TT

"Toller"

10/11/2006 3:01 PM

How others see our work...

I am making (still...) a set of dining room chairs. I put a biscuit slot
on the wrong face, right where it will be most visible. I had too much work
into it to start over, so I found a piece of scrap with the same color and
grain, and cut a plug. Fortunately the slot is parallel to the grain. It
looked pretty good, but the work has prominent rays and the plug just
doesn't match. I though the plug was too small to matter, but it did.

I showed it to my wife and asked her what she thought. About what? The
repaired damage. Where? There. Oh, I never would have noticed that.

Well, I stared at it for a while and decided it was hideous. Ripped it out,
found a piece of scrap with the same color, grain AND rays. Looks so much
better. There is just a tiny black line at the top and bottom of the plug;
otherwise invisible. I thought maybe I could get rid of them with some
filler, or maybe I would make it worse?

So I go back to my wife. She tells me to leave it alone because she can't
see what I am pointing at; but reminds me that she couldn't see the first
one either.

Every now and then someone posts, asking if we view our own work too
critically. Apparently.


This topic has 31 replies

TW

Tom Watson

in reply to "Toller" on 10/11/2006 3:01 PM

10/11/2006 8:37 PM

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 15:01:18 GMT, "Toller" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I am making (still...) a set of dining room chairs. I put a biscuit slot
>on the wrong face, right where it will be most visible. I had too much work
>into it to start over, so I found a piece of scrap with the same color and
>grain, and cut a plug. Fortunately the slot is parallel to the grain. It
>looked pretty good, but the work has prominent rays and the plug just
>doesn't match. I though the plug was too small to matter, but it did.
>
>I showed it to my wife and asked her what she thought. About what? The
>repaired damage. Where? There. Oh, I never would have noticed that.
>
>Well, I stared at it for a while and decided it was hideous. Ripped it out,
>found a piece of scrap with the same color, grain AND rays. Looks so much
>better. There is just a tiny black line at the top and bottom of the plug;
>otherwise invisible. I thought maybe I could get rid of them with some
>filler, or maybe I would make it worse?
>
>So I go back to my wife. She tells me to leave it alone because she can't
>see what I am pointing at; but reminds me that she couldn't see the first
>one either.
>
>Every now and then someone posts, asking if we view our own work too
>critically. Apparently.
>


It is time for you to embrace the concept of "The Persian Flaw".



Regards,

Tom Watson

tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)

http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

Rr

"RicodJour"

in reply to "Toller" on 10/11/2006 3:01 PM

10/11/2006 7:10 AM


Toller wrote:
> I am making (still...) a set of dining room chairs. I put a biscuit slot
> on the wrong face, right where it will be most visible. I had too much work
> into it to start over, so I found a piece of scrap with the same color and
> grain, and cut a plug. Fortunately the slot is parallel to the grain. It
> looked pretty good, but the work has prominent rays and the plug just
> doesn't match. I though the plug was too small to matter, but it did.
>
> I showed it to my wife and asked her what she thought. About what? The
> repaired damage. Where? There. Oh, I never would have noticed that.
>
> Well, I stared at it for a while and decided it was hideous. Ripped it out,
> found a piece of scrap with the same color, grain AND rays. Looks so much
> better. There is just a tiny black line at the top and bottom of the plug;
> otherwise invisible. I thought maybe I could get rid of them with some
> filler, or maybe I would make it worse?
>
> So I go back to my wife. She tells me to leave it alone because she can't
> see what I am pointing at; but reminds me that she couldn't see the first
> one either.
>
> Every now and then someone posts, asking if we view our own work too
> critically. Apparently.

If your wife has the good sense to ignore flaws in your work, and
presumably you, there is little benefit in pointing them out insisting
she see them.

Other than that - if you're good, you're always your worst critic.
That is as it should be.

R

b

in reply to "Toller" on 10/11/2006 3:01 PM

10/11/2006 7:32 AM

I made a dresser (first one), and wouldn't youknow, I drilled the two
screw holes for the top center drawer pull with the drawer upside down.
That meant that when properly located the pull, there were two visible
holes right above it. I found a couple of interesting glass beads and
mounted them in the holes, and my wife thinks they're a nice decorative
addition.



Whew!



RicodJour wrote:
> Toller wrote:
> > I am making (still...) a set of dining room chairs. I put a biscuit slot
> > on the wrong face, right where it will be most visible. I had too much work
> > into it to start over, so I found a piece of scrap with the same color and
> > grain, and cut a plug. Fortunately the slot is parallel to the grain. It
> > looked pretty good, but the work has prominent rays and the plug just
> > doesn't match. I though the plug was too small to matter, but it did.
> >
> > I showed it to my wife and asked her what she thought. About what? The
> > repaired damage. Where? There. Oh, I never would have noticed that.
> >
> > Well, I stared at it for a while and decided it was hideous. Ripped it out,
> > found a piece of scrap with the same color, grain AND rays. Looks so much
> > better. There is just a tiny black line at the top and bottom of the plug;
> > otherwise invisible. I thought maybe I could get rid of them with some
> > filler, or maybe I would make it worse?
> >
> > So I go back to my wife. She tells me to leave it alone because she can't
> > see what I am pointing at; but reminds me that she couldn't see the first
> > one either.
> >
> > Every now and then someone posts, asking if we view our own work too
> > critically. Apparently.
>
> If your wife has the good sense to ignore flaws in your work, and
> presumably you, there is little benefit in pointing them out insisting
> she see them.
>
> Other than that - if you're good, you're always your worst critic.
> That is as it should be.
>
> R

Ff

"FoggyTown"

in reply to "Toller" on 10/11/2006 3:01 PM

12/11/2006 3:14 AM


I think the answer is simple: those who are reasonably proficient at
something hold themselves to higher standards. The higher standards
are the way you WANT to be able to do whatever it is. Those with no
aptitude or ability have lower standards and they think that even your
"flaw-ridden" effort is better than anything they could ever do so they
don't even register what you think are imperfections.

FoggyTown

Rd

"Robatoy"

in reply to "Toller" on 10/11/2006 3:01 PM

12/11/2006 1:13 PM



On Nov 12, 6:14 am, "FoggyTown" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I think the answer is simple: those who are reasonably proficient at
> something hold themselves to higher standards. The higher standards
> are the way you WANT to be able to do whatever it is. Those with no
> aptitude or ability have lower standards and they think that even your
> "flaw-ridden" effort is better than anything they could ever do so they
> don't even register what you think are imperfections.
>

Most customers won't pay for obsessional behaviour. The trick is to
find a balance between speed and accuracy. I constantly remind myself
that I am not making a watch or a piano. I also believe that what goes
out there with my name on it, should be able to be put on display
anywhere. If that piece includes an expert repair, so be it. Chances
are nobody, but the most anal, will see that repair. And the anal are
never satisfied. Do not waste your time trying to please those
tofu-sucking granola crunching asshats with the magnifying glasses. I'm
not for them. I could be, but those types won't pay.

The equalizer for me, is that I always ask myself: "would I pay $
xxxx.xx for 'this piece?" If it doesn't pass that bar, it ain't leaving
the shop.

You can tell a craftsman by the way he covers his mistakes...just ask
Eric Clapton. (*and 100 guys like him*)

r

Cc

"CW"

in reply to "Toller" on 10/11/2006 3:01 PM

13/11/2006 1:10 AM

Look around. It's not only chairs. Crap sells. There is lots of stuff on the
market now, that sells just fine, that would have never made it fifty years
ago. Introduce crappier and crappier products slowly over a long period of
time and Joe average consumer never notices. It's called social
conditioning.

"Toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Last night we were shopping for a couch. I stopped by the chairs to see
how
> they were made. They all had the arms attached to the backs with screws,
> with a big button filling the hole. For some reason some of the finish
had
> chipped off the buttons, and they looked like crap. This was on all the
> chairs, and they weren't cheap.
>
> I showed it to my wife who replied, "yeah?"
>
> I wonder why they all had finish chipped off the buttons.
> I wonder why people buy chairs that look like crap.
>

BA

B A R R Y

in reply to "Toller" on 10/11/2006 3:01 PM

11/11/2006 12:36 AM

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 17:09:49 -0600, Frank Boettcher
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>At least I've quit pointing them out and just take the compliments
>when they come. I think people who view your work just see the big
>picture and since they were not with you fretting over the mistakes
>and how to recover from them, they don't see them.

Man, that is an excellent point!

In the music (and for that matter, stage acting) performance world,
you can often tell a newbie from a pro by how they deal with a
mistake. *MOST* musicians make an odd mistake on stage, newbies make
sour faces or make gestures at the band mates and telegraph it to the
audience, pros keep smiling and forget it ever happened. <G>

Why do so many woodworkers feel the need to point out the smallest
flaws?

TT

"Toller"

in reply to "Toller" on 10/11/2006 3:01 PM

10/11/2006 5:34 PM


"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Toller"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>Every now and then someone posts, asking if we view our own work too
>>critically. Apparently.
>
> Maybe your wife just has low standards.
>
You've been talking to her?

c

in reply to "Toller" on 10/11/2006 3:01 PM

10/11/2006 7:16 PM


>
>So I go back to my wife. She tells me to leave it alone because she can't
>see what I am pointing at; but reminds me that she couldn't see the first
>one either.


I'm in love with your wife. When she's had enuff of your mistakes,
she can come here and ignore mine.

Pete

Pp

Puckdropper

in reply to "Toller" on 10/11/2006 3:01 PM

11/11/2006 5:29 AM

Tom Watson <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
>
> It is time for you to embrace the concept of "The Persian Flaw".
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Tom Watson

Tom, do you mind giving a short description of what a "Persian Flaw" is?
I haven't heard the term before, and some Google searching left me with
only a vague idea.

Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

rp

r payne

in reply to "Toller" on 10/11/2006 3:01 PM

12/11/2006 12:33 AM



Toller wrote:

> "Puckdropper" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Tom Watson <[email protected]> wrote in
> > news:[email protected]:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> It is time for you to embrace the concept of "The Persian Flaw".
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Tom Watson
> >
> > Tom, do you mind giving a short description of what a "Persian Flaw" is?
> > I haven't heard the term before, and some Google searching left me with
> > only a vague idea.
> >
> Rugs are always made with an "error" because only God is perfect.
> A bit silly, since even the absolutely best rug is bound to have a slightly
> crooked stitch. Because, of course, only God IS perfect.
> (Just as my absolutely best work has (multiple) slight imperfections.)

I'm trying really hard to stay away from showing my flaws. Maybe 1 in 50
notices something and asks, if you assume some are too polite to say anything
then maybe 1 in 10 or 20 notices.

And I haven't yet met a god who is perfect (not even "God").

ron

FB

Frank Boettcher

in reply to "Toller" on 10/11/2006 3:01 PM

10/11/2006 5:09 PM

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 17:09:57 GMT, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>I am making (still...) a set of dining room chairs. I put a biscuit slot
>>on the wrong face, right where it will be most visible. I had too much
>>work into it to start over, so I found a piece of scrap with the same color
>>and grain, and cut a plug. Fortunately the slot is parallel to the grain.
>>It looked pretty good, but the work has prominent rays and the plug just
>>doesn't match. I though the plug was too small to matter, but it did.
>>
>> I showed it to my wife and asked her what she thought. About what? The
>> repaired damage. Where? There. Oh, I never would have noticed that.
>>
>> Well, I stared at it for a while and decided it was hideous. Ripped it
>> out, found a piece of scrap with the same color, grain AND rays. Looks so
>> much better. There is just a tiny black line at the top and bottom of the
>> plug; otherwise invisible. I thought maybe I could get rid of them with
>> some filler, or maybe I would make it worse?
>>
>> So I go back to my wife. She tells me to leave it alone because she can't
>> see what I am pointing at; but reminds me that she couldn't see the first
>> one either.
>>
>> Every now and then someone posts, asking if we view our own work too
>> critically. Apparently.
>
>Soon you will forget...........

Boy I wish. Seems like I remember every flaw in every piece I've ever
done, and believe me there are plenty to remember. But when I show
other folks, they never see them.

At least I've quit pointing them out and just take the compliments
when they come. I think people who view your work just see the big
picture and since they were not with you fretting over the mistakes
and how to recover from them, they don't see them.

Frank

BH

Brian Henderson

in reply to "Toller" on 10/11/2006 3:01 PM

11/11/2006 6:55 AM

On Sat, 11 Nov 2006 00:36:35 GMT, B A R R Y <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Why do so many woodworkers feel the need to point out the smallest
>flaws?

I did a big custom bookshelf for my wife for her birthday last year,
everythin was perfect, but when I cut the rabbet for the back, I cut
it a little larger than I should have and the back didn't fit like I
wanted. I could have redone the back, but I was out of time, so I
just tacked it into place and nobody would ever know since the piece
is attached to the wall.

But every time I look at that bookshelf, I know the back isn't how it
should be. It doesn't really bug me, but we do see our mistakes
forever. Almost a year later, I still wish I could have done it
better at the time.

RC

"Rick's Cabinet Shop"

in reply to "Toller" on 10/11/2006 3:01 PM

10/11/2006 11:30 PM

Not long ago, I had a customer call me for a bookcase. They said that they
had purchased a TV stand from me years ago and love it. When I went to
their house for the bookcase estimate, I saw my TV stand. It was one of the
first ones I made when I was starting out about 5 years ago. My god, what a
mess! I wanted to take it and replace it with a new one free of charge.
The finish was horrible, the proportions were off, the stain was uneven.
Back then, I guess it was the best I could do. The customer is telling me
how great it is.............. wait till they get the bookcase!

Rick
--
Rick Nagy
Johnstown, PA

[email protected] - Remove nospam to email me
Be sure to check out my website at http://www.rickscabinetshop.com


"Toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am making (still...) a set of dining room chairs. I put a biscuit slot
>on the wrong face, right where it will be most visible. I had too much
>work into it to start over, so I found a piece of scrap with the same color
>and grain, and cut a plug. Fortunately the slot is parallel to the grain.
>It looked pretty good, but the work has prominent rays and the plug just
>doesn't match. I though the plug was too small to matter, but it did.
>
> I showed it to my wife and asked her what she thought. About what? The
> repaired damage. Where? There. Oh, I never would have noticed that.
>
> Well, I stared at it for a while and decided it was hideous. Ripped it
> out, found a piece of scrap with the same color, grain AND rays. Looks so
> much better. There is just a tiny black line at the top and bottom of the
> plug; otherwise invisible. I thought maybe I could get rid of them with
> some filler, or maybe I would make it worse?
>
> So I go back to my wife. She tells me to leave it alone because she can't
> see what I am pointing at; but reminds me that she couldn't see the first
> one either.
>
> Every now and then someone posts, asking if we view our own work too
> critically. Apparently.
>

sD

[email protected] (Doug Miller)

in reply to "Toller" on 10/11/2006 3:01 PM

11/11/2006 12:58 PM

In article <[email protected]>, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>An example: A trim carpenter should be able to cope a joint ... I'll give
>you a dollar for every one you can find that can, or even knows what/why, if
>you'll give me a dime for those that can't/won't ... I'd get rich down here
>on the Third Coast.

I won't take that bet. BTDT. I'm on jobsite, coping an inside corner. Crew
boss comes by... "What are you doing?" I tell him. He says "just miter it -
faster and it fits better". Wellllll... his miter saw probably *is* faster...
but my corners fit together a lot better than his.


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Lr

"Leon"

in reply to "Toller" on 10/11/2006 3:01 PM

10/11/2006 5:09 PM


"Toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am making (still...) a set of dining room chairs. I put a biscuit slot
>on the wrong face, right where it will be most visible. I had too much
>work into it to start over, so I found a piece of scrap with the same color
>and grain, and cut a plug. Fortunately the slot is parallel to the grain.
>It looked pretty good, but the work has prominent rays and the plug just
>doesn't match. I though the plug was too small to matter, but it did.
>
> I showed it to my wife and asked her what she thought. About what? The
> repaired damage. Where? There. Oh, I never would have noticed that.
>
> Well, I stared at it for a while and decided it was hideous. Ripped it
> out, found a piece of scrap with the same color, grain AND rays. Looks so
> much better. There is just a tiny black line at the top and bottom of the
> plug; otherwise invisible. I thought maybe I could get rid of them with
> some filler, or maybe I would make it worse?
>
> So I go back to my wife. She tells me to leave it alone because she can't
> see what I am pointing at; but reminds me that she couldn't see the first
> one either.
>
> Every now and then someone posts, asking if we view our own work too
> critically. Apparently.

Soon you will forget. I built my first kitchen 17 years ago and use 35mm
Euro hinges on the doors. On the end cabinet next to the garage door near
the floor I drilled the 35mm hole on the front of the cabinet door for the
hinge before realizing that I was drilling on the wrong side. You can see
the hinge if you look through the hole in the door. Yes the hole is still
there and yes I had gotten about it, until now.

Sk

"Swingman"

in reply to "Toller" on 10/11/2006 3:01 PM

11/11/2006 6:20 AM


"Mike O." wrote in message
> On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 18:00:51 -0600, "Swingman" wrote:
>
> >Hey, that's what the trim carpenters of today do ... let the painters
take
> >care of it.
>
> The painters around here have a hard time painting walls much less
> finishing wood. I wouldn't count on the painters to do their job
> correctly much less fix anything!

The point is/was, that shoddy work is ubiquitous these days in the carpenter
realm, mainly due to an unskilled and poorly supervised labor force.
Depending upon locale, if the house you live in was built in the last 20
years, chances are the carpentry is "adequate" at best.

An example: A trim carpenter should be able to cope a joint ... I'll give
you a dollar for every one you can find that can, or even knows what/why, if
you'll give me a dime for those that can't/won't ... I'd get rich down here
on the Third Coast.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/29/06

sD

[email protected] (Doug Miller)

in reply to "Toller" on 10/11/2006 3:01 PM

10/11/2006 3:06 PM

In article <[email protected]>, "Toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Every now and then someone posts, asking if we view our own work too
>critically. Apparently.

Maybe your wife just has low standards.

(That was a joke...)

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Sk

"Swingman"

in reply to "Toller" on 10/11/2006 3:01 PM

10/11/2006 6:00 PM

"Leon" wrote in message

> If I ever sell my house, I planned on doing that about 15 years ago, I'll
> just caulk the hole and paint over it. :~)
> Swingman are you reading this?

Hey, that's what the trim carpenters of today do ... let the painters take
care of it.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/29/06

Pg

Patriarch

in reply to "Toller" on 10/11/2006 3:01 PM

10/11/2006 11:22 AM

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Soon you will forget. I built my first kitchen 17 years ago and use
> 35mm Euro hinges on the doors. On the end cabinet next to the garage
> door near the floor I drilled the 35mm hole on the front of the
> cabinet door for the hinge before realizing that I was drilling on the
> wrong side. You can see the hinge if you look through the hole in the
> door. Yes the hole is still there and yes I had gotten about it,
> until now.
>

Rockler used to sell these plug kits for folks who did the same things when
mounting Euro hinges. Not cheap, when you consider the price for a couple
of tapered rounds of hardwood, in various flavors. But cheaper than
redoing a door.

Not that _I_ ever used these. Well, only one. In maple. Doesn't show too
badly. Ought to redo that door.

Patriarch

EP

"Edwin Pawlowski"

in reply to "Toller" on 10/11/2006 3:01 PM

10/11/2006 6:45 PM


"Toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Every now and then someone posts, asking if we view our own work too
> critically. Apparently.

I can't be of much help as I've never had an error in my woodworking. I've
often altered the original plans a bit though.

MO

Mike O.

in reply to "Toller" on 10/11/2006 3:01 PM

11/11/2006 1:33 PM

On Sat, 11 Nov 2006 06:20:55 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:

>> The painters around here have a hard time painting walls much less
>> finishing wood. I wouldn't count on the painters to do their job
>> correctly much less fix anything!
>
>The point is/was, that shoddy work is ubiquitous these days in the carpenter
>realm, mainly due to an unskilled and poorly supervised labor force.
>Depending upon locale, if the house you live in was built in the last 20
>years, chances are the carpentry is "adequate" at best.

I think I got your point Swingman, but having been a finish carpenter
for well over 25 years (and still doing it daily) I may have taken it
a little personally that I (as a trim carpenter) might count on a
painter to "take care of it". Your generalities may be your
experience but the exceptions do exist.
BTW my home was built in the last 10 years and I'll put the quality of
the trim work up against any anywhere.

>An example: A trim carpenter should be able to cope a joint ... I'll give
>you a dollar for every one you can find that can

Please send my dollar.....make that two because my partner knows how
to cope too.:) He's been doing this longer than I have and we both
were taught by his Dad and Uncle (both gone now) who had been doing it
for 30 years before that. I think that qualifies us for the "old
school" of finish carpentry.

>, or even knows what/why, if
>you'll give me a dime for those that can't/won't ... I'd get rich down here
>on the Third Coast.

I'd suggest that the quality of a trim job has more to do with the
builder and what he's willing to pay for. A lot of builders don't
know what a good trim job looks like until they actually get one. If
a builder demands quality (and will pay for it) he can find it quite
easily. I'll give you a dollar for every builder you find that wants
to pay to have his base coped. It costs more to do it right and many
builders just look at the price points. It might be cheaper and
easier to find an "adequate" trim crew but if you demand better than
that, we're out there.
We have always been busy through the good times and the slow times. I
believe that to be a testament to the quality of our product. We're
not the cheapest in this area, but we don't try to be. I've seen the
poor trim jobs (they are quite common) and those carpenters last about
as long as the builders they work for. I've seen a lot of both come
and go over the years and we're still here making sawdust.

Mike O.

FB

Frank Boettcher

in reply to "Toller" on 10/11/2006 3:01 PM

11/11/2006 9:28 AM

On Sat, 11 Nov 2006 06:20:55 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Mike O." wrote in message
>> On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 18:00:51 -0600, "Swingman" wrote:
>>
>> >Hey, that's what the trim carpenters of today do ... let the painters
>take
>> >care of it.
>>
>> The painters around here have a hard time painting walls much less
>> finishing wood. I wouldn't count on the painters to do their job
>> correctly much less fix anything!
>
>The point is/was, that shoddy work is ubiquitous these days in the carpenter
>realm, mainly due to an unskilled and poorly supervised labor force.
>Depending upon locale, if the house you live in was built in the last 20
>years, chances are the carpentry is "adequate" at best.
>
>An example: A trim carpenter should be able to cope a joint ... I'll give
>you a dollar for every one you can find that can, or even knows what/why, if
>you'll give me a dime for those that can't/won't ... I'd get rich down here
>on the Third Coast.


I set up my miter saw station to trim out a Habitat house last year,
got out my coping saw, and the HH lead carpenter said "we don't
usually go to that kind of trouble", I replied, "you're in luck.
Won't cost one dime more for me to do it right, but it will make me
feel much better".

But I will say most of the finish carpenters working for the better
homebuilders in this area do cope inside corners.

Frank

TT

"Toller"

in reply to "Toller" on 10/11/2006 3:01 PM

11/11/2006 5:43 AM


"Puckdropper" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Tom Watson <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>>
>>
>> It is time for you to embrace the concept of "The Persian Flaw".
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Tom Watson
>
> Tom, do you mind giving a short description of what a "Persian Flaw" is?
> I haven't heard the term before, and some Google searching left me with
> only a vague idea.
>
Rugs are always made with an "error" because only God is perfect.
A bit silly, since even the absolutely best rug is bound to have a slightly
crooked stitch. Because, of course, only God IS perfect.
(Just as my absolutely best work has (multiple) slight imperfections.)

TT

"Toller"

in reply to "Toller" on 10/11/2006 3:01 PM

12/11/2006 7:22 PM

Last night we were shopping for a couch. I stopped by the chairs to see how
they were made. They all had the arms attached to the backs with screws,
with a big button filling the hole. For some reason some of the finish had
chipped off the buttons, and they looked like crap. This was on all the
chairs, and they weren't cheap.

I showed it to my wife who replied, "yeah?"

I wonder why they all had finish chipped off the buttons.
I wonder why people buy chairs that look like crap.


"Toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am making (still...) a set of dining room chairs. I put a biscuit slot
>on the wrong face, right where it will be most visible. I had too much
>work into it to start over, so I found a piece of scrap with the same color
>and grain, and cut a plug. Fortunately the slot is parallel to the grain.
>It looked pretty good, but the work has prominent rays and the plug just
>doesn't match. I though the plug was too small to matter, but it did.
>
> I showed it to my wife and asked her what she thought. About what? The
> repaired damage. Where? There. Oh, I never would have noticed that.
>
> Well, I stared at it for a while and decided it was hideous. Ripped it
> out, found a piece of scrap with the same color, grain AND rays. Looks so
> much better. There is just a tiny black line at the top and bottom of the
> plug; otherwise invisible. I thought maybe I could get rid of them with
> some filler, or maybe I would make it worse?
>
> So I go back to my wife. She tells me to leave it alone because she can't
> see what I am pointing at; but reminds me that she couldn't see the first
> one either.
>
> Every now and then someone posts, asking if we view our own work too
> critically. Apparently.
>

BH

Brian Henderson

in reply to "Toller" on 10/11/2006 3:01 PM

11/11/2006 5:46 PM

On Sat, 11 Nov 2006 13:44:01 GMT, B A R R Y <[email protected]>
wrote:

>But why do so many feel the need to SHOW it to everyone?

No clue, I never pointed it out to my wife, she has no idea and
wouldn't care anyhow. I know, but I'm not going to be showing it to
anyone else, especially since it's completely invisible without
ripping it off the wall.

MO

Mike O.

in reply to "Toller" on 10/11/2006 3:01 PM

10/11/2006 8:33 PM

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 18:00:51 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Hey, that's what the trim carpenters of today do ... let the painters take
>care of it.

The painters around here have a hard time painting walls much less
finishing wood. I wouldn't count on the painters to do their job
correctly much less fix anything!

Mike O.

TT

"Toller"

in reply to "Toller" on 10/11/2006 3:01 PM

11/11/2006 2:13 PM


"Brian Henderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 11 Nov 2006 00:36:35 GMT, B A R R Y <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>Why do so many woodworkers feel the need to point out the smallest
>>flaws?
>
> I did a big custom bookshelf for my wife for her birthday last year,
> everythin was perfect, but when I cut the rabbet for the back, I cut
> it a little larger than I should have and the back didn't fit like I
> wanted. I could have redone the back, but I was out of time, so I
> just tacked it into place and nobody would ever know since the piece
> is attached to the wall.
>
> But every time I look at that bookshelf, I know the back isn't how it
> should be. It doesn't really bug me, but we do see our mistakes
> forever. Almost a year later, I still wish I could have done it
> better at the time.

I did a beautiful cabinet, but when I oiled it the cherry plywood panel in
the door it showed a weird pattern. I lived with it for a year and then
routed the back out and replaced the plywood. Now it is gorgeous. Okay,
the fact that the inside of the door is imperfect bugs me, but I did a good
job and anyone (but me of course) would think that it was just how I built
it.

BA

B A R R Y

in reply to "Toller" on 10/11/2006 3:01 PM

11/11/2006 1:44 PM

On Sat, 11 Nov 2006 06:55:21 GMT, Brian Henderson
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Almost a year later, I still wish I could have done it
>better at the time.

Right.

We all have those. <G>

But why do so many feel the need to SHOW it to everyone?

LM

"Lee Michaels"

in reply to "Toller" on 10/11/2006 3:01 PM

10/11/2006 4:41 PM


"Toller" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> So I go back to my wife. She tells me to leave it alone because she can't
> see what I am pointing at; but reminds me that she couldn't see the first
> one either.
>

Didn't you get the memo about confessing imaginary sins to your wife?
Luckily, she had the good sense to ignore you.

Remember, in the future, it ain't a mistake. It is a design feature.


Lr

"Leon"

in reply to "Toller" on 10/11/2006 3:01 PM

10/11/2006 9:23 PM


"Patriarch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>>
>
> Rockler used to sell these plug kits for folks who did the same things
> when
> mounting Euro hinges. Not cheap, when you consider the price for a couple
> of tapered rounds of hardwood, in various flavors. But cheaper than
> redoing a door.
>
> Not that _I_ ever used these. Well, only one. In maple. Doesn't show
> too
> badly. Ought to redo that door.


If I ever sell my house, I planned on doing that about 15 years ago, I'll
just caulk the hole and paint over it. :~)
Swingman are you reading this?


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