Determining what size to cut rail and stiles

<[email protected]> wrote:
> I have a 1/4 thick 30 inch wide by 36 inch tall mirror I am making a
> frame for. I will be using some 1/4 inch bits I bought off amazon. (I
> think I posted a link in another posting).
>
> I believe the stiles are the length of the mirror. But the rails are
> confusing. I assume the finished width including the frame will be the
> mirror width plus the width of both stiles (2.5 inches)minus the depth of
> the channel the mirror goes into. 2 times 7/16. I think this equals 34 1/4.
>
> So stile should be 34 1/4 minus 2 times 2 1/2 plus 2 times the tennon
> length? (I believe the tennon legth is 7/16.) Which equals 30.125?
>
> (I have probable screwed somethign up...

Not enough information without knowing what kind it joint you will be
using.

On Mon, 15 Apr 2013 18:14:14 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>Some of us know from experience, some know from what they have read Google.
>You do not want a captured mirror.

Agreed. It's easier all the way around for installation now and
possible replacement later, if glass of any type is laid into a
channel and then held in place. Glazier points, strip of wood or
something else that can be removed if and when that replacement is
necessary.

On Monday, April 15, 2013 9:48:46 PM UTC-5, Doug Miller wrote:
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>
> news:[email protected]:
>
>
>
> > On 4/15/2013 1:08 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>
> >> I am just amazed that most on here seem to from on the way I
>
> >> want to do it.
>
>
>
> That's because "most on here" can foresee what you can't, or won't: that anything made of
>
> glass will eventually break, and when -- not if -- that time comes, you will wish you had made
>
> a wooden frame into which a new piece of glass could easily be inserted.
>
>
>
> >> Can anyone think of a better way to do it where
>
> >> I can have an inside perimeter bead or other decorative edge?
>
>
>
> Better ways have been suggested, but you're not listening.
>
>
>
> > Some of us know from experience, some know from what they have
>
> > read Google.
>
>
>
> And some deduce it from first principles. Regardless of how the knowledge was acquired,
>
> though, whether by experience, observation, or deduction, what Leon says is right:
>
>
>
> > You do not want a captured mirror.
>
>
>
> +1
>
>
>
> Same rule applies to glass-front cabinet doors, BTW.

Yes I have listened. I also saif I wanted an inside bead on the frame. I am a relative newbie but I dont see how I can easily do that on that lap joint.

I also said that, after looking at the link someone else posted, I can replace the glass doing it the way I want to by rabbeting out the groove.

On Monday, April 15, 2013 7:48:16 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I have a 1/4 thick 30 inch wide by 36 inch tall mirror I am making a
>
> > frame for. I will be using some 1/4 inch bits I bought off amazon. (I
>
> > think I posted a link in another posting).
>
> >
>
> > I believe the stiles are the length of the mirror. But the rails are
>
> > confusing. I assume the finished width including the frame will be the
>
> > mirror width plus the width of both stiles (2.5 inches)minus the depth of
>
> > the channel the mirror goes into. 2 times 7/16. I think this equals 34 1/4.
>
> >
>
> > So stile should be 34 1/4 minus 2 times 2 1/2 plus 2 times the tennon
>
> > length? (I believe the tennon legth is 7/16.) Which equals 30.125?
>
> >
>
> > (I have probable screwed somethign up...
>
>
>
> Not enough information without knowing what kind it joint you will be
>
> using.

I am not sure what you mean. It will be like cabinet doors. The mirror will fit into the grove of the rail and stile.

On Monday, April 15, 2013 9:49:10 AM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
> On 4/15/2013 10:35 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>=20
> > On Monday, April 15, 2013 9:21:45 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>=20
> >> On 4/15/2013 9:10 AM, Bill wrote:
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>> On 4/15/2013 8:48 AM, Leon wrote:
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>> I have a 1/4 thick 30 inch wide by 36 inch tall mirror I am making =
a
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>> frame for. I will be using some 1/4 inch bits I bought off amazon. =
(I
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>> think I posted a link in another posting).
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>> I believe the stiles are the length of the mirror. But the rails ar=
e
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>> confusing. I assume the finished width including the frame will be =
the
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>> mirror width plus the width of both stiles (2.5 inches)minus the
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>> depth of
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>> the channel the mirror goes into. 2 times 7/16. I think this equals
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>> 34 1/4.
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>> So stile should be 34 1/4 minus 2 times 2 1/2 plus 2 times the tenn=
on
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>> length? (I believe the tennon legth is 7/16.) Which equals 30.125?
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>> (I have probable screwed somethign up...
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>> Not enough information without knowing what kind it joint you will b=
e
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>> using.
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>> This situation calls for a SketchUp (SU) drawing! If I were the
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>> original poster, I might practice with a 5" by 7" mirror (cardboard) =
and
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>> see if are any surprises.
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>> Bill
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> I have already provided a Sketchup drawing with out any indication of =
it
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> being considered by the OP in his other thread.
>=20
> >
>=20
> > I bought the bits before seeing the posting about the lap joint. I agre=
e that is a good joint. I just wanted to try these bits. Also, as I said ea=
rlier, I wanted a bead arounf the inside of the frame similar to the cabine=
ts that will be below the mirror.
>=20
> >
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Depending on how much room you have, maybe you could use mitered corners=
=20
>=20
> reinforced with biscuits. I'd made darn sure it was strong enough so=20
>=20
> that no one gets hurt over it. Swingman or Leon may be able to advise=20
>=20
> whether this is strong enough configuration (not me).
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Bill

The other thing I mentioned before, doing it the way I am mentioning you ca=
n replace the mirror. Someone showed a website on here where someone showed=
how to use exisiting cabinet doors with glass by raddeting out the trench =
the raised panel is normally in.

Why does everyone seem to frown on this method for making a mirror frame. I=
have two family members that had a cabinet company make one and it looks a=
s if this is how they were all made.

On Monday, April 15, 2013 10:44:35 AM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > I have a 1/4 thick 30 inch wide by 36 inch tall mirror I am making a
>
> > frame for. I will be using some 1/4 inch bits I bought off amazon. (I
>
> > think I posted a link in another posting).
>
> >
>
> > I believe the stiles are the length of the mirror..
>
>
>
> No, they have to be greater than the mirror.
>
>
>
> > But the rails are
>
> > confusing. I assume the finished width including the frame will be
>
> > the mirror width plus the width of both stiles (2.5 inches)minus the
>
> > depth of the channel the mirror goes into. 2 times 7/16. I think this
>
> > equals 34 1/4.
>
> >
>
> > So stile should be 34 1/4 minus 2 times 2 1/2 plus 2 times the tennon
>
> > length? (I believe the tennon legth is 7/16.) Which equals 30.125?
>
> >
>
> > (I have probable screwed somethign up...
>
>
>
> The site you provided clearly says that the depth of cut is 3/8" (which is
>
> normal) so I don't know where you got 7/16".
>
>
>
> Regardless of the depth of cut, you do *NOT* want the mirror to reach all
>
> the way into the groove; size your mirror about 1/8" less in both
>
> dimensions. The simplest thing is to make and dry assemble the frame then
>
> measure the inside dimensions. Let's say the frame is 30" wide and 36" high
>
> on the inside. The groove is recessed all around by 3/8 so a perfect fit
>
> would require a mirror 30 3/4 wide (30 + 3/8 + 3/8) by 36 3/4 tall (36 + 3/8
>
> + 3/8). But you don't want the mirror to reach the bottom of the grooves,
>
> too much chance of breaking it when asembling the frame, so your mirror
>
> should be 30 5/8 (30 - 1/8) by 36 5/8 (36 - 1/8).
>
> ______________
>
>
>
> Now let's figure out the rail & stile length for the 30" x 36" mirror you
>
> already have. The widths of frames & stiles is to be 2 1/2".
>
>
>
> Looking at the previous paragraph, you can see that we need to subtract 5/8"
>
> from each mirror dimension to conform to what you have; that means we also
>
> have to subtract 5/8 from the example inside dimensions used in my example
>
> so they would become 29 3/8 x 35 3/8.
>
>
>
> You need a frame with inside dimensions of 29 3/8 x 35 3/8. Since the wood
>
> is 2 1/2" wide you need to double that and add to the inside dimensions to
>
> get the length of rails & stiles; doing that gives you 34 3/8 for the rails
>
> and 40 3/8 for the stiles.
>
>
>
> In practice, I at least would make the stiles a bit longer - 1/2 to 1",
>
> say - to give myself some jiggle room when assembling. Cut off excess after
>
> it is all together.
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> dadiOH
>
> ____________________________
>
>
>
> Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
>
> Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
>
> Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

Thanks for that. SO, you dont think it is a good idea to put the mirror in the full groove of the frame?

I am just amazed that most on here seem to from on the way I want to do it. Can anyone think of a better way to do it where I can have an inside perimeter bead or other decorative edge?

Thanks,

On 4/16/2013 7:20 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Monday, April 15, 2013 9:48:46 PM UTC-5, Doug Miller wrote:
>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>>
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 4/15/2013 1:08 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>>> I am just amazed that most on here seem to from on the way I
>>
>>>> want to do it.
>>
>>
>>
>> That's because "most on here" can foresee what you can't, or won't: that anything made of
>>
>> glass will eventually break, and when -- not if -- that time comes, you will wish you had made
>>
>> a wooden frame into which a new piece of glass could easily be inserted.
>>
>>
>>
>>>> Can anyone think of a better way to do it where
>>
>>>> I can have an inside perimeter bead or other decorative edge?
>>
>>
>>
>> Better ways have been suggested, but you're not listening.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Some of us know from experience, some know from what they have
>>
>>> read Google.
>>
>>
>>
>> And some deduce it from first principles. Regardless of how the knowledge was acquired,
>>
>> though, whether by experience, observation, or deduction, what Leon says is right:
>>
>>
>>
>>> You do not want a captured mirror.
>>
>>
>>
>> +1
>>
>>
>>
>> Same rule applies to glass-front cabinet doors, BTW.
>
> Yes I have listened. I also saif I wanted an inside bead on the frame. I am a relative newbie but I dont see how I can easily do that on that lap joint.
>
> I also said that, after looking at the link someone else posted, I can replace the glass doing it the way I want to by rabbeting out the groove.
>


Use your new bit cut cut a quarter round, rip it off of the stock and
glue those in place.

This is a great place to get suggestions and ideas and every one is an
expert in their own mind. You are going to get a vast and varied list
of ways to do this and like life you will get different results.

The way you want to do this is "a way to do it" but not the best.

On Monday, April 15, 2013 9:21:45 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 4/15/2013 9:10 AM, Bill wrote:
>
> > On 4/15/2013 8:48 AM, Leon wrote:
>
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>> I have a 1/4 thick 30 inch wide by 36 inch tall mirror I am making a
>
> >>> frame for. I will be using some 1/4 inch bits I bought off amazon. (I
>
> >>> think I posted a link in another posting).
>
> >>>
>
> >>> I believe the stiles are the length of the mirror. But the rails are
>
> >>> confusing. I assume the finished width including the frame will be the
>
> >>> mirror width plus the width of both stiles (2.5 inches)minus the
>
> >>> depth of
>
> >>> the channel the mirror goes into. 2 times 7/16. I think this equals
>
> >>> 34 1/4.
>
> >>>
>
> >>> So stile should be 34 1/4 minus 2 times 2 1/2 plus 2 times the tennon
>
> >>> length? (I believe the tennon legth is 7/16.) Which equals 30.125?
>
> >>>
>
> >>> (I have probable screwed somethign up...
>
> >>
>
> >> Not enough information without knowing what kind it joint you will be
>
> >> using.
>
> >>
>
> >
>
> > This situation calls for a SketchUp (SU) drawing! If I were the
>
> > original poster, I might practice with a 5" by 7" mirror (cardboard) and
>
> > see if are any surprises.
>
> >
>
> > Bill
>
>
>
>
>
> I have already provided a Sketchup drawing with out any indication of it
>
> being considered by the OP in his other thread.

I bought the bits before seeing the posting about the lap joint. I agree that is a good joint. I just wanted to try these bits. Also, as I said earlier, I wanted a bead arounf the inside of the frame similar to the cabinets that will be below the mirror.

On 4/15/2013 9:35 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Monday, April 15, 2013 9:21:45 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 4/15/2013 9:10 AM, Bill wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/15/2013 8:48 AM, Leon wrote:
>>
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>>> I have a 1/4 thick 30 inch wide by 36 inch tall mirror I am making a
>>
>>>>> frame for. I will be using some 1/4 inch bits I bought off amazon. (I
>>
>>>>> think I posted a link in another posting).
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>> I believe the stiles are the length of the mirror. But the rails are
>>
>>>>> confusing. I assume the finished width including the frame will be the
>>
>>>>> mirror width plus the width of both stiles (2.5 inches)minus the
>>
>>>>> depth of
>>
>>>>> the channel the mirror goes into. 2 times 7/16. I think this equals
>>
>>>>> 34 1/4.
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>> So stile should be 34 1/4 minus 2 times 2 1/2 plus 2 times the tennon
>>
>>>>> length? (I believe the tennon legth is 7/16.) Which equals 30.125?
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>> (I have probable screwed somethign up...
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> Not enough information without knowing what kind it joint you will be
>>
>>>> using.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>> This situation calls for a SketchUp (SU) drawing! If I were the
>>
>>> original poster, I might practice with a 5" by 7" mirror (cardboard) and
>>
>>> see if are any surprises.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Bill
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I have already provided a Sketchup drawing with out any indication of it
>>
>> being considered by the OP in his other thread.
>
> I bought the bits before seeing the posting about the lap joint. I agree that is a good joint. I just wanted to try these bits. Also, as I said earlier, I wanted a bead arounf the inside of the frame similar to the cabinets that will be below the mirror.
>
OK, so you still have the chance to make the frame for the mirror the
correct way. Don't use the bits if you expect to disassemble in the future.

If you bought a rip blade before deciding that you need to make cross
cuts would you still use the rip blade to cross cut?

On 4/15/2013 9:10 AM, Bill wrote:
> On 4/15/2013 8:48 AM, Leon wrote:
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> I have a 1/4 thick 30 inch wide by 36 inch tall mirror I am making a
>>> frame for. I will be using some 1/4 inch bits I bought off amazon. (I
>>> think I posted a link in another posting).
>>>
>>> I believe the stiles are the length of the mirror. But the rails are
>>> confusing. I assume the finished width including the frame will be the
>>> mirror width plus the width of both stiles (2.5 inches)minus the
>>> depth of
>>> the channel the mirror goes into. 2 times 7/16. I think this equals
>>> 34 1/4.
>>>
>>> So stile should be 34 1/4 minus 2 times 2 1/2 plus 2 times the tennon
>>> length? (I believe the tennon legth is 7/16.) Which equals 30.125?
>>>
>>> (I have probable screwed somethign up...
>>
>> Not enough information without knowing what kind it joint you will be
>> using.
>>
>
> This situation calls for a SketchUp (SU) drawing! If I were the
> original poster, I might practice with a 5" by 7" mirror (cardboard) and
> see if are any surprises.
>
> Bill


I have already provided a Sketchup drawing with out any indication of it
being considered by the OP in his other thread.

On 4/15/2013 9:01 AM, Sonny wrote:
> On Monday, April 15, 2013 7:48:16 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> <stryped1 > wrote: > > > So stile should be 34 1/4 minus 2 times 2 1/2 plus 2 times the tennon > length? (I believe the tennon legth is 7/16.) Which equals 30.125? > > (I have probable screwed somethign up...
>
>> Not enough information without knowing what kind it joint you will be using.
>
> Mortise & tenon? 7/16" for each tenon is not long enough, I would think. I think, in the earlier thread, someone suggested using a full lap joint.
>
> Sonny
>


I suggested the full lap joint but he bought the bits and is determined
to use them.

FWIW I did some looking around and found the bits he is talking about,
they will work if he applies the glue properly In all 4 corners. But
FWIW the method he is apparently going to use is not going to allow for
easily replacement of the mirror should it break and or the joints will
not be strong enough if he leaves a pair unglued.

[email protected] writes:
>On Monday, April 15, 2013 10:44:35 AM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:
>> [email protected] wrote:

>Thanks for that. SO, you dont think it is a good idea to put the mirror in the full groove of the frame?
>
>I am just amazed that most on here seem to from on the way I want to do it. Can anyone think of a better way to do it where I can have an inside perimeter bead or other decorative edge?
>

Everyone seems intent on making this a harder problem than it should be.

Use your cope&stick cutters, then rebate out the back. A well-fitting cope&stick
glued joint will be plenty strong enough.

scott

On 4/16/2013 4:48 AM, Dave wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Apr 2013 18:14:14 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> Some of us know from experience, some know from what they have read Google.
>> You do not want a captured mirror.
>
> Agreed. It's easier all the way around for installation now and
> possible replacement later, if glass of any type is laid into a
> channel and then held in place. Glazier points, strip of wood or
> something else that can be removed if and when that replacement is
> necessary.
>

I have 3 different glass sources and one includes delivery and
installation in his price. The other two are about the same price as
the first but you take the doors to them. They charge about $5 per
piece of glass to install. All use a clear silicone like adhesive. If
I break a piece of glass I am letting them do the work for $5.

Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On 4/15/2013 1:08 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> I am just amazed that most on here seem to from on the way I
>> want to do it.

That's because "most on here" can foresee what you can't, or won't: that anything made of
glass will eventually break, and when -- not if -- that time comes, you will wish you had made
a wooden frame into which a new piece of glass could easily be inserted.

>> Can anyone think of a better way to do it where
>> I can have an inside perimeter bead or other decorative edge?

Better ways have been suggested, but you're not listening.

> Some of us know from experience, some know from what they have
> read Google.

And some deduce it from first principles. Regardless of how the knowledge was acquired,
though, whether by experience, observation, or deduction, what Leon says is right:

> You do not want a captured mirror.

+1

Same rule applies to glass-front cabinet doors, BTW.

On 4/15/2013 1:08 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Monday, April 15, 2013 10:44:35 AM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>> I have a 1/4 thick 30 inch wide by 36 inch tall mirror I am making a
>>
>>> frame for. I will be using some 1/4 inch bits I bought off amazon. (I
>>
>>> think I posted a link in another posting).
>>
>>>
>>
>>> I believe the stiles are the length of the mirror..
>>
>>
>>
>> No, they have to be greater than the mirror.
>>
>>
>>
>>> But the rails are
>>
>>> confusing. I assume the finished width including the frame will be
>>
>>> the mirror width plus the width of both stiles (2.5 inches)minus the
>>
>>> depth of the channel the mirror goes into. 2 times 7/16. I think this
>>
>>> equals 34 1/4.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> So stile should be 34 1/4 minus 2 times 2 1/2 plus 2 times the tennon
>>
>>> length? (I believe the tennon legth is 7/16.) Which equals 30.125?
>>
>>>
>>
>>> (I have probable screwed somethign up...
>>
>>
>>
>> The site you provided clearly says that the depth of cut is 3/8" (which is
>>
>> normal) so I don't know where you got 7/16".
>>
>>
>>
>> Regardless of the depth of cut, you do *NOT* want the mirror to reach all
>>
>> the way into the groove; size your mirror about 1/8" less in both
>>
>> dimensions. The simplest thing is to make and dry assemble the frame then
>>
>> measure the inside dimensions. Let's say the frame is 30" wide and 36" high
>>
>> on the inside. The groove is recessed all around by 3/8 so a perfect fit
>>
>> would require a mirror 30 3/4 wide (30 + 3/8 + 3/8) by 36 3/4 tall (36 + 3/8
>>
>> + 3/8). But you don't want the mirror to reach the bottom of the grooves,
>>
>> too much chance of breaking it when asembling the frame, so your mirror
>>
>> should be 30 5/8 (30 - 1/8) by 36 5/8 (36 - 1/8).
>>
>> ______________
>>
>>
>>
>> Now let's figure out the rail & stile length for the 30" x 36" mirror you
>>
>> already have. The widths of frames & stiles is to be 2 1/2".
>>
>>
>>
>> Looking at the previous paragraph, you can see that we need to subtract 5/8"
>>
>> from each mirror dimension to conform to what you have; that means we also
>>
>> have to subtract 5/8 from the example inside dimensions used in my example
>>
>> so they would become 29 3/8 x 35 3/8.
>>
>>
>>
>> You need a frame with inside dimensions of 29 3/8 x 35 3/8. Since the wood
>>
>> is 2 1/2" wide you need to double that and add to the inside dimensions to
>>
>> get the length of rails & stiles; doing that gives you 34 3/8 for the rails
>>
>> and 40 3/8 for the stiles.
>>
>>
>>
>> In practice, I at least would make the stiles a bit longer - 1/2 to 1",
>>
>> say - to give myself some jiggle room when assembling. Cut off excess after
>>
>> it is all together.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>> dadiOH
>>
>> ____________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
>>
>> Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
>>
>> Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
>
> Thanks for that. SO, you dont think it is a good idea to put the mirror in the full groove of the frame?
>
> I am just amazed that most on here seem to from on the way I want to do it. Can anyone think of a better way to do it where I can have an inside perimeter bead or other decorative edge?
>
> Thanks,
>
Some of us know from experience, some know from what they have read Google.

You do not want a captured mirror.

On Monday, April 15, 2013 7:48:16 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> <stryped1 > wrote: > > > So stile should be 34 1/4 minus 2 times 2 1/2 plus 2 times the tennon > length? (I believe the tennon legth is 7/16.) Which equals 30.125? > > (I have probable screwed somethign up...

> Not enough information without knowing what kind it joint you will be using.

Mortise & tenon? 7/16" for each tenon is not long enough, I would think. I think, in the earlier thread, someone suggested using a full lap joint.

Sonny

On Monday, April 15, 2013 7:37:01 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> I have a 1/4 thick 30 inch wide by 36 inch tall mirror I am making a fram=
e for. I will be using some 1/4 inch bits I bought off amazon. (I think I p=
osted a link in another posting).
>=20
>=20
>=20
> I believe the stiles are the length of the mirror. But the rails are conf=
using. I assume the finished width including the frame will be the mirror w=
idth plus the width of both stiles (2.5 inches)minus the depth of the chann=
el the mirror goes into. 2 times 7/16. I think this equals 34 1/4.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> So stile should be 34 1/4 minus 2 times 2 1/2 plus 2 times the tennon len=
gth? (I believe the tennon legth is 7/16.) Which equals 30.125?
>=20
>=20
>=20
> (I have probable screwed somethign up...

Here are the bits I have: http://www.amazon.com/Matched-Rail-Stile-Router-B=
its/dp/B008JFIZLO

On Tuesday, April 16, 2013 5:05:45 AM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:
> dadiOH wrote:
>
>
>
> I don't know whre my mind was when I wrote the post of mine I am esponding
>
> too but what I wrote was wrong. You have to consider molding width when
>
> figuring stile length but not when determining rail length.
>
>
>
> In a perfect world, one in which all planned dimensions actually wind up as
>
> planned...
>
>
>
> The rail length needs to be the width of the mirror: 30"
>
>
>
> The stile length is height of the mirror + (2 x molding width) - (2 X groove
>
> depth) which is...
>
> 36 + (2 x 2.5) - (2 x 3/8) = 40 1/4"
>
>
>
> I don't live in a perfect world so I would be making them 30 1/8 and 40 3/8.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> dadiOH
>
> ____________________________
>
>
>
> Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
>
> Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
>
> Check it out... http://www.floridaloghous

I thought rail length had to take into account the thickness of each stile plus the 3/8 tennon?

On 4/15/2013 8:48 AM, Leon wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I have a 1/4 thick 30 inch wide by 36 inch tall mirror I am making a
>> frame for. I will be using some 1/4 inch bits I bought off amazon. (I
>> think I posted a link in another posting).
>>
>> I believe the stiles are the length of the mirror. But the rails are
>> confusing. I assume the finished width including the frame will be the
>> mirror width plus the width of both stiles (2.5 inches)minus the depth of
>> the channel the mirror goes into. 2 times 7/16. I think this equals 34 1/4.
>>
>> So stile should be 34 1/4 minus 2 times 2 1/2 plus 2 times the tennon
>> length? (I believe the tennon legth is 7/16.) Which equals 30.125?
>>
>> (I have probable screwed somethign up...
>
> Not enough information without knowing what kind it joint you will be
> using.
>

This situation calls for a SketchUp (SU) drawing! If I were the
original poster, I might practice with a 5" by 7" mirror (cardboard) and
see if are any surprises.

Bill

On 4/15/2013 10:35 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Monday, April 15, 2013 9:21:45 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 4/15/2013 9:10 AM, Bill wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/15/2013 8:48 AM, Leon wrote:
>>
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>>> I have a 1/4 thick 30 inch wide by 36 inch tall mirror I am making a
>>
>>>>> frame for. I will be using some 1/4 inch bits I bought off amazon. (I
>>
>>>>> think I posted a link in another posting).
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>> I believe the stiles are the length of the mirror. But the rails are
>>
>>>>> confusing. I assume the finished width including the frame will be the
>>
>>>>> mirror width plus the width of both stiles (2.5 inches)minus the
>>
>>>>> depth of
>>
>>>>> the channel the mirror goes into. 2 times 7/16. I think this equals
>>
>>>>> 34 1/4.
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>> So stile should be 34 1/4 minus 2 times 2 1/2 plus 2 times the tennon
>>
>>>>> length? (I believe the tennon legth is 7/16.) Which equals 30.125?
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>> (I have probable screwed somethign up...
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> Not enough information without knowing what kind it joint you will be
>>
>>>> using.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>> This situation calls for a SketchUp (SU) drawing! If I were the
>>
>>> original poster, I might practice with a 5" by 7" mirror (cardboard) and
>>
>>> see if are any surprises.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Bill
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I have already provided a Sketchup drawing with out any indication of it
>>
>> being considered by the OP in his other thread.
>
> I bought the bits before seeing the posting about the lap joint. I agree that is a good joint. I just wanted to try these bits. Also, as I said earlier, I wanted a bead arounf the inside of the frame similar to the cabinets that will be below the mirror.
>

Depending on how much room you have, maybe you could use mitered corners
reinforced with biscuits. I'd made darn sure it was strong enough so
that no one gets hurt over it. Swingman or Leon may be able to advise
whether this is strong enough configuration (not me).

Bill

[email protected] wrote:
> I have a 1/4 thick 30 inch wide by 36 inch tall mirror I am making a
> frame for. I will be using some 1/4 inch bits I bought off amazon. (I
> think I posted a link in another posting).
>
> I believe the stiles are the length of the mirror..

No, they have to be greater than the mirror.

> But the rails are
> confusing. I assume the finished width including the frame will be
> the mirror width plus the width of both stiles (2.5 inches)minus the
> depth of the channel the mirror goes into. 2 times 7/16. I think this
> equals 34 1/4.
>
> So stile should be 34 1/4 minus 2 times 2 1/2 plus 2 times the tennon
> length? (I believe the tennon legth is 7/16.) Which equals 30.125?
>
> (I have probable screwed somethign up...

The site you provided clearly says that the depth of cut is 3/8" (which is
normal) so I don't know where you got 7/16".

Regardless of the depth of cut, you do *NOT* want the mirror to reach all
the way into the groove; size your mirror about 1/8" less in both
dimensions. The simplest thing is to make and dry assemble the frame then
measure the inside dimensions. Let's say the frame is 30" wide and 36" high
on the inside. The groove is recessed all around by 3/8 so a perfect fit
would require a mirror 30 3/4 wide (30 + 3/8 + 3/8) by 36 3/4 tall (36 + 3/8
+ 3/8). But you don't want the mirror to reach the bottom of the grooves,
too much chance of breaking it when asembling the frame, so your mirror
should be 30 5/8 (30 - 1/8) by 36 5/8 (36 - 1/8).
______________

Now let's figure out the rail & stile length for the 30" x 36" mirror you
already have. The widths of frames & stiles is to be 2 1/2".

Looking at the previous paragraph, you can see that we need to subtract 5/8"
from each mirror dimension to conform to what you have; that means we also
have to subtract 5/8 from the example inside dimensions used in my example
so they would become 29 3/8 x 35 3/8.

You need a frame with inside dimensions of 29 3/8 x 35 3/8. Since the wood
is 2 1/2" wide you need to double that and add to the inside dimensions to
get the length of rails & stiles; doing that gives you 34 3/8 for the rails
and 40 3/8 for the stiles.

In practice, I at least would make the stiles a bit longer - 1/2 to 1",
say - to give myself some jiggle room when assembling. Cut off excess after
it is all together.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

> Thanks for that. SO, you dont think it is a good idea to put the
> mirror in the full groove of the frame?

If you are putting it in a groove you need a little space so it doesn't
bottom out and break as you hook the frame together.

If you are building the frame and intend to insert the mirror into a rabbet
on the back of the frame, you aren't going to break the mirror putting it
into the rabbet but it is still a good ide to have the mirror a smidge
smaller, just makes life easier.

> I am just amazed that most on here seem to from on the way I want to
> do it. Can anyone think of a better way to do it where I can have an
> inside perimeter bead or other decorative edge?

There isn't anything wrong with what you want to do and the bits you have
will do it. Some will say that a 3/8 tongue on the rails is insufficient.
I say it's fine.

The only thing I wouldn't do is put the mirror in a groove. It can never
come out then without destroying the frame. A rabbet on the back of the
frame works just as well and the mirror is easily removeable.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

dadiOH wrote:

I don't know whre my mind was when I wrote the post of mine I am esponding
too but what I wrote was wrong. You have to consider molding width when
figuring stile length but not when determining rail length.

In a perfect world, one in which all planned dimensions actually wind up as
planned...

The rail length needs to be the width of the mirror: 30"

The stile length is height of the mirror + (2 x molding width) - (2 X groove
depth) which is...
36 + (2 x 2.5) - (2 x 3/8) = 40 1/4"

I don't live in a perfect world so I would be making them 30 1/8 and 40 3/8.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

[email protected] wrote:

> I thought rail length had to take into account the thickness of each
> stile plus the 3/8 tennon?

No. Not if your rail ends are butting into the stiles. Which is normal.
Look at the diagram here...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_and_panel
and where it says "panel" substitute "mirror". As you can see, the length
of the rails is the same as the "mirror".

When you cope (cut the profile) on the rail ends part of the result is a
tongue (tenon). That tongue fits into the groove that your other bit cuts
in the stiles just like the mirror (panel) does. Since both mirror and
tenon go into the same groove, both have the same horizontal dimension. For
an exact fit. As I keep saying, I'd make the wood components oversize in
length by 1/8 to avoid breaking the mirror when assembling and clamping.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net