Psychology of a woodworker

Man. Given the extremely small chance that this guy is a woodworker, he
needs to call the suicide hotline!

Or.......maybe this is just some woodworker's wife.

Or, if you're into "advanced" "power(?)" tools - bone knives and
stone axes.
[Does anyone remember the original Star Trek?]

Renata

BTW, quite funny (the reply)!

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 10:32:03 -0600, Dave Balderstone
<dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_S.balderstone.ca> wrote:

>Me like hit board with rock.
>
>
>In article <[email protected]>, mel
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> What drives the intellectual analyst? An attempt to find the answer to his
>> own flaws by attempting to identify similar traits in others? Could it be
>> that the absence of his own paternal relationship doesn't allow him to
>> possess the ability to correctly characterize those relationships shared by
>> others? The insecurities of being devoid of all emotion and experience? The
>> realization that intellect doesn't allow for an explanation to that empty
>> void in one's soul? Why does the white-collar intellect feel so threatened
>> by the so-called blue-collar common man? The realization that the
>> dependency is one way? If we removed one or the other from the face of this
>> earth who'd have a better chance of survival?
>>
>> Insecurity motivates the intellect to attempt to point out a level of
>> significance for his own life. A level he lacks the ability to earn. A
>> level that only exists in his own deeply rooted desire to measure up to the
>> standards set by a paternal relationship that never existed. Why is it this
>> same boy will never matured into a self sufficient man? A lack of
>> understanding the feeling one gets from seeing the product of one's
>> imagination becoming a reality through application of skill, perseverance
>> and effort? The lack of ability to achieve anything of significance?
>>
>> Whether a hobbyist, craftsman or professional..... woodworkers possess one
>> common trait. The ability to attempt without the crippling fear of failure.

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 15:47:01 -0700, Larry Jaques
<novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 20:09:56 GMT, Lazarus Long <[email protected]>
>calmly ranted:
>
>>On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 13:44:28 -0400, [email protected] (J T)
>>wrote:
>>>
>>>JOAT
>>>Eagles can soar ... but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
>>
>>www.wickedweasel.com
>
>There went MY entire afternoon. Thanks a lot, Laz.

Thought you guys would like that! I was kinda impressed myself.

Ba r r y wrote:
> On 24 Oct 2004 03:24:59 -0700, "Man In The Doorway"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >What drives the common woodworker?
>
> What drives a troll?
>

I wouldn't know. By all means, please tell us.

Jim Behning wrote:
> That has got to be a difficult read!

It must be especially difficult reading for the typical woodworker. I
don't say that to be nasty. Woodworkers are skilled craftsmen, in a
primitive sort of way, but most of the ones I encounter have unusually
poor reading comprehension skills.

I suspect that some need the designer label of power tools to add to their
Testicular Circumferance - that Antlers of Manhood. But some of us paid
attention in Mr Williams 7th grade shop class and enjoy the uniqueness and
savings that can be had with all those little things we do.

"Rudy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BFTed.13184$nl.12389@pd7tw3no...
>
>>> What drives a troll?
>
> My 1963 Evinrude 3 HP 'Fastwin'

Damn, you got me by a year
SH <------- Proud owner of a '64 Evinrude 3hp that I someday will restore.

Yea, I know it's a troll, but it made me think, and gave me a wish to vent.

> What drives the common woodworker? A deeply suppressed desire to please
> the long deceased father who never gave him love as a child?

No. Dad was an alcoholic narcissist and didn't care about anybody else. As
far as I'm concerned he didn't even exist. When I heard he had died, I
looked around and the world was just the same. He did teach me, by example,
how NOT to treat other people.

> The need to be seen as an alpha male by everyone else around him?

No. Everybody I know already thinks I'm a dork.

> The insecurities of being a non-intellectual blue-collar common man with
> calluses on his hands and feet?

Wrong again, I'm a self taught software and electronic engineer. I spent 30
years designing, building, programming and running all kinds of computer
hardware. I decided to teach myself woodworking after watching Norm for a
while.

> Why do hobbyist woodworkers feel the need to own the same caliber tools
> as the professionals? Is there really anything wrong with Craftsman or
> Black and Decker products? Probably not.

I disagree. I started woodworking using cheap tools and despite that I stuck
with it. Cheap tools are harder to use, harder to keep tuned, and harder to
get consistant results with. I find that using high caliber, high quality
tools makes working with wood more satisfying and less frustrating. So I
save my pennies and get the best.

> Insecurity motivates too many
> woodworkers to waste hard earned cash on tools they have absolutely no
> use for.

The only tool I bought that I've never used is a dowling jig. Everything
else is used. I wore out two routers
.
> Why do they feel such a need to show off, when nobody really
> cares what they own?

I never published pictures or bragged about what tools I bought. To many
know-it-all wise-ass critics out there. I researched and bought the tools I
wanted to buy, and really appreciated the ones I received as gifts. Nobody
ever asked for an inventory (except for my insurance agent). Sure I might
own some of the best tools money can buy, but it was my money, I earned it
and I use the heck out of all of them. They are not trophies, they are
TOOLS.

> .... when nobody really cares about their projects?

You may not care, but the folks I give homemade items to sure seem to
appreciate them. Nobody has ever given back or otherwise disposed of an
item we made them that we know of. If I ever made anything that was useless,
it was for the enjoyment of making it.

> when anyone could go out and buy the same desk, futon, or humidor for half
> of what is costs to build one?

Your missing another point. We don't build the exact same desk, futon, etc
as they have in the stores. We either build them better, with better
construction or better materials, or build them to meet our personal needs
exactly. All the furniture I built for this house was built to meet MY
needs. There are a lot of store bought items here too.

I have a friend that was low on cash but wanted a new desk for her then
boyfriend. She shopped and found she couldn't afford anything. We offered
and built a 4 drawer desk from #2 pine and luan plywood and other leftovers.
It took us two days for under $25. Five years later he's still using it. It
was a fun project. Very entertaining. Another couple wanted a toybox. They
worked in the shop with us to build and decorate it. Their kids appreciate
it more than a store-bought box. Another young neighbor wanted a dresser,
asked me to build him one. I offered to help him build his own. He accepted,
and he and his dad used my shop to build exactly what he wanted. We all
enjoyed that project.

In fact, there isn't a house on this block in which we haven't contributed
some kind of woodworking.

A lot of time I'll take on a project to build something because I want to
see if I can do it. When friends and neighbors ask me to do something, it is
always because they couldn't find an off-the-shelf solution to their
problems. It is a challenge to come up with a working solution. Then, I only
ask to be reimbersed for materials, I never charge for labor. That's what
keeps it a hobby.

Sometimes I even build something just to see if I can do it. I know somebody
else can, (Norm!) but the trick is to see if I can do it. I also make my own
plans. Only three times have I started a project with somebody else's plans.
Even then there were serious tweaks involved.

> Insecurity!

You know what, I don't have to explain myself to you. Ignore what you just
read (unless you got bored and quit reading already). I got to go put a coat
of poly on my latest project.

Andy

On 24 Oct 2004 03:24:59 -0700, "Man In The Doorway"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>What drives the common woodworker?

What drives a troll?

>Insecurity!

Probably.

Barry

What drives the intellectual analyst? An attempt to find the answer to his
own flaws by attempting to identify similar traits in others? Could it be
that the absence of his own paternal relationship doesn't allow him to
possess the ability to correctly characterize those relationships shared by
others? The insecurities of being devoid of all emotion and experience? The
realization that intellect doesn't allow for an explanation to that empty
void in one's soul? Why does the white-collar intellect feel so threatened
by the so-called blue-collar common man? The realization that the
dependency is one way? If we removed one or the other from the face of this
earth who'd have a better chance of survival?

Insecurity motivates the intellect to attempt to point out a level of
significance for his own life. A level he lacks the ability to earn. A
level that only exists in his own deeply rooted desire to measure up to the
standards set by a paternal relationship that never existed. Why is it this
same boy will never matured into a self sufficient man? A lack of
understanding the feeling one gets from seeing the product of one's
imagination becoming a reality through application of skill, perseverance
and effort? The lack of ability to achieve anything of significance?

Whether a hobbyist, craftsman or professional..... woodworkers possess one
common trait. The ability to attempt without the crippling fear of failure.

Amen. Didn't Dostoyevsky write that
novel, The Brothers Sawdustamazov?

Me like hit board with rock.


In article <[email protected]>, mel
<[email protected]> wrote:

> What drives the intellectual analyst? An attempt to find the answer to his
> own flaws by attempting to identify similar traits in others? Could it be
> that the absence of his own paternal relationship doesn't allow him to
> possess the ability to correctly characterize those relationships shared by
> others? The insecurities of being devoid of all emotion and experience? The
> realization that intellect doesn't allow for an explanation to that empty
> void in one's soul? Why does the white-collar intellect feel so threatened
> by the so-called blue-collar common man? The realization that the
> dependency is one way? If we removed one or the other from the face of this
> earth who'd have a better chance of survival?
>
> Insecurity motivates the intellect to attempt to point out a level of
> significance for his own life. A level he lacks the ability to earn. A
> level that only exists in his own deeply rooted desire to measure up to the
> standards set by a paternal relationship that never existed. Why is it this
> same boy will never matured into a self sufficient man? A lack of
> understanding the feeling one gets from seeing the product of one's
> imagination becoming a reality through application of skill, perseverance
> and effort? The lack of ability to achieve anything of significance?
>
> Whether a hobbyist, craftsman or professional..... woodworkers possess one
> common trait. The ability to attempt without the crippling fear of failure.

In article <[email protected]>, mel
<[email protected]> wrote:

> What drives the intellectual analyst? An attempt to find the answer to his
> own flaws by attempting to identify similar traits in others? Could it be
> that the absence of his own paternal relationship doesn't allow him to
> possess the ability to correctly characterize those relationships shared by
> others? The insecurities of being devoid of all emotion and experience? The
> realization that intellect doesn't allow for an explanation to that empty
> void in one's soul? Why does the white-collar intellect feel so threatened
> by the so-called blue-collar common man? The realization that the
> dependency is one way? If we removed one or the other from the face of this
> earth who'd have a better chance of survival?
>
> Insecurity motivates the intellect to attempt to point out a level of
> significance for his own life. A level he lacks the ability to earn. A
> level that only exists in his own deeply rooted desire to measure up to the
> standards set by a paternal relationship that never existed. Why is it this
> same boy will never matured into a self sufficient man? A lack of
> understanding the feeling one gets from seeing the product of one's
> imagination becoming a reality through application of skill, perseverance
> and effort? The lack of ability to achieve anything of significance?
>
> Whether a hobbyist, craftsman or professional..... woodworkers possess one
> common trait. The ability to attempt without the crippling fear of failure.
>
>

I saw this before I think.

This is John Kerry's debate answer (never used) to the question: "Would
you continue to support PBS's New Yankee Workshop if elected?"

(apologies in advance to all)

Lou

In article <[email protected]>, Tom Veatch
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Dave - you owe me for a new bottle of screen cleaner!

;-)

In article <[email protected]>, Lazarus Long
<[email protected]> wrote:

> www.wickedweasel.com

NOT work safe.

Thanks!

In article <[email protected]>, Sam
<[email protected]> wrote:

> B.T.W., what is the best rock to use,in
> terms of weight,size,density,texture, for banging air dried hardwoods?
> Do I need different ones for softwoods? I can imagine a well equipped
> shop should have a whole rack of rocks. Would imported rocks be worth
> the extra cost, are foreign rocks made better? I hope they're not too
> expensive. Will bricks or cement blocks work? Are there any books, or
> videos or "schools" that can teach the basics?

Me use big rock.

Sun, Oct 24, 2004, 3:24am (EDT-3) [email protected]
(Man=A0In=A0The=A0Doorway) burbled:
<snip of a batch of psychodrivel>

ROTFLMAO That you Dave?



JOAT
Eagles can soar ... but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

"Man In The Doorway" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> What drives the common woodworker? A deeply suppressed desire to please
> the long deceased father who never gave him love as a child? The need
> to be seen as an alpha male by everyone else around him? The
> insecurities of being a non-intellectual blue-collar common man with
> calluses on his hands and feet?
>
> Why do hobbyist woodworkers feel the need to own the same caliber tools
> as the professionals? Is there really anything wrong with Craftsman or
> Black and Decker products? Probably not. Insecurity motivates too many
> woodworkers to waste hard earned cash on tools they have absolutely no
> use for. Why do they feel such a need to show off, when nobody really
> cares what they own? .... when nobody really cares about their
> projects? .... when anyone could go out and buy the same desk, futon,
> or humidor for half of what is costs to build one?
>
> Insecurity!

I presume you've been hurt badly (perhaps by a woodworker), and are
trying to work through that by passing on the hurt. Most of us can
handle wrathfulness, I'm sorry that you got hurt. It sounds like
you've discovered some of our weaknesses, but everyone has those. You
made a point of demonstrating what yours is.

I also suspect that, at the core, you don't feel better after your
negative remarks. You may find that a more constructive cast will
yield better results.

Lazarus Long wrote:

>
> www.wickedweasel.com

You have to admire the commercaial acumen that can sell
so little lycra for so much money,

Or you might admire something else at that site :-)

BugBear

Man In The Doorway wrote:

<< pretty much as before >>

Wow! A 3 year interval without posting. That's pretty
good. But you shoulda' made it at least a whole decade.

For all our sakes.

BugBear

To listen to many of today's educators, we need computer labs, not shops.



Charles Spitzer wrote:

> "Mutt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Although I went to college and graduate school, I wasn't so sure I
> > wanted to be there, but I had the ability and work ethic and was a
> > good "student" so I went. It was the thing to do. In reflection, I
> > would have preferred to become an electrician, plumber or finish
> > carpenter rather than a lawyer. I'm not complaining, mind you, as I
> > do enjoy lawyering and its still fun, but I think I'd have gotten more
> > long term satisfaction running a electrical or plumbing company.
> >
> > It bothers me that the public/county vocational and technical schools
> > (the alterantive to traditional high schools in my day) are slowly
> > closing, one by one; I see the equipment auctions in the paper.
> > Private trade schools exist, but are few and far between and not
> > everyone has the tuition money. We need to turn around this tendency.
> >
> > Mutt.
>
> i have this discussion with my wife frequently. she teaches 7th & 8th
> grades. it's really the nea and school district bureaucracy, which
> apparently is goaled on how many kids get accepted to college. if that's the
> goal, it's no wonder that they don't have vo-tech anymore, since that is
> seen as failing for a school.

Although I went to college and graduate school, I wasn't so sure I
wanted to be there, but I had the ability and work ethic and was a
good "student" so I went. It was the thing to do. In reflection, I
would have preferred to become an electrician, plumber or finish
carpenter rather than a lawyer. I'm not complaining, mind you, as I
do enjoy lawyering and its still fun, but I think I'd have gotten more
long term satisfaction running a electrical or plumbing company.

It bothers me that the public/county vocational and technical schools
(the alterantive to traditional high schools in my day) are slowly
closing, one by one; I see the equipment auctions in the paper.
Private trade schools exist, but are few and far between and not
everyone has the tuition money. We need to turn around this tendency.

Mutt.

[email protected] (ktc) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Point well taken. One of the consequences of this mentality is our
> obsession with the idea that every kid has to go to college. For those
> who want to go into a field where college is really required fine, but
> not every kid wants to persue those jobs. Meanwhile there are real
> shortages of talent in many craft and trade areas like woodworking.
> Custom shops are begging for young talented people. Some of the trade
> groups in this area are setting up apprentice programs where the
> students are paid good wages to take part in the program, just to get
> some people into the system. Any colleges payingyou to go
> there...unless you play football or basketball? After I retired from
> my first career I started teaching computer courses at a local college
> and I had this argument with other members of the faculty. They
> disagreed but their only real argument came down to better pay. I then
> asked them how much they would charge to tutor a student on Saturday
> and they quoted variouus amounts. I took the highest and challenged
> them to get a plumber to come out the following weekend for that
> hourly rate and there was a long silence. A person should be judged by
> his or her talent, not his or her field of work. The sad part is a lot
> of those kids who are pressured into going to college wind up with no
> degree and a big student loan debt the those who pushed them into
> going to college do not seem to want to help pay off.
>
> Ken
>
>

"Man In The Doorway" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> What drives the common woodworker?

I guess we're not so different from trolls, really. We dislike and
point out that, which we hate about ourselves.

Humbly submitted,
O'Deen

obww - I have a 40+ year old B&D jigsaw with an all-aluminum case.
It's very lightweight, and suitable for lightweight work, such as
cutting plywood and up to 1/2" softwoods. Very little vibration. I
also have a B&D professional VS orbital jigsaw that is much heavier
(and much newer, 1990). It was pricey, at around $130 (in 1990
dollars). It has always been a useful, dependable tool. Some of my
other recent (5-10 years ago) B&D tools didn't fair as well.

"Man In The Doorway" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> What drives the common woodworker?

A desire to create something tangible. Why do some people learn to
paint, or to draw, to play the piano, or to cook? It's the same
thing.

> A deeply suppressed desire to please
> the long deceased father who never gave him love as a child? The need
> to be seen as an alpha male by everyone else around him? The
> insecurities of being a non-intellectual blue-collar common man with
> calluses on his hands and feet?

(grunt grunt)

> Why do hobbyist woodworkers feel the need to own the same caliber tools
> as the professionals? Is there really anything wrong with Craftsman or
> Black and Decker products? Probably not. Insecurity motivates too many

The thing wrong with most Craftsman and B&D tools is that they aren't
very much cheaper than real tools, they are less effective, and they
break a lot sooner.

> woodworkers to waste hard earned cash on tools they have absolutely no
> use for. Why do they feel such a need to show off, when nobody really
> cares what they own? .... when nobody really cares about their
> projects? .... when anyone could go out and buy the same desk, futon,
> or humidor for half of what is costs to build one?

Well, most of us don't get into woodworking because we aspire to build
some butt-jointed, screwed together, MDF desk covered with cheap
plastic laminate.

> Insecurity!

Good troll.

Point well taken. One of the consequences of this mentality is our
obsession with the idea that every kid has to go to college. For those
who want to go into a field where college is really required fine, but
not every kid wants to persue those jobs. Meanwhile there are real
shortages of talent in many craft and trade areas like woodworking.
Custom shops are begging for young talented people. Some of the trade
groups in this area are setting up apprentice programs where the
students are paid good wages to take part in the program, just to get
some people into the system. Any colleges payingyou to go
there...unless you play football or basketball? After I retired from
my first career I started teaching computer courses at a local college
and I had this argument with other members of the faculty. They
disagreed but their only real argument came down to better pay. I then
asked them how much they would charge to tutor a student on Saturday
and they quoted variouus amounts. I took the highest and challenged
them to get a plumber to come out the following weekend for that
hourly rate and there was a long silence. A person should be judged by
his or her talent, not his or her field of work. The sad part is a lot
of those kids who are pressured into going to college wind up with no
degree and a big student loan debt the those who pushed them into
going to college do not seem to want to help pay off.

Ken


"mel" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> What drives the intellectual analyst? An attempt to find the answer to his
> own flaws by attempting to identify similar traits in others? Could it be
> that the absence of his own paternal relationship doesn't allow him to
> possess the ability to correctly characterize those relationships shared by
> others? The insecurities of being devoid of all emotion and experience? The
> realization that intellect doesn't allow for an explanation to that empty
> void in one's soul? Why does the white-collar intellect feel so threatened
> by the so-called blue-collar common man? The realization that the
> dependency is one way? If we removed one or the other from the face of this
> earth who'd have a better chance of survival?
>
> Insecurity motivates the intellect to attempt to point out a level of
> significance for his own life. A level he lacks the ability to earn. A
> level that only exists in his own deeply rooted desire to measure up to the
> standards set by a paternal relationship that never existed. Why is it this
> same boy will never matured into a self sufficient man? A lack of
> understanding the feeling one gets from seeing the product of one's
> imagination becoming a reality through application of skill, perseverance
> and effort? The lack of ability to achieve anything of significance?
>
> Whether a hobbyist, craftsman or professional..... woodworkers possess one
> common trait. The ability to attempt without the crippling fear of failure.

"Man In The Doorway" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

<snip all the psychobabble>
> Is there really anything wrong with Craftsman or
> Black and Decker products? Probably not.
<more psychobabble>

Is there a difference? You bet. Craftsman and B&D are a whole lot
more expensive! I started in on a big project calling for 14 sheets
of baltic bich plywood. After about 4 sheets my trusty 3 year old B&D
sander, for which I had paid the princely sum of about $25, gave up
the ghost. Ran down to the local tool peddler and bought another one.
Hmm, price had gone up to $30. After 7 or 8 more sheets this one
began to smell like roasting coffee beans (good if it's coffee, bad if
it's an electric motor) and quit. Back down to the tool peddler where
the kind salesman took pity on me: "Kid, do yourself a favor. Plunk
down the money for this Makita while it's on sale. I'll even knock
another 10% off because I feel sorry for you. Guaranteed, I won't be
seeing you back here again." Well, he was wrong. He has seen me back
there plenty, but never for another sander! All told, the Makita cost
me about $135 ($80 on sale plus $25 and $30 for the two dead B&Ds)
plus untold hours of frustration and self-damnation for being a
cheapskate. Buying decent tools is kind of like getting a
vaccination: it stings a little at first but saves a lot of pain
later.

Ian

"mel" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> Whether a hobbyist, craftsman or professional..... woodworkers possess one
> common trait. The ability to attempt without the crippling fear of failure.

I don't know that a common trait exists.I do remember reading in a
woodworking magazine somewhere that the crippling fear of failure was
the main cause of procrastination over starting projects and/or the
inability to complete them. B.T.W., what is the best rock to use,in
terms of weight,size,density,texture, for banging air dried hardwoods?
Do I need different ones for softwoods? I can imagine a well equipped
shop should have a whole rack of rocks. Would imported rocks be worth
the extra cost, are foreign rocks made better? I hope they're not too
expensive. Will bricks or cement blocks work? Are there any books, or
videos or "schools" that can teach the basics?

"Man In The Doorway" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> What drives the common woodworker? A deeply suppressed desire to please
> the long deceased father who never gave him love as a child? The need
> to be seen as an alpha male by everyone else around him? The
> insecurities of being a non-intellectual blue-collar common man with
> calluses on his hands and feet?
>
> Why do hobbyist woodworkers feel the need to own the same caliber tools
> as the professionals? Is there really anything wrong with Craftsman or
> Black and Decker products? Probably not. Insecurity motivates too many
> woodworkers to waste hard earned cash on tools they have absolutely no
> use for. Why do they feel such a need to show off, when nobody really
> cares what they own? .... when nobody really cares about their
> projects? .... when anyone could go out and buy the same desk, futon,
> or humidor for half of what is costs to build one?
>
> Insecurity!

Let me guess..Your wife is getting screwed by a woodworker?

>> What drives a troll?

My 1963 Evinrude 3 HP 'Fastwin'

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>> "Man In The Doorway"
>>>> What drives the common woodworker?
>>
[snip]

I've skipped most of this silly thread but -what the heck- it's the ability
to work with our hands and by extension - tools. That ability must (?) be
inborn with some kind of drive to use that ability. Look at the number of
people who sail when motor powered boats would probably be cheaper and even
safer. Garden when they could probably buy flowers and veggies for less
money.

Josie

Geez, and I thought I just liked to play with power tools and make sawdust.
jim


"mel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
What drives the intellectual analyst? An attempt to find the answer to his
own flaws by attempting to identify similar traits in others? Could it be
that the absence of his own paternal relationship doesn't allow him to
possess the ability to correctly characterize those relationships shared by
others? The insecurities of being devoid of all emotion and experience? The
realization that intellect doesn't allow for an explanation to that empty
void in one's soul? Why does the white-collar intellect feel so threatened
by the so-called blue-collar common man? The realization that the
dependency is one way? If we removed one or the other from the face of this
earth who'd have a better chance of survival?

Insecurity motivates the intellect to attempt to point out a level of
significance for his own life. A level he lacks the ability to earn. A
level that only exists in his own deeply rooted desire to measure up to the
standards set by a paternal relationship that never existed. Why is it this
same boy will never matured into a self sufficient man? A lack of
understanding the feeling one gets from seeing the product of one's
imagination becoming a reality through application of skill, perseverance
and effort? The lack of ability to achieve anything of significance?

Whether a hobbyist, craftsman or professional..... woodworkers possess one
common trait. The ability to attempt without the crippling fear of failure.

"Dave Balderstone" <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_S.balderstone.ca> wrote in message
news:271020041647386689%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_S.balderstone.ca...
> In article <[email protected]>, Sam
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > B.T.W., what is the best rock to use,in
> > terms of weight,size,density,texture, for banging air dried hardwoods?
> > Do I need different ones for softwoods? I can imagine a well equipped
> > shop should have a whole rack of rocks. Would imported rocks be worth
> > the extra cost, are foreign rocks made better? I hope they're not too
> > expensive. Will bricks or cement blocks work? Are there any books, or
> > videos or "schools" that can teach the basics?
>
> Me use big rock.

My rock is bigger than your rock.

"Man In The Doorway" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>
but most of the ones I encounter have unusually
> poor reading comprehension skills.


Birds of a feather flock together.....

Man In The Doorway wrote:

> What drives the common woodworker? A deeply suppressed desire
> to please the long deceased father who never gave him love as
> a child? The need to be seen as an alpha male by everyone else
> around him? The insecurities of being a non-intellectual
> blue-collar common man with calluses on his hands and feet?

An intellectually conceited troll person who probably won't be
able to learn anything from even the clearest responses (I'm
inclined to agree with Sidney Lanier's observation that
"Swinehood hath no remedy," but will suggest:

A desire to have or give something more beautiful and/or more
functional (or both) than would otherwise be possible.

A desire to create - to convert a personal vision into reality;
and by so doing to enrich one's own life and the lives of all
others touched by that reality.

> Why do hobbyist woodworkers feel the need to own the same
> caliber tools as the professionals? Is there really anything
> wrong with Craftsman or Black and Decker products? Probably
> not. Insecurity motivates too many woodworkers to waste hard
> earned cash on tools they have absolutely no use for. Why do
> they feel such a need to show off, when nobody really cares
> what they own? .... when nobody really cares about their
> projects? .... when anyone could go out and buy the same desk,
> futon, or humidor for half of what is costs to build one?

For the same reason that you don't own a Yugo. As with other
products, experienced users recognize a spectrum of quality; and
discover that higher quality products deliver the greatest amount
of satisfaction.

You may not care what other people do - but your caring isn't
particularly important. My SO is particularly pleased with her
new light table (that masquerades as a living room end table when
not in use) which allows her to trace her drawings onto fabric
for quilting. Where would you buy such a thing (at /any/ price)?

Next time you're out shopping, take a gander at your options for
heating systems and let me know what kind of prices you find on
furnaces that come with a lifetime supply of free fuel. I doubt
you'll find one for less than what it costs me to build one in my
shop.

> Insecurity!

Sorry to hear that - you might build self-confidence and become
more secure if you spent a bit of your leisure time creating a
few useful and beautiful objects in your own workshop.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA

One troll, 59 responses.
No wonder they do it.

"Man In The Doorway" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> What drives the common woodworker? A deeply suppressed desire to please
> the long deceased father who never gave him love as a child? The need
> to be seen as an alpha male by everyone else around him? The
> insecurities of being a non-intellectual blue-collar common man with
> calluses on his hands and feet?
>
> Why do hobbyist woodworkers feel the need to own the same caliber tools
> as the professionals? Is there really anything wrong with Craftsman or
> Black and Decker products? Probably not. Insecurity motivates too many
> woodworkers to waste hard earned cash on tools they have absolutely no
> use for. Why do they feel such a need to show off, when nobody really
> cares what they own? .... when nobody really cares about their
> projects? .... when anyone could go out and buy the same desk, futon,
> or humidor for half of what is costs to build one?
>
> Insecurity!
>

Gee that must be why I only had to build a hundred feet of bookshelves for
the books I want to keep and reread.
"Man In The Doorway" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Jim Behning wrote:
> > That has got to be a difficult read!
>
> It must be especially difficult reading for the typical woodworker. I
> don't say that to be nasty. Woodworkers are skilled craftsmen, in a
> primitive sort of way, but most of the ones I encounter have unusually
> poor reading comprehension skills.
>

In article <[email protected]>,
Man In The Doorway <[email protected]> wrote:
>What drives the common woodworker? A deeply suppressed desire to please
>the long deceased father who never gave him love as a child? The need
>to be seen as an alpha male by everyone else around him? The
>insecurities of being a non-intellectual blue-collar common man with
>calluses on his hands and feet?
>
>Why do hobbyist woodworkers feel the need to own the same caliber tools
>as the professionals? Is there really anything wrong with Craftsman or
>Black and Decker products? Probably not. Insecurity motivates too many
>woodworkers to waste hard earned cash on tools they have absolutely no
>use for. Why do they feel such a need to show off, when nobody really
>cares what they own? .... when nobody really cares about their
>projects? .... when anyone could go out and buy the same desk, futon,
>or humidor for half of what is costs to build one?
>
>Insecurity!
>

This is not even close to your previous efforts. I can only go about
5.5 here.


--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
[email protected]

Andy Dingley <[email protected]> wrote:

> My local dealer in fine woodworking tools is (deliberately) sandwiched
> between two hospitals and the street of the violin restorers. The
> owner was a doctor, a great many of the clients are surgeons. Look at
> any group of really top-end amateur cabinetmakers and you'll find at
> least one surgeon in there.
>
>

One of the surgeons who did my latest hip replacement is a top amateur.
When I first went to his office they parked me in a small conference room
for a while. Room contained a really well constructed conference table
which looked custom built. By the time he showed up I was on my hands an
knees under the table looking at the joinery. He joined me to point out
some of the problems he'd had and how he'd solved them. Right then I knew I
had the right guy to do the hip.

LD

"Man In The Doorway"
>> What drives the common woodworker?

I drives a Buick.


> A deeply suppressed desire to please
>> the long deceased father who never gave him love as a child?

Nah, he was an acoholic and became a real PITA so we left him.


> The need
>> to be seen as an alpha male by everyone else around him?

Everyone would be my wife. Kids are on their own. Neighbors don't give a
crap.


> The
>> insecurities of being a non-intellectual blue-collar common man with
>> calluses on his hands and feet?

I'm in management but I do have a callus on my foot. I make it a point to
walk around the plant a couple of times a day so I don't get them on my ass
from the comfy chair in my office.


>> Why do hobbyist woodworkers feel the need to own the same caliber tools
>> as the professionals? Is there really anything wrong with Craftsman or
>> Black and Decker products? Probably not.

I've owned both. Evidently you haven't yet or you'd know the answer.


> Insecurity motivates too many
>> woodworkers to waste hard earned cash on tools they have absolutely no
>> use for.

Every tool I own has been used At least once anyway.


> Why do they feel such a need to show off, when nobody really
>> cares what they own? .... when nobody really cares about their
>> projects? ....

That's how we get wood ;)


> when anyone could go out and buy the same desk, futon,
>> or humidor for half of what is costs to build one?
>> Insecurity!

Half? Maybe even a quarter. It isn't about money. IMO, it is more about
security that insecurity. If you don' thave confidence in your abilities
you won't ever start a project, let alone finish one that looks far superior
that the generl cheap furniture foisted off ont he public today.

Hope yo had fun, but you should keep reading about physology as yo haven't
quite mastered it yet. Try night school and take a class.

On 24 Oct 2004 03:24:59 -0700, "Man In The Doorway"
<[email protected]> wrote:

<snip>

>Insecurity!

...about running out of wood or glue !

Lazarus Long <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:00:02 +0100, bugbear
> <bugbear@trim_papermule_trim.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Lazarus Long wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> www.wickedweasel.com
>>
>>You have to admire the commercaial acumen that can sell
>>so little lycra for so much money,
>>
>>Or you might admire something else at that site :-)
>>
>> BugBear
>
> Yeah, noticed both points. Big bux for not so much material.
>

Prices? What were they selling?

On 27 Oct 2004 21:19:04 -0700, [email protected] (ktc) wrote:

>Point well taken. One of the consequences of this mentality is our
>obsession with the idea that every kid has to go to college. For those
>who want to go into a field where college is really required fine, but
>not every kid wants to persue those jobs. Meanwhile there are real
>shortages of talent in many craft and trade areas like woodworking.
>Custom shops are begging for young talented people. Some of the trade
>groups in this area are setting up apprentice programs where the
>students are paid good wages to take part in the program, just to get
>some people into the system. Any colleges payingyou to go
>there...unless you play football or basketball? After I retired from
>my first career I started teaching computer courses at a local college
>and I had this argument with other members of the faculty. They
>disagreed but their only real argument came down to better pay. I then
>asked them how much they would charge to tutor a student on Saturday
>and they quoted variouus amounts. I took the highest and challenged
>them to get a plumber to come out the following weekend for that
>hourly rate and there was a long silence. A person should be judged by
>his or her talent, not his or her field of work.

Bravo, and thank you! I find it amusing sometimes that people look
down their noses at tradesmen, assuming that we're all ignorant clods,
when most shop work requires not only a great deal of problem-solving
ability, but a quite a lot of math as well. Calculating compound
angles, spring force, speeds and feed rates and dozens of other things
is not for the faint of heart when the products you're making must be
right not only the first time, but every time! That isn't to say that
office work isn't stressful and difficult at times as well- but that
sure doesn't make a craftsman stupid just because he (or she, for that
matter) has some grease on his shirt.

> The sad part is a lot
>of those kids who are pressured into going to college wind up with no
>degree and a big student loan debt the those who pushed them into
>going to college do not seem to want to help pay off.

ROFL! You mean like all those kids that go to school for business or
liberal arts? Even a science degree doesn't always mean much- I have
a friend who got his degree in comp. science from the University of
Wisconsin Madison, and he's been selling TVs at a Best Buy for the
past several years...

>Ken
>
>
>"mel" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>> What drives the intellectual analyst? An attempt to find the answer to his
>> own flaws by attempting to identify similar traits in others? Could it be
>> that the absence of his own paternal relationship doesn't allow him to
>> possess the ability to correctly characterize those relationships shared by
>> others? The insecurities of being devoid of all emotion and experience? The
>> realization that intellect doesn't allow for an explanation to that empty
>> void in one's soul? Why does the white-collar intellect feel so threatened
>> by the so-called blue-collar common man? The realization that the
>> dependency is one way? If we removed one or the other from the face of this
>> earth who'd have a better chance of survival?
>>
>> Insecurity motivates the intellect to attempt to point out a level of
>> significance for his own life. A level he lacks the ability to earn. A
>> level that only exists in his own deeply rooted desire to measure up to the
>> standards set by a paternal relationship that never existed. Why is it this
>> same boy will never matured into a self sufficient man? A lack of
>> understanding the feeling one gets from seeing the product of one's
>> imagination becoming a reality through application of skill, perseverance
>> and effort? The lack of ability to achieve anything of significance?
>>
>> Whether a hobbyist, craftsman or professional..... woodworkers possess one
>> common trait. The ability to attempt without the crippling fear of failure.

That has got to be a difficult read! It is challenging enough trying
to understand co-planar from an English writer. Let Dostoyevsky start
discussing dovetails and mortises on the 237th page which is what you
wanted to know about and ...

[email protected] (BUB 209) wrote:

>Amen. Didn't Dostoyevsky write that
>novel, The Brothers Sawdustamazov?

I am a common woodworker. Come from a long line of them. You, on the other
hand are not even a decent hobbyist woodworker. If you were, you'd
understand what drives us very well. I had no problems with the father.
Always love in daddy's hands. If I'm viewed as the alpha male by those
around me it's simply because the quality and creativity of my work warrants
that respect. That, and the desire to foster other woodworkers skills
without downgrading their work. As far as being "non-intellectual blue
collar common man" I think you better watch your mouth. Just because a man
doesn't wear a suit and tie to work does not mean that he is non-
intellectual. I gobble up books, magazines and other sources of information
constantly. Although I cannot quote "great literary novels" or solve physic
equations, I have no desire to. I instead chose to utilize what talents God
has given me. I read about and learn what I know is valuable in my life, I
have no time to waste on what I deem as useless information. Calluses on my
hands are part of who I am, not something to show off to my friends. As far
as being "insecure" I think YOU don't have a clue whatsoever. I am a
professional carpenter and avid woodworker who makes a modest living and am
quite happy with it. The only thing that would make me insecure in life is
knowing that I have to rely on so many others to exist. If the world took a
change for the worst today and money became worthless, I know I can survive
with my skills and what I have here on my land.
Moreover, my whole life's work cannot be summed up into a couple of
files on a hard drive somewhere. What these calloused hands create will
outlive me for generations. Whether I choose a Craftsman or Powermatic tool
is irrevalent, as it is for any real woodworker. The proof is what the
craftsman can do with that tool, how it complements his/her talents. Buying
the most expensive tools -at least in your case- would be to show off how
much money you have and not to complement your talents as a craftsman, as I
suspect you really have none. If you have to question why someone would
ever build their own furniture or etc, instead of buying it, you obviously
have never tried creating anything you were proud of and enjoyed making.

Or maybe you did try....Maybe you thought you could make anything better
than that "non-intellectual blue-collar common man " if you bought the best
tools money can buy, and found out he could kick your ass with less
expensive tools. Maybe you lack imagination. Maybe you lack common sense.
Maybe you are the insecure non intellectual factor here.




"Man In The Doorway" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
What drives the common woodworker? A deeply suppressed desire to please
> the long deceased father who never gave him love as a child? The need
> to be seen as an alpha male by everyone else around him? The
> insecurities of being a non-intellectual blue-collar common man with
> calluses on his hands and feet?
> Why do hobbyist woodworkers feel the need to own the same caliber tools
> as the professionals? Is there really anything wrong with Craftsman or
> Black and Decker products? Probably not. Insecurity motivates too many
> woodworkers to waste hard earned cash on tools they have absolutely no
> use for. Why do they feel such a need to show off, when nobody really
> cares what they own? .... when nobody really cares about their
> projects? .... when anyone could go out and buy the same desk, futon,
> or humidor for half of what is costs to build one?
>
> Insecurity!
>

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 20:09:56 GMT, Lazarus Long <[email protected]>
calmly ranted:

>On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 13:44:28 -0400, [email protected] (J T)
>wrote:
>>
>>JOAT
>>Eagles can soar ... but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
>
>www.wickedweasel.com

There went MY entire afternoon. Thanks a lot, Laz.


--
"Excess regulation and government spending destroy jobs and increase
unemployment. Every regulator we fire results in the creation of over
150 new jobs, enough to hire the ex-regulator, the unemployed, and
the able-bodied poor." -Michael Badnarik

VOTE LIBERTARIAN ON NOVEMBER 2, 2004 OR YOU WON'T CHANGE ANYTHING.

I don't believe ya'll are responding to someone who hasn't a clue of what
he's talking about.

Renata wrote:

> Or, if you're into "advanced" "power(?)" tools - bone knives and
> stone axes.
> [Does anyone remember the original Star Trek?]

Wasn't that "attempting to make a mnemonic memory circuit out of stone
knives and bear skins" in "City on the Edge of Forever" (geez--I can't
believe that I know things like that--get an effing _life_ why don't I) or
are you thinking of a different episode?

> Renata
>
> BTW, quite funny (the reply)!
>
> On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 10:32:03 -0600, Dave Balderstone
> <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_S.balderstone.ca> wrote:
>
>>Me like hit board with rock.
>>
>>
>>In article <[email protected]>, mel
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> What drives the intellectual analyst? An attempt to find the answer to
>>> his
>>> own flaws by attempting to identify similar traits in others? Could it
>>> be that the absence of his own paternal relationship doesn't allow him
>>> to possess the ability to correctly characterize those relationships
>>> shared by
>>> others? The insecurities of being devoid of all emotion and experience?
>>> The realization that intellect doesn't allow for an explanation to that
>>> empty void in one's soul? Why does the white-collar intellect feel so
>>> threatened
>>> by the so-called blue-collar common man? The realization that the
>>> dependency is one way? If we removed one or the other from the face of
>>> this earth who'd have a better chance of survival?
>>>
>>> Insecurity motivates the intellect to attempt to point out a level of
>>> significance for his own life. A level he lacks the ability to earn. A
>>> level that only exists in his own deeply rooted desire to measure up to
>>> the
>>> standards set by a paternal relationship that never existed. Why is it
>>> this same boy will never matured into a self sufficient man? A lack of
>>> understanding the feeling one gets from seeing the product of one's
>>> imagination becoming a reality through application of skill,
>>> perseverance
>>> and effort? The lack of ability to achieve anything of significance?
>>>
>>> Whether a hobbyist, craftsman or professional..... woodworkers possess
>>> one
>>> common trait. The ability to attempt without the crippling fear of
>>> failure.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"Mutt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Although I went to college and graduate school, I wasn't so sure I
> wanted to be there, but I had the ability and work ethic and was a
> good "student" so I went. It was the thing to do. In reflection, I
> would have preferred to become an electrician, plumber or finish
> carpenter rather than a lawyer. I'm not complaining, mind you, as I
> do enjoy lawyering and its still fun, but I think I'd have gotten more
> long term satisfaction running a electrical or plumbing company.
>
> It bothers me that the public/county vocational and technical schools
> (the alterantive to traditional high schools in my day) are slowly
> closing, one by one; I see the equipment auctions in the paper.
> Private trade schools exist, but are few and far between and not
> everyone has the tuition money. We need to turn around this tendency.
>
> Mutt.

i have this discussion with my wife frequently. she teaches 7th & 8th
grades. it's really the nea and school district bureaucracy, which
apparently is goaled on how many kids get accepted to college. if that's the
goal, it's no wonder that they don't have vo-tech anymore, since that is
seen as failing for a school.

"Prometheus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>> ROFL! You mean like all those kids that go to school for business or
> liberal arts? Even a science degree doesn't always mean much- I have
> a friend who got his degree in comp. science from the University of
> Wisconsin Madison, and he's been selling TVs at a Best Buy for the
> past several years...

When I enlisted in USN in 1955, green as grass farm kid, I wanted to be a
"Driver" in the Seabees, but they stuck me in Electronics Tech school. When
I questioned this, I was informed that I had good math & mechanical scores
on my basic tests, and these qualities were needed to be an ET. Left an E5,
and I did support my family decently for 27yr. as a field tech for NCR Corp.
working on large scale EDP systems. To have a "blow-off" valve for the
stress from that, went back into the Naval Reserve and cross-rated to
Equipment Operator in the Seabees. I loved it, had a "feel" for it and still
do like heavy equipment. No college, just a long "life experience". It also
gave me the opening into driving truck when I couldn't take the tech life
any more.

2nd example:

In the '60's, my BIL(wife's youngest brother) left USN, did college in
Phoenix on GI Bill as a business major. When he graduated, best job he could
get was managing a 7-11. Ended up joining USAF(fiancé was a military brat,
convinced him to do it), became a C-130 navigator. Retired a few years back
as a Lt. Colonel, having earned a couple more degrees under USAF programs.
He now teaches part time @ Letourneau & another college in Longview, TX, and
is a full time Baptist Minister.

--
Nahmie
The law of intelligent tinkering: save all the parts.

Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
> http://www.crscientific.com/glassretort.html

No, this one
http://www.kleinbottle.com/
pick the size you need.
Joe

In article <[email protected]>,
Renata <[email protected]> wrote:
>Can't recall exactly either. So, I guess we'll have to wait until the
>DVD set of the original episodes comes out in the next few months.

"Stone knives and bear skins" is accurate; the rest of the quote is
close, but not exact. there are a number of (minor) variations of the quote
cited on-line -- differing only in the wording between 'circuit' and 'stone'.
The form that agrees with my recollection is:
"I am endeavoring, ma'am,
to construct a mnemonic memory circuit
using stone knives and bearskins."


Incidentally, "The City on the Edge of Forever" was written by Harlan Ellison.


>Renata
>
>On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:24:30 -0400, "J. Clarke"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Renata wrote:
>>
>>> Or, if you're into "advanced" "power(?)" tools - bone knives and
>>> stone axes.
>>> [Does anyone remember the original Star Trek?]
>>
>>Wasn't that "attempting to make a mnemonic memory circuit out of stone
>>knives and bear skins" in "City on the Edge of Forever" (geez--I can't
>>believe that I know things like that--get an effing _life_ why don't I) or
>>are you thinking of a different episode?
>>
>>> Renata
>>>
>>> BTW, quite funny (the reply)!
>>>
>

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 10:32:03 -0600, Dave Balderstone
<dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_S.balderstone.ca> wrote:

>Me like hit board with rock.
>
Dave - you owe me for a new bottle of screen cleaner!

Beautiful
Priceless
Love it!!!

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS USA

http://www.crscientific.com/glassretort.html

Joe Gorman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
> > http://www.crscientific.com/glassretort.html
>
> No, this one
> http://www.kleinbottle.com/
> pick the size you need.
> Joe

With mine you can make wood alcohol, with yours you can drink it...

--

FF

On 24 Oct 2004 03:24:59 -0700, "Man In The Doorway"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>What drives the common woodworker? A deeply suppressed desire to please
>the long deceased father who never gave him love as a child? The need
>to be seen as an alpha male by everyone else around him? The
>insecurities of being a non-intellectual blue-collar common man with
>calluses on his hands and feet?
>
>Why do hobbyist woodworkers feel the need to own the same caliber tools
>as the professionals? Is there really anything wrong with Craftsman or
>Black and Decker products? Probably not. Insecurity motivates too many
>woodworkers to waste hard earned cash on tools they have absolutely no
>use for. Why do they feel such a need to show off, when nobody really
>cares what they own? .... when nobody really cares about their
>projects? .... when anyone could go out and buy the same desk, futon,
>or humidor for half of what is costs to build one?


Buying expensive <whatever> has nothing to do with woodworking
per se. It's a separate issue altogether, one that cuts across
almost all hobbies/sports in the US (and probably other countries
as well).
.

> Why do hobbyist woodworkers feel the need to own the same caliber tools
> as the professionals? Is there really anything wrong with Craftsman or
> Black and Decker products? Probably not. Insecurity motivates too many
> woodworkers to waste hard earned cash on tools they have absolutely no
> use for. Why do they feel such a need to show off, when nobody really
> cares what they own? .... when nobody really cares about their
> projects? .... when anyone could go out and buy the same desk, futon,
> or humidor for half of what is costs to build one?

I've owned enough Black and Decker power tools to never buy another one.
They don't last, even under hobby use. (I won't buy any more Craftsman
power tools, either, because they always seem to have non-standard sized
accessories.) I'm going to try it the other way for awhile and see how it
goes. So far my Porter Cable and DeWalt tools are doing the job, but it's
too early to pass judgement on them.

I think it's ignorance, not insecurity that drives me to buy tools I don't
have a use for. I start out thinking I'll use them, find out that they
don't do the job I'd hope they'd do, and then they languish.

As for the projects, I make what I can't buy (i.e. custom jobs), or can't
afford to buy. Even after paying for the tools and wood, for large scale
items it's definitely cheaper to make than to buy (factoring out the time
cost, of course). What I make fits, and I can service it myself if it needs
fixing or changing.

- Owen -


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.775 / Virus Database: 522 - Release Date: 10/8/2004

"Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message

: One of the surgeons who did my latest hip replacement is a top amateur.
: When I first went to his office they parked me in a small conference room
: for a while. Room contained a really well constructed conference table
: which looked custom built. By the time he showed up I was on my hands an
: knees under the table looking at the joinery. He joined me to point out
: some of the problems he'd had and how he'd solved them. Right then I knew
I
: had the right guy to do the hip.
:
: LD

The downside of the hip surgery was the 4 Bessey clamps holding the incision
together while the Tightbond cured.
-Brian

I see the troll "Man In The Doorway" aka "Dump In The Doorway" is
back from a several year hiatus. You should have stayed away. I'll
respond anyway.



On 24 Oct 2004 03:24:59 -0700, "Man In The Doorway"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>What drives the common woodworker? A deeply suppressed desire to please
>the long deceased father who never gave him love as a child? The need
>to be seen as an alpha male by everyone else around him? The
>insecurities of being a non-intellectual blue-collar common man with
>calluses on his hands and feet?

None of that. I think we just like to make things.

>
>Why do hobbyist woodworkers feel the need to own the same caliber tools
>as the professionals? Is there really anything wrong with Craftsman or
>Black and Decker products? Probably not. Insecurity motivates too many
>woodworkers to waste hard earned cash on tools they have absolutely no
>use for.

When I buy tools I expect them to work well, for as long as I care to
own them. B&D and Craftsman usually don't fit those requirements.
I've had several Craftsman power tools go up in smoke during use.

>Why do they feel such a need to show off, when nobody really
>cares what they own? .... when nobody really cares about their
>projects? .... when anyone could go out and buy the same desk, futon,
>or humidor for half of what is costs to build one?

Who cares what others think? I build for my satisfaction. And to
have things that fit my particular need/use or are simply not built
commercially because a market for such a thing is too small for any
manufacturer to build one.

On 24 Oct 2004 03:24:59 -0700, "Man In The Doorway"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>What drives the common woodworker?

A sordid and shameful fetish for wearing checked shirts.

> The
>insecurities of being a non-intellectual blue-collar common man with
>calluses on his hands and feet?

Don't miss out my knuckle callouses ! I spent years dragging them on
the ground to get those.

My local dealer in fine woodworking tools is (deliberately) sandwiched
between two hospitals and the street of the violin restorers. The
owner was a doctor, a great many of the clients are surgeons. Look at
any group of really top-end amateur cabinetmakers and you'll find at
least one surgeon in there.

--
Smert' spamionam

"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:HWVfd.323718$3l3.264867@attbi_s03...
>
> "Dave Balderstone" <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_S.balderstone.ca> wrote in message
> news:271020041647386689%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_S.balderstone.ca...
>> In article <[email protected]>, Sam
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > B.T.W., what is the best rock to use,in
>> > terms of weight,size,density,texture, for banging air dried hardwoods?
>> > Do I need different ones for softwoods? basics?
>>
>> Me use big rock.
>
> My rock is bigger than your rock.
>
>
>


Is this what you're looking for??
http://www.highwire-therollingstones.de/images/wood-rock.jpg

Larry
--
Lawrence L'Hote
Columbia, MO
http://home.mchsi.com/~larrylhote

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:00:02 +0100, bugbear
<bugbear@trim_papermule_trim.co.uk> wrote:

>Lazarus Long wrote:
>
>>
>> www.wickedweasel.com
>
>You have to admire the commercaial acumen that can sell
>so little lycra for so much money,
>
>Or you might admire something else at that site :-)
>
> BugBear

Yeah, noticed both points. Big bux for not so much material.

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 13:44:28 -0400, [email protected] (J T)
wrote:


>
>JOAT
>Eagles can soar ... but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

www.wickedweasel.com

> >What drives the common woodworker?
>
> What drives a troll?
>
> >Insecurity!
>
> Probably.
>
> Barry


Rightious.

Alex

On 24 Oct 2004 12:23:03 GMT, [email protected] (BUB 209) wrote:

>Amen. Didn't Dostoyevsky write that
>novel, The Brothers Sawdustamazov?

That were Dustoyevsky.


Regards,
Tom.

"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

Can't recall exactly either. So, I guess we'll have to wait until the
DVD set of the original episodes comes out in the next few months.

Renata

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:24:30 -0400, "J. Clarke"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Renata wrote:
>
>> Or, if you're into "advanced" "power(?)" tools - bone knives and
>> stone axes.
>> [Does anyone remember the original Star Trek?]
>
>Wasn't that "attempting to make a mnemonic memory circuit out of stone
>knives and bear skins" in "City on the Edge of Forever" (geez--I can't
>believe that I know things like that--get an effing _life_ why don't I) or
>are you thinking of a different episode?
>
>> Renata
>>
>> BTW, quite funny (the reply)!
>>

"Man In The Doorway"
> What drives the common woodworker? A deeply suppressed desire to please
> the long deceased father who never gave him love as a child? The need
> to be seen as an alpha male by everyone else around him? The
> insecurities of being a non-intellectual blue-collar common man with
> calluses on his hands and feet?
> Why do hobbyist woodworkers feel the need to own the same caliber tools
> as the professionals? Is there really anything wrong with Craftsman or
> Black and Decker products? Probably not. Insecurity motivates too many
> woodworkers to waste hard earned cash on tools they have absolutely no
> use for. Why do they feel such a need to show off, when nobody really
> cares what they own? .... when nobody really cares about their
> projects? .... when anyone could go out and buy the same desk, futon,
> or humidor for half of what is costs to build one?
> Insecurity!
>

What a load of crap. Tripe indeed. Personally I feel perfectly secure and I LOVE
the beauty of classical woodworking and the classical results. What the hell is
your problem??? Because, to quote my ever lovin' Mother:

"you're lookin' in a mirror"

Alex

"Cherokee-LTD" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> "Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>: One of the surgeons who did my latest hip replacement is a top
>: amateur. When I first went to his office they parked me in a small
>: conference room for a while. Room contained a really well constructed
>: conference table which looked custom built. By the time he showed up
>: I was on my hands an knees under the table looking at the joinery. He
>: joined me to point out some of the problems he'd had and how he'd
>: solved them. Right then I knew
> I
>: had the right guy to do the hip.
>:
>: LD
>
> The downside of the hip surgery was the 4 Bessey clamps holding the
> incision together while the Tightbond cured.
> -Brian
>

Hey, it worked and I got to keep the clamps! Now as long as the Tightbond
holds ...

LD
>
>

>Insecurity!

...of running out of clamps.

"Man In The Doorway" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> What drives the common woodworker? A deeply suppressed desire to please
> the long deceased father who never gave him love as a child? The need
> to be seen as an alpha male by everyone else around him? The
> insecurities of being a non-intellectual blue-collar common man with
> calluses on his hands and feet?

If you were a wood worker you would not have to post this question.

>
> Why do hobbyist woodworkers feel the need to own the same caliber tools
> as the professionals? Is there really anything wrong with Craftsman or
> Black and Decker products? Probably not. Insecurity motivates too many
> woodworkers to waste hard earned cash on tools they have absolutely no
> use for. Why do they feel such a need to show off, when nobody really
> cares what they own? .... when nobody really cares about their
> projects? .... when anyone could go out and buy the same desk, futon,
> or humidor for half of what is costs to build one?
>
> Insecurity!

What drives a Dill Weed to post abrasive posts like yours?

Insecurity.

Andy wrote:

I enjoyed reading your reply to this OP. and this:

"In fact, there isn't a house on this block in which we haven't contributed
some kind of woodworking."

reminded me of one of my older woodworking buddies: he and a neighbor had
been admiring a set of lawn chairs that another neighbor had purchased,
decided they would both like lawn chairs like that. They were prone to
helping each other and everyone else in the neighborhood with woodworking
projects up to and including the occasional garage and playing practical
jokes on each other, too.

The original pair took one of the much admired chairs one night, took it
all apart, made a pattern, put the chair back together, put it back where
it belonged, and then worked together to make several copies over several
weekends. The chairs began appearing on lawns all over the neighborhood.

Didn't take long for the original chair owner to put 2 + 2 together - that
one of his chairs must have been swiped, pulled apart, copied, and
replaced. "Which one did you copy?" he asked. "The one that doesn't fall
apart next summer" was the reply. Naturally, the original pair took the
other chair apart and put it back together again, too, it won't fall apart
next year either.

That's what most woodworkers are like.
Josie

> Is there a difference? You bet. Craftsman and B&D are a whole lot
> more expensive! I started in on a big project calling for 14 sheets
> of baltic bich plywood. After about 4 sheets my trusty 3 year old B&D
> sander, for which I had paid the princely sum of about $25, gave up
> the ghost. Ran down to the local tool peddler and bought another one.
> Hmm, price had gone up to $30. After 7 or 8 more sheets this one
> began to smell like roasting coffee beans (good if it's coffee, bad if
> it's an electric motor) and quit. Back down to the tool peddler where
> the kind salesman took pity on me: "Kid, do yourself a favor. Plunk
> down the money for this Makita while it's on sale. I'll even knock
> another 10% off because I feel sorry for you. Guaranteed, I won't be
> seeing you back here again." Well, he was wrong. He has seen me back
> there plenty, but never for another sander! All told, the Makita cost
> me about $135 ($80 on sale plus $25 and $30 for the two dead B&Ds)
> plus untold hours of frustration and self-damnation for being a
> cheapskate. Buying decent tools is kind of like getting a
> vaccination: it stings a little at first but saves a lot of pain
> later.
> Ian


There's some realistically good advice. I appreciate that. In my adult ed. class there are
two very old Milwaukee hand drills with metal cases (outer body shells) still working,
and an old Skil drill still working, and a burned out, quite non-working Black and Decker.
My Old Skil drill is about 12 years old, in perfect condition but it hasn't been used much.

Alex

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 20:09:56 GMT, Lazarus Long <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 13:44:28 -0400, [email protected] (J T)
>wrote:
>
>
>>
>>JOAT
>>Eagles can soar ... but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
>
>www.wickedweasel.com


you're incorrigible....


that took up an hour of my afternoon....

You two should get together... and make some comparisons.

Alex