While reading about stipple, for the sake of installing my 11
fluorescent fixtures, the asbestos issue arose...
I was just planning to knock down the stipple with a putty knife and
screw my lights and EMT conduit up.
House built in '72, has "stipple" ceilings in every room
including the garage. The stipple in the garage looks a little thicker
than the stuff in the rest of the house. I don't really know the
house's history. Did they used to stipple newly built houses? Based
upon looking at my closet which is neither smoothe nor stippled, I'm
guessing the answer is maybe! I read that they stopped allowing
asbestos in "ceiling compounds" in 1977.
Now I'm concerned as to whether (and how) I need to do an asbestos test
on the ceiling material or whether I need to do anything differently.
For instance, I could paint where I knock the stipple down, but that's
not what I had planned. I found names of couple companies in
Indianapolis that perform such tests, but I'm not exactly sure how to
proceed. I am considering sampling the garage and the rest of the house
in 2 separate samples, just so I know. Your advice is welcome!
Bill
Bill wrote:
> While reading about stipple, for the sake of installing my 11
> fluorescent fixtures, the asbestos issue arose...
>
> I was just planning to knock down the stipple with a putty knife and
> screw my lights and EMT conduit up.
>
> House built in '72, has "stipple" ceilings in every room
> including the garage. The stipple in the garage looks a little
> thicker than the stuff in the rest of the house. I don't really know
> the house's history. Did they used to stipple newly built houses?
> Based upon looking at my closet which is neither smoothe nor
> stippled, I'm guessing the answer is maybe! I read that they stopped
> allowing asbestos in "ceiling compounds" in 1977.
>
> Now I'm concerned as to whether (and how) I need to do an asbestos
> test on the ceiling material or whether I need to do anything
> differently. For instance, I could paint where I knock the stipple
> down, but that's not what I had planned. I found names of couple
> companies in Indianapolis that perform such tests, but I'm not
> exactly sure how to proceed. I am considering sampling the garage
> and the rest of the house in 2 separate samples, just so I know. Your
> advice is welcome!
Point #1:
DO NOT TEST. If positive, you are required to disclose to any prospective
buyer that your house was contaminated with a toxic chemical.
That you did not know, nor should have known, is an affirmative defense.
Point #2
Commercial products containing asbestos are not known to be hazardous. In
your case, asbestos is a superb fire retardant. Leave it alone.
On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 12:22:14 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 05:07:37 -0400, Bill<[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> While reading about stipple, for the sake of installing my 11
>>> fluorescent fixtures, the asbestos issue arose...
>>>
>>> I was just planning to knock down the stipple with a putty knife and
>>> screw my lights and EMT conduit up.
>>
>> Do yourself a favor. Drape plastic on the floor, moisten the popcorn
>> with a fine mist, and watch it drop off. Put it in your trashcan and
>> be done with it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74rr71tZN8U
>
>Wow, that was a much better video than I expected!
>This one is pretty good too!
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWmmjPhC5R4&NR=1&feature=fvwp
They took down the plastic too soon. (see below)
>Since the ceiling compounds gave the finishers an easy way out, I would
>anticipate that some extra drywall work will be required. Nothing like
>working on the ceiling, huh? : )
Yeah, one of my favorite things to do. Kinda like shoveling gravel.
But after the scraping (and allowing it to dry thoroughly) all you
really need to do is sand the entire ceiling. That doesn't take all
that long with an extension pole, so figure an hour for that. Now
texture it (Eek! Hire that out.) paint it, and put up those light
fixtures. All done by Christmas!
--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus
On Thu, 4 Aug 2011 00:57:51 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Eric wrote:
>
>>
>> Be sure and be safe!
>
>Or... simply quit being an alarmist and follow the published guidelines for
>homeowners. It's really pretty clear.
Right. Clear and basic.
Wear a respirator when you create any kind of dust in the air.
--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus
In article <[email protected]>,
Eric <[email protected]> wrote:
> I guess you would realize the seriousness of asbestos.
> It's a miserable, long, death.
So is death due to COPD, caused by smoking.
(I watched my father slowly dying from this over several years and it
wasn't very nice)
> Handle appropriately with the room sealed off and only negative
> ventilation and **proper** breathing apparatus, not a dust mask.
Don't perform any operation that might cause fine dust. Ordinary dust
masks are pretty useless for /any/ job anyway - and that includes
woodworking.
Many people have been exposed to asbestos in their lives without it
causing any issues. Loads of it used to be around domestic premises. We
used to use asbestos string to seal car exhaust systems and made
"temporary" repairs with an asbestos paste. We blew the asbestos dust out
of brake drums and built our sheds and garages with asbestos sheet.
The "Prefabs", pre-fabricated homes built after WWII to provide
"temporary" (most were around for upwards of 30 years) housing in the UK,
were made of the stuff as were the pads on ironing boards.
Yes, it is dangerous but it is only those who used it as part of their
employment who suffered the consequences. Very short-term exposure with
sensible precautions should cause you no problems.
--
Stuart Winsor
In article <[email protected]>,
Eric <[email protected]> wrote:
> Suggesting somebody ignore the cautions and procedures is an ignorant,
> careless and immature comment. The well established danger is not even
> up for debate anymore.
I'm not suggesting for one moment that risks be ignored, just that they be
put in perspective.
Note my comment:
"Don't perform any operation that might cause fine dust".
> "just working in a room with dust from boilers in need of repair."
*** JUST? ***
For /how/ many weeks in the summer?
--
Stuart Winsor
On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 18:37:28 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>> Uh, Bill. If you leave the popcorn up there and do any finishing
>> whatsoever in your shop, you -will- get popcorn droppings in it.
>> Murphy backs that thought 100%.
>
>
>I believe you and, since you showed me just how easy it can be, I can't
>rule it out. I am just, unfortunately, unable to add it to this year's
>schedule. : (
Bill, it'll take you half a day at best, and I guarantee that if you
-don't- do it before you hang those lights, it will never get done.
BTDT, got the t-shirt.
>Now, if you lived closer, I'll be we could zip through some of these
>tasks like they was nothin'!
I'd say "Send a plane ticket" but I don't feel like getting goosed
right now.
--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus
On Sun, 07 Aug 2011 22:58:54 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Morgans wrote:
>> "Bill" wrote
>> I bought the pipe cutting unit linked to above yesterday. Hmmm 26.99 to
>> cut 40 spacers--maybe I should take it back. I'll see how long it takes
>> me to cut the EMT with a hack saw first! : )
>>
>> By the way, what is a good choice of caulk that would make a good choice
>> for the used already described? It's occured to me that it shouldn't be
>> heat sensitive (produce dangerous fumes when warmed) or be flammable.
>>
>> Larry, I had nightmares about the stipple getting in my finishing last
>> night!! : )
Chaos, panic, disorder...my work here is done. ;)
>> If you are not going to run wires through the spacers (which you will
>> not be doing) it is fine to cut it with a pipe cutter. The problem
>> cutting EMT with a pipe cutter is that it crushes it as it cuts it,
>> leaving a sharp edge, and when you ream it, it just gets sharper. If you
>> run wires though it, there is a very good chance that some wires will
>> get their insulations cut, and cause a short.
>
>Yes, I understood that from your last post to Larry.
Yes, and I plonked him for his idiotic assumptions.
>I appreciate your pointing it out. Hack saw and a round file, huh?
A pipe cutter will tend to leave a sharp edge, but ther reamer pushes
it out beyond the lip of the connector it slides into, protecting all
wiring from any sharp edges. The Noaf Kay-lina boy must not even be
_using_ connectors if his wires get cut. Or he's just careless with
the reamer. Yes, a round or rattail halfround file will work with a
hacksaw, too, but you have a lot more cleanup if you do that, both in
the pipe and on the shop floor. Saw shavings left in the emt will
chafe wiring, too, if they're not too busy finding their way into your
fingertips. ;)
--
We are always the same age inside.
-- Gertrude Stein
On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 12:37:55 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Morgans wrote:
>
>> I am not sure why you are making this complicated, like you are-and have
>> done on other projects.
>>
>> Step one- use a 3/4" roller, and paint the whole ceiling with white
>> stain blocker paint. I suggest this step, because after I sprayed
>> popcorn on my older house ceiling, brown stains bled through any place
>> there was not joint compound under the paint. You will do the whole
>> ceiling just as fast as painting only under the location of the lights
>> as you are suggesting. The fresh white will reflect more light and be a
>> fresh new look for your old ceiling.
>>
>> Step two- put up your lights and conduit. If you are worried about the
>> ceiling stipple breaking loose, put a little caulk on the part you are
>> screwing to the ceiling. It will make a flat base for what you are
>> putting up, and keep the possible asbestos from breaking free. Don't
>> need to scrape any place, this way. Do not finish tightening the screws
>> until the caulk dries, if it is not level enough for you when you
>> tighten it all the way first.
>>
>
>> I would strongly advise that you cut some 1/2" to 3/4" pieces of conduit
>> to act as standoffs, to hold the light off the ceiling. Put the spacers
>> up and run the screw through the light then the spacers, and the light
>> will be much cooler, and last longer, and eliminate the possibility of
>> the light overheating and cutting off. This will also make it easy so
>> the light will only have a few points of contact of the spacers against
>> the ceiling. This is an (old school) trick. You can use a pipe cutter
>> for making spacers easy. Just don't use a pipe cutter for cutting the
>> emt conduit, because of the sharp edge a pipe cutter will leave on the
>> inside.
Jim, most pipe cutters have a reamer/deburrer attached to them so the
lip can be rendered harmless. http://goo.gl/uDeux 1 pic = 1k words.
>Your idea impressed me even more since I sent my last message. I make
>spacers out of 1/2" EMT and use them to separate the fixtures from the
>underlying wallboard (duh)... I presume they will slice neatly through
>the stipple...
>
>Now, I also understand also how you suggest to use the caulk...beautiful.
>
>You surely saved me much time and unnecessary aggravation!
Uh, Bill. If you leave the popcorn up there and do any finishing
whatsoever in your shop, you -will- get popcorn droppings in it.
Murphy backs that thought 100%.
--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus
"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> While reading about stipple, for the sake of installing my 11 fluorescent
> fixtures, the asbestos issue arose...
>
> I was just planning to knock down the stipple with a putty knife and screw
> my lights and EMT conduit up.
That works. Dampen it first if you want to keep dust down.
>
> House built in '72, has "stipple" ceilings in every room
> including the garage. The stipple in the garage looks a little thicker
> than the stuff in the rest of the house. I don't really know the house's
> history. Did they used to stipple newly built houses?
Yes, it was very popular about that time.
>
> Now I'm concerned as to whether (and how) I need to do an asbestos test on
> the ceiling material or whether I need to do anything differently.
In my house, we got rid of that crap before the asbestos scare stuff
started. Wipe it down with water that has a few drops of detergent in it.
They when it softens a bit, just scrape it off. Messy, but works. The
ceilings look a lot better now.
Asbestos is only a problem when in dust form and you breath it. It is in
miniscule amounts in the ceilings. It can be disposed of in a bag in the
landfill. If you have it tested and have a pro do the job, you are looking
at thousands of dollars.
In the garage, I'd probably just get rid of where the lights are and leave
the rest.
> For instance, I could paint where I knock the stipple down, but that's not
> what I had planned. I found names of couple companies in Indianapolis
> that perform such tests, but I'm not exactly sure how to proceed. I am
> considering sampling the garage and the rest of the house in 2 separate
> samples, just so I know. Your advice is welcome!
I'd not do any testing, I'd just get rid of it. Scraped while damp is save
enough. If it is gone, there will be no disclosure issues down the road.
People panic over stuff like that, for no good reason. If it is painted
over, any asbestos is considered encapsulated and safe.
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
>
> "willshak" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> The question is, what would Eric do?
> 1. Heed the advise about wetting and scraping?
> 2. Call in the EPA and spend thousands of $$$ to remove it?
>
> I was a metalsmith in the US Navy in the late 1950s.
> One of my jobs was to extend the heating and AC ducts in my 1948 built
> Heavy Cruiser.
> This required that I remove the asbestos covering on existent ducts to
> add more ductwork to other compartments.
> There was no asbestos scare at the time so there was no masks or
> protective clothing involved. The stuff was just cut off and scraped clean.
> After adding more ducts, I installed new asbestos covering to the new
> ductwork.
> I was in my late teens at the time.
> I also have been a smoker since then.
> I'm 73 now.
>
> -------
>
> I handled asbestos, as a kid on several occasions and never had any
> problems, either.
>
> Just because I have cross the road my whole life doesn't mean I should close
> my eyes 'cause nothing is going to happen.
>
> The stuff is dangerous and the results are terrible should you be one of the
> unlucky ones. The subject is not up for debate anymore.
That it's dangerous, no. That removing some stipple that may or may not
contain it from your own ceiling cannot be done safely without calling
in a hazmat team? That's a bit more debatable.
"Eric" <[email protected]> wrote
> I guess you would realize the seriousness of asbestos.
>
> It's a miserable, long, death. Handle appropriately with the room sealed
> off and only negative ventilation and **proper** breathing apparatus, not
> a dust mask.
>
> While I agree with the *alerting the process* and cost comments it would
> be nice to know the level of seriousness to get involved with.
>
> Best of luck.
It is well known that the ceiling coatings are not very hazardous and the
amount of asbestos is rather low. Wet and scrape. Wipe down with a wet
sponge after.
A couple of years ago, it was determined that a nearly 100 year old school
has asbestos on the ceilings. This became known after test results came in
during normal school hours. What to do? Have an emergency evacuation.
Same as you would do if the building was on fire.
No matter that in 100 years, no one ever had a problem, don't let the kids
finish out the day in those hazardous classrooms. EVACUATE ! EVACUATE !
EVACUATE !
The asbestos, of course, was well encapsulated under layers of paint. A
little knowledge and common sense goes a long way.
"Ed Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> A little knowledge and common sense goes a long way.
But, but, the lowliest janitor in the VA Hospital told me that common sense
was a misnomer, because it was so uncommon.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
Larry Jaques <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Caution: Should you truly feel the need to know whether or not it has
> that ghastlyhorriblenastyassevil "asbestos" stuff in it and discover
> that it -does-, your house will be marked by the PTBs, invaded by the
> EPA, and it will cost many thousands of dollars to have it removed by
> some poor souls who jumped through all the hoops and became licensed
> to deal with that ghastlyhorriblenastyassevil "asbestos" stuff. (Ditto
> lead.)
Perhaps the company was certified, but the poor non-English-speking Eastern
European "slaves" who did the asbestos removal in the Manhattan VA many
years back could have or were definitely contaminated.
DAMHIKT, and IANAL
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
Eric wrote the following:
>
>
> "Gerald Ross" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>> "Bill"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> While reading about stipple, for the sake of installing my 11
>>> fluorescent
>>> fixtures, the asbestos issue arose...
>>>
>>> I was just planning to knock down the stipple with a putty knife
>>> and screw
>>> my lights and EMT conduit up.
>>
>> That works. Dampen it first if you want to keep dust down.
>>
>>>
>>> House built in '72, has "stipple" ceilings in every room
>>> including the garage. The stipple in the garage looks a little
>>> thicker
>>> than the stuff in the rest of the house. I don't really know the
>>> house's
>>> history. Did they used to stipple newly built houses?
>>
>> Yes, it was very popular about that time.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Now I'm concerned as to whether (and how) I need to do an asbestos
>>> test on
>>> the ceiling material or whether I need to do anything differently.
>>
>> In my house, we got rid of that crap before the asbestos scare stuff
>> started. Wipe it down with water that has a few drops of detergent
>> in it.
>> They when it softens a bit, just scrape it off. Messy, but works. The
>> ceilings look a lot better now.
>>
>> Asbestos is only a problem when in dust form and you breath it. It
>> is in
>> miniscule amounts in the ceilings. It can be disposed of in a bag in
>> the
>> landfill. If you have it tested and have a pro do the job, you are
>> looking
>> at thousands of dollars.
>>
>> In the garage, I'd probably just get rid of where the lights are and
>> leave
>> the rest.
>>
>>
>>> For instance, I could paint where I knock the stipple down, but
>>> that's not
>>> what I had planned. I found names of couple companies in Indianapolis
>>> that perform such tests, but I'm not exactly sure how to proceed.
>>> I am
>>> considering sampling the garage and the rest of the house in 2
>>> separate
>>> samples, just so I know. Your advice is welcome!
>>
>> I'd not do any testing, I'd just get rid of it. Scraped while damp
>> is save
>> enough. If it is gone, there will be no disclosure issues down the
>> road.
>> People panic over stuff like that, for no good reason. If it is painted
>> over, any asbestos is considered encapsulated and safe.
>>
> I agree with Ed, and here's another reason. If you test and it is
> positive, then you have legal obligations that could come back and
> bite you--If you decide to remove it you are supposed to hire an
> expensive expert to do it. If you sell the house you are obligated to
> give full disclosure, and that may scare some people.
>
>
> ================
>
> I guess you would realize the seriousness of asbestos.
>
> It's a miserable, long, death. Handle appropriately with the room
> sealed off and only negative ventilation and **proper** breathing
> apparatus, not a dust mask.
>
> While I agree with the *alerting the process* and cost comments it
> would be nice to know the level of seriousness to get involved with.
>
> Best of luck.
>
> --
>
> Eric
The question is, what would Eric do?
1. Heed the advise about wetting and scraping?
2. Call in the EPA and spend thousands of $$$ to remove it?
I was a metalsmith in the US Navy in the late 1950s.
One of my jobs was to extend the heating and AC ducts in my 1948 built
Heavy Cruiser.
This required that I remove the asbestos covering on existent ducts to
add more ductwork to other compartments.
There was no asbestos scare at the time so there was no masks or
protective clothing involved. The stuff was just cut off and scraped clean.
After adding more ducts, I installed new asbestos covering to the new
ductwork.
I was in my late teens at the time.
I also have been a smoker since then.
I'm 73 now.
--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @
Eric wrote:
>
> Be sure and be safe!
Or... simply quit being an alarmist and follow the published guidelines for
homeowners. It's really pretty clear.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
We had a new 60 unit apartment building condemned, electrically, and made
the Electrician repipe the whole building after using a pipe cutter and
reaming out the burrs. There were still several places that ripped the
insulation off the wires. Not a fun job after most of the drywall was on.
I wouldn't even try it with a pipe cutter after that one. It was only a
small arc and we caught it in the testing stage.
Use a hacksaw and file or reamer.
-----------
"Bill" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
Yes, I understood that from your last post to Larry. I appreciate your
pointing it out. Hack saw and a round file, huh?
"Bill" wrote
Thank you Ed, and everyone else to who provided me with advise in
this thead! It is valuable to me now, and it will be in the future too!
By the way, if the stipple has a thin coat of paint on it does this
change the way you have to go about dampening it? That is, is a spray
bottle likely to go it? I presume with a bit of patience...
As far as my light fixtures, I plan to make an open ended box-shaped
template of the appropriate size. I can draw pencil lines, spray through
the box, clean up the openings, and paint 'em up. I'm sure it will be
great fun (lol)! ;) Actually, working in such a systematic fashion
will probably help me complete the job quicker.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not sure why you are making this complicated, like you are-and have
done on other projects.
Step one- use a 3/4" roller, and paint the whole ceiling with white stain
blocker paint. I suggest this step, because after I sprayed popcorn on my
older house ceiling, brown stains bled through any place there was not joint
compound under the paint. You will do the whole ceiling just as fast as
painting only under the location of the lights as you are suggesting. The
fresh white will reflect more light and be a fresh new look for your old
ceiling.
Step two- put up your lights and conduit. If you are worried about the
ceiling stipple breaking loose, put a little caulk on the part you are
screwing to the ceiling. It will make a flat base for what you are putting
up, and keep the possible asbestos from breaking free. Don't need to scrape
any place, this way. Do not finish tightening the screws until the caulk
dries, if it is not level enough for you when you tighten it all the way
first.
I would strongly advise that you cut some 1/2" to 3/4" pieces of conduit to
act as standoffs, to hold the light off the ceiling. Put the spacers up and
run the screw through the light then the spacers, and the light will be much
cooler, and last longer, and eliminate the possibility of the light
overheating and cutting off. This will also make it easy so the light will
only have a few points of contact of the spacers against the ceiling. This
is an (old school) trick. You can use a pipe cutter for making spacers
easy. Just don't use a pipe cutter for cutting the emt conduit, because of
the sharp edge a pipe cutter will leave on the inside.
-- Jim in NC
Dave wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 11:49:55 -0400, willshak <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> After adding more ducts, I installed new asbestos covering to the new
>> ductwork.
>> I was in my late teens at the time.
>> I also have been a smoker since then.
>> I'm 73 now.
>
> You know, this crap is the standard line I hear all the time. And,
> pisses me off. Perhaps you're one of the lucky ones. Or, maybe it just
> hasn't caught up with you yet. But, just once in your life consider
> the thousands who weren't so lucky. Obviously, you've never been close
> to someone dying of lung cancer, or malignant mesothelioma? Else, why
> would you spout such crap. Do you have any idea what kind of suffering
> they go through?
>
> I've had to watch helplessly as my father died of lung cancer, my
> mother die of colon cancer and a very close friend die of
> melanoma.They were terrible deaths and not something I'd wish on
> anyone, not even arrogant mouthpieces like you.
Dave - he's not responsible for those deaths.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> "Bill"<[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> While reading about stipple, for the sake of installing my 11 fluorescent
>> fixtures, the asbestos issue arose...
>>
>> I was just planning to knock down the stipple with a putty knife and screw
>> my lights and EMT conduit up.
>
> That works. Dampen it first if you want to keep dust down.
>
>>
>> House built in '72, has "stipple" ceilings in every room
>> including the garage. The stipple in the garage looks a little thicker
>> than the stuff in the rest of the house. I don't really know the house's
>> history. Did they used to stipple newly built houses?
>
> Yes, it was very popular about that time.
>
>
>>
>> Now I'm concerned as to whether (and how) I need to do an asbestos test on
>> the ceiling material or whether I need to do anything differently.
>
> In my house, we got rid of that crap before the asbestos scare stuff
> started. Wipe it down with water that has a few drops of detergent in it.
> They when it softens a bit, just scrape it off. Messy, but works. The
> ceilings look a lot better now.
>
> Asbestos is only a problem when in dust form and you breath it. It is in
> miniscule amounts in the ceilings. It can be disposed of in a bag in the
> landfill. If you have it tested and have a pro do the job, you are looking
> at thousands of dollars.
>
> In the garage, I'd probably just get rid of where the lights are and leave
> the rest.
>
>
>> For instance, I could paint where I knock the stipple down, but that's not
>> what I had planned. I found names of couple companies in Indianapolis
>> that perform such tests, but I'm not exactly sure how to proceed. I am
>> considering sampling the garage and the rest of the house in 2 separate
>> samples, just so I know. Your advice is welcome!
>
> I'd not do any testing, I'd just get rid of it. Scraped while damp is save
> enough. If it is gone, there will be no disclosure issues down the road.
> People panic over stuff like that, for no good reason. If it is painted
> over, any asbestos is considered encapsulated and safe.
>
I agree with Ed, and here's another reason. If you test and it is
positive, then you have legal obligations that could come back and
bite you--If you decide to remove it you are supposed to hire an
expensive expert to do it. If you sell the house you are obligated to
give full disclosure, and that may scare some people.
--
Gerald Ross
It doesn't *take* all kinds, we just
*have* all kinds.
On 8/2/2011 4:07 AM, Bill wrote:
> Now I'm concerned as to whether (and how) I need to do an asbestos test
> on the ceiling material or whether I need to do anything differently.
Simply don't sand it and you will be fine.
The advice that only an idiot would have it tested is operative.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Gerald Ross" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> "Bill"<[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> While reading about stipple, for the sake of installing my 11
>> fluorescent
>> fixtures, the asbestos issue arose...
>>
>> I was just planning to knock down the stipple with a putty knife and
>> screw
>> my lights and EMT conduit up.
>
> That works. Dampen it first if you want to keep dust down.
>
>>
>> House built in '72, has "stipple" ceilings in every room
>> including the garage. The stipple in the garage looks a little thicker
>> than the stuff in the rest of the house. I don't really know the
>> house's
>> history. Did they used to stipple newly built houses?
>
> Yes, it was very popular about that time.
>
>
>>
>> Now I'm concerned as to whether (and how) I need to do an asbestos test
>> on
>> the ceiling material or whether I need to do anything differently.
>
> In my house, we got rid of that crap before the asbestos scare stuff
> started. Wipe it down with water that has a few drops of detergent in it.
> They when it softens a bit, just scrape it off. Messy, but works. The
> ceilings look a lot better now.
>
> Asbestos is only a problem when in dust form and you breath it. It is in
> miniscule amounts in the ceilings. It can be disposed of in a bag in the
> landfill. If you have it tested and have a pro do the job, you are
> looking
> at thousands of dollars.
>
> In the garage, I'd probably just get rid of where the lights are and leave
> the rest.
>
>
>> For instance, I could paint where I knock the stipple down, but that's
>> not
>> what I had planned. I found names of couple companies in Indianapolis
>> that perform such tests, but I'm not exactly sure how to proceed. I am
>> considering sampling the garage and the rest of the house in 2 separate
>> samples, just so I know. Your advice is welcome!
>
> I'd not do any testing, I'd just get rid of it. Scraped while damp is
> save
> enough. If it is gone, there will be no disclosure issues down the road.
> People panic over stuff like that, for no good reason. If it is painted
> over, any asbestos is considered encapsulated and safe.
>
I agree with Ed, and here's another reason. If you test and it is
positive, then you have legal obligations that could come back and
bite you--If you decide to remove it you are supposed to hire an
expensive expert to do it. If you sell the house you are obligated to
give full disclosure, and that may scare some people.
================
I guess you would realize the seriousness of asbestos.
It's a miserable, long, death. Handle appropriately with the room sealed off
and only negative ventilation and **proper** breathing apparatus, not a dust
mask.
While I agree with the *alerting the process* and cost comments it would be
nice to know the level of seriousness to get involved with.
Best of luck.
--
Eric
"willshak" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
The question is, what would Eric do?
1. Heed the advise about wetting and scraping?
2. Call in the EPA and spend thousands of $$$ to remove it?
I was a metalsmith in the US Navy in the late 1950s.
One of my jobs was to extend the heating and AC ducts in my 1948 built
Heavy Cruiser.
This required that I remove the asbestos covering on existent ducts to
add more ductwork to other compartments.
There was no asbestos scare at the time so there was no masks or
protective clothing involved. The stuff was just cut off and scraped clean.
After adding more ducts, I installed new asbestos covering to the new
ductwork.
I was in my late teens at the time.
I also have been a smoker since then.
I'm 73 now.
-------
I handled asbestos, as a kid on several occasions and never had any
problems, either.
Just because I have cross the road my whole life doesn't mean I should close
my eyes 'cause nothing is going to happen.
The stuff is dangerous and the results are terrible should you be one of the
unlucky ones. The subject is not up for debate anymore.
--
Eric
"Stuart" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
So is death due to COPD, caused by smoking.
(I watched my father slowly dying from this over several years and it
wasn't very nice)
-----
I watched my brother die of mesothelioma from a summer job, light exposure
in the late 60s. He wasn't involved in maintenance or handling of asbestos,
just working in a room with dust from boilers in need of repair.
"Several years"? Try 25 years of having pleura sacs drained with a 6" needle
between your ribs for months each year and living on rotating antibiotics IV
for 15 years, wondering WTF is happening to you, until they took him apart
to delete the liquid retention places. They know more about this horrible
disease now and it should be diagnosed much quicker. He became the longest
living case after diagnosis after the time. He lived another five years.
Suggesting somebody ignore the cautions and procedures is an ignorant,
careless and immature comment. The well established danger is not even up
for debate anymore.
--
Eric
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> "Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> While reading about stipple, for the sake of installing my 11
>> fluorescent fixtures, the asbestos issue arose...
>>
>> I was just planning to knock down the stipple with a putty knife and
>> screw my lights and EMT conduit up.
>
> That works. Dampen it first if you want to keep dust down.
Thank you Ed, and everyone else to who provided me with advise in
this thead! It is valuable to me now, and it will be in the future too!
By the way, if the stipple has a thin coat of paint on it does this
change the way you have to go about dampening it? That is, is a spray
bottle likely to go it? I presume with a bit of patience...
As far as my light fixtures, I plan to make an open ended box-shaped
template of the appropriate size. I can draw pencil lines, spray through
the box, clean up the openings, and paint 'em up. I'm sure it will be
great fun (lol)! ;) Actually, working in such a systematic fashion
will probably help me complete the job quicker.
Bill
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> "Bill" <[email protected]> wrote
>>
>> By the way, if the stipple has a thin coat of paint on it does this
>> change the way you have to go about dampening it? That is, is a spray
>> bottle likely to go it? I presume with a bit of patience...
>>
>
> Spray bottle with water and a bit of detergent. Scrape, then you can
> wipe with a wet sponge to clear off any residue. You may not have to
> since the light fixture will cover it anyway. There should be not flying
> dust.
>
> Asbestos aside, you don't want to inhale any dust, thus the wetting.
> Makes it easier to scrape also.
Okay. Thank you.
Bill
Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Aug 2011 06:02:25 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> In the garage, I'd probably just get rid of where the lights are and leave
>> the rest.
>
> If he ever does any finishing in there, he'll rue the day he left any
> popcorn on the ceiling to fall into it. Douche it all now!
Larry, Please don't hesitate to think up new projects for me! I'm
having a hard time keep up as it is! : )
Bill
>
> --
> Win first, Fight later.
>
> --martial principle of the Samurai
Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 05:07:37 -0400, Bill<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> While reading about stipple, for the sake of installing my 11
>> fluorescent fixtures, the asbestos issue arose...
>>
>> I was just planning to knock down the stipple with a putty knife and
>> screw my lights and EMT conduit up.
>
> Do yourself a favor. Drape plastic on the floor, moisten the popcorn
> with a fine mist, and watch it drop off. Put it in your trashcan and
> be done with it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74rr71tZN8U
Wow, that was a much better video than I expected!
This one is pretty good too!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWmmjPhC5R4&NR=1&feature=fvwp
Since the ceiling compounds gave the finishers an easy way out, I would
anticipate that some extra drywall work will be required. Nothing like
working on the ceiling, huh? : )
Bill
"Ed Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> The asbestos, of course, was well encapsulated under layers of paint. A
> little knowledge and common sense goes a long way.
>
In this age of sensationalism and alarmism both of those are in very
short supply. Especially when it comes to the elected people who
make the laws.
Art
"willshak" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Dave wrote the following:
> On Wed, 3 Aug 2011 01:16:43 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
>> Dave - he's not responsible for those deaths.
>>
>
> Of course he's not responsible for those deaths. He's only responsible
> for his callous dismissal of the dangers associated with asbestos and
> smoking. And, if he has children that smoke, then his outlook is
> morally related to any smoking related illnesses they might encounter
> later in life.
>
My point is that you don't have to get the EPA involved in every scare.
You don't have to call the EPA to remove some encapsulated asbestos
ceiling if you take the proper precautions, like wearing a dust mask and
wetting the ceiling before scraping off .
The people most affected by asbestos are the workers in the
manufacturing plants.
Black lung is a disease mostly affecting coal miners, not people with
coal stoves and furnaces.
You don't have to call in the EPA when you break a fluorescent bulb.
Now, you can call me any names or question my intelligence, but I will
not act in kind.
My younger brother died of esophageal cancer and he didn't smoke. He
went from 220 lbs to less than a 100 before he died. Who or what do I
blame for that?
==================
...and the best advice is
DO NOT TAKE THE ADVICE ONLINE from CASUAL AQUAINTANCES WHEN IT COMES TO LIFE
THREATENING DECISIONS.
Get real advice from a professional that can be trusted.
--
Eric
"Eric" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> ...and the best advice is
>
> DO NOT TAKE THE ADVICE ONLINE from CASUAL AQUAINTANCES WHEN IT COMES TO LIFE
> THREATENING DECISIONS.
>
> Get real advice from a professional that can be trusted.
> --
> Eric
>
Where can I find a "professional", who doesn't have a vested
interest in making money off of me, that I can trust?
Where can I find a "professional", who isn't afraid of being sued
by a flock of lawyers, that I can trust?
Art
"Bill" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
This one is pretty good too!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWmmjPhC5R4&NR=1&feature=fvwp
Since the ceiling compounds gave the finishers an easy way out, I would
anticipate that some extra drywall work will be required. Nothing like
working on the ceiling, huh? : )
Bill
========
It may be worth your while to attempt to follow the`advice in the video you
supplied a`link to.
They sent a sample to a nearby EPA testing lab for asbestos verification
with no reservations and no fire alarms went off as suggested. I doubt you
live in a place of employment that all these fear mongers concerns may
apply. You would know how much precaution to take and feel much safer
knowing it is or isn't.
Finding out where and how may be another thing, though.
Be sure and be safe!
--
Eric
Morgans wrote:
> "Bill" wrote
>
> Thank you Ed, and everyone else to who provided me with advise in
> this thead! It is valuable to me now, and it will be in the future too!
>
> By the way, if the stipple has a thin coat of paint on it does this
> change the way you have to go about dampening it? That is, is a spray
> bottle likely to go it? I presume with a bit of patience...
>
> As far as my light fixtures, I plan to make an open ended box-shaped
> template of the appropriate size. I can draw pencil lines, spray through
> the box, clean up the openings, and paint 'em up. I'm sure it will be
> great fun (lol)! ;) Actually, working in such a systematic fashion
> will probably help me complete the job quicker.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> I am not sure why you are making this complicated, like you are-and have
> done on other projects.
>
> Step one- use a 3/4" roller, and paint the whole ceiling with white
> stain blocker paint. I suggest this step, because after I sprayed
> popcorn on my older house ceiling, brown stains bled through any place
> there was not joint compound under the paint. You will do the whole
> ceiling just as fast as painting only under the location of the lights
> as you are suggesting. The fresh white will reflect more light and be a
> fresh new look for your old ceiling.
Jim,
I Was planning to paint the whole ceiling. I mentioned painting my
"cutouts" above for the sake of sealing them. As you suggest, this is
certainly not necessary if I'm prepared to paint the ceiling at the same
time. An abundance of "stuff" makes even marking the places for the all
of the lights a bit of a challenge because I have everything moved aways
from ALL of the walls.
Your post contains some excellent suggestions! I've already printed it out.
BTW, I don't make things complicated on purpose. One of the lessons I
learned from by mobile base project was not to make my tolerences too
small: The specifications of the height of the castors did not incude
their 1/8" frame, 3" bolts do not include the thickness of their heads,
and even 2by4 lumber can't be depended upon to be of any size, let alone
2by8 lumber! Lesson gained! I have to give you all of the credit for
teaching me about the mechanics of such mobile bases. I am pleased to
tell you it came out pretty good and I will put a picture on my web page
to show you after things are "tidied up".
Well, admittedly, I did complicate the mobile base project with
"routing" on purpose. I wanted a "free lesson" in using my router for
the first time. I received a very good lesson out of it too. I had a
chance to make a few mistakes, and correct them. Many router projects
wouldn't permit me a chance to re-route.
If you see me making something more complicated then I should, feel free
to point it out! Thank you for your suggestions on my lighting and in
general. I appreciate it!
Bill
>
> Step two- put up your lights and conduit. If you are worried about the
> ceiling stipple breaking loose, put a little caulk on the part you are
> screwing to the ceiling. It will make a flat base for what you are
> putting up, and keep the possible asbestos from breaking free. Don't
> need to scrape any place, this way. Do not finish tightening the screws
> until the caulk dries, if it is not level enough for you when you
> tighten it all the way first.
>
> I would strongly advise that you cut some 1/2" to 3/4" pieces of conduit
> to act as standoffs, to hold the light off the ceiling. Put the spacers
> up and run the screw through the light then the spacers, and the light
> will be much cooler, and last longer, and eliminate the possibility of
> the light overheating and cutting off. This will also make it easy so
> the light will only have a few points of contact of the spacers against
> the ceiling. This is an (old school) trick. You can use a pipe cutter
> for making spacers easy. Just don't use a pipe cutter for cutting the
> emt conduit, because of the sharp edge a pipe cutter will leave on the
> inside.
>
> -- Jim in NC
>
>
Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 12:03:37 -0400, Bill<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Larry Jaques wrote:
>>> On Tue, 2 Aug 2011 06:02:25 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"<[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In the garage, I'd probably just get rid of where the lights are and leave
>>>> the rest.
>>>
>>> If he ever does any finishing in there, he'll rue the day he left any
>>> popcorn on the ceiling to fall into it. Douche it all now!
>>
>> Larry, Please don't hesitate to think up new projects for me! I'm
>> having a hard time keep up as it is! : )
>
> I'm trying to eliminate the need for the AR analyzer to get involved
> and just let you do your projects, eh? ;)
>
> Didja watch the video of the Blob falling from the ceiling? Cool, wot?
Well, the stuff appears to come off Much easier than I would have
supposed! Your comment about the stipple ruining the finishing is
better-taken now too. At first, it just sounded like more work!
>
> --
> In the depth of winter, I finally learned
> that within me there lay an invincible summer.
> -- Albert Camus
Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 12:22:14 -0400, Bill<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Larry Jaques wrote:
>>> On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 05:07:37 -0400, Bill<[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> While reading about stipple, for the sake of installing my 11
>>>> fluorescent fixtures, the asbestos issue arose...
>>>>
>>>> I was just planning to knock down the stipple with a putty knife and
>>>> screw my lights and EMT conduit up.
>>>
>>> Do yourself a favor. Drape plastic on the floor, moisten the popcorn
>>> with a fine mist, and watch it drop off. Put it in your trashcan and
>>> be done with it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74rr71tZN8U
>>
>> Wow, that was a much better video than I expected!
>> This one is pretty good too!
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWmmjPhC5R4&NR=1&feature=fvwp
>
> They took down the plastic too soon. (see below)
>
>
>> Since the ceiling compounds gave the finishers an easy way out, I would
>> anticipate that some extra drywall work will be required. Nothing like
>> working on the ceiling, huh? : )
>
> Yeah, one of my favorite things to do. Kinda like shoveling gravel.
>
> But after the scraping (and allowing it to dry thoroughly) all you
> really need to do is sand the entire ceiling.
I assume after you cleaned up that you would apply joint compound as
required, sand, and give it a skim coat? What more would you do to the
ceiling (sorry if I'm naive about it)? What sort of texture would you
be looking for (name it, and I'll look it up)? After getting ceilings
smoothe as a baby's bottom, why are we going to screw 'em up again?
Yeah, I didn't know what a "ranch" house was very long before I owned
one--I thought it was salad dressing. ; )
That doesn't take all
> that long with an extension pole, so figure an hour for that. Now
> texture it (Eek! Hire that out.) paint it, and put up those light
> fixtures. All done by Christmas!
>
> --
> In the depth of winter, I finally learned
> that within me there lay an invincible summer.
> -- Albert Camus
Morgans wrote:
> I am not sure why you are making this complicated, like you are-and have
> done on other projects.
>
> Step one- use a 3/4" roller, and paint the whole ceiling with white
> stain blocker paint. I suggest this step, because after I sprayed
> popcorn on my older house ceiling, brown stains bled through any place
> there was not joint compound under the paint. You will do the whole
> ceiling just as fast as painting only under the location of the lights
> as you are suggesting. The fresh white will reflect more light and be a
> fresh new look for your old ceiling.
>
> Step two- put up your lights and conduit. If you are worried about the
> ceiling stipple breaking loose, put a little caulk on the part you are
> screwing to the ceiling. It will make a flat base for what you are
> putting up, and keep the possible asbestos from breaking free. Don't
> need to scrape any place, this way. Do not finish tightening the screws
> until the caulk dries, if it is not level enough for you when you
> tighten it all the way first.
>
> I would strongly advise that you cut some 1/2" to 3/4" pieces of conduit
> to act as standoffs, to hold the light off the ceiling. Put the spacers
> up and run the screw through the light then the spacers, and the light
> will be much cooler, and last longer, and eliminate the possibility of
> the light overheating and cutting off. This will also make it easy so
> the light will only have a few points of contact of the spacers against
> the ceiling. This is an (old school) trick. You can use a pipe cutter
> for making spacers easy. Just don't use a pipe cutter for cutting the
> emt conduit, because of the sharp edge a pipe cutter will leave on the
> inside.
>
Your idea impressed me even more since I sent my last message. I make
spacers out of 1/2" EMT and use them to separate the fixtures from the
underlying wallboard (duh)... I presume they will slice neatly through
the stipple...
Now, I also understand also how you suggest to use the caulk...beautiful.
You surely saved me much time and unnecessary aggravation!
Bill
> -- Jim in NC
Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 05:05:52 -0400, Bill<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Larry Jaques wrote:
>>> They took down the plastic too soon. (see below)
>>>
>>>
>>>> Since the ceiling compounds gave the finishers an easy way out, I would
>>>> anticipate that some extra drywall work will be required. Nothing like
>>>> working on the ceiling, huh? : )
>>>
>>> Yeah, one of my favorite things to do. Kinda like shoveling gravel.
>>>
>>> But after the scraping (and allowing it to dry thoroughly) all you
>>> really need to do is sand the entire ceiling.
>>
>> I assume after you cleaned up that you would apply joint compound as
>
> The one time I've removed that crap, the ceiling had been taped,
> mudded, and sanded underneath. There was no repair necessary.
> That said, I've never seen popcorn sprayed on an untaped ceiling, but
> I wasn't in the industry. I've always been a solo freelancer.
>
>
>> required, sand, and give it a skim coat? What more would you do to the
>> ceiling (sorry if I'm naive about it)? What sort of texture would you
>> be looking for (name it, and I'll look it up)? After getting ceilings
>> smoothe as a baby's bottom, why are we going to screw 'em up again?
>
> You don't have to texture, but most walls and ceilings are -not-
> perfect (use high gloss paint and see for yourself<evil grin>) and
> that shows without a texture to hide it.
>
> Chapter 8, Page 162++, of course.
> Or match the texture you put on the rest of the walls.
Yes, Chapter 8, p. 179 in my copy, says:
"Textured finishes, ... . They are excellent at hiding minor surface
imperfections and irregularities."
It much feel terrible to have a ceilings with minor imperfections and
irregularities! ; ) <WEG>
Larry Jaques wrote:
> Uh, Bill. If you leave the popcorn up there and do any finishing
> whatsoever in your shop, you -will- get popcorn droppings in it.
> Murphy backs that thought 100%.
I believe you and, since you showed me just how easy it can be, I can't
rule it out. I am just, unfortunately, unable to add it to this year's
schedule. : (
Now, if you lived closer, I'll be we could zip through some of these
tasks like they was nothin'!
"Bill" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
Eric wrote:
> Finding out where and how may be another thing, though.
>
> Be sure and be safe!
>
> --
>
> Eric
I'll act in a safe manner and be safe!
I treat all guns as loaded. I'm not least bit afraid of guns.
For my $3000, I'd rather have a Delta Unisaw than a SawStop.
I quit tobacco.
Bill
====
I hear ya'
LOL
It would be nice to know how somebody makes out getting something like that
tested. The costs, hassle and how deep the involvement gets. I don't see an
issue outside of the workplace...inside? maybe wow! I have heard a few
doooozies in my life time.
--
Eric
"Bill" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
BTW, I don't make things complicated on purpose. One of the lessons I
learned from by mobile base project was not to make my tolerences too
small: The specifications of the height of the castors did not incude
their 1/8" frame, 3" bolts do not include the thickness of their heads,
and even 2by4 lumber can't be depended upon to be of any size, let alone
2by8 lumber! Lesson gained! I have to give you all of the credit for
teaching me about the mechanics of such mobile bases. I am pleased to
tell you it came out pretty good and I will put a picture on my web page
to show you after things are "tidied up".
======
I just manufactured some wooden tubes to cover the upper part of my bricked
pillars on my deck and wanted them fairly tight to avoid too much trim gap
at the ends. You 47-1/2" and trim the 48" strips down to 47-3/8". Glue and
the wife primed them all before we went to the beach for the day.
Got home and tried one out on pillar #1 (marked inside tube). Damn thing was
1/2" too long...I swear! Remeasured...all the same!
I am sure the wife stretched the damn thing with that paint roller of hers!
Women! Who can trust 'em?
--Eric
Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 18:39:58 -0400, Bill<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Larry Jaques wrote:
>>
>>> Jim, most pipe cutters have a reamer/deburrer attached to them so the
>>> lip can be rendered harmless. http://goo.gl/uDeux 1 pic = 1k words.
>>
>> Have you tried one on EMT? Looks like it might be just the ticket.
>
> Yeah, I've used any old pipe cutter, including the minis (my fave) on
> emt and it cuts fine.
I wasn't worried about it cutting, I wondered how well it's
reamer/deburrer worked. Is that all I would need before running wire
through it? No files?
Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 18:37:28 -0400, Bill<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Larry Jaques wrote:
>>
>>> Uh, Bill. If you leave the popcorn up there and do any finishing
>>> whatsoever in your shop, you -will- get popcorn droppings in it.
>>> Murphy backs that thought 100%.
>>
>>
>> I believe you and, since you showed me just how easy it can be, I can't
>> rule it out. I am just, unfortunately, unable to add it to this year's
>> schedule. : (
>
> Bill, it'll take you half a day at best, and I guarantee that if you
> -don't- do it before you hang those lights, it will never get done.
> BTDT, got the t-shirt.
If I was going to remove stipple, it would be in the rest of the house.
If I was going to remove it from the garage, I would replace the aging
drywall on the ceiling there too. Who knows.. maybe in a few years. No
need, for now. I appreciate all the ideas I got on the topic this week.
Not only will they help me, they will also help me be safe!
Bill
Morgans wrote:
> Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>> Jim, most pipe cutters have a reamer/deburrer attached to them so the
>> lip can be rendered harmless. http://goo.gl/uDeux 1 pic = 1k words.
>
> That is allowable when cutting ridged conduit for electrical use. EMT is
> best cut with a hacksaw, then lightly reamed to remove cutting burrs.
> Using a reamer does not make a finish that does not cut wires. Try it,
> don't just read about it, jackleg.
I bought the pipe cutting unit linked to above yesterday. Hmmm 26.99 to
cut 40 spacers--maybe I should take it back. I'll see how long it takes
me to cut the EMT with a hack saw first! : )
By the way, what is a good choice of caulk that would make a good choice
for the used already described? It's occured to me that it shouldn't be
heat sensitive (produce dangerous fumes when warmed) or be flammable.
Larry, I had nightmares about the stipple getting in my finishing last
night!! : )
Bill
"Bill" wrote
I bought the pipe cutting unit linked to above yesterday. Hmmm 26.99 to
cut 40 spacers--maybe I should take it back. I'll see how long it takes
me to cut the EMT with a hack saw first! : )
By the way, what is a good choice of caulk that would make a good choice
for the used already described? It's occured to me that it shouldn't be
heat sensitive (produce dangerous fumes when warmed) or be flammable.
Larry, I had nightmares about the stipple getting in my finishing last
night!! : )
If you are not going to run wires through the spacers (which you will not be
doing) it is fine to cut it with a pipe cutter. The problem cutting EMT
with a pipe cutter is that it crushes it as it cuts it, leaving a sharp
edge, and when you ream it, it just gets sharper. If you run wires though
it, there is a very good chance that some wires will get their insulations
cut, and cause a short.
-- Jim in NC
Morgans wrote:
> "Bill" wrote
> I bought the pipe cutting unit linked to above yesterday. Hmmm 26.99 to
> cut 40 spacers--maybe I should take it back. I'll see how long it takes
> me to cut the EMT with a hack saw first! : )
>
> By the way, what is a good choice of caulk that would make a good choice
> for the used already described? It's occured to me that it shouldn't be
> heat sensitive (produce dangerous fumes when warmed) or be flammable.
>
> Larry, I had nightmares about the stipple getting in my finishing last
> night!! : )
>
> If you are not going to run wires through the spacers (which you will
> not be doing) it is fine to cut it with a pipe cutter. The problem
> cutting EMT with a pipe cutter is that it crushes it as it cuts it,
> leaving a sharp edge, and when you ream it, it just gets sharper. If you
> run wires though it, there is a very good chance that some wires will
> get their insulations cut, and cause a short.
Yes, I understood that from your last post to Larry. I appreciate your
pointing it out. Hack saw and a round file, huh?
>
> -- Jim in NC
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> "Morgans" <[email protected]> wrote
>>
>> By the way, what is a good choice of caulk that would make a good choice
>> for the used already described? It's occured to me that it shouldn't be
>> heat sensitive (produce dangerous fumes when warmed) or be flammable.
>
> I'd make an asbestos paste and smear it on.
I'll mix the paste as-best-os-I-can...you will think I am Chef Boyardee!
: )
Morgans wrote:
> "Bill" wrote
>
> Yes, I understood that from your last post to Larry. I appreciate your
> pointing it out. Hack saw and a round file, huh?
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Yes, but a light ream on a hacksaw cut EMT works well, does not make a
> sharp edge, and is faster.
>
> -- Jim in NC
>
Jim, Is this the sort of tool you would recommend for that?
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_SPM223943197P?prdNo=2&blockNo=2&blockType=G2#desc
Bill
That would do it. It's only the inside burrs that are a problem with an EMT
fitting slid over it.
--------
"Bill" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
Jim, Is this the sort of tool you would recommend for that?
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_SPM223943197P?prdNo=2&blockNo=2&blockType=G2#desc
Bill
On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 11:49:55 -0400, willshak <[email protected]>
wrote:
>After adding more ducts, I installed new asbestos covering to the new
>ductwork.
>I was in my late teens at the time.
>I also have been a smoker since then.
>I'm 73 now.
You know, this crap is the standard line I hear all the time. And,
pisses me off. Perhaps you're one of the lucky ones. Or, maybe it just
hasn't caught up with you yet. But, just once in your life consider
the thousands who weren't so lucky. Obviously, you've never been close
to someone dying of lung cancer, or malignant mesothelioma? Else, why
would you spout such crap. Do you have any idea what kind of suffering
they go through?
I've had to watch helplessly as my father died of lung cancer, my
mother die of colon cancer and a very close friend die of
melanoma.They were terrible deaths and not something I'd wish on
anyone, not even arrogant mouthpieces like you.
"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> By the way, if the stipple has a thin coat of paint on it does this change
> the way you have to go about dampening it? That is, is a spray bottle
> likely to go it? I presume with a bit of patience...
>
Spray bottle with water and a bit of detergent. Scrape, then you can wipe
with a wet sponge to clear off any residue. You may not have to since the
light fixture will cover it anyway. There should be not flying dust.
Asbestos aside, you don't want to inhale any dust, thus the wetting. Makes
it easier to scrape also.
"Bill" wrote
Yes, I understood that from your last post to Larry. I appreciate your
pointing it out. Hack saw and a round file, huh?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but a light ream on a hacksaw cut EMT works well, does not make a sharp
edge, and is faster.
-- Jim in NC
On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 12:03:37 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Tue, 2 Aug 2011 06:02:25 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"<[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In the garage, I'd probably just get rid of where the lights are and leave
>>> the rest.
>>
>> If he ever does any finishing in there, he'll rue the day he left any
>> popcorn on the ceiling to fall into it. Douche it all now!
>
>Larry, Please don't hesitate to think up new projects for me! I'm
>having a hard time keep up as it is! : )
I'm trying to eliminate the need for the AR analyzer to get involved
and just let you do your projects, eh? ;)
Didja watch the video of the Blob falling from the ceiling? Cool, wot?
--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus
On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 07:10:46 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 18:39:58 -0400, Bill<[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jim, most pipe cutters have a reamer/deburrer attached to them so the
>>>> lip can be rendered harmless. http://goo.gl/uDeux 1 pic = 1k words.
>>>
>>> Have you tried one on EMT? Looks like it might be just the ticket.
>>
>> Yeah, I've used any old pipe cutter, including the minis (my fave) on
>> emt and it cuts fine.
>
>I wasn't worried about it cutting, I wondered how well it's
>reamer/deburrer worked. Is that all I would need before running wire
>through it? No files?
They work well enough. Since the emt goes into connectors which
protect the ends, all you have to do is debur it so it doesn't chafe
the wiring, and the deburrer works well enough for that, yes.
--
Worry is a misuse of imagination.
-- Dan Zadra
On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 18:39:58 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>> Jim, most pipe cutters have a reamer/deburrer attached to them so the
>> lip can be rendered harmless. http://goo.gl/uDeux 1 pic = 1k words.
>
>Have you tried one on EMT? Looks like it might be just the ticket.
Yeah, I've used any old pipe cutter, including the minis (my fave) on
emt and it cuts fine.
--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus
On Wed, 3 Aug 2011 01:16:43 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
>Dave - he's not responsible for those deaths.
Of course he's not responsible for those deaths. He's only responsible
for his callous dismissal of the dangers associated with asbestos and
smoking. And, if he has children that smoke, then his outlook is
morally related to any smoking related illnesses they might encounter
later in life.
On Tue, 2 Aug 2011 06:02:25 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>In the garage, I'd probably just get rid of where the lights are and leave
>the rest.
If he ever does any finishing in there, he'll rue the day he left any
popcorn on the ceiling to fall into it. Douche it all now!
--
Win first, Fight later.
--martial principle of the Samurai
On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 07:27:49 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 18:37:28 -0400, Bill<[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>
>>>> Uh, Bill. If you leave the popcorn up there and do any finishing
>>>> whatsoever in your shop, you -will- get popcorn droppings in it.
>>>> Murphy backs that thought 100%.
>>>
>>>
>>> I believe you and, since you showed me just how easy it can be, I can't
>>> rule it out. I am just, unfortunately, unable to add it to this year's
>>> schedule. : (
>>
>> Bill, it'll take you half a day at best, and I guarantee that if you
>> -don't- do it before you hang those lights, it will never get done.
>> BTDT, got the t-shirt.
>
>If I was going to remove stipple, it would be in the rest of the house.
>If I was going to remove it from the garage, I would replace the aging
>drywall on the ceiling there too. Who knows.. maybe in a few years. No
>need, for now. I appreciate all the ideas I got on the topic this week.
>Not only will they help me, they will also help me be safe!
Warning: Once you disturb popcorn, it starts flaking worse.
Being matte and bumpy, it also sucks light rather than reflecting it.
G'luck!
--
Worry is a misuse of imagination.
-- Dan Zadra
On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 05:07:37 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:
>While reading about stipple, for the sake of installing my 11
>fluorescent fixtures, the asbestos issue arose...
>
>I was just planning to knock down the stipple with a putty knife and
>screw my lights and EMT conduit up.
Do yourself a favor. Drape plastic on the floor, moisten the popcorn
with a fine mist, and watch it drop off. Put it in your trashcan and
be done with it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74rr71tZN8U
>House built in '72, has "stipple" ceilings in every room
>including the garage. The stipple in the garage looks a little thicker
>than the stuff in the rest of the house. I don't really know the
>house's history. Did they used to stipple newly built houses? Based
>upon looking at my closet which is neither smoothe nor stippled, I'm
>guessing the answer is maybe! I read that they stopped allowing
>asbestos in "ceiling compounds" in 1977.
Yes, they popcorned most ceilings in the 60s and 70s, but never
closets.
>Now I'm concerned as to whether (and how) I need to do an asbestos test
>on the ceiling material or whether I need to do anything differently.
>For instance, I could paint where I knock the stipple down, but that's
>not what I had planned. I found names of couple companies in
>Indianapolis that perform such tests, but I'm not exactly sure how to
>proceed. I am considering sampling the garage and the rest of the house
>in 2 separate samples, just so I know. Your advice is welcome!
Caution: Should you truly feel the need to know whether or not it has
that ghastlyhorriblenastyassevil "asbestos" stuff in it and discover
that it -does-, your house will be marked by the PTBs, invaded by the
EPA, and it will cost many thousands of dollars to have it removed by
some poor souls who jumped through all the hoops and became licensed
to deal with that ghastlyhorriblenastyassevil "asbestos" stuff. (Ditto
lead.)
I've never felt the need to know, myself. Just Say NO! <wink>
P.S: Over 90% of all the asbestos mined was of a non-lethal type and
victims were almost entirely those who worked in the mines for 30
years without respirators. Do the research and join me in shaking your
head in disbelief at what the lawyers have done to this country.
--
Win first, Fight later.
--martial principle of the Samurai
On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 05:05:52 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Larry Jaques wrote:
>> They took down the plastic too soon. (see below)
>>
>>
>>> Since the ceiling compounds gave the finishers an easy way out, I would
>>> anticipate that some extra drywall work will be required. Nothing like
>>> working on the ceiling, huh? : )
>>
>> Yeah, one of my favorite things to do. Kinda like shoveling gravel.
>>
>> But after the scraping (and allowing it to dry thoroughly) all you
>> really need to do is sand the entire ceiling.
>
>I assume after you cleaned up that you would apply joint compound as
The one time I've removed that crap, the ceiling had been taped,
mudded, and sanded underneath. There was no repair necessary.
That said, I've never seen popcorn sprayed on an untaped ceiling, but
I wasn't in the industry. I've always been a solo freelancer.
>required, sand, and give it a skim coat? What more would you do to the
>ceiling (sorry if I'm naive about it)? What sort of texture would you
>be looking for (name it, and I'll look it up)? After getting ceilings
>smoothe as a baby's bottom, why are we going to screw 'em up again?
You don't have to texture, but most walls and ceilings are -not-
perfect (use high gloss paint and see for yourself <evil grin>) and
that shows without a texture to hide it.
Chapter 8, Page 162++, of course.
Or match the texture you put on the rest of the walls.
>Yeah, I didn't know what a "ranch" house was very long before I owned
>one--I thought it was salad dressing. ; )
<groan>
(Yes, from Myron Ferguson's _Drywall_ book.)
--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus
Bill wrote the following:
> Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 05:07:37 -0400, Bill<[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> While reading about stipple, for the sake of installing my 11
>>> fluorescent fixtures, the asbestos issue arose...
>>>
>>> I was just planning to knock down the stipple with a putty knife and
>>> screw my lights and EMT conduit up.
>>
>> Do yourself a favor. Drape plastic on the floor, moisten the popcorn
>> with a fine mist, and watch it drop off. Put it in your trashcan and
>> be done with it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74rr71tZN8U
>
> Wow, that was a much better video than I expected!
> This one is pretty good too!
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWmmjPhC5R4&NR=1&feature=fvwp
>
> Since the ceiling compounds gave the finishers an easy way out, I would
> anticipate that some extra drywall work will be required. Nothing like
> working on the ceiling, huh? : )
>
> Bill
When the plasterboard finishers in my newly constructed home, built in
1984, the spackle guy asked me if I wanted to have a 'swirled finish' on
the LR and DR ceilings. Of course, we said OK.
He told us it would cost a little extra and we agreed. He used an old
wallpaper brush to do the swirling.
Many of you know that it takes about 3 days to do a proper spackling
job, depending upon the relative humidity.
1st coat one day, sand and second coat the second day, finish sand the
third day.
We paid extra to eliminate the second and third day for the spackling
finishing on the LR and DR ceilings.
We did learn a lesson though. I watched the guy swirl the ceiling and
did some more ceilings in the house myself.
--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @
Dave wrote the following:
> On Wed, 3 Aug 2011 01:16:43 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
>
>> Dave - he's not responsible for those deaths.
>>
>
> Of course he's not responsible for those deaths. He's only responsible
> for his callous dismissal of the dangers associated with asbestos and
> smoking. And, if he has children that smoke, then his outlook is
> morally related to any smoking related illnesses they might encounter
> later in life.
>
My point is that you don't have to get the EPA involved in every scare.
You don't have to call the EPA to remove some encapsulated asbestos
ceiling if you take the proper precautions, like wearing a dust mask and
wetting the ceiling before scraping off .
The people most affected by asbestos are the workers in the
manufacturing plants.
Black lung is a disease mostly affecting coal miners, not people with
coal stoves and furnaces.
You don't have to call in the EPA when you break a fluorescent bulb.
Now, you can call me any names or question my intelligence, but I will
not act in kind.
My younger brother died of esophageal cancer and he didn't smoke. He
went from 220 lbs to less than a 100 before he died. Who or what do I
blame for that?
--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @
"Morgans" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> By the way, what is a good choice of caulk that would make a good choice
> for the used already described? It's occured to me that it shouldn't be
> heat sensitive (produce dangerous fumes when warmed) or be flammable.
I'd make an asbestos paste and smear it on.
Read the comments on the youtube video. Sounds like nobody else can get it
to come off like that.
-------------
"Bill" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
Well, the stuff appears to come off Much easier than I would have
supposed! Your comment about the stipple ruining the finishing is
better-taken now too. At first, it just sounded like more work!
Larry Jaques wrote:
> Jim, most pipe cutters have a reamer/deburrer attached to them so the
> lip can be rendered harmless. http://goo.gl/uDeux 1 pic = 1k words.
That is allowable when cutting ridged conduit for electrical use. EMT is
best cut with a hacksaw, then lightly reamed to remove cutting burrs. Using
a reamer does not make a finish that does not cut wires. Try it, don't just
read about it, jackleg.