On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 07:35:10 -0600, Conan the Librarian
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Andy Dingley wrote:
>
>> Last time I saw someone do this with a #112 it was pretty easy.
>>
>> Roughly cut a softwood packing block to rest on the upper surface of
>> the sole. Screw a couple of bolts into the handle hold-downs. Use
>> fork-ended milling clamps to grab these and pull them downwards.
>> Remove the cracked casting from the mill table and order a whole new
>> plane from Lee Valley...
>
> This made me laugh out loud. :-) Not that I've ever done it (no,
>really), but that was exactly what I was thinking when reading about
>clamping a plane/scraper/whatever body in place to work on it.
>
> FWIW, Paul Womack (a.k.a. "Bugbear"), who makes an occasional
>appearance around these parts, has made a jig for helping to hold planes
>while filing their soles flat. It's at:
>http://www.geocities.com/plybench/flatten.html Scroll down until you
>get to "Hold Still" for some pics and a description.
>
>
> Chuck Vance
>
pretty similar to what I was figuring the mill setup would look like,
except height adjustability in the end supports.
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 14:05:58 -0700, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> a couple of hours of quality time with the mill and a quick swipe at
> lapping the sole with a sharpening stone and now it's making big fat
> curlies. WHEEEEEEEE!!!!!
OK, so I have a milling machine, are you saying you've used one for
getting a plane close to ready? How would I clamp the darn thing?
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:24:18 -0700, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 17 Nov 2004 21:21:39 GMT, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>OK, so I have a milling machine, are you saying you've used one for
>>getting a plane close to ready? How would I clamp the darn thing?
>
> clamping was half of the time ; ^ )
Only half? Usually, setup takes much longer than cutting, but maybe
that's just me.
> for a plane with square sides I'd grab it in the mill vise by the
> sides (cheeks?)
Ah, I'll give that a shot. Prolly start on one of the crappier ones.
But yes, I'll check the sites to make sure it's not a rare varient of
whatever, just in case I screw it up.
About that, does any of this reduce collector value of an antique Stanley,
or is it all considered "making the tool work right" so it's OK, or ???
Dave Hinz
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 00:03:21 +0000, Andy Dingley <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Last time I saw someone do this with a #112 it was pretty easy.
Anyone in this conversation by any chance, Andy?
> Roughly cut a softwood packing block to rest on the upper surface of
> the sole. Screw a couple of bolts into the handle hold-downs. Use
> fork-ended milling clamps to grab these and pull them downwards.
Right. But won't that put a concentrated stress on the...
> Remove the cracked casting from the mill table and order a whole new
> plane from Lee Valley...
Gotcha.
Dave Hinz
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 07:26:42 -0600, Conan the Librarian <[email protected]> wrote:
> But if Dave Hinz is reading this part of the thread, he might want
> to be sure to have the iron in place and everything set up as if he were
> going to take a shaving (with the iron retracted, of course), before
> lapping or checking the sole of a plane for flatness.
See, that's the thing. I'm not sure that milling the sole would get
me anywhere, because all of the other stresses that distort the sole in
normal use aren't going to be present. There's always glass and wet/dry
sandpaper. That's what TV is for, right?
Dave
On 17 Nov 2004 21:21:39 GMT, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:
>OK, so I have a milling machine, are you saying you've used one for
>getting a plane close to ready? How would I clamp the darn thing?
Last time I saw someone do this with a #112 it was pretty easy.
Roughly cut a softwood packing block to rest on the upper surface of
the sole. Screw a couple of bolts into the handle hold-downs. Use
fork-ended milling clamps to grab these and pull them downwards.
Remove the cracked casting from the mill table and order a whole new
plane from Lee Valley...
--
Smert' spamionam
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:01:12 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>anybody here have a link to a good in depth write up on tuning a
>stanley #80?
heh.
sitting here getting ready to carry it back out to the shop for
another try at a new sharpening configuration and with the vernier
caliper sitting next to it I on a whim used the beam of the caliper to
chech the sole for flatness.
convex by a lot. 1/16" or so.
DUH....
On 18 Nov 2004 15:36:54 GMT, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:
>Anyone in this conversation by any chance, Andy?
No.
The sad part is it wasn't a bad #112 to begin with. OTOH, my own #112
is a piece of junk made on a Victorian Friday afternoon after a long
lunchtime down gin lane. I could quite cheerfully break that piece of
crap in half.
--
Smert' spamionam
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> anybody here have a link to a good in depth write up on tuning a
> stanley #80?
Hi, Bridger.
Sharpen it pretty much as you would a normal cabinet scraper. Have a look
at:
http://www.woodworking.org/WC/Channels/scraper.html
Cheers
Frank
[email protected] wrote:
> so I'm having a difficult time keeping it from chattering. it's an
> older late style #80 with a lot of wear I got offa ebay with no blade.
> I made one from stock I had on hand, it's 0.057 saw blade stock, which
> I figured would be plenty thick enough for the application, but it's
> not working. Anybody here have a stock blade you could mike and let me
> know how thick it is?
That sounds plenty thick for the blade.
> I've tried a bunch of different grind angles, amounts of blade showing
> and agressivenesses of hook, but no joy. what gives?
Usually when I get chatter, it's because I have too much blade
exposed. Also, it could be that you're not maintaining enough downward
pressure so the scraper sole isn't staying in close enough contact with
the wood (this would actually be "skipping" vs. "chattering", but the
end-result can appear similar).
FWIW, you might want to try using it without any hook at all to see
if it works better. It will tend to cut less aggressively, and if you
find it works, then you can gradually add a bit of a hook to it and test
it along the way to see if there is a point at which it no longer works.
That gives you something to aim for the next time you prepare the edge.
Chuck Vance
[email protected] wrote:
> sitting here getting ready to carry it back out to the shop for
> another try at a new sharpening configuration and with the vernier
> caliper sitting next to it I on a whim used the beam of the caliper to
> chech the sole for flatness.
>
> convex by a lot. 1/16" or so.
>
> DUH....
You beat me to it. I was reading your last post in this thread and
thinking about the other thread about tuning a plane and the light-bulb
went off. :-)
FWIW, have you checked it both with and without the blade clamped in
place? That can make a substantial difference in how flat a sole is.
Chuck Vance
[email protected] wrote:
> a couple of hours of quality time with the mill and a quick swipe at
> lapping the sole with a sharpening stone and now it's making big fat
> curlies. WHEEEEEEEE!!!!!
Congrats. Those things are fun to use, no? If you find you rely on
it a lot, you might even consider getting a Hock blade for it. Those
things are 1/16" thick, IIRC, and really do seem to make a difference in
performance.
>> FWIW, have you checked it both with and without the blade clamped in
>>place? That can make a substantial difference in how flat a sole is.
>
> I'd think not as much on an 80 as on other planes. the 80 has an
> integral "frog" and the forces clamping the blade to it are almost
> parallel the sole. once I get into really lapping it I'll pay
> attention to that...
Of course you're right. I was thinking in terms of planes and the
combination of stresses that the frog and cap-iron screw bring into play.
But if Dave Hinz is reading this part of the thread, he might want
to be sure to have the iron in place and everything set up as if he were
going to take a shaving (with the iron retracted, of course), before
lapping or checking the sole of a plane for flatness.
Chuck Vance
Andy Dingley wrote:
> Last time I saw someone do this with a #112 it was pretty easy.
>
> Roughly cut a softwood packing block to rest on the upper surface of
> the sole. Screw a couple of bolts into the handle hold-downs. Use
> fork-ended milling clamps to grab these and pull them downwards.
> Remove the cracked casting from the mill table and order a whole new
> plane from Lee Valley...
This made me laugh out loud. :-) Not that I've ever done it (no,
really), but that was exactly what I was thinking when reading about
clamping a plane/scraper/whatever body in place to work on it.
FWIW, Paul Womack (a.k.a. "Bugbear"), who makes an occasional
appearance around these parts, has made a jig for helping to hold planes
while filing their soles flat. It's at:
http://www.geocities.com/plybench/flatten.html Scroll down until you
get to "Hold Still" for some pics and a description.
Chuck Vance
On 17 Nov 2004 23:22:43 GMT, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>OK, so I have a milling machine, are you saying you've used one for
>>>getting a plane close to ready? How would I clamp the darn thing?
>>
>> clamping was half of the time ; ^ )
>
>Only half? Usually, setup takes much longer than cutting, but maybe
>that's just me.
well, that wasn't including collet change and bit setup. and even
then, clamping may have been a bit more than half.
>
>> for a plane with square sides I'd grab it in the mill vise by the
>> sides (cheeks?)
>
>Ah, I'll give that a shot. Prolly start on one of the crappier ones.
>But yes, I'll check the sites to make sure it's not a rare varient of
>whatever, just in case I screw it up.
>
>About that, does any of this reduce collector value of an antique Stanley,
>or is it all considered "making the tool work right" so it's OK, or ???
if it's a collector, don't touch it. if you're me, don't even own it.
sell it and get a dozen users....
>Dave Hinz
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 00:03:21 +0000, Andy Dingley
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Last time I saw someone do this with a #112 it was pretty easy.
>
>Roughly cut a softwood packing block to rest on the upper surface of
>the sole. Screw a couple of bolts into the handle hold-downs. Use
>fork-ended milling clamps to grab these and pull them downwards.
>Remove the cracked casting from the mill table and order a whole new
>plane from Lee Valley...
cracking is a real risk. be careful with clamp setup and fit blocks
and wedges wherever you need to to keep from having to torque down too
hard on odd-shaped iron castings.
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 14:11:30 -0600, Conan the Librarian
<[email protected]> wrote:
>[email protected] wrote:
>
>> sitting here getting ready to carry it back out to the shop for
>> another try at a new sharpening configuration and with the vernier
>> caliper sitting next to it I on a whim used the beam of the caliper to
>> check the sole for flatness.
>>
>> convex by a lot. 1/16" or so.
>>
>> DUH....
>
> You beat me to it. I was reading your last post in this thread and
>thinking about the other thread about tuning a plane and the light-bulb
>went off. :-)
a couple of hours of quality time with the mill and a quick swipe at
lapping the sole with a sharpening stone and now it's making big fat
curlies. WHEEEEEEEE!!!!!
>
> FWIW, have you checked it both with and without the blade clamped in
>place? That can make a substantial difference in how flat a sole is.
I'd think not as much on an 80 as on other planes. the 80 has an
integral "frog" and the forces clamping the blade to it are almost
parallel the sole. once I get into really lapping it I'll pay
attention to that...
thanks, all. another "wreck moment"....
On 18 Nov 2004 15:38:39 GMT, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 07:26:42 -0600, Conan the Librarian <[email protected]> wrote:
>> But if Dave Hinz is reading this part of the thread, he might want
>> to be sure to have the iron in place and everything set up as if he were
>> going to take a shaving (with the iron retracted, of course), before
>> lapping or checking the sole of a plane for flatness.
>
>See, that's the thing. I'm not sure that milling the sole would get
>me anywhere, because all of the other stresses that distort the sole in
>normal use aren't going to be present. There's always glass and wet/dry
>sandpaper. That's what TV is for, right?
>
>Dave
depends how out of flat the sole is. mine was WAAAAY out. I still
lapped it to finish by hand anyway- the mill marks weren't smooth
enough for me.
for that matter, you could set it up in the mill with frog in place.
the frog screws are going to pull most of the "in situ" stresses on
the body. you _could_ set it up with iron and all, but it'd get pretty
awkward to get into the mill.
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:01:12 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>anybody here have a link to a good in depth write up on tuning a
>stanley #80?
so I'm having a difficult time keeping it from chattering. it's an
older late style #80 with a lot of wear I got offa ebay with no blade.
I made one from stock I had on hand, it's 0.057 saw blade stock, which
I figured would be plenty thick enough for the application, but it's
not working. Anybody here have a stock blade you could mike and let me
know how thick it is?
I've tried a bunch of different grind angles, amounts of blade showing
and agressivenesses of hook, but no joy. what gives?
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 12:07:17 +0000, Andy Dingley
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 22:08:25 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>Anybody here have a stock blade you could mike and let me
>>know how thick it is?
>
>0.042" -- an old Sweetheart, and a new English one.
thanks. I didn't have a blade to work from, so I used the thickest I
had.
I have a hard time imagining the blade being too thick being a source
of chatter. *that* goes contrary to everything I know...
any clues what's up?
On 17 Nov 2004 21:21:39 GMT, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 14:05:58 -0700, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> a couple of hours of quality time with the mill and a quick swipe at
>> lapping the sole with a sharpening stone and now it's making big fat
>> curlies. WHEEEEEEEE!!!!!
>
>OK, so I have a milling machine, are you saying you've used one for
>getting a plane close to ready? How would I clamp the darn thing?
clamping was half of the time ; ^ )
for the 80, there wasnt much to grab. I cut a block of wood in half at
the angle of the "frog" and sandwiched the "frog" between the halves.
I had to rout relief and shave clearance for various bosses and lumps,
but once I did that it was a decent fit. I used the center thumbscrew
threaded hole to bolt one side of the block to the scraper and a bar
clamp to hold the other half of the block in. then I clamped the whole
thing down to the mill table with the mill dogs.
for a plane with square sides I'd grab it in the mill vise by the
sides (cheeks?)
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 22:08:25 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>Anybody here have a stock blade you could mike and let me
>know how thick it is?
0.042" -- an old Sweetheart, and a new English one.
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 07:14:58 -0600, Conan the Librarian wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>> so I'm having a difficult time keeping it from chattering. it's an older
>> late style #80 with a lot of wear I got offa ebay with no blade. I made
>> one from stock I had on hand, it's 0.057 saw blade stock, which I
>> figured would be plenty thick enough for the application, but it's not
>> working. Anybody here have a stock blade you could mike and let me know
>> how thick it is?
>
> That sounds plenty thick for the blade.
FWIW, Hock #80 blades are a full 1/16" thick. Presumably to help reduce
chatter. I haven't had a chance to try mine out yet, though.
--
Joe Wells
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 07:14:58 -0600, Conan the Librarian
<[email protected]> wrote:
>[email protected] wrote:
>
>> so I'm having a difficult time keeping it from chattering. it's an
>> older late style #80 with a lot of wear I got offa ebay with no blade.
>> I made one from stock I had on hand, it's 0.057 saw blade stock, which
>> I figured would be plenty thick enough for the application, but it's
>> not working. Anybody here have a stock blade you could mike and let me
>> know how thick it is?
>
> That sounds plenty thick for the blade.
>
>> I've tried a bunch of different grind angles, amounts of blade showing
>> and agressivenesses of hook, but no joy. what gives?
>
> Usually when I get chatter, it's because I have too much blade
>exposed.
that I would have expected. I can adjust it back until it doesn't cut
at all, the start advancing it in tiny increments until it just barely
hits the wood- taking off basically nothing- and it's already
chattering. AAARRRRGGGGHHHH.
> Also, it could be that you're not maintaining enough downward
>pressure so the scraper sole isn't staying in close enough contact with
>the wood (this would actually be "skipping" vs. "chattering", but the
>end-result can appear similar).
this is possible, I suppose. I'll pay better attention next time. just
how much downward pressure is needed? more than a card scraper? less?
>
> FWIW, you might want to try using it without any hook at all to see
>if it works better. It will tend to cut less aggressively, and if you
>find it works, then you can gradually add a bit of a hook to it and test
>it along the way to see if there is a point at which it no longer works.
> That gives you something to aim for the next time you prepare the edge.
>
>
> Chuck Vance
thanks.
I assume you mean with the edge stoned at 45° and no hook rolled. I'll
try that.