matching Stickley finish

toller wrote:
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>"toller" wrote in message
>>
>>>I got a perfect match with brown dye and mahogany stain; on cherry.
>>
>>If there was a cabal, it would now be haunting your every move ... if
>>there
>>was a cabal.
>>
>
> The cabal, collectively.
>
We are not pleased.

Fume with ammonia.

http://musial.ws/fuming.htm

"peter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm trying to match the darkest of the Stickley finishes, the antiqued
> look, and I'm trying to do it without getting and mixing a bunch of
> stuff. I figured there's got a be a basic stain out there like "dark
> stickley" or something pathetically simple like that. I wish I had the
> time and money to do this right, but the pieces aren't expensive, and I
> just need to get the color close. I've tried different stains, but
> none are dark enough. Thank you for any help. Peter
> [email protected]
>

Ammonia fuming is the traditional method. Don't want to try that? Then
might I suggest you go to your local library and look at the article
starting on page 48 of BHG Wood issue #158, that's the October 04 issue. It
details how Alan Noel of Atlanta acheives the look of ammonia fumiong using
a staining technique employing Minwax Red Oak stain and unfibered roofing
ashphalt a 4:1 ration in mixing I believe.

D. Mo

The first 3 rows of a rap concert?

Congress?

Home Shopping Network viewers?

toller wrote:
> "Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >> I got a perfect match with brown dye and mahogany stain; on cherry.
> >>
> >
> > What kind of dye, toller? DO they make a wood dye, per se, or are you
> > talking about something else?
> >
> Vague superficial answers aren't good enough?
>
> I used a mix of 3 parts Transfast Extra Dark Walnut and 1 part Antique
> Cherry Red; water soluble dye.
> Bought it at WoodCrafter Supply.
> I then put Minwax gel Mahogany over it.

Ah yes, exactly what I thought you meant...

--

FF

D. Mo wrote:
> "peter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I'm trying to match the darkest of the Stickley finishes, the antiqued
> > look, and I'm trying to do it without getting and mixing a bunch of
> > stuff. I figured there's got a be a basic stain out there like "dark
> > stickley" or something pathetically simple like that. I wish I had the
> > time and money to do this right, but the pieces aren't expensive, and I
> > just need to get the color close. I've tried different stains, but
> > none are dark enough. Thank you for any help. Peter
> > [email protected]
> >
>
> Ammonia fuming is the traditional method. Don't want to try that? Then
> might I suggest you go to your local library and look at the article
> starting on page 48 of BHG Wood issue #158, that's the October 04 issue. It
> details how Alan Noel of Atlanta acheives the look of ammonia fumiong using
> a staining technique employing Minwax Red Oak stain and unfibered roofing
> ashphalt a 4:1 ration in mixing I believe.
>
> D. Mo

Thats what I was going to suggest. Roofing tar and paint thinner in
various ratios gives a whole range of colors for dirt cheap. Sam

Mark & Juanita wrote:
> On Sun, 29 May 2005 19:15:09 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>
>
>>On Fri, 27 May 2005 22:06:18 -0700, Mark & Juanita
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Just because everyone exclaims how wonderful and resplendant the king's
>>>clothes are, doesn't hide the fact that he is naked. Neither then by
>>>attempting to wrap some kind of aura of "culture" or "ethnicity" or "social
>>>standing" around a form of behavior that is then promoted as entertainment,
>>>despite the fact that numerous people clamor and buy it, does that make it
>>>so. What's doubly frustrating is the fact that those who point out the
>>>nudity are then accused of some sort of failing on their part.
>>
>>
>>in the early days of jazz it was railed against by narrowminded white
>>folks using the very arguments being used against rap today. how well
>>do you actually know rap music, Mark?
>
>
> Believe it or not Bridger, I have actually listened to some of it. There
> may even be a couple of rap "pieces" I've found somewhat entertaining, but
> at an esoteric, occasional piece kind of way, certainly not as an entire
> genre of music. My primary gripe is not only the fact that it is very
> difficult to identify what one could call "music", but also the lyrical
> content is hardly what one could call entertainment, unless of course one
> enjoys the lilting lyrics of drunken sailors after they've mashed their
> thumbs with hammers. Now, as far as the "music" portion goes, lest you
> think this is a "narrow-minded white guy thing", I also find much modern
> classical music lacking in this department as well. When you read in the
> program, "xdx abandoned tonality at a young age, ...." you know that the
> evening's program is *not* going to be pleasant. :-)
>
To be sure, Ornette Coleman is a very difficult listen. Miles Davis can
be, but he can also set you on a course to Nirvana. Speaking of
Nirvana, they were also a difficult listen. I just couldn't understand
the words for the background noise. A young woman explained that they
were the poets of her age. I guess I couldn't get everything that Led
Zep sang either; the Beatles were something else.
mahalo,
jo4hn (happy birthday to me)

In article <[email protected]>,
<[email protected]> wrote:

> the best definition of music I've seen is "an arrangement on notes in
> time"


Remember, information is not knowledge; knowledge is not wisdom; wisdom
is not truth; truth is not beauty; beauty is not love; love is not
music; music is the best.
-- Frank Zappa

or...

Americans want grungy people, stabbing themselves in the head on stage.
They get a bright bunch like us, with deodorant on, they don't get it.
--Liam Gallagher

--
~ Stay Calm... Be Brave... Wait for the Signs ~
------------------------------------------------------
One site: <http://www.balderstone.ca>
The other site, with ww links<http://www.woodenwabbits.com>

On Wed, 25 May 2005 21:25:47 -0700, Mark & Juanita
<[email protected]> wrote:

>divide by the number of people in the mob to get the collective IQ.

square root of the number of people, surely ?

On Thu, 26 May 2005 10:51:55 +0100, Andy Dingley <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, 25 May 2005 21:25:47 -0700, Mark & Juanita
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>divide by the number of people in the mob to get the collective IQ.
>
> square root of the number of people, surely ?

That was always the formula I heard for the IQ of a meeting...

Swingman wrote:
> IOW, government office workers (when not on break).during the day, and rap
> aficionado's at night?
Sorry, wrong end of the stick. Not the office workers, the
elected officials. Remember, you get the government you deserve.
Most of the office workers are as upset about their managers as
you are. They just can't say so by law or strike, by law. Their
options are: 1. Sit down 2. Shut up. Only Congress can pass
laws, hand out raises and make themselves exempt from the
consequences of their actions.

Dave in Fairfax
--
Dave Leader
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.Patinatools.org/

Swingman wrote:
> Damn ... you mean those are ALL member of "Congress" behind the counters and
> desks when you stand in line at the post office, or visit the DMV, the court
> house, municipal building departments, tax appraisal districts, school
> houses, or any of the myriad of other government offices??

No, I mean that the majority of the govenment workers are never
seen by the public. The ones that are seen are as numbed by the
constant abuse by members of the public as might be expected. For
some reason people who are tlaking to other people across a
counter day in and day out, aren't seen to be human beings by the
people they are trying to help. They are seen as figureheads for
an uncaring uber-company. It isn't surprising that they get
burned out. The members of congress ensure that by degrading
their retirements, benefits and wages on a regular basis. They
are then used as scapegoats for the problems caused by those same
members of Congress. But hey, that's just my opinion, and I don't
work for the Government other than paying the taxes. You don't
have to agree.

Dave in Fairfax
--
Dave Leader
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.Patinatools.org/

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> One reason I feel that way is that I have to take off work this afternoon to
> make a second trip to the SSA to attempt to have an error corrected again..
> It may not be the person I talk to, but somewhere in the bowels of the
> movement there are a couple of incompetent people that cannot make a simple
> correction.

Unfortunate, but hardly limited to the gov. I've been trying to
get some parts for a Delta BS for almost a month now. Repeated
contacts, all nice people, but my Bs is still down.

Dave in Fairfax
--
Dave Leader
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.Patinatools.org/

Swingman wrote:
> Probably a damn good thing ... if they were all like the one's who are put
> out front to watt on the public in this neck of the woods, we would be in
> even bigger trouble. But I'll have to take your word for it .... those who
> pay the freight aren't allowed behind the counter.

The USPS is an "atypical" part of the gov. It operates outside
differently than line agencies. Unfortunately it has time and
performance constraints that place enormous demands on its
personnel. Most manage to be civil and indeed friendly under
those demands, but after a time it can get to them. The Patent
Office is another area where people have to accomplish an obscene
amount of woork within a very limited time period and it results
in a lot of stress for them as well. Peoplle have problems
dealing with stress, and when it becomes a long-term or constant
part of the job, they lose the will/desire to do their all.
Unofrtuantely it stresses those who truly want to do the best the
most.

Dave in Fairfax
--
Dave Leader
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.Patinatools.org/

Swingman wrote:
> Must be nice living in Fairfax ... and at one time it was like that here,
> but this urban cesspool ceased being Pleasantville quite a few years back.
> Unfortunately, there is a _notable_ passive/aggressive behavior amongst many
> of the "public servants" in this area ... and in more than one
> language/dialect.
> This morning (at the building code department) was a perfect example ...
> don't even want to go there.

It wasn't wonderful 20 years ago, and things have gone downhill
since then. We're researching WA as a place to retreat to. The
problems of "cultural diversity" are pretty annoying at this
point. The driving habits come to mind as do the misuses of the
system. I'll be glad to get out of Dodge. OTOH, I think that
everybody should have to live in the DC area for a few years so
that they could learn how th e gov really works.

Dave in Fairfax
--
Dave Leader
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.Patinatools.org/

> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> > Dell and Gateway used to have good customer
> > support, but now I never hear good about it.

Mark Jerde wrote:
> I have had excellent support with Dell. (*) Tip: Buy computers &
> maintenance contracts through their "Small Business" portal.
> (*) Including getting a laptop 1600x1200 LCD replaced that had been damaged
> by a BB gun. :-(

I tried to buy a computer from them. They were doing this burger thing
about having it your way. I asked if I could have a computer built
without Winders, and with parts that were Linux supported. Two "NOs".
Apparently you can have any computer you want, as long as it's the one
by the door. Ought to call it Hobson's computer.

Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.patinatools.com

I got a perfect match with brown dye and mahogany stain; on cherry.

On 25 May 2005 08:31:00 -0700, [email protected] wrote:

>The first 3 rows of a rap concert?
>

Actually, according to F Paul Wilson (science fiction writer, "An Enemy
of the State"), since a rap concert could reasonably be called a mob, to
find the IQ of a mob, you take the average IQ of the people in the mob and
divide by the number of people in the mob to get the collective IQ. i.e.
100 people, avg IQ of 80 => mob IQ = 0.8: about the IQ of a reasonably
smart rock or the required IQ to actually enjoy rap music. ;-)





+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "toller" wrote in message
>> I got a perfect match with brown dye and mahogany stain; on cherry.
>
> If there was a cabal, it would now be haunting your every move ... if
> there
> was a cabal.
>
The cabal, collectively.

peter wrote:
> I'm trying to match the darkest of the Stickley finishes, the antiqued
> look, and I'm trying to do it without getting and mixing a bunch of
> stuff. I figured there's got a be a basic stain out there like "dark
> stickley" or something pathetically simple like that. I wish I had the
> time and money to do this right, but the pieces aren't expensive, and I
> just need to get the color close. I've tried different stains, but
> none are dark enough. Thank you for any help. Peter
> [email protected]
>

Try adding a glaze between the stain and clear coats. A glaze will
darken overall, but also build up in the nooks and crannies, adding to
the "antique" look. Darkened clear coats can also be used with or
without the glaze, to sneak up on the final look.

Use dewaxed shellac, like Zinnser Seal Coat, or some other universal
sanding sealer between the stains, glazes, and clear coats. The sealer
will prevent each step from messing with the last, and even provide a
measure of "undo", in case you make a mistake.

Practice and note each step on some stock leftover from the project, or
a hidden area on the piece, before trying them for the first time.

Barry

"Dave in Fairfax" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> For
> some reason people who are tlaking to other people across a
> counter day in and day out, aren't seen to be human beings by the
> people they are trying to help. They are seen as figureheads for
> an uncaring uber-company.

One reason I feel that way is that I have to take off work this afternoon to
make a second trip to the SSA to attempt to have an error corrected again..
It may not be the person I talk to, but somewhere in the bowels of the
movement there are a couple of incompetent people that cannot make a simple
correction.

"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 27 May 2005 22:35:51 GMT, "Beej-in-GA"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>.
>>> 100 people, avg IQ of 80 => mob IQ = 0.8: about the IQ of a reasonably
>>> smart rock or the required IQ to actually enjoy rap music. ;-)
>>
>>I am sorry to pick nits here, but by definition music has both rhythm and
>>melody. Rap may have have rhythm that point is debateable, but it lacks
>>melody. Therefore, the words Rap and Music, when used to describe an "art
>>form" whose practitioners and "performers" are judged more by their body
>>count and arrest record than by their talent, are mutually exclusive. Or
>>put more succinctly: Rap is crap!
>>
>
> My apologies and deep regrets. Please strike my original statement and
> modify to read:
> "smart rock or the required IQ to actually enjoy rap."
>
> That better? again, :-)
>
Yep, and still funny!!! Well done. Thanks. (ROFLMAO)

"Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> I got a perfect match with brown dye and mahogany stain; on cherry.
>>
>
> What kind of dye, toller? DO they make a wood dye, per se, or are you
> talking about something else?
>
Vague superficial answers aren't good enough?

I used a mix of 3 parts Transfast Extra Dark Walnut and 1 part Antique
Cherry Red; water soluble dye.
Bought it at WoodCrafter Supply.
I then put Minwax gel Mahogany over it.

I am sure you can get the right color with different dyes and stains. The
important point is that I found using both a dye and a stain gave exactly
the same appearance as the Stickley finish; which I presume is a tinted
lacquer.

"Dave in Fairfax" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>> One reason I feel that way is that I have to take off work this afternoon
>> to
>> make a second trip to the SSA to attempt to have an error corrected
>> again..
>> It may not be the person I talk to, but somewhere in the bowels of the
>> movement there are a couple of incompetent people that cannot make a
>> simple
>> correction.
>
> Unfortunate, but hardly limited to the gov. I've been trying to
> get some parts for a Delta BS for almost a month now. Repeated
> contacts, all nice people, but my Bs is still down.
>
> Dave in Fairfax

Turned out to be a good experience. The person I saw today took care of the
problem instantly that was not done by others for a couple of years of
shuffling documents. At least I have a receipt that says it was fixed.

Right about not just the government. Seems like the bigger and more
sophisticated the company, the more difficult getting a resolution to simple
problems. Dell and Gateway used to have good customer support, but now I
never hear good about it. Same with insurance companies, health care
providers (billing mostly).

Now Woodworker's Journal gave me a prompt reply. Seems like they have some
good people.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

In article <[email protected]>, "toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I got a perfect match with brown dye and mahogany stain; on cherry.

What's the purpose of using cherry, only to cover it up with "brown dye and
mahogany stain"? The same effect could have been achieved with dye and
stain over poplar or soft maple, at one-third the cost - and you wouldn't be
able to tell the difference.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

"toller" wrote in message
> I got a perfect match with brown dye and mahogany stain; on cherry.

If there was a cabal, it would now be haunting your every move ... if there
was a cabal.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/05

"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message

> Actually, according to F Paul Wilson (science fiction writer, "An Enemy
> of the State"), since a rap concert could reasonably be called a mob, to
> find the IQ of a mob, you take the average IQ of the people in the mob and
> divide by the number of people in the mob to get the collective IQ. i.e.
> 100 people, avg IQ of 80 => mob IQ = 0.8: about the IQ of a reasonably
> smart rock or the required IQ to actually enjoy rap music. ;-)

IOW, government office workers (when not on break).during the day, and rap
aficionado's at night?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/05

"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message

>>your (racial/ cultural/ class) bias is showing...

> Just because everyone exclaims how wonderful and resplendant the king's
> clothes are, doesn't hide the fact that he is naked. Neither then by
> attempting to wrap some kind of aura of "culture" or "ethnicity" or
"social
> standing" around a form of behavior that is then promoted as
entertainment,
> despite the fact that numerous people clamor and buy it, does that make it
> so. What's doubly frustrating is the fact that those who point out the
> nudity are then accused of some sort of failing on their part.

"Music" has a long history of spotlighting cultural/ethnic differences ...
and one man's poi is another man's poison.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/05

"toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >> I got a perfect match with brown dye and mahogany stain; on cherry.
> >>
> >
> > What kind of dye, toller? DO they make a wood dye, per se, or are you
> > talking about something else?
> >
> Vague superficial answers aren't good enough?
>
> I used a mix of 3 parts Transfast Extra Dark Walnut and 1 part Antique
> Cherry Red; water soluble dye.
> Bought it at WoodCrafter Supply.
> I then put Minwax gel Mahogany over it.
>
> I am sure you can get the right color with different dyes and stains. The
> important point is that I found using both a dye and a stain gave exactly
> the same appearance as the Stickley finish; which I presume is a tinted
> lacquer.
>
>


OF COURSE!!! Why didn't I see that right away - my bad.

Thanx :)

On Thu, 26 May 2005 10:51:55 +0100, Andy Dingley <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Wed, 25 May 2005 21:25:47 -0700, Mark & Juanita
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>divide by the number of people in the mob to get the collective IQ.
>
>square root of the number of people, surely ?

Nope. I think the point being made was that a mob essentially had less
intelligence than an encephalated turnip (to borrow a term from an infamous
e-bay listing).




+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
.
> 100 people, avg IQ of 80 => mob IQ = 0.8: about the IQ of a reasonably
> smart rock or the required IQ to actually enjoy rap music. ;-)

I am sorry to pick nits here, but by definition music has both rhythm and
melody. Rap may have have rhythm that point is debateable, but it lacks
melody. Therefore, the words Rap and Music, when used to describe an "art
form" whose practitioners and "performers" are judged more by their body
count and arrest record than by their talent, are mutually exclusive. Or
put more succinctly: Rap is crap!

"Dave in Fairfax" wrote in message
> Swingman wrote:
> > Damn ... you mean those are ALL member of "Congress" behind the counters
and
> > desks when you stand in line at the post office, or visit the DMV, the
court
> > house, municipal building departments, tax appraisal districts, school
> > houses, or any of the myriad of other government offices??
>
> No, I mean that the majority of the govenment workers are never
> seen by the public.

Probably a damn good thing ... if they were all like the one's who are put
out front to watt on the public in this neck of the woods, we would be in
even bigger trouble. But I'll have to take your word for it .... those who
pay the freight aren't allowed behind the counter.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/05

On 24 May 2005 13:30:23 -0700, "peter" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I wish I had the
>time and money to do this right,

So do it right - it's a cheap technique and G Stickley wrote it up
personally. If you can't find reasonable descriptions of it on-line with
30 seconds Google, then you're not trying.

"Dave in Fairfax" wrote in message
> Swingman wrote:
> > IOW, government office workers (when not on break).during the day, and
rap
> > aficionado's at night?
> Sorry, wrong end of the stick. Not the office workers, the
> elected officials. Remember, you get the government you deserve.
> Most of the office workers are as upset about their managers as
> you are. They just can't say so by law or strike, by law. Their
> options are: 1. Sit down 2. Shut up. Only Congress can pass
> laws, hand out raises and make themselves exempt from the
> consequences of their actions.

Damn ... you mean those are ALL member of "Congress" behind the counters and
desks when you stand in line at the post office, or visit the DMV, the court
house, municipal building departments, tax appraisal districts, school
houses, or any of the myriad of other government offices??

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/05

On Fri, 27 May 2005 22:06:18 -0700, Mark & Juanita
<[email protected]> wrote:


> Just because everyone exclaims how wonderful and resplendant the king's
>clothes are, doesn't hide the fact that he is naked. Neither then by
>attempting to wrap some kind of aura of "culture" or "ethnicity" or "social
>standing" around a form of behavior that is then promoted as entertainment,
>despite the fact that numerous people clamor and buy it, does that make it
>so. What's doubly frustrating is the fact that those who point out the
>nudity are then accused of some sort of failing on their part.


in the early days of jazz it was railed against by narrowminded white
folks using the very arguments being used against rap today. how well
do you actually know rap music, Mark?

On Fri, 27 May 2005 22:35:51 GMT, "Beej-in-GA"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>.
>> 100 people, avg IQ of 80 => mob IQ = 0.8: about the IQ of a reasonably
>> smart rock or the required IQ to actually enjoy rap music. ;-)
>
>I am sorry to pick nits here, but by definition music has both rhythm and
>melody. Rap may have have rhythm that point is debateable, but it lacks
>melody. Therefore, the words Rap and Music, when used to describe an "art
>form" whose practitioners and "performers" are judged more by their body
>count and arrest record than by their talent, are mutually exclusive. Or
>put more succinctly: Rap is crap!
>

My apologies and deep regrets. Please strike my original statement and
modify to read:
"smart rock or the required IQ to actually enjoy rap."

That better? again, :-)


>
>



+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

On Fri, 27 May 2005 22:35:51 GMT, "Beej-in-GA"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>.
>> 100 people, avg IQ of 80 => mob IQ = 0.8: about the IQ of a reasonably
>> smart rock or the required IQ to actually enjoy rap music. ;-)
>
>I am sorry to pick nits here, but by definition music has both rhythm and
>melody.

the best definition of music I've seen is "an arrangement on notes in
time"





> Rap may have have rhythm that point is debateable, but it lacks
>melody. Therefore, the words Rap and Music, when used to describe an "art
>form" whose practitioners and "performers" are judged more by their body
>count and arrest record than by their talent, are mutually exclusive. Or
>put more succinctly: Rap is crap!


your (racial/ cultural/ class) bias is showing...

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

> Dell and Gateway used to have good customer
> support, but now I never hear good about it.

I have had excellent support with Dell. (*) Tip: Buy computers &
maintenance contracts through their "Small Business" portal.

-- Mark

(*) Including getting a laptop 1600x1200 LCD replaced that had been damaged
by a BB gun. :-(

"toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I got a perfect match with brown dye and mahogany stain; on cherry.
>

What kind of dye, toller? DO they make a wood dye, per se, or are you
talking about something else?

Thx

Swingman wrote:
> "Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
>
>
>> Actually, according to F Paul Wilson (science fiction writer, "An Enemy
>>of the State"), since a rap concert could reasonably be called a mob, to
>>find the IQ of a mob, you take the average IQ of the people in the mob and
>>divide by the number of people in the mob to get the collective IQ. i.e.
>>100 people, avg IQ of 80 => mob IQ = 0.8: about the IQ of a reasonably
>>smart rock or the required IQ to actually enjoy rap music. ;-)
>
>
> IOW, government office workers (when not on break).during the day, and rap
> aficionado's at night?

While I question Mark & Juanita's math in determining collective
intelligence of the mob, I guess they can't be too far off since those
who enjoy that sort of music are obviously fairly dense. I mean, how
smart can they be when they keep forgetting to include the "silent C" in
cRap Music?

On Sun, 29 May 2005 19:15:09 -0700, [email protected] wrote:

>On Fri, 27 May 2005 22:06:18 -0700, Mark & Juanita
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>> Just because everyone exclaims how wonderful and resplendant the king's
>>clothes are, doesn't hide the fact that he is naked. Neither then by
>>attempting to wrap some kind of aura of "culture" or "ethnicity" or "social
>>standing" around a form of behavior that is then promoted as entertainment,
>>despite the fact that numerous people clamor and buy it, does that make it
>>so. What's doubly frustrating is the fact that those who point out the
>>nudity are then accused of some sort of failing on their part.
>
>
>in the early days of jazz it was railed against by narrowminded white
>folks using the very arguments being used against rap today. how well
>do you actually know rap music, Mark?

Believe it or not Bridger, I have actually listened to some of it. There
may even be a couple of rap "pieces" I've found somewhat entertaining, but
at an esoteric, occasional piece kind of way, certainly not as an entire
genre of music. My primary gripe is not only the fact that it is very
difficult to identify what one could call "music", but also the lyrical
content is hardly what one could call entertainment, unless of course one
enjoys the lilting lyrics of drunken sailors after they've mashed their
thumbs with hammers. Now, as far as the "music" portion goes, lest you
think this is a "narrow-minded white guy thing", I also find much modern
classical music lacking in this department as well. When you read in the
program, "xdx abandoned tonality at a young age, ...." you know that the
evening's program is *not* going to be pleasant. :-)





+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

In article <[email protected]>, reply-to, is, disabled, to, stop, spam wrote:
>Swingman wrote:
>> Damn ... you mean those are ALL member of "Congress" behind the counters and
>> desks when you stand in line at the post office, or visit the DMV, the court
>> house, municipal building departments, tax appraisal districts, school
>> houses, or any of the myriad of other government offices??
>
>No, I mean that the majority of the govenment workers are never
>seen by the public. The ones that are seen are as numbed by the
>constant abuse by members of the public as might be expected.

I entirely agree. I was a civilian employee of the Navy for thirteen years,
and while I found that the proportion of lazy or incompetent employees seemed
to be higher there than in private industry, so did the proportion of really
top notch workers. Most government workers, in my experience, want to do a
good job, but we are often hamstrung by absolutely ridiculous regulations.

A couple of examples from my experience managing a major Navy computer
system:

- The system doesn't run nearly as fast as it could, and is in constant danger
of crashing, because of the ten-year-old disc drives it uses. Due to their age
and their outdated design, the monthly maintenance fees on these drives are
sky-high. Replacing them with new drives would pay for itself in less than a
year through the reduction in monthly maintenance fees ($440 per drive versus
$38) and energy costs (over 200kwh per drive per *day* - really - vs. 180kwh
per drive per *month*), but I can't buy replacements because the capital
equipment budget has almost no funding -- but the maintenance budget is a
pocket with no bottom. And it's a violation of Federal law to buy capital
equipment with maintenance money.

- Then the Navy comes along with an energy-saving program. We can get capital
equipment funding to replace old, inefficient equipment with newer machines
that use less energy. Oh, boy! Here's my opportunity to replace those old disc
drives, right? Wrong! My system isn't eligible, because I'm not spending
_enough_ money: you have to lay out at least $100K to qualify. Okayyyyyyy...I
have a few more drives, not quite as old, and not quite as expensive to
operate, that I'd like to replace, too. That pushes it up over $100K... but it
also pushes my payback period out from 10 months to 15. Sorry, still not
eligible: you have to have payback in less than a year to qualify.


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

On Fri, 27 May 2005 15:54:33 -0700, [email protected] wrote:

>On Fri, 27 May 2005 22:35:51 GMT, "Beej-in-GA"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>.
>>> 100 people, avg IQ of 80 => mob IQ = 0.8: about the IQ of a reasonably
>>> smart rock or the required IQ to actually enjoy rap music. ;-)
>>
>>I am sorry to pick nits here, but by definition music has both rhythm and
>>melody.
>
>the best definition of music I've seen is "an arrangement on notes in
>time"
>
>
>
>
>
>> Rap may have have rhythm that point is debateable, but it lacks
>>melody. Therefore, the words Rap and Music, when used to describe an "art
>>form" whose practitioners and "performers" are judged more by their body
>>count and arrest record than by their talent, are mutually exclusive. Or
>>put more succinctly: Rap is crap!
>
>
>your (racial/ cultural/ class) bias is showing...


Just because everyone exclaims how wonderful and resplendant the king's
clothes are, doesn't hide the fact that he is naked. Neither then by
attempting to wrap some kind of aura of "culture" or "ethnicity" or "social
standing" around a form of behavior that is then promoted as entertainment,
despite the fact that numerous people clamor and buy it, does that make it
so. What's doubly frustrating is the fact that those who point out the
nudity are then accused of some sort of failing on their part.






+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

"Dave in Fairfax" wrote in message

> personnel. Most manage to be civil and indeed friendly under
> those demands, but after a time it can get to them.

Must be nice living in Fairfax ... and at one time it was like that here,
but this urban cesspool ceased being Pleasantville quite a few years back.
Unfortunately, there is a _notable_ passive/aggressive behavior amongst many
of the "public servants" in this area ... and in more than one
language/dialect.

This morning (at the building code department) was a perfect example ...
don't even want to go there.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/05