Greetings,
About 3 years ago I installed a supply line from my home propane system to
my propane grill located on my wooden deck (obligatory wood reference ;-))
utilizing black pipe and Oatey pipe joint compound. A few days ago I walked
out on the deck and immediately noticed the tell-tale odor of propane.
First thing I checked was my grill thinking I had left it on, but it was
not. next, out came the squirt bottle of soapy water and I found small
bubbles being produced at 2 of the joints in the pipe. This pipe had not
been touched or moved in the 3 years it has been in place, so I am not sure
what caused the joints to leak. My question is should I use something else
to reseal the joints? Or just take the assembly apart, clean the threads
and reapply pipe joint compound and reseal? I assume (there is that word)
that just re-tightening the joint is probably not the best option. Do these
type of joints need any periodic maintenance, or is it just Murphy rearing
his ugly head? (since the leak was detected, I did shut off the supply
line, don't want someone lighting the grill and getting more than they
bargained for ;-)
TIA
-George-
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "George Gibeau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Greetings,
>>
>> About 3 years ago I installed a supply line from my home propane system
>> to my propane grill located on my wooden deck (obligatory wood reference
>> ;-)) utilizing black pipe and Oatey pipe joint compound. A few days ago
>> I walked out on the deck and immediately noticed the tell-tale odor of
>> propane.
>
>
> I'm not an expert on this, but I don't think plain black pipe is the
> proper material. My home propane was piped using copper tubing.
>
> http://www.co.larimer.co.us/building/liquid_propane.htm
>
> Materials allowed for yard piping include copper, PE (only pipe
> specifically approved for exterior buried piping systems may be used) and
> factory machine applied coated/wrapped black pipe with the joints of the
> black pipe wrapped with ten mill tape which is half lapped and double
> wrapped
>
Black pipe is fine for propane, most codes allow it.
As for the OP, be sure the gas is off disassemble the pipe, clean the
threads, and reassemble using a good pipe thread dope. On the job we use
Rectorseal with Teflon. Don't be afraid to tighten it good. Turn the gas
back on and check for leaks using dish soap and water.
Greg
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
> As a general rule, do _not_ use pipe joint compound with gas piping (there
> are special compounds made specifically for this purpose, but they're not
> commonplace--if it doesn't say specifically that it is for gas piping then
> don't use it). The seal should be from metal-to-metal contact and not
> from
> some gunk in the joint. Take it apart, clean the joints, make sure the
> threads are not buggered up, get the joints _tight_, then when it's done
> before you turn the gas on put some air pressure in the pipe and see if
> the
> pipe holds pressure for 24 hours (you should be able to rig a fixture that
> lets you put a gage on the pipe-end). If it does you're golden, if not
> then find the leak and fix it.
>
Good luck getting black pipe to seal without using pipe dope. The threads
will gall and tear up from the friction. Rectorseal is a good pipe dope for
gas. You should be able to find it just about anywhere.
I do agree to a point that the threads should seal the joint, not the pipe
dope, but you need the dope to at the very least lubricate the threads. The
pipe dope does have some sealing ability to.
Trust me, I have screwed together way too much black pipe on the job.
Greg
On Tue, 31 May 2005 19:04:23 GMT, Charles Krug <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, 31 May 2005 11:22:21 -0500, George Gibeau <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> The cookout was yesterday - didn't you get the invitation? ;-) steaks were
>> perfect!
>>
>
> From a gas grill?
>
> Nah . . . REAL men cook with charcoal we make ourselves, setting our
> offcuts afire and burying them under sand for a couple days.
Which is great, unless you get invited to Charles' "I finished the deck"
party...
> 'course my wife INSISTS I use the storebought stuff, something about
> "Eating TODAY and not next week" or some silly thing like that.
Where do they _get_ that idea, I wonder?
"Charles Krug" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> It's much nicer to cook with than briquettes.
Tastes better, but not as convenient. I live in an apartment where propane
tanks are illegal and having a barbeque out on the balcony is taboo. With
the occasional inspections of the balconies it was a waste sneaking a
propane sized unit out there so occasionally, I'd make do with a little
Hibachi charcoal unit. Only downside was that while the briquettes were
getting up to proper heat I'd be trying to shield viewing of the flames and
smoke from neighbours in the apartment across the street. Always pretended I
was vacumming the balcony instead of what I was really doing and trying to
vacuum up the smoke from the burning briquettes.
See what we apartement dwellers have to put up with?
Unless the pipe is totally exposed to the weather, and the rust and
corrosion build-up is VERY obvious, you should not experience any problems.
However, most people don't tighten NPT threaded joints sufficiently. You
should be able to turn in about 3-1/2 turns by hand, and you should tighten
an additional 1-1/2 to 2 full turns with a wrench. Additionally, teflon
tape is preferred over pipe joint compound (it never hardens).
"George Gibeau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Greetings,
>
> About 3 years ago I installed a supply line from my home propane system to
> my propane grill located on my wooden deck (obligatory wood reference ;-))
> utilizing black pipe and Oatey pipe joint compound. A few days ago I
> walked out on the deck and immediately noticed the tell-tale odor of
> propane. First thing I checked was my grill thinking I had left it on, but
> it was not. next, out came the squirt bottle of soapy water and I found
> small bubbles being produced at 2 of the joints in the pipe. This pipe
> had not been touched or moved in the 3 years it has been in place, so I am
> not sure what caused the joints to leak. My question is should I use
> something else to reseal the joints? Or just take the assembly apart,
> clean the threads and reapply pipe joint compound and reseal? I assume
> (there is that word) that just re-tightening the joint is probably not the
> best option. Do these type of joints need any periodic maintenance, or is
> it just Murphy rearing his ugly head? (since the leak was detected, I did
> shut off the supply line, don't want someone lighting the grill and
> getting more than they bargained for ;-)
>
> TIA
>
> -George-
>
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> That link gets a "connection refused". Generally speaking steel pipe is
> preferred for gas. Some folks I know down in New Haven damned near blew
> up
> their building when a copper gas pipe broke--the gas company wouldn't turn
> the gas back on until the inspector approved the gas piping, and he made
> them rip out _all_ the copper and replace it with black pipe, on a three
> story building in the dead of winter.
Natural gas and propane have some different rules. Here in Putnam a house
did blow up when the gas company inspector broke a plastic line with his
probe while looking for a leak. He made it worse and it took out the house
and did major damage to the ones on each side of it.
You would likely be better off posting to A.H.R. but as a start ....
The right move was to turn off the supply! You have a severe hazard
that needs to be fixed before ever turning the supply on again.
I can't make any more recommendation than to consult or even better,
hire a pipe fitter who is gas certified and make the installation
compliant safe and to reg's. I am guessing a complete disassembly with
a rebuild using properly rated materials and methods.
I don't believe the "Oatey pipe joint compound" you used is 'gas' rated
and likely the major cause for the failure you are seeing. Any 'black
iron' piping that is exposed to weather must be properly coated with a
protective layer of rust inhibiting paint sealer and usually is done on
site *after* all pressure leak-down tests are satisfactory.
Please, consult with a properly licensed expert. There could be well be
regulatory items limiting what you can DIY but regardless this is not an
area for trial and error.
Ed
George Gibeau wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> About 3 years ago I installed a supply line from my home propane system to
> my propane grill located on my wooden deck (obligatory wood reference ;-))
> utilizing black pipe and Oatey pipe joint compound. A few days ago I walked
> out on the deck and immediately noticed the tell-tale odor of propane.
> First thing I checked was my grill thinking I had left it on, but it was
> not. next, out came the squirt bottle of soapy water and I found small
> bubbles being produced at 2 of the joints in the pipe. This pipe had not
> been touched or moved in the 3 years it has been in place, so I am not sure
> what caused the joints to leak. My question is should I use something else
> to reseal the joints? Or just take the assembly apart, clean the threads
> and reapply pipe joint compound and reseal? I assume (there is that word)
> that just re-tightening the joint is probably not the best option. Do these
> type of joints need any periodic maintenance, or is it just Murphy rearing
> his ugly head? (since the leak was detected, I did shut off the supply
> line, don't want someone lighting the grill and getting more than they
> bargained for ;-)
>
> TIA
>
> -George-
>
>
On 31 May 2005 19:17:46 GMT, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, 31 May 2005 19:04:23 GMT, Charles Krug
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Tue, 31 May 2005 11:22:21 -0500, George Gibeau <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>> The cookout was yesterday - didn't you get the invitation? ;-)
>>> steaks were
>>> perfect!
>>>
>>
>> From a gas grill?
>>
>> Nah . . . REAL men cook with charcoal we make ourselves, setting our
>> offcuts afire and burying them under sand for a couple days.
>
> Which is great, unless you get invited to Charles' "I finished the deck"
> party...
>
That's only for Very Special Friends . . .
>> 'course my wife INSISTS I use the storebought stuff, something about
>> "Eating TODAY and not next week" or some silly thing like that.
>
> Where do they _get_ that idea, I wonder?
I used to have to drive twenty miles and pay roughly $1/lb for the stuff
at a specialty store.
Then HD started carrying a product I didn't like quite so well . . .
more big chunks and smaller chunks, not so many in the middle, which
wasn't as useful. They have it for about $0.68/lb
Now I get it at the local shop-rite for $0.50/lb and it's better quality
than the Borg stuff. More like the stuff I used to have to drive for.
It's much nicer to cook with than briquettes.
On Tue, 31 May 2005 11:22:21 -0500, George Gibeau <[email protected]>
wrote:
> The cookout was yesterday - didn't you get the invitation? ;-) steaks were
> perfect!
>
From a gas grill?
Nah . . . REAL men cook with charcoal we make ourselves, setting our
offcuts afire and burying them under sand for a couple days.
'course my wife INSISTS I use the storebought stuff, something about
"Eating TODAY and not next week" or some silly thing like that.
"George Gibeau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Greetings,
>
> About 3 years ago I installed a supply line from my home propane system to
> my propane grill located on my wooden deck (obligatory wood reference ;-))
> utilizing black pipe and Oatey pipe joint compound. A few days ago I
> walked out on the deck and immediately noticed the tell-tale odor of
> propane.
I'm not an expert on this, but I don't think plain black pipe is the proper
material. My home propane was piped using copper tubing.
http://www.co.larimer.co.us/building/liquid_propane.htm
Materials allowed for yard piping include copper, PE (only pipe specifically
approved for exterior buried piping systems may be used) and factory machine
applied coated/wrapped black pipe with the joints of the black pipe wrapped
with ten mill tape which is half lapped and double wrapped
The cookout was yesterday - didn't you get the invitation? ;-) steaks were
perfect!
-G-
"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "George Gibeau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Thanks for all the great advice. I took the pipe apart, cleaned all the
>> joints, and resealed with pipe dope intended for this type of usage.
>> After checking for leaks at the joint seams and finding none, I put the
>> grill back into operation yesterday.
>>
>> Again, thanks for all the helpful advice.
>>
> When are you inviting us all over for steaks and beer?
>
>
>
>
I ran the pipe from a connection that the home builder supplied on the back
of my house. The black pipe is a total of about 10-12 feet, terminating to
a propane approved hose (purchased at my local grill dealer) the hose then
goes from the black pipe to the grill. Sorry, I should have been more clear
in my OP.
Thanks
-George-
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "George Gibeau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Greetings,
>>
>> About 3 years ago I installed a supply line from my home propane system
>> to my propane grill located on my wooden deck (obligatory wood reference
>> ;-)) utilizing black pipe and Oatey pipe joint compound. A few days ago
>> I walked out on the deck and immediately noticed the tell-tale odor of
>> propane.
>
>
> I'm not an expert on this, but I don't think plain black pipe is the
> proper material. My home propane was piped using copper tubing.
>
> http://www.co.larimer.co.us/building/liquid_propane.htm
>
> Materials allowed for yard piping include copper, PE (only pipe
> specifically approved for exterior buried piping systems may be used) and
> factory machine applied coated/wrapped black pipe with the joints of the
> black pipe wrapped with ten mill tape which is half lapped and double
> wrapped
>
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Bruce T wrote:
>> Unless the pipe is totally exposed to the weather, and the rust and
>> corrosion build-up is VERY obvious, you should not experience any
>> problems. However, most people don't tighten NPT threaded joints
>> sufficiently. You should be able to turn in about 3-1/2 turns by hand,
>> and you should tighten an additional 1-1/2 to 2 full turns with a wrench.
>> Additionally, teflon tape is preferred over pipe joint compound (it never
>> hardens).
>
> Using teflon tape on combustion piping is an absolute no-no because sooner
> or later a bit of teflon tape will break loose and find it's way to the
> nearest orifice where it will plug it.
>
> OTOH, teflon paste works quite well on combustion plumbing.
>
> Lew
There is a tape designed specifically for gas fittings.
Max D.
You're quite right there. Contrary to popular belief, pipe joint compound is
not meant to seal the joint. It's primary function is to lubricate the
threads so that they can be screwed together tightly enough to seal.
"Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
> Good luck getting black pipe to seal without using pipe dope. The threads
> will gall and tear up from the friction. Rectorseal is a good pipe dope
for
> gas. You should be able to find it just about anywhere.
> I do agree to a point that the threads should seal the joint, not the pipe
> dope, but you need the dope to at the very least lubricate the threads.
The
> pipe dope does have some sealing ability to.
> Trust me, I have screwed together way too much black pipe on the job.
> Greg
>
>
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>
> "George Gibeau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Greetings,
>>
>> About 3 years ago I installed a supply line from my home propane system
>> to my propane grill located on my wooden deck (obligatory wood reference
>> ;-))
>> utilizing black pipe and Oatey pipe joint compound. A few days ago I
>> walked out on the deck and immediately noticed the tell-tale odor of
>> propane.
>
>
> I'm not an expert on this, but I don't think plain black pipe is the
> proper
> material. My home propane was piped using copper tubing.
>
> http://www.co.larimer.co.us/building/liquid_propane.htm
>
> Materials allowed for yard piping include copper, PE (only pipe
> specifically approved for exterior buried piping systems may be used) and
> factory machine applied coated/wrapped black pipe with the joints of the
> black pipe wrapped with ten mill tape which is half lapped and double
> wrapped
That link gets a "connection refused". Generally speaking steel pipe is
preferred for gas. Some folks I know down in New Haven damned near blew up
their building when a copper gas pipe broke--the gas company wouldn't turn
the gas back on until the inspector approved the gas piping, and he made
them rip out _all_ the copper and replace it with black pipe, on a three
story building in the dead of winter.
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
George Gibeau wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> About 3 years ago I installed a supply line from my home propane system to
> my propane grill located on my wooden deck (obligatory wood reference ;-))
> utilizing black pipe and Oatey pipe joint compound. A few days ago I
> walked out on the deck and immediately noticed the tell-tale odor of
> propane. First thing I checked was my grill thinking I had left it on, but
> it was
> not. next, out came the squirt bottle of soapy water and I found small
> bubbles being produced at 2 of the joints in the pipe. This pipe had not
> been touched or moved in the 3 years it has been in place, so I am not
> sure
> what caused the joints to leak. My question is should I use something
> else
> to reseal the joints? Or just take the assembly apart, clean the threads
> and reapply pipe joint compound and reseal? I assume (there is that word)
> that just re-tightening the joint is probably not the best option. Do
> these type of joints need any periodic maintenance, or is it just Murphy
> rearing
> his ugly head? (since the leak was detected, I did shut off the supply
> line, don't want someone lighting the grill and getting more than they
> bargained for ;-)
As a general rule, do _not_ use pipe joint compound with gas piping (there
are special compounds made specifically for this purpose, but they're not
commonplace--if it doesn't say specifically that it is for gas piping then
don't use it). The seal should be from metal-to-metal contact and not from
some gunk in the joint. Take it apart, clean the joints, make sure the
threads are not buggered up, get the joints _tight_, then when it's done
before you turn the gas on put some air pressure in the pipe and see if the
pipe holds pressure for 24 hours (you should be able to rig a fixture that
lets you put a gage on the pipe-end). If it does you're golden, if not
then find the leak and fix it.
> TIA
>
> -George-
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Thanks for all the great advice. I took the pipe apart, cleaned all the
joints, and resealed with pipe dope intended for this type of usage. After
checking for leaks at the joint seams and finding none, I put the grill back
into operation yesterday.
Again, thanks for all the helpful advice.
-George-
"George Gibeau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Greetings,
>
> About 3 years ago I installed a supply line from my home propane system to
> my propane grill located on my wooden deck (obligatory wood reference ;-))
> utilizing black pipe and Oatey pipe joint compound. A few days ago I
> walked out on the deck and immediately noticed the tell-tale odor of
> propane. First thing I checked was my grill thinking I had left it on, but
> it was not. next, out came the squirt bottle of soapy water and I found
> small bubbles being produced at 2 of the joints in the pipe. This pipe
> had not been touched or moved in the 3 years it has been in place, so I am
> not sure what caused the joints to leak. My question is should I use
> something else to reseal the joints? Or just take the assembly apart,
> clean the threads and reapply pipe joint compound and reseal? I assume
> (there is that word) that just re-tightening the joint is probably not the
> best option. Do these type of joints need any periodic maintenance, or is
> it just Murphy rearing his ugly head? (since the leak was detected, I did
> shut off the supply line, don't want someone lighting the grill and
> getting more than they bargained for ;-)
>
> TIA
>
> -George-
>
"George Gibeau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Thanks for all the great advice. I took the pipe apart, cleaned all the
> joints, and resealed with pipe dope intended for this type of usage.
> After checking for leaks at the joint seams and finding none, I put the
> grill back into operation yesterday.
>
> Again, thanks for all the helpful advice.
>
When are you inviting us all over for steaks and beer?
Bruce T wrote:
> Unless the pipe is totally exposed to the weather, and the rust and
> corrosion build-up is VERY obvious, you should not experience any problems.
> However, most people don't tighten NPT threaded joints sufficiently. You
> should be able to turn in about 3-1/2 turns by hand, and you should tighten
> an additional 1-1/2 to 2 full turns with a wrench. Additionally, teflon
> tape is preferred over pipe joint compound (it never hardens).
Using teflon tape on combustion piping is an absolute no-no because
sooner or later a bit of teflon tape will break loose and find it's way
to the nearest orifice where it will plug it.
OTOH, teflon paste works quite well on combustion plumbing.
Lew