's web site at:

http://billpentz.com//woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm

I know the link contains the word "cyclone", but there is much more information
there than just about cyclones.


Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS USA

"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> I'm ready to order a HF DC, but now I see that they have at least 4
> different models, from $99 dollars up...

Welcome to the world of lies, damned lies, statistics and dust collectors.
I've been researching this for several weeks now. Damned frustrating.


>
> I WAS going to order this one
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45378
> which seems to be the normal HF 2 hp $159 model that I had posted
> questions about, priced at $149

Yeah - that's the one that everyone (who gets it) likes...


>
> It looks like I would need this accessory kit, at a minimum, to get
> started
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=47911
>

Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. You don't need it all of it. But you'd use most of it.
You *need* the hose for sure. The rest depends on what machines you're
hooking up. I bought a slew of the cheapie plastic blast gates. They work,
but they'll probably get replaced with better ones in my shop.


> Then, I saw this one
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=3136
> which though only having 1 hp seems to be a better filtering machine

But less power - and most likely less CFM and static pressure ratings. It's
very similar to the 1HP DC I have right now.

Sucking's all about CFMs and Static Pressure ratings (and a slew of other
variables). Personally (and speaking as an owner of a 1HP machine with .3
micron bags) - you go for the DC with higher ratings.

Yeah - the 1 micron (or better) bags improve a couple of things. But (a) you
can always buy those later and (b) they don't make your shop dustless or
eliminate the need for a dust mask or eliminate the utility of an air
filtration unit.
(http://www.toolseeker.com/WdWkMac/Dust/50-860.asp?var1=50-860)

As for the cyclone - add it when you get around to it. It too will affect
the entire system's "suckiness". Without it, you end up emptying the bottom
bag more frequently, but big deal. The HF ain't one to brag about. I'm
going to pop for the Lee Valley one, myself.

mac davis <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I'm ready to order a HF DC, but now I see that they have at least 4
> different models, from $99 dollars up...
>
> I WAS going to order this one
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45378
> which seems to be the normal HF 2 hp $159 model that I had posted
> questions about, priced at $149
>
> It looks like I would need this accessory kit, at a minimum, to get
> started
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=47911
>
> which adds another $39


I bought the $149.00 model from the local store. They didn't have the
kit, but I ordered some parts from grizzly.com.
>
> ALSO.. HF doesn't seem to carry anything like a cyclone unit, except
> for a 5 gallon one with 2 1/2" fittings.. any suggestions on where to
> look for either a unit to buy or parts to build one?

Grizzly has one for 4" hose, let me know if you find one for 5" hose.
The dust collector comes with the Y already you just need a hose.
Blast gates are only needed if you are trying to hook up multiple
machines at one time.

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 19:13:23 GMT, mac davis <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:47:43 GMT, "Ace" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Have you looked at Grizzly's G1029Z? It has a .3 micron bag.
>>
I just looked at it... $240 plus shipping...
and it looks like over kill for my 2 car garage...


the 1 hp one at HF for $190 with free shipping has:

"Y" inlet with 4'' connectors handles two machines
Super-high 1 micron filtration
VU-THRU filter bags
Lower: PE bag, 17 gallons
Upper: 1 micron bag, 19 gallons

this looks like a lot of machine for the money...

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 19:25:55 GMT, mac davis <[email protected]>
wrote:
forgot to mention this... others asked this about the $159 at HF:
The one for $190 comes wired for 11ov but has instructions in the
manual to wire it for 220...


>On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 19:13:23 GMT, mac davis <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:47:43 GMT, "Ace" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Have you looked at Grizzly's G1029Z? It has a .3 micron bag.
>>>
>I just looked at it... $240 plus shipping...
>and it looks like over kill for my 2 car garage...
>
>
>the 1 hp one at HF for $190 with free shipping has:
>
>"Y" inlet with 4'' connectors handles two machines
>Super-high 1 micron filtration
>VU-THRU filter bags
>Lower: PE bag, 17 gallons
>Upper: 1 micron bag, 19 gallons
>
>this looks like a lot of machine for the money...

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 19:23:38 GMT, Tom Veatch <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 15:39:37 GMT, mac davis <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I'm ready to order a HF DC, but now I see that they have at least 4
>>different models, from $99 dollars up...
><snip>
>>ALSO.. HF doesn't seem to carry anything like a cyclone unit, except
>>for a 5 gallon one with 2 1/2" fittings.. any suggestions on where to
>>look for either a unit to buy or parts to build one?
>
>Mac,
>
>Before you do anything irreversible, I recommend that you spend some time on
>Bill Pentz's web site at:
>
> http://billpentz.com//woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm
>
>I know the link contains the word "cyclone", but there is much more information
>there than just about cyclones.
>
>
>Tom Veatch
>Wichita, KS USA

thanks, Tom.. I'll check it out..

Does anyone actually trust HARBOR FREIGHT performance ratings? <G>

Has anyone actually verified any of the imported dust collector
claims? Would we know a 1 micron bag from a 30 micron bag by sight?

Barry

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 19:25:55 GMT, mac davis <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 19:13:23 GMT, mac davis <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:47:43 GMT, "Ace" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Have you looked at Grizzly's G1029Z? It has a .3 micron bag.
>>>
>I just looked at it... $240 plus shipping...
>and it looks like over kill for my 2 car garage...

==============
I have had a Griz 1029 for years...
and it is NOT overkill...
In fact it is marginal ...honestly anything less is a total waste

It keeps my shop a little cleaner and that was why I purchased
it...NOT for health reasons... IF you are concerned with health my
"Marginal" comment would change to USELESS...

Bob Griffiths

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 21:24:57 GMT, "toller" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>> I use 1 RAS, CMS, shopsmith mostly for drilling and routing, and small
>> power tools like drills, biscuit jointer, etc..
>>
>If anyone reads this far down, I will probably get flamed for saying this,
>but...
>I find my DC almost useless on my TS and CMS. It really only works well on
>my router table, jointer, and planner. If you don't have those tools, I
>think you would be wasting your space and money on a DC. (I don't know about
>a RAS, as I don't have one)
>On the whole, I find my air cleaner a much better investment than my DC.
>
I'm actually thinking more of the shopsmith and router table..

I've tried using the shop vac and building hoods and stuff for the RAS
and CMS and they just seem to spread the mess...

It's amazing how much a good shop vac near the router bit on the SS
(think drill press) keeps the dust and chips down, so I'm thinking a
DC would really work well there...
Kind of a new experience, TRYING to buy something that I know sucks..
lol
The RAS is a really tough one, because something that works at all
when you 1st turn it on becomes almost useless as soon as you slide
the saw away from it on a cut..

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 20:20:50 GMT, "Bob"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> I'm ready to order a HF DC, but now I see that they have at least 4
>> different models, from $99 dollars up...
>
>Realizing you are cramped for space, I'm going to comment without regards to
>space. The biggest space saver is no dust collector at all. Since you want
>one, you think its important enough to allocate some space for it.
>
>Ok here goes. You will have the best space utilization if you put the dust
>collector in a corner or against the wall some where and put a network in
>overhead. If you go with portable and drag it around, it will have a much
>bigger impact on your space utilization.
>
>Now having said that, I like the idea of getting something substantial 1 1/2
>hp or larger. My dealer actually tried to convince me to settle on a 1 1/2
>hp unit, even though I made it known I could pay for the 2 hp. I bought the
>2 hp (Jet) and have never, ever regretted it. As a dust collector fills up
>and filters get dirty, your collection efficiency goes down (like a vacuum
>cleaner does when the bag gets full). A larger unit has more reserve and
>provides enough capacity even when its degraded by partially full bags and
>dirty filters.
>
>Getting control of the dust in my shop made a huge difference in my
>enjoyment of every minute I spend there. Now I need to figure out how to
>control the mess when I get going with my No. 8 hand plane. :-)
>
>Bob
>
I'm planing on something like Ken Vaughn has in his shop, which is
larger than mine.. 3 or 4' hoses on each "station" that connect to his
DC hoses..

Doing measurements this morning, and figuring that a DC is about 40
gal water heater size, I have an empty wall area behind the shopsmith
that is about 12' or so from the RAS & CMS... it's sort of up for
grabs which needs DC more, the RAS or the shopsmith, since I do a lot
of long edge routing on the SS..
I think that if I have the DC available to the SS & RAS with blast
gates (see, I did learn something here), that most of my ]large] dust
concern will be met..
Then, the next project will be to build a filtration system..

Bottom line is still whether the $190 2 hp, 1 micron bag
or the $150 2 hp 30, micron bag would be better for my needs..
I'm kind of leaning towards the $190, after looking at grizzly and a
few other pages that folks here recommended, because it seems that
even though it's HF, it looks like my size machine for what I'm
doing.....

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 20:34:08 GMT, "Bob"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>> ALSO.. HF doesn't seem to carry anything like a cyclone unit, except
>> for a 5 gallon one with 2 1/2" fittings.. any suggestions on where to
>> look for either a unit to buy or parts to build one?
>
>I like the design Woodcraft has. http://tinyurl.com/6myq3
>
>But the one I like best is the one I made. I'm going to post some pictures
>this weekend of that and other stuff. It requires 3/4" plywood for the top
>and a couple of PVC pipe fittings and some clamps. A router is almost a
>must to be able to make it.
>
>Bob
>
Cool... The ol' tiny shop has a router table and a shopsmith with 1/2"
bits...
now, if they had a skilled operator.. *g*

mac davis wrote:
>I'm waiting for someone in the neighborhood to buy a new furnace or
>dump an old swamp cooler...


I was "making my rounds" one Saturday and stopped at a local
HVAC contractor. This contractor has a display set up in
the back of their shop that consists of a large heavy metal
container with no top and partially open on the front. A
nice man with a big truck comes each week and empties it so
the contractor can display new items for the following week.

Anyways, this week there on display were two brand new
blowers. One was sitting atop a tangled pile of black iron
pipe and the other was poised next to it and off to the left
slightly a kilter so as to draw your eye to it. I don't
know who set up this display but it certainly caught my eye.

Some people have called this "dumpster diving". This isn't
dumpster diving as they were both there on top by the front
of the opening. I prefer to call it "dumpster reaching".

UA100

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Emptying the can is *a* benefit but not the main one: it serves to
> protect the impellor blades from every big chunk that the dust collector
> slurps up. They should fall in the can BEFORE they hit the DC. For the
> little bit of money you need to spend to get a garbage can and cyclone
> lid, it's cheap insurance.

OK... But I take very light passes with the DW735...