Wood hardeners: epoxy vs. CA vs. minwax hardener vs. Polyall etc...

blueman wrote:
> I am looking for a wood hardener to reinforce shelf pin holes (drilled
> in 3/4" plywood) so that they don't tearout under load (note that I am also using shelf pin sleeves).
>
> For this application, I was wondering what would be the best choice:
> - Thin CA (any brand recommendations?)
> - Thin epoxy
> - Minwax wood hardener
> - Polyall
> - other?
>
> My thought is that a glue like CA or epoxy might be best because in
> addition to hardening the wood they would also bond the shelf sleeve
> to the hole and further lock it all together.
>
> Any suggestions on what might be best?

A slow cured 2 part epoxy resin is much more robust than cured
cyanoacrylate resins. The CA has the lower viscosity advantage, but to
overcome that difference, it is easy to warm the wood with a heat gun
to maybe 120-130 F and the epoxy will flow and penetrate very nicely.
This trick works especially well on old weathered wood restoration
projects. HTH

Joe

Joe wrote:
> blueman wrote:
> > I am looking for a wood hardener to reinforce shelf pin holes (drilled
> > in 3/4" plywood) so that they don't tearout under load (note that I am also using shelf pin sleeves).
> >
> > For this application, I was wondering what would be the best choice:
> > - Thin CA (any brand recommendations?)
> > - Thin epoxy
> > - Minwax wood hardener
> > - Polyall
> > - other?
> >
> > My thought is that a glue like CA or epoxy might be best because in
> > addition to hardening the wood they would also bond the shelf sleeve
> > to the hole and further lock it all together.
> >
> > Any suggestions on what might be best?
>
> A slow cured 2 part epoxy resin is much more robust than cured
> cyanoacrylate resins. The CA has the lower viscosity advantage, but to
> overcome that difference, it is easy to warm the wood with a heat gun
> to maybe 120-130 F and the epoxy will flow and penetrate very nicely.
> This trick works especially well on old weathered wood restoration
> projects. HTH
>
> Joe


I use LiquidWood epoxy for wood repair & hardening as well

they also make a structural paste WoodEpox

Liquid wood will stay good for years if kept in tightly sealed metal
containers....I have some that is over 20 years old & still hardens
when mixed up. I don't usethe old stuff for critical applications or
for outside use (I use new stuff for that) I do still use it.

available from http://abatron.com


http://abatron.com/cgi-bin/shop/index.cgi?cart_id=1445212.28174&pid=32

if you do you the stuff, mix it up & let it sit in the mix cup for ~30
minutes, this "inductin period" will get the reaction going so that
when you let it seep into the wood (thin layers slow down the cure
process) it will "kick" in a reasonable amount of time. Heat gun it at
~120 to 150F & it will kick it an hour or so.

cheers
Bob

blueman wrote:
> I am looking for a wood hardener to reinforce shelf pin holes
> (drilled in 3/4" plywood) so that they don't tearout under load (note
> that I am also using shelf pin sleeves).

Assuming this is the same shelf, you said earlier that there was no
tearout with 200lbs. Why would you need to reinforce it?

Chris

blueman wrote:
> Chris Friesen <[email protected]> writes:

>>Assuming this is the same shelf, you said earlier that there was no
>>tearout with 200lbs. Why would you need to reinforce it?

> Belt & suspenders...
> My concern is that over many years, I may still get tearout due to
> wear-and-tear and abuse.

Fair enough. I'm partial to overkill as well.

> I have tested the setup using CA reinforced holes up to 400 lbs without
> tearout. Since CA is relatively expensive, this got me to wondering
> whether epoxy or minwax harderner would be equivalent or even better
> alternatives.

Epoxy would probably be equivalent, if not better. CA can be brittle.
Generally the longer cure epoxies are stronger than the 5-minute stuff.

Chris

blueman wrote:
> B A R R Y <[email protected]> writes:
>> Zap.
>
> 2 clarifications:
> 1. Zap seems to be 2X the cost of some other thin CA brands. Is it
> worth the cost and if so, what makes it better?

I my experience, it's been consistently fresher, in turn providing
consistent performance.

> 2. Are you saying Zap (and CA in general) is better than expoxy and
> MinWax

Yes. I rarely prefer Minwax products for anything, and I don't think
epoxy will penetrate the wood and toughen it up.

Chris Friesen <[email protected]> writes:
> blueman wrote:
> > I am looking for a wood hardener to reinforce shelf pin holes
> > (drilled in 3/4" plywood) so that they don't tearout under load (note
> > that I am also using shelf pin sleeves).
>
> Assuming this is the same shelf, you said earlier that there was no
> tearout with 200lbs. Why would you need to reinforce it?
>
> Chris

Belt & suspenders...
My concern is that over many years, I may still get tearout due to
wear-and-tear and abuse.

I have tested the setup using CA reinforced holes up to 400 lbs without
tearout. Since CA is relatively expensive, this got me to wondering
whether epoxy or minwax harderner would be equivalent or even better
alternatives.

B A R R Y <[email protected]> writes:
> blueman wrote:
> > I am looking for a wood hardener to reinforce shelf pin holes (drilled
> > in 3/4" plywood) so that they don't tearout under load (note that I am also using shelf pin sleeves).
> > For this application, I was wondering what would be the best choice:
> > - Thin CA (any brand recommendations?)
>
> Zap.

2 clarifications:
1. Zap seems to be 2X the cost of some other thin CA brands. Is it
worth the cost and if so, what makes it better?

2. Are you saying Zap (and CA in general) is better than expoxy and
MinWax or are you just saying that if you use CA, then go with Zap?

Thanks!

blueman wrote:
> I am looking for a wood hardener to reinforce shelf pin holes (drilled
> in 3/4" plywood) so that they don't tearout under load (note that I am also using shelf pin sleeves).
>
> For this application, I was wondering what would be the best choice:
> - Thin CA (any brand recommendations?)

Zap.