FWIW... a pneumatic stapler makes *really* short work of putting up corner
bead. The metal kind, that is. Beats the daylights out of trying to hold the
bead tight against the corner with one hand, hold a nail with your other hand,
and swing a hammer with your other other hand... and for overhead work, like
on the edge of a soffit, it's waaaaaaay easier on a shoulder joint that's
<mumble> years old and was first diagnosed with bursitis at the ripe old age
of thirty.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
I'm with ya...just did a dozen or so window revels with drywall wrapped
back to the window at my buddy's new bar, worked BEAUTIFULLY...will
never go back to nails, and won't ever used "mud on".
It may seem like over kill, but in addition to the mud on the corner
bead, there's a layer of tape where the coner meets the drywall...it's
cheep insurance against cracking in the future, and it seemed to finish
easier IMHO.
Regardless of the corner bead/mudding...there's FREE BEER until he
forgets what I did for him...fortunately he's a young guy ;-)
DAC
Leon wrote:
> "Mike Dembroge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > What forces are on a corner that requires it to be fastened so thoroughly?
>
> A bump by a kid. 4 or 5 years ago I was doing some warranty work for a large
> builder in the Houston area. He was having a lot of call backs for corners
> that were poping loose.
You give me any installation of anything, and I'll give you an example
of something that went wrong. Beads are no exception.
> > The drywallers around here use mud-on corners now. No nails or staples at
> > all. They're just put on by embedding them into a bed of mud. Our guy
> > (union drywaller with 20+ years of experience) prefers them because they
> > go on straighter as they're not pulled to either side, nor do they have
> > divets in them, where they're fastened. He's the expert, so I'm just
> > going by what he says.
>
> Well that sounds scary. The demples get covered by the mud which should be
> put on both edges of the corner. Who does he work for?
Why is that scary? The mud-on corners are paper faced - the same paper
tape that is used to cover the joints. There is no flex in a corner as
there's a stud behind it for the entire length and the paper tape holds
up just fine in the middle of the stud bay where there is flex.
The paper faced mud-on corners are gaining popularity because there are
also application tools. There's one to spread mud on both sides of the
corner and another to press the corner into the mud and smooth it.
The biggest problem with the mud-on corners is air bubbles. If the
installer uses too much and too thick mud bubbles can get trapped
behind the corner bead as it's neither the metal nor paper are
perforated.
R
Leon wrote:
> "RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >
> > You give me any installation of anything, and I'll give you an example
> > of something that went wrong. Beads are no exception.
>
> Umm 4 or 5 inside corner beads in the high traffic areas in most of the
> houses in a 1 year old neighborhood that is not built out yet?
> I don't think so.
Inside corner beads? Inside corners don't use beads, they're just
taped. Regardless, the fault lies with the installer, not the product.
My point was that some isolated instances of faulty installation
doesn't condemn a product - or shouldn't.
> And finding a problem with any install is not a particular talent.
Well, considering that is how I make a considerable portion of my
livelihood, I may disagree with you. Seeing the problem isn't the
trick, it's diagnosing its cause and prescribing an antidote.
> >> > The drywallers around here use mud-on corners now. No nails or staples
> >> > at
> >> > all. They're just put on by embedding them into a bed of mud. Our guy
> >> > (union drywaller with 20+ years of experience) prefers them because
> >> > they
> >> > go on straighter as they're not pulled to either side, nor do they have
> >> > divets in them, where they're fastened. He's the expert, so I'm just
> >> > going by what he says.
> >>
> >> Well that sounds scary. The demples get covered by the mud which should
> >> be
> >> put on both edges of the corner. Who does he work for?
> >
> > Why is that scary? The mud-on corners are paper faced - the same paper
> > tape that is used to cover the joints. There is no flex in a corner as
> > there's a stud behind it for the entire length and the paper tape holds
> > up just fine in the middle of the stud bay where there is flex.
>
> Again I say that this practice is scary. You end up with a house that looks
> battered in a matter of a few years.
It's really no more susceptible to damage than the standard perforated
metal or plastic corner beads.
> Although they use the same paper on the corners as the joints that is an
> entirely different matter. Inside corner joints and flat wall joints use
> the paper simply to cheaply cover the joint and give the mus something to
> stick to. Using only paper and mud on an exterior corner in just asking for
> trouble down the line and the sine of a builder that is cutting corners.
> The paper holds up just fine until it gets bumped by any hard object.
The mud-on corner bead itself is an unperforated metal corner bead -
it's actually stronger than the perforated metal corner beads. The
paper facing is the way the bead is held on to the wall.
> > The paper faced mud-on corners are gaining popularity because there are
> > also application tools. There's one to spread mud on both sides of the
> > corner and another to press the corner into the mud and smooth it.
>
> I suspect that they use this method to save time and money.
You make that sound like a bad thing. _Drywall_ is a way to save time
and money.
> > The biggest problem with the mud-on corners is air bubbles. If the
> > installer uses too much and too thick mud bubbles can get trapped
> > behind the corner bead as it's neither the metal nor paper are
> > perforated.
>
> Not a unique problem.
Agreed. It's a little more insidious, though. You won't always see
the bubbled edge of the tape immediately after applying the bead -
particularly if the bedding mud wasn't thinned enough.
You have the right attitude, though. It's always safer to stick with
the tried and true until the new and improved has some history.
R
ok, 2 questions
1)what size staple are we taking about? just curious.
I've got a
<http://www.arrowfastener.com/FMPro?-db=web.fp5&-format=product.html&-lay=Entry&-Op=Equals&itemnumber=ET2025&-find=>
. It buries 1/2" quarter round, outside corner, wallboard. does all cables
too. staples up to 9/16" . all staples are diff heights, not widths, cept
single side brads. Stop plate for round cables. I'm not gonna use it, just
curious. Always screws.
2)What about metal corners on inside corners?
I have done this everywhere I can. No big deal.
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bent wrote:
>
> 2)What about metal corners on inside corners?
> I have done this everywhere I can. No big deal.
You use regular perforated metal corner beads on inside corners? Or
are you talking about the metal flex tape?
The only time I use flex tape on an inside corner is if it's not a 90
degree corner and/or the drywall isn't straight.
R
I'm not talking industry
i would never use a nail
just taking all precautions
say where a fuse box panel juts out from a wall
not always
it can be a blessing
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I was using 1 inch staples, and the perforated metal corner that can be
had at any BORG. I liked the staples better than nails or screws
because they would have less protuding above the surface of the metal
edging.
As for the stapler, I have an inexpensive Bostich SX150
<http://images.google.com/images?q=bostitch+sx150> picked up for $30
from ebay.
A stapler like this <http://www.trim-tex.com/productsindex.htm> using
1/2" divergent staples seems interesting, and no air hose, would like
to hear from those that have.
The single best reason is that I've found is that being able to hold
the edging in place with one hand, and fastening with the other.
Drywall screws have their place, and I've used many for this
application, BUT the stapling method rocks!
DAC
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> FWIW... a pneumatic stapler makes *really* short work of putting up corner
> bead. The metal kind, that is. Beats the daylights out of trying to hold
> the
> bead tight against the corner with one hand, hold a nail with your other
> hand,
> and swing a hammer with your other other hand... and for overhead work,
> like
> on the edge of a soffit, it's waaaaaaay easier on a shoulder joint that's
> <mumble> years old and was first diagnosed with bursitis at the ripe old
> age
> of thirty.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
>
> It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
This makes even shorter work of it...
http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/jsearch/product.jsp?pn=142986
No nails or staples required at all.
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Locutus"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> FWIW... a pneumatic stapler makes *really* short work of putting up
>>> corner
>>> bead. The metal kind, that is. Beats the daylights out of trying to hold
>>> the
>>> bead tight against the corner with one hand, hold a nail with your other
>>> hand,
>>> and swing a hammer with your other other hand... and for overhead work,
>>> like
>>> on the edge of a soffit, it's waaaaaaay easier on a shoulder joint
>>> that's
>>> <mumble> years old and was first diagnosed with bursitis at the ripe old
>>> age
>>> of thirty.
>
>>This makes even shorter work of it...
>>
>>http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/jsearch/product.jsp?pn=142986
>>
>>No nails or staples required at all.
>
> Gotta wonder how well that bead stays in place when it's not fastened into
> the
> framing behind the drywall... I think I'll stick with the stapler.
>
I've used it for quite awile, never had a problem. (A LOT of drywall guys
use them).
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:5%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Doug Payne
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Amen. I wasn't sure about using the staples... 'til I applied a short
> strip a
> bit crooked, and had to pry it off to replace it. Only about 1/3 of the
> staples pulled out -- the rest tore through the metal. I think they'll
> hold.
>
How is it possible to install cornerbead crooked???
Never the less, if you have problems with crimped cornerbead, it wasn't
installed correctly. But hey, don't pay attention to the experts..... since
you just figured out that you can *STAPLE* cornerbead, it's quite obvious
you are the expert.
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Locutus"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:5%[email protected]...
>>> In article <[email protected]>, Doug Payne
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Amen. I wasn't sure about using the staples... 'til I applied a short
>>> strip a
>>> bit crooked, and had to pry it off to replace it. Only about 1/3 of the
>>> staples pulled out -- the rest tore through the metal. I think they'll
>>> hold.
>>>
>>
>>How is it possible to install cornerbead crooked???
>
> Didn't have it perfectly aligned with the edge, thought I did, stapled it
> up,
> looked at it, and said, 'that looks like s**t'.
It wouldn't have done that if you had used a crimper..
>>
>>Never the less, if you have problems with crimped cornerbead, it wasn't
>>installed correctly.
>
> Well, I'm just having a bit of a hard time understanding how crimping it
> into
> the drywall is just as secure as nailing it into the studs. Maybe you can
> explain that one to me.
>
Who said it is *AS* secure? screwing hinges on with wood screws is less
secure than using lag bolts, do you use lag bolts to attach your hinges? :)
>> But hey, don't pay attention to the experts..... since
>>you just figured out that you can *STAPLE* cornerbead, it's quite obvious
>>you are the expert.
>
> Hey, I'm a woodworker, not a drywall finisher. I never claimed to be an
> expert. Since you seem to be... why don't you explain how the other guys
> who
> have griped in this thread about problems with crimped or mudded corner
> beads
> are wrong?
>
I don't need to explain how they are wrong, they just are.... almost ALL
professional installers use crimpers.
"Robert Allison" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:fNPLf.232$XE6.163@trnddc07...
>
> I second Toms post. I have had to attach cornerbead upon occasion when I
> don't have my crimper with me, but it is such a pain and does not come out
> nearly as elegantly.
>
> FWIW, corner bead was designed to be installed with crimpers. That is how
> it was supposed to be installed and I would say that 95% of all corner
> bead is installed that way. I have never seen any professional do it any
> other way, except in the case of small patches or with one or two pieces.
>
> I am a general contractor, and if I saw it being applied with screws,
> nails or staples, I would find another drywall sub.
>
> You really can't get it right with anything else.
>
> --
> Robert Allison Rimshot, Inc.
> Georgetown, TX
Thank you!
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Locutus"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>
> Comprehending hyperbole isn't one of your strong points, I see. The point
> is,
> serious questions have been raised in this thread regarding the holding
> ability of a crimped bead vs. a nailed one. Care to address those?
>>
I don't know because they gave no details, but I would speculate excessive
wear/stress on the corner or poor installation.
>
> Ahhh, I see... you don't know, either. Had it occurred to you that
> professional installers might use crimpers because they're *faster*, not
> necessarily because they're better?
>
How about they are *faster* and good enough?
> And, of course, they don't typically live in the houses they're building,
> either. I wonder what the pros use when hanging drywall in their own
> homes.
>
Most likely they use crimped on corners, I do.
In article <[email protected]>, Doug Payne <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 24/02/2006 8:18 AM, B a r r y wrote:
>
>> One decent shot from a kid or some furniture on moving day, and off it
>> comes... 8^(
>>
>> I've even seen that stuff pop and crack the surface when the framing
>> dries and the wall has some slight movement in it.
>
>You been snooping in my place??? :-) I've spent countless hours fixing
>poorly-attached (read, "crimped") corner-bead. It's a major PITA. Just
>nail it now and get it over with. Otherwise, you might find yourself
>nailing it some time down the road anyway.
Amen. I wasn't sure about using the staples... 'til I applied a short strip a
bit crooked, and had to pry it off to replace it. Only about 1/3 of the
staples pulled out -- the rest tore through the metal. I think they'll hold.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I thought that was what drywall screws were for??
> Mac
They are for the sheet rock.
On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 22:38:03 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:
>FWIW... a pneumatic stapler makes *really* short work of putting up corner
>bead. The metal kind, that is. Beats the daylights out of trying to hold the
>bead tight against the corner with one hand, hold a nail with your other hand,
>and swing a hammer with your other other hand... and for overhead work, like
>on the edge of a soffit, it's waaaaaaay easier on a shoulder joint that's
><mumble> years old and was first diagnosed with bursitis at the ripe old age
>of thirty.
I haven't done other than use the crimped-on corner beads in prolly
twenty-five years.
I'd used nails and screws in the past.
The crimp-ons are self aligning, with a little bit of restraint.
If a nail or screw pulls the bead off line, it's hard to bring it
back.
It is also too often the case that a nail or screw stands proud of the
line that the knife needs to follow during finishing.
Not so with crimped-on beads.
The only time I've seen the crimp-ons fail is when the rock was
applied so that the beveled edge was where the bead should go.
This doesn't allow the crimp to get a good bite.
Some guys do it because they think that the bead will be planar with
the rock face, but that is not the way things were designed to go
together.
The bead will definitely stand proud of the plane of the rock if you
do it the right way, but that is the accepted practice.
It sucks to be a trim carpenter that comes behind this way of doing,
but that's the way it is.
Regards,
Tom Watson
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
> Gotta wonder how well that bead stays in place when it's not fastened into
> the
> framing behind the drywall... I think I'll stick with the stapler.
What forces are on a corner that requires it to be fastened so thoroughly?
The drywallers around here use mud-on corners now. No nails or staples at
all. They're just put on by embedding them into a bed of mud. Our guy
(union drywaller with 20+ years of experience) prefers them because they go
on straighter as they're not pulled to either side, nor do they have divets
in them, where they're fastened. He's the expert, so I'm just going by what
he says.
Mike
"Leon" wrote in message
>
> And of course a contractor seldom does the work himself. His interest is
> most often all about getting the job done cheaply and quickly.
I prefer the word "inexpensively" when it applies to me ... but you can be
damn sure that nothing done in the way of construction is "cheap" anymore.
Thank you Katrina, FEMA and commodity/oil traders.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/13/05
"Locutus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> In article <[email protected]>, "Locutus"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>
> I don't need to explain how they are wrong, they just are.... almost ALL
> professional installers use crimpers.
Actually, they and I use cornerbead "clinchers." ;~)
After I clinch the corners on, which gets them tight and straight on the
corner, I put screws in at about 16", 32" and 48" heights from the
floor--one screw on each side at each height. A union drywaller told me
about that technique... the idea is that it gets the corner on straight and
tight and the screws help keep it from being busted off if someone bashes it
with furniture, etc. In commercial work with rubber base he also puts screws
in near the floor but in residential work with wood base he doesn't bother.
Sure it's "belt and suspenders" but it beats the hell out of fixing corners
that have pulled loose or that were installed loose and/or crooked.
John
Mike Dembroge wrote:
>> Gotta wonder how well that bead stays in place when it's not fastened into
>> the
>> framing behind the drywall... I think I'll stick with the stapler.
>
> What forces are on a corner that requires it to be fastened so thoroughly?
> The drywallers around here use mud-on corners now. No nails or staples at
> all. They're just put on by embedding them into a bed of mud.
One decent shot from a kid or some furniture on moving day, and off it
comes... 8^(
I've even seen that stuff pop and crack the surface when the framing
dries and the wall has some slight movement in it.
Barry
Now THAT is a snazzy tool......I had not seen one of those.
"Locutus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> FWIW... a pneumatic stapler makes *really* short work of putting up
>> corner
>> bead. The metal kind, that is. Beats the daylights out of trying to hold
>> the
>> bead tight against the corner with one hand, hold a nail with your other
>> hand,
>> and swing a hammer with your other other hand... and for overhead work,
>> like
>> on the edge of a soffit, it's waaaaaaay easier on a shoulder joint that's
>> <mumble> years old and was first diagnosed with bursitis at the ripe old
>> age
>> of thirty.
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
>>
>> It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
>
> This makes even shorter work of it...
>
> http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/jsearch/product.jsp?pn=142986
>
> No nails or staples required at all.
>
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 22:38:03 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
>
>>FWIW... a pneumatic stapler makes *really* short work of putting up corner
>>bead. The metal kind, that is. Beats the daylights out of trying to hold the
>>bead tight against the corner with one hand, hold a nail with your other hand,
>>and swing a hammer with your other other hand... and for overhead work, like
>>on the edge of a soffit, it's waaaaaaay easier on a shoulder joint that's
>><mumble> years old and was first diagnosed with bursitis at the ripe old age
>>of thirty.
>
>I thought that was what drywall screws were for??
Too easy to dimple and crimp the corner bead if you set a screw even a couple
hairs too deep.
>Mac
>
>https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis
>https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
In article <[email protected]>, "Locutus" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> In article <[email protected]>, "Locutus"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:5%[email protected]...
>>>> In article <[email protected]>, Doug Payne
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Amen. I wasn't sure about using the staples... 'til I applied a short
>>>> strip a
>>>> bit crooked, and had to pry it off to replace it. Only about 1/3 of the
>>>> staples pulled out -- the rest tore through the metal. I think they'll
>>>> hold.
>>>>
>>>
>>>How is it possible to install cornerbead crooked???
>>
>> Didn't have it perfectly aligned with the edge, thought I did, stapled it
>> up,
>> looked at it, and said, 'that looks like s**t'.
>
>It wouldn't have done that if you had used a crimper..
Maybe you're right. But I don't have a crimper, and I do have a pneumatic
stapler. :-)
>
>>>
>>>Never the less, if you have problems with crimped cornerbead, it wasn't
>>>installed correctly.
>>
>> Well, I'm just having a bit of a hard time understanding how crimping it
>> into
>> the drywall is just as secure as nailing it into the studs. Maybe you can
>> explain that one to me.
>Who said it is *AS* secure? screwing hinges on with wood screws is less
>secure than using lag bolts, do you use lag bolts to attach your hinges? :)
Comprehending hyperbole isn't one of your strong points, I see. The point is,
serious questions have been raised in this thread regarding the holding
ability of a crimped bead vs. a nailed one. Care to address those?
>
>>> But hey, don't pay attention to the experts..... since
>>>you just figured out that you can *STAPLE* cornerbead, it's quite obvious
>>>you are the expert.
>>
>> Hey, I'm a woodworker, not a drywall finisher. I never claimed to be an
>> expert. Since you seem to be... why don't you explain how the other guys
>> who
>> have griped in this thread about problems with crimped or mudded corner
>> beads
>> are wrong?
>>
>
>I don't need to explain how they are wrong, they just are.... almost ALL
>professional installers use crimpers.
Ahhh, I see... you don't know, either. Had it occurred to you that
professional installers might use crimpers because they're *faster*, not
necessarily because they're better?
And, of course, they don't typically live in the houses they're building,
either. I wonder what the pros use when hanging drywall in their own homes.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I prefer the word "inexpensively" when it applies to me ... but you can be
> damn sure that nothing done in the way of construction is "cheap" anymore.
I was hoping that you would not take my comments personally. I know that
you are one of the few contracotrs/home builders that gets his hands dirty
to make sure the job is done correctly and done so that the house will last.
I know you do things a lot like me. Personally I do not want to see the
customer again unless it is to sell him more work that he wants.
>
> Thank you Katrina, FEMA and commodity/oil traders.
Yeah. Actually I believe "the storm" did less damage to the economy than
FEMA and the commodity/oil traders have.
Leon wrote:
> "Locutus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>>--
>>>Robert Allison Rimshot, Inc.
>>>Georgetown, TX
>>
>>Thank you!
>
>
>
> And of course a contractor seldom does the work himself. His interest is
> most often all about getting the job done cheaply and quickly.
And correctly. The proper term is inexpensively. Do you want
your contractor doing it incorrectly and expensively? Most of
the work I do is at cost plus, so it would actually be in my
best interests to do it more expensively as it would generate
more profit. I demand that it be done right, and in a
professional manner. That is why I only do work from
referrals and have more work than I can handle.
Go and borrow and clincher. Put a piece of corner bead on
with the clincher and one with screws, nails or staples. Look
at the end product. I am sure that you will like the
clinch-on uniformity and especially the finished product
(after floating) much better than the fastened one.
We do use screws to secure the clinched on corners in high
traffic areas. Clinch on the corner, then install screws at
top and midpoint (another poster mentioned this). But the
initial installation is always done with the clincher, as it
installs the bead with the correct angle and aligns it
properly on the corner. You have to see it to understand.
--
Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
Georgetown, TX
In article <[email protected]>, "bent" <[email protected]> wrote:
>ok, 2 questions
>
>1)what size staple are we taking about? just curious.
One-inch narrow crown staples.
>2)What about metal corners on inside corners?
I never bother. But I'm no expert on drywall.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
"Robert Allison" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:R3%Lf.236$3W5.85@trnddc02...
>>
>>
>> And of course a contractor seldom does the work himself. His interest is
>> most often all about getting the job done cheaply and quickly.
>
> And correctly. The proper term is inexpensively.
I stand corrected there. Inexpensively is the correct word to use there.
And correctly is a must. However correctly does not always mean better.
Putting in prefab partical board framed cabinets is correct but nusually not
better than on site built cabinets or prefab cabinets built out of higher
grade materials. Cost has a strong hold on which method or product will be
used.
Do you want your contractor doing it incorrectly and expensively?
Absolutely not but there are many ways to do something correctly that often
last longer and while more expensive during building, cheaper in the long
run when repairs don't have to be addressed years or months later.
Most of
> the work I do is at cost plus, so it would actually be in my best
> interests to do it more expensively as it would generate more profit.
Yes but you would probably be under bid and loose the job.
I demand that it be done right, and in a
> professional manner. That is why I only do work from referrals and have
> more work than I can handle.
As is my case although I don't want to work full time any more. And in
Texas as you well know, staying busy is not that hard to do. The shoddy
contractors and builders have no problem staying busy either. When there is
a building boom everyone stays busy. I shudder to think what many home
owners in New Orleans and the surrounding area are going to have put up with
and or end up with when all is said and done.
> Go and borrow and clincher. Put a piece of corner bead on with the
> clincher and one with screws, nails or staples. Look at the end product.
> I am sure that you will like the clinch-on uniformity and especially the
> finished product (after floating) much better than the fastened one.
No doubt that it will look better initially but my fear is how it will "hold
up" when it gets marinally bumped by a piece of furniture. While the
resulting damage is no fault of the installer because it was done
"correctly" I have to think the repair would be simpler if the strip does
not in some cases not tear loose and require replacing the whole piece or by
simply using a bit of touch up paint.
>
> We do use screws to secure the clinched on corners in high traffic areas.
Is that method correct?? LOL. This is what I am talking about. The added
insurance for what might happen after the warranty had run out for the home
owner.
Clinch on the corner, then install screws at
> top and midpoint (another poster mentioned this). But the initial
> installation is always done with the clincher, as it installs the bead
> with the correct angle and aligns it properly on the corner. You have to
> see it to understand.
I understand. I have also done warranty work for Kimball Hill Homes. I do
not repair their sheet rock, rather repairs to trim work but have seen
several instances in a single home and in many homes in a new neighborhood
where the corner beads have popped loose.
On 24/02/2006 8:18 AM, B a r r y wrote:
> One decent shot from a kid or some furniture on moving day, and off it
> comes... 8^(
>
> I've even seen that stuff pop and crack the surface when the framing
> dries and the wall has some slight movement in it.
You been snooping in my place??? :-) I've spent countless hours fixing
poorly-attached (read, "crimped") corner-bead. It's a major PITA. Just
nail it now and get it over with. Otherwise, you might find yourself
nailing it some time down the road anyway.
Tom Watson wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 22:38:03 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
> wrote:
>
>
>>FWIW... a pneumatic stapler makes *really* short work of putting up corner
>>bead. The metal kind, that is. Beats the daylights out of trying to hold the
>>bead tight against the corner with one hand, hold a nail with your other hand,
>>and swing a hammer with your other other hand... and for overhead work, like
>>on the edge of a soffit, it's waaaaaaay easier on a shoulder joint that's
>><mumble> years old and was first diagnosed with bursitis at the ripe old age
>>of thirty.
>
>
>
> I haven't done other than use the crimped-on corner beads in prolly
> twenty-five years.
>
> I'd used nails and screws in the past.
>
> The crimp-ons are self aligning, with a little bit of restraint.
>
> If a nail or screw pulls the bead off line, it's hard to bring it
> back.
>
> It is also too often the case that a nail or screw stands proud of the
> line that the knife needs to follow during finishing.
>
> Not so with crimped-on beads.
>
> The only time I've seen the crimp-ons fail is when the rock was
> applied so that the beveled edge was where the bead should go.
>
> This doesn't allow the crimp to get a good bite.
>
> Some guys do it because they think that the bead will be planar with
> the rock face, but that is not the way things were designed to go
> together.
>
> The bead will definitely stand proud of the plane of the rock if you
> do it the right way, but that is the accepted practice.
>
> It sucks to be a trim carpenter that comes behind this way of doing,
> but that's the way it is.
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Tom Watson
>
> tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
I second Toms post. I have had to attach cornerbead upon
occasion when I don't have my crimper with me, but it is such
a pain and does not come out nearly as elegantly.
FWIW, corner bead was designed to be installed with crimpers.
That is how it was supposed to be installed and I would say
that 95% of all corner bead is installed that way. I have
never seen any professional do it any other way, except in the
case of small patches or with one or two pieces.
I am a general contractor, and if I saw it being applied with
screws, nails or staples, I would find another drywall sub.
You really can't get it right with anything else.
--
Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
Georgetown, TX
On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 17:40:20 -0500, "Locutus" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>This makes even shorter work of it...
>
>http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/jsearch/product.jsp?pn=142986
>
>No nails or staples required at all.
>
I was just talking about crimpers in a reply to what I guess is
another part of this thread.
These are what I've used for years.
I've still got a Goldblatt and a Marshalltown in my mud bag.
I think that the best two features of these tools is that they make
you get the bead on straight and you never have problems with
fasteners that stand proud of the knife edge when the beads get
mudded.
The only problem I ever ran into is when the rockers put the beveled
edge on the corners. Then the crimpers don't grip right and you are
relying more on the mud than you should.
I've had guys argue with me that doing it their way brings the bead
into plane with the face of the rock, but that's not the way it was
intended to be.
Regards,
Tom Watson
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
"RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> You give me any installation of anything, and I'll give you an example
> of something that went wrong. Beads are no exception.
Umm 4 or 5 inside corner beads in the high traffic areas in most of the
houses in a 1 year old neighborhood that is not built out yet?
I don't think so.
And finding a problem with any install is not a particular tallent.
>
>> > The drywallers around here use mud-on corners now. No nails or staples
>> > at
>> > all. They're just put on by embedding them into a bed of mud. Our guy
>> > (union drywaller with 20+ years of experience) prefers them because
>> > they
>> > go on straighter as they're not pulled to either side, nor do they have
>> > divets in them, where they're fastened. He's the expert, so I'm just
>> > going by what he says.
>>
>> Well that sounds scary. The demples get covered by the mud which should
>> be
>> put on both edges of the corner. Who does he work for?
>
> Why is that scary? The mud-on corners are paper faced - the same paper
> tape that is used to cover the joints. There is no flex in a corner as
> there's a stud behind it for the entire length and the paper tape holds
> up just fine in the middle of the stud bay where there is flex.
Again I say that this practice is scary. You end up with a house that looks
battered in a matter of a few years.
Although they use the same paper on the corners as the joints that is an
entirely different matter. Inside corner joints and flat wall joints use
the paper simply to cheaply cover the joint and give the mus something to
stick to. Using only paper and mud on an exterior corner in just asking for
trouble down the line and the sine of a builder that is cutting corners.
The paper holds up just fine until it gets bumped by any hard object.
>
> The paper faced mud-on corners are gaining popularity because there are
> also application tools. There's one to spread mud on both sides of the
> corner and another to press the corner into the mud and smooth it.
I suspect that they use this method to save time and money.
>
> The biggest problem with the mud-on corners is air bubbles. If the
> installer uses too much and too thick mud bubbles can get trapped
> behind the corner bead as it's neither the metal nor paper are
> perforated.
Not a unique problem.
On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 22:38:03 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
>FWIW... a pneumatic stapler makes *really* short work of putting up corner
>bead. The metal kind, that is. Beats the daylights out of trying to hold the
>bead tight against the corner with one hand, hold a nail with your other hand,
>and swing a hammer with your other other hand... and for overhead work, like
>on the edge of a soffit, it's waaaaaaay easier on a shoulder joint that's
><mumble> years old and was first diagnosed with bursitis at the ripe old age
>of thirty.
I thought that was what drywall screws were for??
Mac
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 23:14:50 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
>>
>>I thought that was what drywall screws were for??
>
>Too easy to dimple and crimp the corner bead if you set a screw even a couple
>hairs too deep.
I must just be lucky, mine came out fine... and I use a Crapman driver! *lol*
Mac
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm
In article <[email protected]>, "Locutus" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:5%[email protected]...
>> In article <[email protected]>, Doug Payne
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Amen. I wasn't sure about using the staples... 'til I applied a short
>> strip a
>> bit crooked, and had to pry it off to replace it. Only about 1/3 of the
>> staples pulled out -- the rest tore through the metal. I think they'll
>> hold.
>>
>
>How is it possible to install cornerbead crooked???
Didn't have it perfectly aligned with the edge, thought I did, stapled it up,
looked at it, and said, 'that looks like s**t'.
>
>Never the less, if you have problems with crimped cornerbead, it wasn't
>installed correctly.
Well, I'm just having a bit of a hard time understanding how crimping it into
the drywall is just as secure as nailing it into the studs. Maybe you can
explain that one to me.
> But hey, don't pay attention to the experts..... since
>you just figured out that you can *STAPLE* cornerbead, it's quite obvious
>you are the expert.
Hey, I'm a woodworker, not a drywall finisher. I never claimed to be an
expert. Since you seem to be... why don't you explain how the other guys who
have griped in this thread about problems with crimped or mudded corner beads
are wrong?
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
"Mike Dembroge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> What forces are on a corner that requires it to be fastened so thoroughly?
A bump by a kid. 4 or 5 years ago I was doing some warranty work for a large
builder in the Houston area. He was having a lot of call backs for corners
that were poping loose.
> The drywallers around here use mud-on corners now. No nails or staples at
> all. They're just put on by embedding them into a bed of mud. Our guy
> (union drywaller with 20+ years of experience) prefers them because they
> go on straighter as they're not pulled to either side, nor do they have
> divets in them, where they're fastened. He's the expert, so I'm just
> going by what he says.
Well that sounds scary. The demples get covered by the mud which should be
put on both edges of the corner. Who does he work for?
In article <[email protected]>, "Locutus" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> FWIW... a pneumatic stapler makes *really* short work of putting up corner
>> bead. The metal kind, that is. Beats the daylights out of trying to hold
>> the
>> bead tight against the corner with one hand, hold a nail with your other
>> hand,
>> and swing a hammer with your other other hand... and for overhead work,
>> like
>> on the edge of a soffit, it's waaaaaaay easier on a shoulder joint that's
>> <mumble> years old and was first diagnosed with bursitis at the ripe old
>> age
>> of thirty.
>This makes even shorter work of it...
>
>http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/jsearch/product.jsp?pn=142986
>
>No nails or staples required at all.
Gotta wonder how well that bead stays in place when it's not fastened into the
framing behind the drywall... I think I'll stick with the stapler.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
"Locutus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>> --
>> Robert Allison Rimshot, Inc.
>> Georgetown, TX
>
> Thank you!
And of course a contractor seldom does the work himself. His interest is
most often all about getting the job done cheaply and quickly.