Red Oak T&G Flooring Repair Question.

On May 5, 12:26=A0pm, Sonny <[email protected]> wrote:
> You're not likely to have as severe expansion/contraction issues, if
> any, as the gaps are on the ends of the boards. =A0Boards expand and
> contract across the face of boards, not so much along the length of
> boards. =A03/16" isn't much at all.
>
> Another alternative is to dye some jute rope/twine and pack it into
> the gaps. =A0Jute rope/twine is stainable, accepts a finish,
> compressable..... and it will prevent dirt from getting into the gap,
> as opposed to if the gaps were left open. =A0If the rope/twine eases
> out, later, just press it back in. =A0If this approach would fail beyond
> your preference, you could always resort to filling the gaps with wood
> or filler, later, ie. nothing lost in trying the rope. =A0Having to
> refinishing these spots, later, if need be, would amount to a touch-up
> job, and not compromise your present refinishing (of the whole), now.

I've read about the rope infill, but I've never done it or even seen
it up close. How well does it blend in to the floor? Does it end up
being a 'feature' strip thing, where you really would notice if every
gap didn't have the rope infill, or can you just use it here and
there?

R

I would cut red oak to insert into those gaps. That size piece
shouldn't be so obvious or out of place, especially if you're going to
stain it. It would be less likely to pop out, crumble, etc. as a
filler may.

If you go the filler route, I would suggest staining first, then get a
filler whose color matches. You may get a better match, rather than
trying to stain a filler. Even though the filler is stainable, it may
not stain the same as the adjacent wood will.

Sonny

On May 6, 1:44=A0pm, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> As far as tying things down goes, I got a package of four ratchet tie
> downs a while back that also double as strap clamps, and work better
> than anything that I can do with twine.

So if you want to tie the ends of a bundle of 16' trim pieces together
you use a ratchet strap? Ratchet straps have their place and so does
twine.

R

On 5/5/2011 8:43 AM, RicodJour wrote:
> On May 5, 9:01 am, Sonny<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> I would cut red oak to insert into those gaps. That size piece
>> shouldn't be so obvious or out of place, especially if you're going to
>> stain it. It would be less likely to pop out, crumble, etc. as a
>> filler may.
>
> An alternative to cutting is to use red oak edgebanding that doesn't
> have adhesive on it.
>
> There's also the question of climate and when and where those 3/64"
> gaps appear. Wood strip floors are made up of relatively narrow
> strips to allow for the seasonal movement of the wood. The gaps are
> necessary and unavoidable on an expanse of floor unless you have
> complete control of the temperature and humidity throughout the year.
> If you fill the gaps while the wood is bone dry the wood won't simply
> decide to not swell up as the more humid weather rolls around. It
> will still expand and the filler will crumble and/or the wood will
> crush as the wood expands. When it shrinks back down the gap will be
> pretty much back to where it started and/or you will have little bits
> of filler being sucked up by the vacuum.
>
> R

That is exactly the case. Rico is right, and, if you fill all those
gaps and the floorboards do expand, they can buckle and lift. If you do
fill, a filler that will crumble and fall out is your best protection
against damaging your floor.

--
Robert Allison
New Braunfels, TX

Edward Hennessey wrote:

> Before I scurry around the world, do you
> have any idea what kind of metropolitan
> store would have jute? Is it sold under any
> brand names that I might walk by unknowing?

1. Go to Home Depot or Lowes
2. Go outside to where the lumber pickup area is
3. Find the ball of beige/light brown twine that customers use to tie down
stuff
4. Cut off what you need

If the twine is very light -almost white - , ignore it, it is sisal, and go
inside to buy the jute unless you like the sisal color; I'd think it would
work for packing too.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

RicodJour wrote:
> On May 6, 9:27 am, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> 1. Go to Home Depot or Lowes
>> 2. Go outside to where the lumber pickup area is
>> 3. Find the ball of beige/light brown twine that customers use to
>> tie down stuff
>> 4. Cut off what you need
>>
>> If the twine is very light -almost white - , ignore it, it is sisal,
>> and go inside to buy the jute unless you like the sisal color; I'd
>> think it would work for packing too.
>
> I wish they'd go back to the jute. Around here the home centers
> haven't had anything but poly twine in years. Too much plastic - it
> doesn't get recycled and it won't biodegrade.

Yeah, I hate that too. Unfortunately, we live in the Age of Plastic.

A while back I wanted a spool of marline (tarred hemp) so I hied myself off
to the marine store. All they had was some sort of twine - might have been
plastic, might have been cotton, don't recall - smeared with beeswax; had to
go online to get real marline.



--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On May 6, 9:27=A0am, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> 1. Go to Home Depot or Lowes
> 2. Go outside to where the lumber pickup area is
> 3. Find the ball of beige/light brown twine that customers use to tie dow=
n
> stuff
> 4. Cut off what you need
>
> If the twine is very light -almost white - , ignore it, it is sisal, and =
go
> inside to buy the jute unless you like the sisal color; I'd think it woul=
d
> work for packing too.

I wish they'd go back to the jute. Around here the home centers
haven't had anything but poly twine in years. Too much plastic - it
doesn't get recycled and it won't biodegrade.

R

"Sonny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I would cut red oak to insert into those gaps. That size piece
> shouldn't be so obvious or out of place, especially if you're going
> to
> stain it. It would be less likely to pop out, crumble, etc. as a
> filler may.
>
> If you go the filler route, I would suggest staining first, then get
> a
> filler whose color matches. You may get a better match, rather than
> trying to stain a filler. Even though the filler is stainable, it
> may
> not stain the same as the adjacent wood will.
>
> Sonny

Sonny:

Thanks, as usual, for the help. You, Rico and Robert
will have the saw making wood.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

On May 5, 9:01=A0am, Sonny <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I would cut red oak to insert into those gaps. =A0That size piece
> shouldn't be so obvious or out of place, especially if you're going to
> stain it. =A0It would be less likely to pop out, crumble, etc. as a
> filler may.

An alternative to cutting is to use red oak edgebanding that doesn't
have adhesive on it.

There's also the question of climate and when and where those 3/64"
gaps appear. Wood strip floors are made up of relatively narrow
strips to allow for the seasonal movement of the wood. The gaps are
necessary and unavoidable on an expanse of floor unless you have
complete control of the temperature and humidity throughout the year.
If you fill the gaps while the wood is bone dry the wood won't simply
decide to not swell up as the more humid weather rolls around. It
will still expand and the filler will crumble and/or the wood will
crush as the wood expands. When it shrinks back down the gap will be
pretty much back to where it started and/or you will have little bits
of filler being sucked up by the vacuum.

R

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> RicodJour wrote:
> > On May 6, 9:27 am, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> 1. Go to Home Depot or Lowes
> >> 2. Go outside to where the lumber pickup area is
> >> 3. Find the ball of beige/light brown twine that customers use to
> >> tie down stuff
> >> 4. Cut off what you need
> >>
> >> If the twine is very light -almost white - , ignore it, it is sisal,
> >> and go inside to buy the jute unless you like the sisal color; I'd
> >> think it would work for packing too.
> >
> > I wish they'd go back to the jute. Around here the home centers
> > haven't had anything but poly twine in years. Too much plastic - it
> > doesn't get recycled and it won't biodegrade.
>
> Yeah, I hate that too. Unfortunately, we live in the Age of Plastic.
>
> A while back I wanted a spool of marline (tarred hemp) so I hied myself off
> to the marine store. All they had was some sort of twine - might have been
> plastic, might have been cotton, don't recall - smeared with beeswax; had to
> go online to get real marline.

As far as tying things down goes, I got a package of four ratchet tie
downs a while back that also double as strap clamps, and work better
than anything that I can do with twine.

"Robert Allison" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 5/5/2011 8:43 AM, RicodJour wrote:
>> On May 5, 9:01 am, Sonny<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> I would cut red oak to insert into those gaps. That size piece
>>> shouldn't be so obvious or out of place, especially if you're
>>> going to
>>> stain it. It would be less likely to pop out, crumble, etc. as a
>>> filler may.
>>
>> An alternative to cutting is to use red oak edgebanding that
>> doesn't
>> have adhesive on it.
>>
>> There's also the question of climate and when and where those 3/64"
>> gaps appear. Wood strip floors are made up of relatively narrow
>> strips to allow for the seasonal movement of the wood. The gaps
>> are
>> necessary and unavoidable on an expanse of floor unless you have
>> complete control of the temperature and humidity throughout the
>> year.
>> If you fill the gaps while the wood is bone dry the wood won't
>> simply
>> decide to not swell up as the more humid weather rolls around. It
>> will still expand and the filler will crumble and/or the wood will
>> crush as the wood expands. When it shrinks back down the gap will
>> be
>> pretty much back to where it started and/or you will have little
>> bits
>> of filler being sucked up by the vacuum.
>>
>> R
>
> That is exactly the case. Rico is right, and, if you fill all those
> gaps and the floorboards do expand, they can buckle and lift. If
> you do fill, a filler that will crumble and fall out is your best
> protection against damaging your floor.
>
> --
> Robert Allison
> New Braunfels, TX

RA:

Good. Six eyes say the same thing. Make that eight,
counting here.

A thought came in on your race track project. It
may have value or not. If you decide to use
rollers as triggers to register carts passing, photocopiers
use a lot of fairly substantial steel versions that go in
size up to width of the processed paper. They get
scrapped all the time by repair men in a condition
that might be perfect for your application. And
they might get scrapped to you for the asking.

Thanks for the help.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

"RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:7da98360-26b3-4de3-98a2-0513fb5ed7bc@bl1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
On May 5, 9:01 am, Sonny <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I would cut red oak to insert into those gaps. That size piece
> shouldn't be so obvious or out of place, especially if you're going
> to
> stain it. It would be less likely to pop out, crumble, etc. as a
> filler may.

An alternative to cutting is to use red oak edgebanding that doesn't
have adhesive on it.

There's also the question of climate and when and where those 3/64"
gaps appear. Wood strip floors are made up of relatively narrow
strips to allow for the seasonal movement of the wood. The gaps are
necessary and unavoidable on an expanse of floor unless you have
complete control of the temperature and humidity throughout the year.
If you fill the gaps while the wood is bone dry the wood won't simply
decide to not swell up as the more humid weather rolls around. It
will still expand and the filler will crumble and/or the wood will
crush as the wood expands. When it shrinks back down the gap will be
pretty much back to where it started and/or you will have little bits
of filler being sucked up by the vacuum.

R

R:

For a little background, the original installation is 70
years old and the t&g was installed directly over
the floorboards without any vapor barrier (e.g.
tar paper) in between. Further, the stucco house is
on a raised foundation enclosing a ventilated, soil
crawlspace. The climate in Southern California doesn't
suffer from extreme seasonal variation, though it is
not unfriendly to termites; most of the structural
damage encountered goes to their credit.

In all, the initial installation shows good craftsmanship,
not Sistine perfection.The noted end gaps may be a
measured departure from that or reflect individual piece
shrinkage which allowed the infiltration of grit that
additionally abraded and enlarged the gap.

If reality proves that some of the few remaining
problem strips display a curvature which makes for
spaces on both sides, I'll bite the billfold and replace.
Should an open space be uniform and to one side only
in an obscure spot, I'll do trials on piece inserts...or,
again, put a new piece in.

As an aside, I've done the countersunk screw
placements and plug coverage before as part of a
solution to address floor squeaks in the past. It is
charmed when combined with blocking from below.
You also get a decorative effect, if you are willing
to add other plugs (with or without screws as
appropriate) for arty balance. Using a drill guide
stand to assure perpendicularity works and once
you get the hang of the operation it picks up speed.

Thanks for the help.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

You're not likely to have as severe expansion/contraction issues, if
any, as the gaps are on the ends of the boards. Boards expand and
contract across the face of boards, not so much along the length of
boards. 3/16" isn't much at all.

Another alternative is to dye some jute rope/twine and pack it into
the gaps. Jute rope/twine is stainable, accepts a finish,
compressable..... and it will prevent dirt from getting into the gap,
as opposed to if the gaps were left open. If the rope/twine eases
out, later, just press it back in. If this approach would fail beyond
your preference, you could always resort to filling the gaps with wood
or filler, later, ie. nothing lost in trying the rope. Having to
refinishing these spots, later, if need be, would amount to a touch-up
job, and not compromise your present refinishing (of the whole), now.

Sonny

>
> > Before I scurry around the world, do you
> > have any idea what kind of metropolitan
> > store would have jute? Is it sold under any
> > brand names that I might walk by unknowing?
>
> > BTW, when I see your name that great song
> > that borrowed it runs between the ears a bit.
>
> > Regards,
>
> > Edward Hennessey
>

Jute is the same as burlap, the old style hay baling twine, old style
(brown) rope, i.e., not synthetic. It's still common at the box
stores, hardware stores, farmer's co-ops, etc. Chair caning supply
outlets have it and similar reed/vegetive cording, as well....
seagrass, sisal, cotton, raffia. Any of these will work for small
spaces/gaps. Jute cording/twine/rope is the cheapest and most readily
available.

Sonny

> I've read about the rope infill, but I've never done it or even seen
> it up close. =A0How well does it blend in to the floor? =A0Does it end up
> being a 'feature' strip thing, where you really would notice if every
> gap didn't have the rope infill, or can you just use it here and
> there?
>
> R

I've packed several floor spacings. There is a "line", but it is not
out-of-place looking. Jute is vegetive, so it's basically similar to
wood, as for as staining. It absorbs more finish, so it's good to
build/layer the packing as close to the floor surface as possible.
Prior to staining or installing, for the fibers that stick out from
the rope/twine, burn them off. For long runs, tack it down with
brads or finishing nails, counter sunk. Nailing also helps flatten
the top of the cord, if somewhat large in diameter.

My brother's exgirlfriend has a wide plank floor and someone put some
kind of mortar between the planks... half inch gaps in many places.
Looked like crap and it was chipping out. I recommended she have jute
rope installed. I'll have to call Cyndi and ask if she ever did have
the mortar replaced. I'll go take a pic, if so.

My brother has some exterior columns, mated to/adjacent to the
exterior wall framing and stucco exterior surface, that we packed this
way, but the final packing was backer rods, as they are more weather
resistant. I'll do an inspection next time I go, maybe have some pics
available.

In the meantime, I can possibly find some spots in my shop, that needs
chinking, and do a demo, w/pics. Some of the flooring is 2" wide oak.

An oldtimer once told me that mixing linseed oil and sawdust makes for
good filler, especially for floors that are really distressed and has
many open spaces/cracks. That sounds reasonable, maybe, but I would
be leery of the spontaneous combustion of linseed oil in that kind of
application.... depends on the bulk (in one spot) needing to be
applied (?). I've never tried this technique.

Sonny

On May 6, 4:35=A0am, "Edward Hennessey" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> "Sonny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:ee06fda8-979a-4133-9168-eb371f57a6ab@d28g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > I've read about the rope infill, but I've never done it or even seen
> > it up close. How well does it blend in to the floor? Does it end up
> > being a 'feature' strip thing, where you really would notice if
> > every
> > gap didn't have the rope infill, or can you just use it here and
> > there?
>
> > R
>
> I've packed several floor spacings. =A0There is a "line", but it is not
> out-of-place looking. =A0Jute is vegetive, so it's basically similar to
> wood, as for as staining. =A0It absorbs more finish, so it's good to
> build/layer the packing as close to the floor surface as possible.
> Prior to staining or installing, for the fibers that stick out from
> the rope/twine, burn them off. =A0 For long runs, tack it down with
> brads or finishing nails, counter sunk. =A0Nailing also helps flatten
> the top of the cord, if somewhat large in diameter.
>
> My brother's exgirlfriend has a wide plank floor and someone put some
> kind of mortar between the planks... half inch gaps in many places.
> Looked like crap and it was chipping out. =A0I recommended she have jute
> rope installed. =A0I'll have to call Cyndi and ask if she ever did have
> the mortar replaced. =A0I'll go take a pic, if so.
>
> My brother has some exterior columns, mated to/adjacent to the
> exterior wall framing and stucco exterior surface, that we packed this
> way, but the final packing was backer rods, as they are more weather
> resistant. =A0I'll do an inspection next time I go, maybe have some pics
> available.
>
> In the meantime, I can possibly find some spots in my shop, that needs
> chinking, and do a demo, w/pics. =A0Some of the flooring is 2" wide oak.
>
> An oldtimer once told me that mixing linseed oil and sawdust makes for
> good filler, especially for floors that are really distressed and has
> many open spaces/cracks. =A0That sounds reasonable, maybe, but I would
> be leery of the spontaneous combustion of linseed oil in that kind of
> application.... depends on the bulk (in one spot) needing to be
> applied (?). =A0I've never tried this technique.
>
> S:
>
> Before I scurry around the world, do you
> have any idea what kind of metropolitan
> store would have jute? Is it sold under any
> brand names that I might walk by unknowing?
>
> BTW, when I see your name that great song
> that borrowed it runs between the ears a bit.
>
> Regards,
>
> Edward Hennessey

Hi

In the UK we use an elastic floorboard filler off a reel which has a
round profile and expands and contracts with the floor. It is 'shadow
coloured' and cannot be seen once fitted. It comes on 40m rolls
together with an applicator. No glue required. Nice side effect: The
floorboards look untampered and very natural.

Harry

"Sonny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:ee06fda8-979a-4133-9168-eb371f57a6ab@d28g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
> I've read about the rope infill, but I've never done it or even seen
> it up close. How well does it blend in to the floor? Does it end up
> being a 'feature' strip thing, where you really would notice if
> every
> gap didn't have the rope infill, or can you just use it here and
> there?
>
> R

I've packed several floor spacings. There is a "line", but it is not
out-of-place looking. Jute is vegetive, so it's basically similar to
wood, as for as staining. It absorbs more finish, so it's good to
build/layer the packing as close to the floor surface as possible.
Prior to staining or installing, for the fibers that stick out from
the rope/twine, burn them off. For long runs, tack it down with
brads or finishing nails, counter sunk. Nailing also helps flatten
the top of the cord, if somewhat large in diameter.

My brother's exgirlfriend has a wide plank floor and someone put some
kind of mortar between the planks... half inch gaps in many places.
Looked like crap and it was chipping out. I recommended she have jute
rope installed. I'll have to call Cyndi and ask if she ever did have
the mortar replaced. I'll go take a pic, if so.

My brother has some exterior columns, mated to/adjacent to the
exterior wall framing and stucco exterior surface, that we packed this
way, but the final packing was backer rods, as they are more weather
resistant. I'll do an inspection next time I go, maybe have some pics
available.

In the meantime, I can possibly find some spots in my shop, that needs
chinking, and do a demo, w/pics. Some of the flooring is 2" wide oak.

An oldtimer once told me that mixing linseed oil and sawdust makes for
good filler, especially for floors that are really distressed and has
many open spaces/cracks. That sounds reasonable, maybe, but I would
be leery of the spontaneous combustion of linseed oil in that kind of
application.... depends on the bulk (in one spot) needing to be
applied (?). I've never tried this technique.

S:

Before I scurry around the world, do you
have any idea what kind of metropolitan
store would have jute? Is it sold under any
brand names that I might walk by unknowing?

BTW, when I see your name that great song
that borrowed it runs between the ears a bit.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey