I'm going to be painting a circa-1890 brick home that is currently
painted, but peeling. Anyone have any opinions about "elastomeric"
paint? What's the best way to prep the brick? Power washer? Sand
blast? Wire brush? I want to do a good job, but I don't want to
damage what I've heard is "soft" brick and mortar since it's so old.
Any thoughts will be appreciated.
JP
On May 25, 2:24=A0am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On May 24, 8:19=A0pm, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > You may have a big surprise waiting for you.
>
> > Before I did anything, I'd check to see if existing paint is lead
> > based.
>
> > If so, you're looking at a HazMat company to come in and remove old
> > paint.$$$$$
>
> Lew is right. =A0No doubt that if the brick has been painted a few times
> at least one or two coats will be lead based.
>
> I know you are supposed to have hazmat remove loose chips and debris,
> but don't know anyone around here that does that.
>
> We power wash with a light detergent/mold killer in the stream, then
> rinse. =A0Then we let the surfaces dry. =A0After they dry you have to
> scrape off the remaining chips. =A0By keeping them in chip form, the
> lead paint stays manageable, and you can use a lawn vacuum to pick up
> every last piece.
>
> But if you sand, that's different. =A0Just sanding the surfaces even is
> too much lead paint dust. =A0That is a different subject, see Lew's
> comment.
>
> After power washing you will probably have a bit of a rough surface,
> but if you meticulously get the loose stuff off with a hand scraper it
> will still paint.
>
> We don't full power wash as >> I << have blown apart soft bricks,
> blown out soft mortar, and etched too many surfaces. =A0We just lightly
> rinse to remove dirt. =A0Never sand blast or wire brush as you will
> damage the century old brick and mortar. =A0In our older sections of
> town that are recognized as "historic", they will not let you use a
> mechanical device to prep the surface outside of a soft power washer
> fopr that very reason.
>
> When we do any brick surface, we point up the cracks in brick and
> mortar both with NP1, which is a butyl based elastomeric UV-resistant
> stuff we buy at the roofing supply house. =A0It is the best sealer/caulk
> of its type. =A0It is the only really elastic caulk I have found, and it
> works wonders on moving brick that changes positions with the
> seasons. =A0Paintable too, =A0after 2 - 3 days to cure out. =A0We never
> point up with mortar.
>
> Elastomeric paints work well if you keep them in the context in which
> they were designed to perform. =A0They will span small cracks, hairline
> cracks, tiny bits of face cracking, etc., well, but won't replace
> caulk.
>
> I like to use them on sun beaten wood surfaces as they will fill in
> hairline surface cracks after a couple of coats. =A0Don't make the
> mistake of thinking the paint will fill in anything more than a thick
> hair on a vertical surface. =A0It will do better than that on a
> horizontal surface, but that won't help you on your wall.
>
> As a suggestion, ask your paint dealer for a product called "block
> fill". =A0We used to use that in our commercial days, and it is almost
> all solids in a white paint/primer carrier and is used to fill
> concrete block surfaces before you paint them. =A0You have seen this
> product wherever you have seen nicely sealed and painted block walls
> on municipal buildings, etc.
>
> Apply the block fill to the brick and prepped surface, then two coats
> of finish on top of that. =A0You will get years and years out of that
> new surface.
>
> Robert
Thanks much for the info Robert, Lew, et al. Sorry I forgot to put
"OT" in the subject line. I might have to replace some of the old
wood trim though, so maybe you'll give me a pass.
Just back from a big install in Kentucky. Whooo-eee is it hot and
humid there already.
JP
"Jay Pique" wrote:
> I'm going to be painting a circa-1890 brick home that is currently
> painted, but peeling. Anyone have any opinions about "elastomeric"
> paint? What's the best way to prep the brick? Power washer? Sand
> blast? Wire brush? I want to do a good job, but I don't want to
> damage what I've heard is "soft" brick and mortar since it's so old.
> Any thoughts will be appreciated.
-------------------------------------
You may have a big surprise waiting for you.
Before I did anything, I'd check to see if existing paint is lead
based.
If so, you're looking at a HazMat company to come in and remove old
paint.$$$$$
Lew
<[email protected]> wrote:
Lew is right. No doubt that if the brick has been painted a few times
at least one or two coats will be lead based.
I know you are supposed to have hazmat remove loose chips and debris,
but don't know anyone around here that does that.
--------------------------------------
Having had to deal with regulatory agencies (SCAQMD) who have a
ability to access fines as they see fit, it's a risk I not be willing
to take.
A telephone call from a neighbor or a disgruntled customer to OSHA and
you are toast.
The benefit is simply not worth the risk IMHO.
OTOH, YMMV.
Lew
On Tue, 25 May 2010 00:42:35 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote the following:
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Lew is right. No doubt that if the brick has been painted a few times
>at least one or two coats will be lead based.
>
>I know you are supposed to have hazmat remove loose chips and debris,
>but don't know anyone around here that does that.
>--------------------------------------
>Having had to deal with regulatory agencies (SCAQMD) who have a
>ability to access fines as they see fit, it's a risk I not be willing
>to take.
>
>A telephone call from a neighbor or a disgruntled customer to OSHA and
>you are toast.
>
>The benefit is simply not worth the risk IMHO.
>
>OTOH, YMMV.
One of my clients with rental units is merely painting over the old
paint rather than disturbing anything which may turn out to be
lead-based. You can futz with up to 25 s/f of paint before needing to
do the plastic and haz-mat bullshit. Needless bureaucracy, IMO.
My business will either do paintovers or no painting in the future if
it turns out to contain lead. 'taint worth it. I refuse go get caught
anywhere near the lead/asbestos/mercury/carbon bullshit parade,
thankyouverymuch.
---------------------------------------------------
I drive way too fast to worry about my cholesterol.
---------------------------------------------------
"Jay Pique" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:a5315904-6dc4-43b0-8b08-a9d0516e6d1a@e21g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
> I'm going to be painting a circa-1890 brick home that is currently
> painted, but peeling. Anyone have any opinions about "elastomeric"
> paint? What's the best way to prep the brick? Power washer? Sand
> blast? Wire brush? I want to do a good job, but I don't want to
> damage what I've heard is "soft" brick and mortar since it's so old.
> Any thoughts will be appreciated.
>
> JP
As mentioned by HeyBub, you may want to look into a quality "brick primer".
Moisture that gets into the brick can cause paint to peel.
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Jay Pique" wrote:
>
>> I'm going to be painting a circa-1890 brick home that is currently
>> painted, but peeling. Anyone have any opinions about "elastomeric"
>> paint? What's the best way to prep the brick? Power washer? Sand
>> blast? Wire brush? I want to do a good job, but I don't want to
>> damage what I've heard is "soft" brick and mortar since it's so old.
>> Any thoughts will be appreciated.
> -------------------------------------
> You may have a big surprise waiting for you.
>
> Before I did anything, I'd check to see if existing paint is lead
> based.
>
> If so, you're looking at a HazMat company to come in and remove old
> paint.$$$$$
I. While ignorance of the law is no excuse, ignorance of the facts often is.
If you test for lead, you are no longer ignorant of the facts.
II. If the old paint peels, the new paint may very well also.
On May 24, 8:19=A0pm, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> You may have a big surprise waiting for you.
>
> Before I did anything, I'd check to see if existing paint is lead
> based.
>
> If so, you're looking at a HazMat company to come in and remove old
> paint.$$$$$
Lew is right. No doubt that if the brick has been painted a few times
at least one or two coats will be lead based.
I know you are supposed to have hazmat remove loose chips and debris,
but don't know anyone around here that does that.
We power wash with a light detergent/mold killer in the stream, then
rinse. Then we let the surfaces dry. After they dry you have to
scrape off the remaining chips. By keeping them in chip form, the
lead paint stays manageable, and you can use a lawn vacuum to pick up
every last piece.
But if you sand, that's different. Just sanding the surfaces even is
too much lead paint dust. That is a different subject, see Lew's
comment.
After power washing you will probably have a bit of a rough surface,
but if you meticulously get the loose stuff off with a hand scraper it
will still paint.
We don't full power wash as >> I << have blown apart soft bricks,
blown out soft mortar, and etched too many surfaces. We just lightly
rinse to remove dirt. Never sand blast or wire brush as you will
damage the century old brick and mortar. In our older sections of
town that are recognized as "historic", they will not let you use a
mechanical device to prep the surface outside of a soft power washer
fopr that very reason.
When we do any brick surface, we point up the cracks in brick and
mortar both with NP1, which is a butyl based elastomeric UV-resistant
stuff we buy at the roofing supply house. It is the best sealer/caulk
of its type. It is the only really elastic caulk I have found, and it
works wonders on moving brick that changes positions with the
seasons. Paintable too, after 2 - 3 days to cure out. We never
point up with mortar.
Elastomeric paints work well if you keep them in the context in which
they were designed to perform. They will span small cracks, hairline
cracks, tiny bits of face cracking, etc., well, but won't replace
caulk.
I like to use them on sun beaten wood surfaces as they will fill in
hairline surface cracks after a couple of coats. Don't make the
mistake of thinking the paint will fill in anything more than a thick
hair on a vertical surface. It will do better than that on a
horizontal surface, but that won't help you on your wall.
As a suggestion, ask your paint dealer for a product called "block
fill". We used to use that in our commercial days, and it is almost
all solids in a white paint/primer carrier and is used to fill
concrete block surfaces before you paint them. You have seen this
product wherever you have seen nicely sealed and painted block walls
on municipal buildings, etc.
Apply the block fill to the brick and prepped surface, then two coats
of finish on top of that. You will get years and years out of that
new surface.
Robert