I bid on (and won) a book that cost, with shipping, $6.45. I sent
payment via PayPal the day after the auction ended, and later that
day, $3.45 was returned to my credit card. I sent the seller an email
yesterday asking him what the story was, and haven't heard back from
him.
On my My Eb*y page, I accidentally deleted the item before I could
leave feedback. I can still reference the item number for feedback,
but how long can I do that? Also, how do I get my three bucks back?
Am I overreacting? As a relative novice to online auctions, is there
some intricacy that I overlooked? I don't want to badmouth the guy if
he doesn't have it coming.
Thanks, y'all.
-Phil Crow
"Dave Mundt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Greetings and Salutations...
>
> On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 23:52:38 +0800, Old Nick <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 20:48:18 -0700, Larry Jaques
> ><novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> vaguely proposed a theory
> >......and in reply I say!:
> >
> > remove ns from my header address to reply via email
> >
> >>She broke
> >>Ebay's rule about vengeance feedback. <sigh>
> >
> >Which is? Sorry. I had a crap deal from a (commercial, not private)
> >vendor. I posted facts about equipt failure, and was branded an
> >"unsatisfiable customer".
> >
> Yea, actually, Ebay has NO rules about "vengeance feedback".
> they supposedly have this "hands off policy" about feedback that means
> that they have no responsiblity for its content. Of course, like
> ignoring it when someone farts in church, this is a polite fiction,
> because they DO have the power to remove and edit feedback, and, some
> primitive guidelines as to what sort of speech is NOT allowed - and
> they DO use those powers.
>
eBay did/does have a policy prohibiting "vengence feedback". And their
feedback policy is
pure, 100% BS. My only negative was from someone the entire
rec.crafts.metalworking group
knows and avoids (they spent a couple of years making a game out of spotting
his latest eBay
user name...he was kicked off under at least 15 different names) and it was
after I filed a mail fraud
complaint AND WON IT. eBay kicked the user off the group but left his
retalitory feedback.
Strangely enough, another user I had dealt with (without any problems) who
left me positive
feedback was kicked off by eBay and his positive feedback was changed to
"neutral" by eBay.
So, take eBay feedback with MANY grains of salt as it isn't worth the bits
wasted on it.
> >This was discussed recently. Most vendors will not post feedback until
> >the buyer does. I post neg feedback, so does the vendor. I have no
> >further fecirse to stating my views. Where does "vengeance" start?
>
> Yea, I have posted some essays both here and in the feedback
> forum on Ebay (which by the by, is worth reading, as a LOT of folks
> are frustrated by the current way feedback is handled). I have gotten
> some serious arguments from sellers both here and there because of
> the changes I advocate in the feedback system, but, most of their
> arguments are based on a self-serving and incorrect interpretation of
> what the feedback system was designed to do, and how it works.
> DAGS to find my suggested changes to the system. I, for one,
> thought it was a reasonable change, and, I have gotten a number of
> replies indicating that OTHERS think so too.
> Now...as for being screwed on Ebay... It depends on how much
> of your life you are willing to burn for $4 or so. At least, you
> can file a complaint with Ebay against the vendor. If you want to
> push it a bit further, you can file a fraud complaint with the State
> Attorney General's office in the state where the vendor lives.
> However, for that amount I can promise that the BEST you will get is
> a polite letter from the bureaucrats, saying that you are welcome to
> show up in their courts, with a lawyer, and pursue the matter further.
> It does happen now and again, and ranges from never getting
> anything, to getting the totally wrong thing, to finding that what
> you got had carefully concealed flaws. As an example, I just bought
> a "network card and Postscript ROM for HP 3si/4si printer". Granted
> I got it pretty cheaply. However, alas, the network card was not
> the Jet Direct card I thought it was, and, the Postscript rom will
> ONLY work in a 4SI printer. My fault, though, as I did not check
> things out QUITE enough. However, the description given by the
> vendor DID say it was for the two printers (I have a 3SI I wanted to
> use the ROM in) and, the picture looked like a jetdirect card, but
> the name was in enough shadow that I could not see that it was a
> JetXPrint card (which would "work" but needed special setup software
> that was not included). I did send the vendor a couple of testy
> messages, though, suggesting that the next person might not be
> quite so willing to allow him to avoid being dinged with a negative.
> "Let the buyer beware" is VERY true on Ebay as well as
> in many transactions in our lives. DO the best you can, and expect
> to get burned now and again.
> Regards
> Dave Mundt
>
On 16 Aug 2004 17:58:29 -0700, Phil Crow <[email protected]> wrote:
> I bid on (and won) a book that cost, with shipping, $6.45. I sent
> payment via PayPal the day after the auction ended, and later that
> day, $3.45 was returned to my credit card. I sent the seller an email
> yesterday asking him what the story was, and haven't heard back from
> him.
Contact paypal, and eBay. Probably in that order. Contact info is
prominently displayed on each site.
> On my My Eb*y page, I accidentally deleted the item before I could
> leave feedback. I can still reference the item number for feedback,
> but how long can I do that? Also, how do I get my three bucks back?
You can search completed items by description, also PayPal will have
the item number recorded for that payment.
> Am I overreacting? As a relative novice to online auctions, is there
> some intricacy that I overlooked? I don't want to badmouth the guy if
> he doesn't have it coming.
If he cheated you out of $3.20, he's probably cheating others out of
money too. Do all of the rest of us a favor and report him to eBay
and PayPal.
Dave Hinz
Greetings and Salutations...
On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 23:52:38 +0800, Old Nick <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 20:48:18 -0700, Larry Jaques
><novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> vaguely proposed a theory
>......and in reply I say!:
>
> remove ns from my header address to reply via email
>
>>She broke
>>Ebay's rule about vengeance feedback. <sigh>
>
>Which is? Sorry. I had a crap deal from a (commercial, not private)
>vendor. I posted facts about equipt failure, and was branded an
>"unsatisfiable customer".
>
Yea, actually, Ebay has NO rules about "vengeance feedback".
they supposedly have this "hands off policy" about feedback that means
that they have no responsiblity for its content. Of course, like
ignoring it when someone farts in church, this is a polite fiction,
because they DO have the power to remove and edit feedback, and, some
primitive guidelines as to what sort of speech is NOT allowed - and
they DO use those powers.
>This was discussed recently. Most vendors will not post feedback until
>the buyer does. I post neg feedback, so does the vendor. I have no
>further fecirse to stating my views. Where does "vengeance" start?
Yea, I have posted some essays both here and in the feedback
forum on Ebay (which by the by, is worth reading, as a LOT of folks
are frustrated by the current way feedback is handled). I have gotten
some serious arguments from sellers both here and there because of
the changes I advocate in the feedback system, but, most of their
arguments are based on a self-serving and incorrect interpretation of
what the feedback system was designed to do, and how it works.
DAGS to find my suggested changes to the system. I, for one,
thought it was a reasonable change, and, I have gotten a number of
replies indicating that OTHERS think so too.
Now...as for being screwed on Ebay... It depends on how much
of your life you are willing to burn for $4 or so. At least, you
can file a complaint with Ebay against the vendor. If you want to
push it a bit further, you can file a fraud complaint with the State
Attorney General's office in the state where the vendor lives.
However, for that amount I can promise that the BEST you will get is
a polite letter from the bureaucrats, saying that you are welcome to
show up in their courts, with a lawyer, and pursue the matter further.
It does happen now and again, and ranges from never getting
anything, to getting the totally wrong thing, to finding that what
you got had carefully concealed flaws. As an example, I just bought
a "network card and Postscript ROM for HP 3si/4si printer". Granted
I got it pretty cheaply. However, alas, the network card was not
the Jet Direct card I thought it was, and, the Postscript rom will
ONLY work in a 4SI printer. My fault, though, as I did not check
things out QUITE enough. However, the description given by the
vendor DID say it was for the two printers (I have a 3SI I wanted to
use the ROM in) and, the picture looked like a jetdirect card, but
the name was in enough shadow that I could not see that it was a
JetXPrint card (which would "work" but needed special setup software
that was not included). I did send the vendor a couple of testy
messages, though, suggesting that the next person might not be
quite so willing to allow him to avoid being dinged with a negative.
"Let the buyer beware" is VERY true on Ebay as well as
in many transactions in our lives. DO the best you can, and expect
to get burned now and again.
Regards
Dave Mundt
On 16 Aug 2004 17:58:29 -0700, [email protected] (Phil Crow)
wrote:
>I bid on (and won) a book that cost, with shipping, $6.45. I sent
>payment via PayPal the day after the auction ended, and later that
>day, $3.45 was returned to my credit card. I sent the seller an email
>yesterday asking him what the story was, and haven't heard back from
>him.
>
How long has it been since the auction ended? Some people may not
check email daily or he/she could be out of town.
>On my My Eb*y page, I accidentally deleted the item before I could
>leave feedback. I can still reference the item number for feedback,
>but how long can I do that? Also, how do I get my three bucks back?
>
You can search by bidder including completed items and locate the item
then save to favorites. You can reference and leave feedback for 90
days or more so there is really no rush.
>Am I overreacting? As a relative novice to online auctions, is there
>some intricacy that I overlooked? I don't want to badmouth the guy if
>he doesn't have it coming.
>
Not necessarily. It may be only three bucks but eBay is based on trust
and a dishonest seller may be screwing a large number of buyers. On
the other hand, I don't know why he would only keep part of the money
and return the rest so I would guess that there is some explanation
for this. I'd give him a day or so to reply then email him again - the
first one may not have gone through or may have been deleted by
mistake. If he still doesn't respond, read up on eBays and PayPals
policy for dispute resolution and notify both - they will notify the
seller. You have plenty of time so don't rush and do something you may
regret - negative feedback is detrimental and eBay won't remove it if
you post in error. Good luck and let us know how it comes out.
>Thanks, y'all.
>
>-Phil Crow
On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:39:30 -0700, Larry Jaques
<novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email
Replying to Dave and Larry....
>>>This was discussed recently. Most vendors will not post feedback until
>>>the buyer does. I post neg feedback, so does the vendor. I have no
>>>further fecirse to stating my views. Where does "vengeance" start?
>
>At the vendor's response to a negative IF the
>buyer's response was warranted. But it's only the
>bad vendors who come back with negatives. Good guys
>come back with an "I'm sorry and I wish you'd contacted
>me first. I'll fix that immediately." It's absolutely
>in their best interest.
I had already been through the p4rocess of returning the goods. They
were "inspected" and returned to me. I was not about to throw away
more postage costs, by trying again.
It may be sensible, but there seems to be a _lot_ of vengeance
feedback by vendors. It almost seems standard.
It's a pity Ebay does not take more care of its customers. I did one
deal there that was really worthwhile, and the vendor and I patted
backs publicly and privately. It worked, we were both happy. Then the
next two went sour, and there's nothing I can do as far as Ebay goes.
As you said, Dave, I could go to the authorities, but they don;t give
a damn, unless you want to do the job for them.
>
>
>> DAGS to find my suggested changes to the system. I, for one,
>>thought it was a reasonable change, and, I have gotten a number of
>>replies indicating that OTHERS think so too.
Will HAL.
*****************************************************
Marriage. Where two people decide to get together so
that neither of them can do what they want to because
of the other one.
[email protected] (Phil Crow) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Am I overreacting? As a relative novice to online auctions, is there
> some intricacy that I overlooked? I don't want to badmouth the guy if
> he doesn't have it coming.
Paypal's dispute resolution process is very clearly explained on their
website. I like to use paypal for payment because I get automatic
protection for value up to $500. If you follow the process, it could
ultimately lead to Paypal covering your loss, instead of the seller.
Many legitimate sellers quake in their boots when you mention "Paypal
dispute resolution process". They know its in their best interest to
play fair, rather than chance the bad ratings and possibly getting
kicked off ebay.
Bob
"Phil Crow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I bid on (and won) a book that cost, with shipping, $6.45. I sent
> payment via PayPal the day after the auction ended, and later that
> day, $3.45 was returned to my credit card. I sent the seller an email
> yesterday asking him what the story was, and haven't heard back from
> him.
>
> On my My Eb*y page, I accidentally deleted the item before I could
> leave feedback. I can still reference the item number for feedback,
> but how long can I do that? Also, how do I get my three bucks back?
>
> Am I overreacting? As a relative novice to online auctions, is there
> some intricacy that I overlooked? I don't want to badmouth the guy if
> he doesn't have it coming.
>
> Thanks, y'all.
>
> -Phil Crow
Give him a few days to get back to you first... was the book or the shipping
$3.45?
If the shipping, perhaps he is shipping it at no cost to you...right, & pigs
might fly!
Main thing...over only $6.45...ahem, now $3.00 don't get excited yet, wait &
see what he says, I had an old lady in England Refund me over half the price
of an item & the shipping because the dear soul only wanted to get a certain
amount for an old cartoon book of her grandsons & felt I had paid way too
much...truth is it was worth five times what I paid to me. :-)
Good luck
--
© Jon Down ®
http://www.stores.ebay.com/jdpowertoolcanada
"You cannot make someone love you.
All you can do is stalk them and hope they panic and give in."
>
> If he cheated you out of $3.20, he's probably cheating others out of
> money too. Do all of the rest of us a favor and report him to eBay
> and PayPal.
>
Well, that just doesn't make sense. Why would he cheat him out of $3.00,
but not the whole $6.45? It has to be a mistake of some kind. Lots of
people don't read their email daily.
Thanks everybody, for the help.
I've been out of touch since last Wed (BIL's 21st birthday--in New
Orleans; a good time was had by all) but I sent the guy another email
today and hope to hear back soon. If that yields nothing after a few
days, it's on to Ebay and PayPal.
Larry, I got no notice from Ebay or the seller, just PayPal. That's
why the spidey-sense started tingling. Also, you're right--I wasn't
paying all that much attention, but my three bucks is my three bucks.
Anyway, 'preciate the assist.
-Phil Crow
On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 23:52:38 +0800, Old Nick <[email protected]>
vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email
Shit! Even _I_ have no idea where "fecirse" came from! And I was
sober! :-<
Svyis;;u. O tr,r,nrt s dyptu snpiy s yu[ody ejp ypivj=yu[rf s ejp;r
;ryyrt pmr lru yp yjr tohjy! >H?
>further fecirse to stating my views. Where does "vengeance" start?
*****************************************************
Marriage. Where two people decide to get together so
that neither of them can do what they want to because
of the other one.
On 16 Aug 2004 17:58:29 -0700, [email protected] (Phil Crow)
calmly ranted:
>I bid on (and won) a book that cost, with shipping, $6.45. I sent
>payment via PayPal the day after the auction ended, and later that
>day, $3.45 was returned to my credit card. I sent the seller an email
>yesterday asking him what the story was, and haven't heard back from
>him.
>
>On my My Eb*y page, I accidentally deleted the item before I could
>leave feedback. I can still reference the item number for feedback,
>but how long can I do that? Also, how do I get my three bucks back?
>
>Am I overreacting? As a relative novice to online auctions, is there
>some intricacy that I overlooked? I don't want to badmouth the guy if
>he doesn't have it coming.
I get email notices from the seller, Ebay, and Paypal when
I win something, Phil. Look at one of those. If you don't
have any of those, you're probably SOL. It hurts when you
don't pay attention, huh?
My worst experience was when a lady sent me a Stanley #4
with a broken part. To her, a two-piece tote was "crack
in handle" and she had bad enough photography to hide it.
She also "forgot" to ship it for a week and gave me a bad
feedback (my only one) for calling her on it. She broke
Ebay's rule about vengeance feedback. <sigh>
--============================================--
Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional.
---
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 18:04:22 GMT, [email protected] (Dave Mundt) calmly
ranted:
> Yea, actually, Ebay has NO rules about "vengeance feedback".
Not any more, evidently. They used to have those specific words
in their feedback policy overview. It probably wasn't PC, eh?
<sigh>
>they supposedly have this "hands off policy" about feedback that means
>that they have no responsiblity for its content. Of course, like
>ignoring it when someone farts in church, this is a polite fiction,
>because they DO have the power to remove and edit feedback, and, some
>primitive guidelines as to what sort of speech is NOT allowed - and
>they DO use those powers.
>
>>This was discussed recently. Most vendors will not post feedback until
>>the buyer does. I post neg feedback, so does the vendor. I have no
>>further fecirse to stating my views. Where does "vengeance" start?
At the vendor's response to a negative IF the
buyer's response was warranted. But it's only the
bad vendors who come back with negatives. Good guys
come back with an "I'm sorry and I wish you'd contacted
me first. I'll fix that immediately." It's absolutely
in their best interest.
> DAGS to find my suggested changes to the system. I, for one,
>thought it was a reasonable change, and, I have gotten a number of
>replies indicating that OTHERS think so too.
I read those and agreed, IIRC.
> "Let the buyer beware" is VERY true on Ebay as well as
>in many transactions in our lives. DO the best you can, and expect
>to get burned now and again.
Right, and hope it's minor, as with all things negative.
--============================================--
Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional.
---
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 20:48:18 -0700, Larry Jaques
<novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email
>She broke
>Ebay's rule about vengeance feedback. <sigh>
Which is? Sorry. I had a crap deal from a (commercial, not private)
vendor. I posted facts about equipt failure, and was branded an
"unsatisfiable customer".
This was discussed recently. Most vendors will not post feedback until
the buyer does. I post neg feedback, so does the vendor. I have no
further fecirse to stating my views. Where does "vengeance" start?
*****************************************************
Marriage. Where two people decide to get together so
that neither of them can do what they want to because
of the other one.