"Woodchuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I been watching for awhile and he never uses one? I find on my TS the
>splitter can be more of a hassle then benefit. It's just too time consuming
>to keep it set up and straight... but I still use it. For how much longer I
>don't know. Who uses it, and who doesn't, and why?
I use this.
http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/product_details.cfm?cookietest=1&offerings_id=10889&sid=AF989
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Mike Marlow" wrote in message
> > Hey Swingman
> >
> > For some reason, I'm not seeing any of your posts unless they're
included
> in
> > other people's comments. Honest - I don't have you kf'd. I just went
out
> > to Google and saw a bunch of your posts so here's a couple of comments
in
> > reply to questions or points you raised...
>
> I can't understand why? ... must be the manifestation of that paranoia of
> mine from getting old(er). ;)
>
> > Our positions are not so very far apart. Mine is that one should invest
> in
> > understanding
> > one's environment. Yours does not deny this. We both question the
> general
> > availability
> > of common sense.
>
> I am glad that you recognize that, Mike ... and I respect both your
actions
> with regard to the splitters and the reasons for that action. You've
> obviously given the issue some thought.
>
> I never once advocated that any answer to my question would necessarily be
> correct, just that honestly answering it would get at the underlying
reason
> of why folks either use, or do not use, a device like a splitter.
>
> Some folks obviously don't like to look that deep into the reasons for
what
> they do, or worse, advocate what other's do.
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 11/06/04
>
>
Hey - you made it through Earthlink this time! Something has really been
boogering up usenet for the past couple of days.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 17:00:10 -0500, Tom Watson <[email protected]>
wrote:
>You started out with turning it into a dick measuring contest
Dicks and tablesaws in the same post make me shudder.
Barry
Bought my TS about 16 years ago, and removed the splitter after about a
month or so. Felt it was more hinderance than help - and besides, Norm
never uses one!
If I see the wood closing up even slightly, I power the saw down and
put a little wedge or 10 penny on the cut side. This happens a few
times a year, but I don't use it every day like a pro.
Now, after disclosing this, I will likely get "beaned" on my next cut.
Lou
<[email protected]>, Woodchuck
<[email protected]> wrote:
> I been watching for awhile and he never uses one? I find on my TS the
> splitter can be more of a hassle then benefit. It's just too time consuming
> to keep it set up and straight... but I still use it. For how much longer I
> don't know. Who uses it, and who doesn't, and why?
>
>
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 08:42:26 -0500, "Woodchuck"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I been watching for awhile and he never uses one?
My impression was that hardly anyone in the USA used them. Here in
Europe we're beyond splitters and into riving knives.
My own saw just has several inserts. Some have splitters, some are
short ones, some are penetrating splitters with a guard on top.
--
Smert' spamionam
"Dave jackson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I TS to close width leaving final width after a light pass or two on the
>jointer. Just habit. But you're right, I've noticed burn marks on
>occasion as well. --dave
Ok, who taught you to get close with a TS and smooth up with a jointer????
"~)
My TS rips put my Jointer to shame when it comes to smoothness of cut.
Quite true. And the blade guards generally go on just before the OSHA guys
show up and off after they leave.
"Tom Watson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 08:42:26 -0500, "Woodchuck"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I been watching for awhile and he never uses one? I find on my TS the
> >splitter can be more of a hassle then benefit. It's just too time
consuming
> >to keep it set up and straight... but I still use it. For how much longer
I
> >don't know. Who uses it, and who doesn't, and why?
> >
>
>
> If you want a good deal on an unused splitter, stop by one of the pro
> shops in your area.
>
> They are likely to have a number of them sitting around gathering
> dust.
>
>
"patrick conroy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Woodchuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> >
> > I been watching for awhile and he never uses one? I find on my TS the
> > splitter can be more of a hassle then benefit.
>
> There are pop-in/pop-out ones to minimize the hassle.
>
> > don't know. Who uses it, and who doesn't, and why?
>
> You'll get some who say "I do" and some who say "Pro's don't.".
> Well, I'm not a pro. I don't have daily experience with the tools or a
slew
> of board feet under my belt. Seems to me a splitter's a little bit like a
> safety belt. Some wear 'em, some don't. Some folks have accidents with
out
> them and walk away fine.
I'm not trying to persuade for or against the use of them - like I said in
my previous posts, use 'em if you like 'em... but as a side conversation,
these kinds of things seem to take on a life of their own. Certainly, they
come about only because there really is an underlying issue (kickback), and
at some point the solution (splitters) gets introduced. Generally, if the
solution works more than it inhibits, it gains a foothold. After a while it
seems there develops a certain urban legend nature about them. Not that
they don't add value, but the degree of value tends to get exagerated and a
whole generation comes to honestly believe that work can't practically or
safely be done without them. It really does not present such a big problem
for that misunderstanding to exist, so it's not such a big deal, but that
belief is bigger than the reality of the matter. What tends to be forgotten
is that the accident rate associated with these things is not dramatically
different before and after the acceptance of them. But... since they look
like such a good idea what quickly follows is the belief that before the
things came about, everyone was killing and maiming themselves in large
numbers. It does do something of a disservice though if that belief is
perpetuated. It creates a false security in the safety device and can
(note... *can*) result in not learning the more important cause and effect
issues associated with using the tool.
>
> But there just might come the day, where you're thankful it was there.
> Personally, I need most of my appendages to earn a living. :)
>
> How about this line of thought: The "cheapening" of power tools has been
> hashed to death here. In an age where bean counters hold court on par with
> the lawyers, dontcha think the manufacturers would drop them if they felt
> they were worthless?
>
>
Not completely. Lots of things are out there today only because of the
public's perceived value. Remember that a big part of manufacturing a
consumer product is producing what the consumer wants. Not that there is
always any good reason for it.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:14:35 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>...Perfect...
Thank You!
Regards,
Tom.
"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston
Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> I never saw Swingman's original response, so I'll tag on Tom's to address
> Swingman. That's just an absolutely foolish position and one that speaks
to
> open mouth before engaging brain. It is in fact the blind reliance on
what
> is purported to be a safety device rather than relying on proper safety.
> Your implied logic Swingman is likely what causes the near accidents that
> you credit the "safety" devices for having prevented becoming full fledged
> disasters. A little practical thought and you can completely avoid most
of
> what you spread as fear-uncertainty-and doubt when it comes to proper and
> safe use of tools.
>
> In short - when I allowed my kids to use the power tools it was only after
> they had worked for a long time with me in the shop. In the beginning
they
> were just helping hold things or were just sort of around the shop. They
> began their indoctrination process by seeing the way things are safely
done,
> coupled with a bit of explanation. As they showed interest in using tools
> they received a lot more instruction. They also received a lot of
> demonstrations, and a lot of help. Lo and behold in no time at all they
> were pretty well qualified to use my tools on their own at early ages. It
> didn't take a lot of time and effort to get them to this point and they
> actually understand the tools. That makes for a far more educated and
> qualified operator than one who relies on scare tactics.
>
> Know your tools, not just marketing and newsgroup claims.
> --
>
> -Mike-
> [email protected]
>
>
Man - that had a biting tone. Sorry about that - I really did not intend
such a harsh sound.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
You do, however, have to be willing to stand aside and let the wood go (or
have a knee-kick ON/OFF) if you go without. No piece of wood is worth a
reach. Been my philosophy on all machines.
Can probably count on my ten fingers the number of times I've had to do that
in over thirty years, and most of them were with true poplar or elm, stuff
that just doesn't behave. I bandsaw that stuff now.
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've never used a splitter in 30 some years. I have at times, had to keep
> pieces from pinching back together and a splitter would have done that
> without my efforts, but those have been relatively few. Some wood can
have
> a mind of its own and try to close back up after the cut, but it's
> manageable in other ways besides a splitter.
Our elms are known for their interlocked grain. They shimmer with
transparent finishes, but they're almost impossible to split (wheel hubs),
and unpredictable on rips through quartered figure.
"Andy Dingley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:26:39 -0500, "George" <george@least> wrote:
>
> >most of them were with true poplar or elm, stuff
> >that just doesn't behave. I bandsaw that stuff now.
>
> Elm doesn't behave ? I've not much experience with it (thanks to
> Dutch elm disease), but our UK elms seem fairly benign.
>
> Do you ever work larch ? Now big rips in larch are where I find the
> stuff hotmelt-gluing itself onto the splitter. I'm just glad it's not
> the blade.
>
I can only answer for my three kids and the hundreds at our school, where
there is no splitter on the 50's Unisaw. Nope. But middle school shop
classes don't use it.
The real answer is never let a kid use a tool unsupervised, until you're
convinced they're capable. They convince you at length, not at a session.
There are some who were never allowed use of the tablesaw, because they
couldn't pass the first safety test, that of reaching beyond the blade
without leaning.
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> So, answer the question. Would you insist that your own kid use a
splitter
> and blade guard until they were old enough to make up their own mind?
>
> > The point, which you have so deftly ignored, is that it is your brain
> > that must be your primary safety device.
>
> Quite the contrary ... considering some using tools these days, ignoring
any
> safety devices is arguably the product of a disengaged brain. You forget
> what century you're in? ... there ain't no more shop classes in junior
high
> school.
Tom Watson <[email protected]> wrote:
>... he should do all of his cutting this way
>until he is used to how the saw and the wood react.
>
>When he gets used to cutting, his fear will leave him - but his
>respect should remain.
Also, it's a good idea to learn to use the tablesaw drunk. That way,
when you're sober, it feels no more dangerous than watching
television.
Ken Muldrew
[email protected]
(remove all letters after y in the alphabet)
"Battleax" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> None of the table saws in my shop have splitters, I've never seen them
> used
> in any cabinet shop.
> In all my 37 years of cabinet making I've never found a use for splitters.
I kinda find that hard to believe.
Well it did take me about 25 years to realize the value of a splitter.
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 13:00:52 -0500, Tom Watson <[email protected]>
wrote:
>http://www.febeltex.be/persfoto's/crackjac.jpg
At least the crotch area is covered.
Barry
Tom,
great post! The point about keeping the wood ON the saw and AGAINST
the fence is one of the main reasons I remove the splitter most of the
time. I get much more leverage by having the blade just above the
workpiece so I can have a push block that rides over the blade if
necessary for narrow cuts rather than struggling with how to push
through that last little bit of projectile that got hung up between
the blade and the fence. For wider cuts I use roller hold downs that
are anti-kickback devices and these work well if the blade isn't
lifting the workpiece and twisting it out of the grip of the roller,
again, the long push block helps this situation. Both of these
situations are worsened by the commercial splitter/blade guard.
If wood is going to close down it will start closing down immediately
after it leaves the blade and is going to pinch the blade anyway even
with a splitter. The worse case scenario is if the wood closes down
enough to hit the leading edge of the splitter that is several inches
behind the blade. It seems to me that a splitter, to be useful on the
gnarly wood that tends to close down quickly, is only useful if the
splitter is slightly less than the thickness of the cut AND is
positioned immediately behind the blade. A splitter that meets this
requirement would need to be repositioned based on the blade height -
a very complicated mechanism and one that is either unreliable or very
expensive.
I do use the splitter/guard for some cuts. When I am cutting wood
that is splintery (like plywood) or lots of dust, like MDF, then I use
the guard to keep the little 'bits' from flying all over the place. I
also use it when I am ripping long boards (where I am positioned
relatively far from the saw) simply because I am not comfortable to
have the blade running 'free' when I am not near enough to prevent
something from striking it - I'll admit that this might be less
logical but it reduces my fear, which, as you aptly point out, is
debilitating. But, again, I am using it as a guard, not a splitter in
this case.
For me, the best safety devices, besides the brain, are the
anti-kickback rollers, the push block, and featherboard.
No matter how you slice it (no excuse for the pun) a TS is a dangerous
piece of equipment that requires careful and knowledgeable practices
to use it safely. Reliance on safety devices that don't improve
safety but provide over confidence is more risky IMO.
TWS
"Woodchuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> I been watching for awhile and he never uses one? I find on my TS the
> splitter can be more of a hassle then benefit.
There are pop-in/pop-out ones to minimize the hassle.
> don't know. Who uses it, and who doesn't, and why?
You'll get some who say "I do" and some who say "Pro's don't.".
Well, I'm not a pro. I don't have daily experience with the tools or a slew
of board feet under my belt. Seems to me a splitter's a little bit like a
safety belt. Some wear 'em, some don't. Some folks have accidents with out
them and walk away fine.
But there just might come the day, where you're thankful it was there.
Personally, I need most of my appendages to earn a living. :)
How about this line of thought: The "cheapening" of power tools has been
hashed to death here. In an age where bean counters hold court on par with
the lawyers, dontcha think the manufacturers would drop them if they felt
they were worthless?
"Battleax" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Battleax" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >
> > > None of the table saws in my shop have splitters, I've never seen them
> > > used
> > > in any cabinet shop.
> > > In all my 37 years of cabinet making I've never found a use for
> splitters.
> >
> >
> > I kinda find that hard to believe.
> > Well it did take me about 25 years to realize the value of a splitter.
> >
> >
>
> If a board I'm ripping starts to close up after the blade I lift it straight
> up and toss it into my kindling pile.
> It will warp again regardless of how straight you get it with sawing.
That's not exactly the point. When it closes up it could kick back.
The goal of the splitter isn't to save the board, it's to save your
body.
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:35:06 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>"Woodchuck" wrote in message
>> I been watching for awhile and he never uses one? I find on my TS the
>> splitter can be more of a hassle then benefit. It's just too time
>consuming
>> to keep it set up and straight... but I still use it. For how much longer
>I
>> don't know. Who uses it, and who doesn't, and why?
>
>It is apparently a well known fact that "pro shops" don't use splitters, and
>culturally speaking, we are convinced that all pro's have big pricks and
>large cojones, therefore yours will somehow gain "pro" stature if you also
>refrain.
>
>What's missing is the fact that most "pro's" learn early the necessity to
>physically control the wood throughout the cut, something a weekend
>woodworker may not learn, except the hard way.
I've probably been in a couple of dozen shops over the last thirty
five plus years that would be considered pro shops and used a ten inch
tablesaw somewhere in their operations. In some cases, like mine, it
was the primary sawing tool in the shop and in the others it was a
much used secondary tool because those shops used sliders as the
primary.
I honestly can't recall any instances where the guard and splitter
that came with the saw were in use. In those cases where a guard was
used, it was usually the type that provided dust extraction,
particularly in shops where a lot of MDF was cut; and it was
positioned so that the blade could be clearly seen during the cut. In
other words, it was not acting as a guard.
I can't speak to the size of their pricks and this is surely a topic
for another thread - if not another newsgroup.
They were/are, without exception, deca-digital wooddorkers.
The reasoning behind throwing away the OEM splitter/guard is almost
always the same:
1. The OEM splitter/guards are poorly designed rubbish.
2. The operator wants to see the blade and the area immediately
before and after the cut, so that he can react to what happens during
the cutting operation.
3. The operator wants to deal with the wood, the blade and the
fence - without other variables being introduced by the alleged safety
devices.
That said, there are a number of caveats that must be explored in
order to account for these pros continued ability to count to ten
without recourse to their pedestrial appendages.
Stock Preparation:
When I worked as a carpenter I would often see a future organ donor
try to feed a twisted, bowed, crooked, waney-edged piece of material
into the angry part of a poorly set up, underpowered, dull-bladed
widow maker of a machine that could only be called a tablesaw by
analogy.
These were the sorts who eventually wound up trying, ineffectively,
to clear nasal blockages with a phantom limblet.
The pro would avail himself of those tools which would render the
stock into a condition where it is fit to be fed into the saw, ie:
with a flat face produced on the jointer or careful use of the
thicknesser; with the faces planed parallel, the edges trued straight
on the jointer, and the twist eliminated or ameliorated via jointer or
cross cutting of the stock to eliminate the worst of the twist.
Anything less than this is Sawicide.
Artful Dodging And The Careful Management Of Fear:
"Fear is the mindkiller. Fear is the little death that brings total
obliteration." Frank Herbert.
The pro who seeks to protect his continued ability to disseminate
inseminating solutions never stands in a direct line with a potential
projectile. He stands to the side and addresses his saw with respect,
but without fear. Standing in the possible path of a piece of ash
that might be propelled towards the famous Italian Airline
(Gen-Italia) at a speed governed by a c. 3450 rpm, 3hp motor is an
exercise in Darwinism.
Fear and Foolish Inattention are what gets most infrequent users of
the tablesaw injured. Let us now explore Fear - Foolish Inattention
comes later.
I've seen them push the wood into the sawblade without sufficient
downward pressure on the table or sideward pressure on the fence -
this is the greatest cause of kickback. They proceed in a tentative
fashion and their fear is the cause of the feared result. It is as
though they do not want to commit the aligned force of their hand and
body pressure towards the spinning amputator - and this is good - to a
degree.
The solution is to be a student of the Bee Sting Theory.
The Bee Sting Theory states that: "One should never push on a piece
of material in such a way that - if a bee stung them on the ass - any
body part would naturally move towards the amputator."
The downward force is applied well prior to the intersection of the
blade and the material, as is the side pressure; and this pressure is
always applied in such a way and at such an angle to the amputator as
to make the body parts unavailable to the amputator under conditions
of surprisingly stressful events, ie: bee stings, earthquakes, naked
women springing quickly and unexpectedly into the field of vision,
etc.
Ahem...
Although the pro may adjust the height of the blade to project above
the material to various heights, in order to gain the advantages of
blade/tooth geometry - I would not recommend that an inexperienced
user do this. This user should only allow the teeth to barely stand
proud of the material - and he should do all of his cutting this way
until he is used to how the saw and the wood react.
When he gets used to cutting, his fear will leave him - but his
respect should remain.
Useful Appliances And Their Result In Use:
Although most small shop pros may eschew the use of the OEM alleged
safety devices, this is not to say that they use no safety devices at
all.
To whit:
They often make use of hold downs and feather boards. It is always
the case when I am attempting a glue line rip and is most often the
case in repetitive rips that pros use hold downs and featherboards.
These devices provide safety in the regard of appropriate pressure in
the appropriate direction, as well as providing a superior cut. They
also do this for you without occluding your line of sight to the blade
- a great benefit.
Deca-digital professionals also make constant use of push sticks. My
personal favorite is a 1/2" thk simulacrum of a female leg (magic
markered in replication of mesh stockings is optional in most shops,
but required in mine), with a spiked heel at the end to encompass the
woody material - ymmv on this.
On stock of such width as to make use of the GamStick (tm TW)
impractical, I resort to the use of an icepick. This is an old
patternmaker's trick but provides enhanced enjoyment to Kubrick fans.
Foolish Inattention:
This category begins with sawblades. Not to put too fine a point on
it, but - combo blades suck.
If you are going to do much ripping on the tablesaw you need to get a
ripping blade. Some ripping blades will give a rough cut but a good
glue line ripping blade will provide a wonderfully smooth surface,
suitable for glue ups without further treatment on the jointer.
Using the wrong blade for ripping results in a kerf that is too small
to assist in the prevention of kickback.
You must also be attentive to your saw setup. The blade must be
parallel to the fence. The blade should not toe in or out.
The blade must be parallel to the fence.
The blade must be parallel to the fence.
The blade must be parallel to the fence.
The blade must be parallel to the fence.
The blade must be parallel to the fence.
Can I get an Amen!
Properly prepared stock in a saw that is properly set up, with a blade
of the proper type, operated by someone who respects the saw without
fearing it, will result in safe cuts - with the following provisos:
Understand Your Stock:
During the process of stock preparation you should have discovered a
good deal about the properties of your material. You should be able
to determine the grain direction along the proposed cut line and you
should be able to see if you are dealing with reaction wood, rather
than mild stock.
I like to feed wood into the ripping blade with the same attention to
grain direction and slope as I would use with when feeding the
thicknesser or the jointer.
By being mindful of this you can eliminate the production of pointy-
sticks-headed-towards-your-nether-regions to a great degree, as well
as keeping at bay the explosive surprises contained within some highly
figured and interlocked-grained woods.
Don't Be Stupid:
If a piece breaks off between the blade and the fence - shut the saw
down.
If the blade starts to bind on your material, even though you have
taken all of the above precautions - shut the saw down.
If someone walks into your shop while you are ripping, because you
foolishly neglected to lock the doors - shut the saw down.
If the song on the 400hp shop music device is sounding so good to you
that you start to get Happy Feet - shut the saw down.
If you decide that you would like to have the first Pina Colada of the
day in the middle of a rip - shut the saw down.
Remember - Be Like The Pros
Because Pro-made
Is Better Than
Ho-made
and much safer.
Regards,
Tom.
Thomas J. Watson - Cabinetmaker, ret.
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
I never use guards on my tablesaw but I always use a splitter. The one I use
I made myself and does not have anti kick back teeth. The only thing I care
about is that the wood on the backside of the blade does not move over and
touch the blade. So my splitter is made from 1/8 inch brass stock 3/4 inch
wide and two inches high. It attaches to the single stud behind the blade. I
do have to use a wrench to get it out for dado cuts but I have never had a
kick back with this splitter.
max
> I been watching for awhile and he never uses one? I find on my TS the
> splitter can be more of a hassle then benefit. It's just too time consuming
> to keep it set up and straight... but I still use it. For how much longer I
> don't know. Who uses it, and who doesn't, and why?
>
>
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:Mi9od.1706
> >
> > I never saw Swingman's original response, so I'll tag on Tom's to
address
> > Swingman. That's just an absolutely foolish position and one that
speaks
> > to
> > open mouth before engaging brain. It is in fact the blind reliance on
> > what
> > is purported to be a safety device rather than relying on proper safety.
>
> Did anyone say rely on a safety devise, It saves your butt when you make
a
> mistake "most of the time". Anyway, while your brain is the best safety
> devise, the safety devise on your tools are more reliable than depending
on
> your brain all the time. We as human beings can become side tracked or
> loose attention. Safety devices regardless of how lame they may be do not
> loose track of what is going on.
>
>
>
It is what comes out here. Look how often you see phrases like "if you
don't use a splitter you are a fool", or "surely you'll end up with stubs
for fingers if you don't use the super deluxe gadget-device". The advocates
of devices or death clearly see it as the ultimate safety device. My point
is only that your own common sense and knowledge is the ultimate safety
device, and that allowing yourself to feel that you're doing the right thing
just by having that gadget in place is sheer folly. As I mentioned - you
hear more complaints of accidents and near accidents from those with all of
the gadgets than from those without them. There is a greater harm in simply
accepting everything that is posted in a newsgroup or is marketed by a
company and taking refuge in that than there is in what might otherwise seem
to be a more dangerous approach that is guided by knowledge and practiced
awareness.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
> My impression was that hardly anyone in the USA used them.
I don't think that's true ... I know a number of "pro" woodworkers/cabinet
makers of many years experience and it may surprise you to find that a good
many of them use splitters on their cabinet saws in the shop. And just about
everyone I know with a cabinet saw in their garage/ship uses one.
Where I rarely see a splitter is on a contractor's saws on a job site.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Dave jackson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>I TS to close width leaving final width after a light pass or two on the
>>jointer. Just habit. But you're right, I've noticed burn marks on
>>occasion as well. --dave
>
> Ok, who taught you to get close with a TS and smooth up with a jointer????
> "~)
>
> My TS rips put my Jointer to shame when it comes to smoothness of cut.
>
Just the opposite here. My TS has older 50" vega fence that has very slight
concave over the legnth. Just enough to make glue joints have a noticeable
gap. Light pass over jointer fixes this. In fact, i've been toying with
the idea of running my TS fence through the jointer at super light setting
to fix the fence problem. Sounds crazy, but may work. I'm just waiting
until the jointer blades are close to needing replaced to do the
deed. --dave
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> And apparently Tom's brain is primary and perhaps his only safety devise.
I
> wonder if Tom has ever made a mistake doing something that he has been
doing
> for years? Have you ever been in a car wreck? Your brain should be a
> primary safety device but absolutely not the only one.
One of the things that I haven't seen mentioned is acknowledgement of the
fact that brains and nervous systems and muscle reactions are subject to
deterioration with age. The last people to acknowledge it and recognize it
are those that are in their 50's or later (I'm there). I ran naked without
a guard and splitter for a while. I liked the freedom and total view it
gave me of what was happening. I liked having the crappy factory
guard/splitter out of the way. I also noted that my number of "near misses"
was going up. One day, my right hand involuntarily flinched while holding a
push stick and tossed the push stick onto the top of the running table saw
blade, while my son-in-law was watching. I felt like an idiot. It was time
to acknowledge I needed some help, but quitting woodworking was not my
answer. I may have gone overboard but I have not had any near misses since
doing a few things - GripTite magnetic featherboards with steel fence,
GRRrippers, and small splitter installed on every zero-tolerance insert.
Funny thing - quality and consistency of my cuts went up - probably because
I was working much more confidently and able to raise my skill level.
I'm not a seasoned pro. In fact I think being a pro is not a testament to a
person's particular woodworking skill and knowledge, but more a testament to
their ability to run a business and make a living with it. I'll leave it to
the pros to argue this issue further.
Bob
"Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> One of the things that I haven't seen mentioned is acknowledgement of the
> fact that brains and nervous systems and muscle reactions are subject to
> deterioration with age. The last people to acknowledge it and recognize
> it
> are those that are in their 50's or later (I'm there).
Exactly, no one is perfect and exempt from making a tragic mistake. NO ONE.
Snip
GripTite magnetic featherboards with steel fence,
I tried that system about 4 years ago, I did not like the set up and
especially did not like the steel fence. I do use the Bench Dog feather
boards on occasion when ripping narrow pieces.
> GRRrippers, and small splitter installed on every zero-tolerance insert.
I use the green splitter in the zero clearance insert.
> Funny thing - quality and consistency of my cuts went up - probably
> because
> I was working much more confidently and able to raise my skill level.
That and IMHO the splitter keeps the wood away from the blade if it bows at
all during the cut resulting in a cleaner cut. If I purchase s4s I see
little difference but it makes a great difference when using s3s.
"Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Woodchuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I been watching for awhile and he never uses one? I find on my TS the
> > splitter can be more of a hassle then benefit. It's just too time
> consuming
> > to keep it set up and straight... but I still use it. For how much
longer
> I
> > don't know. Who uses it, and who doesn't, and why?
> >
> going without some form of splitter is insane. I use the Mesa Vista
> splitter with homemade zero tolerance throat plate - small cheap and
> effective and unobtrusive.
>
> <http://www.grip-tite.com/splitter.html>
>
> Bob
None of the table saws in my shop have splitters, I've never seen them used
in any cabinet shop.
In all my 37 years of cabinet making I've never found a use for splitters.
b
"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
> Hey Swingman
>
> For some reason, I'm not seeing any of your posts unless they're included
in
> other people's comments. Honest - I don't have you kf'd. I just went out
> to Google and saw a bunch of your posts so here's a couple of comments in
> reply to questions or points you raised...
I can't understand why? ... must be the manifestation of that paranoia of
mine from getting old(er). ;)
> Our positions are not so very far apart. Mine is that one should invest
in
> understanding
> one's environment. Yours does not deny this. We both question the
general
> availability
> of common sense.
I am glad that you recognize that, Mike ... and I respect both your actions
with regard to the splitters and the reasons for that action. You've
obviously given the issue some thought.
I never once advocated that any answer to my question would necessarily be
correct, just that honestly answering it would get at the underlying reason
of why folks either use, or do not use, a device like a splitter.
Some folks obviously don't like to look that deep into the reasons for what
they do, or worse, advocate what other's do.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> My point was not that "if you want to be a pro you gott'a ditch the
> (alledged) safety device", but was, in fact, spoofing that very
> idea/concept.
Anybody can be a pro, not every one can be an expert.
"Woodchuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I been watching for awhile and he never uses one? I find on my TS the
> splitter can be more of a hassle then benefit. It's just too time
consuming
> to keep it set up and straight... but I still use it. For how much longer
I
> don't know. Who uses it, and who doesn't, and why?
>
going without some form of splitter is insane. I use the Mesa Vista
splitter with homemade zero tolerance throat plate - small cheap and
effective and unobtrusive.
<http://www.grip-tite.com/splitter.html>
Bob
"Tom Watson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:31:58 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> >
> >"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >Got a kid just old enough to be in the shop?
> >
> >If so, there's a damn good way to dipstick your level of commitment to
NOT
> >using safety devices like splitters and guards. Put your non "pro" loved
one
> >_alone_ in the shop with 100 bf of lumber to cut, then think real hard
> >beforehand whether to use splitters and blade guards, or not.
> >
> >You will then know, at gut level, the strength of your commitment.
>
>
>
> You started out with turning it into a dick measuring contest and now
> you've moved on to child abuse.
>
> Congratulations.
>
> The point, which you have so deftly ignored, is that it is your brain
> that must be your primary safety device.
>
I never saw Swingman's original response, so I'll tag on Tom's to address
Swingman. That's just an absolutely foolish position and one that speaks to
open mouth before engaging brain. It is in fact the blind reliance on what
is purported to be a safety device rather than relying on proper safety.
Your implied logic Swingman is likely what causes the near accidents that
you credit the "safety" devices for having prevented becoming full fledged
disasters. A little practical thought and you can completely avoid most of
what you spread as fear-uncertainty-and doubt when it comes to proper and
safe use of tools.
In short - when I allowed my kids to use the power tools it was only after
they had worked for a long time with me in the shop. In the beginning they
were just helping hold things or were just sort of around the shop. They
began their indoctrination process by seeing the way things are safely done,
coupled with a bit of explanation. As they showed interest in using tools
they received a lot more instruction. They also received a lot of
demonstrations, and a lot of help. Lo and behold in no time at all they
were pretty well qualified to use my tools on their own at early ages. It
didn't take a lot of time and effort to get them to this point and they
actually understand the tools. That makes for a far more educated and
qualified operator than one who relies on scare tactics.
Know your tools, not just marketing and newsgroup claims.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
I TS to close width leaving final width after a light pass or two on the
jointer. Just habit. But you're right, I've noticed burn marks on occasion
as well. --dave
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Dave jackson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>I have never seen a splitter/guard on David Marks TS either.
>
> I do not use a splitter to prevent kick back rather to insure that the
> edge of the wood comes out smoother. I do see Norm and David Marks
> ripping wood and the tell tale burn marks on the edge of the wood on
> occasion.
>
>> Here's a proposition. I have an older Rockwell contractor special 1
>> 1/2 hp TS. It is used quite a bit and I don't use a splitter or a blade
>> guard. This may sound crazy to some, but I'm perfectly comfortable
>> running it that way. On rare occasions, I have cut a board that gets
>> wild and either wants to spread apart or close together and pinch the
>> blade. Whenever a board has gotten squirelly, I have been able to put
>> firm pressure against the board and keep it there, the motor will bog
>> down and i can shut the saw off and hold it there until the blade stops.
>> HOWEVER, if the saw had, say 3 hp, I don't think this would be safe, as
>> the motor wouldn't bog down as easily.
>
> I have used both a 1 hp and a 3 hp cabinet extensively with both tuned to
> cut well. I fear the lower powered saw and kick back much more than the
> higher powered saw. With that statement, I always hold the wood down
> securely while cutting and find that on the occasions when the wood seems
> to want to bind the higher power saw simply cuts through the wood rather
> than slow down and get hung up on the wood and increasing the chance of
> the wood being thrown back at me. This situation is when squaring up
> cabinet doors and not using a splitter.
> IF you do not securely hold your wood down the 3hp very well may throw
> back harder but I would suspect that technique is a bigger problem.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> In this case, I think a splitter would definitely be warranted. At work,
>> I use a portable TS regularly. Same situation here-no splitter as it was
>> integrated into the worthless guard. It's not unusual for construction
>> lumber to be "case hardened" and get crazy when ripping. That saw will
>> bog down real easy and will trip the breaker.
>> That said, and keep in mind I use a TS on a regular basis, I don't
>> feel a splitter is necessary on lower hp saws. Higher hp saws definitely.
>> BUT, keep in mind the TS is probably the most dangerous tool in the shop.
>> If you are somewhat skittish running your saw by all means, get a
>> splitter and use your guard. Ultimately, it's your fingers, and how
>> comfortable you are having them around a spinning blade. --dave
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> .
>> "Woodchuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>I been watching for awhile and he never uses one? I find on my TS the
>>>splitter can be more of a hassle then benefit. It's just too time
>>>consuming to keep it set up and straight... but I still use it. For how
>>>much longer I don't know. Who uses it, and who doesn't, and why?
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
Woodchuck wrote:
> I been watching for awhile and he never uses one? I find on my TS the
> splitter can be more of a hassle then benefit. It's just too time
> consuming to keep it set up and straight... but I still use it. For
> how much longer I don't know. Who uses it, and who doesn't, and why?
The scars on my left hand from July 2003 remind me to *always* use the
splitter.
-- Mark
"Woodchuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I been watching for awhile and he never uses one? I find on my TS the
> splitter can be more of a hassle then benefit. It's just too time
consuming
> to keep it set up and straight... but I still use it. For how much longer
I
> don't know. Who uses it, and who doesn't, and why?
>
>
I've never used a splitter in 30 some years. I have at times, had to keep
pieces from pinching back together and a splitter would have done that
without my efforts, but those have been relatively few. Some wood can have
a mind of its own and try to close back up after the cut, but it's
manageable in other ways besides a splitter. More often the need for a
splitter is disguising the need for a proper table saw setup, or proper use
of a tablesaw. I don't really have anything against splitters but my saws
have never had one on them and I never installed one. I don't recall there
ever being such a focus on splitters in the past, as there is now. It's
common to hear that you must use a splitter and a guard today, but for
decades people made sawdust without them and those folks are still making it
today. My thoughts are use it if it makes you comfortable, don't use it if
it doesn't. Just don't fall into believing that it's a must or that you are
now safe just because you have the gear installed on your saw. It's still
all about technique and setup. Mask one problem and eventually you'll
discover another one as a result. Usually in a surprising way.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
I have never seen a splitter/guard on David Marks TS either.
Here's a proposition. I have an older Rockwell contractor special 1 1/2
hp TS. It is used quite a bit and I don't use a splitter or a blade guard.
This may sound crazy to some, but I'm perfectly comfortable running it that
way. On rare occasions, I have cut a board that gets wild and either wants
to spread apart or close together and pinch the blade. Whenever a board has
gotten squirelly, I have been able to put firm pressure against the board
and keep it there, the motor will bog down and i can shut the saw off and
hold it there until the blade stops. HOWEVER, if the saw had, say 3 hp, I
don't think this would be safe, as the motor wouldn't bog down as easily.
In this case, I think a splitter would definitely be warranted. At work, I
use a portable TS regularly. Same situation here-no splitter as it was
integrated into the worthless guard. It's not unusual for construction
lumber to be "case hardened" and get crazy when ripping. That saw will bog
down real easy and will trip the breaker.
That said, and keep in mind I use a TS on a regular basis, I don't feel
a splitter is necessary on lower hp saws. Higher hp saws definitely. BUT,
keep in mind the TS is probably the most dangerous tool in the shop. If you
are somewhat skittish running your saw by all means, get a splitter and use
your guard. Ultimately, it's your fingers, and how comfortable you are
having them around a spinning blade. --dave
.
"Woodchuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I been watching for awhile and he never uses one? I find on my TS the
>splitter can be more of a hassle then benefit. It's just too time consuming
>to keep it set up and straight... but I still use it. For how much longer I
>don't know. Who uses it, and who doesn't, and why?
>
"Larry Bud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Battleax" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > "Battleax" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > > None of the table saws in my shop have splitters, I've never seen
them
> > > > used
> > > > in any cabinet shop.
> > > > In all my 37 years of cabinet making I've never found a use for
> > splitters.
> > >
> > >
> > > I kinda find that hard to believe.
> > > Well it did take me about 25 years to realize the value of a splitter.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > If a board I'm ripping starts to close up after the blade I lift it
straight
> > up and toss it into my kindling pile.
> > It will warp again regardless of how straight you get it with sawing.
>
> That's not exactly the point. When it closes up it could kick back.
> The goal of the splitter isn't to save the board, it's to save your
> body.
He didn't suggest that the goal was to save the board, he was saying that he
uses a different technique to mitigate the risk of kickback - he chucks the
bad wood.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Dave jackson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>I TS to close width leaving final width after a light pass or two on the
>>jointer. Just habit. But you're right, I've noticed burn marks on
>>occasion as well. --dave
>
> Ok, who taught you to get close with a TS and smooth up with a jointer????
> "~)
>
> My TS rips put my Jointer to shame when it comes to smoothness of cut.
>
Just the opposite here. My TS has older 50" vega fence that has very slight
concave over the legnth. Just enough to make glue joints have a noticeable
gap. Light pass over jointer fixes this. In fact, i've been toying with
the idea of running my TS fence through the jointer at super light setting
to fix the fence problem. Sounds crazy, but may work. I'm just waiting
until the jointer blades are close to needing replaced to do the
deed. --dave
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Mi9od.1706
>
> I never saw Swingman's original response, so I'll tag on Tom's to address
> Swingman. That's just an absolutely foolish position and one that speaks
> to
> open mouth before engaging brain. It is in fact the blind reliance on
> what
> is purported to be a safety device rather than relying on proper safety.
Did anyone say rely on a safety devise, It saves your butt when you make a
mistake "most of the time". Anyway, while your brain is the best safety
devise, the safety devise on your tools are more reliable than depending on
your brain all the time. We as human beings can become side tracked or
loose attention. Safety devices regardless of how lame they may be do not
loose track of what is going on.
If "you" think you may become reliant as a safety device to protect you from
harm, there in lays the problem. How many sane people will repeatedly pull
the trigger on a loaded hand gun aimed at their head with out fear of being
harmed because they know that the gun has a safety? I think a 10 inch saw
blade spinning a t 3800 rpm may have a similar effect of keeping the fear
factor up.
"Battleax" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> None of the table saws in my shop have splitters, I've never seen them
used
> in any cabinet shop.
> In all my 37 years of cabinet making I've never found a use for splitters.
> b
Are you saying that doing it 37 years makes it right? My brother-in-law who
has been woodworking for 40 years nearly took off three fingers last year
because of a stupid action.
I'm old enough to have stories like yours but never use that as
justification.
Bob
On Sun 21 Nov 2004 07:42:26a, "Woodchuck" <[email protected]>
wrote in news:[email protected]:
> I been watching for awhile and he never uses one? I find on my TS the
> splitter can be more of a hassle then benefit. It's just too time
> consuming to keep it set up and straight... but I still use it. For
> how much longer I don't know. Who uses it, and who doesn't, and why?
>
I use a piece of ruler from an old combination square, slighty sharpened at
the infeed side, and a slot cut in the bottom so I can loosen the bolt and
take it out quick when I want to run a dado.
I don't think I've ripcut anything but plywood where I haven't been
thankful that thing is there. I've watched boards come out of a cut and
BEFORE the splitter there's a nice 1/8 kerf, and AFTER the splitter the two
pieces are against each other so tightly you'd think they were clamped.
Dan
"Woodchuck" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I been watching for awhile and he never uses one? I find on my TS the
> splitter can be more of a hassle then benefit. It's just too time
> consuming to keep it set up and straight... but I still use it. For
> how much longer I don't know. Who uses it, and who doesn't, and why?
>
I use the Delta Removeable splitter that comes with the Overarm Guard,
orderable as a service part for less than $30. I've had several
experiences that remind me to put it in, whenever I'm done with the
crosscut sleds. I also seem to get better results on the materials I use.
However...
One evening last week, while watching an older NYW on the TiVo, my eldest
son was giving me unmitigated crap for 'instructing Norm on technique',
while he built some project or another.
Do things the way that makes you comfortable. Be willing to learn from
others. Smile as you enter, and leave, your workspace.
Patriarch
On Sun 21 Nov 2004 01:13:22p, loutent <[email protected]> wrote in
news:211120041413222886%[email protected]:
> If I see the wood closing up even slightly, I power the saw down and
> put a little wedge or 10 penny on the cut side. This happens a few
> times a year, but I don't use it every day like a pro.
I was going to post about how it happens to me more than half the time, but
then I remembered that I got a deal on a load of roughcut red oak tubafors,
which is what I've been using to build the workbench stand and frame some
shop stations. Now that I think about it, just about all the pieces that
immediately bent back in towards the blade were from that batch. That's
what made me so glad to have that homemade splitter. Perhaps it won't
happen so often with the next batch.
Dan
Tom Watson <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
<snip>
>
> The point is that it is your brain
> that must be your primary safety device.
I'll give you a hearty AMEN on that one, Tawm.
And on most of the previous, as well.
Patriarch
"Rick" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Tom,
>
> Another wonderful work of art. You do have a way with words.
>
> It's funny, how often I find myself forgetting the little simple facts
> of life when in the shop ... such as:
>
> Just HOW fast could a piece of wood kick back on me? ( Given your 10"
> /3450 RPM saw ... about 102 MPH)
>
> Will it hurt? (Yes, anything and everything in its path)
>
>
> Thanks for passing along some wonderful wisdom obtained by calculation
> and observation.
>
Well, Rick, some of us can add to that base of knowledge through direct
experience, without the math. Not that that's what I had in mind...
Some folks are visual learners. ;-)
Patriarch
"Tom Watson" wrote in message
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >It is apparently a well known fact that "pro shops" don't use splitters,
and
> >culturally speaking, we are convinced that all pro's have big pricks and
> >large cojones, therefore yours will somehow gain "pro" stature if you
also
> >refrain.
> >
> >What's missing is the fact that most "pro's" learn early the necessity to
> >physically control the wood throughout the cut, something a weekend
> >woodworker may not learn, except the hard way.
> The reasoning behind throwing away the OEM splitter/guard is almost
> always the same:
>
> 1. The OEM splitter/guards are poorly designed rubbish.
> 2. The operator wants to see the blade and the area immediately
> before and after the cut, so that he can react to what happens during
> the cutting operation.
> 3. The operator wants to deal with the wood, the blade and the
> fence - without other variables being introduced by the alleged safety
> devices.
Yabbut, you left out the pertinent part of my post:
>> Enter the "well designed" splitter, usually aftermarket, and not the POS
>> that came with the TS.
>>
>> It is inarguably a good thing for a weekend wooddorker to use one ... it
>>may well protect your appendages (as well as those of a "pro" in the
throes
>>of a brain fart) that _one_ time in 40 years of woodworking that it was
>>needed.
>>
>>Just get/make one that encourages use by being easy to install and remove,
>> that stays.in good working order, and that is not so flimsy as to be an
>>actual danger and therefore better than none.
Got a kid just old enough to be in the shop?
If so, there's a damn good way to dipstick your level of commitment to NOT
using safety devices like splitters and guards. Put your non "pro" loved one
_alone_ in the shop with 100 bf of lumber to cut, then think real hard
beforehand whether to use splitters and blade guards, or not.
You will then know, at gut level, the strength of your commitment.
Most of us, while not foolish all the time, will do a foolish thing now and
again ... and that's when we, and even the "pro's", need all the help we can
get to remain unscathed.
Besides, why not?
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
"Mike Girouard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > >
> > > I never saw Swingman's original response, so I'll tag on Tom's to
address
> > > Swingman. That's just an absolutely foolish position and one that
speaks
> > to
> > > open mouth before engaging brain. It is in fact the blind reliance on
> > what
> > > is purported to be a safety device rather than relying on proper
safety.
> > > Your implied logic Swingman is likely what causes the near accidents
that
> > > you credit the "safety" devices for having prevented becoming full
fledged
> > > disasters. A little practical thought and you can completely avoid
most
> > of
> > > what you spread as fear-uncertainty-and doubt when it comes to proper
and
> > > safe use of tools.
> > >
> > > In short - when I allowed my kids to use the power tools it was only
after
> > > they had worked for a long time with me in the shop. In the beginning
> > they
> > > were just helping hold things or were just sort of around the shop.
They
> > > began their indoctrination process by seeing the way things are safely
> > done,
> > > coupled with a bit of explanation. As they showed interest in using
tools
> > > they received a lot more instruction. They also received a lot of
> > > demonstrations, and a lot of help. Lo and behold in no time at all
they
> > > were pretty well qualified to use my tools on their own at early ages.
It
> > > didn't take a lot of time and effort to get them to this point and
they
> > > actually understand the tools. That makes for a far more educated and
> > > qualified operator than one who relies on scare tactics.
> > >
> > > Know your tools, not just marketing and newsgroup claims.
> > > --
> > >
> > > -Mike-
> > > [email protected]
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Man - that had a biting tone. Sorry about that - I really did not
intend
> > such a harsh sound.
>
> But do you or don't you use the spliiet on your TS?
>
My saws have neither a splitter nor a guard so the answer is no, I don't use
a splitter. Not because I'm opposed to them, but because I began using
tools like this at a time when nobody used splitters and guards were a
complete joke. They were a joke because nobody manufactured one that was
really workable. They were put on for some reason yet unknown by
historians, woodworkers of the era, and anyone with a thinking mind, 'cause
they certainly never worked. So - just about everyone threw them away
immediately and working without those devices was just the norm.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"patrick conroy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> You'll get some who say "I do" and some who say "Pro's don't.".
I'm a pro and use it. Saves me sanding time. The edges of the wood that
likes to move after being cut come out smoother.
"Tom Watson" wrote in message
"Swingman" wrote:
> OK Swing, you've made me change my mind.
>
> For those who present the sort of cognitive deficit evidenced by your
> poor reading comprehension skills, I would suggest the following as
> appropriate safety gear for any work in the shop.
A perfect damned ad hominen example ... of the pot calling the kettle black!
> http://www.febeltex.be/persfoto's/crackjac.jpg
So, what's a picture of a modern day bull rider got to do with it?
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
"Dave jackson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have never seen a splitter/guard on David Marks TS either.
I do not use a splitter to prevent kick back rather to insure that the edge
of the wood comes out smoother. I do see Norm and David Marks ripping wood
and the tell tale burn marks on the edge of the wood on occasion.
> Here's a proposition. I have an older Rockwell contractor special 1
> 1/2 hp TS. It is used quite a bit and I don't use a splitter or a blade
> guard. This may sound crazy to some, but I'm perfectly comfortable running
> it that way. On rare occasions, I have cut a board that gets wild and
> either wants to spread apart or close together and pinch the blade.
> Whenever a board has gotten squirelly, I have been able to put firm
> pressure against the board and keep it there, the motor will bog down and
> i can shut the saw off and hold it there until the blade stops. HOWEVER,
> if the saw had, say 3 hp, I don't think this would be safe, as the motor
> wouldn't bog down as easily.
I have used both a 1 hp and a 3 hp cabinet extensively with both tuned to
cut well. I fear the lower powered saw and kick back much more than the
higher powered saw. With that statement, I always hold the wood down
securely while cutting and find that on the occasions when the wood seems
to want to bind the higher power saw simply cuts through the wood rather
than slow down and get hung up on the wood and increasing the chance of the
wood being thrown back at me. This situation is when squaring up cabinet
doors and not using a splitter.
IF you do not securely hold your wood down the 3hp very well may throw back
harder but I would suspect that technique is a bigger problem.
> In this case, I think a splitter would definitely be warranted. At work,
> I use a portable TS regularly. Same situation here-no splitter as it was
> integrated into the worthless guard. It's not unusual for construction
> lumber to be "case hardened" and get crazy when ripping. That saw will
> bog down real easy and will trip the breaker.
> That said, and keep in mind I use a TS on a regular basis, I don't feel
> a splitter is necessary on lower hp saws. Higher hp saws definitely. BUT,
> keep in mind the TS is probably the most dangerous tool in the shop. If
> you are somewhat skittish running your saw by all means, get a splitter
> and use your guard. Ultimately, it's your fingers, and how comfortable
> you are having them around a spinning blade. --dave
>
>
>
>
>
> .
> "Woodchuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>I been watching for awhile and he never uses one? I find on my TS the
>>splitter can be more of a hassle then benefit. It's just too time
>>consuming to keep it set up and straight... but I still use it. For how
>>much longer I don't know. Who uses it, and who doesn't, and why?
>>
>
>
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> >
> > I never saw Swingman's original response, so I'll tag on Tom's to address
> > Swingman. That's just an absolutely foolish position and one that speaks
> to
> > open mouth before engaging brain. It is in fact the blind reliance on
> what
> > is purported to be a safety device rather than relying on proper safety.
> > Your implied logic Swingman is likely what causes the near accidents that
> > you credit the "safety" devices for having prevented becoming full fledged
> > disasters. A little practical thought and you can completely avoid most
> of
> > what you spread as fear-uncertainty-and doubt when it comes to proper and
> > safe use of tools.
> >
> > In short - when I allowed my kids to use the power tools it was only after
> > they had worked for a long time with me in the shop. In the beginning
> they
> > were just helping hold things or were just sort of around the shop. They
> > began their indoctrination process by seeing the way things are safely
> done,
> > coupled with a bit of explanation. As they showed interest in using tools
> > they received a lot more instruction. They also received a lot of
> > demonstrations, and a lot of help. Lo and behold in no time at all they
> > were pretty well qualified to use my tools on their own at early ages. It
> > didn't take a lot of time and effort to get them to this point and they
> > actually understand the tools. That makes for a far more educated and
> > qualified operator than one who relies on scare tactics.
> >
> > Know your tools, not just marketing and newsgroup claims.
> > --
> >
> > -Mike-
> > [email protected]
> >
> >
>
> Man - that had a biting tone. Sorry about that - I really did not intend
> such a harsh sound.
But do you or don't you use the spliiet on your TS?
FoggyTown
"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
> I never saw Swingman's original response, so I'll tag on Tom's to address
> Swingman. That's just an absolutely foolish position and one that speaks
to
> open mouth before engaging brain.
Since you admittedly didn't read my original post, _you_ are the one
speaking out of ignorance, with brain disengaged.
> In short - when I allowed my kids to use the power tools it was only after
> they had worked for a long time with me in the shop.
Without safety devices like splitters and blade guard? Answer the question
... do you insist that your children use such safety devices on the table
saw?
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 16:51:40 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>So, answer the question. Would you insist that your own kid use a splitter
>and blade guard until they were old enough to make up their own mind?
Your question is foolish.
It presupposes that I would allow a child to use a saw if they were in
any way less capable of using it safely than an adult.
I would not.
Regards,
Tom.
Thomas J. Watson - Cabinetmaker, ret.
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
"Woodchuck" wrote in message
> I been watching for awhile and he never uses one? I find on my TS the
> splitter can be more of a hassle then benefit. It's just too time
consuming
> to keep it set up and straight... but I still use it. For how much longer
I
> don't know. Who uses it, and who doesn't, and why?
It is apparently a well known fact that "pro shops" don't use splitters, and
culturally speaking, we are convinced that all pro's have big pricks and
large cojones, therefore yours will somehow gain "pro" stature if you also
refrain.
What's missing is the fact that most "pro's" learn early the necessity to
physically control the wood throughout the cut, something a weekend
woodworker may not learn, except the hard way.
(it's also amazing how fast your heretofore manly parts shrivel with blood
pouring out of a far removed appendage)
Enter the "well designed" splitter, usually aftermarket, and not the POS
that came with the TS.
It is inarguably a good thing for a weekend wooddorker to use one ... it
may well protect your appendages (as well as those of a "pro" in the throes
of a brain fart) that _one_ time in 40 years of woodworking that it was
needed.
Just get/make one that encourages use by being easy to install and remove,
that stays.in good working order, and that is not so flimsy as to be an
actual danger and therefore better than none.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:33:18 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Tom Watson" wrote in message
>> On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:14:35 -0600, "Swingman" wrote:
>>
>> >...Perfect...
>>
>>
>> Thank You!
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Tom.
>
>Hell, as long as we're completely ignoring context, I am glad you finally
>agree.
<g>
I'm glad that you two finally agree on this matter.
TWS
Bull.
"Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
> going without some form of splitter is insane.
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:31:58 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Got a kid just old enough to be in the shop?
>
>If so, there's a damn good way to dipstick your level of commitment to NOT
>using safety devices like splitters and guards. Put your non "pro" loved one
>_alone_ in the shop with 100 bf of lumber to cut, then think real hard
>beforehand whether to use splitters and blade guards, or not.
>
>You will then know, at gut level, the strength of your commitment.
You started out with turning it into a dick measuring contest and now
you've moved on to child abuse.
Congratulations.
The point, which you have so deftly ignored, is that it is your brain
that must be your primary safety device.
Regards,
Tom.
Thomas J. Watson - Cabinetmaker, ret.
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
"patriarch [email protected]>" <<patriarch> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Tom Watson <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> <snip>
>>
>> The point is that it is your brain
>> that must be your primary safety device.
>
> I'll give you a hearty AMEN on that one, Tawm.
>
> And on most of the previous, as well.
>
> Patriarch
And apparently Tom's brain is primary and perhaps his only safety devise. I
wonder if Tom has ever made a mistake doing something that he has been doing
for years? Have you ever been in a car wreck? Your brain should be a
primary safety device but absolutely not the only one. I will also note
that I DO NOT use a guard but do use a splitter. And yes I know that it
will probably be my fault when I get hurt AGAIN. I am not foolish enough
to think that it will be "if" I get hurt again, I know that it will likely
happen again. It took me 1 year to realize how I was injured as I was not
cutting wood when my accident happened on the TS.
Hey Swingman
For some reason, I'm not seeing any of your posts unless they're included in
other people's comments. Honest - I don't have you kf'd. I just went out
to Google and saw a bunch of your posts so here's a couple of comments in
reply to questions or points you raised...
At one point I said...
>> In short - when I allowed my kids to use the power tools it was only
after
>> they had worked for a long time with me in the shop.
And then you said...
> Without safety devices like splitters and blade guard? Answer the question
> ... do you insist that your children use such safety devices on the table
> saw?
To which I say...
Correct - without safety devices like splitters and blade guards. Like I
said
early on in this discussion, my saws never had them. No - I do not insist
they use
these devices. They wouldn't get any work done if I did. They do however
know
to watch for the things that cause kickback etc. They know how to use the
tools.
The tools are still dangerous, but they know how to use them and they
exercise great
caution. Beyond that I can't guarntee no accidents. The best I can do is
educate them
and instill good practices. Fortunately, they follow those.
Then, at another point you said...
"Leon" wrote in message
>> mistake "most of the time". Anyway, while your brain is the best safety
>> devise, the safety devise on your tools are more reliable than depending
on
>> your brain all the time. We as human beings can become side tracked or
>> loose attention. Safety devices regardless of how lame they may be do
not
>> loose track of what is going on.
> Precisely .. Mike seems to imply that "knowledge and practiced awareness"
> will always protect you from harm. Yeah, right ... in the ADD generation
and
> the ones who spawned it ... for sure.
Well, nothing protects you from harm all of the time. I do advocate
knowledge and
practiced awareness over blind reliance on "safety" devices though. As I've
said repeatedly, I'd never suggest someone should not use a splitter, or a
guard, or
any other device. In fact, I've never said I would never use one. I'm
interested in
something that will actually work on a saw and I look into these frequently.
Most of
what I've seen though is more gadgety than useful. What I do think is
outright foolish
is exactly what I referenced before - blind reliance on these things. A
reliance that
breeds statements like "not using a splitter is just stupid". Statements
like that only
reflect that the speaker does not understand much at all about the way table
saws
have been used for decades, but is suddenly an expert because of what he
reads
in a newsgroup. That type of person is more dangerous than my 10" saw with
no
guard. You've got to admit - those comments are frequent here.
> My point all along has been that you can't rely on commodities that are
> demonstrably in such short supply these days.
Our positions are not so very far apart. Mine is that one should invest in
understanding
one's environment. Yours does not deny this. We both question the general
availability
of common sense.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 06:25:24 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
enough to convince me that he is operating at a diminished capacity.
OK Swing, you've made me change my mind.
For those who present the sort of cognitive deficit evidenced by your
poor reading comprehension skills, I would suggest the following as
appropriate safety gear for any work in the shop.
http://www.febeltex.be/persfoto's/crackjac.jpg
Regards,
Tom.
"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston
Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 14:53:36 GMT, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Woodchuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> I been watching for awhile and he never uses one? I find on my TS the
>> splitter can be more of a hassle then benefit. It's just too time
>consuming
>> to keep it set up and straight... but I still use it. For how much longer
>I
>> don't know. Who uses it, and who doesn't, and why?
I have to admit, I took mine off, because it was signifigantly more
dangerous having the cheap one that came with the saw on then it was
running the sucker without it. The problem was that no matter how
much time I spent setting it up carefully, and wrenching the sucker
down, it would invariably move on me, and cause the splitter to jam up
against the end of the stock instead of sliding into the kerf. As far
as I could see, this was not only making extra work for me, but
actually increasing my risk of kickback by shifting the workpiece a
little when it jammed. Perhaps I'll install a different one, or a
riving knife if I can find one for my odd sized table (with it's odd
sized blade insert- thanks, Delta) but it's more likely that I'm just
going to have to continue to use the tool carefully.
>
>I've never used a splitter in 30 some years. I have at times, had to keep
>pieces from pinching back together and a splitter would have done that
>without my efforts, but those have been relatively few. Some wood can have
>a mind of its own and try to close back up after the cut, but it's
>manageable in other ways besides a splitter. More often the need for a
>splitter is disguising the need for a proper table saw setup, or proper use
>of a tablesaw. I don't really have anything against splitters but my saws
>have never had one on them and I never installed one. I don't recall there
>ever being such a focus on splitters in the past, as there is now. It's
>common to hear that you must use a splitter and a guard today, but for
>decades people made sawdust without them and those folks are still making it
>today. My thoughts are use it if it makes you comfortable, don't use it if
>it doesn't. Just don't fall into believing that it's a must or that you are
>now safe just because you have the gear installed on your saw. It's still
>all about technique and setup. Mask one problem and eventually you'll
>discover another one as a result. Usually in a surprising way.
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:26:39 -0500, "George" <george@least> wrote:
>most of them were with true poplar or elm, stuff
>that just doesn't behave. I bandsaw that stuff now.
Elm doesn't behave ? I've not much experience with it (thanks to
Dutch elm disease), but our UK elms seem fairly benign.
Do you ever work larch ? Now big rips in larch are where I find the
stuff hotmelt-gluing itself onto the splitter. I'm just glad it's not
the blade.
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> "Tom Watson" wrote in message
>> On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:31:58 -0600, "Swingman" wrote:
>> >Got a kid just old enough to be in the shop?
Spooky... As I was mulling over Tom's first posting, I scribed your last two
posts in my head. The first one tossing around the notion that if you want
to be a pro you gott'a ditch the (alledged) safety device. The second one is
what would I do if it was my kid in the shop.
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 07:42:09 GMT, patriarch
<<patriarch>[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Well, Rick, some of us can add to that base of knowledge through direct
>experience, without the math. Not that that's what I had in mind...
>
>Some folks are visual learners. ;-)
... in some cases more visceral than (just) visual :-)
"patrick conroy" wrote in message
> Spooky... As I was mulling over Tom's first posting, I scribed your last
two
> posts in my head. The first one tossing around the notion that if you want
> to be a pro you gott'a ditch the (alledged) safety device.
My point was not that "if you want to be a pro you gott'a ditch the
(alledged) safety device", but was, in fact, spoofing that very
idea/concept.
>The second one is
> what would I do if it was my kid in the shop.
IMO, the answer to that question speaks volumes as to whether _safety_ is
the real issue in some folk's minds.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:31:58 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Got a kid just old enough to be in the shop?
Only if they've finished sweeping the chimneys from the insides.
And Daisy the cow probably needs reaming again too. No playing with
the hazardous tools until they've done their chores.
We're too soft on our kids. Prince Charles is right. Teach 'em some
respect for the machinery.
"Tom Watson" wrote in message
> On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 16:51:40 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> >So, answer the question. Would you insist that your own kid use a
splitter
> >and blade guard until they were old enough to make up their own mind?
>
>
> Your question is foolish.
It is damned foolish to think otherwise.
> It presupposes that I would allow a child to use a saw if they were in
> any way less capable of using it safely than an adult.
>
> I would not.
I clearly stated "old enough to be in the shop". "Child" is your spin.
It's a perfectly cogent point/question as it speaks directly to the issue,
removes the "pro's don't use them" argument, and illuminates your true
feelings regarding the matter ... providing you answer it honestly, that is.
If you would insist that your kid use these particular safety devices in the
shop, and you don't use them, then there is clearly an issue _other_ than
safety involved.
We already know by accident statistics that a good many folks are just too
damn lazy to avail themselves of safety devices like splitters and blade
guards, and then condescendingly justify it with the macho bullshit that the
"pro's don't do it".
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Battleax" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > None of the table saws in my shop have splitters, I've never seen them
> > used
> > in any cabinet shop.
> > In all my 37 years of cabinet making I've never found a use for
splitters.
>
>
> I kinda find that hard to believe.
> Well it did take me about 25 years to realize the value of a splitter.
>
>
If a board I'm ripping starts to close up after the blade I lift it straight
up and toss it into my kindling pile.
It will warp again regardless of how straight you get it with sawing.
b
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 08:42:26 -0500, "Woodchuck"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I been watching for awhile and he never uses one? I find on my TS the
>splitter can be more of a hassle then benefit. It's just too time consuming
>to keep it set up and straight... but I still use it. For how much longer I
>don't know. Who uses it, and who doesn't, and why?
>
If you want a good deal on an unused splitter, stop by one of the pro
shops in your area.
They are likely to have a number of them sitting around gathering
dust.
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> It is inarguably a good thing for a weekend wooddorker to use one ... it
> may well protect your appendages (as well as those of a "pro" in the
throes
> of a brain fart) that _one_ time in 40 years of woodworking that it was
> needed.
>
> Just get/make one that encourages use by being easy to install and remove,
> that stays.in good working order, and that is not so flimsy as to be an
> actual danger and therefore better than none.
You gave one of the most rational, calm explanations I've seen. I'd guess
that there are a goodly number of "non-pro" workers in this conference and
your advice applies well to them (and me!). Some guys who are pros seem to
think they have a god-like status in what's right for everyone. The can
take a leap off their pedestal anytime they feel like, as far as I'm
concerned.
Bob
Tom,
Another wonderful work of art. You do have a way with words.
It's funny, how often I find myself forgetting the little simple facts of
life when in the shop ... such as:
Just HOW fast could a piece of wood kick back on me? ( Given your 10" /3450
RPM saw ... about 102 MPH)
Will it hurt? (Yes, anything and everything in its path)
Thanks for passing along some wonderful wisdom obtained by calculation and
observation.
Regards,
Rick
"Tom Watson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:35:06 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >"Woodchuck" wrote in message
> >> I been watching for awhile and he never uses one? I find on my TS the
> >> splitter can be more of a hassle then benefit. It's just too time
> >consuming
> >> to keep it set up and straight... but I still use it. For how much
longer
> >I
> >> don't know. Who uses it, and who doesn't, and why?
> >
> >It is apparently a well known fact that "pro shops" don't use splitters,
and
> >culturally speaking, we are convinced that all pro's have big pricks and
> >large cojones, therefore yours will somehow gain "pro" stature if you
also
> >refrain.
> >
> >What's missing is the fact that most "pro's" learn early the necessity to
> >physically control the wood throughout the cut, something a weekend
> >woodworker may not learn, except the hard way.
>
>
> I've probably been in a couple of dozen shops over the last thirty
> five plus years that would be considered pro shops and used a ten inch
> tablesaw somewhere in their operations. In some cases, like mine, it
> was the primary sawing tool in the shop and in the others it was a
> much used secondary tool because those shops used sliders as the
> primary.
>
> I honestly can't recall any instances where the guard and splitter
> that came with the saw were in use. In those cases where a guard was
> used, it was usually the type that provided dust extraction,
> particularly in shops where a lot of MDF was cut; and it was
> positioned so that the blade could be clearly seen during the cut. In
> other words, it was not acting as a guard.
>
> I can't speak to the size of their pricks and this is surely a topic
> for another thread - if not another newsgroup.
>
> They were/are, without exception, deca-digital wooddorkers.
>
> The reasoning behind throwing away the OEM splitter/guard is almost
> always the same:
>
> 1. The OEM splitter/guards are poorly designed rubbish.
> 2. The operator wants to see the blade and the area immediately
> before and after the cut, so that he can react to what happens during
> the cutting operation.
> 3. The operator wants to deal with the wood, the blade and the
> fence - without other variables being introduced by the alleged safety
> devices.
>
> That said, there are a number of caveats that must be explored in
> order to account for these pros continued ability to count to ten
> without recourse to their pedestrial appendages.
>
>
>
> Stock Preparation:
>
> When I worked as a carpenter I would often see a future organ donor
> try to feed a twisted, bowed, crooked, waney-edged piece of material
> into the angry part of a poorly set up, underpowered, dull-bladed
> widow maker of a machine that could only be called a tablesaw by
> analogy.
>
> These were the sorts who eventually wound up trying, ineffectively,
> to clear nasal blockages with a phantom limblet.
>
> The pro would avail himself of those tools which would render the
> stock into a condition where it is fit to be fed into the saw, ie:
> with a flat face produced on the jointer or careful use of the
> thicknesser; with the faces planed parallel, the edges trued straight
> on the jointer, and the twist eliminated or ameliorated via jointer or
> cross cutting of the stock to eliminate the worst of the twist.
>
> Anything less than this is Sawicide.
>
>
>
> Artful Dodging And The Careful Management Of Fear:
>
> "Fear is the mindkiller. Fear is the little death that brings total
> obliteration." Frank Herbert.
>
> The pro who seeks to protect his continued ability to disseminate
> inseminating solutions never stands in a direct line with a potential
> projectile. He stands to the side and addresses his saw with respect,
> but without fear. Standing in the possible path of a piece of ash
> that might be propelled towards the famous Italian Airline
> (Gen-Italia) at a speed governed by a c. 3450 rpm, 3hp motor is an
> exercise in Darwinism.
>
> Fear and Foolish Inattention are what gets most infrequent users of
> the tablesaw injured. Let us now explore Fear - Foolish Inattention
> comes later.
>
> I've seen them push the wood into the sawblade without sufficient
> downward pressure on the table or sideward pressure on the fence -
> this is the greatest cause of kickback. They proceed in a tentative
> fashion and their fear is the cause of the feared result. It is as
> though they do not want to commit the aligned force of their hand and
> body pressure towards the spinning amputator - and this is good - to a
> degree.
>
> The solution is to be a student of the Bee Sting Theory.
>
> The Bee Sting Theory states that: "One should never push on a piece
> of material in such a way that - if a bee stung them on the ass - any
> body part would naturally move towards the amputator."
>
> The downward force is applied well prior to the intersection of the
> blade and the material, as is the side pressure; and this pressure is
> always applied in such a way and at such an angle to the amputator as
> to make the body parts unavailable to the amputator under conditions
> of surprisingly stressful events, ie: bee stings, earthquakes, naked
> women springing quickly and unexpectedly into the field of vision,
> etc.
>
> Ahem...
>
> Although the pro may adjust the height of the blade to project above
> the material to various heights, in order to gain the advantages of
> blade/tooth geometry - I would not recommend that an inexperienced
> user do this. This user should only allow the teeth to barely stand
> proud of the material - and he should do all of his cutting this way
> until he is used to how the saw and the wood react.
>
> When he gets used to cutting, his fear will leave him - but his
> respect should remain.
>
>
>
> Useful Appliances And Their Result In Use:
>
> Although most small shop pros may eschew the use of the OEM alleged
> safety devices, this is not to say that they use no safety devices at
> all.
>
> To whit:
>
> They often make use of hold downs and feather boards. It is always
> the case when I am attempting a glue line rip and is most often the
> case in repetitive rips that pros use hold downs and featherboards.
>
> These devices provide safety in the regard of appropriate pressure in
> the appropriate direction, as well as providing a superior cut. They
> also do this for you without occluding your line of sight to the blade
> - a great benefit.
>
> Deca-digital professionals also make constant use of push sticks. My
> personal favorite is a 1/2" thk simulacrum of a female leg (magic
> markered in replication of mesh stockings is optional in most shops,
> but required in mine), with a spiked heel at the end to encompass the
> woody material - ymmv on this.
>
> On stock of such width as to make use of the GamStick (tm TW)
> impractical, I resort to the use of an icepick. This is an old
> patternmaker's trick but provides enhanced enjoyment to Kubrick fans.
>
>
>
> Foolish Inattention:
>
> This category begins with sawblades. Not to put too fine a point on
> it, but - combo blades suck.
>
> If you are going to do much ripping on the tablesaw you need to get a
> ripping blade. Some ripping blades will give a rough cut but a good
> glue line ripping blade will provide a wonderfully smooth surface,
> suitable for glue ups without further treatment on the jointer.
>
> Using the wrong blade for ripping results in a kerf that is too small
> to assist in the prevention of kickback.
>
> You must also be attentive to your saw setup. The blade must be
> parallel to the fence. The blade should not toe in or out.
>
> The blade must be parallel to the fence.
> The blade must be parallel to the fence.
> The blade must be parallel to the fence.
> The blade must be parallel to the fence.
> The blade must be parallel to the fence.
>
> Can I get an Amen!
>
> Properly prepared stock in a saw that is properly set up, with a blade
> of the proper type, operated by someone who respects the saw without
> fearing it, will result in safe cuts - with the following provisos:
>
> Understand Your Stock:
>
> During the process of stock preparation you should have discovered a
> good deal about the properties of your material. You should be able
> to determine the grain direction along the proposed cut line and you
> should be able to see if you are dealing with reaction wood, rather
> than mild stock.
>
> I like to feed wood into the ripping blade with the same attention to
> grain direction and slope as I would use with when feeding the
> thicknesser or the jointer.
>
> By being mindful of this you can eliminate the production of pointy-
> sticks-headed-towards-your-nether-regions to a great degree, as well
> as keeping at bay the explosive surprises contained within some highly
> figured and interlocked-grained woods.
>
>
> Don't Be Stupid:
>
> If a piece breaks off between the blade and the fence - shut the saw
> down.
>
> If the blade starts to bind on your material, even though you have
> taken all of the above precautions - shut the saw down.
>
> If someone walks into your shop while you are ripping, because you
> foolishly neglected to lock the doors - shut the saw down.
>
> If the song on the 400hp shop music device is sounding so good to you
> that you start to get Happy Feet - shut the saw down.
>
> If you decide that you would like to have the first Pina Colada of the
> day in the middle of a rip - shut the saw down.
>
>
> Remember - Be Like The Pros
>
> Because Pro-made
>
> Is Better Than
>
> Ho-made
>
> and much safer.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Tom.
>
> Thomas J. Watson - Cabinetmaker, ret.
> tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
> http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
"Tom Watson" wrote in message
> On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:31:58 -0600, "Swingman" wrote:
> >
> >"Swingman" wrote:
>
> >
> >Got a kid just old enough to be in the shop?
> >
> >If so, there's a damn good way to dipstick your level of commitment to
NOT
> >using safety devices like splitters and guards. Put your non "pro" loved
one
> >_alone_ in the shop with 100 bf of lumber to cut, then think real hard
> >beforehand whether to use splitters and blade guards, or not.
> >
> >You will then know, at gut level, the strength of your commitment.
> You started out with turning it into a dick measuring contest and now
> you've moved on to child abuse.
>
> Congratulations.
LOL!
So, answer the question. Would you insist that your own kid use a splitter
and blade guard until they were old enough to make up their own mind?
> The point, which you have so deftly ignored, is that it is your brain
> that must be your primary safety device.
Quite the contrary ... considering some using tools these days, ignoring any
safety devices is arguably the product of a disengaged brain. You forget
what century you're in? ... there ain't no more shop classes in junior high
school.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
"Leon" wrote in message
> mistake "most of the time". Anyway, while your brain is the best safety
> devise, the safety devise on your tools are more reliable than depending
on
> your brain all the time. We as human beings can become side tracked or
> loose attention. Safety devices regardless of how lame they may be do not
> loose track of what is going on.
Precisely .. Mike seems to imply that "knowledge and practiced awareness"
will always protect you from harm. Yeah, right ... in the ADD generation and
the ones who spawned it ... for sure.
My point all along has been that you can't rely on commodities that are
demonstrably in such short supply these days.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
"Dave Jackson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Just the opposite here. My TS has older 50" vega fence that has very
slight
> concave over the legnth. Just enough to make glue joints have a
noticeable
> gap. Light pass over jointer fixes this. In fact, i've been toying with
> the idea of running my TS fence through the jointer at super light setting
> to fix the fence problem. Sounds crazy, but may work. I'm just waiting
> until the jointer blades are close to needing replaced to do the
> deed. --dave
>
>
Ouch! Why not use a long board and sandpaper glued to it to flatten it
down? Much more controllable and surely less aggravating to your jointer
knives.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]