I'm going to buy a framing nailer (finally) for reno projects, sheds,
etc. Hobby user, not pro. I'm trying to decide whether to buy a full
round head nailer or a clipped head. 20^ units are full round head
usually with plastic coated nails, 28^ units are clipped head with wire
weld nails and 32^ units are clipped head with paper coated nails. The
advantage to the clipped head units (either one) is the better angle
gained for toe-nailing etc. The advantage to full round head is better
holding strength and building code issues (code issues not applicable
where I live). I've been told to stay away from paper coated nails as
one shop felt they were becoming less popular due to issues with the
paper coating disintegrating when wet, etc. Other than that, the 2
others have been recommended from different shops. Oh, the Borg
carries paper coated nails where I live.
Any opinions here?
Thanks, Neil
P.S. ^ = degree angle
"toolguy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm going to buy a framing nailer (finally) for reno projects, sheds,
> etc. Hobby user, not pro. I'm trying to decide whether to buy a full
> round head nailer or a clipped head. 20^ units are full round head
> usually with plastic coated nails, 28^ units are clipped head with wire
> weld nails and 32^ units are clipped head with paper coated nails. The
> advantage to the clipped head units (either one) is the better angle
> gained for toe-nailing etc. The advantage to full round head is better
> holding strength and building code issues (code issues not applicable
> where I live). I've been told to stay away from paper coated nails as
> one shop felt they were becoming less popular due to issues with the
> paper coating disintegrating when wet, etc. Other than that, the 2
> others have been recommended from different shops. Oh, the Borg
> carries paper coated nails where I live.
>
> Any opinions here?
>
> Thanks, Neil
>
> P.S. ^ = degree angle
Check with your local building codes. Some require 16d nails to be .162 (a
common gun nail is .131) Hitachi, Porter Cable or Seneco all make quality
nailers.
Dave
Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
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How bad is the issue of collating getting stuck under the head? I've
been using a paper collated unit recently and haven't noticed this
happeing at all. I'll have a closer look at my work but I don't think
it's been an issue. I'm leaning towards wire weld/28 degree nailers.
How common is it to see bits of wire sticking out of the head?
"Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>One thing I HAVE noticed about the paper collated nails is that the
>paper sometimes ends up under the nail head. In some applications,
>this is VERY annoying. The metal wire nails do the same, albeit with
>little wires. I can't say anything about the plastic, as I've not used
>them.
We have two Sencos, an SN60 and a SN65. Both are full round head
that use the plastic collated strips and I am here to tell you that the
plastic often ends up under the nail head and that it is very annoying
to have to go back and remove, sometimes with some sort of metal-edged
tool ala a slotted screw driver or somesuch.
--
"New Wave" Dave In Houston
For hobby use, the price of nails and price of repair parts is not
likely a large consideration. No profit motive is present. Senco and
Porter Cable make some very good units. There are combo packages with
a framing nailer and a compressor that can be a good value.
I still have both of these as follows:
RH - Hitachi NR83A - been made for years, very reliable, recently
upgraded to add sequential trigger option and depth adjustment option.
THE nailer in certain parts of the U.S. Limited to 3-1/4" nails.
CH - Paslode F350S - current production clipped-head nailer, plenty of
power. THE nailer to have in certain other parts of the U.S. Always
remove nail strips when the nailer is not in use to avoid jams. Drives
clipped-head and Roundrive nails. Swappable sequential trigger option.
Always get quality fasteners for your nailer from a reputable source
such as a rental shop, framing contractor supply, etc. Go ahead and
put the framing nailer in sequential-fire mode for all uses. The
additional control and avoidance of double-firing is worthwhile. Leave
bounce-firing to those who earn a living framing houses every day.
You'll be glad that you did, regardless of which nailer brand you buy.
On 12 Nov 2005 06:56:48 -0800, "toolguy" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I'm going to buy a framing nailer (finally) for reno projects, sheds,
>etc. Hobby user, not pro.
On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 10:12:23 -0500, Greg G.<[email protected]> wrote:
>As for the nailer, a few years ago, I faced the same quandaries you
>are now. I ended up with a Senco FrameMaster601 (or something like
>that...).
I repair tools (pneumatic and electric) for a living, and the Senco
guns seem to be very good. The only problem I have is the price of
their parts. Sometimes they are kind of expensive.
>It has been an excellent tool, no problems, and it uses
>clipped head nails. Pull through due to the clipped head is not the
>problem some used to claim, and pullout of the shank is more of a
>problem than the head.
Paslode makes a full round head (frh) nail that fits most clipped head
nailers. The city where I live (Stillwater Oklahoma) is in the process
of eliminating clipped head nails from the list of code compliant
fasteners. So a lot of the framers are switching to frh nail from
Paslode. I am by no means a Paslode salesman (ha ha).
David
toolguy wrote:
>
> I'm going to buy a framing nailer (finally) for reno projects, sheds,
> etc. Hobby user, not pro. I'm trying to decide whether to buy a full
> round head nailer or a clipped head. ...
FRH. Some jurisdictions won't consider clipped head in code.
Whether they do or not, I don't see the sense in using a dinky little
head on a construction fastener that isn't much more than a finish
nail...
imo, ymmv, $0.02, etc., ...
BTW, I'm partial to Bostitch...
New Wave Dave wrote:
>
> "Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> >One thing I HAVE noticed about the paper collated nails is that the
> >paper sometimes ends up under the nail head. In some applications,
> >this is VERY annoying. The metal wire nails do the same, albeit with
> >little wires. I can't say anything about the plastic, as I've not used
> >them.
>
> We have two Sencos, an SN60 and a SN65. Both are full round head
> that use the plastic collated strips and I am here to tell you that the
> plastic often ends up under the nail head and that it is very annoying
> to have to go back and remove, sometimes with some sort of metal-edged
> tool ala a slotted screw driver or somesuch.
The story is that whatever the collating material, some gets trapped
under the head on occasion. The paper has the advantage that it will
(eventually) disintegrate on its own, the wire or plastic won't.
I have Bostitch w/ the plastic collated FRH and the only _real_ pita is
the schrapnel issue...since I wear glasses anyway, I have protection but
it is annoying.
OTOH, not being professional builder, the time period between usages can
be extended so the lack of deterioration in the box is a real
advantage...
If I were a pro, I could well switch to paper for that reason alone....
imo, ymmv, $0.02, etc., ... :)
"Greg G." wrote:
>
> New Wave Dave said:
>
> >
> >"Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >
> >>One thing I HAVE noticed about the paper collated nails is that the
> >>paper sometimes ends up under the nail head. In some applications,
> >>this is VERY annoying. The metal wire nails do the same, albeit with
> >>little wires. I can't say anything about the plastic, as I've not used
> >>them.
> >
> > We have two Sencos, an SN60 and a SN65. Both are full round head
> >that use the plastic collated strips and I am here to tell you that the
> >plastic often ends up under the nail head and that it is very annoying
> >to have to go back and remove, sometimes with some sort of metal-edged
> >tool ala a slotted screw driver or somesuch.
>
> I guess I'm better off with paper collated nails then, I can use my
> fingernail to remove 'most' of it. It's still a real pain, and if it
> weren't for the fact that a nailer makes a two man job easier for one
> man to do, I would just hand nail the suckers - neander style. ;-)
That's sorta' my opinion as well....in general, I try to avoid the power
nailer anywhere final work will show. In a framed wall which is going
to be covered anyway, don't see that it makes any difference
whatsoever. On finish siding, it's a pita.
That said, on the barn w/ _such_ a large area to renail, did use the
nailer w/ ring-shank. The 8d didn't seem nearly as bad as the larger
sizes for capturing plastic, but still had some. We were setting below
surface and filling anyway, so not as big a deal as if were trying to
have flush finish surface. (Being restoration/repair work on 90 yr old
siding, the filling was needed anyway owing to replacing old nails and
in enlarged holes, etc., so wasn't an additional step).
When doing the restoration on the doors which are t&g siding backs on
crossbuck-style framing, I clipped the nails and hand drove them to
avoid the plastic on the finished interior surface.
Had good service from the Porter Cable FR350A Framing Nailer here (full
round head)
Review > http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com/reviews/portercableFR350A.htm
--
Regards,
Dean Bielanowski
Editor
OnlineToolReviews.com
http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com
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"toolguy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm going to buy a framing nailer (finally) for reno projects, sheds,
> etc. Hobby user, not pro. I'm trying to decide whether to buy a full
> round head nailer or a clipped head. 20^ units are full round head
> usually with plastic coated nails, 28^ units are clipped head with wire
> weld nails and 32^ units are clipped head with paper coated nails. The
> advantage to the clipped head units (either one) is the better angle
> gained for toe-nailing etc. The advantage to full round head is better
> holding strength and building code issues (code issues not applicable
> where I live). I've been told to stay away from paper coated nails as
> one shop felt they were becoming less popular due to issues with the
> paper coating disintegrating when wet, etc. Other than that, the 2
> others have been recommended from different shops. Oh, the Borg
> carries paper coated nails where I live.
>
> Any opinions here?
>
> Thanks, Neil
>
> P.S. ^ = degree angle
>
xcz wrote:
> Had good service from the Porter Cable FR350A Framing Nailer here (full
> round head)
> Review > http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com/reviews/portercableFR350A.htm
>
that's mine and I love it. Let me rephrase that; I loved it after I
replaced the std trigger with a single fire trigger (free from PC) for
the asking.
Dave
I bought a Harbor Freight 4041 for $89 to see what a Chinese nail gun
would do and so far it has done just fine. Like yourself I am only
using it occasionally for small projects. It takes the same nails that
several brand name guns do so finding them is not a problem.
It does not seem to have the balance and light weight that I would want
if I were going to use it alot, but for small jobs it is OK.
RonT
New Wave Dave said:
>
>"Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>>One thing I HAVE noticed about the paper collated nails is that the
>>paper sometimes ends up under the nail head. In some applications,
>>this is VERY annoying. The metal wire nails do the same, albeit with
>>little wires. I can't say anything about the plastic, as I've not used
>>them.
>
> We have two Sencos, an SN60 and a SN65. Both are full round head
>that use the plastic collated strips and I am here to tell you that the
>plastic often ends up under the nail head and that it is very annoying
>to have to go back and remove, sometimes with some sort of metal-edged
>tool ala a slotted screw driver or somesuch.
I guess I'm better off with paper collated nails then, I can use my
fingernail to remove 'most' of it. It's still a real pain, and if it
weren't for the fact that a nailer makes a two man job easier for one
man to do, I would just hand nail the suckers - neander style. ;-)
Greg G.
In article <[email protected]>,
"toolguy" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Any opinions here?
Afterwards, I still go over the nails with a framing hammer for that
extra little 'suck' that most nailers I have used seem to miss.
If the depth of drive adjustment is set to its limit, the nailhead
cannot be seen. If the nail is not pulling the pieces together, put
your other hand (the one not holding the nailer) on top of the air
chamber to reduce rebound off the surface being nailed.
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 12:59:27 -0500, Robatoy <[email protected]>
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> "toolguy" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Any opinions here?
>
>Afterwards, I still go over the nails with a framing hammer for that
>extra little 'suck' that most nailers I have used seem to miss.
I currently use a Senco Frame Pro ( 32deg paper). Designed as a clipped
head, but there full round head nails now that will fit the gun, the head is
just offset on the shank. The nails, as noted in post above, will stay
coallated for years if kept dry. (they will even survive a little weather
before disintegrating.) The full round head plastic coallated guns tend to
send plastic shrapnel everywhere when you shoot, (use safety glasses)
whereas paper and wire coallated do not. The paper coallated are generally
easier to find. I am currently on my third framing gun (not due to quality
problems, just general wear and tear) the prior being a Porter cable FC 350
(also 32deg paper) which worked well for 5 years or so and was a good gun.
My current SencoFramePro 601 has also performed well and is somewhat more
compact than the PC, however the PC held more 1/3 more nails in the
magazine.
"Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> toolguy said:
>
>>I'm going to buy a framing nailer (finally) for reno projects, sheds,
>>etc. Hobby user, not pro. I'm trying to decide whether to buy a full
>>round head nailer or a clipped head. 20^ units are full round head
>>usually with plastic coated nails, 28^ units are clipped head with wire
>>weld nails and 32^ units are clipped head with paper coated nails. The
>>advantage to the clipped head units (either one) is the better angle
>>gained for toe-nailing etc. The advantage to full round head is better
>>holding strength and building code issues (code issues not applicable
>>where I live). I've been told to stay away from paper coated nails as
>>one shop felt they were becoming less popular due to issues with the
>>paper coating disintegrating when wet, etc. Other than that, the 2
>>others have been recommended from different shops. Oh, the Borg
>>carries paper coated nails where I live.
>>
>>Any opinions here?
>
> As for opinions, you'll get more than you asked for... <g>
> Here's one to get you started.
>
> As for the nailer, a few years ago, I faced the same quandaries you
> are now. I ended up with a Senco FrameMaster601 (or something like
> that...). It has been an excellent tool, no problems, and it uses
> clipped head nails. Pull through due to the clipped head is not the
> problem some used to claim, and pullout of the shank is more of a
> problem than the head. I use ring shank nails when I need more
> resistance against pullout. One thing I HAVE noticed about the paper
> collated nails is that the paper sometimes ends up under the nail
> head. In some applications, this is VERY annoying. The metal wire
> nails do the same, albeit with little wires. I can't say anything
> about the plastic, as I've not used them. As for the paper
> deteriorating on the nails before use, don't leave 'em in the rain. I
> have some 10d that are 3 years old and they work fine - but they have
> been stored indoors. Oh, yeah. I recieved a free Senco Brad Nailer
> in the bundle on sale, so it made the decision a little easier for me.
> FWIW,
>
> Greg G.
Dave Jackson said:
>I currently use a Senco Frame Pro ( 32deg paper). Designed as a clipped
>head, but there full round head nails now that will fit the gun, the head is
>just offset on the shank. The nails, as noted in post above, will stay
>coallated for years if kept dry. (they will even survive a little weather
>before disintegrating.) The full round head plastic coallated guns tend to
>send plastic shrapnel everywhere when you shoot, (use safety glasses)
>whereas paper and wire coallated do not. The paper coallated are generally
>easier to find. I am currently on my third framing gun (not due to quality
>problems, just general wear and tear) the prior being a Porter cable FC 350
>(also 32deg paper) which worked well for 5 years or so and was a good gun.
>My current SencoFramePro 601 has also performed well and is somewhat more
>compact than the PC, however the PC held more 1/3 more nails in the
>magazine.
That's the one - the Senco FramePro 601.
That is an interesting point about the replacement Paslode full head
nails, I'll have to look out for them. I assume they carry the usual
Paslode Premium price? ;-)
Also interesting about the plastic collated nails and shrapnel, I've
often wondered about that.
And neither model you mention is any picnic to hold over your head
while working on eaves and soffit framing. DAMHIKT.
FWIW,
Greg G.
toolguy Wrote:
> I'm going to buy a framing nailer (finally) for reno projects, sheds,
> etc. Hobby user, not pro. I'm trying to decide whether to buy a full
> round head nailer or a clipped head. 20^ units are full round head
> usually with plastic coated nails, 28^ units are clipped head with
> wire
> weld nails and 32^ units are clipped head with paper coated nails.
> The
> advantage to the clipped head units (either one) is the better angle
> gained for toe-nailing etc. The advantage to full round head is
> better
> holding strength and building code issues (code issues not applicable
> where I live). I've been told to stay away from paper coated nails as
> one shop felt they were becoming less popular due to issues with the
> paper coating disintegrating when wet, etc. Other than that, the 2
> others have been recommended from different shops. Oh, the Borg
> carries paper coated nails where I live.
>
> Any opinions here?
>
> Thanks, Neil
>
> P.S. ^ = degree angle
I wanted a nail gun, then I wanted two nail guns; one for framing and
one for finish work. Problem is they would only get occasional use,
big, bulky, take up room to store. I ended up with a palm nailer. A
palm nailer is the perfect tool for my needs, drives various nail
types. It uses normal (bulk) nails so no debris, its fast, easy,
light-weight, less expensive, basically a pneumatic hammer at 800-1000
blows a minute (13-17 blows/sec). If you do framing for a living I
think a nail gun is the way to go, faster with one big pop. For
occasional use, building sheds, etc, dont overlook a palm nailer.
Dont know what is going on with Grizzly but they are selling their
palm nailer for something like $30. I looks mysteriously like the
Senco unit, but Grizzly-green. Grizzly doesnt make a lot of the stuff
they sell, dont know who makes the Grizzly palm nailer but the price
seems too low to be legit.
--
joe2
"toolguy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm going to buy a framing nailer (finally) for reno projects, sheds,
> etc. Hobby user, not pro. I'm trying to decide whether to buy a full
> round head nailer or a clipped head. 20^ units are full round head
> usually with plastic coated nails, 28^ units are clipped head with wire
> weld nails and 32^ units are clipped head with paper coated nails. The
> advantage to the clipped head units (either one) is the better angle
> gained for toe-nailing etc. The advantage to full round head is better
> holding strength and building code issues (code issues not applicable
> where I live). I've been told to stay away from paper coated nails as
> one shop felt they were becoming less popular due to issues with the
> paper coating disintegrating when wet, etc. Other than that, the 2
> others have been recommended from different shops. Oh, the Borg
> carries paper coated nails where I live.
>
> Any opinions here?
>
> Thanks, Neil
>
> P.S. ^ = degree angle
>
For me, I figured this tool would probably sit 362 days a year but would be
handy for the very odd time I needed it. Instead of spending a bunch, I
went with the Harbor Freight (4041 I believe). It's a 21 degree full head
job. For the 2-3 days of the year I've needed it, it's worked just fine.
If I were framing houses for a living, I might think otherwise. Last I
saw, this thing was on sale for $89. I found the Senco 21 degree nail
strips work in it just fine.
Cheers,
cc
toolguy said:
>I'm going to buy a framing nailer (finally) for reno projects, sheds,
>etc. Hobby user, not pro. I'm trying to decide whether to buy a full
>round head nailer or a clipped head. 20^ units are full round head
>usually with plastic coated nails, 28^ units are clipped head with wire
>weld nails and 32^ units are clipped head with paper coated nails. The
>advantage to the clipped head units (either one) is the better angle
>gained for toe-nailing etc. The advantage to full round head is better
>holding strength and building code issues (code issues not applicable
>where I live). I've been told to stay away from paper coated nails as
>one shop felt they were becoming less popular due to issues with the
>paper coating disintegrating when wet, etc. Other than that, the 2
>others have been recommended from different shops. Oh, the Borg
>carries paper coated nails where I live.
>
>Any opinions here?
As for opinions, you'll get more than you asked for... <g>
Here's one to get you started.
As for the nailer, a few years ago, I faced the same quandaries you
are now. I ended up with a Senco FrameMaster601 (or something like
that...). It has been an excellent tool, no problems, and it uses
clipped head nails. Pull through due to the clipped head is not the
problem some used to claim, and pullout of the shank is more of a
problem than the head. I use ring shank nails when I need more
resistance against pullout. One thing I HAVE noticed about the paper
collated nails is that the paper sometimes ends up under the nail
head. In some applications, this is VERY annoying. The metal wire
nails do the same, albeit with little wires. I can't say anything
about the plastic, as I've not used them. As for the paper
deteriorating on the nails before use, don't leave 'em in the rain. I
have some 10d that are 3 years old and they work fine - but they have
been stored indoors. Oh, yeah. I recieved a free Senco Brad Nailer
in the bundle on sale, so it made the decision a little easier for me.
FWIW,
Greg G.
Duane Bozarth said:
>New Wave Dave wrote:
>>
>> "Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> >One thing I HAVE noticed about the paper collated nails is that the
>> >paper sometimes ends up under the nail head. In some applications,
>> >this is VERY annoying. The metal wire nails do the same, albeit with
>> >little wires. I can't say anything about the plastic, as I've not used
>> >them.
>>
>> We have two Sencos, an SN60 and a SN65. Both are full round head
>> that use the plastic collated strips and I am here to tell you that the
>> plastic often ends up under the nail head and that it is very annoying
>> to have to go back and remove, sometimes with some sort of metal-edged
>> tool ala a slotted screw driver or somesuch.
>
>The story is that whatever the collating material, some gets trapped
>under the head on occasion. The paper has the advantage that it will
>(eventually) disintegrate on its own, the wire or plastic won't.
You would think it would disintegrate quickly, but because there is a
mylar or polyethylene backing on the paper, it takes longer than
imagined. Of course, brands may vary, and since I won't use those
BigBox Chinese special nails, I can't speak for those. That is also
probably why they haven't deteriorated over time in storage.
FWIW,
Greg G.