List:
A recent poster (Charlie S mebbe?) talked about the difference between
saws when you "pop the lid."
I've only seen one review--last years FWW Tools and Shops comparison of
midline saws--that did just that, other than a single tool review.
Is there an article online that does that with cabinet saws?
There's PLENTY of opinion here, of course, amounting to "Everyone is
happy with the saw they own now . . "
I'm after somethign along the lines of FWWs midline saw comparison, only
for the heavy iron.
Charles Krug states:
> recent poster (Charlie S mebbe?) talked about the difference between
>saws when you "pop the lid."
>
>I've only seen one review--last years FWW Tools and Shops comparison of
>midline saws--that did just that, other than a single tool review.
>
>Is there an article online that does that with cabinet saws?
>
>There's PLENTY of opinion here, of course, amounting to "Everyone is
>happy with the saw they own now . . "
>
>I'm after somethign along the lines of FWWs midline saw comparison, only
>for the heavy iron.
>
I'd love to do that one. Got the shop crane all set up and waiting, but it
would have to be one at a time, as the shop itself isn't large enough for the
dozen or so saws that would qualify. Lessee: Jet; Delta; Powermatic; Grizzly;
Woodtek; Grizzly; General; Bridgewood; Craftsman; Shop Fox; Sunhill; Dayton and
a few less familiar names I'm sure are still out there in one incarnation or
another.
A huge (and expensive) amount of work, so don't look for it soon.
Charlie Self
"A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never
learned to walk forward." Franklin D. Roosevelt, radio address, Oct. 26, 1939
"U-CDK_CHARLES\Charles" <"Charles Krug"@cdksystems.com> wrote in message
news:Yr%Zc.18$Cr5.3@trndny08...
> On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 15:21:34 -0700, Joel Corwith <[email protected]>
wrote:
> >
> > Find a place with a Powermatic and jet or delta. Compare the
> > trunnions between the 2. Powermatic and General have "massive
> > cast-iron trunnions" compared to what I consider Unisaw knock-offs.
> > Yes, even the Unisaw isn't what it was. I went with a General,
> > because at the time, it was the cheapest (of the big 3) if you ordered
> > it from Canada (even with the shipping!).
> >
>
> WWW in Paramus used to have Delta, Jet, and PM. Alas gone.
>
> The only local dealer, Montegue Supply (about ten miles south of
> Montegue in Branchville) only carries Delta.
>
> Moreover, neither one of them was inclined to "pop the top" on a saw so
> that I could examine said Trunions, though I suppose I'm welcome to crawl
> on the floor and look upwards.
??? I just popped the blade insert. Surely they're willing to demonstrate
how difficult it is to remove their bladeguard. The trunion is all the way
around the blade on the more expensive/beefier machines.
>
> Who sells General in N. Jersey or WAY NE PA?
Way back when General listed dealers on their website. I called the ones in
ca to find a low price, though I don't know how the dollar compares now.
Joel. phx
>
>
"Charlie Self"
> I'd love to do that one. Got the shop crane all set up and waiting, but it
> would have to be one at a time, as the shop itself isn't large enough for
> the
> dozen or so saws that would qualify.
I can arrange that and have the saws shipped to you. Of course, I'll need
your home address to make the arrangements.
Yeah, that's it, send me your home address (value $500 on the internet) and
I'll get it started. Yep, all I need is that one bit of legal information.
Oh, be sure to let me know when you'll be home so I can have the driver
personally hand you the proper papers.
Ed (who is soon to be $500 richer)
Ed Pawlowski writes:
>> I'd love to do that one. Got the shop crane all set up and waiting, but it
>> would have to be one at a time, as the shop itself isn't large enough for
>> the
>> dozen or so saws that would qualify.
>
>I can arrange that and have the saws shipped to you. Of course, I'll need
>your home address to make the arrangements.
>
>Yeah, that's it, send me your home address (value $500 on the internet) and
>I'll get it started. Yep, all I need is that one bit of legal information.
>Oh, be sure to let me know when you'll be home so I can have the driver
>personally hand you the proper papers.
>
>Ed (who is soon to be $500 richer)
ROTFLMAO!
Charlie Self
"A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never
learned to walk forward." Franklin D. Roosevelt, radio address, Oct. 26, 1939
"U-CDK_CHARLES\Charles" <"Charles Krug"@cdksystems.com> wrote in message
news:r4MZc.1716$rL5.587@trndny09...
> On 02 Sep 2004 19:06:35 GMT, Charlie Self <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >
> > I'd love to do that one. Got the shop crane all set up and waiting,
> > but it would have to be one at a time, as the shop itself isn't large
> > enough for the dozen or so saws that would qualify. Lessee: Jet;
> > Delta; Powermatic; Grizzly; Woodtek; Grizzly; General; Bridgewood;
> > Craftsman; Shop Fox; Sunhill; Dayton and a few less familiar names I'm
> > sure are still out there in one incarnation or another.
> >
>
> Well a huge DOH on my part. I found one ten minutes later.
>
> http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00042.asp
>
> Tell ya what Charlie, I bet you could find folks who'd help you with
> that. I have space for one.
>
Find a place with a Powermatic and jet or delta. Compare the trunnions
between the 2. Powermatic and General have "massive cast-iron trunnions"
compared to what I consider Unisaw knock-offs. Yes, even the Unisaw isn't
what it was. I went with a General, because at the time, it was the
cheapest (of the big 3) if you ordered it from Canada (even with the
shipping!).
Joel. phx
[email protected] (Charlie Self) wrote in
news:[email protected]:
<snip>
>>
>>I'm after somethign along the lines of FWWs midline saw comparison,
>>only for the heavy iron.
>>
>
> I'd love to do that one. Got the shop crane all set up and waiting,
> but it would have to be one at a time, as the shop itself isn't large
> enough for the dozen or so saws that would qualify. Lessee: Jet;
> Delta; Powermatic; Grizzly; Woodtek; Grizzly; General; Bridgewood;
> Craftsman; Shop Fox; Sunhill; Dayton and a few less familiar names I'm
> sure are still out there in one incarnation or another.
>
> A huge (and expensive) amount of work, so don't look for it soon.
>
And where does one draw the line for heavy iron on the upside? Where does
that market get segmented?
Our adult ed program just declined to install a Delta 12/14 saw offered to
them, opting for another 10" Unisaw instead.
Just curious. I've already got more tooling than I really require.
(now I'm pretty certain the woodworking gods will require an offering based
on that blasphemy...)
Patriarch
Patriarch asks:
>
>And where does one draw the line for heavy iron on the upside? Where does
>that market get segmented?
>
>Our adult ed program just declined to install a Delta 12/14 saw offered to
>them, opting for another 10" Unisaw instead.
>
Makes sense. My guess is that there probably aren't more than half a dozen
hobby woodworkers who have ever needed more than a
Unisaw/Jet/General/Powermatic/Grizzly/Shop Fox and other cabinet saw, and a
great many who don't need that. For the most part, the contractor's saw does a
great job, at a lower cost, with a shade more upkeep.
To go to 5 HP, or up to a 12" blade, is overkill. And so is the blade price.
Got the the CMT USA site and compare the prices of 10", 12" and 14" blades--and
compare the selection. Well, shoot, they don't have prices there.
Amana's 4 year old price list (only one I have) shows a 10" glue line rip at
MSRP of $103.75, with a 12" version at $125.60. The 14" is over $128.
Everything on the larger saw costs more.
Charlie Self
"A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never
learned to walk forward." Franklin D. Roosevelt, radio address, Oct. 26, 1939
Keef,
> Not poo-pooing the 12/14 saw, just an observation based on
> what users have found/I have heard about.
I agree.
When I was teaching a woodworking for Women class at a local high school
last year, I got to use a 12/14 for the first time, you have to be a tall
person to be able to push wood through the blade comfortably.
P.S. I just brought home a cast iron plinth Unisaw last night from a local
prison that closed....
In article <[email protected]>,
David F. Eisan <[email protected]> wrote:
>Keef,
>
>> Not poo-pooing the 12/14 saw, just an observation based on
>> what users have found/I have heard about.
>
>I agree.
>
>When I was teaching a woodworking for Women class at a local high school
>last year, I got to use a 12/14 for the first time, you have to be a tall
>person to be able to push wood through the blade comfortably.
>
>P.S. I just brought home a cast iron plinth Unisaw last night from a local
>prison that closed....
*sigh* wrong brand. "Free the PM 66!"
Yep...the larger saw requires more "adjustments"
and more expensive blades. It also requires a more
expensive base, more expensive fence, and is more
difficult to work "close up" with the blade.
I really got lucky on my saw, but the bigger saws
have things that you don't expect, like a 1" miter
slot. That doesn't sound bad until you realize you
can not buy any of those snazzy little adapters or
jigs.
The larger saws often come with "bastard size" arbors
such as 1" or 1.25" which requires more expensive and
hard to find blades. I got lucky and found a 1" which
are "fairly" common but still scarce.
The blade is at least 6" closer to the back than a
"normal" saw. This requires some "leaning over" that
I don't care for but I'm getting used to it.
While I LOVE the saw, my preference would be a standard
Unisaw if I got a chance to find a replacement. I would
probably keep the big guy for ripping and use the Unisaw
for the "close in" work.
Parts for old Unisaws are very easily found, while parts
for the 12/14 saws don't exist for any price. The 12/14
is a big brute of a saw that is beyond most folks needs.
The term "standard" has a real meaning in table saws.
Unisaw A100 wrote:
> Charlie Self wrote:
>
>>Everything on the larger saw costs more.
>
>
> Also, and you can ask Pat Barber about this, the opening for
> the saw blade on the 12/14 is farther back (to the rear) on
> the table. Most users have a sense that they've compromised
> their center of gravity (extended their reach way more than
> what is comfortable) when using a larger saw.
>
> Not poo-pooing the 12/14 saw, just an observation based on
> what users have found/I have heard about.
>
> UA100
Charlie Self wrote:
>Everything on the larger saw costs more.
Also, and you can ask Pat Barber about this, the opening for
the saw blade on the 12/14 is farther back (to the rear) on
the table. Most users have a sense that they've compromised
their center of gravity (extended their reach way more than
what is comfortable) when using a larger saw.
Not poo-pooing the 12/14 saw, just an observation based on
what users have found/I have heard about.
UA100
On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 15:21:34 -0700, Joel Corwith <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Find a place with a Powermatic and jet or delta. Compare the
> trunnions between the 2. Powermatic and General have "massive
> cast-iron trunnions" compared to what I consider Unisaw knock-offs.
> Yes, even the Unisaw isn't what it was. I went with a General,
> because at the time, it was the cheapest (of the big 3) if you ordered
> it from Canada (even with the shipping!).
>
WWW in Paramus used to have Delta, Jet, and PM. Alas gone.
The only local dealer, Montegue Supply (about ten miles south of
Montegue in Branchville) only carries Delta.
Moreover, neither one of them was inclined to "pop the top" on a saw so
that I could examine said Trunions, though I suppose I'm welcome to crawl
on the floor and look upwards.
Who sells General in N. Jersey or WAY NE PA?
Charles Krug asks:
>Moreover, neither one of them was inclined to "pop the top" on a saw so
>that I could examine said Trunions, though I suppose I'm welcome to crawl
>on the floor and look upwards.
>
>Who sells General in N. Jersey or WAY NE PA?
Looking up is about the only way in most dealerships. Can't really blame them.
Don't know how far you are from York, PA, but try Wilke Machinery.
Charlie Self
"A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never
learned to walk forward." Franklin D. Roosevelt, radio address, Oct. 26, 1939
On 03 Sep 2004 15:01:21 GMT, Charlie Self <[email protected]>
wrote:
>>
>>Who sells General in N. Jersey or WAY NE PA?
>
> Looking up is about the only way in most dealerships. Can't really
> blame them.
>
> Don't know how far you are from York, PA, but try Wilke Machinery.
>
That's about the same distance as the nearest Grizzly showroom. Where I
may go yet and save the shipping.
On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 15:21:34 -0700, "Joel Corwith" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Powermatic and General have "massive cast-iron trunnions"
>compared to what I consider Unisaw knock-offs.
My Wadkin is similar to the Powermatic design. It's a substantial
piece of work, but if it does ever get worn, it's a lot harder to
repair and remove wear by bushing or sleeving it, compared to the
Unisaw pattern.
--
Smert' spamionam
On 02 Sep 2004 19:06:35 GMT, Charlie Self <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> I'd love to do that one. Got the shop crane all set up and waiting,
> but it would have to be one at a time, as the shop itself isn't large
> enough for the dozen or so saws that would qualify. Lessee: Jet;
> Delta; Powermatic; Grizzly; Woodtek; Grizzly; General; Bridgewood;
> Craftsman; Shop Fox; Sunhill; Dayton and a few less familiar names I'm
> sure are still out there in one incarnation or another.
>
Well a huge DOH on my part. I found one ten minutes later.
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00042.asp
Tell ya what Charlie, I bet you could find folks who'd help you with
that. I have space for one.