Rockler Visit

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Leon wrote:
>>> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:d7f682fa-d29e-4745-ba76-8d54089c61a8@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>> They're a dying breed, Leon.. literally dying....
>>>
>>> My neighbor here in Houston went with wife for a family reunion in
>>> Michigan. Many of her relatives have worked for the auto industry up
>>> there for many years and they are all hurting. They all admitted that
>>> they saw this coming for many years and were not blaming anyone as they
>>> had it way too good for far too long.
>>
>> 1973 ... there were more NY, NJ, MI, FL, and OH plates during rush hour
>> traffic in Houston then there were TX plates.
>
>
>
> I remember a bumper sticker that was unique to those northern license
> plates. Last one out, turn out the lights!

I think the "NATIVE TEXAN" bumper sticker was born as a result of the
northern invasion.

Dave in Houston

"Robatoy" wrote
>
> Better than a visit to a strip-joint, eh Lee?
>
You know you are getting old when tools are at least as exciting as naked,
gyrating women. And you don't get slapped if you fondle the tools either!
Both are expensive though.

"Doug Miller" wrote
>
> Yep, I gotta agree. I was up at the Woodcraft store yesterday... big ol'
> SawStop cabinet saw on display right inside the door. It was all I could
> do to
> not drool on it... Nice piece of gear, that. Very solid and well-made. And
> as
> soon as I saw "$3,300" in that post I thought, Why? Why spend that on a
> Unisaw
> when you can get a SawStop for basically the same price? It's an
> outstanding
> saw, better IMO than the Unisaw even if it did *not* have the safety
> feature.
>
> SawStop is going to eat Delta for lunch in the table saw market.

What is this thing of putting a big peice of drool worthy equipment right
inside the front door? Does that loosen up the wallets or something?

I haven't seen a Sawstop up close and personal. Maybe I should wander down
to Woodcraft and take a look. Refresh my memory somebody. Where are the
Sawstops made?

"Swingman" wrote
>
> IOW, you ain't done nothing till you've tried your hand at
> designing/building/hanging cabinets on the walls of a "straw bale" house!
>
> Don't ask ... it definitely ain't "natcheral". :)
>
Of course it is natural. And organic...., and environmentally
conscious....., and sustainable....., and GREEEEEEEEEEEENNN!!!!

Pardon me while go someplace and vomit.

"Lew Hodgett" wrote
>
> "Tom Watson" wrote:
>
>> You know...just looking at that makes me start to itch.
>>
>> Why would anyone want to live in a house made from stuff that god
>> intended for cows and horses to shit in?
>
> A few years ago, PBS covered the total construction of a "straw bale
> house".
>
> Can't remember the details, but based on costs at the time, the cost
> differential was recovered in something like 5-8 years.
>
> If I were to build today, fabrication of complete panels in a production
> shop, assembled on the jobsite with a crane and crew, ala the This Old
> House program, would get a very close look.
>
Maybe even include some of Morris' solar panels?

"Swingman" wrote
>
> As a plus, many of these straw bale homes are downright beautiful artworks
> themselves, particularly if you are a fan of Southwestern architecture
> (I'm not, but it is growing on me):
>
<warning - extremely biased response>

WHAT??? You don't like southwestern style architecture????

My wife and I love it. Of course, we spent a weekend together in a
southwestern style house in Carlsbad, CA. Sorta fell in love there and got
married soon after. That was about 27 years ago. Beautiful house, beautiful
relationship, etc.

<wipe away tear>

On Jul 29, 7:46=A0pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:d7f682fa-d29e-4745-ba76-8d54089c61a8@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
>
> They're a dying breed, Leon.. literally dying....
>
> My neighbor here in Houston went with wife for a family reunion in Michig=
an.
> Many of her relatives have worked for the auto industry up there for many
> years and they are all hurting. =A0 They all admitted that they saw this
> coming for many years and were not blaming anyone as they had it way too
> good for far too long.

A customer of mine ( a countertop for his 'cottage' on the Canadian
side) is a bankruptcy lawyer in Michigan.
I listened and was gobsmacked by some of the stories.
I had NO idea that there had been such catastrophic damage done in the
last 8 years.

On Jul 16, 9:30=A0am, RonB <[email protected]> wrote:
> >I had some business near the local Rockler store today and dropped in fo=
r a
> >visit. =A0I haven't been in there for awhile. A lot more tools there now=
.
> > When I walked in the door, therre was the big, new Delta table saw. =A0=
It
> > looked nice and cost about $3,300. What was most interesting to me was =
a
> > signt hat screamed out, "New Unisaw BUILT IN AMERICA!"
>
> I, too suspect "BUILT" is the key word. =A0I'll bet =A0many of the parts
> came from China. =A0Especially castings. =A0I also have to wonder if, at
> $3,300, it is four times the saw as my eight year old Grizzly 1023S.
> (OK, before you do the inflation thing on me, three+ times better than
> currently priced 1023S).
>
> When I started looking for cabinet saws 8-9 years ago I thought it was
> going to be easy. =A0I grew up around old Unisaws and figured I would
> just buy one, until I saw the new ones. =A0They weren't the same saws.
> Other than looking a lot different, I hope the new Unisaw is truly a
> better machine that is worth that kind of money.
>
> RonB

At $ 3300.00, A Unisaur would be in the neighbourhood of a SawStop. By
all accounts an excellent saw. Then there are a few General saws to
choose from in that price-range.
There are too many other saws in that price bracket, including a
Festool plunge with table and tracks.

If I was without saw and had to make a $3K decision, I think I would
re-learn my way of doing things and go track.

Also, $3K buys a nice restorable Altendorf or SCM slider.

>I had some business near the local Rockler store today and dropped in for a
>visit. I haven't been in there for awhile. A lot more tools there now.

> When I walked in the door, therre was the big, new Delta table saw. It
> looked nice and cost about $3,300. What was most interesting to me was a
> signt hat screamed out, "New Unisaw BUILT IN AMERICA!"

I, too suspect "BUILT" is the key word. I'll bet many of the parts
came from China. Especially castings. I also have to wonder if, at
$3,300, it is four times the saw as my eight year old Grizzly 1023S.
(OK, before you do the inflation thing on me, three+ times better than
currently priced 1023S).

When I started looking for cabinet saws 8-9 years ago I thought it was
going to be easy. I grew up around old Unisaws and figured I would
just buy one, until I saw the new ones. They weren't the same saws.
Other than looking a lot different, I hope the new Unisaw is truly a
better machine that is worth that kind of money.

RonB

On Jul 16, 8:54=A0pm, "Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*[email protected]>
wrote:
> "Lew Hodgett" =A0wrote
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Tom Watson" wrote:
>
> >> You know...just looking at that makes me start to itch.
>
> >> Why would anyone want to live in a house made from stuff that god
> >> intended for cows and horses to shit in?
>
> > A few years ago, PBS covered the total construction of a "straw bale
> > house".
>
> > Can't remember the details, but based on costs at the time, the cost
> > differential was recovered in something like 5-8 years.
>
> > If I were to build today, fabrication of complete panels in a productio=
n
> > shop, assembled on the jobsite with a crane and crew, ala the This Old
> > House program, would get a very close look.
>
> Maybe even include some of Morris' solar panels?

That's a gimme for most. But Lew is in the tropics.

In article <[email protected]>, Mark &
Juanita <[email protected]> wrote:

> Where we lived, it was common that one could actually harvest the grain
> from the nurse crop -- the alfalfa didn't grow fast enough to overtake the
> grain.

Was that irrigated or dry land farming? what was the growing season?

Up here in Saskatchewan, I can't picture that scenario. If the alfalfa
isn't growing, it's probably 'cause there's no water for anything.

djb

Tom Watson wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 17:59:39 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>> http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/13525-0.jpg
>>
>
>
> You know...just looking at that makes me start to itch.
>
> Why would anyone want to live in a house made from stuff that god
> intended for cows and horses to shit in?

... and costs approximately 30% more to build than traditional construction.

R48 insulation value is not justification enough for me.

That said, damned few people have accomplished this, and with "green
building" coming to the fore around these parts, I'm now more than
eminently qualified to get my share of the business ... if I should
chose to do so. BTDT, literally from the ground up.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Jul 15, 10:16=A0pm, "Lee Michaels"
<leemichaels*[email protected]> wrote:
> I had some business near the local Rockler store today and dropped in for=
a
> visit. =A0I haven't been in there for awhile. A lot more tools there now.
>
> When I walked in the door, therre was the big, new Delta table saw. =A0It
> looked nice and cost about $3,300. What was most interesting to me was a
> signt hat screamed out, "New Unisaw BUILT IN AMERICA!"
>
> I thought that was interesting that US manufacture was considered a
> marketing point. Also, I didn't know that they still built saws here. I
> thought they went offshore. =A0I wonder if they finally figured out that =
many
> people weren't going to buy a chinese copy of a unisaw.
>
> Another interesting display was the Festools. =A0Talk about getting tool =
envy.
> I saw the Festool sliding miter saw. I looked at the price and it said $1=
30.
> I thought that this could not be right. I looked closer and someone had b=
ent
> the little sign showing the price. I straightened it out and it said $130=
0.
> OK, that is more like it. =A0Obviously somebody's idea of a joke. =A0I wa=
s about
> to buy it even if I already had a miter saw.
>
> Another thing that became obvious looking at the Festool catalog. You can
> spend a $1,000 or more for a basic tool. =A0Then you can spend $20,000 fo=
r
> accessories and consumables! =A0They getcha coming and going.
>
> I drooled a little more, grabbed a catalog and went to my next appointmen=
t.
> Gotta go eat now. My honey is making up some of her world famous barbecue=
d
> chicken pizza..

Better than a visit to a strip-joint, eh Lee?

On Jul 29, 11:21=A0am, scritch <[email protected]> wrote:

[snipped for brevity]
>
> US workers don't want to produce poor products, they want to make
> high-quality products and earn living wages. =A0Always slamming the
> workers is criticizing those who have the least control, and demanding
> constantly lower wages only hastens the race to the bottom and lowers
> general quality of life for our society. =A0Want to live and work in
> Mexico or China?

I will accept the bulk of your argument. We'll ignore those free-
loaders who want big fat paycheques for doing as little as
possible...I believe they are in the low percentages.

Most people would rather do a good job. Those same people take pride
in their work and feel better about their paycheques.

"Tom Watson" wrote:

> You know...just looking at that makes me start to itch.
>
> Why would anyone want to live in a house made from stuff that god
> intended for cows and horses to shit in?

A few years ago, PBS covered the total construction of a "straw bale
house".

Can't remember the details, but based on costs at the time, the cost
differential was recovered in something like 5-8 years.

If I were to build today, fabrication of complete panels in a
production shop, assembled on the jobsite with a crane and crew, ala
the This Old House program, would get a very close look.

Lew

On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 17:59:39 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:


>
>http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/13525-0.jpg
>


You know...just looking at that makes me start to itch.

Why would anyone want to live in a house made from stuff that god
intended for cows and horses to shit in?



Regards,

Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > Another thing that became obvious looking at the Festool catalog. You
can
> > spend a $1,000 or more for a basic tool. Then you can spend $20,000 for
> > accessories and consumables! They getcha coming and going.

> Better than a visit to a strip-joint, eh Lee?

More expensive than any strip joint I've ever been to and that includes
drinks and the stuffing of money in a stripper's g-string.

> > I'd be ok with that as long as there's American quality control
> > involved.
>
> > --
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 -Ed Falk, [email protected]
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/
>
> You are joking I hope. =A0I see "american made" and all I think is
> overpaid union workers and NO quality control. =A0Guess I have just been
> soured by the automobile industry. =A0 =A0Japanese says pride and extreme
> quality control. =A0Think Toyota.
>
> We blew it.
>
> -Jim

Jim - I'd be curious of your age. I suspect that you, like us,
experienced the junk era in American autos. Our experience from that
period to present:

'67 Camero - Pretty good car

69 Olds Cutlass - Fairly good car but problems with bonding of the
vinyl roof

71 Vega GT (say what you will, it was Motor Trend car of the year) -
Absolute trash. During the 18 months we owned it, the car was in the
shop a full three months. One stay for three weeks waiting for rear
axle parts.

74 Old Cutlass - Started serious rusting four months after purchase.
At three years we had to wire the trunk shut because the lock fell out
due to rust. Two water pumps by the time we unloaded at 60,000 No we
don't live in salt-rich environment.

74 Volvo 245 Wagon - Bought used and added 200,000 plus miles.Going
strong when traded for an '86 Blazer which went through three water
pumps, a radiator, a steering sector and countless other parts.

87 Honda - 245,000 miles with very few fixes.

96 Chrysler New Yorker - Great driving car, luxurious. Paint started
peeling at abut 35,000 miles. Couldn't keep door or window seals
installed. Mechanic recommended getting rid of it when it failed
compression test on three cylinders at 71,000 miles.

Three Chevy Pickups (97, 02, 06) - Two of the three had driveshafts
replaced before 6,000 miles. One had and entire rear axle replaced.
The third, a Duramax, has been very good so far

'99 Camry - Currently at 149,000 miles. Needs the driver's window
motor replaced. Period.

Why can't I get emotional over hearing about the poor autoworkers who
have driven themselves out of business? Fully paid health insurance
and big incomes for doing production work are not God-given rights.
In Wichita, Kansas aerospace workers, who build very tightly
controlled airplanes, make about 1/3 to 1/2 of what those guys make.
Figure?

RonB

"Martin H. Eastburn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Decomposes and mold and mildew and rodents to say a few.
> Yes and I'm told on another show those straw bale homes are failing
> and won't last for years.
>
> Martin



A strawbale house built in the right place to tested and proven standards
(they've been doing it for roughly a hundred years) will show your concerns
to be completely baseless. If it's built incorrectly i'm sure it will fail,
much like any other construction.
What show did you see this on?

I've spent 35 years so far visiting an eccentric aunts bale house and it's
never had a single issue. I've been through, over and around another bale
house that is solid and intact at 60 years old.

I'm not trying to convince you to build one, in fact i'd prefer you didn't,
just giving you another point of view.

Y.

On Jul 17, 9:35=A0pm, Tom Veatch <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:53:26 -0700 (PDT), RonB <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >'67 Camero - Pretty good car
>
> 1967 Camero Rally Sport - first NEW car my wife and I owned. Easy to
> work on, power out the ying yang, but a little cramped for a family on
> the road. Sold it with 120,000 miles on the odometer and in excellent
> condition. The engine (327) was still tight with good even compression
> and essentially zero oil consumption. Got more than I paid for it new.
> Feeding it high octane leaded fuel might be a little inconvenient
> these days, but wish I still had it.
>
> Tom Veatch
> Wichita, KS
> USA

But it's more then just reliability, it is also the "feel" of the
car. When I'm in an American car it just feels loose and
unresponsive. We built are share of great muscle cars, but those days
have been gone for too many years to thing about. My first car was a
'65 Mustang, and of course I loved it. I now drive an '02 Mini Cooper
S with 175k on it. This was the first new car I ever bought and it
was number 166 off the line. Even with the "first rev" thing going
against it I have had minimal problems. I got this with just about
all the bells and whistles for ~24k and I would be hard pressed to
find anything in the American stable in that price range that could
come close to the engineering and fun.

I have to agree with Ron. The Unions, while at one time probably a
good idea, basically destroyed an industry and essentially priced
themselves out of business.

-Jim

"Leon" wrote:

> That engine had very little in common with the gasoline engine. No
> parts were enterchangable except perhaps valve cover bolts.

I certainly hope not.

Starting with an engine block casting designed for 9.5:1 compression
ratio and then milling a few "tenths" off the head and block to
approach 20:1 for a diesel.

Let's not even talk about the connecting rods, the crank, the pistons,
etc.

It was not only lousy engineering, it approached placing GM on an
equal to the flim flam man.

------------------------------------------------------
>It's biggest most common problem was an inadequate fuel filtering
>system that did not seperate water from the fuel. Any amount of
>water that went through the injector pump resulted in a very minimum
>of damage to the elisticast ring failure inside the pump. From there
>the water would damage the engine. It was not until 1985, the last
>year that Oldsmobile used that diesel engine that they finally added
>a fuel filter system that would keep water out of the injection
>system. We, the dealership strongly advised every diesel customer to
>add a better, Racor filter system, to their cars. The V6 diesel
>engine suffered the same problem and fate.
----------------------------------------------------

Anybody who has ever had anything to do with a diesel knows how
important fuel filtering is for successful operation.

Along about the time, the small Racor (Which is owned by Parker) was
less than $150 installed most places including sailboat engine
compartments which are a damn sight more confining than auto engine
compartments.

My guess is that even at the highly discounted OEM level, GM was still
not interested.

As far as diesel filters were concerned, there is Racor and there is
Racor.

They build great products.

-------------------------------------------------
> GM was arrogent that way, they did not provide the fuel, it was the
> customers responsibility to find fuel with out water in it. Fat
> chance!
-----------------------------------------------------

Another fine example of "Detroit" building what people didn't want
(Crap that didn't work) for the auto market.

My guess they didn't try that with GM Truck & Coach.

Their customers would have laughed them out of the building.

Bottom line.........................................

That so-called diesel GM offered for the Olds was an hermaphroditic
gang bang, not a diesel engine.

BTW, was told the story of how the head of Buick in Flint, where the
new diesel was to be built, killed a new engine program solely on
cost, by one of my GM contacts at the time.

This guy figured the automotive diesel was just a flash in the pan and
would go away as soon as gasoline prices dropped.

Sound familiar?



Lew

Tom Watson wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 07:24:40 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Yesterday I sanded the face frames of an entire large
>> kitchen, 22 cabinets 120 grit, 150 grit, and 180 grit in about 2.5 hours and
>> left no dust behind during the job.
>>
>
>
> Wow!
>
> That got my attention.
>
> Hmmmm....$$$$.....$$$$....hmmm....
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Tom Watson
> http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

Here are some of those FF's that got Leon's Festool treatment

http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/13525-1.jpg
http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/13525-2.jpg
http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/13525-3.jpg
http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/13525-4.jpg
http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/13525-5.jpg
http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/13525-6.jpg

Leon and I were in this new residential construction all day for three
days this week, in 104 + degree heat, no AC, installing these boxes.
Photos were taken as we left late yesterday afternoon for the 150 mile
trek back to our respective shops, and the relative cool of the Gulf Coast.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Jul 16, 8:58=A0am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jul 16, 9:30=A0am, RonB <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > >I had some business near the local Rockler store today and dropped in =
for a
> > >visit. =A0I haven't been in there for awhile. A lot more tools there n=
ow.
> > > When I walked in the door, therre was the big, new Delta table saw. =
=A0It
> > > looked nice and cost about $3,300. What was most interesting to me wa=
s a
> > > signt hat screamed out, "New Unisaw BUILT IN AMERICA!"
>
> > I, too suspect "BUILT" is the key word. =A0I'll bet =A0many of the part=
s
> > came from China. =A0Especially castings. =A0I also have to wonder if, a=
t
> > $3,300, it is four times the saw as my eight year old Grizzly 1023S.
> > (OK, before you do the inflation thing on me, three+ times better than
> > currently priced 1023S).
>
> > When I started looking for cabinet saws 8-9 years ago I thought it was
> > going to be easy. =A0I grew up around old Unisaws and figured I would
> > just buy one, until I saw the new ones. =A0They weren't the same saws.
> > Other than looking a lot different, I hope the new Unisaw is truly a
> > better machine that is worth that kind of money.
>
> > RonB
>
> At $ 3300.00, A Unisaur would be in the neighbourhood of a SawStop. By
> all accounts an excellent saw. Then there are a few General saws to
> choose from in that price-range.
> There are too many other saws in that price bracket, including a
> Festool plunge with table and tracks.
>
> If I was without saw and had to make a $3K decision, I think I would
> re-learn my way of doing things and go track.
>
> Also, $3K buys a nice restorable Altendorf or SCM slider.

Actually, when I saw the first pictures of the new Unisaw my mind
clicked over to Craftsman of the mid-70's. That is when they started
selling gimmicks and appearance stuff and quit building a descent
grade of power tools. I know that is not appropriate for the new
Deltas (I hope) but that was an impression. Those handwheels are an
attention getter.

RonB

RonB

"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I had some business near the local Rockler store today and dropped in for a
>visit. I haven't been in there for awhile. A lot more tools there now.
>
> When I walked in the door, therre was the big, new Delta table saw. It
> looked nice and cost about $3,300. What was most interesting to me was a
> signt hat screamed out, "New Unisaw BUILT IN AMERICA!"

Built in America, IIRC many of the parts are made in other counties.

>
> I thought that was interesting that US manufacture was considered a
> marketing point. Also, I didn't know that they still built saws here. I
> thought they went offshore. I wonder if they finally figured out that
> many people weren't going to buy a chinese copy of a unisaw.
>
> Another interesting display was the Festools. Talk about getting tool
> envy. I saw the Festool sliding miter saw. I looked at the price and it
> said $130. I thought that this could not be right. I looked closer and
> someone had bent the little sign showing the price. I straightened it out
> and it said $1300. OK, that is more like it. Obviously somebody's idea of
> a joke. I was about to buy it even if I already had a miter saw.
>
> Another thing that became obvious looking at the Festool catalog. You can
> spend a $1,000 or more for a basic tool. Then you can spend $20,000 for
> accessories and consumables! They getcha coming and going.

Festool may be way more tool than you need as far as quality and longetivity
are concerned. I know it certainly is that way for me however I do own 4
Festool Power tools. Yesterday I sanded the face frames of an entire large
kitchen, 22 cabinets 120 grit, 150 grit, and 180 grit in about 2.5 hours and
left no dust behind during the job.

"Tom Watson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:04:12 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
Snip

>
> They look awesome.
>
> (i still wish that you would not run those vertical's all the way to
> the top - don't look natcheral to me :-) )
>
> The thing that got me going was the "NO DUST" part.
>
> I'm gonna have to take a look at these Fusstools.
>
> You boys are rockin'!


I gotta tell you, it's a slippery slope. I got the CT22 Festool Vac with
the Domino, it was recommended by Festool dealer, LOL. Then on Robatoy's
recommendation on the Festool Rotex Sander I got one to replace my 20 year
old PC right angle ROS. When I saw how much dust "there wasn't" after
sanding I naturally had to replace my PC SpeedBloc sander also I was/am
threw with sanding dust. It takes some getting used to, not seeing any
dust on the work and the paper looking brand new when it is worn out.

"Nova" wrote:

> "Toyota Motor Corporation’s health care costs have doubled over the
> past five years to more than $11,000 a year per U.S. worker. In its
> newest plant, The Detroit News reports,(2) Toyota has taken a new
> approach, building a clinic at the factory that provides services,
> including vision checks, dental care, laboratory tests, physical
> therapy, and even pediatric care.

That's how Kaiser got started in WWII.

Lew

"dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> jtpryan wrote:
> ...
>> But it's more then just reliability, it is also the "feel" of the
>> car. When I'm in an American car it just feels loose and
>> unresponsive. ...
>
> That all depends on the car and suspension choices, etc., ...
>
> A Buick LeSabre (or whatever the present replacement is) doesn't have the
> same market niche as a whatever rice-burner...
>
> I'll put my 300M equipped w/ the touring package against most any other
> touring sedan within reasonably comparable price range...


I'll take that challange with my 07 Tundra. LOL

Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> wrote:
>> SteveBell wrote:
>>
>> .... snip
>>> Trivia for today: Hay and straw bales are the same thing, except hay
>>> includes the seed heads.
>>>
>> Umm, no. Straw bales are typically wheat straw after threshing, that much
>> is true. Hay, however, is feed that includes green dried plants such as
>> alfalfa, clover, timothy, bermuda, and other grasses. One can say that
>> grains with the head intact could technically be included as "hay", but
>> I've never heard that usage unless the grain was cut green before fully
>> maturing.
>
> Which is sometimes done. When a field is newly seeded with alfalfa, the plants
> need some protection from the sun for the first two or three months until
> they're well established. It's common to sow oats along with the alfalfa seed;
> the oats sprout earlier and grow faster, providing modest shade to the alfalfa
> seedlings. By the time the alfalfa is ready to cut and bale, the oats have not
> yet matured and so they get mown green, with immature grain heads, and raked
> and baled along with the alfalfa. The result is called "oats hay." And if
> you're planning to store it in a barn for more than a few months, you'd better
> have a *lot* of cats, because you're going to have a lot of mice. DAMHIKT.

LOL ... a country boy, without doubt! Your experience, unlike some of
the other posts in this thread, obviously did not come solely from the
rural areas of the Internet! :)

Wheat straw, which is the most desired for straw bale construction, has
so little nutritional value that even the critters won't choose it as a
desirable place to be. IME, leave it stacked in a barn for months and
you will see relatively few rodents and crawling critters residing
around the stack compared to a hay.

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KarlC@ (the obvious)

jo4hn wrote:


> Their customers were the stock holders and not
> the consumers.

Pithy, dude ..., pithy!

That's precisely what you get with the advent of MBA's.

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KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Lee Michaels" wrote:

> Maybe even include some of Morris' solar panels?

Especially since in the floor hydronic heating would be specified.

Lew

Lee Michaels wrote:
> "Swingman" wrote
>> As a plus, many of these straw bale homes are downright beautiful artworks
>> themselves, particularly if you are a fan of Southwestern architecture
>> (I'm not, but it is growing on me):
>>
> <warning - extremely biased response>
>
> WHAT??? You don't like southwestern style architecture????
>
> My wife and I love it. Of course, we spent a weekend together in a
> southwestern style house in Carlsbad, CA. Sorta fell in love there and got
> married soon after. That was about 27 years ago. Beautiful house, beautiful
> relationship, etc.
>
> <wipe away tear>

Yep! ... that kind of experience definitely has a bearing on your style
of architecture ... Linda and I did precisely the same in NOLA, thus our
home:

http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/homesweethome.jpg

"Beautiful house, beautiful relationship ..." <G>

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KarlC@ (the obvious)

"RonB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:0b1d1fc4-050d-467e-ad79-fd5ff47e4759@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
> >I had some business near the local Rockler store today and dropped in for
> >a
>>visit. I haven't been in there for awhile. A lot more tools there now.
>
>> When I walked in the door, therre was the big, new Delta table saw. It
>> looked nice and cost about $3,300. What was most interesting to me was a
>> signt hat screamed out, "New Unisaw BUILT IN AMERICA!"
>
> I, too suspect "BUILT" is the key word. I'll bet many of the parts
> came from China. Especially castings. I also have to wonder if, at
> $3,300, it is four times the saw as my eight year old Grizzly 1023S.
> (OK, before you do the inflation thing on me, three+ times better than
> currently priced 1023S).

No, I think the saw is way over priced for what you are getting. It is
purdy but so is the SawStop for a few hundred more and you get a lot lot
more safety for your buck. IMHO the new Unisaw is still running 3rd place
behind the latest offferings from SawStop and Powermatic.



>
> When I started looking for cabinet saws 8-9 years ago I thought it was
> going to be easy. I grew up around old Unisaws and figured I would
> just buy one, until I saw the new ones. They weren't the same saws.
> Other than looking a lot different, I hope the new Unisaw is truly a
> better machine that is worth that kind of money.

My money was going towards the Unisaw 10 years ago utlil the 2 dealers that
carried Delta and Jet pointed me toward the Jet and then one of the dealers
pointed out the broken trunion on the Unisaw display model. I still have
the Jet.

Dave in Houston wrote:

>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> It tells me that the Honda and Toyota could afford more R&D and better
>> quality products because employee benefits were not choking the ever
>> living day lights out of all the profit. 5 years ago it was reported
>> that GM was paying in excess of $3K per car built just to pay for
>> employee benefits, that did not include their pay.
>
> Health care benefits cost the auto industry so much money that earlier
> this year I heard someone refer to GM as a health care provider that
> happens to make cars.
>

Sounds like the guy who took over GM as CEO (before Obama [who doesn't
want to run the car companies] fired him.

He made the comment that he came to GM expecting to run a car company.
When he got there, he realized he was running a pension plan that built
cars.

> Dave in Houston

--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I haven't seen a Sawstop up close and personal. Maybe I should wander
> down to Woodcraft and take a look. Refresh my memory somebody. Where are
> the Sawstops made?


Tie-won but engeneered in America

Leon wrote:
> "Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Leon wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>That is all good and well until you consider that those same workers
>>>build Toyota and Honda. The American car workers are way past spoiled
>>>with over paid jobs.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Since it's the "same workers" it tells me more about design and management
>>rather than workers "spoiled with over paid jobs".
>>
>
>
> It tells me that the Honda and Toyota could afford more R&D and better
> quality products because employee benefits were not choking the ever living
> day lights out of all the profit. 5 years ago it was reported that GM was
> paying in excess of $3K per car built just to pay for employee benefits,
> that did not include their pay.
>
>

Wages and benefits for the Toyota and Honda US workers are pretty much
on par with those of the UAW workers. Some items from:

http://www.aftermarketnews.com/Item/28594/uaw_losing_pay_edge_foreign_automakers_bonuses_boost_wages_in_us_plants_as_detroit_car_companies_struggle.aspx

"Toyota Motor Corp. gave workers at its largest U.S. plant bonuses of
$6,000 to $8,000, boosting the average pay at the Georgetown, KY, plant
to the equivalent of $30 an hour. That compares with a $27 hourly
average for UAW workers, most of whom did not receive profit-sharing
checks last year."

"Workers for foreign automakers don't pay union dues, but they do share
the costs of insurance and retirement plans. UAW-represented autoworkers
get health insurance and a full pension after 30 years -- valuable perks
they will fight to keep during contract negotiations this year.

But even accounting for Toyota employees' health care spending -- $700
per year on average, according to the company -- the Georgetown workers
still made more in 2006."

"Honda Motor Co. and Nissan Motor Co. are not far behind Toyota and UAW
pay levels. Comparable wages have long been one way foreign companies
fight off UAW organizing efforts."

"Toyota pays high wages in part to avoid the UAW," Shaiken said, adding
that economists would refer to Toyota's high wages as the "union threat
effect," meaning companies pay union-comparable wages to fend off
organizing efforts and the risk of a strike."

"Assembly workers for Detroit automakers last year remained a bit ahead
of Honda's U.S. hourly workers, who made an average $24.25 an hour, or
$26.20 with the $4,485 bonus they received. In November, Honda paid
bonuses for the 21st consecutive year, the longest streak in U.S. auto
history, said Ed Miller, Honda spokesman.

Nissan workers are paid $24 an hour in Mississippi and $26 an hour in
Tennessee, but company officials would not disclose employee bonuses.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]

"Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>> But do Honda and Toyota pay family health insurance even after the
>> employee dies?
>
> That I don't know but I found this interesting:
>
> "Toyota Motor Corporation’s health care costs have doubled over the past
> five years to more than $11,000 a year per U.S. worker. In its newest
> plant, The Detroit News reports,(2) Toyota has taken a new approach,
> building a clinic at the factory that provides services, including vision
> checks, dental care, laboratory tests, physical therapy, and even
> pediatric care. Companies adopting such practices spend more up front for
> primary care and drugs, but the cost is more than offset by a drop in
> costly hospitalization and specialty care expenses. On-site clinics are
> also expected to reduce absenteeism. Moreover, Toyota clinic physicians
> will not be remunerated on the basis of how many patients they see––the
> U.S. health care system’s prevailing payment structure—but rather
> encourage more time with doctors."

Wow. What's next? I owe my soul to the company store?

Dave in Houston

SteveBell wrote:


> Trivia for today: Hay and straw bales are the same thing, except hay
> includes the seed heads.

Nope ... "hay" has nutritional value and is used for fodder, "straw"
very little nutritional value and is primarily used for bedding.

http://extension.osu.edu/~news/story.php?id=181

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KarlC@ (the obvious)

Leon wrote:
> But do Honda and Toyota pay family health insurance even after the employee
> dies?
>
>

That I don't know but I found this interesting:

"Toyota Motor Corporation’s health care costs have doubled over the past
five years to more than $11,000 a year per U.S. worker. In its newest
plant, The Detroit News reports,(2) Toyota has taken a new approach,
building a clinic at the factory that provides services, including
vision checks, dental care, laboratory tests, physical therapy, and even
pediatric care. Companies adopting such practices spend more up front
for primary care and drugs, but the cost is more than offset by a drop
in costly hospitalization and specialty care expenses. On-site clinics
are also expected to reduce absenteeism. Moreover, Toyota clinic
physicians will not be remunerated on the basis of how many patients
they see––the U.S. health care system’s prevailing payment structure—but
rather encourage more time with doctors."

http://www.kltprc.net/horizon/Chpt_15.htm

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]

J. Clarke wrote:
> Tom Veatch wrote:
>> On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 18:20:26 -0700, evodawg <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> You can actually get a building permit for this 3 little piggy
>>> construction?
>>
>> And a construction/mortgage loan?
>
> Apparently it's covered in the International Building Code so neither
> permits nor loans should be an issue in areas where that code applies.

You're indeed correct. In fact, many municipalities have straw bale
construction codes in areas of the country where it is feasible to build
them. The house in question, while not yet finished, has passed all
local and IRC foundation, framing, and mechanical inspections and is in
strict compliance with local building codes ... AAMOF, it far exceeds
them. The construction loan was not a problem, and a mortgage has been
obtained.

There is understandably a good deal of ignorance regarding the method,
much of it seen in the posts right here, and misconceptions regarding
fire, vermin, and mold are common, but just that - misconceptions based
on ignorance.

http://www.greenhomebuilding.com/pdf/buildingstandards_strawbale.pdf

While I would not build one for myself, after building one for a client
my perception of the construction method has changed to one of
provisional acceptance(post and beam, infill, construction, only)
providing the owner is prepared for the additional cost.

AAMOF, if I hadn't let the cat out of the bag, the fact that this
particular kitchen was destined for a house with straw bale walls, it is
doubtful if even the most observant would have guessed from the photos.

As a plus, many of these straw bale homes are downright beautiful
artworks themselves, particularly if you are a fan of Southwestern
architecture (I'm not, but it is growing on me):

http://www.strawbale.com/straw-bale-photos/album/72157601046087576/straw-bale-residence.html

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KarlC@ (the obvious)

Leon wrote:

> Yesterday I sanded the face frames of an entire large
> kitchen, 22 cabinets 120 grit, 150 grit, and 180 grit in about 2.5 hours and
> left no dust behind during the job.

And the amazing thing was that the construction site fan which was
keeping us from heat stroke, and which periodically took its own rest
break due to the 106 degree temperature in central Texas, was louder by
far than the Festool "shop vac".

The combination sander and vac was pretty cool ... well, not quite
"cool", but nifty as hell. :)

--
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KarlC@ (the obvious)

Decomposes and mold and mildew and rodents to say a few.
Yes and I'm told on another show those straw bale homes are failing
and won't last for years.

Martin

-MIKE- wrote:
>>> You know...just looking at that makes me start to itch.
>>>
>>> Why would anyone want to live in a house made from stuff that god
>>> intended for cows and horses to shit in?
>>
>> A few years ago, PBS covered the total construction of a "straw bale
>> house".
>>
>
> Isn't straw a mold magnet?
>
>

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:d7f682fa-d29e-4745-ba76-8d54089c61a8@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...

They're a dying breed, Leon.. literally dying....

My neighbor here in Houston went with wife for a family reunion in Michigan.
Many of her relatives have worked for the auto industry up there for many
years and they are all hurting. They all admitted that they saw this
coming for many years and were not blaming anyone as they had it way too
good for far too long.

"jo4hn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>>
>>
> There are several reports that Toyota has offered their proprietary hybrid
> technology to GM. The reasoning is to make this technology the world's de
> facto standard.
>
> I also remember reading somewhere that much of the early development of
> this technology was done by GM who sold it to Toyota since GM could not
> see any foreseeable value in it. Can't verify that but it does fit with
> the corporate attitude. Their customers were the stock holders and not
> the consumers.
> gloomy gus,
> jo4hn


I suspect that GM was too arrogant to accept that technology although they
let Toyota build the mid 80's Chevy Nova and later on some of the Geo
models.

"Swingman" wrote:

> 1973 ... there were more NY, NJ, MI, FL, and OH plates during rush
> hour traffic in Houston then there were TX plates.

Along about that time, spent a few days in Houston calling on the
engineering houses chasing some jobs.

Damn the pickings were easy.

Thought for a minute I had arrived with a carpet bag.

I swear, had I spent another week there, might still be in Houston
rather than SoCal.

Lew

Jay Pique wrote:
> On Jul 16, 7:23 pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Tom Watson wrote:
>>> On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 17:59:39 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/13525-0.jpg
>>> You know...just looking at that makes me start to itch.
>>> Why would anyone want to live in a house made from stuff that god
>>> intended for cows and horses to shit in?
>> ... and costs approximately 30% more to build than traditional construction.
>>
>> R48 insulation value is not justification enough for me.
>>
>> That said, damned few people have accomplished this, and with "green
>> building" coming to the fore around these parts, I'm now more than
>> eminently qualified to get my share of the business ... if I should
>> chose to do so. BTDT, literally from the ground up.
>
> My guess is that it's still a long ways cheaper than the LEED Silver
> home I just got back from. Isocyenene ain't cheap either.

AAMOF, I used a newer form of Icynene on the interior of the traditional
frame walls, as well as the underside of the ceiling and the crawlspace.
I convinced the owner that there was little sense in having walls of R48
and the rest of the envelope at R16/32, and the attic in this house is
in the thermal building envelope also:

http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/13525-7.jpg

The cost for this "icynene" type insulation was about three times the
cost of traditional batting or blown in cellulose.

We contemplated going for LEEDS certification on this particular house,
but although I'm absolutely certain it would qualify as it now stands,
the owner left the original planning in the hands of an unqualified
"builder/designer" and much of LEEDS certification is based on Energy
Star rating requirements, which have to be taken into consideration in
the planning stage and require third party participation, which the
original "builder/designer" failed to apply to.

It's a shame, as I would like to have had a LEEDS house under my belt
and this was an excellent opportunity to do so.

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KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Tom Watson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 07:24:40 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>Yesterday I sanded the face frames of an entire large
>>kitchen, 22 cabinets 120 grit, 150 grit, and 180 grit in about 2.5 hours
>>and
>>left no dust behind during the job.
>>
>
>
> Wow!
>
> That got my attention.
>
> Hmmmm....$$$$.....$$$$....hmmm....


YEAH!!!!!!

Hmmmm....$$$$.....$$$$....hmmm....

D'ju hear that Swingman? ROTFL

RonB wrote:

>> > I'd be ok with that as long as there's American quality control
>> > involved.
>>
>> > --
>> > -Ed Falk, [email protected]
>> > http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/
>>
>> You are joking I hope.  I see "american made" and all I think is
>> overpaid union workers and NO quality control.  Guess I have just been
>> soured by the automobile industry.    Japanese says pride and extreme
>> quality control.  Think Toyota.
>>
>> We blew it.
>>
>> -Jim
>
> Jim - I'd be curious of your age. I suspect that you, like us,
> experienced the junk era in American autos. Our experience from that
> period to present:
>
> '67 Camero - Pretty good car
... snip

My experiences:

59 Studebaker Lark -- bought from my aunt while I was in High School. 'nuff
said.

70 Pontiac Le Mans -- Really my folks' car, but I got to drive it to
college, as did my brother, and my younger sister drove it through her high
school driving years. Great car, great pick-up and go. Lousy on snow and
ice. Maintenance -- One water pump, one oil pan (my fault, hit a chunk of
concrete that had fallen off a truck onto the highway. Worst things:
couldn't change one of the spark plugs because of where it was located,
when the heater fan went out, they had to cut a hole in the front fender to
get at the motor.

81 Chevy Malibu -- OK car, no major problems, finish sucked -- started
spider webbing after 2 years.

85 Chevy Nova (85 Chevy Corrolla equivalent)-- Good car, got rid of it at
~117k miles when it started using a lot of oil. Probably not its fault,
the bulk of its life was spent when we lived only 10 minutes from work, so
it got a lot of short trips during its life.

88 Sterling -- Fun car to drive, zippy, nicely appointed. Absolute piece of
crap. I drove the dealership loaner car almost as often as the Sterling
during the 3 year warranty period. Engine and power train by Lexus
performed well except for a water pump. Everything else was junk. Got rid
of it at 80k miles and that wasn't soon enough. As bad as some of the
Detroit stuff has been, it is orders of magnitude more reliable than
British automobiles. Rolls may be an exception, but the Sterling was
certainly not a low-end cheap transportation vehicle.

92 Ford Explorer -- Great vehicle and reliable up to 95k miles; after that
stuff just kept breaking. No single type of failure, just one thing after
another.

97 Ford F-150. ~115k miles so far with minimal issues. Hopefully will last
10 more years.

02 Toyota Sequoia ~130k miles. Reliable, solid vehicle. Only
disappointment has been the plastic parts (fasteners mostly for various
compartments and covers), they don't stand up to the vibration environment
of a rock/dirt road and the Arizona heat. Otherwise this has been a solid
car that we are looking at getting better than 200k miles.

>
> Why can't I get emotional over hearing about the poor autoworkers who
> have driven themselves out of business? Fully paid health insurance
> and big incomes for doing production work are not God-given rights.
> In Wichita, Kansas aerospace workers, who build very tightly
> controlled airplanes, make about 1/3 to 1/2 of what those guys make.
> Figure?
>

The nail in the coffin for these companies is the pensions and the
benefits that continue long after the workers have left the company. Can't
totally excuse the corporations, they made the deals with the unions -- it
was an expediency thing, get the production lines rolling again in the 60's
and 70's and kick the liability can down the road. Unfortunately for the
car companies, the bill is coming due and they are paying the price for the
expediency of settling those strikes. Both the companies and the workers
lose, the union bosses are the ones pretty much coming out rolling in dough
(or at least company control and stock).

> RonB

--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

Tom Veatch wrote:

> On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:53:26 -0700 (PDT), RonB <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>'67 Camero - Pretty good car
>
> 1967 Camero Rally Sport - first NEW car my wife and I owned. Easy to
> work on, power out the ying yang, but a little cramped for a family on
> the road. Sold it with 120,000 miles on the odometer and in excellent
> condition. The engine (327) was still tight with good even compression
> and essentially zero oil consumption.

That series of engines was nigh unto indestructible -- 327, 350, etc The
bodies would fall down around the engines before they failed.



> Got more than I paid for it new.
> Feeding it high octane leaded fuel might be a little inconvenient
> these days, but wish I still had it.
>
> Tom Veatch
> Wichita, KS
> USA

--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

SteveBell wrote:

... snip
>
> Trivia for today: Hay and straw bales are the same thing, except hay
> includes the seed heads.
>

Umm, no. Straw bales are typically wheat straw after threshing, that much
is true. Hay, however, is feed that includes green dried plants such as
alfalfa, clover, timothy, bermuda, and other grasses. One can say that
grains with the head intact could technically be included as "hay", but
I've never heard that usage unless the grain was cut green before fully
maturing.


--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

Leon wrote:

>
>
> That is all good and well until you consider that those same workers build
> Toyota and Honda. The American car workers are way past spoiled with over
> paid jobs.
>
>
>

Since it's the "same workers" it tells me more about design and
management rather than workers "spoiled with over paid jobs".

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]

Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Leon" wrote:
[snip]

> gang bang, not a diesel engine.
>
> BTW, was told the story of how the head of Buick in Flint, where the
> new diesel was to be built, killed a new engine program solely on
> cost, by one of my GM contacts at the time.
>
> This guy figured the automotive diesel was just a flash in the pan and
> would go away as soon as gasoline prices dropped.
>
> Sound familiar?
>
>
>
> Lew
>
>
There are several reports that Toyota has offered their proprietary
hybrid technology to GM. The reasoning is to make this technology the
world's de facto standard.

I also remember reading somewhere that much of the early development of
this technology was done by GM who sold it to Toyota since GM could not
see any foreseeable value in it. Can't verify that but it does fit with
the corporate attitude. Their customers were the stock holders and not
the consumers.
gloomy gus,
jo4hn

Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
> They don't last long.

Your ignorance is showing ...


> Martin
>
> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> "Tom Watson" wrote:
>>
>>> You know...just looking at that makes me start to itch.
>>>
>>> Why would anyone want to live in a house made from stuff that god
>>> intended for cows and horses to shit in?
>>
>> A few years ago, PBS covered the total construction of a "straw bale
>> house".
>>
>> Can't remember the details, but based on costs at the time, the cost
>> differential was recovered in something like 5-8 years.
>>
>> If I were to build today, fabrication of complete panels in a
>> production shop, assembled on the jobsite with a crane and crew, ala
>> the This Old House program, would get a very close look.
>>
>> Lew
>>
>>
>>


--
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KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" wote:

> http://extension.osu.edu/~news/story.php?id=181

Glad to see you used The Ohio State University as a source<G>.

Lew

On Jul 16, 7:23=A0pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> Tom Watson wrote:
> > On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 17:59:39 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/13525-0.jpg
>
> > You know...just looking at that makes me start to itch.
>
> > Why would anyone want to live in a house made from stuff that god
> > intended for cows and horses to shit in?
>
> ... and costs approximately 30% more to build than traditional constructi=
on.
>
> R48 insulation value is not justification enough for me.
>
> That said, damned few people have accomplished this, and with "green
> building" coming to the fore around these parts, I'm now more than
> eminently qualified to get my share of the business ... if I should
> chose to do so. BTDT, literally from the ground up.

My guess is that it's still a long ways cheaper than the LEED Silver
home I just got back from. Isocyenene ain't cheap either.

JP

"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" wrote:
>
>> That engine had very little in common with the gasoline engine. No parts
>> were enterchangable except perhaps valve cover bolts.
>
> I certainly hope not.
>
> Starting with an engine block casting designed for 9.5:1 compression ratio
> and then milling a few "tenths" off the head and block to approach 20:1
> for a diesel.
>
> Let's not even talk about the connecting rods, the crank, the pistons,
> etc.


It "looked" similar but IIRC the injector pump and distributor were in
different locations on the engines, they both were driven by the cam. IIRC
the mains were 4 bolt and eventually GM used roller lifters. The Olds
engine that the diesel looked like used pivots to paor the rocker arms, the
diesel did not. The heads we totally different animals with glow plug
chambers.


> It was not only lousy engineering, it approached placing GM on an equal to
> the flim flam man.

I'll not argue with you there, the fuel system was a hodge podge of
reputable manufacturers but virtually no diesel fuel filtration set up.


> ------------------------------------------------------
>>It's biggest most common problem was an inadequate fuel filtering system
>>that did not seperate water from the fuel. Any amount of water that went
>>through the injector pump resulted in a very minimum of damage to the
>>elisticast ring failure inside the pump. From there the water would
>>damage the engine. It was not until 1985, the last year that Oldsmobile
>>used that diesel engine that they finally added a fuel filter system that
>>would keep water out of the injection system. We, the dealership strongly
>>advised every diesel customer to add a better, Racor filter system, to
>>their cars. The V6 diesel engine suffered the same problem and fate.
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> Anybody who has ever had anything to do with a diesel knows how important
> fuel filtering is for successful operation.

Successful operation and engine longetivity.


>
> Along about the time, the small Racor (Which is owned by Parker) was less
> than $150 installed most places including sailboat engine compartments
> which are a damn sight more confining than auto engine compartments.
>
> My guess is that even at the highly discounted OEM level, GM was still not
> interested.

IIRC we were buying the units for about $125, 25 years ago. In 1985 I saw a
very similar unit come equiped from the factory.


> As far as diesel filters were concerned, there is Racor and there is
> Racor.
>
> They build great products.
>
> -------------------------------------------------
>> GM was arrogent that way, they did not provide the fuel, it was the
>> customers responsibility to find fuel with out water in it. Fat chance!
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
> Another fine example of "Detroit" building what people didn't want (Crap
> that didn't work) for the auto market.
>
> My guess they didn't try that with GM Truck & Coach.


> Their customers would have laughed them out of the building.
>
> Bottom line.........................................
>
> That so-called diesel GM offered for the Olds was an hermaphroditic gang
> bang, not a diesel engine.
>
> BTW, was told the story of how the head of Buick in Flint, where the new
> diesel was to be built, killed a new engine program solely on cost, by one
> of my GM contacts at the time.
>
> This guy figured the automotive diesel was just a flash in the pan and
> would go away as soon as gasoline prices dropped.
>
> Sound familiar?

Oddly the diesel car engine is making a come back but the new emission laws
restricting sulfur content has retarded the come back.

On Jul 15, 10:16=A0pm, "Lee Michaels"
<leemichaels*[email protected]> wrote:
> I had some business near the local Rockler store today and dropped in for=
a
> visit. =A0I haven't been in there for awhile. A lot more tools there now.
>
> When I walked in the door, therre was the big, new Delta table saw. =A0It
> looked nice and cost about $3,300. What was most interesting to me was a
> signt hat screamed out, "New Unisaw BUILT IN AMERICA!"
>
> I thought that was interesting that US manufacture was considered a
> marketing point. Also, I didn't know that they still built saws here. I
> thought they went offshore. =A0I wonder if they finally figured out that =
many
> people weren't going to buy a chinese copy of a unisaw.
>
> Another interesting display was the Festools. =A0Talk about getting tool =
envy.
> I saw the Festool sliding miter saw. I looked at the price and it said $1=
30.
> I thought that this could not be right. I looked closer and someone had b=
ent
> the little sign showing the price. I straightened it out and it said $130=
0.
> OK, that is more like it. =A0Obviously somebody's idea of a joke. =A0I wa=
s about
> to buy it even if I already had a miter saw.
>
> Another thing that became obvious looking at the Festool catalog. You can
> spend a $1,000 or more for a basic tool. =A0Then you can spend $20,000 fo=
r
> accessories and consumables! =A0They getcha coming and going.
>
> I drooled a little more, grabbed a catalog and went to my next appointmen=
t.
> Gotta go eat now. My honey is making up some of her world famous barbecue=
d
> chicken pizza..

It's worse than that - they have a DVD. True tool porn, with machines
that purr in your ear as you're drooling over the video. There oughta
be a law - or at least a woodworker bailout program. ;)

R

Doug Miller wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>, Mark &
> Juanita <[email protected]> wrote:
>>SteveBell wrote:
>>
>>.... snip
>>>
>>> Trivia for today: Hay and straw bales are the same thing, except hay
>>> includes the seed heads.
>>>
>>
>> Umm, no. Straw bales are typically wheat straw after threshing, that
>> much
>>is true. Hay, however, is feed that includes green dried plants such as
>>alfalfa, clover, timothy, bermuda, and other grasses. One can say that
>>grains with the head intact could technically be included as "hay", but
>>I've never heard that usage unless the grain was cut green before fully
>>maturing.
>
> Which is sometimes done. When a field is newly seeded with alfalfa, the
> plants need some protection from the sun for the first two or three months
> until they're well established. It's common to sow oats along with the
> alfalfa seed; the oats sprout earlier and grow faster, providing modest
> shade to the alfalfa seedlings. By the time the alfalfa is ready to cut
> and bale, the oats have not yet matured and so they get mown green, with
> immature grain heads, and raked and baled along with the alfalfa.

Where we lived, it was common that one could actually harvest the grain
from the nurse crop -- the alfalfa didn't grow fast enough to overtake the
grain.

> The
> result is called "oats hay." And if you're planning to store it in a barn
> for more than a few months, you'd better have a *lot* of cats, because
> you're going to have a lot of mice. DAMHIKT.

:-)


--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

On Jul 16, 4:33=A0pm, [email protected] (Edward A. Falk) wrote:
> In article <[email protected]=
.com>,
>
> RonB =A0<[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I, too suspect "BUILT" is the key word. =A0I'll bet =A0many of the parts
> >came from China. =A0..
>
> I'd be ok with that as long as there's American quality control
> involved.
>
> --
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 -Ed Falk, [email protected]
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/

You are joking I hope. I see "american made" and all I think is
overpaid union workers and NO quality control. Guess I have just been
soured by the automobile industry. Japanese says pride and extreme
quality control. Think Toyota.

We blew it.

-Jim

They don't last long.
Martin

Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Tom Watson" wrote:
>
>> You know...just looking at that makes me start to itch.
>>
>> Why would anyone want to live in a house made from stuff that god
>> intended for cows and horses to shit in?
>
> A few years ago, PBS covered the total construction of a "straw bale
> house".
>
> Can't remember the details, but based on costs at the time, the cost
> differential was recovered in something like 5-8 years.
>
> If I were to build today, fabrication of complete panels in a
> production shop, assembled on the jobsite with a crane and crew, ala
> the This Old House program, would get a very close look.
>
> Lew
>
>
>

On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 07:24:40 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Yesterday I sanded the face frames of an entire large
>kitchen, 22 cabinets 120 grit, 150 grit, and 180 grit in about 2.5 hours and
>left no dust behind during the job.
>


Wow!

That got my attention.

Hmmmm....$$$$.....$$$$....hmmm....



Regards,

Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

On Jul 29, 2:03=A0pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "scritch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
>
>
> > jtpryan wrote:
>
> >> You are joking I hope. =A0I see "american made" and all I think is
> >> overpaid union workers and NO quality control. =A0Guess I have just be=
en
> >> soured by the automobile industry. =A0 =A0Japanese says pride and extr=
eme
> >> quality control. =A0Think Toyota.
>
> >> We blew it.
>
> >> -Jim
>
> > Before you go off on US workers, consider a few points:
>
> > - They don't control the design of the parts they are supposed to
> > assemble, that's up to the engineers.
>
> > - Those engineers are told to design within certain cost limits by the
> > bean counters and managers.
>
> > - They don't control the quality of the parts they are supposed to
> > assemble, that's up to the bean counters and managers who specify cost =
and
> > suppliers for those parts.
>
> > - There are some structural problems with US corporations which almost
> > inevitably lead to lower quality and higher prices. =A0These include bu=
t are
> > not limited to laws which require short-term profit-seeking for
> > shareholders over long-term company health, laws that allow for control=
of
> > corporations by boards of directors who set their own salaries but are =
not
> > accountable to the shareholders, laws which allow corporate personhood,
> > and ridiculous health care costs due to a dysfunctional health care
> > delivery system.
>
> > US workers don't want to produce poor products, they want to make
> > high-quality products and earn living wages. =A0Always slamming the wor=
kers
> > is criticizing those who have the least control, and demanding constant=
ly
> > lower wages only hastens the race to the bottom and lowers general qual=
ity
> > of life for our society. =A0Want to live and work in Mexico or China?
>
> That is all good and well until you consider that those same workers buil=
d
> Toyota and Honda. =A0The American car workers are way past spoiled with o=
ver
> paid jobs.

They're a dying breed, Leon.. literally dying....

"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:d7f682fa-d29e-4745-ba76-8d54089c61a8@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> They're a dying breed, Leon.. literally dying....
>>
>> My neighbor here in Houston went with wife for a family reunion in
>> Michigan. Many of her relatives have worked for the auto industry up
>> there for many years and they are all hurting. They all admitted that
>> they saw this coming for many years and were not blaming anyone as they
>> had it way too good for far too long.
>
> 1973 ... there were more NY, NJ, MI, FL, and OH plates during rush hour
> traffic in Houston then there were TX plates.



I remember a bumper sticker that was unique to those northern license
plates. Last one out, turn out the lights!

Leon wrote:
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:d7f682fa-d29e-4745-ba76-8d54089c61a8@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
>
> They're a dying breed, Leon.. literally dying....
>
> My neighbor here in Houston went with wife for a family reunion in Michigan.
> Many of her relatives have worked for the auto industry up there for many
> years and they are all hurting. They all admitted that they saw this
> coming for many years and were not blaming anyone as they had it way too
> good for far too long.

1973 ... there were more NY, NJ, MI, FL, and OH plates during rush hour
traffic in Houston then there were TX plates.

The more things change ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Tom Watson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> The thing that got me going was the "NO DUST" part.
> I'm gonna have to take a look at these Fusstools.

In the vein of dust free, you should have a look at Festool's website. They
have a video of a router with an attached Festool vacuum cutting a dado and
there's very little dust to be seen.

On Jul 30, 11:16=A0am, "charlie" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Leon wrote:
> >> But do Honda and Toyota pay family health insurance even after the
> >> employee dies?
>
> > That I don't know but I found this interesting:
>
> > "Toyota Motor Corporation=92s health care costs have doubled over the p=
ast
> > five years to more than $11,000 a year per U.S. worker. In its newest
> > plant, The Detroit News reports,(2) Toyota has taken a new approach,
> > building a clinic at the factory that provides services, including visi=
on
> > checks, dental care, laboratory tests, physical therapy, and even
> > pediatric care. Companies adopting such practices spend more up front f=
or
> > primary care and drugs, but the cost is more than offset by a drop in
> > costly hospitalization and specialty care expenses. On-site clinics are
> > also expected to reduce absenteeism. Moreover, Toyota clinic physicians
> > will not be remunerated on the basis of how many patients they see=96=
=96the
> > U.S. health care system=92s prevailing payment structure=97but rather
> > encourage more time with doctors."
>
> >http://www.kltprc.net/horizon/Chpt_15.htm
>
> > --
> > Jack Novak
> > Buffalo, NY - USA
> > [email protected]
>
> kinda puts paid to the excuse 'too sick to go to work' on monday mornings=
.

Seeing as they are on the company's payroll, somebody's interests will
be served more? The patient?

But do Honda and Toyota pay family health insurance even after the employee
dies?

"scritch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> jtpryan wrote:
>>
>> You are joking I hope. I see "american made" and all I think is
>> overpaid union workers and NO quality control. Guess I have just been
>> soured by the automobile industry. Japanese says pride and extreme
>> quality control. Think Toyota.
>>
>> We blew it.
>>
>> -Jim
>
> Before you go off on US workers, consider a few points:
>
> - They don't control the design of the parts they are supposed to
> assemble, that's up to the engineers.
>
> - Those engineers are told to design within certain cost limits by the
> bean counters and managers.
>
> - They don't control the quality of the parts they are supposed to
> assemble, that's up to the bean counters and managers who specify cost and
> suppliers for those parts.
>
> - There are some structural problems with US corporations which almost
> inevitably lead to lower quality and higher prices. These include but are
> not limited to laws which require short-term profit-seeking for
> shareholders over long-term company health, laws that allow for control of
> corporations by boards of directors who set their own salaries but are not
> accountable to the shareholders, laws which allow corporate personhood,
> and ridiculous health care costs due to a dysfunctional health care
> delivery system.
>
> US workers don't want to produce poor products, they want to make
> high-quality products and earn living wages. Always slamming the workers
> is criticizing those who have the least control, and demanding constantly
> lower wages only hastens the race to the bottom and lowers general quality
> of life for our society. Want to live and work in Mexico or China?

That is all good and well until you consider that those same workers build
Toyota and Honda. The American car workers are way past spoiled with over
paid jobs.

On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 18:20:26 -0700, evodawg <[email protected]>
wrote:

>You can actually get a building permit for this 3 little piggy construction?


And a construction/mortgage loan?

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

In article <[email protected]>,
Lee Michaels <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>When I walked in the door, therre was the big, new Delta table saw. It
>looked nice and cost about $3,300. What was most interesting to me was a
>sign that screamed out, "New Unisaw BUILT IN AMERICA!"
>
>I thought that was interesting that US manufacture was considered a
>marketing point.

"Still"? Was it ever not a marketing point? To me, it is and always has
been a HUGE marketing point. Given a choice, I always take American made
over any other option (ok, maybe except for Japanese hand tools.)

It warms my heart to know that you can still get an American-made Delta
table saw. I'd run right out now and buy one if I didn't already have
one. And if I had $3300 to spare.

--
-Ed Falk, [email protected]
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/

In article <0b1d1fc4-050d-467e-ad79-fd5ff47e4759@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
RonB <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>I, too suspect "BUILT" is the key word. I'll bet many of the parts
>came from China. ..

I'd be ok with that as long as there's American quality control
involved.

--
-Ed Falk, [email protected]
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/

In article <[email protected]>, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"RonB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:0b1d1fc4-050d-467e-ad79-fd5ff47e4759@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>> >I had some business near the local Rockler store today and dropped in for
>> >a
>>>visit. I haven't been in there for awhile. A lot more tools there now.
>>
>>> When I walked in the door, therre was the big, new Delta table saw. It
>>> looked nice and cost about $3,300. What was most interesting to me was a
>>> signt hat screamed out, "New Unisaw BUILT IN AMERICA!"
>>
>> I, too suspect "BUILT" is the key word. I'll bet many of the parts
>> came from China. Especially castings. I also have to wonder if, at
>> $3,300, it is four times the saw as my eight year old Grizzly 1023S.
>> (OK, before you do the inflation thing on me, three+ times better than
>> currently priced 1023S).
>
>No, I think the saw is way over priced for what you are getting. It is
>purdy but so is the SawStop for a few hundred more and you get a lot lot
>more safety for your buck. IMHO the new Unisaw is still running 3rd place
>behind the latest offferings from SawStop and Powermatic.
>
Yep, I gotta agree. I was up at the Woodcraft store yesterday... big ol'
SawStop cabinet saw on display right inside the door. It was all I could do to
not drool on it... Nice piece of gear, that. Very solid and well-made. And as
soon as I saw "$3,300" in that post I thought, Why? Why spend that on a Unisaw
when you can get a SawStop for basically the same price? It's an outstanding
saw, better IMO than the Unisaw even if it did *not* have the safety feature.

SawStop is going to eat Delta for lunch in the table saw market.

Tom Watson wrote:

> On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 17:59:39 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/13525-0.jpg
>>
>
>
> You know...just looking at that makes me start to itch.
>
> Why would anyone want to live in a house made from stuff that god
> intended for cows and horses to shit in?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Tom Watson
> http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
I guess smoking in this house is out of the question!!!
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/

Swingman wrote:

> Tom Watson wrote:
>> On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 17:59:39 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/13525-0.jpg
>>>
>>
>>
>> You know...just looking at that makes me start to itch.
>>
>> Why would anyone want to live in a house made from stuff that god
>> intended for cows and horses to shit in?
>
> ... and costs approximately 30% more to build than traditional
> construction.
>
> R48 insulation value is not justification enough for me.
>
> That said, damned few people have accomplished this, and with "green
> building" coming to the fore around these parts, I'm now more than
> eminently qualified to get my share of the business ... if I should
> chose to do so. BTDT, literally from the ground up.
>
You can actually get a building permit for this 3 little piggy construction?
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/

In article <[email protected]>, "Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote:

>What is this thing of putting a big peice of drool worthy equipment right
>inside the front door? Does that loosen up the wallets or something?

:-)
>
>I haven't seen a Sawstop up close and personal. Maybe I should wander down
>to Woodcraft and take a look. Refresh my memory somebody. Where are the
>Sawstops made?

Taiwan, IIRC, but I'm not sure.

>> You know...just looking at that makes me start to itch.
>>
>> Why would anyone want to live in a house made from stuff that god
>> intended for cows and horses to shit in?
>
> A few years ago, PBS covered the total construction of a "straw bale
> house".
>

Isn't straw a mold magnet?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Lee Michaels wrote:

> Maybe even include some of Morris' solar panels?

I like the way you think! :)

With R-48 insulation, it wouldn't take much panel area to keep the place
cozy all through the winter - and since the panels operate in the 110F
temperature range (slightly higher temperatures at higher altitudes - to
a max operating temperature of 125F at 5,000 feet) there'd be no fire
hazard from the heating system.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Tom Veatch wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 18:20:26 -0700, evodawg <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> You can actually get a building permit for this 3 little piggy
>> construction?
>
>
> And a construction/mortgage loan?

Apparently it's covered in the International Building Code so neither
permits nor loans should be an issue in areas where that code applies.

RonB wrote:
...
> Three Chevy Pickups (97, 02, 06) - Two of the three had driveshafts
> replaced before 6,000 miles. One had and entire rear axle replaced.
> The third, a Duramax, has been very good so far
...

More Chevy pickups than I can actually remember for absolute beginning
w/ '58, 2 (3?) thru 60s, 72, 78, 86, 98, 99 at least.

72, 86 both still everyday work trucks, none ever more than routine
maintenance and all worked _hard_ daily including pulling anhydrous
fertilizer trailers in deep sandy fields, living w/ 250 gal diesel tank
in back, pulling stock trailers, etc., etc., etc., ... Don't recall any
that didn't have at least 150k. I take it back, I did rebuild the 72 at
150k as I was using it as personal vehicle by then and liked it muchly.

We did purposely avoid the round fender era beginning in 73 but other
than that, Chevy has always worked for me...

BTW, I'm still using the '58 C60 altho not every day as a main truck;
it's simply too small for today's operation at only 350-375 bu capacity.

--

Swingman | 2009-07-16 | 6:23:07 PM wrote:

>... and costs approximately 30% more to build than traditional
>construction.
>
>R48 insulation value is not justification enough for me.
>
>That said, damned few people have accomplished this, and with "green
>building" coming to the fore around these parts, I'm now more than
>eminently qualified to get my share of the business ... if I should
>chose to do so. BTDT, literally from the ground up.

I looked into straw bale construction for a garden wall a couple of
years ago. Texas was in the middle of a drought at the time, so bales
were expensive if you could even find them. The client lived next to a
busy street, and she wanted a wall to deaden traffic noise.

Long story short, an eight-foot-tall 90-foot-long straw bale fence
would be more than $20,000 dollars.
* concrete footer with four-foot re-bar sticking up and galvanized
nails sticking down at soil level
* straw bales stacked in running bond to eight feet (speared on re-bar)
* chicken wire covering bales and cinched to nails in footer
* stucco covering all

Trivia for today: Hay and straw bales are the same thing, except hay
includes the seed heads.

--
Steve Bell
New Life Home Improvement
Arlington, TX USA

Lew Hodgett wrote:

> "RonB" wrote:
> -----------------------------------------------------
>>Jim - I'd be curious of your age. I suspect that you, like us,
> experienced the junk era in American autos. Our experience from that
> period to present:
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
> I come from the post WWII era.
>
> The world stopped for me with the 50 Merc whose headlights will be
> remembered by all those who found a use other than driving at night
> for them
>
> Buick sucked with the change in model years being denoted by how many
> chrome rings were on each side during the '50s.
>
> Bigger tail fins were the answer for innovative design.
>
> Olds 88 and Olds 98 which was an 88 with a longer trunk.
>
> Ford saved the decade of the '50s with the first thunder chicken.
>
> Too bad they screwed it up.
>
> Never could figure out what made people go gaga for a '57 Chevy.
>
> 1960 gave us Detroit's answer to the "Bug", the Corvair from GM and
> can't remember what Ford and Chrysler called their crap but all were
> duds.
>
> Had a '65 Ford Fairlane 500 hard top with a 289 and a cable release
> for the trunk.
>
> I thought I was the cat's ass when I pulled up to the grocery store
> loading lane and popped the trunk so the kids could load the
> groceries.
>
> I sold that car when my job included a furnished car, but as far as I
> know, whoever ended up with it liked the car.
>
> Then came the Muskrat in '64, what a tin can.
>
> The next 50 years were all down hill.
>
> Detroit wouldn't build what people wanted to buy and what they built
> was crap.
>
> GMs refusal to build a diesel engine line but rather tried to raise
> the compression of a gasoline engine for the Olds.
>
> It was doomed before you turned the ignition switch.
>
> Detroit did it with their own shovel.
>
> They dug a deep hole and ran right down into it.
>
> Yes we need the talent and the knowledge that id "Detroit", but it
> will come at a BIG
> price.
>
> Off the stump.
>
> Lew
I don't know about the rest of the next 50 years being crap. I loved my 69
Chevelle so much in High School I found another in 1999 and completely
restored it. Loving it again but more appreciative this time around.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/

Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "RonB" wrote:
> -----------------------------------------------------
>> Jim - I'd be curious of your age. I suspect that you, like us,
> experienced the junk era in American autos. Our experience from that
> period to present:
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
> I come from the post WWII era.
>
> The world stopped for me with the 50 Merc whose headlights will be
> remembered by all those who found a use other than driving at night
> for them
>
> Buick sucked with the change in model years being denoted by how many
> chrome rings were on each side during the '50s.

The number of chrome rings has always denoted the number of cylinders--six
cylinders had 3 to a side, eights had 4. If the GM 12 ever actually goes
into production then no doubt those will have 6 to a side.

> Bigger tail fins were the answer for innovative design.
>
> Olds 88 and Olds 98 which was an 88 with a longer trunk.
>
> Ford saved the decade of the '50s with the first thunder chicken.
>
> Too bad they screwed it up.

Thunderchicken never impressed me all that much--it didn't know what it
wanted to be--they tried to make it a Corvette competitor but any random
Corvette would kick it's ass, then they tried to make it a luxury car with
no back seat to speak of (the one with suicide doors entering into a seat
that made an XKE-2+2 look like a Checker Marathon was a riot), then it was
just another nondescript car with no character to speak of for a while. If
they had just priced it like a Mustang they'd have gained a decade on the
industry and sold a zillion of them.

> Never could figure out what made people go gaga for a '57 Chevy.

Three little digits. 2-8-3. With fuel injection. And a bottom end that
would take enough boost that drag racers could pull more than 1000
horsepower out of it.

> 1960 gave us Detroit's answer to the "Bug", the Corvair from GM and
> can't remember what Ford and Chrysler called their crap but all were
> duds.

Actually the Corvair wasn't a "dud", it was murdered. Corvairs were
_beating_ Porsche in European racing, but Ralph Nader, who has never had a
driver's license, managed with a series of well publicized lawsuits that he
lost and a book entitled "Unsafe at Any Speed" to convince the public that
their handling was dangerously inferior to the understeering klunkers that
were commonplace in the US at the time. He later tried the same trick on
the Beetle, that used the same suspension design, and instead became a
laughningstock. The final nail in his coffin as a credible consumer
advocate was when he started claiming that disk brakes were a conspiracy to
drive up maintenance costs, but by that time the Corvair was gone. But he's
still at it, with his shenanigans costing Gore the election a few years back
(think _Bush_ "stole the election", it was that damned fool Nader that
torpedoed Gore).

> Had a '65 Ford Fairlane 500 hard top with a 289 and a cable release
> for the trunk.
>
> I thought I was the cat's ass when I pulled up to the grocery store
> loading lane and popped the trunk so the kids could load the
> groceries.
>
> I sold that car when my job included a furnished car, but as far as I
> know, whoever ended up with it liked the car.
>
> Then came the Muskrat in '64, what a tin can.

Yeah, I saw one of the first ones and at fourteen recognized it as my
mother's Falcon with fancy sheet metal. Never understood the appeal.

> The next 50 years were all down hill.
>
> Detroit wouldn't build what people wanted to buy and what they built
> was crap.
>
> GMs refusal to build a diesel engine line but rather tried to raise
> the compression of a gasoline engine for the Olds.
>
> It was doomed before you turned the ignition switch.
>
> Detroit did it with their own shovel.
>
> They dug a deep hole and ran right down into it.
>
> Yes we need the talent and the knowledge that id "Detroit", but it
> will come at a BIG
> price.
>
> Off the stump.
>
> Lew

In article <[email protected]>, Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> wrote:
>Tom Veatch wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:53:26 -0700 (PDT), RonB <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>'67 Camero - Pretty good car
>>
>> 1967 Camero Rally Sport - first NEW car my wife and I owned. Easy to
>> work on, power out the ying yang, but a little cramped for a family on
>> the road. Sold it with 120,000 miles on the odometer and in excellent
>> condition. The engine (327) was still tight with good even compression
>> and essentially zero oil consumption.
>
> That series of engines was nigh unto indestructible -- 327, 350, etc The
>bodies would fall down around the engines before they failed.

Likewise the Chrysler slant-six. Had several of those in the 70s and 80s.
Just change the oil regularly, and a slant-six will run forever.

In article <[email protected]>, Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> wrote:
>SteveBell wrote:
>
>.... snip
>>
>> Trivia for today: Hay and straw bales are the same thing, except hay
>> includes the seed heads.
>>
>
> Umm, no. Straw bales are typically wheat straw after threshing, that much
>is true. Hay, however, is feed that includes green dried plants such as
>alfalfa, clover, timothy, bermuda, and other grasses. One can say that
>grains with the head intact could technically be included as "hay", but
>I've never heard that usage unless the grain was cut green before fully
>maturing.

Which is sometimes done. When a field is newly seeded with alfalfa, the plants
need some protection from the sun for the first two or three months until
they're well established. It's common to sow oats along with the alfalfa seed;
the oats sprout earlier and grow faster, providing modest shade to the alfalfa
seedlings. By the time the alfalfa is ready to cut and bale, the oats have not
yet matured and so they get mown green, with immature grain heads, and raked
and baled along with the alfalfa. The result is called "oats hay." And if
you're planning to store it in a barn for more than a few months, you'd better
have a *lot* of cats, because you're going to have a lot of mice. DAMHIKT.

Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> wrote:
...
>> Umm, no. Straw bales are typically wheat straw after threshing, that much
>> is true. Hay, however, is feed that includes green dried plants such as
>> alfalfa, clover, timothy, bermuda, and other grasses. One can say that
>> grains with the head intact could technically be included as "hay", but
>> I've never heard that usage unless the grain was cut green before fully
>> maturing.
>
> Which is sometimes done. When a field is newly seeded with alfalfa, the plants
> need some protection from the sun for the first two or three months until
> they're well established. It's common to sow oats along with the alfalfa seed;
> the oats sprout earlier and grow faster, providing modest shade to the alfalfa
> seedlings. By the time the alfalfa is ready to cut and bale, the oats have not
> yet matured and so they get mown green, with immature grain heads, and raked
> and baled along with the alfalfa. The result is called "oats hay." And if
> you're planning to store it in a barn for more than a few months, you'd better
> have a *lot* of cats, because you're going to have a lot of mice. DAMHIKT.

Out here in wheat country it's common practice to bale wheat if have had
significant hail damage or a late freeze so it won't make enough grain
to make worth going to harvest. Or, will also pasture past jointing
time with intent of baling for feed to get thru until other feed is
available in spring.

Many alternatives but definitely true that "hay" and "straw" aren't the
same thing at all...

In essence, straw is the stalk of a fully-ripened plant, the residue
left over after threshing as noted above. It has little nutrient value
and is totally unpalatable even if it did (think chewing on a straw or
toothpick to make a meal).

--


--

In article <[email protected]>, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>LOL ... a country boy, without doubt! Your experience, unlike some of
>the other posts in this thread, obviously did not come solely from the
>rural areas of the Internet! :)

:-)

Another thing worth mentioning about oats hay: the bales are *heavy* when you
put them in the barn -- there's probably a peck or so of grain in each square
bale. Six months later, they don't weigh nearly so much: the mice are very
efficient at finding the grain.
>
>Wheat straw, which is the most desired for straw bale construction, has
>so little nutritional value that even the critters won't choose it as a
>desirable place to be. IME, leave it stacked in a barn for months and
>you will see relatively few rodents and crawling critters residing
>around the stack compared to a hay.

Yep, I'd agree with that.

jtpryan wrote:
...
> But it's more then just reliability, it is also the "feel" of the
> car. When I'm in an American car it just feels loose and
> unresponsive. ...

That all depends on the car and suspension choices, etc., ...

A Buick LeSabre (or whatever the present replacement is) doesn't have
the same market niche as a whatever rice-burner...

I'll put my 300M equipped w/ the touring package against most any other
touring sedan within reasonably comparable price range...

--

In article <b663b7a6-47f8-4add-93db-ed74447bbc6c@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>,
jtpryan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>You are joking I hope. I see "american made" and all I think is
>overpaid union workers and NO quality control. Guess I have just been
>soured by the automobile industry. Japanese says pride and extreme
>quality control. Think Toyota.

I'm no fan of American cars; I think most of them are a disgrace.
But as far as tools are concerned, I prefer American all the way.
German, Swiss, or Japanese are ok too (love them Japanese hand saws).
--
-Ed Falk, [email protected]
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Edward A. Falk) wrote:
>In article <b663b7a6-47f8-4add-93db-ed74447bbc6c@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>,
>jtpryan <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>You are joking I hope. I see "american made" and all I think is
>>overpaid union workers and NO quality control. Guess I have just been
>>soured by the automobile industry. Japanese says pride and extreme
>>quality control. Think Toyota.
>
>I'm no fan of American cars; I think most of them are a disgrace.
>But as far as tools are concerned, I prefer American all the way.
>German, Swiss, or Japanese are ok too (love them Japanese hand saws).

Agreed, and I'll add a few more to the list. My shop also includes tools made
in Austria, Australia, Canada, Sweden, and New Zealand -- no quality problems
with any of them.

jtpryan wrote:

> You are joking I hope. I see "american made" and all I think is
> overpaid union workers and NO quality control. Guess I have just been
> soured by the automobile industry. Japanese says pride and extreme
> quality control. Think Toyota.
>
> We blew it.

Amen brother. My next American truck will surely not be a Government
Motors, Union made, piece of shit. It will be most likely a non-union,
made in America, Toyota.

Thanks to Obama, I'm now ashamed to have the letters GMC stuck to my grill.

--
Jack
Got Change: General Motors ===> Government Motors...
http://jbstein.com

jtpryan wrote:
>
> You are joking I hope. I see "american made" and all I think is
> overpaid union workers and NO quality control. Guess I have just been
> soured by the automobile industry. Japanese says pride and extreme
> quality control. Think Toyota.
>
> We blew it.
>
> -Jim

Before you go off on US workers, consider a few points:

- They don't control the design of the parts they are supposed to
assemble, that's up to the engineers.

- Those engineers are told to design within certain cost limits by the
bean counters and managers.

- They don't control the quality of the parts they are supposed to
assemble, that's up to the bean counters and managers who specify cost
and suppliers for those parts.

- There are some structural problems with US corporations which almost
inevitably lead to lower quality and higher prices. These include but
are not limited to laws which require short-term profit-seeking for
shareholders over long-term company health, laws that allow for control
of corporations by boards of directors who set their own salaries but
are not accountable to the shareholders, laws which allow corporate
personhood, and ridiculous health care costs due to a dysfunctional
health care delivery system.

US workers don't want to produce poor products, they want to make
high-quality products and earn living wages. Always slamming the
workers is criticizing those who have the least control, and demanding
constantly lower wages only hastens the race to the bottom and lowers
general quality of life for our society. Want to live and work in
Mexico or China?

scritch wrote:
> jtpryan wrote:
>>
>> You are joking I hope. I see "american made" and all I think is
>> overpaid union workers and NO quality control. Guess I have just been
>> soured by the automobile industry. Japanese says pride and extreme
>> quality control. Think Toyota.
>>
>> We blew it.
>>
>> -Jim
>
> Before you go off on US workers, consider a few points:
>
> - They don't control the design of the parts they are supposed to
> assemble, that's up to the engineers.
>
> - Those engineers are told to design within certain cost limits by the
> bean counters and managers.
>
> - They don't control the quality of the parts they are supposed to
> assemble, that's up to the bean counters and managers who specify cost
> and suppliers for those parts.

And those cost limits you mentioned aren't directly affected by the cost of the labor? Hmm...

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

"Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>> But do Honda and Toyota pay family health insurance even after the
>> employee dies?
>
> That I don't know but I found this interesting:
>
> "Toyota Motor Corporation’s health care costs have doubled over the past
> five years to more than $11,000 a year per U.S. worker. In its newest
> plant, The Detroit News reports,(2) Toyota has taken a new approach,
> building a clinic at the factory that provides services, including vision
> checks, dental care, laboratory tests, physical therapy, and even
> pediatric care. Companies adopting such practices spend more up front for
> primary care and drugs, but the cost is more than offset by a drop in
> costly hospitalization and specialty care expenses. On-site clinics are
> also expected to reduce absenteeism. Moreover, Toyota clinic physicians
> will not be remunerated on the basis of how many patients they see––the
> U.S. health care system’s prevailing payment structure—but rather
> encourage more time with doctors."
>
> http://www.kltprc.net/horizon/Chpt_15.htm
>
> --
> Jack Novak
> Buffalo, NY - USA
> [email protected]

kinda puts paid to the excuse 'too sick to go to work' on monday mornings.

scritch wrote:
Want to live and work in
> Mexico or China?

Not quite yet!

--
Jack
Using FREE News Server: http://www.eternal-september.org/
http://jbstein.com

"Dave in Houston" wrote:

> I remember the joke, "Will the last person leaving Michigan
> please turn out the lights!"

Actually that was Seattle.

They turned out the the lights on Detroit with the riots.

They just never turned them back on.

40+ years later, they are still off.

Lew

"RonB" wrote:
-----------------------------------------------------
>Jim - I'd be curious of your age. I suspect that you, like us,
experienced the junk era in American autos. Our experience from that
period to present:
-----------------------------------------------------

I come from the post WWII era.

The world stopped for me with the 50 Merc whose headlights will be
remembered by all those who found a use other than driving at night
for them

Buick sucked with the change in model years being denoted by how many
chrome rings were on each side during the '50s.

Bigger tail fins were the answer for innovative design.

Olds 88 and Olds 98 which was an 88 with a longer trunk.

Ford saved the decade of the '50s with the first thunder chicken.

Too bad they screwed it up.

Never could figure out what made people go gaga for a '57 Chevy.

1960 gave us Detroit's answer to the "Bug", the Corvair from GM and
can't remember what Ford and Chrysler called their crap but all were
duds.

Had a '65 Ford Fairlane 500 hard top with a 289 and a cable release
for the trunk.

I thought I was the cat's ass when I pulled up to the grocery store
loading lane and popped the trunk so the kids could load the
groceries.

I sold that car when my job included a furnished car, but as far as I
know, whoever ended up with it liked the car.

Then came the Muskrat in '64, what a tin can.

The next 50 years were all down hill.

Detroit wouldn't build what people wanted to buy and what they built
was crap.

GMs refusal to build a diesel engine line but rather tried to raise
the compression of a gasoline engine for the Olds.

It was doomed before you turned the ignition switch.

Detroit did it with their own shovel.

They dug a deep hole and ran right down into it.

Yes we need the talent and the knowledge that id "Detroit", but it
will come at a BIG
price.

Off the stump.

Lew

"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:d7f682fa-d29e-4745-ba76-8d54089c61a8@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> They're a dying breed, Leon.. literally dying....
>>
>> My neighbor here in Houston went with wife for a family reunion in
>> Michigan. Many of her relatives have worked for the auto industry up
>> there for many years and they are all hurting. They all admitted that
>> they saw this coming for many years and were not blaming anyone as they
>> had it way too good for far too long.
>
> 1973 ... there were more NY, NJ, MI, FL, and OH plates during rush hour
> traffic in Houston then there were TX plates.
>
> The more things change ...

I remember the joke, "Will the last person leaving Michigan please turn
out the lights!"

Dave in Houston

On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:53:26 -0700 (PDT), RonB <[email protected]>
wrote:

>'67 Camero - Pretty good car

1967 Camero Rally Sport - first NEW car my wife and I owned. Easy to
work on, power out the ying yang, but a little cramped for a family on
the road. Sold it with 120,000 miles on the odometer and in excellent
condition. The engine (327) was still tight with good even compression
and essentially zero oil consumption. Got more than I paid for it new.
Feeding it high octane leaded fuel might be a little inconvenient
these days, but wish I still had it.

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

Lee Michaels wrote:
> "Swingman" wrote
>> IOW, you ain't done nothing till you've tried your hand at
>> designing/building/hanging cabinets on the walls of a "straw bale" house!
>>
>> Don't ask ... it definitely ain't "natcheral". :)
>>
> Of course it is natural. And organic...., and environmentally
> conscious....., and sustainable....., and GREEEEEEEEEEEENNN!!!!
>
> Pardon me while go someplace and vomit.


Your forgot EXPENSIVE ... there is nothing in the building trade that is
both "green" and inexpensive ... nothing!

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Dave in Houston" wrote:
>
>> I remember the joke, "Will the last person leaving Michigan please
>> turn out the lights!"
>
> Actually that was Seattle.
>

On a billboard in 1971. Boeing had been badly hit by cancellation of the
SST. Company I worked for in Oregon got hit by cancellation of a Boeing
contract. Reverberated all over the PNW.

> They turned out the the lights on Detroit with the riots.
>
> They just never turned them back on.

I lived in Toledo at the time and a friend bought a watch reputedly stolen
during the riots: an "Eglin" :(.

>
> 40+ years later, they are still off.
>
> Lew
>
>
>

"Edward A. Falk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Lee Michaels <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>When I walked in the door, therre was the big, new Delta table saw. It
>>looked nice and cost about $3,300. What was most interesting to me was a
>>sign that screamed out, "New Unisaw BUILT IN AMERICA!"
>>
>>I thought that was interesting that US manufacture was considered a
>>marketing point.
>
> "Still"? Was it ever not a marketing point? To me, it is and always has
> been a HUGE marketing point. Given a choice, I always take American made
> over any other option (ok, maybe except for Japanese hand tools.)
>
> It warms my heart to know that you can still get an American-made Delta
> table saw. I'd run right out now and buy one if I didn't already have
> one. And if I had $3300 to spare.
>



The front name Badge clearly states, MADE in the USA, of U.S. and
"foreigh" components.

So I think the badge is like TiteBond III Water proof glue, somewhat
misleading.



Hopefully like Toyota and Honda.

"Edward A. Falk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article
> <0b1d1fc4-050d-467e-ad79-fd5ff47e4759@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
> RonB <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>I, too suspect "BUILT" is the key word. I'll bet many of the parts
>>came from China. ..
>
> I'd be ok with that as long as there's American quality control
> involved.


Actually I think the appearance of quality control looks to be a notch up
from American, think Japanese. I honestly don't think I have seen any
American machinery look this good.

On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 19:17:55 -0400, "Lee Michaels"
<leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote:


>Of course it is natural. And organic...., and environmentally
>conscious....., and sustainable....., and GREEEEEEEEEEEENNN!!!!
>

Nah, hay is green. Straw is sorta yellow brown.



Regards,

Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

Tom Watson wrote:

> (i still wish that you would not run those vertical's all the way to
> the top - don't look natcheral to me :-) )

LOL ... Yep, I agree. But, being forced to build cabinets months before
a structure even exists ain't exactly a "natcheral" endeavor, Tom

... and individual boxes, face frames clamped and screwed together side
by side, do tend to look that way.

Not to mention - staring this in the face, with a schedule to meet and
dimensions changing with every coat of plaster:

http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/13525-0.jpg

... and you do what you gotta do. :)

IOW, you ain't done nothing till you've tried your hand at
designing/building/hanging cabinets on the walls of a "straw bale" house!

Don't ask ... it definitely ain't "natcheral". :)

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:04:12 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>Tom Watson wrote:
>> On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 07:24:40 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yesterday I sanded the face frames of an entire large
>>> kitchen, 22 cabinets 120 grit, 150 grit, and 180 grit in about 2.5 hours and
>>> left no dust behind during the job.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Wow!
>>
>> That got my attention.
>>
>> Hmmmm....$$$$.....$$$$....hmmm....
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Tom Watson
>> http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
>
>Here are some of those FF's that got Leon's Festool treatment
>
>http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/13525-1.jpg
>http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/13525-2.jpg
>http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/13525-3.jpg
>http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/13525-4.jpg
>http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/13525-5.jpg
>http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/13525-6.jpg
>
>Leon and I were in this new residential construction all day for three
>days this week, in 104 + degree heat, no AC, installing these boxes.
>Photos were taken as we left late yesterday afternoon for the 150 mile
>trek back to our respective shops, and the relative cool of the Gulf Coast.


They look awesome.

(i still wish that you would not run those vertical's all the way to
the top - don't look natcheral to me :-) )

The thing that got me going was the "NO DUST" part.

I'm gonna have to take a look at these Fusstools.

You boys are rockin'!




Regards,

Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> It tells me that the Honda and Toyota could afford more R&D and better
> quality products because employee benefits were not choking the ever
> living day lights out of all the profit. 5 years ago it was reported
> that GM was paying in excess of $3K per car built just to pay for employee
> benefits, that did not include their pay.

Health care benefits cost the auto industry so much money that earlier
this year I heard someone refer to GM as a health care provider that happens
to make cars.

Dave in Houston

"Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> That is all good and well until you consider that those same workers
>> build Toyota and Honda. The American car workers are way past spoiled
>> with over paid jobs.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Since it's the "same workers" it tells me more about design and management
> rather than workers "spoiled with over paid jobs".
>

It tells me that the Honda and Toyota could afford more R&D and better
quality products because employee benefits were not choking the ever living
day lights out of all the profit. 5 years ago it was reported that GM was
paying in excess of $3K per car built just to pay for employee benefits,
that did not include their pay.

"Swingman" wrote:

> Wheat straw, which is the most desired for straw bale construction,
> has so little nutritional value that even the critters won't choose
> it as a desirable place to be. IME, leave it stacked in a barn for
> months and you will see relatively few rodents and crawling critters
> residing around the stack compared to a hay.

Where I grew up, and "thrashing" was still common, the straw was piled
outside next to the barn in the pen where the cows were kept at night.

A mental block, can remember the proper name of that stack of straw.

Lew

Dave Balderstone wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>, Mark &
> Juanita <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Where we lived, it was common that one could actually harvest the grain
>> from the nurse crop -- the alfalfa didn't grow fast enough to overtake
>> the grain.
>
> Was that irrigated or dry land farming? what was the growing season?
>

Irrigated farming near Denver, Colorado. Growing season is relatively
short, 90 day corn is pretty solid, 120 day corn can be dicey depending
upon the year. Cool nights kept the alfalfa from growing fast, but the
oats or barley would grow quick enough to mature before being overtaken.

> Up here in Saskatchewan, I can't picture that scenario. If the alfalfa
> isn't growing, it's probably 'cause there's no water for anything.
>
> djb

--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Lee Michaels wrote:
>> "Swingman" wrote
>>> IOW, you ain't done nothing till you've tried your hand at
>>> designing/building/hanging cabinets on the walls of a "straw bale"
>>> house!
>>>
>>> Don't ask ... it definitely ain't "natcheral". :)
>>>
>> Of course it is natural. And organic...., and environmentally
>> conscious....., and sustainable....., and GREEEEEEEEEEEENNN!!!!
>>
>> Pardon me while go someplace and vomit.
>
>
> Your forgot EXPENSIVE ... there is nothing in the building trade that is
> both "green" and inexpensive ... nothing!


NOT even Red Bull!

"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "RonB" wrote:
>
> GMs refusal to build a diesel engine line but rather tried to raise
> the compression of a gasoline engine for the Olds.

That engine had very little in common with the gasoline engine. No parts
were enterchangable except perhaps valve cover bolts. It's biggest most
common problem was an inadequate fuel filtering system that did not seperate
water from the fuel. Any amount of water that went through the injector
pump resulted in a very minimum of damage to the elisticast ring failure
inside the pump. From there the water would damage the engine. It was not
until 1985, the last year that Oldsmobile used that diesel engine that they
finally added a fuel filter system that would keep water out of the
injection system. We, the dealership strongly advised every diesel customer
to add a better, Racor filter system, to their cars. The V6 diesel engine
suffered the same problem and fate.

>
> It was doomed before you turned the ignition switch.

It would have done much better had only the fuel system been better from the
start.
GM was arrogent that way, they did not provide the fuel, it was the
customers responsibility to find fuel with out water in it. Fat chance!

>
>