If any of you are still looking for instruction, American Woodworker had
just jumped on board and will be posting about 4 times a week. The link
below takes you to the first post.
http://americanwoodworker.com/blogs/sketchup-with-joe-zeh/archive/2013/04/02/sketchup-comes-to-american-woodworker.aspx?utm_source=AWNL&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=AWNL_20130418
Mike M <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm with you, I have a laptop from when I worked because it was easier
> then trying to move files around all the time. I had desktops at each
> location though. Since I'm not working anymore I updated the home
> computer to Win 7pro and more memory then I know what to do with and
> two 1.5 TB drives. Now I just use the laptop in the shop, or when I
> want to work in front of the TV. The 15" screen just doesn't compare
> to the 23" on the desktop. As you said everyone needs to figure out
> their needs. Oh Bill the old Dell Lattitude 820 with an Nvidia video
> card running XP has no problem with sketchup 8.
Just the opposite of you and Leon.
After years of having as many as 20 boxes to deal with, and all the
attendant wiring and routing, I consider a desktop a compromise for the way
I now work, to the point that I haven't had one in the office for almost
six years.
Both my older Dell XPS1210 (Win8), and the newer XPS15 (Win7) are easily
attached to the 24" monitor on my office desk, giving me two simultaneous
displays, or go where I go; and both run SketchUp handily.
I generally leave the XPS15 in the office these days hooked to the 24"
monitor, and take the 1210 on the road when the IPad won't do the trick.
With a 1T USB drive going with me, and all devices synced to the cloud
(Dropbox and Evernote in particular), it makes little difference where I am
as far as business oriented computing.
--
www.ewoodshop.com (Mobile)
Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 4/18/2013 10:25 PM, Leon wrote:
>> If you are having graphic issues with Sketchup you probably need to
>> tweak your Sketchup settings. I had an old Dell and got less than
>> favorable results until I tweaked the settings.
>>
>> What kind of problems are you having?
>
> I've been shopping for a laptop. I just want to make sure whatever I end
> up with runs SU (very) well. The rest of what I would like in a laptop is:
>
> SSD drive (256 GB would be plenty more than adequate, 128 GB not quite
> enough), preferably a name-brand one like Intel. Not all SSDs are created
> equal (I will have to rely on consumer ratings).
My desk top has a 128 GB SSD primary drive and a 1TB data HD. Don't recall
the brand.
> i7-CPU
I originally wanted i7 but my neighbor, the guy in the computer business,
talked me out of it 2 years ago. At the time and foreseeable future no
software that was available or in the pipe line required it. I agreed with
i5 and the machine is Fast.
You might research if this is still true before spending extra money on
power that you may never use.
> several USB drives
Drives or ports?
> 1080p (Full HD, 1920x1080 resolution)
> Quiet ("Optimus" GPU switching?)
> Non-touch screeen
> Reliable-feeling keyboard
LOL, how does that feel exactly?
> Windows 7 or something "better" than Windows 8, preferably the
> professional version (but I expect to have to upgrade to get that).
Again my neighbor was only installing Win7 Pro on all of the computers he
sold.
>
> I'm not too picky, am I?
> ASUS seems to come closest. Maybe Toshiba?
>
My motherboard is ASUS..
> I am not in a hurry. My desktop is adequate for all essentials that I
> have to do. A conundrum is that most of the newer hardware has Windows8
> on it. Amusing that MSFT could throw a wrench into this purchasing experience! : )
I would look into having a local build you a machine, Tell him exactly
what you want the computer to do, not the components to use except for the
type components, ie Intel brand, SSD. Let him build the computer to your
needs and wants instead of settling for a "one of four choices" available
in the store situation.
>
> Bill
Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 4/19/2013 8:51 AM, Leon wrote:
>> Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> My motherboard is ASUS..
>>
>>
>>> I am not in a hurry. My desktop is adequate for all essentials that I
>>> have to do. A conundrum is that most of the newer hardware has Windows8
>>> on it. Amusing that MSFT could throw a wrench into this purchasing experience! : )
>>
>>
>> I would look into having a local build you a machine,
>
> I've assembled my last 3 desktops. But with a *laptop* it's not really an
> option--although I have found some "boutique laptop builders" online.
> Yes, the "14 choices in the store" is no fun at all. You can't even
> compare their specs very easily, let alone stuff that can't be seen. e.g.
> HP, I believe, has a reputation for bad hinges since their hinges are
> made out of 2 kinds of metal that interact with each other. They don't
> dispense that sort of into in the store. I read alot of reviews (maybe
> too many), probably most people just "pick one of the 4" in the store...
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> Tell him exactly
>> what you want the computer to do, not the components to use except for the
>> type components, ie Intel brand, SSD. Let him build the computer to your
>> needs and wants instead of settling for a "one of four choices" available
>> in the store situation.
Something not mentioned, but the most important requirement of all, your
video card:
http://support.google.com/sketchup/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=36208
Do not disregard the requirement for an openGL graphics card and you won't
have a problem on most any computer, desktop of laptop, running Sketchup.
--
www.ewoodshop.com (Mobile)
On Fri, 19 Apr 2013 20:28:27 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 4/19/2013 5:43 PM, Bill wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>> > Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> i7-CPU
>> >
>> > I originally wanted i7 but my neighbor, the guy in the computer
>> business,
>> > talked me out of it 2 years ago. At the time and foreseeable future no
>> > software that was available or in the pipe line required it. I
>> agreed with
>> > i5 and the machine is Fast.
>> > You might research if this is still true before spending extra money on
>> > power that you may never use.
>>
>> I read once that "if irritated by slow reponse time, then you need an
>> i-7". I have been bothered by lag of the wireless mice (mouses) I have
>> tried, and
>> haven't bothered to try a wireless keyboard for the same reason.
>>
>> IIRC, I use an i-5 at work and have not had any problems with it. I
>> haven't tried SU on it.
>> I'll double check. Silly that it didn't occur to me to use it as a
>> "benchmark".
>>
>> I have never owned a laptop.
>>
>> Thanks for helping me try to save some $$ which might be better spent.
>> Seriously though, one of the main things I like to see in a computer is
>> Quiet! : )
>> My desktop has a GPU with ambient cooling ("heat pipes") and uses an SSD.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>LOL. my computer has 5 fans. We had an issue when the computer was
>still under warranty, it would freeze up. My neighbor would come get it
>to work on it and find nothing, it only acted up at my house.
>Long story short the problem was an intermittently failing external
>Seagate HD. Once I quit hooking it back up I have been trouble free
>ever since.
>
>
>And I am not trying to tell you what to do here but I always thought I
>would like a lap top. They are great for portability but I bought one
>for my wife and one for my son for college. His home computer is again
>a desk top and I personally dont like the compromises that you have with
>a lap top. Given that, it is unbeatable if you need portability and or
>to be able to use it where there is no electricity.
I'm with you, I have a laptop from when I worked because it was easier
then trying to move files around all the time. I had desktops at each
location though. Since I'm not working anymore I updated the home
computer to Win 7pro and more memory then I know what to do with and
two 1.5 TB drives. Now I just use the laptop in the shop, or when I
want to work in front of the TV. The 15" screen just doesn't compare
to the 23" on the desktop. As you said everyone needs to figure out
their needs. Oh Bill the old Dell Lattitude 820 with an Nvidia video
card running XP has no problem with sketchup 8.
Mike M
Mike M
Bill <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I read once that "if irritated by slow reponse time, then you need an
> i-7". I have been bothered by lag of the wireless mice (mouses) I
> have tried, and
> haven't bothered to try a wireless keyboard for the same reason.
>
> IIRC, I use an i-5 at work and have not had any problems with it. I
> haven't tried SU on it.
> I'll double check. Silly that it didn't occur to me to use it as a
> "benchmark".
>
> I have never owned a laptop.
>
> Thanks for helping me try to save some $$ which might be better spent.
> Seriously though, one of the main things I like to see in a computer
> is Quiet! : )
> My desktop has a GPU with ambient cooling ("heat pipes") and uses an
> SSD.
>
> Bill
>
>
I'm a huge fan of my ThinkPad T510. I've mentioned that here before a
time or two. Good keyboard, it's quiet and runs cool. The trackpoint
(red eraser thingy) is the way to go for mouse-intensive tasks. It won't
leave your finger raw or cramped like the track pads do. (Plus, it
manages to stay out of the way most of the time while typing...after you
get used to it.)
If you want to custom configure a laptop, check out most manufacturer's
websites. Lenovo let me choose certain options as they were building it,
including SSD drives (not for me yet), OS version, video options, etc.
Toshiba was the same way, I assume others will be too.
Laptops are pretty good about allowing the RAM, Hard Drive, and Optical
Drive to be replaced, so if you don't like those it's not a problem.
One more note: weight is an issue. I had a 17" machine that weighs like
10 pounds (I think of it as a luggable rather than laptop) and went to a
smaller machine that weighs (picks up machine) about 4. Much nicer to
carry, and I don't really miss the extra screen size.
Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.
"Leon" wrote:
> I originally wanted i7 but my neighbor, the guy in the computer
business,
> talked me out of it 2 years ago. At the time and foreseeable
future no
> software that was available or in the pipe line required it. I
agreed with
> i5 and the machine is Fast.
> You might research if this is still true before spending extra
money on
> power that you may never use.
------------------------------------------------------------
SFWIW, recently was talking to a guy who operates an internet
business.
He has been operating long enough to have established a track
record for computer hardware to operate his business.
He is now standardizing on rebuilt Chinese IBM lap tops,remote
monitor, mouse & keyboard.
His comment, "We change batteries the first of every month".
"Keeps life simple".
YMMV
Lew
On 4/26/2013 11:52 PM, Bill wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
>>> Tell him exactly
>>>> what you want the computer to do, not the components to use except
>>>> for the
>>>> type components, ie Intel brand, SSD. Let him build the computer
>>>> to your
>>>> needs and wants instead of settling for a "one of four choices"
>>>> available
>>>> in the store situation.
>> Something not mentioned, but the most important requirement of all, your
>> video card:
>>
>> http://support.google.com/sketchup/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=36208
>>
>> Do not disregard the requirement for an openGL graphics card and you
>> won't
>> have a problem on most any computer, desktop of laptop, running Sketchup.
>>
>
> So here's the end, I hope, of my PC shopping story. Having spent plenty
> of time getting a feel for the laptop market, I just ordered this one,
> "Like new" for $527.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/N56VM-AB71-Full-HD-1080P-15-6-Inch-Laptop/dp/B008HDOEG8/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1367033715&sr=1-1&keywords=v56vm-ab71
>
>
> If it doesn't live up to its promise ("like new"--as in, it better
> work!), I have 30 days to send it back. They distributer had at least 10
> more to sell-otherwise it would bother me more that I am buying used
> from an "unknown entity". I suspect it's probably refurbished. It's
> the best value I found in a 1920x1080 resolution laptop. And, it has
> Windows 7! : )
>
> This model has a reputation for running a little warm since it has a
> 7200 RPM HDD, rather than 5400 RPM which seem to be more popular. I
> should probably let it run for a few days, to "stress test it" assuming
> this is not imprudent, is it (I never had a laptop)?
>
> It's real easy to fall into "feature creep" looking at computers. I
> tried not to spend "stupid" money on this--hopefully it will work out.
> For heaven's sake, you can spend more on a laptop than a decent cabinet
> saw!
>
> Bill
No burn in required.
Just make sure it has no viruses in it already.
--
Jeff
On Apr 19, 8:28 pm, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> And I am not trying to tell you what to do here but I always thought I
> would like a lap top. They are great for portability but I bought one
> for my wife and one for my son for college. His home computer is again
> a desk top and I personally dont like the compromises that you have with
> a lap top. Given that, it is unbeatable if you need portability and or
> to be able to use it where there is no electricity.
Over the years I have had 3 laptops and 1 luggable suitcase
computer.
About a year ago I bought the machine I am typing on now, and couldn't
be happier. As usual, I feel like I was a bit too tight and should
have bought it earlier, but can't redo the past.
I bought it for several reasons. My business is as small as it has
ever been, and now I do everything for it including washing dishes.
So the first thing that made sense to me was that I could take my
documents, contract forms, invoicing and communications with me where
I went through my day.
Free wireless is everywhere. I store no passwords on my computer,
never check "remember me" on any websites, and I don't log onto my
accounts at Starbucks. The cigar shop I frequent has great security
(the guy that set it up is an old wonk, techno geek guy that is hyper
paranoid about security) and if I need to access my email from there
it is great. Occasionally I do break my own protocol when I get the
call of "hey Robert, if you can get your invoice over to me this
afternoon I can it in the pay cycle". I stop at any place that has
wireless, type out the invoice, log in for about a minute and then
send it off.
Same with a contract modification. Same with a report that needs a
clarification. Same a picture that needs to be sent to reinforce my
suggestions for repairs. Stop somewhere get a glass of tea, get done
what I need to do offline, then log on, fire it off, log off.
Last month, I had taken a bunch of pics with my high res camera for a
roof inspection. My suggestion was that the tile roof needed a lot of
detail work to keep it watertight and to remedy the existing leaks and
my estimate reflected that. My client isn't going to go stomping
around in his roof, but wanted to know what I saw. Across town from
my HO, but near the client, I stopped in Office Depot and bought a ten
pack of CDs for 6 bucks, burned 320 mb of pics (not resized,
obviously, and dpi set at 300 for clarity) onto a CD an delivered it
to his office within an hour.
He thinks I have a large, efficient support staff and was impressed by
how fast I was. He would be much less impressed if he knew I bought
the CDs, went to McDonalds and got a tea and burned the pics to a disc
in a restaurant full of screaming kids and old people.
At $3.60 for gas, and 10 miles to a gallon with my truck, I can't even
imagine how much money this machine has saved me driving back to my
office for simple clerical tasks. I am no longer tethered to my home
office. If I am working across the city and finish late in the day
and don't want to spend an hour plus in traffic, I can pull over and
work just about anywhere.
I have an ASUS computer, and when I bought it they claimed about 6
hours of battery life. As with my other computers I immediately cut
that by 75% thinking that would be about right. Nope. One time (all
power savings devices activated) it lasted 6 hrs and 14 minutes before
failure. I can easily work 5 hours (doing my normal tasks, not
watching BluRay movies) without any power if I start with a full
charge.
The keyboard is large enough to be comfortable, and the screen is
excellent. This machine has one HDMI out for use as a presentations
machine, DVI out for use with a monitor, 3 USB ports with one being
USB 3, bluetooth, a regular NIC card/cable connection which I like for
secure computing, and an excellent wireless adaptor that works
everywhere I have been so far.
With an i5 processor, 750G HDD, 6 G or usable RAM, and a pretty good
video card, it is more computer than I have ever had AND I can take it
with me.
Robert
On 4/18/2013 6:28 PM, Leon wrote:
> If any of you are still looking for instruction, American Woodworker had
> just jumped on board and will be posting about 4 times a week. The link
> below takes you to the first post.
>
> http://americanwoodworker.com/blogs/sketchup-with-joe-zeh/archive/2013/04/02/sketchup-comes-to-american-woodworker.aspx?utm_source=AWNL&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=AWNL_20130418
>
Ooops 4 times a month!
On 4/19/2013 8:15 AM, Bill wrote:
> On 4/19/2013 8:51 AM, Leon wrote:
>> Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> My motherboard is ASUS..
>>
>>
>>> I am not in a hurry. My desktop is adequate for all essentials that I
>>> have to do. A conundrum is that most of the newer hardware has Windows8
>>> on it. Amusing that MSFT could throw a wrench into this purchasing
>>> experience! : )
>>
>>
>> I would look into having a local build you a machine,
>
> I've assembled my last 3 desktops. But with a *laptop* it's not really
> an option--although I have found some "boutique laptop builders" online.
> Yes, the "14 choices in the store" is no fun at all. You can't even
> compare their specs very easily, let alone stuff that can't be seen.
> e.g. HP, I believe, has a reputation for bad hinges since their hinges
> are made out of 2 kinds of metal that interact with each other. They
> don't dispense that sort of into in the store. I read alot of reviews
> (maybe too many), probably most people just "pick one of the 4" in the
> store...
>
> Bill
>
>
Most any one can build a computer, your local builder should be able to
pick out the parts that play nicely together and with out you having to
over buy.
On 4/19/2013 5:43 PM, Bill wrote:
> Leon wrote:
> > Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> i7-CPU
> >
> > I originally wanted i7 but my neighbor, the guy in the computer
> business,
> > talked me out of it 2 years ago. At the time and foreseeable future no
> > software that was available or in the pipe line required it. I
> agreed with
> > i5 and the machine is Fast.
> > You might research if this is still true before spending extra money on
> > power that you may never use.
>
> I read once that "if irritated by slow reponse time, then you need an
> i-7". I have been bothered by lag of the wireless mice (mouses) I have
> tried, and
> haven't bothered to try a wireless keyboard for the same reason.
>
> IIRC, I use an i-5 at work and have not had any problems with it. I
> haven't tried SU on it.
> I'll double check. Silly that it didn't occur to me to use it as a
> "benchmark".
>
> I have never owned a laptop.
>
> Thanks for helping me try to save some $$ which might be better spent.
> Seriously though, one of the main things I like to see in a computer is
> Quiet! : )
> My desktop has a GPU with ambient cooling ("heat pipes") and uses an SSD.
>
> Bill
>
>
LOL. my computer has 5 fans. We had an issue when the computer was
still under warranty, it would freeze up. My neighbor would come get it
to work on it and find nothing, it only acted up at my house.
Long story short the problem was an intermittently failing external
Seagate HD. Once I quit hooking it back up I have been trouble free
ever since.
And I am not trying to tell you what to do here but I always thought I
would like a lap top. They are great for portability but I bought one
for my wife and one for my son for college. His home computer is again
a desk top and I personally dont like the compromises that you have with
a lap top. Given that, it is unbeatable if you need portability and or
to be able to use it where there is no electricity.
On 4/20/2013 3:59 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Apr 19, 8:28 pm, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>> And I am not trying to tell you what to do here but I always thought I
>> would like a lap top. They are great for portability but I bought one
>> for my wife and one for my son for college. His home computer is again
>> a desk top and I personally dont like the compromises that you have with
>> a lap top. Given that, it is unbeatable if you need portability and or
>> to be able to use it where there is no electricity.
>
> Over the years I have had 3 laptops and 1 luggable suitcase
> computer.
>
> About a year ago I bought the machine I am typing on now, and couldn't
> be happier. As usual, I feel like I was a bit too tight and should
> have bought it earlier, but can't redo the past.
>
> I bought it for several reasons. My business is as small as it has
> ever been, and now I do everything for it including washing dishes.
> So the first thing that made sense to me was that I could take my
> documents, contract forms, invoicing and communications with me where
> I went through my day.
>
> Free wireless is everywhere. I store no passwords on my computer,
> never check "remember me" on any websites, and I don't log onto my
> accounts at Starbucks. The cigar shop I frequent has great security
> (the guy that set it up is an old wonk, techno geek guy that is hyper
> paranoid about security) and if I need to access my email from there
> it is great. Occasionally I do break my own protocol when I get the
> call of "hey Robert, if you can get your invoice over to me this
> afternoon I can it in the pay cycle". I stop at any place that has
> wireless, type out the invoice, log in for about a minute and then
> send it off.
>
> Same with a contract modification. Same with a report that needs a
> clarification. Same a picture that needs to be sent to reinforce my
> suggestions for repairs. Stop somewhere get a glass of tea, get done
> what I need to do offline, then log on, fire it off, log off.
>
> Last month, I had taken a bunch of pics with my high res camera for a
> roof inspection. My suggestion was that the tile roof needed a lot of
> detail work to keep it watertight and to remedy the existing leaks and
> my estimate reflected that. My client isn't going to go stomping
> around in his roof, but wanted to know what I saw. Across town from
> my HO, but near the client, I stopped in Office Depot and bought a ten
> pack of CDs for 6 bucks, burned 320 mb of pics (not resized,
> obviously, and dpi set at 300 for clarity) onto a CD an delivered it
> to his office within an hour.
>
> He thinks I have a large, efficient support staff and was impressed by
> how fast I was. He would be much less impressed if he knew I bought
> the CDs, went to McDonalds and got a tea and burned the pics to a disc
> in a restaurant full of screaming kids and old people.
>
> At $3.60 for gas, and 10 miles to a gallon with my truck, I can't even
> imagine how much money this machine has saved me driving back to my
> office for simple clerical tasks. I am no longer tethered to my home
> office. If I am working across the city and finish late in the day
> and don't want to spend an hour plus in traffic, I can pull over and
> work just about anywhere.
>
> I have an ASUS computer, and when I bought it they claimed about 6
> hours of battery life. As with my other computers I immediately cut
> that by 75% thinking that would be about right. Nope. One time (all
> power savings devices activated) it lasted 6 hrs and 14 minutes before
> failure. I can easily work 5 hours (doing my normal tasks, not
> watching BluRay movies) without any power if I start with a full
> charge.
>
> The keyboard is large enough to be comfortable, and the screen is
> excellent. This machine has one HDMI out for use as a presentations
> machine, DVI out for use with a monitor, 3 USB ports with one being
> USB 3, bluetooth, a regular NIC card/cable connection which I like for
> secure computing, and an excellent wireless adaptor that works
> everywhere I have been so far.
>
> With an i5 processor, 750G HDD, 6 G or usable RAM, and a pretty good
> video card, it is more computer than I have ever had AND I can take it
> with me.
>
> Robert
>
I too picked up an ASUS I5 for $349 on sale... A K55A 500gb disk and 4gb
of memory, added a 4gb stick and I am really happy. It's fast, and Win7.
Wish I had bought two or 3.
I could easily use them, 2 more for Linux.
--
Jeff
On 4/20/2013 1:03 PM, Bill wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
>> Mike M <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm with you, I have a laptop from when I worked because it was easier
>>> then trying to move files around all the time. I had desktops at each
>>> location though. Since I'm not working anymore I updated the home
>>> computer to Win 7pro and more memory then I know what to do with and
>>> two 1.5 TB drives. Now I just use the laptop in the shop, or when I
>>> want to work in front of the TV. The 15" screen just doesn't compare
>>> to the 23" on the desktop. As you said everyone needs to figure out
>>> their needs. Oh Bill the old Dell Lattitude 820 with an Nvidia video
>>> card running XP has no problem with sketchup 8.
>> Just the opposite of you and Leon.
>>
>> After years of having as many as 20 boxes to deal with, and all the
>> attendant wiring and routing, I consider a desktop a compromise for
>> the way
>> I now work, to the point that I haven't had one in the office for almost
>> six years.
>>
>> Both my older Dell XPS1210 (Win8), and the newer XPS15 (Win7) are easily
>> attached to the 24" monitor on my office desk, giving me two simultaneous
>> displays, or go where I go; and both run SketchUp handily.
>
> I looked up the XPS1210, and it has a discrete graphics card
> (nVidia GeForce 7400). Not a slouch. Thank you for providing
> another data point. Due to astigmatism in my eyes, I'd prefer a
> larger screen or I won't enjoy using it very much.
>
> Bill
>
>>
>> I generally leave the XPS15 in the office these days hooked to the 24"
>> monitor, and take the 1210 on the road when the IPad won't do the trick.
>> With a 1T USB drive going with me, and all devices synced to the cloud
>> (Dropbox and Evernote in particular), it makes little difference where
>> I am
>> as far as business oriented computing.
>>
>
If you like LInux Bill stay away from anything NVIDIA since they won't
provide basic driver info to the Linux world.
But if you like Linux you probably already knew that.
I stay away from NVIDIA
--
Jeff
Leon wrote:
> If any of you are still looking for instruction, American Woodworker
had just jumped on board and will be posting about 4 times a week. The
link below takes you to the first post.
>
>
http://americanwoodworker.com/blogs/sketchup-with-joe-zeh/archive/2013/04/02/sketchup-comes-to-american-woodworker.aspx?utm_source=AWNL&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=AWNL_20130418
Just curious. Is anyone running this well on HD4000 built-in graphics.
I'm pretty sure "discrete graphics" would do better. Nvidia GT-6XXm???
635? 650?
I have reached the point where I am waiting for the next operating
system after Windows8. If the industry can't do a little better, I'm not
going to encourage them. It's like they are not even trying--laptops
with SSD drives are relatively scarce. I mean an SSD drive would seem
to be a natural fit for a laptop, yet you would never know it from most
offerings.AndI assembled a desktop have one 3 years ago! I guess the
suppliers just can't make as much money that way...
Bill
Bill wrote:
> Just curious. Is anyone running this well on HD4000 built-in graphics.
> I'm pretty sure "discrete graphics" would do better. Nvidia GT-6XXm???
> 635? 650?
>
> I have reached the point where I am waiting for the next operating
> system after Windows8. If the industry can't do a little better, I'm
> not going to encourage them. It's like they are not even
> trying--laptops with SSD drives are relatively scarce. I mean an SSD
> drive would seem to be a natural fit for a laptop, yet you would
> never know it from most offerings.AndI assembled a desktop have one 3
> years ago! I guess the suppliers just can't make as much money that
> way...
Don't know (and don't care...) what is in my laptop - it runs Sketchup just
fine. It's just a lowly Dell Inspiron that is about 6 years old.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On 4/18/2013 10:25 PM, Leon wrote:
> If you are having graphic issues with Sketchup you probably need to
> tweak your Sketchup settings. I had an old Dell and got less than
> favorable results until I tweaked the settings.
>
> What kind of problems are you having?
I've been shopping for a laptop. I just want to make sure whatever I
end up with runs SU (very) well. The rest of what I would like in a
laptop is:
SSD drive (256 GB would be plenty more than adequate, 128 GB not quite
enough), preferably a name-brand one like Intel. Not all SSDs are
created equal (I will have to rely on consumer ratings).
i7-CPU
several USB drives
1080p (Full HD, 1920x1080 resolution)
Quiet ("Optimus" GPU switching?)
Non-touch screeen
Reliable-feeling keyboard
Windows 7 or something "better" than Windows 8, preferably the
professional version (but I expect to have to upgrade to get that).
I'm not too picky, am I?
ASUS seems to come closest. Maybe Toshiba?
I am not in a hurry. My desktop is adequate for all essentials that I
have to do. A conundrum is that most of the newer hardware has Windows8
on it. Amusing that MSFT could throw a wrench into this purchasing
experience! : )
Bill
On 4/18/2013 9:42 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>
>> Just curious. Is anyone running this well on HD4000 built-in graphics.
>> I'm pretty sure "discrete graphics" would do better. Nvidia GT-6XXm???
>> 635? 650?
>>
>> I have reached the point where I am waiting for the next operating
>> system after Windows8. If the industry can't do a little better, I'm
>> not going to encourage them. It's like they are not even
>> trying--laptops with SSD drives are relatively scarce. I mean an SSD
>> drive would seem to be a natural fit for a laptop, yet you would
>> never know it from most offerings.AndI assembled a desktop have one 3
>> years ago! I guess the suppliers just can't make as much money that
>> way...
>
> Don't know (and don't care...) what is in my laptop - it runs Sketchup just
> fine. It's just a lowly Dell Inspiron that is about 6 years old.
>
Thanks Mike. That's a good reference point for me--and one that may
help to save me several hundred dollars. As far as I know, SU is the
most graphically demanding application that I run.
Bill
On 4/19/2013 8:51 AM, Leon wrote:
> Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
> My motherboard is ASUS..
>
>
>> I am not in a hurry. My desktop is adequate for all essentials that I
>> have to do. A conundrum is that most of the newer hardware has Windows8
>> on it. Amusing that MSFT could throw a wrench into this purchasing experience! : )
>
>
> I would look into having a local build you a machine,
I've assembled my last 3 desktops. But with a *laptop* it's not really
an option--although I have found some "boutique laptop builders" online.
Yes, the "14 choices in the store" is no fun at all. You can't even
compare their specs very easily, let alone stuff that can't be seen.
e.g. HP, I believe, has a reputation for bad hinges since their hinges
are made out of 2 kinds of metal that interact with each other. They
don't dispense that sort of into in the store. I read alot of reviews
(maybe too many), probably most people just "pick one of the 4" in the
store...
Bill
Tell him exactly
> what you want the computer to do, not the components to use except for the
> type components, ie Intel brand, SSD. Let him build the computer to your
> needs and wants instead of settling for a "one of four choices" available
> in the store situation.
>
>
>
>
>>
>> Bill
On 4/19/2013 9:46 AM, Swingman wrote:
> Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 4/19/2013 8:51 AM, Leon wrote:
>>> Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> My motherboard is ASUS..
>>>
>>>
>>>> I am not in a hurry. My desktop is adequate for all essentials that I
>>>> have to do. A conundrum is that most of the newer hardware has Windows8
>>>> on it. Amusing that MSFT could throw a wrench into this purchasing experience! : )
>>>
>>>
>>> I would look into having a local build you a machine,
>>
>> I've assembled my last 3 desktops. But with a *laptop* it's not really an
>> option--although I have found some "boutique laptop builders" online.
>> Yes, the "14 choices in the store" is no fun at all. You can't even
>> compare their specs very easily, let alone stuff that can't be seen. e.g.
>> HP, I believe, has a reputation for bad hinges since their hinges are
>> made out of 2 kinds of metal that interact with each other. They don't
>> dispense that sort of into in the store. I read alot of reviews (maybe
>> too many), probably most people just "pick one of the 4" in the store...
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>>
>> Tell him exactly
>>> what you want the computer to do, not the components to use except for the
>>> type components, ie Intel brand, SSD. Let him build the computer to your
>>> needs and wants instead of settling for a "one of four choices" available
>>> in the store situation.
>
> Something not mentioned, but the most important requirement of all, your
> video card:
Yes, I didn't mention it because that question was the basis for my
post: Whether HD4000 was up to the task of running SU.
I had tried to locate information like in the link below. Thank you for
posting it. I doubt HD400 is a 3D-GPU (as described at the link), but I
will learn a little more about the whole matter, whether I like it or
not! ; )
>
> http://support.google.com/sketchup/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=36208
>
> Do not disregard the requirement for an openGL graphics card and you won't
> have a problem on most any computer, desktop of laptop, running Sketchup.
>
On 4/19/2013 5:29 AM, Bill wrote:
> SSD drive (256 GB would be plenty more than adequate, 128 GB not quite
> enough), preferably a name-brand one like Intel. Not all SSDs are
> created equal (I will have to rely on consumer ratings).
> i7-CPU
> several USB drives
> 1080p (Full HD, 1920x1080 resolution)
> Quiet ("Optimus" GPU switching?)
> Non-touch screeen
> Reliable-feeling keyboard
> Windows 7 or something "better" than Windows 8, preferably the
> professional version (but I expect to have to upgrade to get that).
You won't find that in any low end laptops but here is several with
your requirements:
http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPortal/en_US/catalog.workflow:category.details?action=init¤t-catalog-id=12F0696583E04D8
Leon wrote:
> Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>> i7-CPU
>
> I originally wanted i7 but my neighbor, the guy in the computer business,
> talked me out of it 2 years ago. At the time and foreseeable future no
> software that was available or in the pipe line required it. I
agreed with
> i5 and the machine is Fast.
> You might research if this is still true before spending extra money on
> power that you may never use.
I read once that "if irritated by slow reponse time, then you need an
i-7". I have been bothered by lag of the wireless mice (mouses) I have
tried, and
haven't bothered to try a wireless keyboard for the same reason.
IIRC, I use an i-5 at work and have not had any problems with it. I
haven't tried SU on it.
I'll double check. Silly that it didn't occur to me to use it as a
"benchmark".
I have never owned a laptop.
Thanks for helping me try to save some $$ which might be better spent.
Seriously though, one of the main things I like to see in a computer is
Quiet! : )
My desktop has a GPU with ambient cooling ("heat pipes") and uses an SSD.
Bill
Leon wrote:
> On 4/19/2013 5:43 PM, Bill wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>> > Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> i7-CPU
>> >
>> > I originally wanted i7 but my neighbor, the guy in the computer
>> business,
>> > talked me out of it 2 years ago. At the time and foreseeable
>> future no
>> > software that was available or in the pipe line required it. I
>> agreed with
>> > i5 and the machine is Fast.
>> > You might research if this is still true before spending extra
>> money on
>> > power that you may never use.
>>
>> I read once that "if irritated by slow reponse time, then you need an
>> i-7". I have been bothered by lag of the wireless mice (mouses) I have
>> tried, and
>> haven't bothered to try a wireless keyboard for the same reason.
>>
>> IIRC, I use an i-5 at work and have not had any problems with it. I
>> haven't tried SU on it.
>> I'll double check. Silly that it didn't occur to me to use it as a
>> "benchmark".
>>
>> I have never owned a laptop.
>>
>> Thanks for helping me try to save some $$ which might be better spent.
>> Seriously though, one of the main things I like to see in a computer is
>> Quiet! : )
>> My desktop has a GPU with ambient cooling ("heat pipes") and uses an
>> SSD.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
> LOL. my computer has 5 fans.
Yes, I made sure that I bought a power supply with a very low
decibel level too! : )
Your system is only as quiet as your loudest fast!
> We had an issue when the computer was still under warranty, it would
> freeze up. My neighbor would come get it to work on it and find
> nothing, it only acted up at my house.
> Long story short the problem was an intermittently failing external
> Seagate HD. Once I quit hooking it back up I have been trouble free
> ever since.
>
>
> And I am not trying to tell you what to do here but I always thought I
> would like a lap top. They are great for portability
Yep, that's the whole thing (portability).
Good luck getting your new saw properly settled-in!
Bill
> but I bought one for my wife and one for my son for college. His home
> computer is again a desk top and I personally dont like the
> compromises that you have with a lap top. Given that, it is
> unbeatable if you need portability and or to be able to use it where
> there is no electricity.
Swingman wrote:
> Mike M <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I'm with you, I have a laptop from when I worked because it was easier
>> then trying to move files around all the time. I had desktops at each
>> location though. Since I'm not working anymore I updated the home
>> computer to Win 7pro and more memory then I know what to do with and
>> two 1.5 TB drives. Now I just use the laptop in the shop, or when I
>> want to work in front of the TV. The 15" screen just doesn't compare
>> to the 23" on the desktop. As you said everyone needs to figure out
>> their needs. Oh Bill the old Dell Lattitude 820 with an Nvidia video
>> card running XP has no problem with sketchup 8.
> Just the opposite of you and Leon.
>
> After years of having as many as 20 boxes to deal with, and all the
> attendant wiring and routing, I consider a desktop a compromise for the way
> I now work, to the point that I haven't had one in the office for almost
> six years.
>
> Both my older Dell XPS1210 (Win8), and the newer XPS15 (Win7) are easily
> attached to the 24" monitor on my office desk, giving me two simultaneous
> displays, or go where I go; and both run SketchUp handily.
I looked up the XPS1210, and it has a discrete graphics card
(nVidia GeForce 7400). Not a slouch. Thank you for providing
another data point. Due to astigmatism in my eyes, I'd prefer a
larger screen or I won't enjoy using it very much.
Bill
>
> I generally leave the XPS15 in the office these days hooked to the 24"
> monitor, and take the 1210 on the road when the IPad won't do the trick.
> With a 1T USB drive going with me, and all devices synced to the cloud
> (Dropbox and Evernote in particular), it makes little difference where I am
> as far as business oriented computing.
>
[email protected] wrote:
> On Apr 19, 8:28 pm, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>> And I am not trying to tell you what to do here but I always thought I
>> would like a lap top. They are great for portability but I bought one
>> for my wife and one for my son for college. His home computer is again
>> a desk top and I personally dont like the compromises that you have with
>> a lap top. Given that, it is unbeatable if you need portability and or
>> to be able to use it where there is no electricity.
> Over the years I have had 3 laptops and 1 luggable suitcase
> computer.
>
> About a year ago I bought the machine I am typing on now, and couldn't
> be happier. As usual, I feel like I was a bit too tight and should
> have bought it earlier, but can't redo the past.
>
> I bought it for several reasons. My business is as small as it has
> ever been, and now I do everything for it including washing dishes.
> So the first thing that made sense to me was that I could take my
> documents, contract forms, invoicing and communications with me where
> I went through my day.
>
> Free wireless is everywhere. I store no passwords on my computer,
> never check "remember me" on any websites, and I don't log onto my
> accounts at Starbucks. The cigar shop I frequent has great security
> (the guy that set it up is an old wonk, techno geek guy that is hyper
> paranoid about security) and if I need to access my email from there
> it is great. Occasionally I do break my own protocol when I get the
> call of "hey Robert, if you can get your invoice over to me this
> afternoon I can it in the pay cycle". I stop at any place that has
> wireless, type out the invoice, log in for about a minute and then
> send it off.
>
> Same with a contract modification. Same with a report that needs a
> clarification. Same a picture that needs to be sent to reinforce my
> suggestions for repairs. Stop somewhere get a glass of tea, get done
> what I need to do offline, then log on, fire it off, log off.
>
> Last month, I had taken a bunch of pics with my high res camera for a
> roof inspection. My suggestion was that the tile roof needed a lot of
> detail work to keep it watertight and to remedy the existing leaks and
> my estimate reflected that. My client isn't going to go stomping
> around in his roof, but wanted to know what I saw. Across town from
> my HO, but near the client, I stopped in Office Depot and bought a ten
> pack of CDs for 6 bucks, burned 320 mb of pics (not resized,
> obviously, and dpi set at 300 for clarity) onto a CD an delivered it
> to his office within an hour.
>
> He thinks I have a large, efficient support staff and was impressed by
> how fast I was. He would be much less impressed if he knew I bought
> the CDs, went to McDonalds and got a tea and burned the pics to a disc
> in a restaurant full of screaming kids and old people.
>
> At $3.60 for gas, and 10 miles to a gallon with my truck, I can't even
> imagine how much money this machine has saved me driving back to my
> office for simple clerical tasks. I am no longer tethered to my home
> office. If I am working across the city and finish late in the day
> and don't want to spend an hour plus in traffic, I can pull over and
> work just about anywhere.
>
> I have an ASUS computer, and when I bought it they claimed about 6
> hours of battery life. As with my other computers I immediately cut
> that by 75% thinking that would be about right. Nope. One time (all
> power savings devices activated) it lasted 6 hrs and 14 minutes before
> failure. I can easily work 5 hours (doing my normal tasks, not
> watching BluRay movies) without any power if I start with a full
> charge.
>
> The keyboard is large enough to be comfortable, and the screen is
> excellent. This machine has one HDMI out for use as a presentations
> machine, DVI out for use with a monitor, 3 USB ports with one being
> USB 3, bluetooth, a regular NIC card/cable connection which I like for
> secure computing, and an excellent wireless adaptor that works
> everywhere I have been so far.
>
> With an i5 processor, 750G HDD, 6 G or usable RAM, and a pretty good
> video card, it is more computer than I have ever had AND I can take it
> with me.
>
> Robert
Thanks for an interesting statement/review!
Bill
woodchucker wrote:
> On 4/20/2013 1:03 PM, Bill wrote:
>> Swingman wrote:
>>> Mike M <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm with you, I have a laptop from when I worked because it was easier
>>>> then trying to move files around all the time. I had desktops at each
>>>> location though. Since I'm not working anymore I updated the home
>>>> computer to Win 7pro and more memory then I know what to do with and
>>>> two 1.5 TB drives. Now I just use the laptop in the shop, or when I
>>>> want to work in front of the TV. The 15" screen just doesn't compare
>>>> to the 23" on the desktop. As you said everyone needs to figure out
>>>> their needs. Oh Bill the old Dell Lattitude 820 with an Nvidia video
>>>> card running XP has no problem with sketchup 8.
>>> Just the opposite of you and Leon.
>>>
>>> After years of having as many as 20 boxes to deal with, and all the
>>> attendant wiring and routing, I consider a desktop a compromise for
>>> the way
>>> I now work, to the point that I haven't had one in the office for
>>> almost
>>> six years.
>>>
>>> Both my older Dell XPS1210 (Win8), and the newer XPS15 (Win7) are
>>> easily
>>> attached to the 24" monitor on my office desk, giving me two
>>> simultaneous
>>> displays, or go where I go; and both run SketchUp handily.
>>
>> I looked up the XPS1210, and it has a discrete graphics card
>> (nVidia GeForce 7400). Not a slouch. Thank you for providing
>> another data point. Due to astigmatism in my eyes, I'd prefer a
>> larger screen or I won't enjoy using it very much.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>>
>>> I generally leave the XPS15 in the office these days hooked to the 24"
>>> monitor, and take the 1210 on the road when the IPad won't do the
>>> trick.
>>> With a 1T USB drive going with me, and all devices synced to the cloud
>>> (Dropbox and Evernote in particular), it makes little difference where
>>> I am
>>> as far as business oriented computing.
>>>
>>
> If you like LInux Bill stay away from anything NVIDIA since they won't
> provide basic driver info to the Linux world.
> But if you like Linux you probably already knew that.
I didn't know that about Nvidia. I can't say I "like" using Linux. But
I have built a Linux kernel, and I can use Linux if I have to.
Most of the fun 15 years ago seemed to be in configuring a printer and
other hardware to work. Since then, I believe,
installation has gotten alot easier. I definitely appreciate the work of
the open source community (SourceForge.org)!
Bill
>
> I stay away from NVIDIA
>
Bill wrote:
> woodchucker wrote:
>> On 4/20/2013 1:03 PM, Bill wrote:
>>> Swingman wrote:
>>>> Mike M <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm with you, I have a laptop from when I worked because it was
>>>>> easier
>>>>> then trying to move files around all the time. I had desktops at
>>>>> each
>>>>> location though. Since I'm not working anymore I updated the home
>>>>> computer to Win 7pro and more memory then I know what to do with and
>>>>> two 1.5 TB drives. Now I just use the laptop in the shop, or when I
>>>>> want to work in front of the TV. The 15" screen just doesn't compare
>>>>> to the 23" on the desktop. As you said everyone needs to figure out
>>>>> their needs. Oh Bill the old Dell Lattitude 820 with an Nvidia video
>>>>> card running XP has no problem with sketchup 8.
>>>> Just the opposite of you and Leon.
>>>>
>>>> After years of having as many as 20 boxes to deal with, and all the
>>>> attendant wiring and routing, I consider a desktop a compromise for
>>>> the way
>>>> I now work, to the point that I haven't had one in the office for
>>>> almost
>>>> six years.
>>>>
>>>> Both my older Dell XPS1210 (Win8), and the newer XPS15 (Win7) are
>>>> easily
>>>> attached to the 24" monitor on my office desk, giving me two
>>>> simultaneous
>>>> displays, or go where I go; and both run SketchUp handily.
>>>
>>> I looked up the XPS1210, and it has a discrete graphics card
>>> (nVidia GeForce 7400). Not a slouch. Thank you for providing
>>> another data point. Due to astigmatism in my eyes, I'd prefer a
>>> larger screen or I won't enjoy using it very much.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I generally leave the XPS15 in the office these days hooked to the 24"
>>>> monitor, and take the 1210 on the road when the IPad won't do the
>>>> trick.
>>>> With a 1T USB drive going with me, and all devices synced to the cloud
>>>> (Dropbox and Evernote in particular), it makes little difference where
>>>> I am
>>>> as far as business oriented computing.
>>>>
>>>
>> If you like LInux Bill stay away from anything NVIDIA since they
>> won't provide basic driver info to the Linux world.
>> But if you like Linux you probably already knew that.
> I didn't know that about Nvidia. I can't say I "like" using Linux.
> But I have built a Linux kernel, and I can use Linux if I have to.
> Most of the fun 15 years ago seemed to be in configuring a printer and
> other hardware to work. Since then, I believe,
> installation has gotten alot easier. I definitely appreciate the work
> of the open source community (SourceForge.org)!
>
> Bill
Jeff,
As time goes on (especially after seeing Windows 8), Linux is looking
better and better.
It's hard for me to like a trend in operating systems that gives me less
and less power! Your thoughts too, I'm sure.
Bill
>
>>
>> I stay away from NVIDIA
>>
>
>
>
Swingman wrote:
>> Tell him exactly
>>> what you want the computer to do, not the components to use except for the
>>> type components, ie Intel brand, SSD. Let him build the computer to your
>>> needs and wants instead of settling for a "one of four choices" available
>>> in the store situation.
> Something not mentioned, but the most important requirement of all, your
> video card:
>
> http://support.google.com/sketchup/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=36208
>
> Do not disregard the requirement for an openGL graphics card and you won't
> have a problem on most any computer, desktop of laptop, running Sketchup.
>
So here's the end, I hope, of my PC shopping story. Having spent plenty
of time getting a feel for the laptop market, I just ordered this one,
"Like new" for $527.
http://www.amazon.com/N56VM-AB71-Full-HD-1080P-15-6-Inch-Laptop/dp/B008HDOEG8/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1367033715&sr=1-1&keywords=v56vm-ab71
If it doesn't live up to its promise ("like new"--as in, it better
work!), I have 30 days to send it back. They distributer had at least 10
more to sell-otherwise it would bother me more that I am buying used
from an "unknown entity". I suspect it's probably refurbished. It's
the best value I found in a 1920x1080 resolution laptop. And, it has
Windows 7! : )
This model has a reputation for running a little warm since it has a
7200 RPM HDD, rather than 5400 RPM which seem to be more popular. I
should probably let it run for a few days, to "stress test it" assuming
this is not imprudent, is it (I never had a laptop)?
It's real easy to fall into "feature creep" looking at computers. I
tried not to spend "stupid" money on this--hopefully it will work out.
For heaven's sake, you can spend more on a laptop than a decent cabinet saw!
Bill
On 4/18/2013 7:26 PM, Bill wrote:
> Leon wrote:
> > If any of you are still looking for instruction, American Woodworker
> had just jumped on board and will be posting about 4 times a week. The
> link below takes you to the first post.
> >
> >
> http://americanwoodworker.com/blogs/sketchup-with-joe-zeh/archive/2013/04/02/sketchup-comes-to-american-woodworker.aspx?utm_source=AWNL&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=AWNL_20130418
>
>
> Just curious. Is anyone running this well on HD4000 built-in graphics.
> I'm pretty sure "discrete graphics" would do better. Nvidia GT-6XXm???
> 635? 650?
>
> I have reached the point where I am waiting for the next operating
> system after Windows8. If the industry can't do a little better, I'm not
> going to encourage them. It's like they are not even trying--laptops
> with SSD drives are relatively scarce. I mean an SSD drive would seem
> to be a natural fit for a laptop, yet you would never know it from most
> offerings.AndI assembled a desktop have one 3 years ago! I guess the
> suppliers just can't make as much money that way...
>
> Bill
If you are having graphic issues with Sketchup you probably need to
tweak your Sketchup settings. I had an old Dell and got less than
favorable results until I tweaked the settings.
What kind of problems are you having?