mason jars... shellac...

Silvan wrote:

>
> Should I start with a big cut and subdivide it? The only shellac
I've used
> so far was the Bullseye stuff, which was a 3# or 4# cut out of the
can. I
> mixed it about 50/50 for my working batch, and then used the brush
cleaner
> jar as a thin wash coat later on, once it got some shellac dissolved
in it.
>

Shellac begins to deteriorate as soon as it is disolved in alcohol
and continues to degrade until it is used and all the alcohol has
evaporated.

As the degredation process is slow but continuous and varies
with temperature and possibly impurities in the mix it is
impossible to say how long the shellac will stay 'good'
after it is mixed.

So the general reccomendation for best results is to ony mix as
much as you will use on your current project, assuming that you
will do all the finishing over a reasonably short time frame
like a couple of weeks.

As to safety issues I agree that there is no reason to suppose
you could not clean the jars adequately for later use for food,
but why reuse them?

A more important safety consideration is that glass jars break
easily, and the mixed shellac is inflammible (also flammible
;-0 ) which is one reason why most solvents are sold in metal
containers, not glass. That's another reason to not mix large
batches.

--

FF

The problem with using multiple jars is that they're a bitch to clean
when you're done. If you're only ever going to use them for shellac, I
guess that's not a big deal but I do a lot of canning and hate to toss
them out.

And yeah, I know shellac is "food safe".

"Larry Jaques" <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 22:11:03 -0600, "Todd Fatheree" <[email protected]>
> calmly ranted:
>
> >"Larry Jaques" <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
>
> >> How do the seals react to soaking in shellac?
> >
> >Since I usually keep my jars right-side up, I wouldn't know. Why don't
you
> >do a test and report back?
>
> You don't shake your shellac to stir it, Toddy?

Perhaps your definition of "soak" is different from mine, Jacques-ass.
Webster's seems to define it as "to immerse in liquid for a period of time"
or "to be immersed until thoroughly saturated". To answer your question
anyway, even though it doesn't apply, one source I found says the gasket
material is latex rubber. So, if you really want to know the answer to your
question, look up the solubility of latex in ethanol.

todd

"Larry Jaques" <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 22:31:38 -0600, "Todd Fatheree" <[email protected]>
> calmly ranted:
>
> >"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> How big is a standard mason jar? A quart? Are these things available
> >year
> >> round from places like Wally World, or only during canning season?
>
> I got a case of 12 quart-sized widemouths w/ lids at Wally World for
> $8, but I don't remember what month. Probably late spring or summer.
>
>
> >They do get hard to find outside of canning season. I seem to have good
> >luck most of the time at Farm-n-Fleet around here. I'd say the most
common
> >size is a quart, but you can get 1/2 pint, pint, and somewhere you can
get 2
> >quart jars, though I've never actually seen them for sale. As Doug
> >suggested, some of the pasta sauce jars can be used. The ones that say
> >"Mason" on them can be actually be used for canning, so regular canning
lids
> >fit. Personally, I'd stick with 2-piece lids because I think they seal
> >better.
>
> How do the seals react to soaking in shellac?

Since I usually keep my jars right-side up, I wouldn't know. Why don't you
do a test and report back?

todd

Dave Balderstone wrote:

> The problem with using multiple jars is that they're a bitch to clean
> when you're done. If you're only ever going to use them for shellac, I
> guess that's not a big deal but I do a lot of canning and hate to toss
> them out.

I'd be using them just for shellac, yeah. We don't can anymore.

> And yeah, I know shellac is "food safe".

Yeahbut denatured alcohol sure ain't. I would never think of reusing these
for food.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

George E. Cawthon wrote:

>> Yeahbut denatured alcohol sure ain't. I would never think of reusing
>> these for food.
>>
>
> Huh? When you did can, did you not pour out old liquid before putting
> in the new stuff to can? Maybe even wash the jars? No? Gross!

No, actually, we haven't canned since I was a kid. There used to be a
vacant lot across the street. Somebody plowed a bulldozer through it and
stopped. That was a perfect spot for shooting used mason jars with my BB
gun. :)

> Seriously, do you think shellac can withstand boiling water for any
> length of time? Or withstand 95 percent alcohol? Or are all the
> statements on the negatives of a shellac finish wrong? such as water
> is absorbed and turns it white spots, it is dissolved by alcohol, it
> is not heat resistant, etc.

Seriously, denatured alcohol has a big skull and crossbones on the can, and
it says it can't be made nonpoisonous. Sure, it probably all evaporated.
Sure, boiling and washing probably got rid of every trace of it. But for
the price of a box of mason jars, who wants to take a chance like that?! I
don't eat out of something that has contained some poisonous chemical.
Shellac may be edible, but I would not eat it unless it was prepared with
pure boozing alcohol. I know all the solvent is supposed to evaporate, but
what if some of it doesn't? It's just a stupid risk to take. (Not that I
actually have any occasion to eat shellac, denatured alcohol or not. Not
shellac I have applied myself anyway. If they use methyl alcohol to
prepare food grade shellac coatings, I'll be really surprised though.)

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

George wrote:

> Then there are the jelly jars. Though Silvan filters me, anyone else

I do? I guess whatever it was, I'm over it now. :)

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

J. Clarke wrote:

> No, you don't want to drink the stuff, but it's not like it's a neurotoxin
> effective in microgram quantities or anything.
>
> One must maintain a sense of proportion about this sort of thing.

Not for what jars cost. I wouldn't drink out of a sterilized toilet bowl
either, no matter how sterilized it was. :)

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

Todd Fatheree wrote:

> Perhaps your definition of "soak" is different from mine, Jacques-ass.

Jacques-ass. That's priceless.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

Larry Jaques wrote:

>>Jacques-ass. That's priceless.
>
> Yeah, I liked it so much I finally plonked his ass.
> NO loss.

Well, I didn't mean to step in shit or anything Monsieur Jacques. I just
thought that was funny. You can be a real Jacques-ass sometimes.
Especially when somebody talks about using poly and Minwhacks on
walnut. :)

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

Larry Jaques wrote:

>>thought that was funny. You can be a real Jacques-ass sometimes.
>>Especially when somebody talks about using poly and Minwhacks on
>>walnut. :)
>
> True, or even on jummywood. ;)

Putting walnut on jummywood? Are you nuts?

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

>
> "Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> Putting walnut on jummywood? Are you nuts?
>>
>
> Would make more sense to put a jummywod veneer over walnut to lighten it
> up.

Right. Then stain it walnut color so it looks right.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

Then there are the jelly jars. Though Silvan filters me, anyone else
contemplating use of jars should remember that alcohol sucks water, so the
less air the better in the container. Mixing shellac in the smallest
possible container makes sense. As I apply with cloth, I find squeeze
bottles best.

1 ounce (Av) = 1/16 of a pound
1 cup (8 Fl Oz) = 1/16 of a gallon.

What could be simpler?

Oh yes, if you look at food container cans and jars you see the same chisel
in progress that you see with coffee. The jar is probably 15 Fl Oz by now,
some less. The pound of coffee is 12 oz, but the old "three pound" size
even chisels on that, being 34.5!!!!

"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Silvan
<[email protected]> wrote:
> >How big is a standard mason jar? A quart?
>
> Standard sizes are pint, quart, and half-gallon.
>
> > Are these things available year
> >round from places like Wally World, or only during canning season?
>
> Should be available year-round.
> [snip]
> >Approximately how much shellac flake/powder do I have to add to a jar to
get
> >what cut? I guess a quart is 1/4 gallon, so a 1-pound cut would be 4 oz.
> >of flakes? Am I missing something?
>
> Perzactly right. Not missing a thing.
> >
> >Should I start with a big cut and subdivide it? The only shellac I've
used
> >so far was the Bullseye stuff, which was a 3# or 4# cut out of the can.
I
> >mixed it about 50/50 for my working batch, and then used the brush
cleaner
> >jar as a thin wash coat later on, once it got some shellac dissolved in
it.
>
> I find a 2-lb cut is easier to apply than 3- or 4-lb. YMMV.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
>
> Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
> by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
> You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
>
>

Might want to check the melting point of shellac before you do that.

HINT : it's < 140F http://www.shellacepc.com/properties.html

"George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> And how is a dishwasher related to boiling water? Do you know of any
> dishwashers that use boiling water? The dishwasher with heat
> augmentation get to a water temp of about 140 degrees; but many just
> use the water as it comes through the pipe. I mentioned boiling
> because boiling water is typically used in hot water canning, and then
> of course there is even hotter than 212 with pressure canning. World
> of difference between a bit of 140 degree water sluicing over the
> dishes and fully standing fully in boiling water.
>
> Guess its time to go coat some glasses since I have a little 2 pound
> cut left over after a project I finished yesterday and see if it stays
> on the glass in my dishwasher. If it does, no problem, I'll just put
> the glasses in a pan of BOILING water.

Yep, I was thinking of softening, which I've seen in direct sunlight at
craft shows. It'll slide away. Also, given the basic properties of dish
detergent, it will be chemically destroyed.

"George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:5%[email protected]...
> George wrote:
> > Might want to check the melting point of shellac before you do that.
>
> Damn, that's a lot of information. But what is your point?
> My point was that soaking in boiling water would get rid of
> the shellac and that a dishwasher wouldn't.
>
> Table III of your excellent reference gives the softening
> and melting point. The table shows that the melting point
> is 77-90 C, that's 170 to 190 F. Don't know where you got
> the 140 but the melting point is NOT less that 140 F. The
> low end of the softening point is 104-122 F.

George wrote:
> Might want to check the melting point of shellac before you do that.
>
> HINT : it's < 140F http://www.shellacepc.com/properties.html
>
> "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>And how is a dishwasher related to boiling water? Do you know of any
>>dishwashers that use boiling water? The dishwasher with heat
>>augmentation get to a water temp of about 140 degrees; but many just
>>use the water as it comes through the pipe. I mentioned boiling
>>because boiling water is typically used in hot water canning, and then
>>of course there is even hotter than 212 with pressure canning. World
>>of difference between a bit of 140 degree water sluicing over the
>>dishes and fully standing fully in boiling water.
>>
>>Guess its time to go coat some glasses since I have a little 2 pound
>>cut left over after a project I finished yesterday and see if it stays
>>on the glass in my dishwasher. If it does, no problem, I'll just put
>>the glasses in a pan of BOILING water.
>
>
>

Damn, that's a lot of information. But what is your point?
My point was that soaking in boiling water would get rid of
the shellac and that a dishwasher wouldn't.

Table III of your excellent reference gives the softening
and melting point. The table shows that the melting point
is 77-90 C, that's 170 to 190 F. Don't know where you got
the 140 but the melting point is NOT less that 140 F. The
low end of the softening point is 104-122 F.

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 20:22:39 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> wrote:

>How big is a standard mason jar? A quart? Are these things available year
>round from places like Wally World, or only during canning season?


develop a peanut butter habit. great jars....



>
>I've got a bag of weird orange fluffy stuff that I want to turn into wood
>finish one of these days. I already asked what to do with the unused
>portion, and it was suggested that I divvy it up into baggies. What I was
>thinking instead, though, was why not divvy it up into jars? Just buy a
>box of jars, then add alcohol as the occasion arises.
>
>I have a bunch of jars already, but they're odd sizes from this and that
>that the previous homeowner washed out and stored. I can use those if
>needs be, but I was thinking just buying a new box might be easier and more
>certain. Plus I get a handy dandy box to store them in.
>
>Approximately how much shellac flake/powder do I have to add to a jar to get
>what cut? I guess a quart is 1/4 gallon, so a 1-pound cut would be 4 oz.
>of flakes? Am I missing something?
>
>Should I start with a big cut and subdivide it? The only shellac I've used
>so far was the Bullseye stuff, which was a 3# or 4# cut out of the can. I
>mixed it about 50/50 for my working batch, and then used the brush cleaner
>jar as a thin wash coat later on, once it got some shellac dissolved in it.
>
>I haven't even built a project yet, and I'm way off from finishing, but I'm
>kind of eager to play with this. I might mix up a little bitty batch just
>to waste some. I want to see how the real stuff compares to the canned. I
>hope I'll be pleased.

"Larry Jaques" <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 20:21:55 -0500, Silvan
> <[email protected]> calmly ranted:
>
> >Todd Fatheree wrote:
> >
> >> Perhaps your definition of "soak" is different from mine, Jacques-ass.
> >
> >Jacques-ass. That's priceless.
>
> Yeah, I liked it so much I finally plonked his ass.
> NO loss.

Whatever, jerk. I guess you only like your rudeness in one direction. As
my mother would say, you can dish it out, but you can't take it. I didn't
notice any pearls of wisdom from you in this thread, by the way.

todd

Silvan wrote:
> Dave Balderstone wrote:
>
>
>>The problem with using multiple jars is that they're a bitch to clean
>>when you're done. If you're only ever going to use them for shellac, I
>>guess that's not a big deal but I do a lot of canning and hate to toss
>>them out.
>
>
> I'd be using them just for shellac, yeah. We don't can anymore.
>
>
>>And yeah, I know shellac is "food safe".
>
>
> Yeahbut denatured alcohol sure ain't. I would never think of reusing these
> for food.
>

Huh? When you did can, did you not pour out old liquid before putting
in the new stuff to can? Maybe even wash the jars? No? Gross!

Seriously, do you think shellac can withstand boiling water for any
length of time? Or withstand 95 percent alcohol? Or are all the
statements on the negatives of a shellac finish wrong? such as water
is absorbed and turns it white spots, it is dissolved by alcohol, it
is not heat resistant, etc.

In article <[email protected]>, Silvan <[email protected]> wrote:
>How big is a standard mason jar? A quart?

Standard sizes are pint, quart, and half-gallon.

> Are these things available year
>round from places like Wally World, or only during canning season?

Should be available year-round.
[snip]
>Approximately how much shellac flake/powder do I have to add to a jar to get
>what cut? I guess a quart is 1/4 gallon, so a 1-pound cut would be 4 oz.
>of flakes? Am I missing something?

Perzactly right. Not missing a thing.
>
>Should I start with a big cut and subdivide it? The only shellac I've used
>so far was the Bullseye stuff, which was a 3# or 4# cut out of the can. I
>mixed it about 50/50 for my working batch, and then used the brush cleaner
>jar as a thin wash coat later on, once it got some shellac dissolved in it.

I find a 2-lb cut is easier to apply than 3- or 4-lb. YMMV.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
You must use your REAL email address to get a response.

"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Putting walnut on jummywood? Are you nuts?
>

Would make more sense to put a jummywod veneer over walnut to lighten it up.

In article <[email protected]>, "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Seriously, first, why would you need a Mason jar? All sorts of stuff
>comes in jars that are thrown away so why not use that type of jar?

Mason jars come in standard sizes (pint, quart, & half-gallon), and usually
have volume markings up one side as well, which makes it a *lot* easier to
consistently mix a particular cut of shellac. "All sorts of stuff" comes in
jars that are odd sizes (e.g. 14 oz instead of a full pint) and have no volume
markings.
>
>Second, the stuff goes bad rather quickly and dissolving it, so why
>not mix the amount you need instead of a pint, a quart, a half gallon,
>etc.

If you want a particular cut of shellac, it's easier to calculate how much
shellac and alcohol you need if you're using standard sizes. A pound is
sixteen ounces. A gallon is sixteen cups. 1-lb cut = 1 lb per gallon or 1 oz
per cup. Easy.

>A variety of jar sizes allows you to select a size close to
>your estimate of the amount you need for a project.

So does a pint (or quart) mason jar with volume marks up the side.

>Before you use
>the jars, measure how much liquid they hold and mark it on them.

If you use mason jars, they're already marked. It's molded into the glass, and
you don't have to worry about the alcohol erasing your markings.


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
You must use your REAL email address to get a response.

"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> How big is a standard mason jar? A quart? Are these things available
year
> round from places like Wally World, or only during canning season?

They do get hard to find outside of canning season. I seem to have good
luck most of the time at Farm-n-Fleet around here. I'd say the most common
size is a quart, but you can get 1/2 pint, pint, and somewhere you can get 2
quart jars, though I've never actually seen them for sale. As Doug
suggested, some of the pasta sauce jars can be used. The ones that say
"Mason" on them can be actually be used for canning, so regular canning lids
fit. Personally, I'd stick with 2-piece lids because I think they seal
better.

todd

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 20:21:55 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> calmly ranted:

>Todd Fatheree wrote:
>
>> Perhaps your definition of "soak" is different from mine, Jacques-ass.
>
>Jacques-ass. That's priceless.

Yeah, I liked it so much I finally plonked his ass.
NO loss.


--
Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life.
---- --Unknown

Todd Fatheree wrote:
>> "Larry Jaques" <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 22:31:38 -0600, "Todd Fatheree"
>>> <[email protected]> calmly ranted:
>>>
>>>> "Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> How big is a standard mason jar? A quart? Are these things
>>>>> available year round from places like Wally World, or only during
>>>>> canning season?
>>>
>>> I got a case of 12 quart-sized widemouths w/ lids at Wally World for
>>> $8, but I don't remember what month. Probably late spring or summer.
>>>
>>>
>>>> They do get hard to find outside of canning season. I seem to
>>>> have good luck most of the time at Farm-n-Fleet around here. I'd
>>>> say the most common size is a quart, but you can get 1/2 pint,
>>>> pint, and somewhere you can get 2 quart jars, though I've never
>>>> actually seen them for sale. As Doug suggested, some of the pasta
>>>> sauce jars can be used. The ones that say "Mason" on them can be
>>>> actually be used for canning, so regular canning lids fit.
>>>> Personally, I'd stick with 2-piece lids because I think they seal
>>>> better.
>>>
>>> How do the seals react to soaking in shellac?
>>
>> Since I usually keep my jars right-side up, I wouldn't know. Why
>> don't you do a test and report back?
>>
>> todd

Just as an aside - I had poured some Minwax stain into a mason jar and
applied a plastic cover (white screw-on) and about 6 mos later the plastic
cover had a rather nice lump in it, not unlike a dome. Didn't open it but
brought it to the dump's hazardous material section. The stain didn't
reach the cover, either.

Josie

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 20:36:06 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> calmly ranted:

>Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>>>Jacques-ass. That's priceless.
>>
>> Yeah, I liked it so much I finally plonked his ass.
>> NO loss.
>
>Well, I didn't mean to step in shit or anything Monsieur Jacques. I just
>thought that was funny. You can be a real Jacques-ass sometimes.
>Especially when somebody talks about using poly and Minwhacks on
>walnut. :)

True, or even on jummywood. ;)

--
***********************************************************
"Boy, I feel safer now that Martha Stewart is behind bars!
O.J. is walking around free, Osama Bin Laden too, but they
take the one woman in America willing to cook and clean
and work in the yard and haul her ass to jail."
--Tim Allen
***********************************************************

Silvan wrote:

> Dave Balderstone wrote:
>
>> The problem with using multiple jars is that they're a bitch to clean
>> when you're done. If you're only ever going to use them for shellac, I
>> guess that's not a big deal but I do a lot of canning and hate to toss
>> them out.
>
> I'd be using them just for shellac, yeah. We don't can anymore.
>
>> And yeah, I know shellac is "food safe".
>
> Yeahbut denatured alcohol sure ain't. I would never think of reusing
> these for food.

The toxic levels for methanol are measured in grams. Any residual amount
remaining in a mason jar after it has been sterilized (the boiling point of
methanol is 67C, sterilization typically occurs at 100C or above) is not
going to be a health hazard.

No, you don't want to drink the stuff, but it's not like it's a neurotoxin
effective in microgram quantities or anything.

One must maintain a sense of proportion about this sort of thing.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Silvan wrote:
> How big is a standard mason jar? A quart? Are these things available year
> round from places like Wally World, or only during canning season?
>
> I've got a bag of weird orange fluffy stuff that I want to turn into wood
> finish one of these days. I already asked what to do with the unused
> portion, and it was suggested that I divvy it up into baggies. What I was
> thinking instead, though, was why not divvy it up into jars? Just buy a
> box of jars, then add alcohol as the occasion arises.
>
> I have a bunch of jars already, but they're odd sizes from this and that
> that the previous homeowner washed out and stored. I can use those if
> needs be, but I was thinking just buying a new box might be easier and more
> certain. Plus I get a handy dandy box to store them in.
>
> Approximately how much shellac flake/powder do I have to add to a jar to get
> what cut? I guess a quart is 1/4 gallon, so a 1-pound cut would be 4 oz.
> of flakes? Am I missing something?
>
> Should I start with a big cut and subdivide it? The only shellac I've used
> so far was the Bullseye stuff, which was a 3# or 4# cut out of the can. I
> mixed it about 50/50 for my working batch, and then used the brush cleaner
> jar as a thin wash coat later on, once it got some shellac dissolved in it.
>
> I haven't even built a project yet, and I'm way off from finishing, but I'm
> kind of eager to play with this. I might mix up a little bitty batch just
> to waste some. I want to see how the real stuff compares to the canned. I
> hope I'll be pleased.
>

As others have said they're hard to find out of canning season. I
found one of the few REAL, old style hardware stores here can
order them for me with a three or four day delivery time at the
normal price anytime. They're a little more that the box stores,
but for any size from 8oz to half gallon whenever I need them I'll
keep buying from them. I seem to remember a mention of using
plastic wrap between the jar and lid to keep the threads clean.

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:

> >Yeahbut denatured alcohol sure ain't. I would never think of reusing these
> >for food.
>
> Clean out the shellac with denatured alcohol, then rinse thoroughly with
> vodka. :-)

A fellow around here inadvertantly took a swig from his shellac bottle.
He died....but what a finish...!

On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 22:11:03 -0600, "Todd Fatheree" <[email protected]>
calmly ranted:

>"Larry Jaques" <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message

>> How do the seals react to soaking in shellac?
>
>Since I usually keep my jars right-side up, I wouldn't know. Why don't you
>do a test and report back?

You don't shake your shellac to stir it, Toddy?


--
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Gee, ain't religion GREAT?
---------------------------------------------
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On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 22:31:38 -0600, "Todd Fatheree" <[email protected]>
calmly ranted:

>"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> How big is a standard mason jar? A quart? Are these things available
>year
>> round from places like Wally World, or only during canning season?

I got a case of 12 quart-sized widemouths w/ lids at Wally World for
$8, but I don't remember what month. Probably late spring or summer.


>They do get hard to find outside of canning season. I seem to have good
>luck most of the time at Farm-n-Fleet around here. I'd say the most common
>size is a quart, but you can get 1/2 pint, pint, and somewhere you can get 2
>quart jars, though I've never actually seen them for sale. As Doug
>suggested, some of the pasta sauce jars can be used. The ones that say
>"Mason" on them can be actually be used for canning, so regular canning lids
>fit. Personally, I'd stick with 2-piece lids because I think they seal
>better.

How do the seals react to soaking in shellac?

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Doug Miller wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>, Silvan
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> How big is a standard mason jar? A quart?
>>
>> Standard sizes are pint, quart, and half-gallon.
>>
>>> Are these things available year
>>> round from places like Wally World, or only during canning season?
>>
>> Should be available year-round.
>> [snip]

One of the big brand spaghetti sauces comes in mason jars, too. It's the
quart size and if you make a lot of requests for pasta you might be able to
get a good collection going pretty quickly. Even better, the jar covers
are screw tops with a rubber type ring on the inside. Good closure over and
over. Jar covers come tomato stained but I set them in the sunshine and
the sun bleaches the orange out in a day or so.

Occasionally someone like Ace will set out white plastic one piece
replacement covers, not suitable for canning but seems to be okay for short
term shellac and oil based paint storage. These I'd be more likely to put
a square of waxed paper between the jar and white plastic lid.

Josie

Andy Dingley wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 07:22:12 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Seriously, do you think shellac can withstand boiling water for any
>>length of time?
>
>
> It won't clean off in a dishwasher. There's a big gap between
> "doesn't stand up to it as a finish" and "Can be cleaned off
> effectively by it".


And how is a dishwasher related to boiling water? Do you know of any
dishwashers that use boiling water? The dishwasher with heat
augmentation get to a water temp of about 140 degrees; but many just
use the water as it comes through the pipe. I mentioned boiling
because boiling water is typically used in hot water canning, and then
of course there is even hotter than 212 with pressure canning. World
of difference between a bit of 140 degree water sluicing over the
dishes and fully standing fully in boiling water.

Guess its time to go coat some glasses since I have a little 2 pound
cut left over after a project I finished yesterday and see if it stays
on the glass in my dishwasher. If it does, no problem, I'll just put
the glasses in a pan of BOILING water.

Corner grocery chain store carries pint and quart jars year round.
Protect the treads at the top of the jar so shellac wont seal them.
DAMHIKT. Jeff Jewitt uses teflon tape, others use vaseline. Pour 2"
of flakes into a jar then add alcohol to a 4" level and you've got
"about" a 2# cut. Six month shelf life after mixing. Mine stores in
garage fridge. Try French Polishing with you sample mixture.

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 20:22:39 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Approximately how much shellac flake/powder do I have to add to a jar to get
>what cut? I guess a quart is 1/4 gallon, so a 1-pound cut would be 4 oz.
>of flakes? Am I missing something?

On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 07:22:12 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Seriously, do you think shellac can withstand boiling water for any
>length of time?

It won't clean off in a dishwasher. There's a big gap between
"doesn't stand up to it as a finish" and "Can be cleaned off
effectively by it".
--
Smert' spamionam

In article <[email protected]>, Silvan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Yeahbut denatured alcohol sure ain't. I would never think of reusing these
>for food.

Clean out the shellac with denatured alcohol, then rinse thoroughly with
vodka. :-)

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

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Silvan wrote:
> George E. Cawthon wrote:
>
>
>>>Yeahbut denatured alcohol sure ain't. I would never think of reusing
>>>these for food.
>>>
>>
>>Huh? When you did can, did you not pour out old liquid before putting
>>in the new stuff to can? Maybe even wash the jars? No? Gross!
>
>
> No, actually, we haven't canned since I was a kid. There used to be a
> vacant lot across the street. Somebody plowed a bulldozer through it and
> stopped. That was a perfect spot for shooting used mason jars with my BB
> gun. :)
>
>
>>Seriously, do you think shellac can withstand boiling water for any
>>length of time? Or withstand 95 percent alcohol? Or are all the
>>statements on the negatives of a shellac finish wrong? such as water
>>is absorbed and turns it white spots, it is dissolved by alcohol, it
>>is not heat resistant, etc.
>
>
> Seriously, denatured alcohol has a big skull and crossbones on the can, and
> it says it can't be made nonpoisonous. Sure, it probably all evaporated.
> Sure, boiling and washing probably got rid of every trace of it. But for
> the price of a box of mason jars, who wants to take a chance like that?! I
> don't eat out of something that has contained some poisonous chemical.
> Shellac may be edible, but I would not eat it unless it was prepared with
> pure boozing alcohol. I know all the solvent is supposed to evaporate, but
> what if some of it doesn't? It's just a stupid risk to take. (Not that I
> actually have any occasion to eat shellac, denatured alcohol or not. Not
> shellac I have applied myself anyway. If they use methyl alcohol to
> prepare food grade shellac coatings, I'll be really surprised though.)
>

Apparently you have never worked in a chem or physiology lab. Nor do
you have any idea about what is in the food you eat (hair, rat
droppings, insects, weeds, etc.. The risks from any meal during the
day is thousands of times worse than from any denatured alcohol or
methanol left in a mason jar after thoroughly washing and rinsing twice.

Silvan wrote:
> How big is a standard mason jar? A quart? Are these things available year
> round from places like Wally World, or only during canning season?
>
> I've got a bag of weird orange fluffy stuff that I want to turn into wood
> finish one of these days. I already asked what to do with the unused
> portion, and it was suggested that I divvy it up into baggies. What I was
> thinking instead, though, was why not divvy it up into jars? Just buy a
> box of jars, then add alcohol as the occasion arises.
>
> I have a bunch of jars already, but they're odd sizes from this and that
> that the previous homeowner washed out and stored. I can use those if
> needs be, but I was thinking just buying a new box might be easier and more
> certain. Plus I get a handy dandy box to store them in.
>
> Approximately how much shellac flake/powder do I have to add to a jar to get
> what cut? I guess a quart is 1/4 gallon, so a 1-pound cut would be 4 oz.
> of flakes? Am I missing something?
>
> Should I start with a big cut and subdivide it? The only shellac I've used
> so far was the Bullseye stuff, which was a 3# or 4# cut out of the can. I
> mixed it about 50/50 for my working batch, and then used the brush cleaner
> jar as a thin wash coat later on, once it got some shellac dissolved in it.
>
> I haven't even built a project yet, and I'm way off from finishing, but I'm
> kind of eager to play with this. I might mix up a little bitty batch just
> to waste some. I want to see how the real stuff compares to the canned. I
> hope I'll be pleased.
>

Seriously, first, why would you need a Mason jar? All sorts of stuff
comes in jars that are thrown away so why not use that type of jar?

Second, the stuff goes bad rather quickly and dissolving it, so why
not mix the amount you need instead of a pint, a quart, a half gallon,
etc. A variety of jar sizes allows you to select a size close to
your estimate of the amount you need for a project. Before you use
the jars, measure how much liquid they hold and mark it on them.
BTW, lots of jars can use standard canning lids.

Andy Dingley wrote:
>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 07:22:12 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Seriously, do you think shellac can withstand boiling water for any
>>> length of time?
>>
>> It won't clean off in a dishwasher. There's a big gap between
>> "doesn't stand up to it as a finish" and "Can be cleaned off
>> effectively by it".
>> --
>> Smert' spamionam

Ammonia. Pour out the remaining shellac, let dry or not, pour in ammonia
and hot water, white stuff comes off with any kitchen scrubber. Save up a
few jars and do them all at once outside.

Josie