Cherry/Lacewood Side Table

On 7/3/2013 1:46 PM, [email protected] wrote:

>>
>>
>>
>>> Most woodworkers despise tilting their blade.
>>
>>>
>>
>> Well I will agree that many do but that is all in learning how to set
>>
>> the saw up so that you can trust its settings and stops. Personally I
>>
>> despise using chamfer bits on my router table. Too much set up time
>>
>> vs, tilting my blade.
>
> Which is exactly why I didn't use a chamfer bit. Tilting the router fence and using a straight bit is much faster (In my experience) than tilting and re-aligning a fence. And an insignificant point to pick on. Agree?
>
>

LOL, I hope you meant to say,

Tilting the router fence and using a straight bit is much faster (In my
experience) than tilting and re-aligning a "blade".


We work with the methods that we get the best results.
I have been down the road you are going. You will be a much better
woodworker because of that, years down the road. You experiment, you
learn. You obviously put a great deal of thought into your tilting
router fence. You see value in using the fence that way. We were just
kicking around different methods of how we would have done some things
differently, you can learn from that. Perhaps you will realize What
tolerances are acceptable/noticeable and which are not. Some times
being AR gets in the way of efficiency, I am an expert on that. ;~)

Swingman and have built several kitchen in the past. In his shop he
cuts dado's in the backs of the rails and stiles for the face frames and
assembles the face frames. In my I cut the panels from the sheet goods
which will fit into those dado's in the back of the face frames, and the
sheet goods get dado's also. Eventually we bring all of the face frames
and cabinets panels together and assemble the cabinets. We have to
trust out machinery for the parts to fit perfectly every time.
So in that example being equally AR is a good thing. ;~)

Keep the imagination going! When I was 19 years old I had been
interested in wood working for half my life. I was self taught and at
that age designed and build a "contraption" that had a back fence to
place my wood against and it had an adjustable height moveable fence
that pivoted 180 degrees. The adjustable fence sat on top of the wood
and acted as a guide for my circular saw. Basically I was trying to
duplicate how a RAS operated. It worked great. That was 1974, long
before SCMS existed.

On Tuesday, July 2, 2013 6:03:11 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>=20
> > On Tuesday, July 2, 2013 12:41:12 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>=20
> >> On 7/2/2013 10:59 AM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >>>=20
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >>>>=20
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >>>> This was the best you could offer to demonstrate your sole-full and
>=20
> >>>> imaginative workmanship? LOL
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >>>>=20
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >>>>=20
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >>>=20
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >>> Rats, I never could figure out how to reliably get to the fricking AB=
PW
>=20
> >>> so I'll just have to take others word that Mr. Tommyboy's work is cra=
p, as I expected.
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >>>=20
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >> No, actually what he posted is pretty darn good, especially the Sam=20
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >> Maloof style chair.
>=20
> >=20
>=20
> > Unfortunately attempting to copy Sam Maloof doesn't demonstrate
>=20
> > imagination. It is one of the MOST copied chair styles as demonstrated =
by
>=20
> > visiting any woodworking forum on the internet. It's so over done it
>=20
> > borders on boredom. And it was a swing and a miss per the points I mad=
e.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Still it took a skill level and attention to detail that is beyond many
>=20
> here. =20

He stated that mu piece was "unimaginative, soul-less". Again, there is NO =
imagination used in copying another artist. I expected to see him show pro=
jects which demonstrated imagination. He showed nothing of the sort. Keep=
in mind that he has the opportunity to show his best work. I was far from=
impressed and from his 'mouth-off' I expected much more.=20



>He was a bit harsh in his opening statement concerning your table,
>=20
> hell I am probably the most guilty for doing that, but he voiced his
>=20
> opinion as you had asked. If the kitchen is too hot..... =20


Yes I asked for criticism. As I said above - he could have expressed what =
he liked and didn't like w/o the 'high school workmanship' - like commentar=
y. Agree?=20



> And I sorta
>=20
> went to your defense by requesting that he show his work, he did and it
>=20
> appears that he has been at this for quite some time.

I disagree. His craftsmanship is below average at best. =20

On Wednesday, July 3, 2013 4:43:07 PM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > You are incredibly hung up on "experience". That's twice you've used
>
> > this one. As a Ph.D. chemist I have met some incredibly bad chemists
>
> > that had more "experience" than me. And I have met M.S. level chemists
>
> > that have rocked my world. It's meaningless and arbitrary and I don't
>
> > understand your attraction to it.
>
>
>
> You have a doctoral degree in chemistry and you sought donations (here)
>
> to buy a video camera for your web site? Gee, that's pretty close to
>
> "deception by omission".

I suppose it wouldn't make a difference if you knew I've been out of work since last December eh?

Go lick a boot.

On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 18:17:05 -0700 (PDT), [email protected]
wrote:

>I recently finished a side table and I filmed the build process if you're interested in watching.
>
>This was my first time using lacewood and I was happy with how easily it worked for such a highly figured wood.
>
>Criticism ok.
>
>Pictures: Bottom right titled "Side Table in Cherry/Lacewood" (three pictures)
>http://www.garagewoodworks.com/projectspage1.php
>
>Video:
>Pt 1 http://www.garagewoodworks.com/video.php?video=v89
>Pt 2 http://www.garagewoodworks.com/video.php?video=v90
>Pt 3 http://www.garagewoodworks.com/video.php?video=v91

Well, let the flames begin, but Brian, that design is one of the most
unimaginative, soul-less designs I've ever seen. Now please don't take
this personally because your workmanship is impeccable as is your
choice of woods, but they are both wasted on this high school woodshop
project.

t

<[email protected]> wrote:
> I recently finished a side table and I filmed the build process if you're
> interested in watching.
>
> This was my first time using lacewood and I was happy with how easily it
> worked for such a highly figured wood.
>
> Criticism ok.
>
> Pictures: Bottom right titled "Side Table in Cherry/Lacewood" (three pictures)
> http://www.garagewoodworks.com/projectspage1.php
>
> Video:
> Pt 1 http://www.garagewoodworks.com/video.php?video=v89
> Pt 2 http://www.garagewoodworks.com/video.php?video=v90
> Pt 3 http://www.garagewoodworks.com/video.php?video=v91

Very nice and I like your wooden pull. Did you make that too? And Is it
just the lighting in the picture that makes that second top board to appear
with so much contrast to the other top boards?

tommyboy <[email protected]> wrote:
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> I recently finished a side table and I filmed the build process if you're
>>> interested in watching.
>>>
>>> This was my first time using lacewood and I was happy with how easily it
>>> worked for such a highly figured wood.
>>>
>>> Criticism ok.
>>>
>>> Pictures: Bottom right titled "Side Table in Cherry/Lacewood" (three pictures)
>>> http://www.garagewoodworks.com/projectspage1.php
>>>
>
>
> Wasted enough time on this so here's my final comment. You expect some
> fool to give you $1,200. for that "table?" You'd be lucky to get $120.
> What color is the sky on your planet??

Now play nice. I can assure you that there are a lot of people that will
pay a very large sum of money for a piece, especially if it fits a specific
need. Been there done that..

<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 2, 2013 12:41:12 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>> On 7/2/2013 10:59 AM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> This was the best you could offer to demonstrate your sole-full and
>>>> imaginative workmanship? LOL
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Rats, I never could figure out how to reliably get to the fricking ABPW
>>> so I'll just have to take others word that Mr. Tommyboy's work is crap, as I expected.
>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> No, actually what he posted is pretty darn good, especially the Sam
>>
>> Maloof style chair.
>
> Unfortunately attempting to copy Sam Maloof doesn't demonstrate
> imagination. It is one of the MOST copied chair styles as demonstrated by
> visiting any woodworking forum on the internet. It's so over done it
> borders on boredom. And it was a swing and a miss per the points I made.

Still it took a skill level and attention to detail that is beyond many
here. He was a bit harsh in his opening statement concerning your table,
hell I am probably the most guilty for doing that, but he voiced his
opinion as you had asked. If the kitchen is too hot..... And I sorta
went to your defense by requesting that he show his work, he did and it
appears that he has been at this for quite some time.

On Tue, 2 Jul 2013 07:38:10 -0700 (PDT), [email protected]
wrote:

>On Tuesday, July 2, 2013 9:58:25 AM UTC-4, tommyboy wrote:
>> On Mon, 01 Jul 2013 19:49:54 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >On 7/1/2013 3:22 PM, tommyboy wrote:
>>
>> >> On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 18:17:05 -0700 (PDT), [email protected]
>>
>>
>>
>> >> Well, let the flames begin, but Brian, that design is one of the most
>>
>> >> unimaginative, soul-less designs I've ever seen. Now please don't take
>>
>> >> this personally because your workmanship is impeccable as is your
>>
>> >> choice of woods, but they are both wasted on this high school woodshop
>>
>> >> project.
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >> t
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >
>>
>> >Could you show us some examples of your work?
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes I could. A.B.P.W.
>
>Let me start. By the way I hope these aren't your best pieces.
>
>Your chair with the scrollsaw work is very high-school woodshop. The pattern you chose is very boreing and unimaginative. It has no sole. It looks very 2-dimensional with the straight faced sides and rails. The two species rail used in the headrest looks badly out of place. The cushion fabric makes me want to vomit. There is nothing special about it.
>
>Very poor grain match in the carved chair back rail. It's very distracting. The arm resets look like they'd be very uncomfortable the way they jet upwards. The legs are too thin for the piece and don't fit with the scale. They look like they are ready to snap.
>
>The crib is extremely country - not my taste at all. Very boring and unimaginative. There is absolutely nothing special about this piece either. The turnings are very dry and you also have a few that have bad color match.
>
>
>
>This was the best you could offer to demonstrate your sole-full and imaginative workmanship? LOL
>
>Son, I am your Yoda Master if this is your best work. Now have a seat.

Hahahahaha!

On Tuesday, July 2, 2013 7:42:38 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> On 7/2/2013 5:14 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>=20
> > On Tuesday, July 2, 2013 6:03:11 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>=20
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>> On Tuesday, July 2, 2013 12:41:12 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>> On 7/2/2013 10:59 AM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>>> This was the best you could offer to demonstrate your sole-full an=
d
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>>> imaginative workmanship? LOL
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>> Rats, I never could figure out how to reliably get to the fricking =
ABPW
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>> so I'll just have to take others word that Mr. Tommyboy's work is c=
rap, as I expected.
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>> No, actually what he posted is pretty darn good, especially the Sam
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>> Maloof style chair.
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>> Unfortunately attempting to copy Sam Maloof doesn't demonstrate
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>> imagination. It is one of the MOST copied chair styles as demonstrate=
d by
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>> visiting any woodworking forum on the internet. It's so over done it
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>> borders on boredom. And it was a swing and a miss per the points I m=
ade.
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> Still it took a skill level and attention to detail that is beyond man=
y
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> here.
>=20
> >
>=20
> > He stated that mu piece was "unimaginative, soul-less". Again, there is=
NO imagination used in copying another artist. I expected to see him show=
projects which demonstrated imagination. He showed nothing of the sort. =
Keep in mind that he has the opportunity to show his best work. I was far =
from impressed and from his 'mouth-off' I expected much more.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> You asked for criticism, he did not. I asked for examples of his work,=
=20
>=20
> you did not but you did take an opportunity to "get back at him" when he=
=20
>=20
> did show that he was quite accomplished.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> >
>=20
> >> He was a bit harsh in his opening statement concerning your table,
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> hell I am probably the most guilty for doing that, but he voiced his
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> opinion as you had asked. If the kitchen is too hot.....
>=20
> >
>=20
> >
>=20
> > Yes I asked for criticism. As I said above - he could have expressed w=
hat he liked and didn't like w/o the 'high school workmanship' - like comme=
ntary. Agree?
>=20
> >
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Totally agree, that was harsh. you should have ignored it, especially=20
>=20
> since you were asking for criticism.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> But then you fired back,
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Everyone has their own taste as to what they find appealing in a piece=20
>=20
> of furniture. I'm sure you could have expressed your taste and dislikes=
=20
>=20
> w/o actually sounding like a high-school'er in the process, but you=20
>=20
> chose not to and thus your comments reflect more on your character than=
=20
>=20
> on my craftsmanship. The random mindless/thoughtless comment are what=20
>=20
> I've come to expect at the wrec so no harm done.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> So what I see her are two personalities that are very much the same.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> >
>=20
> >
>=20
> >> And I sorta
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> went to your defense by requesting that he show his work, he did and i=
t
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> appears that he has been at this for quite some time.
>=20
> >
>=20
> > I disagree. His craftsmanship is below average at best.
>=20
> >
>=20
>=20
>=20
> You have not been at this long enough to know.

No. I can smell crap when it's in front of me. Takes no amount of experie=
nce.

On Wednesday, July 3, 2013 3:10:45 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> On 7/3/2013 1:46 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>> Most woodworkers despise tilting their blade.
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> Well I will agree that many do but that is all in learning how to set
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> the saw up so that you can trust its settings and stops. Personally I
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> despise using chamfer bits on my router table. Too much set up time
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> vs, tilting my blade.
>=20
> >
>=20
> > Which is exactly why I didn't use a chamfer bit. Tilting the router fe=
nce and using a straight bit is much faster (In my experience) than tilting=
and re-aligning a fence. And an insignificant point to pick on. Agree?
>=20
> >
>=20
> >
>=20
>=20
>=20
> LOL, I hope you meant to say,
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Tilting the router fence and using a straight bit is much faster (In my=
=20
>=20
> experience) than tilting and re-aligning a "blade".

Yes. I caught it after I hit send.

I'm going to end this here, unless someone really provokes me :) and say th=
at the reason that I keep coming back to the wrec. (around 9-10 years ago =
I started posting - yeah!) is because I value yours, Swingman's and a few o=
ther's input. I should have ignored the mud throwing (which in my opinion w=
asn't constructive criticism or useful in any way - maybe I should have bee=
n more specific?). =20

I'll be back! :)





>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> We work with the methods that we get the best results.
>=20
> I have been down the road you are going. You will be a much better=20
>=20
> woodworker because of that, years down the road. You experiment, you=20
>=20
> learn. You obviously put a great deal of thought into your tilting=20
>=20
> router fence. You see value in using the fence that way. We were just=
=20
>=20
> kicking around different methods of how we would have done some things=20
>=20
> differently, you can learn from that. Perhaps you will realize What=20
>=20
> tolerances are acceptable/noticeable and which are not. Some times=20
>=20
> being AR gets in the way of efficiency, I am an expert on that. ;~)
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Swingman and have built several kitchen in the past. In his shop he=20
>=20
> cuts dado's in the backs of the rails and stiles for the face frames and=
=20
>=20
> assembles the face frames. In my I cut the panels from the sheet goods=
=20
>=20
> which will fit into those dado's in the back of the face frames, and the=
=20
>=20
> sheet goods get dado's also. Eventually we bring all of the face frames=
=20
>=20
> and cabinets panels together and assemble the cabinets. We have to=20
>=20
> trust out machinery for the parts to fit perfectly every time.
>=20
> So in that example being equally AR is a good thing. ;~)
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Keep the imagination going! When I was 19 years old I had been=20
>=20
> interested in wood working for half my life. I was self taught and at=20
>=20
> that age designed and build a "contraption" that had a back fence to=20
>=20
> place my wood against and it had an adjustable height moveable fence=20
>=20
> that pivoted 180 degrees. The adjustable fence sat on top of the wood=20
>=20
> and acted as a guide for my circular saw. Basically I was trying to=20
>=20
> duplicate how a RAS operated. It worked great. That was 1974, long=20
>=20
> before SCMS existed.

><[email protected]> wrote:
>> I recently finished a side table and I filmed the build process if you're
>> interested in watching.
>>
>> This was my first time using lacewood and I was happy with how easily it
>> worked for such a highly figured wood.
>>
>> Criticism ok.
>>
>> Pictures: Bottom right titled "Side Table in Cherry/Lacewood" (three pictures)
>> http://www.garagewoodworks.com/projectspage1.php
>>


Wasted enough time on this so here's my final comment. You expect some
fool to give you $1,200. for that "table?" You'd be lucky to get $120.
What color is the sky on your planet??

On Tuesday, July 2, 2013 2:40:01 PM UTC-4, tommyboy wrote:
> ><[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> I recently finished a side table and I filmed the build process if you're
>
> >> interested in watching.
>
> >>
>
> >> This was my first time using lacewood and I was happy with how easily it
>
> >> worked for such a highly figured wood.
>
> >>
>
> >> Criticism ok.
>
> >>
>
> >> Pictures: Bottom right titled "Side Table in Cherry/Lacewood" (three pictures)
>
> >> http://www.garagewoodworks.com/projectspage1.php
>
> >>
>
>
>
>
>
> Wasted enough time on this so here's my final comment. You expect some
>
> fool to give you $1,200. for that "table?" You'd be lucky to get $120.
>
> What color is the sky on your planet??

You felt so insecure about yourself after I ripped on your projects that you felt the need to browse around my website.

I've come across your type before. You've probably been to my website in the past. And I'm guessing that your initial tantrum has more to do with jealousy than an honest critique of my projects.

On 7/2/2013 10:59 AM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>
>>
>> This was the best you could offer to demonstrate your sole-full and imaginative workmanship? LOL
>>
>>
>
> Rats, I never could figure out how to reliably get to the fricking ABPW so I'll just have to take others word that Mr. Tommyboy's work is crap, as I expected.
>


No, actually what he posted is pretty darn good, especially the Sam
Maloof style chair.

On 7/3/2013 1:48 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 3, 2013 2:34:47 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:


Snip


>>>> The right middle top board here.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> It's all in how the light hits the wood. It is a very pleasing top to look at.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am sure it looks great but that first picture was not as flattering as
>>
>> the current.
>
> I have a few of myself that are like that.
>


LOL... Do you recall the first time I think I pissed you off? ;~)

You wee proudly showing off one of your earlier projects and along side
the project there you stood. I asked if your wife insisted on you being
in the shot. LOL

To this day I hate being in pictures of my finished work. I want the
audience to focus on what is important in the picture.

Now having said that, about 18 months ago Nailshooter, Swingman and
their significant others were at our house visiting at Christmas time.
Nailshooter took what I considered an embarrassing number of detailed,
up close, and personal pictures of the "big pantry cabinet" that I had
just completed. He insisted in me being in one of those pictures.

And now that I have mentioned this and if he sees this post I can
probably expect to see him post that picture. ;~(

<[email protected]> wrote ...
> I recently finished a side table and I filmed the build process if you're
> interested in watching.
>
> This was my first time using lacewood and I was happy with how easily it
> worked for such a highly figured wood.
>
Looks nice. I have seen lacewood before.

How durable/hard is it? Also how expensive is it?

<[email protected]> wrote:

Yes I asked for criticism.
-----------------------------------------
You may mouth the words, but you definitely are not interested in
receiving the criticism.

This is not the first time you have lost it when someone has offered a
criticism of your work that you have requested.

Have a beer and smell the roses before you pop a blood vessel.

Lew

RE: Subject

If you want to show your woodworking skills, that's one thing.

If you want to shill for Disney as the price of admission to view your
work,

then perform aerial intercourse on a rotating annular spheroid.

Lew

"Leon" <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote
>
> To this day I hate being in pictures of my finished work. I want the
> audience to focus on what is important in the picture.
>
There is the famous Leon Fat Ass Sag Test, LFAST. I understand that you
volunteered your wife for that test, but she refused. I thought it was
epic. A simple test. Will it hold me up? If so, it will not sag under
anything I place on this shelf. You can't get more basic (and pragmatic)
than that!

SonomaProducts.com wrote:

> A blade too low leads to kickback? That's news to me.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Leon" wrote:

> Kickback occurs when for some reason the leading edge or underside
> of the board catches a tooth on the blade. This can be caused by the
> wood pinching between the bade and fence for various reasons such as
> bad feed method, stressed wood, expanding wood from blade heat, etc.
> If the blade is low it is easier for the rising wood to get over top
> of the blade and missile into your crotch in a literal millisecond,
> maybe bringing a few fingers along with it if your real unlucky.
>>
>> Yes a higher blade is safer in terms of avoiding kickback but has
>> other dangers if you don't have a proper guard system, etc.
>>
> IME raising the blade simply decreases the chance for burning. The
> lower the blade the fewer exposed teeth. It is the pinching at the
> back of the blade that starts the dangerous situation, the reason
> the riving knife is used to help prevent that.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
SFWIW, Cerritos College teaches:

TS blade exposure = material thickness being cut + max gullet depth +
1/2".

Designed to minimize injury damage.

(Need to give the surgeon something to sew back together)

A riving knife is worth it's weight in gold when it comes to
preventing kick back IMHO.

Lew

Addendum:

Should read:

TS blade exposure = material thickness being cut + max gullet depth +
1/2" MAX.

I need an editor, especially late at night.

Lew
---------------------------------------------------------
> SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>
>> A blade too low leads to kickback? That's news to me.
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> "Leon" wrote:
>
>> Kickback occurs when for some reason the leading edge or underside
>> of the board catches a tooth on the blade. This can be caused by
>> the wood pinching between the bade and fence for various reasons
>> such as bad feed method, stressed wood, expanding wood from blade
>> heat, etc. If the blade is low it is easier for the rising wood to
>> get over top of the blade and missile into your crotch in a literal
>> millisecond, maybe bringing a few fingers along with it if your
>> real unlucky.
>>>
>>> Yes a higher blade is safer in terms of avoiding kickback but has
>>> other dangers if you don't have a proper guard system, etc.
>>>
>> IME raising the blade simply decreases the chance for burning. The
>> lower the blade the fewer exposed teeth. It is the pinching at the
>> back of the blade that starts the dangerous situation, the reason
>> the riving knife is used to help prevent that.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> SFWIW, Cerritos College teaches:
>
> TS blade exposure = material thickness being cut + max gullet depth
> + 1/2".
>
> Designed to minimize injury damage.
>
> (Need to give the surgeon something to sew back together)
>
> A riving knife is worth it's weight in gold when it comes to
> preventing kick back IMHO.
>
> Lew
>
>

On Wednesday, July 3, 2013 2:17:39 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> On 7/3/2013 12:36 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>=20
> > On Wednesday, July 3, 2013 12:59:16 PM UTC-4, woodchucker wrote:
>=20
> >> On 7/3/2013 12:18 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>> Yeah, asking for criticism (quote: Criticism ok) then throwing a tem=
per
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>> tantrum when criticism is received (albeit snarky and uncalled-for c=
riticism)
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>> doesn't leave an observer with a good impression of Brian.
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>> Well, I was actually the first one who jumped in with a "Flame" for T=
ommy boy, who had actually encouraged me to do so with his comment about ex=
pecting flames for his post. Maybe I encouraged Garage boy by coming down o=
n his side, which isn't always the case, I have trashed his stuff before as=
well.
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>> Tommy has the right to his opinion, and criticism was requested but I=
felt it was over the top in terms of harshness (is that a word?)and more d=
enigrating than necessary so I jumped in to provide some defense, assuming=
Garage boy would likely not.
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>> I never did see Tommy's work (can't see fricking ABPW via my Google r=
eader) and I loved Sam Maloof, he was a sweet and talented man and I learne=
d a few things from him over the years but I have no love for that swoopy d=
esign type stuff so likely would be unimpressed.
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> I don't look at workmanship based on my taste, I look at it purely as
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> what went into it.
>=20
> >
>=20
> > Donkey sh*t. You judge "what went into it" based on your taste.
>=20
> >
>=20
> >
>=20
> >> Tommy Boy produced some nice work.
>=20
> >
>=20
> > I am confident that he presented what was his hand picked favorites. I =
found them to be weak and uninspiring. His best of the bunch was the Maloo=
f knock-off chair but this didn't demonstrate the very trait that he crappe=
d on me for. Being "unimaginative".
>=20
> >
>=20
> >
>=20
> >> I was not impressed by Brian's work, there were a few things that I
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> found out of place, the lacewood was beautiful, but not well done, sin=
ce
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> the glue up put a piece that distracted..
>=20
> >
>=20
> >
>=20
> > Now were getting somewhere. Actual useful criticism.
>=20
> >
>=20
> > Could you point out the board you find distracting? Below is a picture =
of the top:
>=20
> >
>=20
> > http://www.garagewoodworks.com/pictures/side_table/002.jpg
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> To easily understand, you would need to repost the original picture, the=
=20
>=20
> one that this link has replaced.=20

Like I told you when you originally asked - it was an artifact of the photo=
graphy. =20

Nothing wrong with the top. It is very pleasing to look at.

> But it shows up better in the first=20
>=20
> video opening shot below.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> The right middle top board here.

It's all in how the light hits the wood. It is a very pleasing top to look=
at.

>=20
>=20
>=20
> http://www.garagewoodworks.com/video.php?video=3Dv91

On Tue, 2 Jul 2013 08:59:06 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>>
>> This was the best you could offer to demonstrate your sole-full and imaginative workmanship? LOL
>>
>>
>
>Rats, I never could figure out how to reliably get to the fricking ABPW so I'll just have to take others word that Mr. Tommyboy's work is crap, as I expected.

Ignorance is bliss.

On Tuesday, July 2, 2013 10:54:07 AM UTC-4, tommyboy wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Jul 2013 07:38:10 -0700 (PDT), [email protected]
>=20
> wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> >On Tuesday, July 2, 2013 9:58:25 AM UTC-4, tommyboy wrote:
>=20
> >> On Mon, 01 Jul 2013 19:49:54 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >> wrote:
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >> >On 7/1/2013 3:22 PM, tommyboy wrote:
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >> >> On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 18:17:05 -0700 (PDT), [email protected]
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >> >> Well, let the flames begin, but Brian, that design is one of the mo=
st
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >> >> unimaginative, soul-less designs I've ever seen. Now please don't t=
ake
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >> >> this personally because your workmanship is impeccable as is your
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >> >> choice of woods, but they are both wasted on this high school woods=
hop
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >> >> project.
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >> >>
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >> >> t
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >> >>
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >> >
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >> >Could you show us some examples of your work?
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >> Yes I could. A.B.P.W.
>=20
> >
>=20
> >Let me start. By the way I hope these aren't your best pieces.=20
>=20
> >
>=20
> >Your chair with the scrollsaw work is very high-school woodshop. The pa=
ttern you chose is very boreing and unimaginative. It has no sole. It look=
s very 2-dimensional with the straight faced sides and rails. The two speci=
es rail used in the headrest looks badly out of place. The cushion fabric m=
akes me want to vomit. There is nothing special about it.
>=20
> >
>=20
> >Very poor grain match in the carved chair back rail. It's very distracti=
ng. The arm resets look like they'd be very uncomfortable the way they jet =
upwards. The legs are too thin for the piece and don't fit with the scale. =
They look like they are ready to snap.
>=20
> >
>=20
> >The crib is extremely country - not my taste at all. Very boring and un=
imaginative. There is absolutely nothing special about this piece either. =
The turnings are very dry and you also have a few that have bad color matc=
h.
>=20
> >
>=20
> >
>=20
> >
>=20
> >This was the best you could offer to demonstrate your sole-full and imag=
inative workmanship? LOL
>=20
> >=20
>=20
> >Son, I am your Yoda Master if this is your best work. Now have a seat.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Sounds as though you're describing your own work..............

You did more damage to yourself with your ABPW post than any zinger I could=
send your way in retort :)

>=20
> Yeah, asking for criticism (quote: Criticism ok) then throwing a temper
>=20
> tantrum when criticism is received (albeit snarky and uncalled-for critic=
ism)
>=20
> doesn't leave an observer with a good impression of Brian.
>=20
>=20

Well, I was actually the first one who jumped in with a "Flame" for Tommy b=
oy, who had actually encouraged me to do so with his comment about expectin=
g flames for his post. Maybe I encouraged Garage boy by coming down on his =
side, which isn't always the case, I have trashed his stuff before as well.

Tommy has the right to his opinion, and criticism was requested but I felt =
it was over the top in terms of harshness (is that a word?)and more denigra=
ting than necessary so I jumped in to provide some defense, assuming Garag=
e boy would likely not.

I never did see Tommy's work (can't see fricking ABPW via my Google reader)=
and I loved Sam Maloof, he was a sweet and talented man and I learned a fe=
w things from him over the years but I have no love for that swoopy design =
type stuff so likely would be unimpressed.

On Wednesday, July 3, 2013 1:25:37 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> On 7/3/2013 11:59 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>
>
>
> >
>
> > I am troubled by some of Brian's machine work, especially tablesaw work.
>
> > I keep seeing the leading edge lifting, and in my opinion, his blade is
>
> > too low, leading to some of the burning we see, and a huge potential for
>
> > kick back. I keep the blade high, except with ply to avoid the
>
> > potential, and the wood near the blade never lifts..
>
> >
>
> > As far as Brian's design, I had no problem with it, only the execution.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
> I think I would have cut the beveled edge on the TS instead of using the
>
> tilted router table fence.

Why? It may be a faster maneuver but you need to swing your blade over and re-align to 90 degrees. (Here is where you tell me you trust your positive stop and we have a lengthy discussion about sawdust gumming up the works. )

Most woodworkers despise tilting their blade.

On Wednesday, July 3, 2013 2:34:47 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> On 7/3/2013 1:22 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>=20
> > On Wednesday, July 3, 2013 2:17:39 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>=20
> >> On 7/3/2013 12:36 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>> On Wednesday, July 3, 2013 12:59:16 PM UTC-4, woodchucker wrote:
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>> On 7/3/2013 12:18 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>>> Yeah, asking for criticism (quote: Criticism ok) then throwing a t=
emper
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>>> tantrum when criticism is received (albeit snarky and uncalled-for=
criticism)
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>>> doesn't leave an observer with a good impression of Brian.
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>> Well, I was actually the first one who jumped in with a "Flame" for=
Tommy boy, who had actually encouraged me to do so with his comment about =
expecting flames for his post. Maybe I encouraged Garage boy by coming down=
on his side, which isn't always the case, I have trashed his stuff before =
as well.
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>> Tommy has the right to his opinion, and criticism was requested but=
I felt it was over the top in terms of harshness (is that a word?)and more=
denigrating than necessary so I jumped in to provide some defense, assumi=
ng Garage boy would likely not.
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>> I never did see Tommy's work (can't see fricking ABPW via my Google=
reader) and I loved Sam Maloof, he was a sweet and talented man and I lear=
ned a few things from him over the years but I have no love for that swoopy=
design type stuff so likely would be unimpressed.
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>> I don't look at workmanship based on my taste, I look at it purely a=
s
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>> what went into it.
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>> Donkey sh*t. You judge "what went into it" based on your taste.
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>> Tommy Boy produced some nice work.
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>> I am confident that he presented what was his hand picked favorites. =
I found them to be weak and uninspiring. His best of the bunch was the Mal=
oof knock-off chair but this didn't demonstrate the very trait that he crap=
ped on me for. Being "unimaginative".
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>> I was not impressed by Brian's work, there were a few things that I
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>> found out of place, the lacewood was beautiful, but not well done, s=
ince
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>> the glue up put a piece that distracted..
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>> Now were getting somewhere. Actual useful criticism.
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>> Could you point out the board you find distracting? Below is a pictur=
e of the top:
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>> http://www.garagewoodworks.com/pictures/side_table/002.jpg
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> To easily understand, you would need to repost the original picture, t=
he
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> one that this link has replaced.
>=20
> >
>=20
> > Like I told you when you originally asked - it was an artifact of the p=
hotography.
>=20
> >
>=20
> > Nothing wrong with the top. It is very pleasing to look at.
>=20
> >
>=20
> >> But it shows up better in the first
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> video opening shot below.
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> The right middle top board here.
>=20
> >
>=20
> > It's all in how the light hits the wood. It is a very pleasing top to =
look at.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> I am sure it looks great but that first picture was not as flattering as=
=20
>=20
> the current.

I have a few of myself that are like that.

On Tue, 02 Jul 2013 10:54:07 -0400, tommyboy <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Tue, 2 Jul 2013 07:38:10 -0700 (PDT), [email protected]
>wrote:
>
>>On Tuesday, July 2, 2013 9:58:25 AM UTC-4, tommyboy wrote:
>>> On Mon, 01 Jul 2013 19:49:54 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >On 7/1/2013 3:22 PM, tommyboy wrote:
>>>
>>> >> On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 18:17:05 -0700 (PDT), [email protected]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >> Well, let the flames begin, but Brian, that design is one of the most
>>>
>>> >> unimaginative, soul-less designs I've ever seen. Now please don't take
>>>
>>> >> this personally because your workmanship is impeccable as is your
>>>
>>> >> choice of woods, but they are both wasted on this high school woodshop
>>>
>>> >> project.
>>>
>>> >>
>>>
>>> >> t
>>>
>>> >>
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> >Could you show us some examples of your work?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes I could. A.B.P.W.
>>
>>Let me start. By the way I hope these aren't your best pieces.
>>
>>Your chair with the scrollsaw work is very high-school woodshop. The pattern you chose is very boreing and unimaginative. It has no sole. It looks very 2-dimensional with the straight faced sides and rails. The two species rail used in the headrest looks badly out of place. The cushion fabric makes me want to vomit. There is nothing special about it.
>>
>>Very poor grain match in the carved chair back rail. It's very distracting. The arm resets look like they'd be very uncomfortable the way they jet upwards. The legs are too thin for the piece and don't fit with the scale. They look like they are ready to snap.
>>
>>The crib is extremely country - not my taste at all. Very boring and unimaginative. There is absolutely nothing special about this piece either. The turnings are very dry and you also have a few that have bad color match.
>>
>>
>>
>>This was the best you could offer to demonstrate your sole-full and imaginative workmanship? LOL
>>
>>Son, I am your Yoda Master if this is your best work. Now have a seat.
>
>Sounds as though you're describing your own work..............

Wouldn't it have been easier to just say the design wasn't one you
have chosen instead of making it personal.

Mike M

On Sunday, June 30, 2013 9:40:39 PM UTC-4, Lee Michaels wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote ...
>
> > I recently finished a side table and I filmed the build process if you're
>
> > interested in watching.
>
> >
>
> > This was my first time using lacewood and I was happy with how easily it
>
> > worked for such a highly figured wood.
>
> >
>
> Looks nice. I have seen lacewood before.
>
>
>
> How durable/hard is it? Also how expensive is it?

I got it from Woodcraft as my lumberyard does not carry it approx $9/bdft

It seems hard enough but feels deceivingly light when held. A pleasure to work and has a strange smell when cut.

On Wednesday, July 3, 2013 2:32:11 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> On 7/3/2013 1:01 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > On Wednesday, July 3, 2013 1:25:37 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>
> >> On 7/3/2013 11:59 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>>
>
> >>
>
> >>> I am troubled by some of Brian's machine work, especially tablesaw work.
>
> >>
>
> >>> I keep seeing the leading edge lifting, and in my opinion, his blade is
>
> >>
>
> >>> too low, leading to some of the burning we see, and a huge potential for
>
> >>
>
> >>> kick back. I keep the blade high, except with ply to avoid the
>
> >>
>
> >>> potential, and the wood near the blade never lifts..
>
> >>
>
> >>>
>
> >>
>
> >>> As far as Brian's design, I had no problem with it, only the execution.
>
> >>
>
> >>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> I think I would have cut the beveled edge on the TS instead of using the
>
> >>
>
> >> tilted router table fence.
>
> >
>
> > Why? It may be a faster maneuver but you need to swing your blade over and re-align to 90 degrees. (Here is where you tell me you trust your positive stop and we have a lengthy discussion about sawdust gumming up the works. )
>
>
>
> Well in all honesty, I use a tilt box to verify that the positive stops
>
> are accurate with in .1 degrees and my rips produce square edges good
>
> enough for glue up. This was true for my old Jet cabinet saw and my new
>
> ICS SawStop.
>
>
>
>
>
> > Most woodworkers despise tilting their blade.
>
> >
>
> Well I will agree that many do but that is all in learning how to set
>
> the saw up so that you can trust its settings and stops. Personally I
>
> despise using chamfer bits on my router table. Too much set up time
>
> vs, tilting my blade.

Which is exactly why I didn't use a chamfer bit. Tilting the router fence and using a straight bit is much faster (In my experience) than tilting and re-aligning a fence. And an insignificant point to pick on. Agree?


>
>
>
> I understand your concerns, been there and done that, but I have quite a
>
> bit more experience than you and have learned over the years what works
>
> better and how to work efficiently.

You are incredibly hung up on "experience". That's twice you've used this one.

As a Ph.D. chemist I have met some incredibly bad chemists that had more "experience" than me. And I have met M.S. level chemists that have rocked my world. It's meaningless and arbitrary and I don't understand your attraction to it.

On Monday, July 1, 2013 4:22:06 PM UTC-4, tommyboy wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 18:17:05 -0700 (PDT), [email protected]
>=20
> wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> >I recently finished a side table and I filmed the build process if you'r=
e interested in watching.
>=20
> >
>=20
> >This was my first time using lacewood and I was happy with how easily it=
worked for such a highly figured wood.
>=20
> >
>=20
> >Criticism ok.
>=20
> >
>=20
> >Pictures: Bottom right titled "Side Table in Cherry/Lacewood" (three pic=
tures)
>=20
> >http://www.garagewoodworks.com/projectspage1.php
>=20
> >
>=20
> >Video:
>=20
> >Pt 1 http://www.garagewoodworks.com/video.php?video=3Dv89
>=20
> >Pt 2 http://www.garagewoodworks.com/video.php?video=3Dv90
>=20
> >Pt 3 http://www.garagewoodworks.com/video.php?video=3Dv91
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Well, let the flames begin, but Brian, that design is one of the most
>=20
> unimaginative, soul-less designs I've ever seen. Now please don't take
>=20
> this personally because your workmanship is impeccable as is your
>=20
> choice of woods, but they are both wasted on this high school woodshop
>=20
> project.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> t

While I don't agree with you, you must keep in mind that this project was d=
one as a build-a-long for my viewers. While I think the piece is beautiful=
as is and doesn't need extra embellishment, I didn't want to add extra fea=
tures that might be outside of the skill level of some of the build-a-long =
participants. =20

Everyone has their own taste as to what they find appealing in a piece of f=
urniture. I'm sure you could have expressed your taste and dislikes w/o ac=
tually sounding like a high-school'er in the process, but you chose not to =
and thus your comments reflect more on your character than on my craftsmans=
hip. The random mindless/thoughtless comment are what I've come to expect =
at the wrec so no harm done.

Cheers,
BG


>=20

For info on the build-a-long go here:
http://www.garagewoodworks.com/Forum/showthread.php?tid=3D265

>=20
>=20
>=20
> A blade too low leads to kickback? That's news to me.
>=20
>=20

Kickback occurs when for some reason the leading edge or underside of the b=
oard catches a tooth on the blade. This can be caused by the wood pinching =
between the bade and fence for various reasons such as bad feed method, str=
essed wood, expanding wood from blade heat, etc. If the blade is low it is =
easier for the rising wood to get over top of the blade and missile into yo=
ur crotch in a literal millisecond, maybe bringing a few fingers along with=
it if your real unlucky.

Yes a higher blade is safer in terms of avoiding kickback but has other dan=
gers if you don't have a proper guard system, etc.

On Wednesday, July 3, 2013 2:17:50 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
> On 7/3/2013 1:01 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > Most woodworkers despise tilting their blade.
>
>
>
> From what data did you create that "statistic/fact"????

It is admittedly a based on limited data from reading forums and commentary.

Take it for what it is but it shouldn't come as a shock.


>
>
>
> I, for one, do it quite frequently and like Leon trust the stops (and
>
> have never found reason not to).

Good on you.

>
>
>
> --

On Tuesday, July 2, 2013 9:58:25 AM UTC-4, tommyboy wrote:
> On Mon, 01 Jul 2013 19:49:54 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>=20
> wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> >On 7/1/2013 3:22 PM, tommyboy wrote:
>=20
> >> On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 18:17:05 -0700 (PDT), [email protected]
>=20
>=20
>=20
> >> Well, let the flames begin, but Brian, that design is one of the most
>=20
> >> unimaginative, soul-less designs I've ever seen. Now please don't take
>=20
> >> this personally because your workmanship is impeccable as is your
>=20
> >> choice of woods, but they are both wasted on this high school woodshop
>=20
> >> project.
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> t
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >
>=20
> >Could you show us some examples of your work?
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Yes I could. A.B.P.W.

Let me start. By the way I hope these aren't your best pieces.=20

Your chair with the scrollsaw work is very high-school woodshop. The patte=
rn you chose is very boreing and unimaginative. It has no sole. It looks v=
ery 2-dimensional with the straight faced sides and rails. The two species =
rail used in the headrest looks badly out of place. The cushion fabric make=
s me want to vomit. There is nothing special about it.

Very poor grain match in the carved chair back rail. It's very distracting.=
The arm resets look like they'd be very uncomfortable the way they jet upw=
ards. The legs are too thin for the piece and don't fit with the scale. Th=
ey look like they are ready to snap.

The crib is extremely country - not my taste at all. Very boring and unima=
ginative. There is absolutely nothing special about this piece either. Th=
e turnings are very dry and you also have a few that have bad color match.



This was the best you could offer to demonstrate your sole-full and imagina=
tive workmanship? LOL
=20
Son, I am your Yoda Master if this is your best work. Now have a seat.

>
> This was the best you could offer to demonstrate your sole-full and imaginative workmanship? LOL
>
>

Rats, I never could figure out how to reliably get to the fricking ABPW so I'll just have to take others word that Mr. Tommyboy's work is crap, as I expected.

On Wednesday, July 3, 2013 12:59:16 PM UTC-4, woodchucker wrote:
> On 7/3/2013 12:18 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>=20
> >
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> Yeah, asking for criticism (quote: Criticism ok) then throwing a tempe=
r
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> tantrum when criticism is received (albeit snarky and uncalled-for cri=
ticism)
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> doesn't leave an observer with a good impression of Brian.
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >
>=20
> > Well, I was actually the first one who jumped in with a "Flame" for Tom=
my boy, who had actually encouraged me to do so with his comment about expe=
cting flames for his post. Maybe I encouraged Garage boy by coming down on =
his side, which isn't always the case, I have trashed his stuff before as w=
ell.
>=20
> >
>=20
> > Tommy has the right to his opinion, and criticism was requested but I f=
elt it was over the top in terms of harshness (is that a word?)and more den=
igrating than necessary so I jumped in to provide some defense, assuming G=
arage boy would likely not.
>=20
> >
>=20
> > I never did see Tommy's work (can't see fricking ABPW via my Google rea=
der) and I loved Sam Maloof, he was a sweet and talented man and I learned =
a few things from him over the years but I have no love for that swoopy des=
ign type stuff so likely would be unimpressed.
>=20
> >
>=20
>=20
>=20
> I don't look at workmanship based on my taste, I look at it purely as=20
>=20
> what went into it.

Donkey sh*t. You judge "what went into it" based on your taste.


> Tommy Boy produced some nice work.

I am confident that he presented what was his hand picked favorites. I foun=
d them to be weak and uninspiring. His best of the bunch was the Maloof kn=
ock-off chair but this didn't demonstrate the very trait that he crapped on=
me for. Being "unimaginative".


> I was not impressed by Brian's work, there were a few things that I=20
>=20
> found out of place, the lacewood was beautiful, but not well done, since=
=20
>=20
> the glue up put a piece that distracted..=20


Now were getting somewhere. Actual useful criticism.

Could you point out the board you find distracting? Below is a picture of t=
he top:

http://www.garagewoodworks.com/pictures/side_table/002.jpg

>If I had no more lacewood, I=20
>=20
> would have move that to the outside where it would be less noticable=20
>=20
> instead of breaking up the pattern.

What pattern?

>=20
>=20
>=20
> I am troubled by some of Brian's machine work, especially tablesaw work.=
=20
>=20
> I keep seeing the leading edge lifting,

Again, useful criticism. Could you point out the videos and time frame whe=
re a board "lifted"? I remember a piece of ply lifting a little but nothin=
g dramatic.

> and in my opinion, his blade is=20
>=20
> too low, leading to some of the burning we see, and a huge potential for=
=20
>=20
> kick back.

A blade too low leads to kickback? That's news to me.

> I keep the blade high, except with ply to avoid the=20
>=20
> potential, and the wood near the blade never lifts..


A blade that is excessively high is more dangerous than one that is too low=
(but still cuts all the way through).=20

Could you elaborate here?


>=20
>=20
>=20
> As far as Brian's design, I had no problem with it, only the execution.

Finally a complement (I think). Thank you :)

>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --=20
>=20
> Jeff

> Well, let the flames begin, but Brian, that design is one of the most
>=20
> unimaginative, soul-less designs I've ever seen. Now please don't take
>=20
> this personally because your workmanship is impeccable as is your
>=20
> choice of woods, but they are both wasted on this high school woodshop
>=20
> project.

Tommy Boy,

Flames? Let me be the first. Apparently you have no fricking taste at all. =
This project is a classic, stickley-esque presentation of beautiful wood, e=
xcellently executed. This is soul-less? You are soul-less apparently lookin=
g only for beauty is some over adorned and tortured application of all that=
is complex.=20

Simplicity is beauty. I typically hate mixed-species wood projects. Walnut =
breadboards on a cherry table top make me puke. What we have here is an int=
elligent combination of Lace and Cherry, beautiful, simple lines, classic d=
ovetails, utilitarian yet beautiful wood pull.

It really is a shame you can't see how beautifully simple and simply beauti=
ful this piece is.

Can you please point us to the multiple pages of project pictures that you =
have that shows some of your imaginative and soul-full designs.

By the way, simple lives for ever in design. Other descriptions of imaginat=
ive and soul-full designs might be "trendy" "cliche" "crap", "WTF?", etc.

From one of my heros...
But it is true that oak, ash and elm properly treated, possess attractions =
that yield to those of no other woods. The undulations of their grain, the =
soft unobtrusive tones which they assume through skillful polish, the color=
-play which runs over their smooth surface are qualities which to be apprec=
iated need only to be fairly observed.
Gustave Stickley The Craftsman, Vol. 1, NO. 1, 1901

On 7/3/2013 2:01 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 3, 2013 1:25:37 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>> On 7/3/2013 11:59 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>> I am troubled by some of Brian's machine work, especially tablesaw work.
>>
>>> I keep seeing the leading edge lifting, and in my opinion, his blade is
>>
>>> too low, leading to some of the burning we see, and a huge potential for
>>
>>> kick back. I keep the blade high, except with ply to avoid the
>>
>>> potential, and the wood near the blade never lifts..
>>
>>>
>>
>>> As far as Brian's design, I had no problem with it, only the execution.
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I think I would have cut the beveled edge on the TS instead of using the
>>
>> tilted router table fence.
>
> Why? It may be a faster maneuver but you need to swing your blade over and re-align to 90 degrees. (Here is where you tell me you trust your positive stop and we have a lengthy discussion about sawdust gumming up the works. )
>
> Most woodworkers despise tilting their blade.
>

Brian, a router bit will not cut like a TS will. it will leave scallops,
while a really nice blade (Forrest) will leave a finished edge.


I would tilt my blade too, rather than hold my panel like you are doing.

BTW it takes me a few minutes to tilt my TS blade, I have a contractor
table saw so I need to remove my baffles at the back... but I prefer
that to other methods.. it's why I bought a TILTING ARBOR saw in the
first place..

--
Jeff

Leon <[email protected]> writes:
>tommyboy <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> I recently finished a side table and I filmed the build process if you're
>>>> interested in watching.
>>>>
>>>> This was my first time using lacewood and I was happy with how easily it
>>>> worked for such a highly figured wood.
>>>>
>>>> Criticism ok.
>>>>
>>>> Pictures: Bottom right titled "Side Table in Cherry/Lacewood" (three pictures)
>>>> http://www.garagewoodworks.com/projectspage1.php
>>>>
>>
>>
>> Wasted enough time on this so here's my final comment. You expect some
>> fool to give you $1,200. for that "table?" You'd be lucky to get $120.
>> What color is the sky on your planet??
>
>Now play nice.

Yeah, asking for criticism (quote: Criticism ok) then throwing a temper
tantrum when criticism is received (albeit snarky and uncalled-for criticism)
doesn't leave an observer with a good impression of Brian.

Definitely a shaker-style, minimilistic piece. I do mostly shaker-style
stuff myself, and there's nothing wrong with that style of woodworking.

As for criticism, the proportions of Brian's side table didn't look natural
to me, but the lacewood and cherry looked nice and the workmanship was
certainly workmanlike. Bookmatching the top would have added to the
effect of the piece, I think, perhaps by resawing the solid lacewood into
veneers.

But if Brian and his cohort like it, that's really all that matters.

> I can assure you that there are a lot of people that will
>pay a very large sum of money for a piece, especially if it fits a specific
>need. Been there done that..

Indeed.

[email protected] wrote:
> I recently finished a side table and I filmed the build process if you're interested in watching.
>
> This was my first time using lacewood and I was happy with how easily it worked for such a highly figured wood.
>
> Criticism ok.
>
> Pictures: Bottom right titled "Side Table in Cherry/Lacewood" (three pictures)
> http://www.garagewoodworks.com/projectspage1.php
>
> Video:
> Pt 1 http://www.garagewoodworks.com/video.php?video=v89
> Pt 2 http://www.garagewoodworks.com/video.php?video=v90
> Pt 3 http://www.garagewoodworks.com/video.php?video=v91
>
Somehow I couldn't get the videos to play.

--
 GW Ross 

 Let he who takes the plunge remember 
 to return it! 

On 7/3/2013 12:18 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>
>>
>> Yeah, asking for criticism (quote: Criticism ok) then throwing a temper
>>
>> tantrum when criticism is received (albeit snarky and uncalled-for criticism)
>>
>> doesn't leave an observer with a good impression of Brian.
>>
>>
>
> Well, I was actually the first one who jumped in with a "Flame" for Tommy boy, who had actually encouraged me to do so with his comment about expecting flames for his post. Maybe I encouraged Garage boy by coming down on his side, which isn't always the case, I have trashed his stuff before as well.
>
> Tommy has the right to his opinion, and criticism was requested but I felt it was over the top in terms of harshness (is that a word?)and more denigrating than necessary so I jumped in to provide some defense, assuming Garage boy would likely not.
>
> I never did see Tommy's work (can't see fricking ABPW via my Google reader) and I loved Sam Maloof, he was a sweet and talented man and I learned a few things from him over the years but I have no love for that swoopy design type stuff so likely would be unimpressed.
>

I don't look at workmanship based on my taste, I look at it purely as
what went into it.

Tommy Boy produced some nice work.

I was not impressed by Brian's work, there were a few things that I
found out of place, the lacewood was beautiful, but not well done, since
the glue up put a piece that distracted.. If I had no more lacewood, I
would have move that to the outside where it would be less noticable
instead of breaking up the pattern.

I am troubled by some of Brian's machine work, especially tablesaw work.
I keep seeing the leading edge lifting, and in my opinion, his blade is
too low, leading to some of the burning we see, and a huge potential for
kick back. I keep the blade high, except with ply to avoid the
potential, and the wood near the blade never lifts..

As far as Brian's design, I had no problem with it, only the execution.



--
Jeff

On 7/4/2013 1:30 AM, Bill wrote:
>
>> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>> SFWIW, Cerritos College teaches:
>>>
>>> TS blade exposure = material thickness being cut + max gullet depth +
>>> 1/2".
>>>
>>> Designed to minimize injury damage.
>>
>>> (Need to give the surgeon something to sew back together)
>>>
>>> A riving knife is worth it's weight in gold when it comes to
>>> preventing kick back IMHO.
>>>
>>> Lew
>>>
>>>
>>
> Here's a short related thread from Lumberjocks:
>
> http://lumberjocks.com/topics/11838
>
>
Bill, you do what you like,
For me it makes sense to cool the carbide.
It also makes sense that cutting down will cause less kick back than
cutting into the wood.

if for some reason you veer from the fence, you cause a bind (slight)
but the teeth are pushing toward you. When the blade is high, they are
pushing toward the table top.


Take a look at Brian's cuts, see the burning. Too low, so Brian prides
himself on a good setup and is still burning. So either he is moving too
slow or he has the blade too low.. or both..

BTW why is having the blade low safe??? you can barely see it.. you may
not cut all the way through a finger, but it can cut you good, and it
can kickback more easily. So why is it safer...

All of this is what I find better, you may find something else. That's
fine...

--
Jeff

On 7/1/2013 3:22 PM, tommyboy wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 18:17:05 -0700 (PDT), [email protected]
> wrote:
>
>> I recently finished a side table and I filmed the build process if you're interested in watching.
>>
>> This was my first time using lacewood and I was happy with how easily it worked for such a highly figured wood.
>>
>> Criticism ok.
>>
>> Pictures: Bottom right titled "Side Table in Cherry/Lacewood" (three pictures)
>> http://www.garagewoodworks.com/projectspage1.php
>>
>> Video:
>> Pt 1 http://www.garagewoodworks.com/video.php?video=v89
>> Pt 2 http://www.garagewoodworks.com/video.php?video=v90
>> Pt 3 http://www.garagewoodworks.com/video.php?video=v91
>
> Well, let the flames begin, but Brian, that design is one of the most
> unimaginative, soul-less designs I've ever seen. Now please don't take
> this personally because your workmanship is impeccable as is your
> choice of woods, but they are both wasted on this high school woodshop
> project.
>
> t
>

Could you show us some examples of your work?

On 7/2/2013 8:58 AM, tommyboy wrote:
> On Mon, 01 Jul 2013 19:49:54 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 7/1/2013 3:22 PM, tommyboy wrote:
>>> On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 18:17:05 -0700 (PDT), [email protected]
>
>>> Well, let the flames begin, but Brian, that design is one of the most
>>> unimaginative, soul-less designs I've ever seen. Now please don't take
>>> this personally because your workmanship is impeccable as is your
>>> choice of woods, but they are both wasted on this high school woodshop
>>> project.
>>>
>>> t
>>>
>>
>> Could you show us some examples of your work?
>
> Yes I could. A.B.P.W.
>


Yeah! Saw them, thanks, very nice!

On 7/2/2013 7:51 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 2, 2013 7:42:38 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>> On 7/2/2013 5:14 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>> On Tuesday, July 2, 2013 6:03:11 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>>
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:

>>>> appears that he has been at this for quite some time.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> I disagree. His craftsmanship is below average at best.
>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> You have not been at this long enough to know.
>
> No. I can smell crap when it's in front of me. Takes no amount of experience.
>


Ok, it's obvious you are hurt, but you still think it is crap, and I
don't. His work shows some real ability.

I had decided to let this post go when you asked for opinions. I felt
that it was better to let it go. I guess I wasn't wrong.

Your reaction is childish and over the top, way over. Yes his criticism
cut like a knife, and may have been over the top too. But you lost me in
your response. You could have done 2 things, take the high road, cursed
him out and been done with it. When you keep going it just makes you
look smaller.


--
Jeff

On 7/3/2013 1:36 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 3, 2013 12:59:16 PM UTC-4, woodchucker wrote:
>>
>> found out of place, the lacewood was beautiful, but not well done, since
>>
>> the glue up put a piece that distracted..
>
>
> Now were getting somewhere. Actual useful criticism.
>
> Could you point out the board you find distracting? Below is a picture of the top:
>
> http://www.garagewoodworks.com/pictures/side_table/002.jpg
>

That shot shows the top much better, the head on view looked like the
grain was so vastly different that it did not belong.

I now agree that it looks better.


>> If I had no more lacewood, I
>>
>> would have move that to the outside where it would be less noticable
>>
>> instead of breaking up the pattern.
>
> What pattern?
>
>>
>>
>>
>> I am troubled by some of Brian's machine work, especially tablesaw work.
>>
>> I keep seeing the leading edge lifting,

I also see what I consider poor machining on the jointer. I press down
on the front of the board, and once I have enough room, both paddles are
on the front, one overlaps the blade the other well in front. I never
push from the back that way.

If you look you will see it (TS ).



> Again, useful criticism. Could you point out the videos and time frame where a board "lifted"? I remember a piece of ply lifting a little but nothing dramatic.
>
>> and in my opinion, his blade is
>>
>> too low, leading to some of the burning we see, and a huge potential for
>>
>> kick back.
>
> A blade too low leads to kickback? That's news to me.
>
>> I keep the blade high, except with ply to avoid the
>>
>> potential, and the wood near the blade never lifts..
>
>
> A blade that is excessively high is more dangerous than one that is too low (but still cuts all the way through).
>
> Could you elaborate here?
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> As far as Brian's design, I had no problem with it, only the execution.
>
> Finally a complement (I think). Thank you :)
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Jeff
>


--
Jeff

On Tuesday, July 2, 2013 12:41:12 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> On 7/2/2013 10:59 AM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>=20
> >
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> This was the best you could offer to demonstrate your sole-full and im=
aginative workmanship? LOL
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >
>=20
> > Rats, I never could figure out how to reliably get to the fricking ABPW=
so I'll just have to take others word that Mr. Tommyboy's work is crap, as=
I expected.
>=20
> >
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> No, actually what he posted is pretty darn good, especially the Sam=20
>=20
> Maloof style chair.

Unfortunately attempting to copy Sam Maloof doesn't demonstrate imagination=
. It is one of the MOST copied chair styles as demonstrated by visiting any=
woodworking forum on the internet. It's so over done it borders on boredo=
m. And it was a swing and a miss per the points I made.

On Mon, 01 Jul 2013 19:49:54 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 7/1/2013 3:22 PM, tommyboy wrote:
>> On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 18:17:05 -0700 (PDT), [email protected]

>> Well, let the flames begin, but Brian, that design is one of the most
>> unimaginative, soul-less designs I've ever seen. Now please don't take
>> this personally because your workmanship is impeccable as is your
>> choice of woods, but they are both wasted on this high school woodshop
>> project.
>>
>> t
>>
>
>Could you show us some examples of your work?

Yes I could. A.B.P.W.

On Monday, July 1, 2013 8:53:12 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I recently finished a side table and I filmed the build process if you're
>
> > interested in watching.
>
> >
>
> > This was my first time using lacewood and I was happy with how easily it
>
> > worked for such a highly figured wood.
>
> >
>
> > Criticism ok.
>
> >
>
> > Pictures: Bottom right titled "Side Table in Cherry/Lacewood" (three pictures)
>
> > http://www.garagewoodworks.com/projectspage1.php
>
> >
>
> > Video:
>
> > Pt 1 http://www.garagewoodworks.com/video.php?video=v89
>
> > Pt 2 http://www.garagewoodworks.com/video.php?video=v90
>
> > Pt 3 http://www.garagewoodworks.com/video.php?video=v91
>
>
>
> Very nice and I like your wooden pull. Did you make that too? And Is it
>
> just the lighting in the picture that makes that second top board to appear
>
> with so much contrast to the other top boards?

Thank you. Yes I made the pull. The contrast isn't as dramatic in person but the grain does vary.

On Tuesday, July 2, 2013 8:03:13 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> On 7/2/2013 5:25 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
> > Leon <[email protected]> writes:
>
> >> tommyboy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>>>> I recently finished a side table and I filmed the build process if you're
>
> >>>>> interested in watching.
>
> >>>>>
>
> >>>>> This was my first time using lacewood and I was happy with how easily it
>
> >>>>> worked for such a highly figured wood.
>
> >>>>>
>
> >>>>> Criticism ok.
>
> >>>>>
>
> >>>>> Pictures: Bottom right titled "Side Table in Cherry/Lacewood" (three pictures)
>
> >>>>> http://www.garagewoodworks.com/projectspage1.php
>
> >>>>>
>
> >>>
>
> >>>
>
> >>> Wasted enough time on this so here's my final comment. You expect some
>
> >>> fool to give you $1,200. for that "table?" You'd be lucky to get $120.
>
> >>> What color is the sky on your planet??
>
> >>
>
> >> Now play nice.
>
> >
>
> > Yeah, asking for criticism (quote: Criticism ok) then throwing a temper
>
> > tantrum when criticism is received (albeit snarky and uncalled-for criticism)
>
> > doesn't leave an observer with a good impression of Brian.
>
>
>
> I am probably the worlds worse for firing back but he really did not
>
> have a leg to stand on.
>
>
>
> >
>
> > Definitely a shaker-style, minimilistic piece. I do mostly shaker-style
>
> > stuff myself, and there's nothing wrong with that style of woodworking.
>
>
>
> Absolutely agree and, ;~),I noticed that there was a more reasonable
>
> amount of glue used on this "educational episode".

Educational episode deserves to be in quotes? Nice one Leon.






>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
>
> > As for criticism, the proportions of Brian's side table didn't look natural
>
> > to me, but the lacewood and cherry looked nice and the workmanship was
>
> > certainly workmanlike. Bookmatching the top would have added to the
>
> > effect of the piece, I think, perhaps by resawing the solid lacewood into
>
> > veneers.
>
>
>
> Well it was his piece and it looked nice but going a bit further I would
>
> not have used the lace on the top at all, rather I think it would have
>
> had a more balanced look hed he used the same design and used the lace
>
> on the aprons and drawer front. Used cherry for legs, drawer pull, and
>
> top. But that is just my way of thinking and really did would not have
>
> been a suggestion for better design.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
>
> > But if Brian and his cohort like it, that's really all that matters.
>
>
>
> Exactly! Only when you sell your work do you need to "worry" about what
>
> anyone else has to say.
>
>
>
>
>
> >
>
> >> I can assure you that there are a lot of people that will
>
> >> pay a very large sum of money for a piece, especially if it fits a specific
>
> >> need. Been there done that..
>
> >
>
> > Indeed.
>
> >

That is lovely. Just saw the pix. Looking forward to taking in the movie.

On Sunday, June 30, 2013 8:17:05 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> I recently finished a side table and I filmed the build process if you're interested in watching.
>
>
>
> This was my first time using lacewood and I was happy with how easily it worked for such a highly figured wood.
>
>
>
> Criticism ok.
>
>
>
> Pictures: Bottom right titled "Side Table in Cherry/Lacewood" (three pictures)
>
> http://www.garagewoodworks.com/projectspage1.php
>
>
>
> Video:
>
> Pt 1 http://www.garagewoodworks.com/video.php?video=v89
>
> Pt 2 http://www.garagewoodworks.com/video.php?video=v90
>
> Pt 3 http://www.garagewoodworks.com/video.php?video=v91

On 7/2/2013 5:14 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 2, 2013 6:03:11 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tuesday, July 2, 2013 12:41:12 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>>
>>>> On 7/2/2013 10:59 AM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> This was the best you could offer to demonstrate your sole-full and
>>
>>>>>> imaginative workmanship? LOL
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> Rats, I never could figure out how to reliably get to the fricking ABPW
>>
>>>>> so I'll just have to take others word that Mr. Tommyboy's work is crap, as I expected.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> No, actually what he posted is pretty darn good, especially the Sam
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> Maloof style chair.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Unfortunately attempting to copy Sam Maloof doesn't demonstrate
>>
>>> imagination. It is one of the MOST copied chair styles as demonstrated by
>>
>>> visiting any woodworking forum on the internet. It's so over done it
>>
>>> borders on boredom. And it was a swing and a miss per the points I made.
>>
>>
>>
>> Still it took a skill level and attention to detail that is beyond many
>>
>> here.
>
> He stated that mu piece was "unimaginative, soul-less". Again, there is NO imagination used in copying another artist. I expected to see him show projects which demonstrated imagination. He showed nothing of the sort. Keep in mind that he has the opportunity to show his best work. I was far from impressed and from his 'mouth-off' I expected much more.


You asked for criticism, he did not. I asked for examples of his work,
you did not but you did take an opportunity to "get back at him" when he
did show that he was quite accomplished.


>
>> He was a bit harsh in his opening statement concerning your table,
>>
>> hell I am probably the most guilty for doing that, but he voiced his
>>
>> opinion as you had asked. If the kitchen is too hot.....
>
>
> Yes I asked for criticism. As I said above - he could have expressed what he liked and didn't like w/o the 'high school workmanship' - like commentary. Agree?
>

Totally agree, that was harsh. you should have ignored it, especially
since you were asking for criticism.

But then you fired back,

Everyone has their own taste as to what they find appealing in a piece
of furniture. I'm sure you could have expressed your taste and dislikes
w/o actually sounding like a high-school'er in the process, but you
chose not to and thus your comments reflect more on your character than
on my craftsmanship. The random mindless/thoughtless comment are what
I've come to expect at the wrec so no harm done.

So what I see her are two personalities that are very much the same.


>
>
>> And I sorta
>>
>> went to your defense by requesting that he show his work, he did and it
>>
>> appears that he has been at this for quite some time.
>
> I disagree. His craftsmanship is below average at best.
>

You have not been at this long enough to know.

On Tue, 2 Jul 2013 07:38:10 -0700 (PDT), [email protected]
wrote:

>On Tuesday, July 2, 2013 9:58:25 AM UTC-4, tommyboy wrote:
>> On Mon, 01 Jul 2013 19:49:54 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >On 7/1/2013 3:22 PM, tommyboy wrote:
>>
>> >> On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 18:17:05 -0700 (PDT), [email protected]
>>
>>
>>
>> >> Well, let the flames begin, but Brian, that design is one of the most
>>
>> >> unimaginative, soul-less designs I've ever seen. Now please don't take
>>
>> >> this personally because your workmanship is impeccable as is your
>>
>> >> choice of woods, but they are both wasted on this high school woodshop
>>
>> >> project.
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >> t
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >
>>
>> >Could you show us some examples of your work?
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes I could. A.B.P.W.
>
>Let me start. By the way I hope these aren't your best pieces.
>
>Your chair with the scrollsaw work is very high-school woodshop. The pattern you chose is very boreing and unimaginative. It has no sole. It looks very 2-dimensional with the straight faced sides and rails. The two species rail used in the headrest looks badly out of place. The cushion fabric makes me want to vomit. There is nothing special about it.
>
>Very poor grain match in the carved chair back rail. It's very distracting. The arm resets look like they'd be very uncomfortable the way they jet upwards. The legs are too thin for the piece and don't fit with the scale. They look like they are ready to snap.
>
>The crib is extremely country - not my taste at all. Very boring and unimaginative. There is absolutely nothing special about this piece either. The turnings are very dry and you also have a few that have bad color match.
>
>
>
>This was the best you could offer to demonstrate your sole-full and imaginative workmanship? LOL
>
>Son, I am your Yoda Master if this is your best work. Now have a seat.

Brian your work is good enough you don't have to go therre

Mike M

On 7/4/2013 12:05 AM, Bill wrote:
> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>>
>>> A blade too low leads to kickback? That's news to me.
>> -----------------------------------------------------------
>> "Leon" wrote:
>>
>>> Kickback occurs when for some reason the leading edge or underside
>>> of the board catches a tooth on the blade. This can be caused by the
>>> wood pinching between the bade and fence for various reasons such as
>>> bad feed method, stressed wood, expanding wood from blade heat, etc.
>>> If the blade is low it is easier for the rising wood to get over top
>>> of the blade and missile into your crotch in a literal millisecond,
>>> maybe bringing a few fingers along with it if your real unlucky.
>>>> Yes a higher blade is safer in terms of avoiding kickback but has
>>>> other dangers if you don't have a proper guard system, etc.
>>>>
>>> IME raising the blade simply decreases the chance for burning. The
>>> lower the blade the fewer exposed teeth. It is the pinching at the
>>> back of the blade that starts the dangerous situation, the reason
>>> the riving knife is used to help prevent that.
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> SFWIW, Cerritos College teaches:
>>
>> TS blade exposure = material thickness being cut + max gullet depth +
>> 1/2".
>>
>> Designed to minimize injury damage.
>
> Just curious whether anyone can validate Lew's technnique. It's more
> blade exposure than I would have thought required.
>

Use the height you are most comfortable. You can get a kick back any
time you are cutting wood on a TS. The only written suggestion that I
have seen was by Systematic, IIRC it suggested that the bottom of the
gullet should be just above the top of the wood.

On 7/4/2013 9:23 AM, woodchucker wrote:
> On 7/4/2013 1:30 AM, Bill wrote:
>>
>>> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> SFWIW, Cerritos College teaches:
>>>>
>>>> TS blade exposure = material thickness being cut + max gullet depth +
>>>> 1/2".
>>>>
>>>> Designed to minimize injury damage.
>>>
>>>> (Need to give the surgeon something to sew back together)
>>>>
>>>> A riving knife is worth it's weight in gold when it comes to
>>>> preventing kick back IMHO.
>>>>
>>>> Lew
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> Here's a short related thread from Lumberjocks:
>>
>> http://lumberjocks.com/topics/11838
>>
>>
> Bill, you do what you like,
> For me it makes sense to cool the carbide.
> It also makes sense that cutting down will cause less kick back than
> cutting into the wood.
>
> if for some reason you veer from the fence, you cause a bind (slight)
> but the teeth are pushing toward you. When the blade is high, they are
> pushing toward the table top.
>
>
> Take a look at Brian's cuts, see the burning. Too low, so Brian prides
> himself on a good setup and is still burning. So either he is moving too
> slow or he has the blade too low.. or both..

Or cutting Cherry! It is tough not to burn cherry.

On 7/2/2013 5:25 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Leon <[email protected]> writes:
>> tommyboy <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> I recently finished a side table and I filmed the build process if you're
>>>>> interested in watching.
>>>>>
>>>>> This was my first time using lacewood and I was happy with how easily it
>>>>> worked for such a highly figured wood.
>>>>>
>>>>> Criticism ok.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pictures: Bottom right titled "Side Table in Cherry/Lacewood" (three pictures)
>>>>> http://www.garagewoodworks.com/projectspage1.php
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Wasted enough time on this so here's my final comment. You expect some
>>> fool to give you $1,200. for that "table?" You'd be lucky to get $120.
>>> What color is the sky on your planet??
>>
>> Now play nice.
>
> Yeah, asking for criticism (quote: Criticism ok) then throwing a temper
> tantrum when criticism is received (albeit snarky and uncalled-for criticism)
> doesn't leave an observer with a good impression of Brian.

I am probably the worlds worse for firing back but he really did not
have a leg to stand on.

>
> Definitely a shaker-style, minimilistic piece. I do mostly shaker-style
> stuff myself, and there's nothing wrong with that style of woodworking.

Absolutely agree and, ;~),I noticed that there was a more reasonable
amount of glue used on this "educational episode".



>
> As for criticism, the proportions of Brian's side table didn't look natural
> to me, but the lacewood and cherry looked nice and the workmanship was
> certainly workmanlike. Bookmatching the top would have added to the
> effect of the piece, I think, perhaps by resawing the solid lacewood into
> veneers.

Well it was his piece and it looked nice but going a bit further I would
not have used the lace on the top at all, rather I think it would have
had a more balanced look hed he used the same design and used the lace
on the aprons and drawer front. Used cherry for legs, drawer pull, and
top. But that is just my way of thinking and really did would not have
been a suggestion for better design.



>
> But if Brian and his cohort like it, that's really all that matters.

Exactly! Only when you sell your work do you need to "worry" about what
anyone else has to say.


>
>> I can assure you that there are a lot of people that will
>> pay a very large sum of money for a piece, especially if it fits a specific
>> need. Been there done that..
>
> Indeed.
>

On 7/3/2013 1:22 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 3, 2013 2:17:39 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>> On 7/3/2013 12:36 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday, July 3, 2013 12:59:16 PM UTC-4, woodchucker wrote:
>>
>>>> On 7/3/2013 12:18 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> Yeah, asking for criticism (quote: Criticism ok) then throwing a temper
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> tantrum when criticism is received (albeit snarky and uncalled-for criticism)
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> doesn't leave an observer with a good impression of Brian.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> Well, I was actually the first one who jumped in with a "Flame" for Tommy boy, who had actually encouraged me to do so with his comment about expecting flames for his post. Maybe I encouraged Garage boy by coming down on his side, which isn't always the case, I have trashed his stuff before as well.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> Tommy has the right to his opinion, and criticism was requested but I felt it was over the top in terms of harshness (is that a word?)and more denigrating than necessary so I jumped in to provide some defense, assuming Garage boy would likely not.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> I never did see Tommy's work (can't see fricking ABPW via my Google reader) and I loved Sam Maloof, he was a sweet and talented man and I learned a few things from him over the years but I have no love for that swoopy design type stuff so likely would be unimpressed.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> I don't look at workmanship based on my taste, I look at it purely as
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> what went into it.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Donkey sh*t. You judge "what went into it" based on your taste.
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>> Tommy Boy produced some nice work.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> I am confident that he presented what was his hand picked favorites. I found them to be weak and uninspiring. His best of the bunch was the Maloof knock-off chair but this didn't demonstrate the very trait that he crapped on me for. Being "unimaginative".
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>> I was not impressed by Brian's work, there were a few things that I
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> found out of place, the lacewood was beautiful, but not well done, since
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> the glue up put a piece that distracted..
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Now were getting somewhere. Actual useful criticism.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Could you point out the board you find distracting? Below is a picture of the top:
>>
>>>
>>
>>> http://www.garagewoodworks.com/pictures/side_table/002.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> To easily understand, you would need to repost the original picture, the
>>
>> one that this link has replaced.
>
> Like I told you when you originally asked - it was an artifact of the photography.
>
> Nothing wrong with the top. It is very pleasing to look at.
>
>> But it shows up better in the first
>>
>> video opening shot below.
>>
>>
>>
>> The right middle top board here.
>
> It's all in how the light hits the wood. It is a very pleasing top to look at.

I am sure it looks great but that first picture was not as flattering as
the current.

On 7/3/2013 1:01 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 3, 2013 1:25:37 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>> On 7/3/2013 11:59 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>> I am troubled by some of Brian's machine work, especially tablesaw work.
>>
>>> I keep seeing the leading edge lifting, and in my opinion, his blade is
>>
>>> too low, leading to some of the burning we see, and a huge potential for
>>
>>> kick back. I keep the blade high, except with ply to avoid the
>>
>>> potential, and the wood near the blade never lifts..
>>
>>>
>>
>>> As far as Brian's design, I had no problem with it, only the execution.
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I think I would have cut the beveled edge on the TS instead of using the
>>
>> tilted router table fence.
>
> Why? It may be a faster maneuver but you need to swing your blade over and re-align to 90 degrees. (Here is where you tell me you trust your positive stop and we have a lengthy discussion about sawdust gumming up the works. )

Well in all honesty, I use a tilt box to verify that the positive stops
are accurate with in .1 degrees and my rips produce square edges good
enough for glue up. This was true for my old Jet cabinet saw and my new
ICS SawStop.


> Most woodworkers despise tilting their blade.
>
Well I will agree that many do but that is all in learning how to set
the saw up so that you can trust its settings and stops. Personally I
despise using chamfer bits on my router table. Too much set up time
vs, tilting my blade.

I understand your concerns, been there and done that, but I have quite a
bit more experience than you and have learned over the years what works
better and how to work efficiently.

[email protected] wrote:
>> And I sorta
>>
>> went to your defense by requesting that he show his work, he did and it
>>
>> appears that he has been at this for quite some time.
> I disagree. His craftsmanship is below average at best.
>
Had to get that in, did you?
You should know better...
Let's regain our composure.

Lew Hodgett wrote:
> RE: Subject
>
> If you want to show your woodworking skills, that's one thing.
>
> If you want to shill for Disney as the price of admission to view your
> work,


I went to take a peek and his site tried to get me to join the Navy. : )




then perform aerial intercourse on a rotating annular spheroid. Lew

On 7/3/2013 1:01 PM, [email protected] wrote:
...

> Most woodworkers despise tilting their blade.

From what data did you create that "statistic/fact"????

I, for one, do it quite frequently and like Leon trust the stops (and
have never found reason not to).

--

On 7/3/2013 12:36 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 3, 2013 12:59:16 PM UTC-4, woodchucker wrote:
...

>> ... the lacewood was beautiful, ...
>> the glue up put a piece that distracted..
>
>
> Now were getting somewhere. Actual useful criticism.
> Could you point out the board you find distracting? Below is a picture of the top:
>
> http://www.garagewoodworks.com/pictures/side_table/002.jpg

It's not an individual board, it's that the four don't go together
well--there's too much difference in color and grain pattern between
each such that the juxtaposition is distracting.

It looks as though it were two boards and that you put one on the to
edges and the other in the middle two. W/o more material from either of
the two selections to try to match, I'd have probably veneered the top
from the board that is the two outers and, perhaps, laid it as an inset
panel framed by the cherry or some other way to even out the disparity
that shows up as is...

>> If I had no more lacewood, I
>> would have move that to the outside where it would be less noticable
>> instead of breaking up the pattern.
>
> What pattern?

The continuity of similar grain/color from one piece to the next as
discussed above...


...

>> As far as Brian's design, I had no problem with it, only the execution.
>
> Finally a complement (I think). Thank you :)
...

I think other than the above on better grain-matching it would have been
improved if it were made to look a little "lighter" on its feet--it
seems a little heavy to me.

I'd have tapered the legs a little more and certainly have lightened-up
the edges of the top by at least a chamfer if not actually thinning the
edge by a bottom taper or using a fully-shaped edge. The hard square
corners are a kick in the eyes, too, imo.

While on grain, quarter-sawn material for the legs would eliminate the
different grain pattern shown on the front and front rear legs--the rear
one looks as though it is close from what can tell; the front has face
on one side, edge on the other that doesn't match well...

Tage Frid's first book (and I think it's also in Hoadley's) has a good
demo of choosing grain direction for legs to make them nearly symmetric
from each side...

--

On 7/3/2013 1:26 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 3, 2013 2:17:50 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
>> On 7/3/2013 1:01 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>> ...
>>
>>
>>
>>> Most woodworkers despise tilting their blade.
...
>> From what data did you create that "statistic/fact"????
>
> It is admittedly a based on limited data from reading forums and commentary.
>
> Take it for what it is but it shouldn't come as a shock.
...

Which is, imo, worthless...unless one has a saw that is poorly made so
that stops aren't reproducible--in which case it probably isn't very
easy to rely on it for anything else, either.

I don't see why it shouldn't (be a surprise/shock, that is)...as I think
we've discussed before, there's a whole history of woodworking long
before the 'net and forums even existed and it seems most of the ones
around now are pretty much only relatively newcomers w/ little if any
actual production experience.

--

[email protected] wrote:
> You are incredibly hung up on "experience". That's twice you've used
> this one. As a Ph.D. chemist I have met some incredibly bad chemists
> that had more "experience" than me. And I have met M.S. level chemists
> that have rocked my world. It's meaningless and arbitrary and I don't
> understand your attraction to it.

You have a doctoral degree in chemistry and you sought donations (here)
to buy a video camera for your web site? Gee, that's pretty close to
"deception by omission".