Hg

Hoosierpopi

01/07/2010 12:21 PM

220VAC vs. 240VAC Saw Motor S.O.T.

I was asked today about a motor stamped 240VAC. I kept saying 220
volts and my neighbor would interupt and remind me it said 240 VAC.

I told hm that I didn't think it mattered and that I'd never heard an
explanation of why we see stuff rated at 240 VAC when most of our
homes seem to come standard with 220 VAC and 115VAC.

I've heard 120VAC bandied about and figure those two legs make up the
240VAC.

I told hime that I knew where to post this question having seen days
of posts on similar Electrical (S.O.T. - somewhat off topic) posts
with some folks who appeared to know their stuff providing links to
references and resources.


So, if one og those folks is reading this, please respond and tell me
what gives with the 220 vs. 240 VAC. Can we ignore the minor
difference and usethese motors on "220" or "240?"

FYI - The motor in question did not indicate it was a dual 120/240
voltage motor - it just said 240!

Thanks for reading. Please reply to author.


This topic has 24 replies

NN

"Nonny"

in reply to Hoosierpopi on 01/07/2010 12:21 PM

01/07/2010 7:16 PM


"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
>
> "Gordon Shumway" wrote
>>
>> I'll do my best to simplify the answer.
>>
>> I think its time for me to explain about 240 current and why it
>> is so
>> different from 120 volt service. First of all, it's twice as
>> big.
>> Secondly, it'll shock you more. Outside of that, 240 is really
>> two
>> 120 volt lines coming to your house from different parts of the
>> globe.
>> The up and down 120 comes from the northern hemisphere, and the
>> down
>> and up version comes from below the equator.
>>
>> Without trying to get technical, it all boils down to the
>> direction
>> water flows when it goes down the drain. In the top of the
>> earth, it
>> goes clockwise, while on the bottom of the earth it goes
>> counter
>> clockwise. Since most electricity is made from hydro dams, the
>> clockwise flow gives you an up and down sine wave, while the
>> counterclockwise version gives you a down and up sine wave.
>> Between
>> the two, you have 240 volts, while either individual side only
>> gives
>> you 120 volts.
>>
>> This is particularly important to know when buying power
>> tools --
>> which side of the globe did they come from? If you get an
>> Australian
>> saw, for instance, it will turn backwards if connected to a US
>> generated 120 volt source. Sure, you can buy backwards blades
>> for it,
>> but that is an unnecessary burden. Other appliances, like
>> toasters
>> cannot be converted from Australian electricity to American
>> electricity. I knew one person who bought an Australian
>> toaster by
>> mistake and it froze the slices of bread she put in it.
>>
>> If you wire your shop with 240 and accidentally get two
>> US-generated
>> 120 volt lines run in by accident, you can get 240 by using a
>> trick I
>> learned from an old electrician. Just put each source into its
>> own
>> fuse box and then turn one of the boxes upside down. That'll
>> invert
>> one of the two up and down sine waves to down and up, giving
>> you 240.
>> DO NOT just turn the box sideways, since that'll give you 165
>> volts
>> and you'll be limited to just using Canadian tools with it.
>
> Many years ago, I went to electronics school. The guys there
> would have howled at this bit of lunacy.
>
> I am trying figure out if you are really funny or just totally
> disturbed. Did you write this or get it from someplace?
>
>
>

Haven't you ever heard of a power inverter?

--
On most days,
it’s just not worth
the effort of chewing
through the restraints..

DB

Dave Balderstone

in reply to Hoosierpopi on 01/07/2010 12:21 PM

02/07/2010 8:31 AM

In article <[email protected]>, <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Canadian craftsmen only use power
> tools to open paint cans and drive nails.

Finally! A use for that Craftsman router sitting on my tool shelf!

--
“The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s
money.” - Margaret Thatcher

NN

"Nonny"

in reply to Hoosierpopi on 01/07/2010 12:21 PM

02/07/2010 8:33 PM


"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Nonny wrote:
>> "Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote in
>> message news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> "Gordon Shumway" wrote
>>>>
>>>> I'll do my best to simplify the answer.
>>>>
>>>> I think its time for me to explain about 240 current and why
>>>> it
>>>> is so
>>>> different from 120 volt service. First of all, it's twice as
>>>> big.
>>>> Secondly, it'll shock you more. Outside of that, 240 is
>>>> really
>>>> two
>>>> 120 volt lines coming to your house from different parts of
>>>> the
>>>> globe.
>>>> The up and down 120 comes from the northern hemisphere, and
>>>> the
>>>> down
>>>> and up version comes from below the equator.
>>>>
>>>> Without trying to get technical, it all boils down to the
>>>> direction
>>>> water flows when it goes down the drain. In the top of the
>>>> earth, it
>>>> goes clockwise, while on the bottom of the earth it goes
>>>> counter
>>>> clockwise. Since most electricity is made from hydro dams,
>>>> the
>>>> clockwise flow gives you an up and down sine wave, while the
>>>> counterclockwise version gives you a down and up sine wave.
>>>> Between
>>>> the two, you have 240 volts, while either individual side
>>>> only
>>>> gives
>>>> you 120 volts.
>>>>
>>>> This is particularly important to know when buying power
>>>> tools --
>>>> which side of the globe did they come from? If you get an
>>>> Australian
>>>> saw, for instance, it will turn backwards if connected to a
>>>> US
>>>> generated 120 volt source. Sure, you can buy backwards
>>>> blades
>>>> for it,
>>>> but that is an unnecessary burden. Other appliances, like
>>>> toasters
>>>> cannot be converted from Australian electricity to American
>>>> electricity. I knew one person who bought an Australian
>>>> toaster by
>>>> mistake and it froze the slices of bread she put in it.
>>>>
>>>> If you wire your shop with 240 and accidentally get two
>>>> US-generated
>>>> 120 volt lines run in by accident, you can get 240 by using a
>>>> trick I
>>>> learned from an old electrician. Just put each source into
>>>> its
>>>> own
>>>> fuse box and then turn one of the boxes upside down. That'll
>>>> invert
>>>> one of the two up and down sine waves to down and up, giving
>>>> you 240.
>>>> DO NOT just turn the box sideways, since that'll give you 165
>>>> volts
>>>> and you'll be limited to just using Canadian tools with it.
>>>
>>> Many years ago, I went to electronics school. The guys there
>>> would have howled at this bit of lunacy.
>>>
>>> I am trying figure out if you are really funny or just totally
>>> disturbed. Did you write this or get it from someplace?

Let's just say that sometimes a person with a technical background
can have a sense of humor.

Lighten up- you'll live longer.

Nonny

--
On most days,
it’s just not worth
the effort of chewing
through the restraints..

mr

marc rosen

in reply to Hoosierpopi on 01/07/2010 12:21 PM

02/07/2010 6:59 PM

On Jul 1, 6:02=A0pm, Gordon Shumway <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Jul 2010 12:21:21 -0700 (PDT), Hoosierpopi
Gordon,
You explanation makes perfect sense but it does not explain where we
would get a third pahse from if we need 3 phase power. Any ideas?
Marc

LM

"Lee Michaels"

in reply to Hoosierpopi on 01/07/2010 12:21 PM

01/07/2010 6:37 PM


"Gordon Shumway" wrote
>
> I'll do my best to simplify the answer.
>
> I think its time for me to explain about 240 current and why it is so
> different from 120 volt service. First of all, it's twice as big.
> Secondly, it'll shock you more. Outside of that, 240 is really two
> 120 volt lines coming to your house from different parts of the globe.
> The up and down 120 comes from the northern hemisphere, and the down
> and up version comes from below the equator.
>
> Without trying to get technical, it all boils down to the direction
> water flows when it goes down the drain. In the top of the earth, it
> goes clockwise, while on the bottom of the earth it goes counter
> clockwise. Since most electricity is made from hydro dams, the
> clockwise flow gives you an up and down sine wave, while the
> counterclockwise version gives you a down and up sine wave. Between
> the two, you have 240 volts, while either individual side only gives
> you 120 volts.
>
> This is particularly important to know when buying power tools --
> which side of the globe did they come from? If you get an Australian
> saw, for instance, it will turn backwards if connected to a US
> generated 120 volt source. Sure, you can buy backwards blades for it,
> but that is an unnecessary burden. Other appliances, like toasters
> cannot be converted from Australian electricity to American
> electricity. I knew one person who bought an Australian toaster by
> mistake and it froze the slices of bread she put in it.
>
> If you wire your shop with 240 and accidentally get two US-generated
> 120 volt lines run in by accident, you can get 240 by using a trick I
> learned from an old electrician. Just put each source into its own
> fuse box and then turn one of the boxes upside down. That'll invert
> one of the two up and down sine waves to down and up, giving you 240.
> DO NOT just turn the box sideways, since that'll give you 165 volts
> and you'll be limited to just using Canadian tools with it.

Many years ago, I went to electronics school. The guys there would have
howled at this bit of lunacy.

I am trying figure out if you are really funny or just totally disturbed.
Did you write this or get it from someplace?


LH

"Lew Hodgett"

in reply to Hoosierpopi on 01/07/2010 12:21 PM

01/07/2010 3:52 PM


"Hoosierpopi" wrote:

>I was asked today about a motor stamped 240VAC. I kept saying 220
> volts and my neighbor would interupt and remind me it said 240 VAC.
--------------------------------------
Many years ago NEMA (National Electrical Manufacturers Association)
adopted the following:

"Distribution" devices such as transformers shall be rated at 120
Volts and multiples there of while "Utilitazition" devices such as
motors shall be rated at 115 Volts and multiples there of.

The 5 volt difference was provided to allow for line losses.

The 110/220 Volt rating predates the above back to the days of Edison.

Lew

c

in reply to Hoosierpopi on 01/07/2010 12:21 PM

02/07/2010 12:48 AM


>
>I'll do my best to simplify the answer.
>
>
>I think its time for me to explain about 240 current and why it is so
>different from 120 volt service. First of all, it's twice as big.
>Secondly, it'll shock you more. Outside of that, 240 is really two
>120 volt lines coming to your house from different parts of the globe.
>The up and down 120 comes from the northern hemisphere, and the down
>and up version comes from below the equator.
>
>Without trying to get technical, it all boils down to the direction
>water flows when it goes down the drain. In the top of the earth, it
>goes clockwise, while on the bottom of the earth it goes counter
>clockwise. Since most electricity is made from hydro dams, the
>clockwise flow gives you an up and down sine wave, while the
>counterclockwise version gives you a down and up sine wave. Between
>the two, you have 240 volts, while either individual side only gives
>you 120 volts.
>
>This is particularly important to know when buying power tools --
>which side of the globe did they come from? If you get an Australian
>saw, for instance, it will turn backwards if connected to a US
>generated 120 volt source. Sure, you can buy backwards blades for it,
>but that is an unnecessary burden. Other appliances, like toasters
>cannot be converted from Australian electricity to American
>electricity. I knew one person who bought an Australian toaster by
>mistake and it froze the slices of bread she put in it.
>
>If you wire your shop with 240 and accidentally get two US-generated
>120 volt lines run in by accident, you can get 240 by using a trick I
>learned from an old electrician. Just put each source into its own
>fuse box and then turn one of the boxes upside down. That'll invert
>one of the two up and down sine waves to down and up, giving you 240.
>DO NOT just turn the box sideways, since that'll give you 165 volts
>and you'll be limited to just using Canadian tools with it.


Nicely done. One mistake tho. Canadian craftsmen only use power
tools to open paint cans and drive nails. Please try and keep up
with the new technologies. Other than that, your right on the money.


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: [email protected] ---

Nn

Nova

in reply to Hoosierpopi on 01/07/2010 12:21 PM

02/07/2010 5:51 AM

Gordon Shumway wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Jul 2010 12:21:21 -0700 (PDT), Hoosierpopi
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>I was asked today about a motor stamped 240VAC. I kept saying 220
>>volts and my neighbor would interupt and remind me it said 240 VAC.
>>
>>I told hm that I didn't think it mattered and that I'd never heard an
>>explanation of why we see stuff rated at 240 VAC when most of our
>>homes seem to come standard with 220 VAC and 115VAC.
>>

<snip>

> If you wire your shop with 240 and accidentally get two US-generated
> 120 volt lines run in by accident, you can get 240 by using a trick I
> learned from an old electrician. Just put each source into its own
> fuse box and then turn one of the boxes upside down. That'll invert
> one of the two up and down sine waves to down and up, giving you 240.
> DO NOT just turn the box sideways, since that'll give you 165 volts
> and you'll be limited to just using Canadian tools with it.

Aha! This answers the original question. It addresses boxes that are
mounted at a slight angle.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]

Pp

Puckdropper

in reply to Hoosierpopi on 01/07/2010 12:21 PM

03/07/2010 3:11 AM

marc rosen <[email protected]> wrote in news:3d19f9c2-c22b-4cd0-9fa4-
[email protected]:

> On Jul 1, 6:02 pm, Gordon Shumway <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Thu, 1 Jul 2010 12:21:21 -0700 (PDT), Hoosierpopi
> Gordon,
> You explanation makes perfect sense but it does not explain where we
> would get a third pahse from if we need 3 phase power. Any ideas?
> Marc

Mount a 3rd breaker box on a wall that intersects with the current wall at
90 degrees.

Puckdropper
--
Never teach your apprentice everything you know.

JJ

"Josepi"

in reply to Hoosierpopi on 01/07/2010 12:21 PM

02/07/2010 10:10 PM

Simple!

You use another breaker and run it's 120v through a photocell detector like
the ones used on sentinel yard lights on a farm laneway. Use the regular
240 volt during the day and the other 120v one through the photocell will
only come on at nights, being out of phase.


"marc rosen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:3d19f9c2-c22b-4cd0-9fa4-f47453aa5145@q12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
Gordon,
You explanation makes perfect sense but it does not explain where we
would get a third pahse from if we need 3 phase power. Any ideas?
Marc


On Jul 1, 6:02 pm, Gordon Shumway <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Jul 2010 12:21:21 -0700 (PDT), Hoosierpopi

JS

John Santos

in reply to Hoosierpopi on 01/07/2010 12:21 PM

04/07/2010 12:18 AM

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...>
> On Thu, 1 Jul 2010 12:21:21 -0700 (PDT), Hoosierpopi
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I was asked today about a motor stamped 240VAC. I kept saying 220
> >volts and my neighbor would interupt and remind me it said 240 VAC.
> >
> >I told hm that I didn't think it mattered and that I'd never heard an
> >explanation of why we see stuff rated at 240 VAC when most of our
> >homes seem to come standard with 220 VAC and 115VAC.
> >
> >I've heard 120VAC bandied about and figure those two legs make up the
> >240VAC.
> >
> >I told hime that I knew where to post this question having seen days
> >of posts on similar Electrical (S.O.T. - somewhat off topic) posts
> >with some folks who appeared to know their stuff providing links to
> >references and resources.
> >
> >
> >So, if one og those folks is reading this, please respond and tell me
> >what gives with the 220 vs. 240 VAC. Can we ignore the minor
> >difference and usethese motors on "220" or "240?"
> >
> >FYI - The motor in question did not indicate it was a dual 120/240
> >voltage motor - it just said 240!
> >
> >Thanks for reading. Please reply to author.
>
> I'll do my best to simplify the answer.

[...]

> This is particularly important to know when buying power tools --
> which side of the globe did they come from? If you get an Australian
> saw, for instance, it will turn backwards if connected to a US
> generated 120 volt source. Sure, you can buy backwards blades for it,
> but that is an unnecessary burden.

This is idiotic. How could anyone believe such a stupid thing? Just
buy an ordinary American blade and flip it around! Anyone who tells
you different is just trying to rip you off.

The teeth will be pointing backwards, but that's fine. Just remember to
feed from the back of the table saw, from the motor side for a
contractor
saw, cabinet and hybrids are even easier. (You'll probably have to
chuck out the blade guard if you can find it, unless you have one of
those ones suspended from above by a long arm. Those are easy to turn
around.)

--
John

JJ

"Josepi"

in reply to Hoosierpopi on 01/07/2010 12:21 PM

02/07/2010 11:40 PM

I think you were taken in by another form of humour. Hard to tell in text
without a defined indicator
:-P

But then his name is Mike so who knows?

LOL


"Nonny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Let's just say that sometimes a person with a technical background
can have a sense of humor.

Lighten up- you'll live longer.

Nonny




"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>> I am trying figure out if you are really funny or just totally
>>> disturbed. Did you write this or get it from someplace?



JJ

"Josepi"

in reply to Hoosierpopi on 01/07/2010 12:21 PM

02/07/2010 11:42 PM

Run it through a thermostat and set it at 60 degrees.


"Puckdropper" <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Mount a 3rd breaker box on a wall that intersects with the current wall at
90 degrees.

Puckdropper


marc rosen <[email protected]> wrote in news:3d19f9c2-c22b-4cd0-9fa4-
[email protected]:

> On Jul 1, 6:02 pm, Gordon Shumway <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Thu, 1 Jul 2010 12:21:21 -0700 (PDT), Hoosierpopi
> Gordon,
> You explanation makes perfect sense but it does not explain where we
> would get a third pahse from if we need 3 phase power. Any ideas?
> Marc



MM

"Mike Marlow"

in reply to Hoosierpopi on 01/07/2010 12:21 PM

02/07/2010 7:30 AM

Nonny wrote:
> "Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote in
> message news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Gordon Shumway" wrote
>>>
>>> I'll do my best to simplify the answer.
>>>
>>> I think its time for me to explain about 240 current and why it
>>> is so
>>> different from 120 volt service. First of all, it's twice as
>>> big.
>>> Secondly, it'll shock you more. Outside of that, 240 is really
>>> two
>>> 120 volt lines coming to your house from different parts of the
>>> globe.
>>> The up and down 120 comes from the northern hemisphere, and the
>>> down
>>> and up version comes from below the equator.
>>>
>>> Without trying to get technical, it all boils down to the
>>> direction
>>> water flows when it goes down the drain. In the top of the
>>> earth, it
>>> goes clockwise, while on the bottom of the earth it goes
>>> counter
>>> clockwise. Since most electricity is made from hydro dams, the
>>> clockwise flow gives you an up and down sine wave, while the
>>> counterclockwise version gives you a down and up sine wave.
>>> Between
>>> the two, you have 240 volts, while either individual side only
>>> gives
>>> you 120 volts.
>>>
>>> This is particularly important to know when buying power
>>> tools --
>>> which side of the globe did they come from? If you get an
>>> Australian
>>> saw, for instance, it will turn backwards if connected to a US
>>> generated 120 volt source. Sure, you can buy backwards blades
>>> for it,
>>> but that is an unnecessary burden. Other appliances, like
>>> toasters
>>> cannot be converted from Australian electricity to American
>>> electricity. I knew one person who bought an Australian
>>> toaster by
>>> mistake and it froze the slices of bread she put in it.
>>>
>>> If you wire your shop with 240 and accidentally get two
>>> US-generated
>>> 120 volt lines run in by accident, you can get 240 by using a
>>> trick I
>>> learned from an old electrician. Just put each source into its
>>> own
>>> fuse box and then turn one of the boxes upside down. That'll
>>> invert
>>> one of the two up and down sine waves to down and up, giving
>>> you 240.
>>> DO NOT just turn the box sideways, since that'll give you 165
>>> volts
>>> and you'll be limited to just using Canadian tools with it.
>>
>> Many years ago, I went to electronics school. The guys there
>> would have howled at this bit of lunacy.
>>
>> I am trying figure out if you are really funny or just totally
>> disturbed. Did you write this or get it from someplace?
>>
>>
>>
>
> Haven't you ever heard of a power inverter?

That's a totally different beast. We're talking just about voltage here...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

LJ

Larry Jaques

in reply to Hoosierpopi on 01/07/2010 12:21 PM

02/07/2010 9:23 PM

On Fri, 02 Jul 2010 00:48:20 GMT, [email protected] wrote the following:

Gordy said:
>>I'll do my best to simplify the answer.
>>
-snippy-
>>DO NOT just turn the box sideways, since that'll give you 165 volts
>>and you'll be limited to just using Canadian tools with it.
>
>
>Nicely done. One mistake tho. Canadian craftsmen only use power
>tools to open paint cans and drive nails. Please try and keep up
>with the new technologies. Other than that, your right on the money.

You're mistaken, sir. Canuckistanis also use high-powered/high-speed
routers in the kitchen for making whipped cream. Ask your local
Ironmonger, David Eisan. (or googlit on the Wreck)

--
The most powerful factors in the world are clear ideas
in the minds of energetic men of good will.
-- J. Arthur Thomson

Ff

FrozenNorth

in reply to Hoosierpopi on 01/07/2010 12:21 PM

01/07/2010 3:47 PM

On 7/01/10 3:21 PM, Hoosierpopi wrote:
> I was asked today about a motor stamped 240VAC. I kept saying 220
> volts and my neighbor would interupt and remind me it said 240 VAC.
>
> I told hm that I didn't think it mattered and that I'd never heard an
> explanation of why we see stuff rated at 240 VAC when most of our
> homes seem to come standard with 220 VAC and 115VAC.
>
> I've heard 120VAC bandied about and figure those two legs make up the
> 240VAC.
>
> I told hime that I knew where to post this question having seen days
> of posts on similar Electrical (S.O.T. - somewhat off topic) posts
> with some folks who appeared to know their stuff providing links to
> references and resources.
>
>
> So, if one og those folks is reading this, please respond and tell me
> what gives with the 220 vs. 240 VAC. Can we ignore the minor
> difference and usethese motors on "220" or "240?"
>
> FYI - The motor in question did not indicate it was a dual 120/240
> voltage motor - it just said 240!
>
> Thanks for reading. Please reply to author.

Hook it up and start making sawdust, there is no problem.

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

sD

[email protected] (Doug Miller)

in reply to Hoosierpopi on 01/07/2010 12:21 PM

01/07/2010 8:44 PM

In article <[email protected]>, Hoosierpopi <[email protected]> wrote:
>I was asked today about a motor stamped 240VAC. I kept saying 220
>volts and my neighbor would interupt and remind me it said 240 VAC.
>
>I told hm that I didn't think it mattered

True.

>and that I'd never heard an
>explanation of why we see stuff rated at 240 VAC when most of our
>homes seem to come standard with 220 VAC and 115VAC.

Because our homes *don't* "come standard" with 220 and 115 VAC. It's at least
240/120 now. It never was 220/115 -- the lower voltage is always half the
higher voltage. Measure what's coming in at your service entrance panel.
Between the two hot legs, you'll see somewhere between 240 and 250; from
either hot leg to ground, half that.
>
>I've heard 120VAC bandied about and figure those two legs make up the
>240VAC.

Exactly.
[...]
>So, if one og those folks is reading this, please respond and tell me
>what gives with the 220 vs. 240 VAC. Can we ignore the minor
>difference and usethese motors on "220" or "240?"

Yes.
>
>FYI - The motor in question did not indicate it was a dual 120/240
>voltage motor - it just said 240!

That means it can run only on 240VAC. Some motors can run on either voltage,
but you have to change the position of a jumper wire to make the change. This
one can't.
>
>Thanks for reading. Please reply to author.

dn

dpb

in reply to Hoosierpopi on 01/07/2010 12:21 PM

01/07/2010 4:16 PM

Hoosierpopi wrote:
> I was asked today about a motor stamped 240VAC. I kept saying 220
> volts and my neighbor would interupt and remind me it said 240 VAC.
>
> I told hm that I didn't think it mattered and that I'd never heard an
> explanation of why we see stuff rated at 240 VAC when most of our
> homes seem to come standard with 220 VAC and 115VAC.
...

In the US and Canada, national standards (NERC www.nerc.com) specify
that the nominal voltage at the source should be 120 V +/-5%.

Historically 110, 115 and 117 volts have been used at different times
and places in North America. Owing to the previous usage, main power is
still sometimes spoken of as 110; however, 120 is the present nominal
voltage (US).

BTW, the 110 V came from Edison; it was the compromise between the
voltage at which initial light bulb filaments could be made to last
sufficiently long (about 100 V) and the need for higher voltages for
distribution and lower current demands. Hence, initially generation was
at nominal 110V allowing for some 10 V distribution voltage drop to user.

As surmised, in the US the lower voltage is one side of the "hot" to
neutral and so is, indeed, precisely one-half of the greater.

--

GS

Gordon Shumway

in reply to Hoosierpopi on 01/07/2010 12:21 PM

01/07/2010 8:00 PM

On Thu, 1 Jul 2010 18:37:44 -0400, "Lee Michaels"
<leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote:

>Many years ago, I went to electronics school. The guys there would have
>howled at this bit of lunacy.
>
>I am trying figure out if you are really funny or just totally disturbed.
>Did you write this or get it from someplace?

I am probably a little of both. I had this given to me about 25 years
ago shortly after I was given the responsibility for the wiring on
some of the wheel loaders we designed at Caterpillar. I have enjoyed
sharing that lunacy with many people since then.

GS

Gordon Shumway

in reply to Hoosierpopi on 01/07/2010 12:21 PM

01/07/2010 5:02 PM

On Thu, 1 Jul 2010 12:21:21 -0700 (PDT), Hoosierpopi
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I was asked today about a motor stamped 240VAC. I kept saying 220
>volts and my neighbor would interupt and remind me it said 240 VAC.
>
>I told hm that I didn't think it mattered and that I'd never heard an
>explanation of why we see stuff rated at 240 VAC when most of our
>homes seem to come standard with 220 VAC and 115VAC.
>
>I've heard 120VAC bandied about and figure those two legs make up the
>240VAC.
>
>I told hime that I knew where to post this question having seen days
>of posts on similar Electrical (S.O.T. - somewhat off topic) posts
>with some folks who appeared to know their stuff providing links to
>references and resources.
>
>
>So, if one og those folks is reading this, please respond and tell me
>what gives with the 220 vs. 240 VAC. Can we ignore the minor
>difference and usethese motors on "220" or "240?"
>
>FYI - The motor in question did not indicate it was a dual 120/240
>voltage motor - it just said 240!
>
>Thanks for reading. Please reply to author.

I'll do my best to simplify the answer.


I think its time for me to explain about 240 current and why it is so
different from 120 volt service. First of all, it's twice as big.
Secondly, it'll shock you more. Outside of that, 240 is really two
120 volt lines coming to your house from different parts of the globe.
The up and down 120 comes from the northern hemisphere, and the down
and up version comes from below the equator.

Without trying to get technical, it all boils down to the direction
water flows when it goes down the drain. In the top of the earth, it
goes clockwise, while on the bottom of the earth it goes counter
clockwise. Since most electricity is made from hydro dams, the
clockwise flow gives you an up and down sine wave, while the
counterclockwise version gives you a down and up sine wave. Between
the two, you have 240 volts, while either individual side only gives
you 120 volts.

This is particularly important to know when buying power tools --
which side of the globe did they come from? If you get an Australian
saw, for instance, it will turn backwards if connected to a US
generated 120 volt source. Sure, you can buy backwards blades for it,
but that is an unnecessary burden. Other appliances, like toasters
cannot be converted from Australian electricity to American
electricity. I knew one person who bought an Australian toaster by
mistake and it froze the slices of bread she put in it.

If you wire your shop with 240 and accidentally get two US-generated
120 volt lines run in by accident, you can get 240 by using a trick I
learned from an old electrician. Just put each source into its own
fuse box and then turn one of the boxes upside down. That'll invert
one of the two up and down sine waves to down and up, giving you 240.
DO NOT just turn the box sideways, since that'll give you 165 volts
and you'll be limited to just using Canadian tools with it.

kk

in reply to Hoosierpopi on 01/07/2010 12:21 PM

03/07/2010 12:32 AM

On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 23:42:33 -0400, "Josepi" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Run it through a thermostat and set it at 60 degrees.

Except that it needs to be 120 degrees. ...too hot for Canuckistanis.


>"Puckdropper" <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>Mount a 3rd breaker box on a wall that intersects with the current wall at
>90 degrees.
>
>Puckdropper
>
>
>marc rosen <[email protected]> wrote in news:3d19f9c2-c22b-4cd0-9fa4-
>[email protected]:
>
>> On Jul 1, 6:02 pm, Gordon Shumway <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 1 Jul 2010 12:21:21 -0700 (PDT), Hoosierpopi
>> Gordon,
>> You explanation makes perfect sense but it does not explain where we
>> would get a third pahse from if we need 3 phase power. Any ideas?
>> Marc
>
>
>

JJ

"Josepi"

in reply to Hoosierpopi on 01/07/2010 12:21 PM

01/07/2010 6:19 PM

This is not correct.

A sideways panel will give you a cosine waveform instead of a sine wave,

Try it! It works in my chargers to desulphate my battery plates.

A leftie for Australia brought some right handed tools with him and they
work just fine in N.America.
His handsaw has all it's teeth forward and he can't seem to get it to work
here, but the power tools are fine.



"Gordon Shumway" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
If you wire your shop with 240 and accidentally get two US-generated
120 volt lines run in by accident, you can get 240 by using a trick I
learned from an old electrician. Just put each source into its own
fuse box and then turn one of the boxes upside down. That'll invert
one of the two up and down sine waves to down and up, giving you 240.
DO NOT just turn the box sideways, since that'll give you 165 volts
and you'll be limited to just using Canadian tools with it.

JJ

"Josepi"

in reply to Hoosierpopi on 01/07/2010 12:21 PM

01/07/2010 5:04 PM

Yes. Same basic voltage, different country and/or system.

In N.America we get equipment labeled 110/220 then 115/230, 117.5 vac and
now 120/240
The same thing applied to 550v 575 and now 600v industrial systems

120/240 +/-10% was always the accepted standard for utilities in the last 40
years. The 220 is a European standard, perhaps Mexico, USA, poorer and
españa based countries.

At this point they are all interchangable, mostly. The voltage difference
will only make synchronous motors draw a little less current and make the
power factor worse. On a residential Whr meter this won't make any
difference to the bill.




"Hoosierpopi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
I was asked today about a motor stamped 240VAC. I kept saying 220
volts and my neighbor would interupt and remind me it said 240 VAC.

I told hm that I didn't think it mattered and that I'd never heard an
explanation of why we see stuff rated at 240 VAC when most of our
homes seem to come standard with 220 VAC and 115VAC.

I've heard 120VAC bandied about and figure those two legs make up the
240VAC.

I told hime that I knew where to post this question having seen days
of posts on similar Electrical (S.O.T. - somewhat off topic) posts
with some folks who appeared to know their stuff providing links to
references and resources.


So, if one og those folks is reading this, please respond and tell me
what gives with the 220 vs. 240 VAC. Can we ignore the minor
difference and usethese motors on "220" or "240?"

FYI - The motor in question did not indicate it was a dual 120/240
voltage motor - it just said 240!

Thanks for reading. Please reply to author.

GS

Gordon Shumway

in reply to Hoosierpopi on 01/07/2010 12:21 PM

03/07/2010 8:09 AM

On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 18:59:12 -0700 (PDT), marc rosen <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Jul 1, 6:02 pm, Gordon Shumway <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Thu, 1 Jul 2010 12:21:21 -0700 (PDT), Hoosierpopi
>Gordon,
>You explanation makes perfect sense but it does not explain where we
>would get a third pahse from if we need 3 phase power. Any ideas?
> Marc

I thought it was intuitive that you would use an up and down 120 from
the northern hemisphere, a down and up version from below the equator
plus one more (from either hemisphere) as long as you don't activate
it on a Tuesday. Does that explain it better?


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