The kids in the San Jose school district ruined the Bathroom Pass!
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3950/15018893163_fa337967da_b.jpg
They scraped off the paint to turn it into "DAT ASS". :)
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5604/15452940608_f210c427bb_b.jpg
I won't even snap a picture of what they wrote on the backside.
As you may recall, I was helping a San Jose high school teacher who
needed a large bathroom pass so that she could insure (a) that only
one student left the room at a time, and (b) it was clear to everyone
what they were doing at all times, and (c) it was clear from a glance
from anywhere in the classroom that a student was out with the pass,
and (d) the pass didn't get easily lost or misplaced by the students.
I had never routed anything, so, I chose to use spray-paint stencils.
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5581/15206009895_d1e78b112e_c.jpg
The stencil kit I bought was too large, so, I then printed the fonts:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3880/15019621160_9cbea8454c_h.jpg
I had then cut the letters out and reinforced them with clear tape:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3851/15184091976_63f5c8ff45_b.jpg
Then I spray painted the letters onto a spare yard-long pine board:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3906/15204068231_004fecefff_b.jpg
It wasn't pretty, but, it seemed (at first) to do the job for her:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3922/15021004310_75f0088a92_c.jpg
But, one by one, the kids scraped off the letters to spell DAT ASS:
And, they carved and wrote gang graffiti on the back of the board.
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5604/15452940608_f210c427bb_b.jpg
So, I sanded off the carvings, and then spray painted the whole thing
black (to discourage graffiti), and put the original printed template
back on the board:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5588/15207129195_fbf5c19552_b.jpg
I then routed (is that a verb?), by hand, the letters, 3/8" deep:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3941/15453487670_97f9454d6f_c.jpg
I was actually very surprised I could route along the stencil fonts:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3940/15018894163_e94d660280_b.jpg
The result isn't all that pretty, but here is what it looked like:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3942/15615352676_a453c68513_b.jpg
After sanding and cleaning it up a bit, it looked like this:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3951/15639905282_44191d3c19_b.jpg
The letters, with only one pass of the router, were pretty rough:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3936/15018323224_98787a3ffa_b.jpg
Let's see what the little San Jose vandals do with this new attempt!
:)
(ideas always welcome)
On 10/27/2014 5:44 AM, Shadow wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 03:05:09 -0400, Stormin Mormon
>> Have the teacher example dat ass every time it comes
>> back, and if there are any letters missing, apply
>> the board of education to the seat of wisdom.
>>
>
> Oddly enough, I agree with the Storming guy this time. A
> school is supposed to teach children so they become responsible
> adults. It's not an assault class where the medal goes to the one
> that breaks the most "laws".
> New pass. Anyone altering it in even the tiniest way gets
> punished. No exceptions.
> []'s
Sigh. Your reputation is forever destroyed,
having agreed with a religious whack job
right winger dinger. You'd better vote twice
in the election, to begin to repair the
damage.
Resurrect Reagan!
-
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 21:11:23 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Bill wrote:
>>
>>> Mike, I think that you may be overlooking the fact that the kids you
>>> and I went to school with are not the same as the kids of today, at
>>> least note that the dilemma varies by school district, I think.
>>> This sort of reminds me of something a previous boss of mine use to
>>> say: "When you're up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to
>>> remember that your original intention was to drain the swamp!" : )
>>>
>> I don't agree Bill. I don't think the kids are all that different. The
>> parents and the teachers are a lot different - don't want to hurt the self
>> esteem of kids, and all that crap.
>
>I don't disagree with you, Mike. You said it all here in your next
>sentence. Mom (and dad?)-- and maybe society shares the blame too, isn't
>raising the same kids that it used to. Maybe I should say that a baby
>is a baby is baby, but what that baby grows into
>has changed, on the average, over the years. Of course, the results
>vary by school district, along with socio-economic background too.
Raising kids is certainly different but the children themselves
aren't. When I see kids running around a restaurant cutting up
(putting the condiment containers in their mouth, and worse), that's
all on the parents. "Society" has nothing to do with it.
>Would anyone argue that today's kids aren't more "sex savvy"? Sex is
>practically forced down their throats by the media.
Well, so to speak. ;-) ...but, yes, you're absolutely correct, here.
You have the left, who think this a marvy idea. Children aren't
allowed to be innocent, anymore.
>
>> Kids though are still kids. They will
>> do what they can get away with just like they always have. Today they can
>> get away with more because adults are not adults these days. Teachers
>> pamaper kids and parents don't parent. Both are afraid to do anything that
>> might offend the brat. Too much psychology involved in dealing with kids
>> today.
>>
"Danny D." wrote:
> I fully expect the students to deface this new paddle.
> But, short of making it out of titanium, I wasn't sure how to
> proceed.
> It's kind of like a game of whack-a-mole.
--------------------------------------------------
A piece of 3/8" steel plate and a welder to form the welded
characters from puddled welding rod.
Lew
On 08.11.14 6:05, josephkk wrote:
> On Mon, 3 Nov 2014 23:15:45 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> josephkk wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Mikw Marlow:
>>> If you are so wise let's hear your solutions to each case where you
>>> kvetched. There are several, let's hear what you would have the
>>> teacher/school do.
>>>
>>
>> No need. If one cannot come up with anything more appropriate than a
>> bathroom plunger for a hall pass, then the same person would not understand
>> any higher level of thinking. Just let them go on with their foolishness.
>>
>> BTW - learn how to trim a post instead of re-posting a ton of lines with
>> your own comment inserted within the first few lines.
>
> I post to suit me.
And dont mind being an aso.
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 06:14:15 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>
>>
>> The local high school has a single person restroom in each classroom.
>> Problem, solved.
>
>How are ya supposed to grab a quick cigarette without getting caught that
>way?
Wait for the class to get over, then skip the next.
On 10/30/2014 1:54 PM, Edward R. Rooney wrote:
> On 10/30/2014 01:19 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>
>>
>> The kids in the San Jose school district ruined the Bathroom Pass!
>>
>
> Spare the rod - spoil the child.
> If you don't believe it, look at the mess we got now.
>
In the Bible days, the rod was used to
nudge sheep back into the flock. Not to
beat the sheep.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
On 10/27/2014 2:21 AM, Danny D. wrote:
> The kids in the San Jose school district ruined the Bathroom Pass!
> https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3950/15018893163_fa337967da_b.jpg
>
> They scraped off the paint to turn it into "DAT ASS". :)
> https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5604/15452940608_f210c427bb_b.jpg
>
> I won't even snap a picture of what they wrote on the backside.
>
> As you may recall, I was helping a San Jose high school teacher who
> needed a large bathroom pass so that she could insure (a) that only
> one student left the room at a time, and (b) it was clear to everyone
> what they were doing at all times, and (c) it was clear from a glance
> from anywhere in the classroom that a student was out with the pass,
> and (d) the pass didn't get easily lost or misplaced by the students.
>
> I had never routed anything, so, I chose to use spray-paint stencils.
> https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5581/15206009895_d1e78b112e_c.jpg
>
> The stencil kit I bought was too large, so, I then printed the fonts:
> https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3880/15019621160_9cbea8454c_h.jpg
>
> I had then cut the letters out and reinforced them with clear tape:
> https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3851/15184091976_63f5c8ff45_b.jpg
>
> Then I spray painted the letters onto a spare yard-long pine board:
> https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3906/15204068231_004fecefff_b.jpg
>
> It wasn't pretty, but, it seemed (at first) to do the job for her:
> https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3922/15021004310_75f0088a92_c.jpg
>
> But, one by one, the kids scraped off the letters to spell DAT ASS:
> And, they carved and wrote gang graffiti on the back of the board.
> https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5604/15452940608_f210c427bb_b.jpg
>
> So, I sanded off the carvings, and then spray painted the whole thing
> black (to discourage graffiti), and put the original printed template
> back on the board:
> https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5588/15207129195_fbf5c19552_b.jpg
>
> I then routed (is that a verb?), by hand, the letters, 3/8" deep:
> https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3941/15453487670_97f9454d6f_c.jpg
>
> I was actually very surprised I could route along the stencil fonts:
> https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3940/15018894163_e94d660280_b.jpg
>
> The result isn't all that pretty, but here is what it looked like:
> https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3942/15615352676_a453c68513_b.jpg
>
> After sanding and cleaning it up a bit, it looked like this:
> https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3951/15639905282_44191d3c19_b.jpg
>
> The letters, with only one pass of the router, were pretty rough:
> https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3936/15018323224_98787a3ffa_b.jpg
>
> Let's see what the little San Jose vandals do with this new attempt!
> :)
>
> (ideas always welcome)
>
>
>
>
Have the teacher example dat ass every time it comes
back, and if there are any letters missing, apply
the board of education to the seat of wisdom.
-
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
On 11/1/2014 8:15 AM, Danny D. wrote:
>
> San Jose high school classes are an
> hour and 45 minutes long, which is
> double your class periods. On Mondays,
> they're very short. About an hour.
>
That sounds like a lot too long to keep
students at a desk. Half hour to 45 mins
would make more sense. Need to get up and
walk around. I don't think this sounds
practical.
-
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
[email protected] wrote:
>
> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> >
> > It's a lot less disruption to the class. I saw them during the
> > lasthurricane, when the building was used as a shelter for the
> > disabled and senior citizens.
>
> Less interruption? How so? When we were in high school (long before)
> there were no "bathroom passes". Classes were 50 minutes with 10
> minutes between. Young adults were expected to be potty trained.
By letting them get up and use it quickly without interrupting the
class to ask for the pass and the time it took to return it. Some people
have medical problems, and the need arises without much warning.
We had five minutes between classes. Then the principal retired. His
replacement cut it to three minutes between classes and turned off the
bells even though the clock system needed a lot of work. It turned into
a real mess when hundreds of kids were sent to the principal's office
for being tardy for each class. The teachers used whatever their watch
said, and no two were the same.
--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>That sounds like a lot too long to keep
>students at a desk. Half hour to 45 mins
>would make more sense. Need to get up and
>walk around. I don't think this sounds
>practical.
Along those lines...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2014/10/24/teacher-spends-two-days-as-a-student-and-is-shocked-at-what-she-learned/?wpisrc=pdwmk
Saw this article in other publications too...
On 10/31/14, 7:34 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> We had five minutes between classes. Then the principal retired. His
> replacement cut it to three minutes between classes and turned off the
> bells even though the clock system needed a lot of work. It turned into
> a real mess when hundreds of kids were sent to the principal's office
> for being tardy for each class. The teachers used whatever their watch
> said, and no two were the same.
Our school had a Western Union clock system governed by a grandfather
clock in the office. Occasionally we'd see classroom clocks jump because
the principal was adjusting the grandfather clock.
I believed in punctuality, being neither late nor early. I'd generally
reach my desk 10 seconds before the bell. All we had at home was a 3"
electric clock on the stove. That couldn't be read precisely, so I
relied on my internal clock.
Sometimes on a Monday morning I'd be 10 seconds late instead of 10
seconds early. I couldn't reset my internal clock on the principal's
whim, so I'd be 10 seconds late every day. By Friday, teachers would be
complaining about my continuing presence in detention. The principal
would fix his clock and Monday the school would be back in sync with me.
He could have saved detention teachers a lot of unpleasantness if he'd
checked with me or the Naval Observatory before tampering with the
grandfather clock.
krw wrote, on Fri, 31 Oct 2014 19:00:31 -0400:
> Less interruption? How so? When we were in high school (long before)
> there were no "bathroom passes". Classes were 50 minutes with 10
> minutes between. Young adults were expected to be potty trained.
San Jose high school classes are an hour and 45 minutes long, which is
double your class periods. On Mondays, they're very short. About an hour.
Stormin Mormon wrote, on Sat, 01 Nov 2014 08:59:41 -0400:
> That sounds like a lot too long to keep students at a desk. Half hour to
> 45 mins would make more sense. Need to get up and walk around. I don't
> think this sounds practical.
As a matter of fact, the teacher (who is brand new to teaching) asked me
for advice on how to keep the kids *engaged* for the entire hour and
forty five minutes.
She, knowing I'm good at googling, asked me to find some math games, and
I also gave her a big bag of extra Halloween chocolate I had bought,
which she is going to use to "reward" the kids when she catches them
being good.
She also knows my strong feeling that math isn't taught correctly, which
is a very long story, but the short of it is that math needs to be taught
from the practical problem standpoint.
For example, I suggested she think from the perspective of two kids
throwing rocks into a lake. What happens, mathematically. Or two kids
trying to kick a soccer ball into a net, while clearing the height of the
other kids. Things like that might keep the kids engaged, if, I
suggested, she *start* a problem that the kids might be interested in,
and then, working backwards, she bring in the math, and, in the end, the
equation and graphs (and, ug, proofs).
I told her to think of all the math that applies to that problem (or any
problem involving two kids trying to figure something out that two kids
would want to figure out), and to teach that way. She told me that is
a *lot* of work, and I did not disagree.
So, that might take years.
In the meantime, there are always the math games we found, which might
help to exercise the kids' bodies, every 30 minutes, for a five-minute
game.
On 11/1/14, 6:30 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>
> J Burns wrote:
>>
>> On 10/31/14, 7:34 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>>> We had five minutes between classes. Then the principal retired. His
>>> replacement cut it to three minutes between classes and turned off the
>>> bells even though the clock system needed a lot of work. It turned into
>>> a real mess when hundreds of kids were sent to the principal's office
>>> for being tardy for each class. The teachers used whatever their watch
>>> said, and no two were the same.
>>
>> Our school had a Western Union clock system governed by a grandfather
>> clock in the office. Occasionally we'd see classroom clocks jump because
>> the principal was adjusting the grandfather clock.
>>
>> I believed in punctuality, being neither late nor early. I'd generally
>> reach my desk 10 seconds before the bell. All we had at home was a 3"
>> electric clock on the stove. That couldn't be read precisely, so I
>> relied on my internal clock.
>>
>> Sometimes on a Monday morning I'd be 10 seconds late instead of 10
>> seconds early. I couldn't reset my internal clock on the principal's
>> whim, so I'd be 10 seconds late every day. By Friday, teachers would be
>> complaining about my continuing presence in detention. The principal
>> would fix his clock and Monday the school would be back in sync with me.
>>
>> He could have saved detention teachers a lot of unpleasantness if he'd
>> checked with me or the Naval Observatory before tampering with the
>> grandfather clock.
>
>
> That situation didn't last. Everyone was pissed off about it, and I'm
> sure that the school board heard from a lot of parents over it.
>
>
I guess we had three minutes, with synchronized clocks. Nobody stayed
after class to ask the teacher a question because there wasn't time. I
didn't use my locker for books because there wasn't time between classes.
Gym was the dangerous class. The teacher's wristwatch wasn't wired to
the school clocks, so we might be dismissed a little late. It took time
to open our locker, undress, close our locker, grab a towel, shower,
dry, open our locker, dress, close our locker, throw our towel in the
bin, walk to the classroom building, and climb a couple of flights of
stairs.
The yearbook hyped our monitors, maintaining law and order. Being a
monitor was an excuse to arrive late and leave early, but I didn't see
their purpose. Nobody had time to misbehave between classes. I wondered
if they got the idea for the armbands from the Hitler Youth.
John Grossbohlin wrote, on Sat, 01 Nov 2014 19:19:24 -0400:
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2014/10/24/
> teacher-spends-two-days-as-a-student-and-is-shocked-at-what-
> she-learned/?wpisrc=pdwmk
Here's a quick four-sentence takeaway ...
1. Those classes were short, at only 1 hour and 15 minutes.
2. Students don't move about, once in class.
3. It's mostly lecture.
4. The kids are constantly chastised.
On 11/1/14, 7:19 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
> "Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>> That sounds like a lot too long to keep students at a desk. Half
>> hour to 45 mins would make more sense. Need to get up and walk
>> around. I don't think this sounds practical.
>
>
> Along those lines...
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2014/10/24/teacher-spends-two-days-as-a-student-and-is-shocked-at-what-she-learned/?wpisrc=pdwmk
>
>
>
>
> Saw this article in other publications too...
>
>
Yeah! What was I supposed to do in a 50-minute lecture when my
attention span was under a minute? The fact that lectures were endless
repetition showed that teachers knew we were unable to pay attention.
They were putting us in a position where we had to sit still and pretend
to pay attention all day long.
Each teacher would proudly tell us how many hours we were expected to
spend on daily homework for that class. Add it up, and if you did
nothing but attend classes and do your homework, there might be time for
4 hours' sleep at night.
It sure seemed abusive to me, but this article says teachers really are
that stupid.
J Burns wrote:
> On 11/1/14, 7:19 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>> "Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
>>> That sounds like a lot too long to keep students at a desk. Half
>>> hour to 45 mins would make more sense. Need to get up and walk
>>> around. I don't think this sounds practical.
>>
>>
>> Along those lines...
>>
>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2014/10/24/teacher-spends-two-days-as-a-student-and-is-shocked-at-what-she-learned/?wpisrc=pdwmk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Saw this article in other publications too...
>>
>>
>
> Yeah! What was I supposed to do in a 50-minute lecture when my
> attention span was under a minute? The fact that lectures were
> endless repetition showed that teachers knew we were unable to pay
> attention. They were putting us in a position where we had to sit
> still and pretend to pay attention all day long.
>
> Each teacher would proudly tell us how many hours we were expected to
> spend on daily homework for that class. Add it up, and if you did
> nothing but attend classes and do your homework, there might be time
> for 4 hours' sleep at night.
>
> It sure seemed abusive to me, but this article says teachers really
> are that stupid.
They are all the same, huh? Was that your experience?
J Burns wrote:
> On 11/1/14, 7:19 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>> "Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
>>> That sounds like a lot too long to keep students at a desk. Half
>>> hour to 45 mins would make more sense. Need to get up and walk
>>> around. I don't think this sounds practical.
>>
>>
>> Along those lines...
>>
>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2014/10/24/teacher-spends-two-days-as-a-student-and-is-shocked-at-what-she-learned/?wpisrc=pdwmk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Saw this article in other publications too...
>>
>>
>
> Yeah! What was I supposed to do in a 50-minute lecture when my
> attention span was under a minute? The fact that lectures were
> endless repetition showed that teachers knew we were unable to pay
> attention. They were putting us in a position where we had to sit
> still and pretend to pay attention all day long.
Part of their job was to condition you for WORK as a member of
society. Don't they expect you to pay attention all day long at work?
>
> Each teacher would proudly tell us how many hours we were expected to
> spend on daily homework for that class. Add it up, and if you did
> nothing but attend classes and do your homework, there might be time
> for 4 hours' sleep at night.
>
> It sure seemed abusive to me, but this article says teachers really
> are that stupid.
On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 20:07:51 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>You do act a lot like a child psychologist nutter. I bet your kids
>are some messed up, too.
It was a joke. Miserable sense of humour you have.
J Burns wrote:
>
> On 10/31/14, 7:34 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> > We had five minutes between classes. Then the principal retired. His
> > replacement cut it to three minutes between classes and turned off the
> > bells even though the clock system needed a lot of work. It turned into
> > a real mess when hundreds of kids were sent to the principal's office
> > for being tardy for each class. The teachers used whatever their watch
> > said, and no two were the same.
>
> Our school had a Western Union clock system governed by a grandfather
> clock in the office. Occasionally we'd see classroom clocks jump because
> the principal was adjusting the grandfather clock.
>
> I believed in punctuality, being neither late nor early. I'd generally
> reach my desk 10 seconds before the bell. All we had at home was a 3"
> electric clock on the stove. That couldn't be read precisely, so I
> relied on my internal clock.
>
> Sometimes on a Monday morning I'd be 10 seconds late instead of 10
> seconds early. I couldn't reset my internal clock on the principal's
> whim, so I'd be 10 seconds late every day. By Friday, teachers would be
> complaining about my continuing presence in detention. The principal
> would fix his clock and Monday the school would be back in sync with me.
>
> He could have saved detention teachers a lot of unpleasantness if he'd
> checked with me or the Naval Observatory before tampering with the
> grandfather clock.
That situation didn't last. Everyone was pissed off about it, and I'm
sure that the school board heard from a lot of parents over it.
--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 01:25:48 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>[email protected] wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 30 Oct 2014 22:23:56 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Danny D." wrote:
>> >>
>> >> John Paquay wrote, on Thu, 30 Oct 2014 04:51:58 -0400:
>> >>
>> >> > My knee jerk reaction to the original posting in this thread was not
>> >> > "What's wrong with these kids?", but rather, "What's wrong with this
>> >> > teacher?"
>> >>
>> >> She's brand new to teaching, but, it turns out that classroom management
>> >> is a standard problem in these multi-ethnic San Jose schools.
>> >>
>> >> One teacher uses a bathroom plunger, as his bathroom pass.
>> >>
>> >> > To me, the whole idea of using some (any) ginormous item as a hall pass
>> >> > is stupid, demeaning, and completely counterproductive... not to
>> >> > mention, an exercise in futility. What does this really accomplish?
>> >>
>> >> What it (attempts to) accomplish is the reduce undue interruptions of
>> >> the classroom environment.
>> >>
>> >> We all know that the kids can go to the bathroom plenty of other times,
>> >> but, all kids will take advantage of a "free pass" out of jail, if
>> >> even for only 10 minutes (which they can synchronize with other friends,
>> >> if they're clever).
>> >
>> >
>> > The local high school has a single person restroom in each classroom.
>> >Problem, solved.
>>
>> When I was a kid, the only classrooms with bathrooms were kindergarten
>> classrooms. I guess it does make sense that they all would now.
>
>
> It's a lot less disruption to the class. I saw them during the last
>hurricane, when the building was used as a shelter for the disabled and
>senior citizens.
Less interruption? How so? When we were in high school (long before)
there were no "bathroom passes". Classes were 50 minutes with 10
minutes between. Young adults were expected to be potty trained.
On 11/1/2014 7:19 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
> "Stormin Mormon" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>
>> That sounds like a lot too long to keep
>> students at a desk. Half hour to 45 mins
>> would make more sense. Need to get up and
>> walk around. I don't think this sounds
>> practical.
>
>
> Along those lines...
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2014/10/24/teacher-spends-two-days-as-a-student-and-is-shocked-at-what-she-learned/?wpisrc=pdwmk
>
>
> Saw this article in other publications too...
>
>
That's seriously incredible. What a major
learning moment. And to think, schools over
the whole great nation do that to kids every
school day? Time for the peasants to start
a number two pencil revolt. You have nothing
to lose but your desks in rows!
-
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
[email protected] wrote:
>
> On Thu, 30 Oct 2014 22:23:56 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Danny D." wrote:
> >>
> >> John Paquay wrote, on Thu, 30 Oct 2014 04:51:58 -0400:
> >>
> >> > My knee jerk reaction to the original posting in this thread was not
> >> > "What's wrong with these kids?", but rather, "What's wrong with this
> >> > teacher?"
> >>
> >> She's brand new to teaching, but, it turns out that classroom management
> >> is a standard problem in these multi-ethnic San Jose schools.
> >>
> >> One teacher uses a bathroom plunger, as his bathroom pass.
> >>
> >> > To me, the whole idea of using some (any) ginormous item as a hall pass
> >> > is stupid, demeaning, and completely counterproductive... not to
> >> > mention, an exercise in futility. What does this really accomplish?
> >>
> >> What it (attempts to) accomplish is the reduce undue interruptions of
> >> the classroom environment.
> >>
> >> We all know that the kids can go to the bathroom plenty of other times,
> >> but, all kids will take advantage of a "free pass" out of jail, if
> >> even for only 10 minutes (which they can synchronize with other friends,
> >> if they're clever).
> >
> >
> > The local high school has a single person restroom in each classroom.
> >Problem, solved.
>
> When I was a kid, the only classrooms with bathrooms were kindergarten
> classrooms. I guess it does make sense that they all would now.
It's a lot less disruption to the class. I saw them during the last
hurricane, when the building was used as a shelter for the disabled and
senior citizens.
--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.
On 10/30/2014 10:25 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>
> Stormin Mormon wrote:
>> I've suspected since the beginning that the
>> bathroom pass is just a bandaid on a larger
>> problem. This supports my guess.
>
>
> Parents dumping defective kids on the school system.
CA is noted for the liberal left leaning culture.
Very possible the entire school system is run on
self esteem, and fragile feelings, instead of old
fashioned tried and true.
-
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Danny D." wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>The kids in the San Jose school district ruined the Bathroom Pass!
I'd take a different approach... As a complete unmolested lettered board it
is a bathroom pass. If altered it is not a bathroom pass and subjects the
student carrying it to the same penalties as any other "no pass" or "altered
pass" infraction. This would require the cooperation of the teachers and
administration who monitor student movement in the hallways... It may
require a few repair jobs in the beginning but I suspect that it would not
take long for the kids to figure this out. Maybe have two or three board
passes initially so there is always a good one available for the kids who
really need to go, or who have to deal with their monthly issues.
John
On Thu, 30 Oct 2014 18:40:41 -0400, Stormin Mormon
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On 10/30/2014 1:54 PM, Edward R. Rooney wrote:
>> On 10/30/2014 01:19 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> The kids in the San Jose school district ruined the Bathroom Pass!
>>>
>>
>> Spare the rod - spoil the child.
>> If you don't believe it, look at the mess we got now.
>>
>In the Bible days, the rod was used to
>nudge sheep back into the flock. Not to
>beat the sheep.
It gets their attention. That should be all that's needed.
On Thu, 30 Oct 2014 17:17:07 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Danny D. wrote:
>> John Paquay wrote, on Thu, 30 Oct 2014 04:51:58 -0400:
>>
>>> My knee jerk reaction to the original posting in this thread was not
>>> "What's wrong with these kids?", but rather, "What's wrong with this
>>> teacher?"
>>
>> She's brand new to teaching, but, it turns out that classroom
>> management is a standard problem in these multi-ethnic San Jose
>> schools.
>>
>
>Well - that's a big part of your problem. Rather than teaching kids =
things,=20
>parents and teachers rally around excuses for what the things exist. I =
wish=20
>you the best - deal with the problems you are creating.
>
>
>> One teacher uses a bathroom plunger, as his bathroom pass.
>
>Brilliant! Shear stupidity - so why shouldn't everyone else follow =
suit?
Mikw Marlow:
If you are so wise let's hear your solutions to each case where you
kvetched. There are several, let's hear what you would have the
teacher/school do.
?-/
>
>>
>>> To me, the whole idea of using some (any) ginormous item as a hall
>>> pass is stupid, demeaning, and completely counterproductive... not to
>>> mention, an exercise in futility. What does this really accomplish?
>>
>> What it (attempts to) accomplish is the reduce undue interruptions of
>> the classroom environment.
>>
>
>Brain dead thinking. But that's fine - do that kind of thinking where =
you=20
>live. What in the hell do you really think you are solving with this =
kind=20
>of approach?
>
>
>> We all know that the kids can go to the bathroom plenty of other
>> times, but, all kids will take advantage of a "free pass" out of
>> jail, if
>> even for only 10 minutes (which they can synchronize with other
>> friends, if they're clever).
>
>You just keep on letting those kids outsmart you. I'm sure you'll win =
that=20
>way...
>
>
>>
>> What the pass does, first and foremost, is it discourages such
>> intents.
>
>Bullshit! Are you and the teachers at that school that stupid as to =
really=20
>believe this? If so - muck in your own mire.
>
>> Also, it allows the teacher to continue teaching,
>> uninterrupted, as
>> the students just get up, grab the pass, and return, unannounced.
>
>Really? Do you even think about the things like this that you post?
>
>
>>
>> It also is very clear to everyone, what the purpose of the kid is,
>> whether grabbing the pass or walking the hallways. It's also not
>> something they can leave hidden in the hallway while they
>> surreptitiously run a'muck about the hallways or outdoors to catch a
>> smoke or whatever.
>
>Dear Parent...
>
>
>>
>> Likewise, it prevents multiple kids (from the same classroom anyway)
>> leaving the room at any one time.
>
>Really? The high paid teacher is this dumb as to not be aware of this=20
>syndrome? Really?
>
>
>>
>> Furthermore, it's obvious to all whether the bathroom pass is in use
>> or not. It's like the red sign on an airplane bathroom door showing
>> it's in use, rather than what we have to do at a McDonalds, which is
>> to jiggle the doorknob repeatedly to find out if someone is in there.
>
>Yeah - when I was a kid I had a really hard time understanding a locked=20
>door - are you really this stupid? How about facilities that accomodate=
4=20
>kids at once - where does that fit into your foolish thinking?
>
>>
>> And, being so large (on purpose), the kids, who almost certainly don't
>> like it, can't lose it easily.
>
>Oh man - that just can't be anymore stupid.
>
>>
>> At the very least, it's objectionable to carry (as you noted), which
>> would further discourage the unnecessary potty breaks.
>
>Really? What in the hell is the problem you are looking to solve? I =
think=20
>you have a California mindset which just does not think at all.
>
>
>>
>> Rest assured, this teacher has at least one kid a day out of her 200,
>> walk out on the class without excuse.
>
>Really? Then fire the teacher. That is her or his responsibility to =
make=20
>sure that kind of thing does not happen. Screw the 200 number - that's =
a=20
>classic over-exageration - how many students in any one class session? =
The=20
>total number is completely meaningless.
>
>
>> She has kids banging on the
>> table, and calling her a b*ch, and plenty of disciplinary problems,
>> all of which are common through all the classes, as she told me most
>> of these kids are being weeded out of the system through their
>> behavior in *all* their classes.
>
>Guess you guys need to improve your school disciplines and forget =
looking at=20
>magic tokens like stupid wood fobs for a key to the boys room. Do you=20
>really belive that is going to fix the problems you guys have created in=
=20
>your schools? Really? Are you really that dumb?
>
>>
>> I also find this behavior strange, as *my* kids have always had
>> comments on their report cards of "very polite", "always helpful",
>> "pitches in to volunteer every time I ask", and even once "raises
>> hand to answer questions too often!".
>
>Good for you! That's what is necessary - not stupid fobs.
>
>
>>
>> I think this teacher, who is brand new, is learning on the job. In
>> California, they go through 3 semesters of graduate training, to
>> obtain a preliminary teaching certificate, two semesters of which
>> have on-the-job training of sorts.
>>
>
>Kudos to you for trying to help a new teacher but don't you see that the=
=20
>problem is so much bigger than that?
>
>> Then, they're thrown to the wolves for 2 more years, until they get
>> their preliminary teaching certificate cleared. At that point, they
>> also get tenure (which is kind'a soon, if you ask me), and then
>> they're bona-fide teachers.
>
>Well - you might want to take the problem up with your school district. =
You=20
>guys created the problem and stupid ideas like wooden fobs is not going =
to=20
>fix that problem.
>
>
>>
>> The clearance process, apparently, starts with three weeks of
>> training on "classroom management", which I found odd when I saw that
>> it's the *first* thing they re-train the preliminary-credentialed
>> teachers on.
>
>Oh well...
>
>>
>> You have to remember these are Algebra classes, where probably only a
>> small percentage of the kids (maybe 1/3?) actually care to learn it.
>> It's a required class for the rest, which they hope to never see
>> again during the rest of their lives.
>
>We have to remember? Really? Are you that stupid? They are in school.=
=20
>They are there to learn what they are told to be taught. We have to=20
>remember? I see the very root of this problem...
>
>>
>> When is the last time you or I graphed a quadratic equation, for
>> example? Could each of us solve a binomial equation to save our lives?
>> (Building suspension bridges in the redwoods notwithstanding... :)
>
>Competely irrelevent! We did do it when we were in school. What does =
it=20
>matter at all when the last time was that we did it. I'll tell you that=
I=20
>have used that knowledge throughout my life - though it may not have =
been on=20
>a daily basis - but when I needed it, I could call on it. You are =
making=20
>excuses for dumbing down our already stupid kids even more?
On 10/28/2014 3:13 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>
>> Mike, I think that you may be overlooking the fact that the kids you
>> and I went to school with are not the same as the kids of today, at
>> least not the dilemma varies by school district, I think.
>> This sort of reminds me of something a previous boss of mine use to
>> say: "When you're up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to
>> remember that your original intention was to drain the swamp!" : )
>>
>
> I don't agree Bill. I don't think the kids are all that different. The
> parents and the teachers are a lot different - don't want to hurt the self
> esteem of kids, and all that crap. Kids though are still kids. They will
> do what they can get away with just like they always have. Today they can
> get away with more because adults are not adults these days. Teachers
> pamaper kids and parents don't parent. Both are afraid to do anything that
> might offend the brat. Too much psychology involved in dealing with kids
> today.
>
Perzakly Mike. Kids do as they see and are taught. Parents today are
of the generation that believes in unearned entitlement. They don't
know any better and their kids know nothing else. They want to treat
every one the same good or bad. They have lost the wisdom to
distinguish right from wrong.
On 10/28/2014 9:06 AM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
> On 10/27/2014 10:15 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Jonathan Williams wrote:
>>> Bill wrote, on Mon, 27 Oct 2014 13:37:49 -0400:
>>>
>>>> I vaguely recollect a toilet seat being one of them. Like a pink
>>>> wrench, no one will steal it.
>>>
>>> One teacher in this San Jose school district,uses a toilet plunger,
>>> for the same effect.
>>
>> It's pretty pathetic when people earning upwards of $100K a year (or
>> more),
>> who deal with children, have to resort to this kind of question and
>> discussion. Really? Stupid ideas like toilet seats, wrenchs, plungers?
>> Good grief - this is foolish. The entire topic was nothing short of
>> foolish.
>>
> I agree there is foolishness in this thread, BUT the foolishness is not
> that the discussion is taking place, but that the teacher must revert to
> such things to keeps some sort of order in the class room. Where are the
> parents supporting the teacher to keep these little criminals from
> disrupting the class room.
>
> Oh I forgot they were brought up to have self esteem not be to be good
> citizen, and respect the people who are trying to help them learn
My knee jerk reaction to the original posting in this thread was not
"What's wrong with these kids?", but rather, "What's wrong with this
teacher?"
To me, the whole idea of using some (any) ginormous item as a hall pass
is stupid, demeaning, and completely counterproductive... not to
mention, an exercise in futility. What does this really accomplish?
The good old days were certainly different, but they weren't necessarily
always that good. Still, if this is how our educators are now treating
our kids, what should we expect from the kids?
Danny's willingness and efforts to help this teacher are admirable, but
I'm afraid she needs a kind of help that can't be found in a wood shop.
Clearly she is in the wrong profession, and a big chunk of wood is not
going to change that. Foolishness, yes. But it makes me a little sad for
the kids.
--
This is my signature. Really. I'm not kidding. Stop reading now.
Stormin Mormon wrote:
>
> On 10/30/2014 12:20 PM, Danny D. wrote:
>
> > She has kids banging on the table,
> > and calling her a b*ch, and plenty of disciplinary problems, all of which
> > are common through all the classes, as she told me most of these kids are
> > being weeded out of the system through their behavior in *all* their
> > classes.
> >
>
> I've suspected since the beginning that the
> bathroom pass is just a bandaid on a larger
> problem. This supports my guess.
Parents dumping defective kids on the school system.
--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.
"Danny D." wrote:
>
> John Paquay wrote, on Thu, 30 Oct 2014 04:51:58 -0400:
>
> > My knee jerk reaction to the original posting in this thread was not
> > "What's wrong with these kids?", but rather, "What's wrong with this
> > teacher?"
>
> She's brand new to teaching, but, it turns out that classroom management
> is a standard problem in these multi-ethnic San Jose schools.
>
> One teacher uses a bathroom plunger, as his bathroom pass.
>
> > To me, the whole idea of using some (any) ginormous item as a hall pass
> > is stupid, demeaning, and completely counterproductive... not to
> > mention, an exercise in futility. What does this really accomplish?
>
> What it (attempts to) accomplish is the reduce undue interruptions of
> the classroom environment.
>
> We all know that the kids can go to the bathroom plenty of other times,
> but, all kids will take advantage of a "free pass" out of jail, if
> even for only 10 minutes (which they can synchronize with other friends,
> if they're clever).
The local high school has a single person restroom in each classroom.
Problem, solved.
--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.
On Thu, 30 Oct 2014 22:23:56 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Danny D." wrote:
>>
>> John Paquay wrote, on Thu, 30 Oct 2014 04:51:58 -0400:
>>
>> > My knee jerk reaction to the original posting in this thread was not
>> > "What's wrong with these kids?", but rather, "What's wrong with this
>> > teacher?"
>>
>> She's brand new to teaching, but, it turns out that classroom management
>> is a standard problem in these multi-ethnic San Jose schools.
>>
>> One teacher uses a bathroom plunger, as his bathroom pass.
>>
>> > To me, the whole idea of using some (any) ginormous item as a hall pass
>> > is stupid, demeaning, and completely counterproductive... not to
>> > mention, an exercise in futility. What does this really accomplish?
>>
>> What it (attempts to) accomplish is the reduce undue interruptions of
>> the classroom environment.
>>
>> We all know that the kids can go to the bathroom plenty of other times,
>> but, all kids will take advantage of a "free pass" out of jail, if
>> even for only 10 minutes (which they can synchronize with other friends,
>> if they're clever).
>
>
> The local high school has a single person restroom in each classroom.
>Problem, solved.
When I was a kid, the only classrooms with bathrooms were kindergarten
classrooms. I guess it does make sense that they all would now.
On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 19:01:27 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 18:32:38 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>>When I was in school, the father of family with the most screwed up
>>kids (one committed suicide, IIRC) was a child psychologist. The
>>goofy bastard tried to run me over once.
>
>Hey, you can't fault him for that. I'd have tried to run you over too.
>:)
You do act a lot like a child psychologist nutter. I bet your kids
are some messed up, too.
Stormin Mormon wrote, on Mon, 27 Oct 2014 03:05:09 -0400:
> Have the teacher example dat ass every time it comes
> back, and if there are any letters missing, apply
> the board of education to the seat of wisdom.
It's funny, but, apparently the teacher didn't want to tell me
that the spray-painted letters didn't last a week at the school.
She thought I would be upset.
I took it as a challenge, to see if I could keep a bunch of
high-school hoodlums at bay. You can't defeat them, but, you can
make it hard for them.
So, with the letters now deeply routered (is that a verb?), and
the knife marks in the back sanded out, and the back painted black
so that the gang graffiti is covered, I think I just made it
a bit harder for them to vandalize it.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3950/15018893163_fa337967da_b.jpg
Of course, the teacher told me they unscrewed her desk and hid it
two classes down the hall, so, they're formidable opponents.
But, they are kids, after all, and so, I hope that by the end of the
year, I'll have a system (titanium perhaps?) that they can't deface!
:)
On 11/1/2014 8:36 PM, J Burns wrote:
>>> Now I remember. Starting around 7th grade, my schools did have
>>> bathrooms. No tubs, just communal showers. It was compulsory to bathe
>>> together twice a week.
>>
>> Hmm, perhaps you're not Abe. Et tu Brute? ;-)
>>
> You would have been safe at our school. Strict policy against knives in
> the shower. Most blades were carbon steel, which could rust.
When showers are outlawed, only perverts
will have showers.
-
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
On 11/1/14, 6:20 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 01 Nov 2014 03:12:25 -0400, J Burns <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On 10/31/14, 7:01 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 16:19:25 -0400, J Burns <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/30/14, 10:49 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> When I was a kid, the only classrooms with bathrooms were kindergarten
>>>>> classrooms. I guess it does make sense that they all would now.
>>>>
>>>> When I was a kid, schools didn't have bathrooms. At home, my mother
>>>> made us bathe every week.
>>>
>>> OK, Abe. ;-)
>>>
>> Now I remember. Starting around 7th grade, my schools did have
>> bathrooms. No tubs, just communal showers. It was compulsory to bathe
>> together twice a week.
>
> Hmm, perhaps you're not Abe. Et tu Brute? ;-)
>
You would have been safe at our school. Strict policy against knives in
the shower. Most blades were carbon steel, which could rust.
On Sat, 01 Nov 2014 03:12:25 -0400, J Burns <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 10/31/14, 7:01 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 16:19:25 -0400, J Burns <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/30/14, 10:49 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> When I was a kid, the only classrooms with bathrooms were kindergarten
>>>> classrooms. I guess it does make sense that they all would now.
>>>
>>> When I was a kid, schools didn't have bathrooms. At home, my mother
>>> made us bathe every week.
>>
>> OK, Abe. ;-)
>>
>Now I remember. Starting around 7th grade, my schools did have
>bathrooms. No tubs, just communal showers. It was compulsory to bathe
>together twice a week.
Hmm, perhaps you're not Abe. Et tu Brute? ;-)
Stormin Mormon <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> Ideally, the kids are supposed to be learning obedience
> to law, and some other things like that.
To be good little sheeple?
>If they are
> defacing the potty pass, maybe they can hold it till
> class is over?
Catholic schools are good at that. Leads to medical problems later in
life.
--
-----------------------------------------------------
Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
-----------------------------------------------------
Oren wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 08:19:38 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> But, they are kids, after all, and so, I hope that by the end of the
>> year, I'll have a system (titanium perhaps?) that they can't deface!
> 8" Ball and Chain
>
> - Made of Metal with an Iron Chain
> - Ball Is about 8" in Diameter
> - Chain Is about 26" Long - Shackle Is about 3.5" Wide
Among the various things I saw used for this purpose while I was going
through school,
I vaguely recollect a toilet seat being one of them. Like a pink
wrench, no one will steal it.
>
> <https://tinyurl.com/naeexp4>
>
> But get a "real" one :)
"Bill" wrote:
> Even an hour is a long time for students to listen to a lecture. One
> secret to making it work is to include
> some group activity such as a worksheet, so that the students are
> not just (not) listening to a lecture.
---------------------------------------------------
Basic law of any instruction:
"The mind can absorb what the ass can endure".
Lew
[email protected] wrote:
>
> On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 19:34:10 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >[email protected] wrote:
> >>
> >> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> >> >
> >> > It's a lot less disruption to the class. I saw them during the
> >> > lasthurricane, when the building was used as a shelter for the
> >> > disabled and senior citizens.
> >>
> >> Less interruption? How so? When we were in high school (long before)
> >> there were no "bathroom passes". Classes were 50 minutes with 10
> >> minutes between. Young adults were expected to be potty trained.
> >
> > By letting them get up and use it quickly without interrupting the
> >class to ask for the pass and the time it took to return it. Some people
> >have medical problems, and the need arises without much warning.
>
> *Exceedingly* few high school students have such problems. There are
> ways to deal with those few. IOW, a red herring.
>
> > We had five minutes between classes. Then the principal retired. His
> >replacement cut it to three minutes between classes and turned off the
> >bells even though the clock system needed a lot of work. It turned into
> >a real mess when hundreds of kids were sent to the principal's office
> >for being tardy for each class. The teachers used whatever their watch
> >said, and no two were the same.
>
> Your principal and the entire faculty, in fact, were morons. Maybe
> they were just ahead of their time. It also must have been a very
> small high school.
1400
--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.
[email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 01 Nov 2014 08:59:41 -0400, Stormin Mormon
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 11/1/2014 8:15 AM, Danny D. wrote:
>>> San Jose high school classes are an
>>> hour and 45 minutes long, which is
>>> double your class periods. On Mondays,
>>> they're very short. About an hour.
>>>
>> That sounds like a lot too long to keep
>> students at a desk. Half hour to 45 mins
>> would make more sense. Need to get up and
>> walk around. I don't think this sounds
>> practical.
> +1
>
> An hour is about all one can expect for an attention span. My son had
> classes that went two hours but they were really a combination of two
> (English and history, or some the like). They were combined classes
> with about twice the size, with two teachers. They had plenty of
> breaks and changes of topics during the classes.
>
> Add in the current ADD "epidemic" and it can't work.
Even an hour is a long time for students to listen to a lecture. One
secret to making it work is to include
some group activity such as a worksheet, so that the students are not
just (not) listening to a lecture.
Bill wrote, on Sat, 01 Nov 2014 18:19:12 -0400:
> Even an hour is a long time for students to listen to a lecture. One
> secret to making it work is to include some group activity such as a
> worksheet, so that the students are not just (not) listening to a
> lecture.
I did help her create some worksheets, as she was unfamiliar with
manipulating Microsoft Office to make graphs.
I ended up making tables, and it took a while to figure out how to make
the boxes the same with and length, and then how to add the x and y axis,
as I couldn't get the tables to "group" with the drawn axis even myself.
In the end, I gave up on Microsoft Word simply because I couldn't get the
non-groupable items to move together, as a single unit, when text was
changed.
So, I opted for PowerPoint, instead of Word, and made a few templates for
her for her worksheets. She put the kids in groups, and they moved the
chairs together (forcing them to stand up) and they worked together.
That gives the kids "some" exercise.
Danny D. wrote:
> She put the kids in groups, and they moved the
> chairs together (forcing them to stand up) and they worked together.
>
> That gives the kids "some" exercise.
>
>
The kids can work in groups standing around the edge of the room,
working together at the "board" for instance (you suggested this was a
math class).
Keep them out of their chairs!!! What do they need chairs for? Perhaps
let them return to their chairs as a "reward" for finishing their work
(but you
do not wish to turn it into a race!) I think it works best if you
arrange the groups to consist of students of balanced ability--otherwise
the weakest and the strongest
students seem to end up in the same group. The idea is for the strong
students to help the weaker ones. BTDT.
On Sat, 01 Nov 2014 08:59:41 -0400, Stormin Mormon
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On 11/1/2014 8:15 AM, Danny D. wrote:
>>
>> San Jose high school classes are an
> > hour and 45 minutes long, which is
>> double your class periods. On Mondays,
> > they're very short. About an hour.
>>
>
>That sounds like a lot too long to keep
>students at a desk. Half hour to 45 mins
>would make more sense. Need to get up and
>walk around. I don't think this sounds
>practical.
+1
An hour is about all one can expect for an attention span. My son had
classes that went two hours but they were really a combination of two
(English and history, or some the like). They were combined classes
with about twice the size, with two teachers. They had plenty of
breaks and changes of topics during the classes.
Add in the current ADD "epidemic" and it can't work.
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 19:34:10 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>[email protected] wrote:
>>
>> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>> >
>> > It's a lot less disruption to the class. I saw them during the
>> > lasthurricane, when the building was used as a shelter for the
>> > disabled and senior citizens.
>>
>> Less interruption? How so? When we were in high school (long before)
>> there were no "bathroom passes". Classes were 50 minutes with 10
>> minutes between. Young adults were expected to be potty trained.
>
> By letting them get up and use it quickly without interrupting the
>class to ask for the pass and the time it took to return it. Some people
>have medical problems, and the need arises without much warning.
*Exceedingly* few high school students have such problems. There are
ways to deal with those few. IOW, a red herring.
> We had five minutes between classes. Then the principal retired. His
>replacement cut it to three minutes between classes and turned off the
>bells even though the clock system needed a lot of work. It turned into
>a real mess when hundreds of kids were sent to the principal's office
>for being tardy for each class. The teachers used whatever their watch
>said, and no two were the same.
Your principal and the entire faculty, in fact, were morons. Maybe
they were just ahead of their time. It also must have been a very
small high school.
Jonathan Williams wrote:
> Bill wrote, on Mon, 27 Oct 2014 13:37:49 -0400:
>
>> I vaguely recollect a toilet seat being one of them. Like a pink
>> wrench, no one will steal it.
>
> One teacher in this San Jose school district,uses a toilet plunger,
> for the same effect.
It's pretty pathetic when people earning upwards of $100K a year (or more),
who deal with children, have to resort to this kind of question and
discussion. Really? Stupid ideas like toilet seats, wrenchs, plungers?
Good grief - this is foolish. The entire topic was nothing short of
foolish.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 20:38:05 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>[email protected] wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 19:34:10 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >[email protected] wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > It's a lot less disruption to the class. I saw them during the
>> >> > lasthurricane, when the building was used as a shelter for the
>> >> > disabled and senior citizens.
>> >>
>> >> Less interruption? How so? When we were in high school (long before)
>> >> there were no "bathroom passes". Classes were 50 minutes with 10
>> >> minutes between. Young adults were expected to be potty trained.
>> >
>> > By letting them get up and use it quickly without interrupting the
>> >class to ask for the pass and the time it took to return it. Some people
>> >have medical problems, and the need arises without much warning.
>>
>> *Exceedingly* few high school students have such problems. There are
>> ways to deal with those few. IOW, a red herring.
>>
>> > We had five minutes between classes. Then the principal retired. His
>> >replacement cut it to three minutes between classes and turned off the
>> >bells even though the clock system needed a lot of work. It turned into
>> >a real mess when hundreds of kids were sent to the principal's office
>> >for being tardy for each class. The teachers used whatever their watch
>> >said, and no two were the same.
>>
>> Your principal and the entire faculty, in fact, were morons. Maybe
>> they were just ahead of their time. It also must have been a very
>> small high school.
>
>1400
That's about the same size as our HS. I can't believe any principal
would be so stupid as to believe classrooms could be emptied, people
jam halls, all mixing on their way to the next class, and file into
the next class in 3 minutes, particularly when the clocks don't work
(ours almost always did - Simplex and IBM, same clocks). Add to that
the "need" for bathroom passes, and he must have been someone current
administrations could look up to.
On Sat, 01 Nov 2014 18:19:12 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:
>[email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 01 Nov 2014 08:59:41 -0400, Stormin Mormon
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/1/2014 8:15 AM, Danny D. wrote:
>>>> San Jose high school classes are an
>>>> hour and 45 minutes long, which is
>>>> double your class periods. On Mondays,
>>>> they're very short. About an hour.
>>>>
>>> That sounds like a lot too long to keep
>>> students at a desk. Half hour to 45 mins
>>> would make more sense. Need to get up and
>>> walk around. I don't think this sounds
>>> practical.
>> +1
>>
>> An hour is about all one can expect for an attention span. My son had
>> classes that went two hours but they were really a combination of two
>> (English and history, or some the like). They were combined classes
>> with about twice the size, with two teachers. They had plenty of
>> breaks and changes of topics during the classes.
>>
>> Add in the current ADD "epidemic" and it can't work.
>
>Even an hour is a long time for students to listen to a lecture. One
>secret to making it work is to include
>some group activity such as a worksheet, so that the students are not
>just (not) listening to a lecture.
Agreed. Unless there is some contribution from everyone, an hour is a
lot. At work, meetings generally last an hour, though design reviews
can lass all day. There is a lot of participation, though. Neither
are "lectures", by any stretch). When suppliers come in for classes,
they take 15 minute breaks about every 45 minutes (time to stretch and
check emails ;-). OTOH, we aren't required to check out a plunger to
go to the rest room, either. In fact, attendance is rarely required.
[email protected] wrote:
>
> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> >
> >[email protected] wrote:
> >>
> >> Your principal and the entire faculty, in fact, were morons. Maybe
> >> they were just ahead of their time. It also must have been a very
> >> small high school.
> >
> >1400
>
> That's about the same size as our HS. I can't believe any principal
> would be so stupid as to believe classrooms could be emptied, people
> jam halls, all mixing on their way to the next class, and file into
> the next class in 3 minutes, particularly when the clocks don't work
> (ours almost always did - Simplex and IBM, same clocks). Add to that
> the "need" for bathroom passes, and he must have been someone current
> administrations could look up to.
He was a liberal loon. You couldn't get from one end of the campus to
the other in three minutes, with the crowded hallways. I averaged 4:15
from science class, to electronics, then 4:00 back to the new wing for
the next class.
This was an IBM clock system, but parts of it were over 50 years old.
The oldest part of the school was built in the 1800s.
--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.
Mike Marlow wrote:
> Jonathan Williams wrote:
>> Bill wrote, on Mon, 27 Oct 2014 13:37:49 -0400:
>>
>>> I vaguely recollect a toilet seat being one of them. Like a pink
>>> wrench, no one will steal it.
>> One teacher in this San Jose school district,uses a toilet plunger,
>> for the same effect.
> It's pretty pathetic when people earning upwards of $100K a year (or more),
> who deal with children, have to resort to this kind of question and
> discussion. Really? Stupid ideas like toilet seats, wrenchs, plungers?
> Good grief - this is foolish. The entire topic was nothing short of
> foolish.
The datass suggests the perfect solution has not been found. I think
it's like "cat and mouse" to the students.
Bill wrote, on Tue, 28 Oct 2014 00:21:04 -0400:
> The data suggests the perfect solution has not been found. I think
> it's like "cat and mouse" to the students.
I fully expect the students to deface this new paddle.
But, short of making it out of titanium, I wasn't sure how to proceed.
It's kind of like a game of whack-a-mole.
On 10/27/2014 10:15 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Jonathan Williams wrote:
>> Bill wrote, on Mon, 27 Oct 2014 13:37:49 -0400:
>>
>>> I vaguely recollect a toilet seat being one of them. Like a pink
>>> wrench, no one will steal it.
>>
>> One teacher in this San Jose school district,uses a toilet plunger,
>> for the same effect.
>
> It's pretty pathetic when people earning upwards of $100K a year (or more),
> who deal with children, have to resort to this kind of question and
> discussion. Really? Stupid ideas like toilet seats, wrenchs, plungers?
> Good grief - this is foolish. The entire topic was nothing short of
> foolish.
>
I agree there is foolishness in this thread, BUT the foolishness is not
that the discussion is taking place, but that the teacher must revert to
such things to keeps some sort of order in the class room. Where are
the parents supporting the teacher to keep these little criminals from
disrupting the class room.
Oh I forgot they were brought up to have self esteem not be to be good
citizen, and respect the people who are trying to help them learn
Keith Nuttle wrote:
> On 10/27/2014 10:15 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Jonathan Williams wrote:
>>> Bill wrote, on Mon, 27 Oct 2014 13:37:49 -0400:
>>>
>>>> I vaguely recollect a toilet seat being one of them. Like a pink
>>>> wrench, no one will steal it.
>>>
>>> One teacher in this San Jose school district,uses a toilet plunger,
>>> for the same effect.
>>
>> It's pretty pathetic when people earning upwards of $100K a year (or
>> more), who deal with children, have to resort to this kind of
>> question and discussion. Really? Stupid ideas like toilet seats,
>> wrenchs, plungers? Good grief - this is foolish. The entire topic
>> was nothing short of foolish.
>>
> I agree there is foolishness in this thread, BUT the foolishness is
> not that the discussion is taking place, but that the teacher must
> revert to such things to keeps some sort of order in the class room. Where
> are the parents supporting the teacher to keep these little
> criminals from disrupting the class room.
>
> Oh I forgot they were brought up to have self esteem not be to be good
> citizen, and respect the people who are trying to help them learn
Agreed - that was the point I was trying to make but I think I got a little
off track and did not make my point well. For godssake - can't a teacher
with a Masters degree figure out how to deal with kids? They sure did when
I went to school. Parents - well that's a whole 'nother topic...
As for this whole foolishness of self-esteem - well...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Mike Marlow wrote:
> Keith Nuttle wrote:
>> On 10/27/2014 10:15 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>> Jonathan Williams wrote:
>>>> Bill wrote, on Mon, 27 Oct 2014 13:37:49 -0400:
>>>>
>>>>> I vaguely recollect a toilet seat being one of them. Like a pink
>>>>> wrench, no one will steal it.
>>>> One teacher in this San Jose school district,uses a toilet plunger,
>>>> for the same effect.
>>> It's pretty pathetic when people earning upwards of $100K a year (or
>>> more), who deal with children, have to resort to this kind of
>>> question and discussion. Really? Stupid ideas like toilet seats,
>>> wrenchs, plungers? Good grief - this is foolish. The entire topic
>>> was nothing short of foolish.
>>>
>> I agree there is foolishness in this thread, BUT the foolishness is
>> not that the discussion is taking place, but that the teacher must
>> revert to such things to keeps some sort of order in the class room. Where
>> are the parents supporting the teacher to keep these little
>> criminals from disrupting the class room.
>>
>> Oh I forgot they were brought up to have self esteem not be to be good
>> citizen, and respect the people who are trying to help them learn
> Agreed - that was the point I was trying to make but I think I got a little
> off track and did not make my point well. For godssake - can't a teacher
> with a Masters degree figure out how to deal with kids?
Mike, I think that you may be overlooking the fact that the kids you and
I went to school with are not the same as the kids of today, at least not
the dilemma varies by school district, I think.
This sort of reminds me of something a previous boss of mine use to say:
"When you're up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember that
your original intention was to drain the swamp!" : )
> They sure did when
> I went to school. Parents - well that's a whole 'nother topic...
>
> As for this whole foolishness of self-esteem - well...
>
Bill wrote:
> Mike, I think that you may be overlooking the fact that the kids you
> and I went to school with are not the same as the kids of today, at
> least not the dilemma varies by school district, I think.
> This sort of reminds me of something a previous boss of mine use to
> say: "When you're up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to
> remember that your original intention was to drain the swamp!" : )
>
I don't agree Bill. I don't think the kids are all that different. The
parents and the teachers are a lot different - don't want to hurt the self
esteem of kids, and all that crap. Kids though are still kids. They will
do what they can get away with just like they always have. Today they can
get away with more because adults are not adults these days. Teachers
pamaper kids and parents don't parent. Both are afraid to do anything that
might offend the brat. Too much psychology involved in dealing with kids
today.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On 10/28/2014 4:13 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>
>> Mike, I think that you may be overlooking the fact that the kids you
>> and I went to school with are not the same as the kids of today, at
>> least not the dilemma varies by school district, I think.
>> This sort of reminds me of something a previous boss of mine use to
>> say: "When you're up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to
>> remember that your original intention was to drain the swamp!" : )
>>
>
> I don't agree Bill. I don't think the kids are all that different. The
> parents and the teachers are a lot different - don't want to hurt the self
> esteem of kids, and all that crap. Kids though are still kids. They will
> do what they can get away with just like they always have. Today they can
> get away with more because adults are not adults these days. Teachers
> pamaper kids and parents don't parent. Both are afraid to do anything that
> might offend the brat. Too much psychology involved in dealing with kids
> today.
>
I fully agree, and until the parents talk, or are forced to talk the
responsibility for the children they bring into the world the kid
problems will only get worse.
Mike Marlow wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>
>> Mike, I think that you may be overlooking the fact that the kids you
>> and I went to school with are not the same as the kids of today, at
>> least note that the dilemma varies by school district, I think.
>> This sort of reminds me of something a previous boss of mine use to
>> say: "When you're up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to
>> remember that your original intention was to drain the swamp!" : )
>>
> I don't agree Bill. I don't think the kids are all that different. The
> parents and the teachers are a lot different - don't want to hurt the self
> esteem of kids, and all that crap.
I don't disagree with you, Mike. You said it all here in your next
sentence. Mom (and dad?)-- and maybe society shares the blame too, isn't
raising the same kids that it used to. Maybe I should say that a baby
is a baby is baby, but what that baby grows into
has changed, on the average, over the years. Of course, the results
vary by school district, along with socio-economic background too.
Would anyone argue that today's kids aren't more "sex savvy"? Sex is
practically forced down their throats by the media.
> Kids though are still kids. They will
> do what they can get away with just like they always have. Today they can
> get away with more because adults are not adults these days. Teachers
> pamaper kids and parents don't parent. Both are afraid to do anything that
> might offend the brat. Too much psychology involved in dealing with kids
> today.
>
John Paquay wrote, on Thu, 30 Oct 2014 04:51:58 -0400:
> My knee jerk reaction to the original posting in this thread was not
> "What's wrong with these kids?", but rather, "What's wrong with this
> teacher?"
She's brand new to teaching, but, it turns out that classroom management
is a standard problem in these multi-ethnic San Jose schools.
One teacher uses a bathroom plunger, as his bathroom pass.
> To me, the whole idea of using some (any) ginormous item as a hall pass
> is stupid, demeaning, and completely counterproductive... not to
> mention, an exercise in futility. What does this really accomplish?
What it (attempts to) accomplish is the reduce undue interruptions of
the classroom environment.
We all know that the kids can go to the bathroom plenty of other times,
but, all kids will take advantage of a "free pass" out of jail, if
even for only 10 minutes (which they can synchronize with other friends,
if they're clever).
What the pass does, first and foremost, is it discourages such intents.
Also, it allows the teacher to continue teaching, uninterrupted, as
the students just get up, grab the pass, and return, unannounced.
It also is very clear to everyone, what the purpose of the kid is,
whether grabbing the pass or walking the hallways. It's also not
something they can leave hidden in the hallway while they surreptitiously
run a'muck about the hallways or outdoors to catch a smoke or whatever.
Likewise, it prevents multiple kids (from the same classroom anyway)
leaving the room at any one time.
Furthermore, it's obvious to all whether the bathroom pass is in use or
not. It's like the red sign on an airplane bathroom door showing it's in
use, rather than what we have to do at a McDonalds, which is to jiggle
the doorknob repeatedly to find out if someone is in there.
And, being so large (on purpose), the kids, who almost certainly don't
like it, can't lose it easily.
At the very least, it's objectionable to carry (as you noted), which
would further discourage the unnecessary potty breaks.
Rest assured, this teacher has at least one kid a day out of her 200,
walk out on the class without excuse. She has kids banging on the table,
and calling her a b*ch, and plenty of disciplinary problems, all of which
are common through all the classes, as she told me most of these kids are
being weeded out of the system through their behavior in *all* their
classes.
I also find this behavior strange, as *my* kids have always had comments
on their report cards of "very polite", "always helpful", "pitches in to
volunteer every time I ask", and even once "raises hand to answer
questions too often!".
Heh heh ... the apple doesn't fall far from the tree ...
> The good old days were certainly different, but they weren't necessarily
> always that good. Still, if this is how our educators are now treating
> our kids, what should we expect from the kids?
I think this teacher, who is brand new, is learning on the job. In
California, they go through 3 semesters of graduate training, to obtain a
preliminary teaching certificate, two semesters of which have on-the-job
training of sorts.
Then, they're thrown to the wolves for 2 more years, until they get their
preliminary teaching certificate cleared. At that point, they also get
tenure (which is kind'a soon, if you ask me), and then they're bona-fide
teachers.
The clearance process, apparently, starts with three weeks of training on
"classroom management", which I found odd when I saw that it's the
*first* thing they re-train the preliminary-credentialed teachers on.
> I'm afraid she needs a kind of help that can't be found in a wood shop.
> Clearly she is in the wrong profession, and a big chunk of wood is not
> going to change that. Foolishness, yes. But it makes me a little sad for
> the kids.
Out of 200 kids that she has, she estimated, to me, that about 10% are
the ones using the bathroom pass constantly. The rest sit and listen.
You have to remember these are Algebra classes, where probably only a
small percentage of the kids (maybe 1/3?) actually care to learn it. It's
a required class for the rest, which they hope to never see again during
the rest of their lives.
When is the last time you or I graphed a quadratic equation, for example?
Could each of us solve a binomial equation to save our lives?
(Building suspension bridges in the redwoods notwithstanding... :)
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7532/15647694115_c6aaeda78c_c.jpg
Danny D. wrote:
> John Paquay wrote, on Thu, 30 Oct 2014 04:51:58 -0400:
>
>> My knee jerk reaction to the original posting in this thread was not
>> "What's wrong with these kids?", but rather, "What's wrong with this
>> teacher?"
> She's brand new to teaching, but, it turns out that classroom management
> is a standard problem in these multi-ethnic San Jose schools.
>
> One teacher uses a bathroom plunger, as his bathroom pass.
>
>> To me, the whole idea of using some (any) ginormous item as a hall pass
>> is stupid, demeaning, and completely counterproductive... not to
>> mention, an exercise in futility. What does this really accomplish?
> What it (attempts to) accomplish is the reduce undue interruptions of
> the classroom environment.
>
> We all know that the kids can go to the bathroom plenty of other times,
> but, all kids will take advantage of a "free pass" out of jail, if
> even for only 10 minutes (which they can synchronize with other friends,
> if they're clever).
>
> What the pass does, first and foremost, is it discourages such intents.
> Also, it allows the teacher to continue teaching, uninterrupted, as
> the students just get up, grab the pass, and return, unannounced.
>
> It also is very clear to everyone, what the purpose of the kid is,
> whether grabbing the pass or walking the hallways. It's also not
> something they can leave hidden in the hallway while they surreptitiously
> run a'muck about the hallways or outdoors to catch a smoke or whatever.
>
> Likewise, it prevents multiple kids (from the same classroom anyway)
> leaving the room at any one time.
>
> Furthermore, it's obvious to all whether the bathroom pass is in use or
> not. It's like the red sign on an airplane bathroom door showing it's in
> use, rather than what we have to do at a McDonalds, which is to jiggle
> the doorknob repeatedly to find out if someone is in there.
>
> And, being so large (on purpose), the kids, who almost certainly don't
> like it, can't lose it easily.
>
> At the very least, it's objectionable to carry (as you noted), which
> would further discourage the unnecessary potty breaks.
>
> Rest assured, this teacher has at least one kid a day out of her 200,
> walk out on the class without excuse. She has kids banging on the table,
> and calling her a b*ch, and plenty of disciplinary problems, all of which
> are common through all the classes, as she told me most of these kids are
> being weeded out of the system through their behavior in *all* their
> classes.
>
> I also find this behavior strange, as *my* kids have always had comments
> on their report cards of "very polite", "always helpful", "pitches in to
> volunteer every time I ask", and even once "raises hand to answer
> questions too often!".
>
> Heh heh ... the apple doesn't fall far from the tree ...
>
>> The good old days were certainly different, but they weren't necessarily
>> always that good. Still, if this is how our educators are now treating
>> our kids, what should we expect from the kids?
> I think this teacher, who is brand new, is learning on the job. In
> California, they go through 3 semesters of graduate training, to obtain a
> preliminary teaching certificate, two semesters of which have on-the-job
> training of sorts.
>
> Then, they're thrown to the wolves for 2 more years, until they get their
> preliminary teaching certificate cleared. At that point, they also get
> tenure (which is kind'a soon, if you ask me), and then they're bona-fide
> teachers.
>
> The clearance process, apparently, starts with three weeks of training on
> "classroom management", which I found odd when I saw that it's the
> *first* thing they re-train the preliminary-credentialed teachers on.
>
>> I'm afraid she needs a kind of help that can't be found in a wood shop.
>> Clearly she is in the wrong profession, and a big chunk of wood is not
>> going to change that. Foolishness, yes. But it makes me a little sad for
>> the kids.
> Out of 200 kids that she has, she estimated, to me, that about 10% are
> the ones using the bathroom pass constantly. The rest sit and listen.
>
> You have to remember these are Algebra classes, where probably only a
> small percentage of the kids (maybe 1/3?) actually care to learn it. It's
> a required class for the rest, which they hope to never see again during
> the rest of their lives.
>
> When is the last time you or I graphed a quadratic equation, for example?
> Could each of us solve a binomial equation to save our lives?
You graph a quadratic function, and solve a quadratic equation.
I use the binomial formula almost everyday.
How about the Gamma function? Bring it on! ; )
> (Building suspension bridges in the redwoods notwithstanding... :)
> https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7532/15647694115_c6aaeda78c_c.jpg
Danny D. wrote:
> John Paquay wrote, on Thu, 30 Oct 2014 04:51:58 -0400:
>
>> My knee jerk reaction to the original posting in this thread was not
>> "What's wrong with these kids?", but rather, "What's wrong with this
>> teacher?"
>
> She's brand new to teaching, but, it turns out that classroom
> management is a standard problem in these multi-ethnic San Jose
> schools.
>
Well - that's a big part of your problem. Rather than teaching kids things,
parents and teachers rally around excuses for what the things exist. I wish
you the best - deal with the problems you are creating.
> One teacher uses a bathroom plunger, as his bathroom pass.
Brilliant! Shear stupidity - so why shouldn't everyone else follow suit?
>
>> To me, the whole idea of using some (any) ginormous item as a hall
>> pass is stupid, demeaning, and completely counterproductive... not to
>> mention, an exercise in futility. What does this really accomplish?
>
> What it (attempts to) accomplish is the reduce undue interruptions of
> the classroom environment.
>
Brain dead thinking. But that's fine - do that kind of thinking where you
live. What in the hell do you really think you are solving with this kind
of approach?
> We all know that the kids can go to the bathroom plenty of other
> times, but, all kids will take advantage of a "free pass" out of
> jail, if
> even for only 10 minutes (which they can synchronize with other
> friends, if they're clever).
You just keep on letting those kids outsmart you. I'm sure you'll win that
way...
>
> What the pass does, first and foremost, is it discourages such
> intents.
Bullshit! Are you and the teachers at that school that stupid as to really
believe this? If so - muck in your own mire.
> Also, it allows the teacher to continue teaching,
> uninterrupted, as
> the students just get up, grab the pass, and return, unannounced.
Really? Do you even think about the things like this that you post?
>
> It also is very clear to everyone, what the purpose of the kid is,
> whether grabbing the pass or walking the hallways. It's also not
> something they can leave hidden in the hallway while they
> surreptitiously run a'muck about the hallways or outdoors to catch a
> smoke or whatever.
Dear Parent...
>
> Likewise, it prevents multiple kids (from the same classroom anyway)
> leaving the room at any one time.
Really? The high paid teacher is this dumb as to not be aware of this
syndrome? Really?
>
> Furthermore, it's obvious to all whether the bathroom pass is in use
> or not. It's like the red sign on an airplane bathroom door showing
> it's in use, rather than what we have to do at a McDonalds, which is
> to jiggle the doorknob repeatedly to find out if someone is in there.
Yeah - when I was a kid I had a really hard time understanding a locked
door - are you really this stupid? How about facilities that accomodate 4
kids at once - where does that fit into your foolish thinking?
>
> And, being so large (on purpose), the kids, who almost certainly don't
> like it, can't lose it easily.
Oh man - that just can't be anymore stupid.
>
> At the very least, it's objectionable to carry (as you noted), which
> would further discourage the unnecessary potty breaks.
Really? What in the hell is the problem you are looking to solve? I think
you have a California mindset which just does not think at all.
>
> Rest assured, this teacher has at least one kid a day out of her 200,
> walk out on the class without excuse.
Really? Then fire the teacher. That is her or his responsibility to make
sure that kind of thing does not happen. Screw the 200 number - that's a
classic over-exageration - how many students in any one class session? The
total number is completely meaningless.
> She has kids banging on the
> table, and calling her a b*ch, and plenty of disciplinary problems,
> all of which are common through all the classes, as she told me most
> of these kids are being weeded out of the system through their
> behavior in *all* their classes.
Guess you guys need to improve your school disciplines and forget looking at
magic tokens like stupid wood fobs for a key to the boys room. Do you
really belive that is going to fix the problems you guys have created in
your schools? Really? Are you really that dumb?
>
> I also find this behavior strange, as *my* kids have always had
> comments on their report cards of "very polite", "always helpful",
> "pitches in to volunteer every time I ask", and even once "raises
> hand to answer questions too often!".
Good for you! That's what is necessary - not stupid fobs.
>
> I think this teacher, who is brand new, is learning on the job. In
> California, they go through 3 semesters of graduate training, to
> obtain a preliminary teaching certificate, two semesters of which
> have on-the-job training of sorts.
>
Kudos to you for trying to help a new teacher but don't you see that the
problem is so much bigger than that?
> Then, they're thrown to the wolves for 2 more years, until they get
> their preliminary teaching certificate cleared. At that point, they
> also get tenure (which is kind'a soon, if you ask me), and then
> they're bona-fide teachers.
Well - you might want to take the problem up with your school district. You
guys created the problem and stupid ideas like wooden fobs is not going to
fix that problem.
>
> The clearance process, apparently, starts with three weeks of
> training on "classroom management", which I found odd when I saw that
> it's the *first* thing they re-train the preliminary-credentialed
> teachers on.
Oh well...
>
> You have to remember these are Algebra classes, where probably only a
> small percentage of the kids (maybe 1/3?) actually care to learn it.
> It's a required class for the rest, which they hope to never see
> again during the rest of their lives.
We have to remember? Really? Are you that stupid? They are in school.
They are there to learn what they are told to be taught. We have to
remember? I see the very root of this problem...
>
> When is the last time you or I graphed a quadratic equation, for
> example? Could each of us solve a binomial equation to save our lives?
> (Building suspension bridges in the redwoods notwithstanding... :)
Competely irrelevent! We did do it when we were in school. What does it
matter at all when the last time was that we did it. I'll tell you that I
have used that knowledge throughout my life - though it may not have been on
a daily basis - but when I needed it, I could call on it. You are making
excuses for dumbing down our already stupid kids even more?
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Bill wrote:
> Danny D. wrote:
>> John Paquay wrote, on Thu, 30 Oct 2014 04:51:58 -0400:
>>
>>> My knee jerk reaction to the original posting in this thread was not
>>> "What's wrong with these kids?", but rather, "What's wrong with this
>>> teacher?"
>> She's brand new to teaching, but, it turns out that classroom management
>> is a standard problem in these multi-ethnic San Jose schools.
>>
>> One teacher uses a bathroom plunger, as his bathroom pass.
>>
>>> To me, the whole idea of using some (any) ginormous item as a hall pass
>>> is stupid, demeaning, and completely counterproductive... not to
>>> mention, an exercise in futility. What does this really accomplish?
>> What it (attempts to) accomplish is the reduce undue interruptions of
>> the classroom environment.
>>
>> We all know that the kids can go to the bathroom plenty of other times,
>> but, all kids will take advantage of a "free pass" out of jail, if
>> even for only 10 minutes (which they can synchronize with other friends,
>> if they're clever).
>>
>> What the pass does, first and foremost, is it discourages such intents.
>> Also, it allows the teacher to continue teaching, uninterrupted, as
>> the students just get up, grab the pass, and return, unannounced.
>>
>> It also is very clear to everyone, what the purpose of the kid is,
>> whether grabbing the pass or walking the hallways. It's also not
>> something they can leave hidden in the hallway while they
>> surreptitiously
>> run a'muck about the hallways or outdoors to catch a smoke or whatever.
>>
>> Likewise, it prevents multiple kids (from the same classroom anyway)
>> leaving the room at any one time.
>>
>> Furthermore, it's obvious to all whether the bathroom pass is in use or
>> not. It's like the red sign on an airplane bathroom door showing it's in
>> use, rather than what we have to do at a McDonalds, which is to jiggle
>> the doorknob repeatedly to find out if someone is in there.
>>
>> And, being so large (on purpose), the kids, who almost certainly don't
>> like it, can't lose it easily.
>>
>> At the very least, it's objectionable to carry (as you noted), which
>> would further discourage the unnecessary potty breaks.
>>
>> Rest assured, this teacher has at least one kid a day out of her 200,
>> walk out on the class without excuse. She has kids banging on the table,
>> and calling her a b*ch, and plenty of disciplinary problems, all of
>> which
>> are common through all the classes, as she told me most of these kids
>> are
>> being weeded out of the system through their behavior in *all* their
>> classes.
>>
>> I also find this behavior strange, as *my* kids have always had comments
>> on their report cards of "very polite", "always helpful", "pitches in to
>> volunteer every time I ask", and even once "raises hand to answer
>> questions too often!".
>>
>> Heh heh ... the apple doesn't fall far from the tree ...
>>
>>> The good old days were certainly different, but they weren't
>>> necessarily
>>> always that good. Still, if this is how our educators are now treating
>>> our kids, what should we expect from the kids?
>> I think this teacher, who is brand new, is learning on the job. In
>> California, they go through 3 semesters of graduate training, to
>> obtain a
>> preliminary teaching certificate, two semesters of which have on-the-job
>> training of sorts.
>>
>> Then, they're thrown to the wolves for 2 more years, until they get
>> their
>> preliminary teaching certificate cleared. At that point, they also get
>> tenure (which is kind'a soon, if you ask me), and then they're bona-fide
>> teachers.
>>
>> The clearance process, apparently, starts with three weeks of
>> training on
>> "classroom management", which I found odd when I saw that it's the
>> *first* thing they re-train the preliminary-credentialed teachers on.
>>
>>> I'm afraid she needs a kind of help that can't be found in a wood shop.
>>> Clearly she is in the wrong profession, and a big chunk of wood is not
>>> going to change that. Foolishness, yes. But it makes me a little sad
>>> for
>>> the kids.
>> Out of 200 kids that she has, she estimated, to me, that about 10% are
>> the ones using the bathroom pass constantly. The rest sit and listen.
>>
>> You have to remember these are Algebra classes, where probably only a
>> small percentage of the kids (maybe 1/3?) actually care to learn it.
>> It's
>> a required class for the rest, which they hope to never see again during
>> the rest of their lives.
>>
>> When is the last time you or I graphed a quadratic equation, for
>> example?
>> Could each of us solve a binomial equation to save our lives?
> You graph a quadratic function, and solve a quadratic
> equation. I use the binomial formula almost everyday.
> How about the Gamma function? Bring it on! ; )
>
Here's a nice problem (an example of a "Galton-Watson" process).
Start with 1 thing "alive" at generation 0.
Assume it has a 25% chance of dying, a 50% chance of living, and a 25%
chance of doubling after each generation.
Assume this is true of all such "things". What is the probability that
there will be exactly 1 thing alive after 2 generations?
I believe that a great solution technique to problems like this has been
(re-)discovered numerous times.
Hint: If the question is changed to What is the probability that there
will be exactly k things alive after n generations?
The answer is the same as the value of the coefficient on x^k of the
function f(x)=(1/4 + 1/2 x + 1/4 x^2) composed with itself n times.
That this is true I find pretty darn amazing. And it follows from the
Binomial formula, which you brought up.
The books I've seen leave the reader to figure that out for themselves,
so I won't take the fun out of it.
Suggestion: Start with a "probability tree".
>
>> (Building suspension bridges in the redwoods notwithstanding... :)
>> https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7532/15647694115_c6aaeda78c_c.jpg
>
On 10/30/2014 6:40 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
> On 10/30/2014 1:54 PM, Edward R. Rooney wrote:
>> On 10/30/2014 01:19 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> The kids in the San Jose school district ruined the Bathroom Pass!
>>>
>>
>> Spare the rod - spoil the child.
>> If you don't believe it, look at the mess we got now.
>>
> In the Bible days, the rod was used to
> nudge sheep back into the flock. Not to
> beat the sheep.
>
You can spank children and not beat them. If you had ever had children
you would know that sometime a pop on the bottom is the only way to get
their attention. Discipline must be consistently applied, and ALL
people in a position to give discipline, must work to basically the same
standard. ie per Theodore_Roosevelt "Speak softly and carry a big stick"
Though children quickly understand that grandpa has slightly different
standards of performance than dad. The same applies in all situations
the child is place. They are intelligent creature, understand the
environment, and what is permissibly in that environment. Otherwise,
you would not get the Alien Abduction Syndrome when you let your kids go
with someone else. (Alien Abduction Syndrome: The child who has been a
terror all afternoon, but later when when a friend's mom returns him,
she tells what a perfect child you have)
The problem comes about when you have a parent that thinks the the
teacher, the police, and every one else in the world are out to get
them. So they think that whenever anything happens to THEIR child,
someone is discriminating against or picking on THEIR child.
knuttle wrote, on Thu, 30 Oct 2014 19:24:10 -0400:
> (Alien Abduction Syndrome: The child who has been a terror all
> afternoon, but later when when a friend's mom returns him, she tells
> what a perfect child you have)
I was wondering why all the teachers commented that my kids
were wonderful to know in class.
I had wondered if they had mine mixed up with someone elses'.
Now I know what happened.
The aliens did it!
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>
> The local high school has a single person restroom in each classroom.
> Problem, solved.
How are ya supposed to grab a quick cigarette without getting caught that
way?
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On 10/31/14, 6:14 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>
>>
>> The local high school has a single person restroom in each classroom.
>> Problem, solved.
>
> How are ya supposed to grab a quick cigarette without getting caught that
> way?
>
Just holler to the teacher to turn on the ventilator because you just
stunk up the bathroom.
On 10/30/14, 10:49 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> When I was a kid, the only classrooms with bathrooms were kindergarten
> classrooms. I guess it does make sense that they all would now.
When I was a kid, schools didn't have bathrooms. At home, my mother
made us bathe every week.
Stormin Mormon wrote, on Fri, 31 Oct 2014 08:52:10 -0400:
> CA is noted for the liberal left leaning culture.
> Very possible the entire school system is run on self esteem, and
> fragile feelings, instead of old fashioned tried and true.
Does anyone here have high school kids?
Would you ask *them* what they use for a bathroom pass?
I'd be interested in the results.
On 10/31/14, 7:01 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 16:19:25 -0400, J Burns <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On 10/30/14, 10:49 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> When I was a kid, the only classrooms with bathrooms were kindergarten
>>> classrooms. I guess it does make sense that they all would now.
>>
>> When I was a kid, schools didn't have bathrooms. At home, my mother
>> made us bathe every week.
>
> OK, Abe. ;-)
>
Now I remember. Starting around 7th grade, my schools did have
bathrooms. No tubs, just communal showers. It was compulsory to bathe
together twice a week.
Bill wrote:
> Here's a nice problem (an example of a "Galton-Watson" process). Start
> with 1 thing "alive" at generation 0.
> Assume it has a 25% chance of dying, a 50% chance of living, and a 25%
> chance of doubling after each generation.
> Assume this is true of all such "things". What is the probability
> that there will be exactly 1 thing alive after 2 generations?
>
> I believe that a great solution technique to problems like this has
> been (re-)discovered numerous times.
> Hint: If the question is changed to What is the probability that there
> will be exactly k things alive after n generations?
> The answer is the same as the value of the coefficient on x^k of the
> function f(x)=(1/4 + 1/2 x + 1/4 x^2) composed with itself n times.
> That this is true I find pretty darn amazing. And it follows from the
> Binomial formula, which you brought up.
> The books I've seen leave the reader to figure that out for
> themselves, so I won't take the fun out of it.
> Suggestion: Start with a "probability tree".
>
You can probably see how to use this idea to help estimate the
distribution of the population of trees n years from now, if you plant a
new one today.
Of course, there are "overcrowding" issues, but you may be okay for
small values of n. So it is on topic. ; )
Any answers for the question given? I've been working on a related one
all afternoon so it is fresh in my mind.
Ed Pawlowski wrote, on Sat, 01 Nov 2014 15:40:17 -0400:
> Perfect opportunity for a pervert teacher, coach, or principle to get
> his jollies.
When I wrestled, in high school, the coach taught us how to cheat on the
initial doctor's appointment (by not eating for days beforehand), so that
we could then lose even more weight than we were supposed to, and the
coach provided a list of the "bath houses" where we could go to in order
to take a 'sauna' with a full set of rubber clothes that the coach
supplied.
So, we'd exercise in this bath-house sauna, little knowing (heck, we were
only freshmen and sophomores in high school), that the bathhouses are
*filled* to the brim with gay old men.
When they started asking me to take off my sweatshirt and rubberized
gear, as I exercised in the sauna, another guy, I remember it clearly,
told the first guy to shut the heck up and leave me alone. I was
befuddled why these guys wanted me to take off my gear, as the whole
point was to sweat to lose weight (whether for the doctor's assessment or
for the match itself).
I only learned later what those encounters were all about.
Jeezus. And they say the sports environment today is all about cheating.
That was cheating, and, now that I had kids, I NEVER let them believe in
a coach like that (mine, an ex marine, told me "I'm your mother, your
father, and Jesus Christ ... and ... somehow ... I trusted him).
Kids are stupid. I was a kid. I was stupid.
J Burns wrote, on Sat, 01 Nov 2014 18:11:42 -0400:
> We didn't take our gym clothes home to wash, not even socks
I almost never had to go to gym, because I was on sports year round.
So, I missed that experience.
However, if you've ever *smelled* the varsity locker room, you'll know
the meaning of "gym socks" all too well!
On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 16:13:33 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Bill wrote:
>
>> Mike, I think that you may be overlooking the fact that the kids you
>> and I went to school with are not the same as the kids of today, at
>> least not the dilemma varies by school district, I think.
>> This sort of reminds me of something a previous boss of mine use to
>> say: "When you're up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to
>> remember that your original intention was to drain the swamp!" : )
That's only half of the saying we were taught in college. It was
called the "Engineer's Creed: The engineer designs the best possible
product, on the specified schedule, at the lowest possible cost
but..."
>
>I don't agree Bill. I don't think the kids are all that different. The
>parents and the teachers are a lot different - don't want to hurt the self
>esteem of kids, and all that crap. Kids though are still kids. They will
>do what they can get away with just like they always have. Today they can
>get away with more because adults are not adults these days. Teachers
>pamaper kids and parents don't parent. Both are afraid to do anything that
>might offend the brat. Too much psychology involved in dealing with kids
>today.
+1
When I was in school, the father of family with the most screwed up
kids (one committed suicide, IIRC) was a child psychologist. The
goofy bastard tried to run me over once.
josephkk wrote:
>
> Mikw Marlow:
> If you are so wise let's hear your solutions to each case where you
> kvetched. There are several, let's hear what you would have the
> teacher/school do.
>
No need. If one cannot come up with anything more appropriate than a
bathroom plunger for a hall pass, then the same person would not understand
any higher level of thinking. Just let them go on with their foolishness.
BTW - learn how to trim a post instead of re-posting a ton of lines with
your own comment inserted within the first few lines.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 08:19:38 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<[email protected]> wrote:
>But, they are kids, after all, and so, I hope that by the end of the
>year, I'll have a system (titanium perhaps?) that they can't deface!
8" Ball and Chain
- Made of Metal with an Iron Chain
- Ball Is about 8" in Diameter
- Chain Is about 26" Long - Shackle Is about 3.5" Wide
<https://tinyurl.com/naeexp4>
But get a "real" one :)
--
Somtimes you just have a bad day at the dungeon
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 08:52:10 -0400, Stormin Mormon =
<[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 10/30/2014 10:25 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>>
>> Stormin Mormon wrote:
>>> I've suspected since the beginning that the
>>> bathroom pass is just a bandaid on a larger
>>> problem. This supports my guess.
>>
>>
>> Parents dumping defective kids on the school system.
>
>CA is noted for the liberal left leaning culture.
>Very possible the entire school system is run on
>self esteem, and fragile feelings, instead of old
>fashioned tried and true.
>
>-
It largely is/was since the 1970s. I saw it, i was there. About mid =
2001
decade the parental rebellion about no schools for performance started to
get results. So far only tokenism such as charter schools. Real reform
won't happen until the teachers unions are broken. Which requires a
society of responsibility for your actions. Not something to hold your
breath for.
?-)
=20
On Mon, 3 Nov 2014 23:15:45 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>josephkk wrote:
>
>>
>> Mikw Marlow:
>> If you are so wise let's hear your solutions to each case where you
>> kvetched. There are several, let's hear what you would have the
>> teacher/school do.
>>
>
>No need. If one cannot come up with anything more appropriate than a=20
>bathroom plunger for a hall pass, then the same person would not =
understand=20
>any higher level of thinking. Just let them go on with their =
foolishness.
>
>BTW - learn how to trim a post instead of re-posting a ton of lines with=
=20
>your own comment inserted within the first few lines.
I post to suit me.
?-)
=20
On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 18:32:38 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>When I was in school, the father of family with the most screwed up
>kids (one committed suicide, IIRC) was a child psychologist. The
>goofy bastard tried to run me over once.
Hey, you can't fault him for that. I'd have tried to run you over too.
:)
On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 08:09:39 -0400, Stormin Mormon
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On 10/27/2014 5:44 AM, Shadow wrote:
>> On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 03:05:09 -0400, Stormin Mormon
>>> Have the teacher example dat ass every time it comes
>>> back, and if there are any letters missing, apply
>>> the board of education to the seat of wisdom.
>>>
>>
>> Oddly enough, I agree with the Storming guy this time. A
>> school is supposed to teach children so they become responsible
>> adults. It's not an assault class where the medal goes to the one
>> that breaks the most "laws".
>> New pass. Anyone altering it in even the tiniest way gets
>> punished. No exceptions.
>> []'s
>
>Sigh. Your reputation is forever destroyed,
>having agreed with a religious whack job
>right winger dinger. You'd better vote twice
>in the election, to begin to repair the
>damage.
>
>Resurrect Reagan!
>
OMG, what have I done ....
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 16:19:25 -0400, J Burns <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 10/30/14, 10:49 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> When I was a kid, the only classrooms with bathrooms were kindergarten
>> classrooms. I guess it does make sense that they all would now.
>
>When I was a kid, schools didn't have bathrooms. At home, my mother
>made us bathe every week.
OK, Abe. ;-)
On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 03:05:09 -0400, Stormin Mormon
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On 10/27/2014 2:21 AM, Danny D. wrote:
>> The kids in the San Jose school district ruined the Bathroom Pass!
>> https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3950/15018893163_fa337967da_b.jpg
>>
>> They scraped off the paint to turn it into "DAT ASS". :)
>> https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5604/15452940608_f210c427bb_b.jpg
>>
>> I won't even snap a picture of what they wrote on the backside.
>Have the teacher example dat ass every time it comes
>back, and if there are any letters missing, apply
>the board of education to the seat of wisdom.
>
Oddly enough, I agree with the Storming guy this time. A
school is supposed to teach children so they become responsible
adults. It's not an assault class where the medal goes to the one
that breaks the most "laws".
New pass. Anyone altering it in even the tiniest way gets
punished. No exceptions.
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012
On 10/27/2014 4:19 AM, Danny D. wrote:
> Stormin Mormon wrote, on Mon, 27 Oct 2014 03:05:09 -0400:
>
>> Have the teacher example dat ass every time it comes
>> back, and if there are any letters missing, apply
>> the board of education to the seat of wisdom.
>
> It's funny, but, apparently the teacher didn't want to tell me
> that the spray-painted letters didn't last a week at the school.
>
> She thought I would be upset.
>
> I took it as a challenge, to see if I could keep a bunch of
> high-school hoodlums at bay. You can't defeat them, but, you can
> make it hard for them.
>
> So, with the letters now deeply routered (is that a verb?), and
> the knife marks in the back sanded out, and the back painted black
> so that the gang graffiti is covered, I think I just made it
> a bit harder for them to vandalize it.
> https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3950/15018893163_fa337967da_b.jpg
>
> Of course, the teacher told me they unscrewed her desk and hid it
> two classes down the hall, so, they're formidable opponents.
>
> But, they are kids, after all, and so, I hope that by the end of the
> year, I'll have a system (titanium perhaps?) that they can't deface!
>
> :)
>
Ideally, the kids are supposed to be learning obedience
to law, and some other things like that. If they are
defacing the potty pass, maybe they can hold it till
class is over? Are these illegal non citizens who started
their visit to our country by violating the border laws?
I'm not encouraged when our border agencies permit such
incredible disrespect for law.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/10/25/suspect-in-killing-of-two-california-sheriffs-deputies-was-twice-deported-to-mexico/
-
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
On 10/30/2014 12:20 PM, Danny D. wrote:
> She has kids banging on the table,
> and calling her a b*ch, and plenty of disciplinary problems, all of which
> are common through all the classes, as she told me most of these kids are
> being weeded out of the system through their behavior in *all* their
> classes.
>
I've suspected since the beginning that the
bathroom pass is just a bandaid on a larger
problem. This supports my guess.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.