Bunch of us geezers (and at still <70 by a few years) meet most mornings
at local donut shop (aka "The Intellectual Center" :) ) for general bs
and coffee...winters are inactive enough on farm I can make it fairly
regularly so have been...anyway, yestiddy one of the regulars brought in
an old (he estimates >100 yr since is from old, inherited family set of
his parents and he's well the far side of 80) side chair w/ turned
spindles for back support.
These were turned one piece legs it appears w/ an offset lathe the upper
spindles of the rear legs were turned then the rest of the leg shaped.
It appears to be poplar or some other relatively soft, nondescript wood
w/ almost no grain finished w/ a near solid stain and varnish.
Anyways, the back has been broken at the small diameter of the spindles
which is barely 3/4" OD; quite small for the stress to start with and
especially w/ the apparent material. One had obviously been cracked for
quite some time and a guest in their house leaned back and that finished
that side and the other too boot.
I'm thinking I could effect a repair by drilling lengthwise down the
center of the spindles and inserting a dowel, retaining the outer jagged
pieces to fill into each other and have at least a relatively
non-obtrusive joint after refinishing touchup, etc.
OK, now finally the question -- have being trying to come up w/ a way to
make a guide to center and align to drill the necessary holes along the
spindle and even more difficult the bottom stub of the spindle from the
base that is only about an inch long...I think I could find a piece of
tubing that would fit over the spindle and fit it w/ a guide, maybe.
Any other ideas???
Thanks...
Iff'en I had a lathe of course I could saw off the two ends square at an
interface and turn the intervening piece and dowel it in, but I didn't
bring the lathe back and really don't much want to acquire one ...I
never was really into turning doing it only when it was mandatory.
--
On Feb 19, 12:33=A0am, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> Do a Google for "fiberglass rods", and get out of the way.
>
One solution, if you want to go with a "dowel", would be a carbon
fiber arrow shaft (or fiberglass). Should be available from big
sporting goods stores, or on line.
Sonny wrote:
> A dowel fix is not very strong, as you would imagine.... your dowel
> would need to be 2" down each piece.
"dpb" wrote:
> That's what I was planning on, at least. Length/depth isn't a
> problem once have alignment/angle taken care of...
------------------------------------------------
If you use the rod approach, consider a fiberglass rod in your
evaluation.
Can be bonded to the wood with epoxy providing a much stronger repair
than a metal rod/wood bond.
Lew
"dpb" wrote:
>
> Where's one going to get such and are they that rigid? Can't say as
> I can think of where I've ever seen fiberglass rods (other than
> fishing or pole-vaulting poles and the ilk--maybe I'm just drawing a
> blank at the moment, though).
---------------------------------
Do a Google for "fiberglass rods", and get out of the way.
Lots of suppliers.
Rigidity not a problem.
Specs will be on supplier's web site.
A strong bond between rod and surrounding wood will go a long way
toward addressing rigidity.
My guess you would end up with a 96" long rod that you have them
cut into 32" pieces to make UPS.
Lew
Here is one source.
http://tinyurl.com/bz36lxw
Lew
---------------------------------------------------
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "dpb" wrote:
>>
>> Where's one going to get such and are they that rigid? Can't say
>> as I can think of where I've ever seen fiberglass rods (other than
>> fishing or pole-vaulting poles and the ilk--maybe I'm just drawing
>> a blank at the moment, though).
> ---------------------------------
> Do a Google for "fiberglass rods", and get out of the way.
>
> Lots of suppliers.
>
> Rigidity not a problem.
>
> Specs will be on supplier's web site.
>
> A strong bond between rod and surrounding wood will go a long way
> toward addressing rigidity.
>
> My guess you would end up with a 96" long rod that you have them
> cut into 32" pieces to make UPS.
>
>
> Lew
>
>
>
"Larry W" wrote:
> Word to the wise, wear gloves when you handle that fiberglass rod.
> It
> can leave tiny splinters in the skin, too small to see but quite
> irritating
> or even painful.
----------------------------------------------------------
Just another good reason to keep a box of non sterile surgical gloves
in the shop.
Also necessary when working with epoxy.
Best $5/box you will spend at HF when they are on sale.
Lew
A dowel fix is not very strong, as you would imagine.... your dowel would n=
eed to be 2" down each piece. =20
I have repaired many broken chair spindles and stretchers. I have found ha=
rdwood splines work much better, than dowels.
Mate the broken parts in their proper place, firmly. Mark a line down the =
center of the spindle/mates, lengthwise, and on both sides of the spindle. =
Make a jig to cut a generous kerf along the marked lines, similarly as you=
would make tenon cuts on a tables saw, with the stock in an upright/vertic=
al position. Cut the kerf so that the width of the spline will be against/=
aligned with the force being placed on the spindle (aligned with the force =
of the person sitting in the chair). Make an appropriate hardwood spline.
Another option, that I have used to repair arms of chairs and some spindles=
, is to drill a perfect hole lengthwise and insert a metal rod. Any broken=
part that will need to support some force needs something like a metal rod=
. Shear breaks, if that is what it is, don't repair well, at all, with a d=
owel only. You say the wood is soft, poplar? I highly suspect a dowel wil=
l only be a temporary fix.
Could you possibly get us some pics of the breaks?
Sonny
On 2/18/2013 1:36 PM, woodchucker wrote:
> On 2/18/2013 2:20 PM, dpb wrote:
...
>> OK, now finally the question -- have being trying to come up w/ a way to
>> make a guide to center and align to drill the necessary holes along the
>> spindle and even more difficult the bottom stub of the spindle from the
>> base that is only about an inch long...I think I could find a piece of
>> tubing that would fit over the spindle and fit it w/ a guide, maybe. Any
>> other ideas???
>>
>> Thanks...
>>
...
> Well, I have an idea if you have a drill press.
> Drill a hole for the spindles bottom to fit into.
>
...[plan elided for brevity]...
Yeah, that's a variation of what was envisioning could do....I do have a
press. Thanks...
--
On 2/18/2013 7:42 PM, Sonny wrote:
> A dowel fix is not very strong, as you would imagine.... your dowel
> would need to be 2" down each piece.
>
That's what I was planning on, at least. Length/depth isn't a problem
once have alignment/angle taken care of...
> I have repaired many broken chair spindles and stretchers. I have
found hardwood splines work much better, than dowels.
>
> Mate the broken parts in their proper place, firmly. Mark a line
> down the center of the spindle/mates, lengthwise, and on both sides
> of the spindle. Make a jig to cut a generous kerf along the marked
> lines, similarly as you would make tenon cuts on a tables saw, with
> the stock in an upright/vertical position. Cut the kerf so that the
> width of the spline will be against/aligned with the force being
> placed on the spindle (aligned with the force of the person sitting
> in the chair). Make an appropriate hardwood spline.
That's not a bad idea that I hadn't actually thought of, thanks...
> Another option, that I have used to repair arms of chairs and some
> spindles, is to drill a perfect hole lengthwise and insert a metal rod.
> Any broken part that will need to support some force needs something
> like a metal rod. Shear breaks, if that is what it is, don't repair
> well, at all, with a dowel only. You say the wood is soft, poplar? I
> highly suspect a dowel will only be a temporary fix.
I had considered metal, yes, as well for the strength--it would allow
for a smaller diameter hole leaving more material around the break for
better hiding of the break.
It's a pretty nondescript whitish hardwood; definitely not a pine. I've
not investigated thoroughly enough to be able to have a better guess as
yet...
> Could you possibly get us some pics of the breaks?
Perhaps, we'll see--I don't have a direct way to upload, though so it's
somewhat of a pita to deal with...pretty typical brittle fracture across
grain--no long lengthwise splits.
--
On 2/18/2013 11:46 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Sonny wrote:
>> A dowel fix is not very strong, as you would imagine.... your dowel
>> would need to be 2" down each piece.
>
>
> "dpb" wrote:
>
>> That's what I was planning on, at least. Length/depth isn't a
>> problem once have alignment/angle taken care of...
> ------------------------------------------------
> If you use the rod approach, consider a fiberglass rod in your
> evaluation.
>
> Can be bonded to the wood with epoxy providing a much stronger repair
> than a metal rod/wood bond.
Where's one going to get such and are they that rigid? Can't say as I
can think of where I've ever seen fiberglass rods (other than fishing or
pole-vaulting poles and the ilk--maybe I'm just drawing a blank at the
moment, though).
My thinking on that score (metal rod, that is) is that the rod doesn't
need to do anything except supply the lateral support and if it's sized
properly it will be pretty tough to pull apart anyway as I figure it
should take mallet or clamping force to drive the two together.
There should be plenty of remaining glue surface area to provide axial
strength on the broken pieces remaining around the rod--a 3/8" steel rod
will be far stronger than the original wood was...and while I've not
calculated it out, I expect a 5/16" would be as well.
--
In article <[email protected]>,
Lew Hodgett <[email protected]> wrote:
>Here is one source.
>
>http://tinyurl.com/bz36lxw
>
>Lew
>
>---------------------------------------------------
>
>"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "dpb" wrote:
>>>
>>> Where's one going to get such and are they that rigid? Can't say
>>> as I can think of where I've ever seen fiberglass rods (other than
>>> fishing or pole-vaulting poles and the ilk--maybe I'm just drawing
>>> a blank at the moment, though).
<<...snipped...>>
Word to the wise, wear gloves when you handle that fiberglass rod. It
can leave tiny splinters in the skin, too small to see but quite irritating
or even painful.
--
There is always an easy solution to every human problem -- neat,
plausible, and wrong." (H L Mencken)
Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org
On 2/18/2013 10:54 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 2/18/2013 11:46 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> Sonny wrote:
>>> A dowel fix is not very strong, as you would imagine.... your dowel
>>> would need to be 2" down each piece.
>>
>>
>> "dpb" wrote:
>>
>>> That's what I was planning on, at least. Length/depth isn't a
>>> problem once have alignment/angle taken care of...
>> ------------------------------------------------
>> If you use the rod approach, consider a fiberglass rod in your
>> evaluation.
>>
>> Can be bonded to the wood with epoxy providing a much stronger repair
>> than a metal rod/wood bond.
>
> Where's one going to get such and are they that rigid? Can't say as I
> can think of where I've ever seen fiberglass rods (other than fishing or
> pole-vaulting poles and the ilk--maybe I'm just drawing a blank at the
> moment, though).
>
> My thinking on that score (metal rod, that is) is that the rod doesn't
> need to do anything except supply the lateral support and if it's sized
> properly it will be pretty tough to pull apart anyway as I figure it
> should take mallet or clamping force to drive the two together.
>
> There should be plenty of remaining glue surface area to provide axial
> strength on the broken pieces remaining around the rod--a 3/8" steel rod
> will be far stronger than the original wood was...and while I've not
> calculated it out, I expect a 5/16" would be as well.
>
> --
orange bicycle safety flags are usually on a fiberglass rod, and are
pretty cheap.
On 2/18/2013 11:12 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 2/18/2013 7:42 PM, Sonny wrote:
...
>> I have repaired many broken chair spindles and stretchers. I have
> found hardwood splines work much better, than dowels.
>>
>> Mate the broken parts in their proper place, firmly. Mark a line
>> down the center of the spindle/mates, lengthwise, and on both sides
>> of the spindle. Make a jig to cut a generous kerf along the marked
>> lines, similarly as you would make tenon cuts on a tables saw, with
>> the stock in an upright/vertical position. Cut the kerf so that the
>> width of the spline will be against/aligned with the force being
>> placed on the spindle (aligned with the force of the person sitting
>> in the chair). Make an appropriate hardwood spline.
>
> That's not a bad idea that I hadn't actually thought of, thanks...
>
...
I cut 1/4" kerfs w/ the dado head as suggested using a simple support to
align the two pieces of the chair horizontally parallel to the saw
table. Fortunately, this is a small mostly straight-line dining side
chair so was pretty easy to handle...used some maple on hand for the
splines and it went together quite nicely.
Finished shaping the splines to shape and touched up coloring over the
weekend while it mini-blizzard-ed (nothing like Amarillo area here;
"only" 35-40 mph sustained/roughly 50 mph gusts instead of 50/75) and
while it drifted some, not enough snow (maybe 5" but hard to tell since
there's bare ground next to drifting) to be anything but a relatively
short-term nuisance. Snow ended here about 2 yesterday afternoon. I
got tractor started and drug what blew around the areas needed access to
today and shoveled the walks...
Anyway, am quite pleased w/ the result--thanks for the idea; I _might_
have ended up doing it anyway don't know--I did get frustrated working
up the jigging to get the drilling accurate for the dowel idea pretty
quickly...
I'll have to take it out to the shed and run the heater a while this
afternoon and spray a little finish and it'll be done...
--
On 2/18/2013 2:36 PM, woodchucker wrote:
> On 2/18/2013 2:20 PM, dpb wrote:
>> Bunch of us geezers (and at still <70 by a few years) meet most mornings
>> at local donut shop (aka "The Intellectual Center" :) ) for general bs
>> and coffee...winters are inactive enough on farm I can make it fairly
>> regularly so have been...anyway, yestiddy one of the regulars brought in
>> an old (he estimates >100 yr since is from old, inherited family set of
>> his parents and he's well the far side of 80) side chair w/ turned
>> spindles for back support.
>>
>> These were turned one piece legs it appears w/ an offset lathe the upper
>> spindles of the rear legs were turned then the rest of the leg shaped.
>> It appears to be poplar or some other relatively soft, nondescript wood
>> w/ almost no grain finished w/ a near solid stain and varnish.
>>
>> Anyways, the back has been broken at the small diameter of the spindles
>> which is barely 3/4" OD; quite small for the stress to start with and
>> especially w/ the apparent material. One had obviously been cracked for
>> quite some time and a guest in their house leaned back and that finished
>> that side and the other too boot.
>>
>> I'm thinking I could effect a repair by drilling lengthwise down the
>> center of the spindles and inserting a dowel, retaining the outer jagged
>> pieces to fill into each other and have at least a relatively
>> non-obtrusive joint after refinishing touchup, etc.
>>
>> OK, now finally the question -- have being trying to come up w/ a way to
>> make a guide to center and align to drill the necessary holes along the
>> spindle and even more difficult the bottom stub of the spindle from the
>> base that is only about an inch long...I think I could find a piece of
>> tubing that would fit over the spindle and fit it w/ a guide, maybe. Any
>> other ideas???
>>
>> Thanks...
>>
>> Iff'en I had a lathe of course I could saw off the two ends square at an
>> interface and turn the intervening piece and dowel it in, but I didn't
>> bring the lathe back and really don't much want to acquire one ...I
>> never was really into turning doing it only when it was mandatory.
>>
>> --
> Well, I have an idea if you have a drill press.
> Drill a hole for the spindles bottom to fit into.
>
> Then lower the table , use a drill rod, or some long rod. to align the
> hole.
>
> Stick a piece of pvc over the spindle, wrap with tape at the widest
> point to center the spindle
>
> Take the top portion and (do this before you start, make a plug the size
> of the pvc (inside diameter) and a whole for the spindle ,
> make another plug to center the drill bit, use a sleave of brass or
> othermetal to hold the bit centered.
> put the spindle in the bottom hole (table)
> lower the drill to the sleaved hole and drill.
>
> Repeate for the other end...
>
>
I guess I need to use the spell checker.. damn fat fingers.
--
Jeff
On 2/18/2013 2:20 PM, dpb wrote:
> Bunch of us geezers (and at still <70 by a few years) meet most mornings
> at local donut shop (aka "The Intellectual Center" :) ) for general bs
> and coffee...winters are inactive enough on farm I can make it fairly
> regularly so have been...anyway, yestiddy one of the regulars brought in
> an old (he estimates >100 yr since is from old, inherited family set of
> his parents and he's well the far side of 80) side chair w/ turned
> spindles for back support.
>
> These were turned one piece legs it appears w/ an offset lathe the upper
> spindles of the rear legs were turned then the rest of the leg shaped.
> It appears to be poplar or some other relatively soft, nondescript wood
> w/ almost no grain finished w/ a near solid stain and varnish.
>
> Anyways, the back has been broken at the small diameter of the spindles
> which is barely 3/4" OD; quite small for the stress to start with and
> especially w/ the apparent material. One had obviously been cracked for
> quite some time and a guest in their house leaned back and that finished
> that side and the other too boot.
>
> I'm thinking I could effect a repair by drilling lengthwise down the
> center of the spindles and inserting a dowel, retaining the outer jagged
> pieces to fill into each other and have at least a relatively
> non-obtrusive joint after refinishing touchup, etc.
>
> OK, now finally the question -- have being trying to come up w/ a way to
> make a guide to center and align to drill the necessary holes along the
> spindle and even more difficult the bottom stub of the spindle from the
> base that is only about an inch long...I think I could find a piece of
> tubing that would fit over the spindle and fit it w/ a guide, maybe. Any
> other ideas???
>
> Thanks...
>
> Iff'en I had a lathe of course I could saw off the two ends square at an
> interface and turn the intervening piece and dowel it in, but I didn't
> bring the lathe back and really don't much want to acquire one ...I
> never was really into turning doing it only when it was mandatory.
>
> --
Well, I have an idea if you have a drill press.
Drill a hole for the spindles bottom to fit into.
Then lower the table , use a drill rod, or some long rod. to align the hole.
Stick a piece of pvc over the spindle, wrap with tape at the widest
point to center the spindle
Take the top portion and (do this before you start, make a plug the size
of the pvc (inside diameter) and a whole for the spindle ,
make another plug to center the drill bit, use a sleave of brass or
othermetal to hold the bit centered.
put the spindle in the bottom hole (table)
lower the drill to the sleaved hole and drill.
Repeate for the other end...
--
Jeff